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15 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

I am about to search on google, but would like to see the pros and cons of an electric bike versus electric moped?   Do they even make electric slo-peds?

EDIT:  Well that was easy!!

https://www.amfam.com/resources/articles/on-the-road/electronic-bikes-vs-mopeds

15 years ago a guy I worked with bought a new electric scooter - looked like a Vespa.

It cost $800 and used 2 motorcycle batteries.It was very cool for in-city commuting.

It also fell under bicycle road rules so you could ride in bike lanes, on the sidewalk, ignore all signage like stop signs etc, just like bike riders.

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R60/2. Classically beautiful, elegant and sporty

the beak...no manufacturer can make a bike of any genre without that fucking beak...fuck they're ugly.  sorry man, i'm sure they are great bikes but christ i hate the beaks.

That is a 2008 Moto Guzzi Sport 1200.  A development of the Breva 1100 platform,  and the basis for the Norge,  which is what I was looking at initially - to replace my aging (and excellent) Yamaha FJ

Posted Images

10 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

15 years ago a guy I worked with bought a new electric scooter - looked like a Vespa.

It cost $800 and used 2 motorcycle batteries.It was very cool for in-city commuting.

It also fell under bicycle road rules so you could ride in bike lanes, on the sidewalk, ignore all signage like stop signs etc, just like bike riders.

 

That's basically what the linked article says but the fastest they go is 30 MPH, for high performance electric bikes, which is probably adequate for my intended use......

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That's about the same top speed as a 50CC Vespa,

Frankly, with those roller skate wheels I think 30 would be my limit anyway. :D

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On 1/10/2021 at 3:17 AM, shaggybaxter said:

This is my fourth Duke and even though she is kinda ugly I love it to bits. I have a habit of picking part-sports and part-tourer in my boats, cars and bikes.  

Still a dry clutch, no ABS but I pulled off the stock cans for the obligatory carbon pipes (Ducatis V-twins were born for carbon pipes)

Fun through the mountains and you can get off at the end of the long day not crying in pain. 

IMG_031777.thumb.jpg.ede09c7d31974444aff8f8728c08d4d4.jpg

I put the Termignoni on my Duc 1098 after about 500miles.  Once I did, it was a different bike.  The revs made more sense and the shifts made more sense.  It was odd, like you need to do the exhaust but it made the bike so much better. 

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11 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That's about the same top speed as a 50CC Vespa,

Frankly, with those roller skate wheels I think 30 would be my limit anyway. :D

 

I understand from some friends who own Mopeds, that one can tune a scooter to have a lot more HP than a 50CC should put out.....

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Well, a little;

The world record was officially certified at a speed of 91.539 mph / 147.317 km/h! On August 13, Arnaud broke his own record at the return record run in the APS /G 50cc category; his time was almost identical to his qualifying time: 96.233 mph / 154.872 km/h.Aug 20, 2018
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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

This can't be real???

 

image.thumb.png.5ea30ac8d0c819cafce1a74e38862930.png

It is some sort of scam.  If you search for r3 high speed electric motorcycle you can pull up identical models for 4 times the price.  

When dealing with Chinese suppliers it is always verify and then maybe trust.

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2 minutes ago, peragrin said:

It is some sort of scam.  If you search for r3 high speed electric motorcycle you can pull up identical models for 4 times the price.  

When dealing with Chinese suppliers it is always verify and then maybe trust.

 

I figured that, but why does it have a ginormous "gas tank", if it's an electric motorcycle???

 

EDIT: So the Chinese have replaced Nigerians as the biggest scammers on the internet???

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16 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I figured that, but why does it have a ginormous "gas tank", if it's an electric motorcycle???

 

EDIT: So the Chinese have replaced Nigerians as the biggest scammers on the internet???

They did that a decade ago.  Mostly they scam their own people though a few more adventurous kinds go for bigger audenices. 

The best are ones that open subsidiaries in lightly regulated states.  That way they can avoid being called a scam legally.  

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2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

One of my Mates just bought another Ducati, and is stripping it down for track days.  I have to swing by his place and check it out.   A local guy, Rich Schlacter, was a successful, well known racer, back in the 70' or  80's.  When asked why he had 7 motorcycles, he replied with a straight face, "Because I don't have room for 8!"

 

Bonhams : The ex-Rich Schlachter, Kurt Lentz1979 Loudon AMA Superbike  winner,1975 Ducati 900 SS Superbike Prototype Frame no. DM750SS-075858  Engine no. 086231

 

Yes Schlacter was usually in the hunt and IIRC had quite a long career as a rider. Brings to mind "Old Blue" perhaps the most iconic racing Ducati ever...

See the source image

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

15 years ago a guy I worked with bought a new electric scooter - looked like a Vespa.

It cost $800 and used 2 motorcycle batteries.It was very cool for in-city commuting.

It also fell under bicycle road rules so you could ride in bike lanes, on the sidewalk, ignore all signage like stop signs etc, just like bike riders.

Not sure what it is in other states, or countries, but here it is illegal to ride a bicycle on sidewalks unless they are designated bike lanes.  Bicycles can be ticketed for not obeying traffic laws.  I once got a ticket for not coming to a full stop before making a right turn on a red light.  I did a "track stand" but wasn't going to argue with the cop.  A big bunch of us in a group ride got tickets for impeding traffic while doing 25+ in a 30 mph zone.  Those got dismissed as one of the guys in the group was a lawyer and successfully argued it.  

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1 hour ago, bridhb said:

Not sure what it is in other states, or countries, but here it is illegal to ride a bicycle on sidewalks unless they are designated bike lanes.  Bicycles can be ticketed for not obeying traffic laws.  I once got a ticket for not coming to a full stop before making a right turn on a red light.  I did a "track stand" but wasn't going to argue with the cop.  A big bunch of us in a group ride got tickets for impeding traffic while doing 25+ in a 30 mph zone.  Those got dismissed as one of the guys in the group was a lawyer and successfully argued it.  

Purple font.

Around here cyclists are very entitled. They ride anywhere they want and do anything they want and get filled with righteous indignation if anyone objects.

Rules of the road are for cars.

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My first roadbike was the mighty '76 Z900, I ended up owning three of them back to back. With the Honda 750 4, they were the only Jap bikes you could front up on at any biker rally and never get hassled. Was a great bike for days' long rides two up with the missus. 

  1976-Kawasaki-KZ900.jpg.a7f2c774383d0fe7e2b1e5764de5e220.jpg

I have to give props to Kawasaki, they released a modern retro model that embodies a fair bit of the original bike, example the gauges and headlight are near identical. Mind you, a Z9 that handles and brakes is kinda weird but great to see the manufacturers doing retro bikes, with Norton being a great example. Good to see.

50667267822_bd866ce3dd_b.thumb.jpg.fb356e154da98468b216937585516459.jpg

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15 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

My first roadbike was the mighty '76 Z900, I ended up owning three of them back to back. With the Honda 750 4, they were the only Jap bikes you could front up on at any biker rally and never get hassled. Was a great bike for days' long rides two up with the missus. 

  1976-Kawasaki-KZ900.jpg.a7f2c774383d0fe7e2b1e5764de5e220.jpg

I have to give props to Kawasaki, they released a modern retro model that embodies a fair bit of the original bike, example the gauges and headlight are near identical. Mind you, a Z9 that handles and brakes is kinda weird but great to see the manufacturers doing retro bikes, with Norton being a great example. Good to see.

 

Neighbor had one of these.  It was pretty but a bit of a heavyweight.

See the source image

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9 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Why does everyone have to copy the Harley engine config??

The honda was a watercooled v-twin with a crank arranged to mimic a 90 deg v-twin, so it isn't really a harley copy.  It makes a nice, narrow bike.  I had a couple of honda NT 650 hawks that used a development of the Ascot engine.  The bike was tiny between your legs and very fun to ride with upgraded suspension.  I raced one for many years but when the engine was pushed much above stock hp (stock was less than 50 if I remember correctly), the offset crank became a liability.  Falicon made a limited run of billet cranks that solved this but they cost more than what I had in the bike and one crazy guy bought them all up so no one else could have them (sort of, a few went to other crazy people).  Then the SV 650 came out, with a 90 deg v-twin, and made the hawks pretty much obsolete in the LW twins class.

The Ascots are a neat motorcycle but I am not fond of their use of a shaft drive on that type of bike.  Adds unnecessary complexity and power loss though all the turns it has to take to get to the rear wheel.

The 90 deg "V" or "L" twin is a very nice motor mechanically but it is difficult to package in a short wheel base.  Narrowing the "V" angle makes them easier to stuff in the frame but introduces issues in being an engine.

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The NT 650 Hawk.  Only sold in the USA for a couple of years.  They were too expensive for what they were, given you could get a Hurricane 600 for the same price.  They were deeply discounted after they were not imported anymore.  All the money was in the frame.  Aluminum beam frames were rare then.  Single sided swing arms were even more rare.  They had the "RC 31" designation from Honda.   Sort of a cult bike now.See the source image

 

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

Why does everyone have to copy the Harley engine config??

Back in 84 mile and half mile dirt oval racing was still pretty big, might still be.  But the pop-pop wosh-wosh of  a narrow angle V twin gave the best traction.  Two quick power pulses and then 540 some degrees of flywheel enrgy and 2 more quick power pulses...  Yamaha built weird offset cranks to replicate that with their verticle twins.  Look up XS650  277 degree crank.

Rephased XS650 Components - Hughs Hand Built

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5 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Why does everyone have to copy the Harley engine config??

Because it looks great.

That's the only reason I've ever been able to determine.

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6 hours ago, bridhb said:

The honda was a watercooled v-twin with a crank arranged to mimic a 90 deg v-twin, so it isn't really a harley copy.  It makes a nice, narrow bike.  I had a couple of honda NT 650 hawks that used a development of the Ascot engine.  The bike was tiny between your legs and very fun to ride with upgraded suspension.  I raced one for many years but when the engine was pushed much above stock hp (stock was less than 50 if I remember correctly), the offset crank became a liability.  Falicon made a limited run of billet cranks that solved this but they cost more than what I had in the bike and one crazy guy bought them all up so no one else could have them (sort of, a few went to other crazy people).  Then the SV 650 came out, with a 90 deg v-twin, and made the hawks pretty much obsolete in the LW twins class.

The Ascots are a neat motorcycle but I am not fond of their use of a shaft drive on that type of bike.  Adds unnecessary complexity and power loss though all the turns it has to take to get to the rear wheel.

The 90 deg "V" or "L" twin is a very nice motor mechanically but it is difficult to package in a short wheel base.  Narrowing the "V" angle makes them easier to stuff in the frame but introduces issues in being an engine.

The body position of those twins is excellent, but you pay for it with the odd torque curve compared to the inline engines. It's usually worth it though. And it doesn't take a lot of counterbalance to keep them fairly smooth.

The irony of course, is that when Harley does it with their big twins, they kind of ruin it, and those bikes end up nearly as wide as those BMWs with the pot-boilers (aka bus-catchers).

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19 minutes ago, mikewof said:

The body position of those twins is excellent, but you pay for it with the odd torque curve compared to the inline engines. It's usually worth it though. And it doesn't take a lot of counterbalance to keep them fairly smooth.

The irony of course, is that when Harley does it with their big twins, they kind of ruin it, and those bikes end up nearly as wide as those BMWs with the pot-boilers (aka bus-catchers).

What is odd about V twins torque curves?

See the source image

Ducuti 998 ^

See the source image

Honda NT650^

Presumably each above before and after some tuning or modification.

 

See the source image

Yamaha R1^  ???

Yamaha R1 dyno sheet - Bing images

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17 minutes ago, warbird said:

What is odd about V twins torque curves?

See the source image

Ducuti 998 ^

See the source image

Honda NT650^

Presumably each above before and after some tuning or modification.

 

See the source image

Yamaha R1^  ???

Yamaha R1 dyno sheet - Bing images

Just personal preference, just what I'm used to I guess.

There are four torque curves that feel natural to me ... an inline 6 truck engine, a V-12 car engine, an inline two-cylinder two-stroke Fuji, and a four-stroke one-cylinder.

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12 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Just personal preference, just what I'm used to I guess.

There are four torque curves that feel natural to me ... an inline 6 truck engine, a V-12 car engine, an inline two-cylinder two-stroke Fuji, and a four-stroke one-cylinder.

What if I found graphs of all and the were similar (2 stroke excepted)? The torque curve is a function of cam lift, duration and overlap (as well as the porting to support the air flow in higher flow situations).  My gas 4cyl. ford tractor has pretty much the same torque curve as a Mack 300 hp six. 

Makes me think of the honda GP 125 cc 6 cylinder from the 60s.  Power from 13000 rpm to 18000 rpm. :ph34r:

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People focus on HP but torque is what you want and also what most people are actually thinking about when they say "horsepower".

Torque is what shoves you back in the seat.

 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

People focus on HP but torque is what you want and also what most people are actually thinking about when they say "horsepower".

Torque is what shoves you back in the seat.

 

I don't think I ever redlined the 2 liter WRX, with 268 HP, and lots of torque.  The torque topped out around 5 or 6,000, so no point in taking it higher.   The 2017 Beamer 430I that replaced it with, makes nearly the same power with a 2 liter, 4 cylinder with 24 valves, and gets damn good gas mileage, if one lays of the twin turbos, and drives it like a little old lady.  
Sadly, that driving style in not programmed into my DNA,,,,

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5 hours ago, warbird said:

What if I found graphs of all and the were similar (2 stroke excepted)? The torque curve is a function of cam lift, duration and overlap (as well as the porting to support the air flow in higher flow situations).  My gas 4cyl. ford tractor has pretty much the same torque curve as a Mack 300 hp six. 

Makes me think of the honda GP 125 cc 6 cylinder from the 60s.  Power from 13000 rpm to 18000 rpm. :ph34r:

A V-6 feels very different than an I-6 to me, but to be fair, I've never driven the same vehicle with each engine, so who knows. The I-6 feels to me that that the power comes on at the bottom of the shift, the V-6 feels to me that the power comes on toward middle of the shift.

And two-strokes ... my inline 2 Fuji seems to have a much wider powerband than the 1-cylinder two-strokes. But again, apples to oranges, on in that case, dirtbikes to sleds.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

I don't think I ever redlined the 2 liter WRX, with 268 HP, and lots of torque.  The torque topped out around 5 or 6,000, so no point in taking it higher.   The 2017 Beamer 430I that replaced it with, makes nearly the same power with a 2 liter, 4 cylinder with 24 valves, and gets damn good gas mileage, if one lays of the twin turbos, and drives it like a little old lady.  
Sadly, that driving style in not programmed into my DNA,,,,

My friend gave me a ride in his WRX, I nearly puked, the acceleration in that thing coupled with the way he drove it like a dirt-bike was like nothing I had ever experienced. I don't know which WRX that thing was, but it was terrifying to be in the passenger seat.

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3 minutes ago, mikewof said:

My friend gave me a ride in his WRX, I nearly puked, the acceleration in that thing coupled with the way he drove it like a dirt-bike was like nothing I had ever experienced. I don't know which WRX that thing was, but it was terrifying to be in the passenger seat.

Mate of mine had a WRX sti (?) no spoilleres, looked dossille, and he hade race track experinence..............  foire wheelle drifte an entirre clovere leafe entrince rampe cnbe exilleratteng and horrifiying.............                   :)

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Day ride a couple of weeks ago.  Total trip was 435 km or something like that.  This was about an hour out of town - nice alternative route north that we take to avoid the traffic.  Mix of bikes including my old Ducati Multistrada 1100S, a Ducati Scrambler, a CF650, couple of 500 Hondas (one of my F's and a mate and his missus on an X) a 300 Honda, Triumph 675 triple and one of my CRFs.

 

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11 hours ago, mikewof said:

My friend gave me a ride in his WRX, I nearly puked, the acceleration in that thing coupled with the way he drove it like a dirt-bike was like nothing I had ever experienced. I don't know which WRX that thing was, but it was terrifying to be in the passenger seat.

 

Probably was the STI model with 2.5 liter donk making 306 HP.  Problem with the WRX is the too stiff suspension.  I had to train myself to go around ALL potholes and patches in the asphalt.  Wife hated riding in it.  Beamer is smooth as silk comparatively.   STI's have a wing on the back, regular WRX does not.  The movie "Baby Driver" with Kevin Cline is a great showcase of WRX performance!! 

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51 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Probably was the STI model with 2.5 liter donk making 306 HP.  Problem with the WRX is the too stiff suspension.  I had to train myself to go around ALL potholes and patches in the asphalt.  Wife hated riding in it.  Beamer is smooth as silk comparatively.   STI's have a wing on the back, regular WRX does not.  The movie "Baby Driver" with Kevin Cline is a great showcase of WRX performance!! 

kevin spacey not cline but good movie, sound trach and driving scenes.

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46 minutes ago, chester said:

kevin spacey not cline but good movie, sound trach and driving scenes.

 

Yes, Spacey, sorry....  Right before he got in hot water for sexual harassment....

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14 hours ago, warbird said:

See the source image

RIP Russ Collins, 1939-2014.

 he was racing the new Japanese machines while everyone was on the normal British or American-made drag bike of the time. Collins also showed up in sporting colorful red, white and blue leathers when everyone was in all black leather suits.

He built “Assassin”, a fuel injected, supercharged 400hp CB750 and kicked ass in smaller class. so decided to compete in Top Fuel and had some success. But the biggest problem he faced in Top Fuel was a huge displacement disadvantage compared to the big Harley-Davidsons and Triumphs.

He decided to put 3 CB750 engines together. The machine, he named “Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe “– named in honor of the famous railroad line of the late 1800s. The three-engine Honda was featured in bunch of motorcycle and drag racing publications and was probably the most famous drag bike of the 1970s. The Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe set numerous records and Collins rode it to the first seven-second quarter-mile turned on a motorcycle in Ontario, California, in 1973. It even became the first motorcycle to win NHRA’s coveted “Best Engineered Car” award at the Springnationals in 1973

The bike was so powerful and heavy that it proved to be very hard to control and in 1976 the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe was destroyed in a horrendous accident in Akron, Ohio. The crash nearly killed Collins and put him in the hospital. He must have realized how ridiculous the bike was, so petitioned for banning 3 engine drag racers. But as a true grease monkey, while recuperating, he dreamed up V8 engine out of four cylinder Honda motors

The bike he named “the Sorcerer” featured dual Honda 1,000cc engines. This bike won a second “Best Engineered” award for RC Engineering and proved to be the fastest motorcycle ever built by the company. Collins ran a record-setting 7.30 second/199.55 mph run on the Sorcerer. That record stood for an astonishing 11 years. Collin still lives in LA area and runs the RC engineering and was inducted in AMA Motorcycle of Hall of fame in 1999

RUSS COLLINS, A legend with CB750’s PASSES AWAY! – Carpy’s Cafe Racers

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On 1/20/2021 at 10:49 AM, billy backstay said:

 

I don't think I ever redlined the 2 liter WRX, with 268 HP, and lots of torque.  The torque topped out around 5 or 6,000, so no point in taking it higher.   

Huh? Peak torque on the stock 2 litre was down around 3500 - 4000 rpm. Peak power was only at 5500 to 6k rpm, but it would still produce good power over 6500.

If you are not revving past peak torque, you are leaving a lot of horsepower unused. For best performance you want to change gear after the hp peak, so that you don't drop too far back down the hp curve in the next gear. More area under the useable hp curve in each gear is what makes you faster.

This is a motorbike thread, engines that spin really fast is how bikes make big power. Remember power is torque times rpm, so 200 ft/lbs at 10000 rpm beats 300 ft/lbs at 5000 rpm. 

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4 hours ago, Se7en said:

Huh? Peak torque on the stock 2 litre was down around 3500 - 4000 rpm. Peak power was only at 5500 to 6k rpm, but it would still produce good power over 6500.

If you are not revving past peak torque, you are leaving a lot of horsepower unused. For best performance you want to change gear after the hp peak, so that you don't drop too far back down the hp curve in the next gear. More area under the useable hp curve in each gear is what makes you faster.

This is a motorbike thread, engines that spin really fast is how bikes make big power. Remember power is torque times rpm, so 200 ft/lbs at 10000 rpm beats 300 ft/lbs at 5000 rpm. 

On a track, "rideability" that comes from a flatter torque curve is often faster than higher peak power for us mere mortals.  Engines that make high peak power at high rpm at the expense of a flatter torque curve are sometimes a lot more difficult to ride effectively, especially on tighter, more technical tracks.  Those guys that were able to handle the Hondas when Honda was obsessed with peak power were gods.

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22 minutes ago, bridhb said:

On a track, "rideability" that comes from a flatter torque curve is often faster than higher peak power for us mere mortals.  Engines that make high peak power at high rpm at the expense of a flatter torque curve are sometimes a lot more difficult to ride effectively, especially on tighter, more technical tracks.  Those guys that were able to handle the Hondas when Honda was obsessed with peak power were gods.

Not a honda but...

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20 hours ago, bridhb said:

On a track, "rideability" that comes from a flatter torque curve is often faster than higher peak power for us mere mortals.  Engines that make high peak power at high rpm at the expense of a flatter torque curve are sometimes a lot more difficult to ride effectively, especially on tighter, more technical tracks.  Those guys that were able to handle the Hondas when Honda was obsessed with peak power were gods.

Yes, I agree. That's what my comment about " more area under the curve " refers to. With a flat torque curve, the total power that can be used in any gear with optimal changes is often greater that with a higher peak over a short rev range, where you fall out of the 'power band's as you grab the next gear.

You do realise that if the torque curve is flat, hp is increasing linearly don't you?

My race (car) engine has a pretty flat torque curve from around 5500 to 7500, and produces peak power at 7800. I spin it out to 8200, and have a CR gearbox to keep the revs in the zone. ( lest it sounds like I'm competent, I have a soft cut at 8250 and hard cut at 8500, and regularly hit the hard cut by mistake. It's only in theory that I change nicely at 8200)

Anyone who can ride a powerful bike fast is a God in my eyes. I can pedal a car OK, but my few track excursions on a bike have shown I should stick to cars.

My post was in response to someone suggesting that short changing in a WRX was just as fast as using all the rev range. I've tracked a modified 99, plus my 2005, and don't agree that is the case. And, for the record, I was crap at driving both of them. I  much prefer a light, high revving NA car.

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6 hours ago, Se7en said:

Yes, I agree. That's what my comment about " more area under the curve " refers to. With a flat torque curve, the total power that can be used in any gear with optimal changes is often greater that with a higher peak over a short rev range, where you fall out of the 'power band's as you grab the next gear.

One of the better examples of that was the old Ford Boss 302 engine. Ford basically slapped 351 Cleveland heads on the 302 but the ports were so huge that it narrowed the power band to about 500 RPM - from like 5500 to 6000.

It kinda worked on the track - they won in '70 but the car was useless on the street.

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I nearly had one of my dream bikes a few days ago ...

Checking out CL ... wtf, a TransAlp "needs work" for $500. I get on the phone, cancel both meetings, then dig out my emergency bike cash stash, run out to my truck, make sure I had the tie downs, check. That took all of 15 minutes, I pull up the ad on my phone before I pull out to call on the speaker while I'm driving, can't waste any time ... as the ad reloads, the status changes, phone number disappears, and replaced with the worst word in Transalps ... "SOLD."

If only I would have checked early in the morning instead of lunch, the legendary TransAlp would be in my garage, waiting for some TLC. Something about of them, it's the sound of adventure. The Africa Twin lost some of the raw naked energy of the TA. I'll get one someday, though I'll likely have to pay full price. Epic bike, the only twin that could actually function as a dual-sport imo.

What a beautiful woman, makes my heart race every time I see one of her sisters: https://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/d/denver-1989-honda-transalp-sold/7267571605.html

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2 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

I've had faster bikes,  but nothing has ever fit me better - plus,  it's great on bad roads,  so it's like it was MADE for this town.

20171226_112326.jpg

 

1 minute ago, Great Red Shark said:

Back-up bike.  Because: zombies.

20190411_141104.jpg

Get rid of the plastics and styling, give me a speedo, tach and neutral indicator(not really needed) and a headlight (really big and bright) and I might be interested.

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1 minute ago, chester said:

the beak...no manufacturer can make a bike of any genre without that ficking beak...fuck they're ugly.  sorry man, i'm sure they are great bikes but christ i hate the beaks.

Since the demise of the Commando,  manufactures are afraid buyers dont want to see a modern motor, coolant lines, wires and all.  It is the porn mentality, everybody is skinny and no one has pubic hair:D

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13 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

agBGzow_460swp.webp

There was a guy that road raced in the SE (USA) region that had one arm.  He was pretty damn quick.  I am glad I wasn't in the  classes he raced in.

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10 hours ago, chester said:

the beak...no manufacturer can make a bike of any genre without that fucking beak...fuck they're ugly.  sorry man, i'm sure they are great bikes but christ i hate the beaks.

I think it started on the Dakar bikes when they were big, before they went to the 450's, and became a "must have" styling feature to tell everyone at Starbucks that you are on an "adventure" bike.  It seems it is just starting to change, thankfully.

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11 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

I've had faster bikes,  but nothing has ever fit me better - plus,  it's great on bad roads,  so it's like it was MADE for this town.

20171226_112326.jpg

I have the R100GS great grandfather of that.  I need to find some photos and also get it running again (down for starter issues).  I have not ridden one of the newer ones but my old GS is surprisingly competent off road as long as the speeds are kept reasonable.  It feels a lot lighter than it is.

Nice looking waves in the background!

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3 minutes ago, bridhb said:

I think it started on the Dakar bikes when they were big, before they went to the 450's, and became a "must have" styling feature to tell everyone at Starbucks that you are on an "adventure" bike.  It seems it is just starting to change, thankfully.

i hope yer right.  and it's not just the beak,  all the rairing pieces are heavily facetted.  the headlight seeminly coming to a point,  they are all designed to look like irradiated insects. snowmobiles and atv's too i think.  

kawasaki showed some restraint with the reintroduction of the KLR ??  but why kink the fender?  just hang a damn curve in there!

Pearl Sand Khaki

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9 minutes ago, chester said:

i hope yer right.  and it's not just the beak,  all the rairing pieces are heavily facetted.  the headlight seeminly coming to a point,  they are all designed to look like irradiated insects. snowmobiles and atv's too i think.  

kawasaki showed some restraint with the reintroduction of the KLR ??  but why kink the fender?  just hang a damn curve in there!

Pearl Sand Khaki

KTM is the most guilty of the "transformer" look.

Ducati did a good job with the "desert sled" styling:

Image result for ducati desert sled

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1 hour ago, bridhb said:

There was a guy that road raced in the SE (USA) region that had one arm.  He was pretty damn quick.  I am glad I wasn't in the  classes he raced in.

An arm weighs what, a good twenty pounds? Some riders will drill their seat brackets just to shave off a few ounces.

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15 hours ago, warbird said:

Get rid of the plastics and styling, give me a speedo, tach and neutral indicator(not really needed) and a headlight (really big and bright) and I might be interested.

Like I said...

image.png.3bb175c894add44613c76b31d7c3e927.png

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I think the first 'beak' on a production bike,  was the Suzuki DR Big.

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/suzu/Suzuki_dr750 89.htm

You guys can moan all you like.  I don't just look at them,  I ride them daily,  year-round,  and for street use they work for me better than the others have.

And there have been a lot of other bikes.  I've been riding since Carter was president and I've had bikes nearly that whole time. 

A motorcycle IS all about the motor to me.  But not how it looks.  How it goes.  How it makes that power,  the character of the delivery.

Both these bikes have great motors for how I ride.  And that's all I want now.  What I got.

The new R1250GS ?  Fuck no.   Twenty-five grand for something that can fall over?  You outta your mind?

I don't think I've got 10 grand in the pair.   ( I loves me some used bikes )  and I live 3 blocks downwind of the Pacific Ocean,  so bikes are somewhat consumable items.  I could have nicer ones but then I'd want to keep them clean and I got boats to sail.

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Plastic,  you say?

Had this one for about 3 years.  Pretty goddam fast for a bike with factory bags!

Oh, birdhb - the GS's are a misunderstood bunch but those that know,  know.   That shot was out on Kaena Point, the far West end of Oahu's North Shore, out where the road ends,  on a Christmas day a couple years back.   Funny enough this one below is out near Kahuku, the east end of that coast.

 

aprilia futura.jpg

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2 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

   Fuck no.   Twenty-five grand for something that can fall over?  You outta your mind?

   ( I loves me some used bikes ) 

Well, you know, with a used bike you can check it out to see if it did fall over,  show room floor not so sure....

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3 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

Plastic,  you say?

Had this one for about 3 years.  Pretty goddam fast for a bike with factory bags!

Oh, birdhb - the GS's are a misunderstood bunch but those that know,  know.   That shot was out on Kaena Point, the far West end of Oahu's North Shore, out where the road ends,  on a Christmas day a couple years back.   Funny enough this one below is out near Kahuku, the east end of that coast.

 

aprilia futura.jpg

jeez, you need a highway tourer for oahu?  what,  there's like 30 miles of highway there..

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3 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

ha, i'd like to see you do a 600 miler on that hard tail.. 

I wouldn't do 600 miles on any naked bike.

600 miles is what cars are for.

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4 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

jeez, you need a highway tourer for oahu?  what,  there's like 30 miles of highway there..

Need?

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them - but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one. That is why they are dangerous."   HST

 

I was looking for a Tuono and that popped up - you take what you get on a island,  and that's more of a sport-tourer,  but I just like having luggage for daily use -, carry my seabag,  stash the riding gear while sailing, pick up groceries on the way home.

They aren't just weekend toys for me.

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On 2/12/2021 at 9:36 AM, mikewof said:

An arm weighs what, a good twenty pounds? Some riders will drill their seat brackets just to shave off a few ounces.

Friend of mine I bike with just had a kidney removed due to cancer.  I am trying to lighten up  the seriousness by telling him he will be a lot faster now due to the weight reduction.

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21 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

Plastic,  you say?

Had this one for about 3 years.  Pretty goddam fast for a bike with factory bags!

Oh, birdhb - the GS's are a misunderstood bunch but those that know,  know.   That shot was out on Kaena Point, the far West end of Oahu's North Shore, out where the road ends,  on a Christmas day a couple years back.   Funny enough this one below is out near Kahuku, the east end of that coast.

 

aprilia futura.jpg

Had a RSVR "Factory" as a HW Twins class race bike for a while.  Took me a season to realize I was too old for turn 1 coming at me that fast and went back to the LW Twins.  Neat bikes, don't see many of them.

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16 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I wouldn't do 600 miles on any naked bike.

600 miles is what cars are for.

 

I did about 3,000 miles from San Francisco to NYC on a naked Honda 450. She ran like a champ, that little gal. I ran out of money in Indianapolis, I just had enough for gas and a couple bags of Funyuns, no more Motel 6 money. So I woke up at 5:00 am, gorged myself on their free Cap'n Crunch and then rode nonstop over 700 miles from Indy to NYC, just stopping for gas. I made it there by about 10 pm or so ... the things a man will do when he's of "Motel 6 Money" and on "Gas & Funyuns money." Part of that of course, is stuffing a bunch of the free blue paper towels at the gas station into your jacket to maintain a little extra warmth ... I remember getting off the bike  on 23rd and Lexington to embrace my then-girlfriend, and my arms were stiffed into the position of riding a Honda 450 nonstop of 700 miles.

That does stay with a person it seems ... because a few years later, I bought a little Subaru Impreza, and I'm in this little car, driving down some anonymous highway in New Jersey, when it starts to rain. I sat inside this car on a sufficiently comfortable seat, moving down the road, miraculously, able to stay dry while moving through the rain. No bike foulies, no saturated bugs slapping me in the face shield, no misery, just this magical pilothouse that someone figured out how to build on top of two side-by-side motorcycles. Cars are wonderful, but all the more so when you've put a few thousand miles onto a too-small naked bike.

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11 hours ago, mikewof said:

 

I did about 3,000 miles from San Francisco to NYC on a naked Honda 450. She ran like a champ, that little gal. I ran out of money in Indianapolis, I just had enough for gas and a couple bags of Funyuns, no more Motel 6 money. So I woke up at 5:00 am, gorged myself on their free Cap'n Crunch and then rode nonstop over 700 miles from Indy to NYC, just stopping for gas. I made it there by about 10 pm or so ... the things a man will do when he's of "Motel 6 Money" and on "Gas & Funyuns money." Part of that of course, is stuffing a bunch of the free blue paper towels at the gas station into your jacket to maintain a little extra warmth ... I remember getting off the bike  on 23rd and Lexington to embrace my then-girlfriend, and my arms were stiffed into the position of riding a Honda 450 nonstop of 700 miles.

That does stay with a person it seems ... because a few years later, I bought a little Subaru Impreza, and I'm in this little car, driving down some anonymous highway in New Jersey, when it starts to rain. I sat inside this car on a sufficiently comfortable seat, moving down the road, miraculously, able to stay dry while moving through the rain. No bike foulies, no saturated bugs slapping me in the face shield, no misery, just this magical pilothouse that someone figured out how to build on top of two side-by-side motorcycles. Cars are wonderful, but all the more so when you've put a few thousand miles onto a too-small naked bike.

was it a nighthawk?

 

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3 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

was it a nighthawk?

 

It was the CB-450T Hawk. The only maintenance she ever needed was to have her chain tightened.

I later got the CB750 Nighthawk, that was a terrific bike too. I gave away the Hawk in exchange for some booze, and some lucky bastard got the Nighthawk for a song and a dance.

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