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Washington 360 - Something interesting for next summer.


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https://nwmaritime.org/wa360/

We are signing up when it opens on January 15th.  I think it is a fantastic concept, especially given both Van Isle 360 and R2AK have been cancelled.  Super excited to have something interesting and different to look forward to next Summer.  

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I think the route MUST include Spokane and Walla Walla if you're going to call it a 360. Thus a fast tow vehicle and quick loading/unloading from trailer would start to matter more.

Maybe YOU can volunteer next time.

The ideal boat for this thing is definitely of the Swiss lake racer variety. As in ultra-light over-canvassed catamaran.  And sure, a fast monohull might stay in contact with a Farrier trimaran in the

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Pulling from the other thread that has already transitioned to the WA360...

Using Navionics I come up with just over 300nm, straight line, through the water, like a human powered vessel might go.  

FWIW, Dark Star did the Salish 200 which is very similar without the Tacoma to Olympia part and more of a straight line just to Patos, without the diversions in the WA360, in 36 hours.  The Salish 200 was generally very windy, by any standard, nevermind summer standards.  There is no way they could have done the 300nm in 48 hours, even on that windy year.  I bet it will take longer than 72 hours or the first running. 

I also don't see that catamarans and trimarans will have nearly the advantage over fast monohulls for this course and likely wind speed.  We've seen repeatedly that fast 35-45' monohulls can keep up with the faster trimarans in the Northern Century, which has the same type of challenges with light air and adverse currents.

i'm thinking there will be over 100 boats entered.  With all the other distance races and adventures cancelled next summer, the convenient start location, and the simplified boat requirements this will draw a crowd.  

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The ideal boat for this thing is definitely of the Swiss lake racer variety. As in ultra-light over-canvassed catamaran.  And sure, a fast monohull might stay in contact with a Farrier trimaran in the light stuff, but when we did the Northern Century on the Marstrom M32 it was so light that we were the only boat that could finish the 100nm within the time limit.  No monohulls stayed in contact for more than the first 15min.  I don't have the M32 anymore, but we raced the boat in a wide range of conditions and only other fast cats like the SL33 or the Extreme40 were somewhat competitive on a boat-for-boat basis.  I'd take a 32-45' ultra-light catamaran racing 3-up over a TP52 for this race.

2121209436_NorthernCentury2015.jpg.7126b07085302ebeb7e9152862a448ce.jpg

 

WA360 is intriguing.  Especially after a year of virtually no racing for me.  On the other hand, getting down to Olympia looks potentially brutal:

1769570513_SwantownMarinaJune2020.thumb.JPG.55b7ce7a8318bd313e1acfe72d7ec0d9.JPG

I can't decide if this looks like fun or hate mission.

 

 

 

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Well, with depths in the Swinomish Channel running at about 8'* or so and the current running in Deception Pass running at 5-7 knots around then, the Narrows only slightly less and the full "schools-out!" powerboat fleet out in force, anyone is invited to try to sail through those areas...just not on my boat.  

Hate mission.  Full on.  

(* Yes, I know the target depth is 12', and the Port of LaConner keeps dredging away.  Just try it.)

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38 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Well, with depths in the Swinomish Channel running at about 8'* or so and the current running in Deception Pass running at 5-7 knots around then, the Narrows only slightly less and the full "schools-out!" powerboat fleet out in force, anyone is invited to try to sail through those areas...just not on my boat.  

Hate mission.  Full on.  

(* Yes, I know the target depth is 12', and the Port of LaConner keeps dredging away.  Just try it.)

The currents are no more of a challenge than Seymour Narrows, right?  They are gates, requires some patience for good seamanship.  

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3 hours ago, RandyM81 said:

The ideal boat for this thing is definitely of the Swiss lake racer variety. As in ultra-light over-canvassed catamaran.  And sure, a fast monohull might stay in contact with a Farrier trimaran in the light stuff, but when we did the Northern Century on the Marstrom M32 it was so light that we were the only boat that could finish the 100nm within the time limit.  No monohulls stayed in contact for more than the first 15min.  I don't have the M32 anymore, but we raced the boat in a wide range of conditions and only other fast cats like the SL33 or the Extreme40 were somewhat competitive on a boat-for-boat basis.  I'd take a 32-45' ultra-light catamaran racing 3-up over a TP52 for this race.

2121209436_NorthernCentury2015.jpg.7126b07085302ebeb7e9152862a448ce.jpg

 

WA360 is intriguing.  Especially after a year of virtually no racing for me.  On the other hand, getting down to Olympia looks potentially brutal:

1769570513_SwantownMarinaJune2020.thumb.JPG.55b7ce7a8318bd313e1acfe72d7ec0d9.JPG

I can't decide if this looks like fun or hate mission.

 

 

 

Potentially?  Ha!  Deadheads are an art form down there.....   I’m still shocked that Shelton isn’t on the itinerary, but it’s fun to check out.  Even Canoes go aground trying that one out...

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15 hours ago, Roleur said:

The currents are no more of a challenge than Seymour Narrows, right?  They are gates, requires some patience for good seamanship.  

Well, this is all my opinion, and not to get too far into the weeds (or kelp), but Deception Pass is 1/4 as wide as Seymour (300' vs .4 nm) and from the time you commit to going through until you're spit out, Deception is almost twice as long.  And LOTS busier.  I've sailed through both (and motored many times) and certainly in Seymour running with the current can be lumpy.  Wind against current is exciting.  But in Deception, running with the current, twice I've had whirlpools just grab a 36' boat and spin it 360° and toss it within a couple of feet of the rock wall of Pass I.  Then the ebb running over the shallows on the outside gets very square - a mini Nahwitti bar.  Of all the passes I've sailed through around here, including Deception, Active, Porlier, Gabriola, Dodge, Seymour, Nahwitti, The Narrows, Cattle and Yaculta, Deception is the one I'd never do again without the motor running.  Yet it can be a scenic joy ride in a powerboat.  

As for Swinomish, the problem really lies in the fact that the current direction is not predictable and it's 13 nm long from Strawberry Point to Cherry Point and 200' wide for a lot of it.  Just brutal stretch of rowing or cycling.  And it's really unpredictably shallow.  You certainly are't going to sail through there.  On my last boat, which drew 8.5 feet, we nudged the mud bottom 5 out of 6 times we went through there at theoretical "mid-tide" even after calling the harbormaster.  Slow learner, I guess, but the Port of LaConner cannot keep it dredged. 

So, yes, I think the currents/configuration are more of a challenge than Seymour for a non-motored race in anything other than an ocean kayak. 

If I was younger and stronger, a 2-person kayak or a longboat would be just about the right ride for the whole thing, actually. 

 

(BTW, I've even been on a 3/4 tonner when the owner went through Canoe Pass on the NORTH side of Deception on a full ebb.  As we approached, he swung the helm over that way as a joke (I guess) and we were caught in the current with no control.  I was very vocally not in favor and seriously holy fuckin' crap.  Do NOT ever even think about that. I still have no idea how we made it.)  

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8 minutes ago, Roleur said:

I’m not sure what I’m missing, but why not just wait for the beginning or end of the ebb?1

That should be the plan, but slack water lasts for about 20 minutes and you've got 2.5 miles to go.  In a  good kayak or longboat, no problem and you can always play the shore.  In a sailboat that bicycles or sculls at 2 knots?  Not my personal cup of tea.

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I like the adventurous spirit and style of the R2AK, and hence this seems like fun. It does sound a bit bland drifting around, and rowing a yacht.

Maybe I'll drag my Santa Cruz 27 up for it.

So, why isn't there an offshore race down the Oregon and Northern California coast? For the trailer sailors, it would be a f'n gas and the logistics would be easy as pie. 

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5 hours ago, grimoire said:

I like the adventurous spirit and style of the R2AK, and hence this seems like fun. It does sound a bit bland drifting around, and rowing a yacht.

Maybe I'll drag my Santa Cruz 27 up for it.

So, why isn't there an offshore race down the Oregon and Northern California coast? For the trailer sailors, it would be a f'n gas and the logistics would be easy as pie. 

I'm not sure trailer sailors would survive. It can get gnarly out there with not a lot of places to hide.

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1 hour ago, Veeger said:

I think that this could be a contender for the WA360  (okay, personally, I might do a different color...)

 

Isn't that a really just a buffed out International 110?   360 miles in that will give you a new appreciation for ergonomics!

Screen Shot 2020-12-29 at 11.00.39 AM.png

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On 12/27/2020 at 9:34 PM, Zonker said:

I think the route MUST include Spokane and Walla Walla if you're going to call it a 360. Thus a fast tow vehicle and quick loading/unloading from trailer would start to matter more.

image.thumb.png.f698fa38fa8562741685704f73c7f353.png

Well, you could come close... sort of a spiral shape.  One would have to factor in portage around the dams, upwind through the gorge, open ocean...Untitled.thumb.jpg.b81a4796c5cf116618b9cef2596d840d.jpg

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Isn't that a really just a buffed out International 110?   360 miles in that will give you a new appreciation for ergonomics!

Screen Shot 2020-12-29 at 11.00.39 AM.png

 

Well, yes,  it's similar but not a keel boat like the 110, so better for rowing on that sliding seat.  Any sail and oar powered craft will inflict max pain on this course.

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2 hours ago, toddster said:

Well, you could come close... sort of a spiral shape.  One would have to factor in portage around the dams, upwind through the gorge, open ocean...Untitled.thumb.jpg.b81a4796c5cf116618b9cef2596d840d.jpg

Now we're talkin'!  The ultimate Ski-to-Sea race!

 

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

Or call it close enough and don't worry about the inevitable pedantry.

~100 miles difference in a 360 mile race (or is it ~263 Nm.?) isn't quibbling.  Despite a certain "fuck you" attitude about rules, the race organizers will eventually have to clarify the marks to get anywhere close to 360 miles.

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1 hour ago, Veeger said:

Any sail and oar powered craft will inflict max pain on this course.

Remember the dude who was making good progress on the last R2K with a SUP until he got a knee injury?  This seems like an opportunity for a nutter like him.  

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3 hours ago, toddster said:

Well, you could come close... sort of a spiral shape.  One would have to factor in portage around the dams, upwind through the gorge, open ocean...Untitled.thumb.jpg.b81a4796c5cf116618b9cef2596d840d.jpg

You're going to have to skip that luncheon engagement in Sooke.

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4 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

~100 miles difference in a 360 mile race (or is it ~263 Nm.?) isn't quibbling.  Despite a certain "fuck you" attitude about rules, the race organizers will eventually have to clarify the marks to get anywhere close to 360 miles.

Er .  . .  I think it's 360 degrees -- as in, sort of a circle?

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Back in the 70’s and 80’s we had “Round The Sound”. I think is was limited to boats 30’ and under.  Start of Shillshole, go North to protection island (?) then down around. As Jon and back to Shillshole. I am sure others on here remember the course better than I do. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Moab said:

Back in the 70’s and 80’s we had “Round The Sound”. I think is was limited to boats 30’ and under.  Start of Shillshole, go North to protection island (?) then down around. As Jon and back to Shillshole. I am sure others on here remember the course better than I do. 

You beat me to it.  Make this the theme song with a new set of sailing lyrics.

 

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4 hours ago, Varan said:

None of you get it... let me give you a hint:

w.png.2a79567fbe0e8335ed0d49293b7c101e.png

More like 360/206/360?  989? 26?  8?  

I had clients who were heavy into numerology.  It made writing checks complicated....
 

 

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Cool concept, but here's how I see it playing out:

There will be a mix of racing sleds and cruising slugs, and everything in between. Some will actually pay the $550 entry fee, but many will just tag along. The racing sleds will complete in a couple days, but the cruisers will be a different story. Many of them will tire of the monotony and drop out along the way. Others will stop at every port for a beer, a hot meal, and a calm night in a slip,  and take the full 2 weeks to get around. In the end, it will be a mish mash of who entered, who really raced, who really finished, who did the whole course without cheating etc.

But ... still a cool concept. Hope I'm wrong and it goes well.

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11 hours ago, Mr Moab said:

Back in the 70’s and 80’s we had “Round The Sound”. I think is was limited to boats 30’ and under.  Start of Shillshole, go North to protection island (?) then down around. As Jon and back to Shillshole. I am sure others on here remember the course better than I do. 

The "Round the Sound" race course, as I recall it, was Shilshole, Point Hudson, Point Robinson, Hat Island, Shilshole.  I don't recall Protection or Smith Island as part of the course.  It was an almost guaranteed 36-hour drifter.   I recall doing it on a Cal-34, Cal-40 and on a Peterson 40, so bigger than 30'ers.

The other race from back in the day was "The Great Equalizer" where the fleet was grouped in narrow rating bands and raced boat for boat.  That course was also a big loop around Puget Sound.  Much disgruntlement about fleet breaks, but the fleet was much bigger then so some reasonable groupings were possible.  

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43 minutes ago, wristwister said:

Cool concept, but here's how I see it playing out:

There will be a mix of racing sleds and cruising slugs, and everything in between. Some will actually pay the $550 entry fee, but many will just tag along. The racing sleds will complete in a couple days, but the cruisers will be a different story. Many of them will tire of the monotony and drop out along the way. Others will stop at every port for a beer, a hot meal, and a calm night in a slip,  and take the full 2 weeks to get around. In the end, it will be a mish mash of who entered, who really raced, who really finished, who did the whole course without cheating etc.

But ... still a cool concept. Hope I'm wrong and it goes well.

I don't think you're wrong but that doesn't mean it won't go well. Whatever gets people out on the water having a good time while still generating some support for the organizers is a win in my book. 

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11 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

The "Round the Sound" race course, as I recall it, was Shilshole, Point Hudson, Point Robinson, Hat Island, Shilshole.  I don't recall Protection or Smith Island as part of the course.  It was an almost guaranteed 36-hour drifter.   I recall doing it on a Cal-34, Cal-40 and on a Peterson 40, so bigger than 30'ers.

The other race from back in the day was "The Great Equalizer" where the fleet was grouped in narrow rating bands and raced boat for boat.  That course was also a big loop around Puget Sound.  Much disgruntlement about fleet breaks, but the fleet was much bigger then so some reasonable groupings were possible.  

Are you maybe referring to the Great Equalizer? That sounds more like that course. RTS definitely went around Vashon. I cant recall exactly what the northern turning mark was. RTS was 30' and under only- Olson 30's were the "fast boat" of the course. 

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8 minutes ago, Mr Moab said:

Are you maybe referring to the Great Equalizer? That sounds more like that course. RTS definitely went around Vashon. I cant recall exactly what the northern turning mark was. RTS was 30' and under only- Olson 30's were the "fast boat" of the course. 

Could be.  Many years, many rum drinks and many races ago.

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22 hours ago, toddster said:

Well, you could come close... sort of a spiral shape.  One would have to factor in portage around the dams, upwind through the gorge, open ocean...Untitled.thumb.jpg.b81a4796c5cf116618b9cef2596d840d.jpg

Well, you could start in Stehekin, go over the falls to the Columbia, but that would favor kayaks.... although a Melges 32 would be spectacular!

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On 12/27/2020 at 9:34 PM, Zonker said:

I think the route MUST include Spokane and Walla Walla if you're going to call it a 360. Thus a fast tow vehicle and quick loading/unloading from trailer would start to matter more.

image.thumb.png.f698fa38fa8562741685704f73c7f353.png

No engines so make them manually portage the vessel. Should have interesting effects on both the vessel selection and competitor selection. I think a canoe with two crew (cyclists? triathletes?) rigged to tow behind a tandem bicycle might do the trick.

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40 minutes ago, Thread Killer said:

I get 351 miles, depending upon where the actual checkpoints are

Aye, there's the rub.  We discussed this in another thread, including arguments about where one has to be to "wave" to the towns mentioned.  As outlined so far, it's ambiguous.  Presumably, they will clear it up at some point.

Quote

Rules? Rules are for cowards and accountants.

360 statute miles is 313 Nm. and someone already mentioned that R2AK is measured in statute miles.  (750 statute miles is 652 Nm.)

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1 hour ago, Lost Cat said:

Someone asked if there are deadheads in South Puget Sound:

LochNarrowsMonster.jpg

That is not a deadhead. Deadheads are vertical submerged or partially submerged logs. Even so,  it's not something you want to hit going 20 knots.

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8 hours ago, Mr Moab said:

Are you maybe referring to the Great Equalizer? That sounds more like that course. RTS definitely went around Vashon. I cant recall exactly what the northern turning mark was. RTS was 30' and under only- Olson 30's were the "fast boat" of the course. 

RTS started at Shilshole on a Friday night, around Vashon Island, PT Hudson buoy, Hat Island and finished at Shilshole. Seemed like 135 nm. I did it on a Cal T2 in 1977. It was windy almost the entire time. We finished very early Sunday morning.

Great Equalizer seemed to stay mostly within Puget Sound on multiple laps between Point no Point and Pt Robinson. But remember once going to PT Hudson and another time drifting around Hat Island.

Good times!

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2 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

Oh, yah, no problem in the straits or w/ 25 knot NW blowing into Admiralty Inlet w/ a big ebb tide.

Well, a strong NW’ly to the finish could be good...  However, don’t put yer dentures in as she might pound a bit in short seas...(what with a nearly flat bottom and the overhang...). On the other hand, my money is on a rowing pain fest!

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14 hours ago, Great White said:

RTS started at Shilshole on a Friday night, around Vashon Island, PT Hudson buoy, Hat Island and finished at Shilshole. Seemed like 135 nm. I did it on a Cal T2 in 1977. It was windy almost the entire time. We finished very early Sunday morning.

Great Equalizer seemed to stay mostly within Puget Sound on multiple laps between Point no Point and Pt Robinson. But remember once going to PT Hudson and another time drifting around Hat Island.

Good times!

Yeah, three laps of the sound on the GE. I remember drifting off Shilshole one time, about 1am, and seeing the sign at Rays lopping through its cycle- R- A - Y- S- RAYS. Knowing I coulda been in there having a drink and a good time but instead I was sitting to leeward in the drizzle trying to keep the drifter full. Good times indeed! (they really were)  

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3 hours ago, Mr Moab said:

Yeah, three laps of the sound on the GE. I remember drifting off Shilshole one time, about 1am, and seeing the sign at Rays lopping through its cycle- R- A - Y- S- RAYS. Knowing I coulda been in there having a drink and a good time but instead I was sitting to leeward in the drizzle trying to keep the drifter full. Good times indeed! (they really were)  

I may have been sailing side by side with you.  It was still better than Swiftsure Bank at 3:00 a.m.

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I once sat at the tiller under a drooping boom (back in that day) in a rainstorm off the Bank with the water running off the main and a steady torrent landing on my hood and in front my face.  At 3:00 a.m.  After an hour or more of sitting there, getting splashed continuously, I realized I could shift my position.  But I could kind of see the genoa from where I was, even though there was no wind.  And the main would empty and fill with a bang right above my head.  Then the torrent would start all over again.  

So I just sat there. 

For another hour.  

I took my nephew on Swiftsure once.  He has spent time in Central European war zones and in odd, back-woods parts of central Africa, northern Norway in the winter and marginally inhabited Indonesian islands.  He still thinks I'm nuts.

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Just now, Left Shift said:

Why do people think any of the TP-52s are going to do this thing?  Does someone know of one that has expressed any interest?

Well, isn’t the class dead?  :huh:  I read that somewhere....:rolleyes:.....

Winning this race might help resale! Wasn’t that the raison d’etre for Wasabi (was it?) entering the R2AK?

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6 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Why do people think any of the TP-52s are going to do this thing?  Does someone know of one that has expressed any interest?

Yeah, lots of reasons why that doesn’t seem likely.  I suspect the real sailboat contenders, if they enter, will be Dark Star, Secret Squirrel, maybe Ocelot, and then a few light multis like Dragon.  

We have a great light air boat, really suited to this type of course, but we don’t plan to put much of any effort into the human propulsion aspect, so likely will not be contenders. 

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5 minutes ago, Amati said:

Well, isn’t the class dead?  :huh:  I read that somewhere....:rolleyes:.....

Winning this race might help resale! Wasn’t that the raison d’etre for Wasabi (was it?) entering the R2AK?

4 out of the 5 TP-52s around here did Van Isle 360 in 2019.  I think they are all enjoying the fast, close racing.  One of those TPs is doing Transpac this year, so will likely be south by June.  I don’t see the others interested in this sort of thing.  

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2 hours ago, Rob Hodge said:

So I did a look over of the WA360, going over it step by step. 

 

Have a look: 

http://www.h2ak.com/?p=957

 

Maybe around Squaxin Island on the way back north?

Dana is a bit more challenging than you think.  Even with wind.  

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20 minutes ago, Amati said:

Maybe around Squaxin Island on the way back north?

Dana is a bit more challenging than you think.  Even with wind.  

Arounf Squaxin  Island on the way back north to where?  The bustling paradise of Allyn?

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47 minutes ago, Amati said:

Well, isn’t the class dead?  :huh:  I read that somewhere....:rolleyes:.....

Winning this race might help resale! Wasn’t that the raison d’etre for Wasabi (was it?) entering the R2AK?

It's not dead, it's just resting. 

Been pretty well Covid-ized I suspect, given the crew size requirements.  

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4 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Arounf Squaxin  Island on the way back north to where?  The bustling paradise of Allyn?

Hey!  My brother lived in Allyn 45 years ago with his wife and 2 OK dinghies!  Until they couldn’t take it anymore.  And moved to Shelton.  
 

Arounf Squaxin on the way back to Tacoma!  ;) Has anyone ever sailed Ticonderoga WITH the wind?  And what about ferries?  S Bainbridge should be really fun!  N Bainbridge too, for that matter!  We lost the gas cap (They sink when the little chain breaks, and they fall in the water) off the Honda once on the U20 right under the bridge, and it wouldn’t run, so we sailed through.  Large motorboats don’t quite know what to do with sailboats tacking under the bridge.  Well, they know how to use channel 16, blow their horns, and panic.  Especially at low tide.  We waved back!  It was cool, in a way....  love the mud banks....

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5 hours ago, Roleur said:

Yeah, lots of reasons why that doesn’t seem likely.  I suspect the real sailboat contenders, if they enter, will be Dark Star, Secret Squirrel, maybe Ocelot, and then a few light multis like Dragon.  

We have a great light air boat, really suited to this type of course, but we don’t plan to put much of any effort into the human propulsion aspect, so likely will not be contenders. 

I think you might try sailing through Deception first....  if you have the current with you, I think you could it, but could you do it without at least oars?  We did it once (never again) with the tide going towards Rosario, in the U20,  the tide generated wind fizzled, and we went under the bridge sideways. Tiller steering rocks! We used the paddle!  And then there was that big flesh colored sight seeing cat that came through with the high powered fishing boats doing their things, on the Rosario side....  people on the bridge were cheering!  Not the last time we’ve heard that-  I think people like to stand on the bridge and cheer on sailboats motoring or not.  Well, we’ve done it too...  The park float is fun to hang out at, waiting for the tide to turn.  But that’s headed out, not in....  or is that in & not out?  Have to look at the book.....

We were once on a Victoria Princess that went up the Slough in the 90’s on a high high tide.  She drew 8 feet.  I had no idea a boat that wide would even fit.  And the trawler we met along the way didn’t run aground trying to get out of the way.  We waved!  :)

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On 12/30/2020 at 2:36 PM, jdazey said:

That is not a deadhead. Deadheads are vertical submerged or partially submerged logs. Even so,  it's not something you want to hit going 20 knots.

Are you sure that’s not a whaling canoe? ;)

And what is the proper name for logs stuck in the mud at a 45 degree angle, completely underwater?  Other than ‘oh shit, what the fuck was that?’

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11 hours ago, Amati said:

Hey!  My brother lived in Allyn 45 years ago with his wife and 2 OK dinghies!  Until they couldn’t take it anymore.  And moved to Shelton.  
 

Arounf Squaxin on the way back to Tacoma!  ;) Has anyone ever sailed Ticonderoga WITH the wind?  And what about ferries?  S Bainbridge should be really fun!  N Bainbridge too, for that matter!  We lost the gas cap (They sink when the little chain breaks, and they fall in the water) off the Honda once on the U20 right under the bridge, and it wouldn’t run, so we sailed through.  Large motorboats don’t quite know what to do with sailboats tacking under the bridge.  Well, they know how to use channel 16, blow their horns, and panic.  Especially at low tide.  We waved back!  It was cool, in a way....  love the mud banks....

I thought I'd been everywhere on the Salish, but where is Ticonderoga?   (The only time I ever sailed on Ticonderoga is was on a reach, out and back..  We never really sailed WITH the wind that day.)

Another reason for the TPs not to do this thing:  They can't make it under the Agate Pass bridge.  

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

I thought I'd been everywhere on the Salish, but where is Ticonderoga?   (The only time I ever sailed on Ticonderoga is was on a reach, out and back..  We never really sailed WITH the wind that day.)

Another reason for the TPs not to do this thing:  They can't make it under the Agate Pass bridge.  

Ticonderoga passage.  It’s on one of our paper maps. (I think). IIRR, it’s on the inside of Whidby going North. Going by memory, since it’s too crappy right now to run down to the boat and check the charts.  Although maybe I should....

Another Grey day in paradise....

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

My issue is with the Marrowstone bridge.

I keep hearing stories about boats going under that- precise tide timing, weight in the boat, air draft, etc.  One guy made it under by a purported six inches- there’s another story running around that a mast made it underneath but not the Windex.

Boatie sports! :lol:
 

And why is it that every time we go under a bridge it looks like the mast isn’t going to make it?  Even the Narrows Bridge! :blink:

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22 minutes ago, Amati said:

Ticonderoga passage.  It’s on one of our paper maps. (I think). IIRR, it’s on the inside of Whidby going North. Going by memory, since it’s too crappy right now to run down to the boat and check the charts.  Although maybe I should....

Another Grey day in paradise....

Saratoga Passage?

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11 minutes ago, Amati said:

I keep hearing stories about boats going under that- precise tide timing, weight in the boat, air draft, etc.  One guy made it under by a purported six inches- there’s another story running around that a mast made it underneath but not the Windex.

Boatie sports! :lol:
 

And why is it that every time we go under a bridge it looks like the mast isn’t going to make it?  Even the Narrows Bridge! :blink:

There's no combination of tides and my boat weight that'll even get close, for which I'm thankful. The last thing I need is to be tempted to try it.

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6 minutes ago, See Level said:

Saratoga Passage?

Oops! Yes.  Relying on my memory has its ups and downs....:)  My bad.

So anyway, has anyone had the wind with them in (on? In? Now I’m rattled....not Simon Rattle, though!) SARATOGA passage?

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20 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Why do people think any of the TP-52s are going to do this thing?  Does someone know of one that has expressed any interest?

I doubt any will. I just made a quick call, jokingly asked if there was a old Masthead Genoa around from 2006/7 MEDCUPs which is the only way I would do it in a 52 (4.5 upwind in 2 knots of wind). That setup would be killer but I don't think any of the boats around have one anymore due to the PHRF penalty that came out in 2008 and I think that they have all removed the tracks for the MGs. The trip to Olympia will be a hate mission and I am sure there is a bridge issue somewhere. 

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4 hours ago, Left Shift said:

I thought I'd been everywhere on the Salish, but where is Ticonderoga?   (The only time I ever sailed on Ticonderoga is was on a reach, out and back..  We never really sailed WITH the wind that day.)

Another reason for the TPs not to do this thing:  They can't make it under the Agate Pass bridge.  

Is Agate Pass required?  I haven't seen anything that suggests west of Bainbridge is required, but it might be to be consistent with traveling along the edge of the course area.  That would imply that going north and west of Stuart was required too.

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1 hour ago, Roleur said:

Is Agate Pass required?  I haven't seen anything that suggests west of Bainbridge is required, but it might be to be consistent with traveling along the edge of the course area.  That would imply that going north and west of Stuart was required too.

Who was it who thought the race committee might throw in a wrinkle? The shipping lane does get pretty close to Bainbridge....  Amati can get under the Agate bridge so you should be ok, if it comes to that. The worst part about west of Bainbridge is how the island can heat up a NE wind going over it.  Perfectly nice steady breeze West of the island, and gnarly on the east side.... but the water is smoother, and the breeze usually gets smoother once you get into Agate, so short tacking isn’t a fight.

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7 hours ago, IStream said:

My issue is with the Marrowstone bridge.

The charts show it has 58 vert clearance. It always makes me nervous to go under it with my J35, but never had any problems. I did hear of a report from a owner of a 40 ft C&C that his masthead antenna hid the bridge once.

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2 hours ago, Amati said:

Who was it who thought the race committee might throw in a wrinkle? The shipping lane does get pretty close to Bainbridge....  Amati can get under the Agate bridge so you should be ok, if it comes to that. The worst part about west of Bainbridge is how the island can heat up a NE wind going over it.  Perfectly nice steady breeze West of the island, and gnarly on the east side.... but the water is smoother, and the breeze usually gets smoother once you get into Agate, so short tacking isn’t a fight.

I have not seen anything that makes Agate Pass part of the course. The bridge vert clearance is 75 ft. I have lived and sailed in Kitsap County west of Bainbridge Island most of my life. Sailing thru Agate Pass and Rich Pass is not very difficult. We race thru those passes regurarly. Just need to know the currents and hope you have enough wind. The winds west of Bainbridge Island are notoriously fickle. The only reason I can see to go that way could be for small boats to avoid more adverse conditions in the main part of the sound. If I was to race this race, I would consider going west of Bainbridge Island just so I could moor at the Illahee State Park dock and walk up the hill to my house for a pit stop.

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Funny, I'm always vexed by the winds on the east side of Agate passage south of Indianola. It can be blowing like stink from the north or south in the main body of the sound and it seems to vary between fickle and weak or dead in there.

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16 hours ago, Great White said:

I have not seen anything that makes Agate Pass part of the course. The bridge vert clearance is 75 ft. I have lived and sailed in Kitsap County west of Bainbridge Island most of my life. Sailing thru Agate Pass and Rich Pass is not very difficult. We race thru those passes regurarly. Just need to know the currents and hope you have enough wind. The winds west of Bainbridge Island are notoriously fickle. The only reason I can see to go that way could be for small boats to avoid more adverse conditions in the main part of the sound. If I was to race this race, I would consider going west of Bainbridge Island just so I could moor at the Illahee State Park dock and walk up the hill to my house for a pit stop.

I got it backwards- nice steady breeze e of Bainbridge, fickle w.  When we lived in Seattle, going around Bainbridge was one of our favorite day sails. 
 

The chance to stop by during the race close to the house would be cool- San Juan Island here.  They do have that rule that what is available to you is available to everybody though.....^_^... does that apply to homes? :rolleyes:

hope we beat COVID soon....day sailing to a favorite eatery is fun... imagine the local business opportunities with this race! 

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