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Every fucking time, it's the Democrats that are supposed to "heal the country" that the Republicans just spent 4/8 years trashing. No, it's time for some accountability. It's time people like Cruz and

shut up, bitch.

And y'all bitched that the first one took too long. Fuck your feelings.

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I think this is up to McConnell. If he says impeach it's a done deal.  If not, this will be another House action.

There may be a few GOP members who want Trump out of their way for a Presidential run but few have the balls to cross him -  Romney maybe.

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It's certainly pretty fluid in terms of who might be running the GOP and allegiance to trump appears to have lower value and the value is dropping by the minute. At some point it might tip and they might all be racing to not be the last person who appears to support him.

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Only twelve days left.  And impeachment has way too many moving parts to get it all together in time.  And neither side did a particularly good job of it the first time.  They will find, or stumble into, a way to F... this one up too.

25th Amendment is marginally simpler.  But for reasons I can't even think of, they'll mess that up too.   And everyone in any faction large or small, will end up hating each other even more than they do now.

Just let the clock run out.

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21 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Will democRATS go there?

Will Republicans join them? Those running for president in 2024 might like the idea of removing His ability to run again. 
 

Thoughts?

Checkov's Gun. As soon as Pelosi used the word impeachment, she's pretty much committed to impeaching. My only complaint is that if Dems are going to do it, Just Do It. Seriously, there's no need to milk this for any dramatic tension. Impeachment has zero requirements. No hearings are necessary. It is a political judgment. Just Do It and put pressure on McConnell. And expect nothing because, you know, Republicans.

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5 minutes ago, nolatom said:

Only twelve days left.  And impeachment has way too many moving parts to get it all together in time.  And neither side did a particularly good job of it the first time.  They will find, or stumble into, a way to F... this one up too.

25th Amendment is marginally simpler.  But for reasons I can't even think of, they'll mess that up too.   And everyone in any faction large or small, will end up hating each other even more than they do now.

Just let the clock run out.

This 
I don't understand why you would want to create even more separation and hatred at this point by making him a martyr.
Be the better man - and let the clock run out.

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My reading was that as soon as you start the 25th process, Pence takes over.  So why not start the process then let the clock run out?

Oh, right, I forgot.  Because it's Pence.  

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Dumbest thing to do.  If you truly want to revitalize the Trump brand make him a martyr.  It’s less than two weeks to go until he is out anyway.    He has conceded and will leave,  any attempt to remove him early will be viewed as a vendetta by the left.  The actions on Wed have turned a lot of his supporters away from him. Don’t give him an excuse to be a victim 

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2 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

My reading was that as soon as you start the 25th process, Pence takes over.  So why not start the process then let the clock run out?

Oh, right, I forgot.  Because it's Pence.  

No that’s not how it works,  if the president objects there is a 21 day waiting period.   Anyone think Trump would not object?  

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2 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

My reading was that as soon as you start the 25th process, Pence takes over.  So why not start the process then let the clock run out?

Oh, right, I forgot.  Because it's Pence.  

It's legal BS, Since it has never been done before it is going to be tied up for months...  Then you get Pense/Trump fighting for who is actually prez..  then you get biden...  Bigest thing I see is it would bar him from running in 2024...  Many would like this, but I don't know if there are enough.  Impeachment may take Saouon's eye from Frodo and give us a path back to normalcy, but we may not have the troops to take him out this time...   

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7 minutes ago, The Joker said:

No that’s not how it works,  if the president objects there is a 21 day waiting period.   Anyone think Trump would not object?  

Got a cite for that?

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7 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Dumbest thing to do.  If you truly want to revitalize the Trump brand make him a martyr.  It’s less than two weeks to go until he is out anyway.    He has conceded and will leave,  any attempt to remove him early will be viewed as a vendetta by the left.  The actions on Wed have turned a lot of his supporters have turned away from him. Don’t give him an excuse to be a victim 

We've got a similar situation going on here locally. 

Guy robbed a bank and got caught.  It's being debated whether prosecuting him would be viewed as a vendetta, and that he should be let go as to not give him an excuse to be a victim. 

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Just now, benwynn said:

We've got a similar situation going on here locally. 

Guy robbed a bank and got caught.  It's being debated whether prosecuting him would be viewed as a vendetta, and that he should be let go as to not give him an excuse to be a victim. 

You left off he is president of the bank and still works there.

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Letting the clock run out is fine so long as it just runs out. No one knows the damage Trump may cause or violence he might incite over the next 12 days. How many people have said what happened Wednesday was not only unprecedented  in American politics it was unthinkable.  

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3 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

Guys, it was nice knowing you all, I agree with the Joke, so now I have to jump off the Coronado Bridge.

Nope. He needs to face the music, and he needs to be held responsible.

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Impeach and then march him off in cuffs and all the people who incited violence from the stage they too should be in prison. 

Throw the book so hard that for a couple of centuries no one thinks of trying shit like this again or else its going to be normalised, may even become an annual event and then banana republic. 

trump has shown the way, stamp it out before someone competent takes his place. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

Impeach and then march him off in cuffs and all the people who incited violence from the stage they too should be in prison. 

Throw the book so hard that for a couple of centuries no one thinks of trying shit like this again or else its going to be normalised, may even become an annual event and then banana republic. 

trump has shown the way, stamp it out before someone competent takes his place. 

 

 

Wait. Did he switch parties or something? This is not a time for accountability otherwise. 

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22 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Got a cite for that?

I heard it on the news Might have heard the 21 day part wrong but clearly Trump keeps power if he objects
     
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

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I would have thought there would be a negotiation going on. Potus immediate resignation against non prosecution and pardons and a library
or airport named after him and future draft choices? Something like this. There is also leverage with non federal crimes,  the NY DA and Georgia would have to be onboard also. If they can do 3  way trades in baseball  they can get something like this done. But considering Pence is giving Potus the silent treatment, and he kept Pelosi and Schumer on hold for 20 minutes and then refused to come to the phone with them yesterday, seems doubtful any talks are going on.  I'm sure Hunter and Jared could hammer something out if we could just get  them talking.  Look how standards have changed.  Nobody died in Watergate and Nixon was out.   Impeachment wont happen and nobody has balls for 25th amendment. Dosnt  the accused get time to mount an adequate time to mount a defense in an impeachment?  Has to be a negotiated settlement if anything. But the odds are on nothing will be done as the Repub pols want and need his remaining base of wingnuts in the future.   Maybe someone like Mitch who is at retirement age and wouldn't care about re-election will be visited by a spirit and decide to do the right thing and propose impeachment? Trump is done. He wont be back in 2024 and his influence is shot except for some extremists. 

 

     
 

     

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1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

Impeach now. Senate won't remove but he will leave with the honor of being the only POTUS ever impeached twice.  #WinningBigly

There's time for a third impeachment, that would set a record that would be hard to beat.

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There is a chance at conviction. It is slim. The Senate is currently 51-48, Republican, which gives Shitstain an added advantage. However, if Georgia certifies soon, it could be 50-50. Then it would take about 17 Republicans. Slim but possible. There will be more than Romney.

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I dont think Trump cares at this point if he has been impeached once  or twice  or ten times. Sure he has to be accountable and they should try
but he will just claim partisan politics. I think it might hurt more to resign in shame and be seen  waving from AF1 for the last time in West Palm Beach. 

 

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1 hour ago, ModernViking said:
1 hour ago, nolatom said:

Only twelve days left.  And impeachment has way too many moving parts to get it all together in time.  And neither side did a particularly good job of it the first time.  They will find, or stumble into, a way to F... this one up too.

25th Amendment is marginally simpler.  But for reasons I can't even think of, they'll mess that up too.   And everyone in any faction large or small, will end up hating each other even more than they do now.

Just let the clock run out.

This 
I don't understand why you would want to create even more separation and hatred at this point by making him a martyr.
Be the better man - and let the clock run out.

Really? After seeing a mob violence coup attempt, you think Trump is really not that bad after all?

I'm in favor of trials for treason for Trump, his family, the Republican officeholders who were encouraging, helping organize, and funding, mob violence against the assembled Congress of the United States. Certainly some of them are guilty of conspiracy to treason and accessory to murder of a police officer.

Let all the facts come out.

Then talk about "be the better man."

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Will democRATS go there?

Will Republicans join them? Those running for president in 2024 might like the idea of removing His ability to run again. 
 

Thoughts?

It’s just not going to happen even though it should.  At this point with the time remaining we should focus on a censure and containing him.  If he pardons himself prosecute him within an inch of his life.  If there are sufficient state criminal charges to send him to prison for years let them do it but if there’s a air tight case against him for Wednesday (and I think there is along with Don Jr. and Rudy) let the DOJ go to town on him.

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14 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

I dont think Trump cares at this point if he has been impeached once  or twice  or ten times. Sure he has to be accountable and they should try
but he will just claim partisan politics. I think it might hurt more to resign in shame and be seen  waving from AF1 for the last time in West Palm Beach. 

 

I agree. There is always a small number of people who will insist that their legal trouble is all due to persecution.

That's why I say, let the facts come out. The average Trumpalo is hearing all time about our great wonderful economy but is sinking into despair. He's hearing about how the evil Democrats want to jam SOCIALISM down their throats. They hear that the mob yesterday did nothing wrong that they were patriots, and that somehow at the same time it was ANTIFA/BLM that did it.

A couple of basic, undeniable facts will filter down to the street level, and there are plenty of fish in this barrel. The ones that can make a plausible case for partisanship, let 'em go. We can fry the big ones when it's all settled.

- DSK

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14 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Really? After seeing a mob violence coup attempt, you think Trump is really not that bad after all?

I'm in favor of trials for treason for Trump, his family, the Republican officeholders who were encouraging, helping organize, and funding, mob violence against the assembled Congress of the United States. Certainly some of them are guilty of conspiracy to treason and accessory to murder of a police officer.

Let all the facts come out.

Then talk about "be the better man."

- DSK

No I don't think so.
Do as you please, but if you want to re-unite the country and look ahead, I am not sure how this would help.

But yeah -  it's your country.
Wish you all the best.

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5 minutes ago, ModernViking said:

No I don't think so.
Do as you please, but if you want to re-unite the country and look ahead, I am not sure how this would help.

But yeah -  it's your country.
Wish you all the best.

Every fucking time, it's the Democrats that are supposed to "heal the country" that the Republicans just spent 4/8 years trashing. No, it's time for some accountability. It's time people like Cruz and Miss Lindsey are held responsible for the bullshit they have supported, otherwise it's "do what you want, you can get away with anything" on the Republican side. 

Trump is a traitor who tried to pull off a coup. That he's too fucking incompetent to pull it off doesn't matter.

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Doing what is best for the country is why Nixon was pardoned and allowed to resign. That set the precedent for bad behavior, I mean who gives a shit if the worst that happens is you go home?

Impeach, prosecute, set a fucking example of what happens when you break the law. The hardcore Trumpers will never change so get on with it. I already know people who have decided enough is enough. Go all Nike on Trump and Just Do It.

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:

Every fucking time, it's the Democrats that are supposed to "heal the country" that the Republicans just spent 4/8 years trashing. No, it's time for some accountability. It's time people like Cruz and Miss Lindsey are held responsible for the bullshit they have supported, otherwise it's "do what you want, you can get away with anything" on the Republican side. 

Trump is a traitor who tried to pull off a coup. That he's too fucking incompetent to pull it off doesn't matter.

Good luck with that 

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2 minutes ago, ModernViking said:
19 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Really? After seeing a mob violence coup attempt, you think Trump is really not that bad after all?

I'm in favor of trials for treason for Trump, his family, the Republican officeholders who were encouraging, helping organize, and funding, mob violence against the assembled Congress of the United States. Certainly some of them are guilty of conspiracy to treason and accessory to murder of a police officer.

Let all the facts come out.

Then talk about "be the better man."

 

No I don't think so.
Do as you please, but if you want to re-unite the country and look ahead, I am not sure how this would help.

But yeah -  it's your country.
Wish you all the best.

Well, as an honest question, what do you think happened on Wednesday?

I've already said that I think the average Trumpalo has legitimate grievances. I also think that a larger number of right-wing politicians are benefitting from divisiveness and fomenting hatred/violence than any lefties. I'm all in favor of persuading people to NOT start a civil war, just listen to at least some slight degree of facts. People who want to take a baseball bat to Nancy Pelosi to stop evil socialism, and cheer at the prospect of a mob doing so? Fuck 'em, when the time comes they'll either be fertilizer or much poorer than they are now.

1 minute ago, Ishmael said:

Every fucking time, it's the Democrats that are supposed to "heal the country" ....

And then get called weakling pussies for trying.

- DSK

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5 minutes ago, ModernViking said:

No I don't think so.
Do as you please, but if you want to re-unite the country and look ahead, I am not sure how this would help.

But yeah -  it's your country.
Wish you all the best.

Sunlight.  Process and identify ALL charges.  Maybe let a few slide, as is usually the case.

But there's no way to "look ahead" if the only penalty for trying to break a law is not being successful at it.

 

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13 minutes ago, ModernViking said:

No I don't think so.
Do as you please, but if you want to re-unite the country and look ahead, I am not sure how this would help.

But yeah -  it's your country.
Wish you all the best.

It is not singularly a liberal/Democratic burden to re-unite the country. Moreover, sweeping this under the rug will not re-unite the country. Now you could make an argument for a shared burden but I'm not seeing that cross being borne by any elk. Indeed Shitstain was given even an ovation by the Republican National Committee after the storming of the Capitol.

Republicans already played their Get Out Of Jail Free card once with Nixon. This is where rule of law and accountability come in.

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

New York’s Finest Genius will not be impeached again. 

OK, but what about Trump, aka Florida's Finest Genius?

What has not been mentioned that I could see is that Trump's latest, and very serious, transgression has dramatically changed the atmosphere moving forward wrt how Trump will be viewed. The 'let's not prosecute him idea because we have to heal the nation' faction no longer exists. The likelihood of the Palm Beach government not enforcing the Mar A Lago agreement is way down. Who would want this guy living in your community? Will be interesting to watch.

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1 minute ago, Olsonist said:

It is not a liberal/Democratic burden to re-unite the country. Moreover, sweeping this under the rug will not re-unite the country. You could make an argument for a shared burden but I'm not seeing that cross being borne by any elk. Indeed Shitstain was given an ovation by the Republican National Committee after the storming of the Capitol.

This is where rule of law and accountability come in.

Fair point.
I don't like the Trump, and is sitting very well outside the whole situation.
Just wondering how it would be best to move forward.
I really hope you will get it all sorted out.

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People like us bitching about Fox, Rush, and Hannity comes across as just sour grapes.

It must be proven to the 74 million people that the people/news orgs. that they believed can and are being charged

with actual crimes.

The speed-of-light misinformation has the advantage, but the slow rule of law MUST be allowed to run it's course.

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Does no one think that if Trump is impeached, 25th'ed or resigns that Pence and Mother won't pray on pardoning him for...oh....about 30 seconds and then do it, even though Trump has backed the buss over him?

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8 minutes ago, ModernViking said:

Fair point.
I don't like the Trump, and is sitting very well outside the whole situation.
Just wondering how it would be best to move forward.
I really hope you will get it all sorted out.

So here's the deal. We won't get it all sorted out because it is part and parcel of the human condition. The absolute best we can hope for is a form of democracy and relative peace. That's it. That's all. So when Shitstain's Deplorables stormed the Capitol, they were assaulting both our democracy and disturbing our peace and that stepped over the line.

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4 minutes ago, bridhb said:

Does no one think that if Trump is impeached, 25th'ed or resigns that Pence and Mother won't pray on pardoning him for...oh....about 30 seconds and then do it, even though Trump has backed the buss over him?

It does not matter, pardon or not.  He is out..  He will be prosecuted civilly, he will be prosecuted by the Country of Scotland for tax fraud and he has the entire country of fucking Iran on a jihad against him..  so..  No, what pence does does not matter 1 bit. The wheels of justice turn slowly, but he will get his...  Just do something to keep him from the levers of power for the next couple of days

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4 minutes ago, bridhb said:

Does no one think that if Trump is impeached, 25th'ed or resigns that Pence and Mother won't pray on pardoning him for...oh....about 30 seconds and then do it, even though Trump has backed the buss over him?

You can't hold back following the law because of the possibility of a pardon.

It MUST be done.  It's their job.

It might show how much of the joke the pardon process is, and spur modifications.

 

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12 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

OK, but what about Trump, aka Florida's Finest Genius?

What has not been mentioned that I could see is that Trump's latest, and very serious, transgression has dramatically changed the atmosphere moving forward wrt how Trump will be viewed. The 'let's not prosecute him idea because we have to heal the nation' faction no longer exists. The likelihood of the Palm Beach government not enforcing the Mar A Lago agreement is way down. Who would want this guy living in your community? Will be interesting to watch.

Ask any New Yorker in FL where they are from. They will not say FL....  

Palm Beach will not mess around with his brand of bullshit. That's how he got the huge fines that he paid off from his charitable foundation. There's more money around there than he has.  Old money. Quiet money. And they are not at all intimidated by brash, loud mouthed bullshitters. 

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12 minutes ago, Mike G said:

People like us bitching about Fox, Rush, and Hannity comes across as just sour grapes.

It must be proven to the 74 million people that the people/news orgs. that they believed can and are being charged

with actual crimes.

The speed-of-light misinformation has the advantage, but the slow rule of law MUST be allowed to run it's course.

^ This ^

Big problem with "the marketplace of ideas" is that snake-oil salesmen have much more attractive... on the surface... merchandise. And we now have two or three generations of USAnians who -believe- advertising.

- DSK

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7 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Ask any New Yorker in FL where they are from. They will not say FL....  

Palm Beach will not mess around with his brand of bullshit. That's how he got the huge fines that he paid off from his charitable foundation. There's more money around there than he has.  Old money. Quiet money. And they are not at all intimidated by brash, loud mouthed bullshitters. 

I agree.  After this, he is going to have a hard time planting roots anywhere close to real money...  Mlago will be sold to pay off legal fees or the neighbors will just sue him out of existence.  He'll prob buy a compound somewhere in the upper panhandle where the elk are abundant and he can play televangelist...  

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2 minutes ago, shaggy said:

I agree.  After this, he is going to have a hard time planting roots anywhere close to real money...  Mlago will be sold to pay off legal fees or the neighbors will just sue him out of existence.  He'll prob buy a compound somewhere in the upper panhandle Georgia where the elk are abundant and he can play televangelist...  

He might have to learn to speak the language.

Republic-of-Georgia-boundaries-map-locat

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31 minutes ago, shaggy said:

I agree.  After this, he is going to have a hard time planting roots anywhere close to real money...  Mlago will be sold to pay off legal fees or the neighbors will just sue him out of existence.  He'll prob buy a compound somewhere in the upper panhandle where the elk are abundant and he can play televangelist...  

He doesn't really own it, one of the problems Trump has run hard up against is his habit of taking out multiple mortgages on the same property.

A big part of of his problem with the state of New York is that he told the bank it's worth $XXX for a loan on it, and told the state it's only worth $X for tax evaluation. Dunno why he skated on this for so long.

He's really kind of stupid. But for sure, he's going to lose even the appearance of being a rich guy

- DSK

 

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7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

He doesn't really own it, one of the problems Trump has run hard up against is his habit of taking out multiple mortgages on the same property.

A big part of of his problem with the state of New York is that he told the bank it's worth $XXX for a loan on it, and told the state it's only worth $X for tax evaluation. Dunno why he skated on this for so long.

He's really kind of stupid. But for sure, he's going to lose even the appearance of being a rich guy

- DSK

 

The couple hundred million from Trumpaloos recently will help...

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Even if another impeachment does not remove him right away, it might serve a few purposes:

Congress and Senate, Teams D and R, can prove they hold up the law above the bullshitter in chief.

Even if he challenges it beyond his term (up to 21 days, yes?) the verdict will still apply to the then ex-president.

This impeachment seems to be the easiest way to ban him from ever running again.

That last point is the most important one, short of locking him up for whatever else he might be found guilty of. Disqualified because he was unfit for that office all along. (Side note: he could actually run for POTUS from prison! He might not be allowed to vote but he could still be voted for.)

Besides, he would be consumed enough by an impeachment to be unable to micro-manage his twitter crowd into some other sort of violent BS. Smothered, if you will.

 

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16 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

He doesn't really own it, one of the problems Trump has run hard up against is his habit of taking out multiple mortgages on the same property.

A big part of of his problem with the state of New York is that he told the bank it's worth $XXX for a loan on it, and told the state it's only worth $X for tax evaluation. Dunno why he skated on this for so long.

He's really kind of stupid. But for sure, he's going to lose even the appearance of being a rich guy

- DSK

 

???

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8 minutes ago, Grog said:

Even if another impeachment does not remove him right away, it might serve a few purposes:

Congress and Senate, Teams D and R, can prove they hold up the law above the bullshitter in chief.

Even if he challenges it beyond his term (up to 21 days, yes?) the verdict will still apply to the then ex-president.

This impeachment seems to be the easiest way to ban him from ever running again.

That last point is the most important one, short of locking him up for whatever else he might be found guilty of. Disqualified because he was unfit for that office all along. (Side note: he could actually run for POTUS from prison! He might not be allowed to vote but he could still be voted for.)

Besides, he would be consumed enough by an impeachment to be unable to micro-manage his twitter crowd into some other sort of violent BS. Smothered, if you will.

 

25th = no run again.  Impeachment = Maybe run again if your elk will have you...  

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12 minutes ago, Grog said:

Even if another impeachment does not remove him right away, it might serve a few purposes:

Congress and Senate can prove they hold up the law above the bullshitter in chief.

Even if he challenges it beyond his term (up to 21 days, yes?) the verdict will still apply to the then ex-president.

This impeachment seems to be the easiest way to ban him from ever running again.

That last point is the most important one, short of locking him up for whatever else he might be found guilty of. Disqualified because he was unfit for that office all along. (Side note: he could actually run for POTUS from prison! He might not be allowed to vote but he could still be voted for.)

Besides, he would be consumed enough by an impeachment to be unable to micro-manage his twitter crowd into some other sort of violent BS. Smothered, if you will.

Whoa there, cowboy.

A failed conviction does not prove the Senate can uphold the law, and really there is no law with impeachment. It is more akin to a vote of confidence. By itself it carries no penalties besides removal from office.

He cannot challenge an impeachment conviction.

It's a little hard to suss out of the text but disqualification requires a second vote after conviction. Yes, that would happen if he got convicted since Republicans would want no part of him for the duration.

Criminal (once he's out of office) federal charges and state charges, and civil penalties are another matter. My guess is he invokes the Ken Lay / Jeffrey Epstein defense.

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17 minutes ago, Raz'r said:
25 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

He doesn't really own it, one of the problems Trump has run hard up against is his habit of taking out multiple mortgages on the same property.

A big part of of his problem with the state of New York is that he told the bank it's worth $XXX for a loan on it, and told the state it's only worth $X for tax evaluation. Dunno why he skated on this for so long.

He's really kind of stupid. But for sure, he's going to lose even the appearance of being a rich guy

 

The couple hundred million from Trumpaloos recently will help...

If he can stiff the banks and hang onto it, yeah. Unless he puts it in cash and handcuffs it to Eric's wrists, he's not going to keep it. The Republican Party already wants it, and it's not even a down payment on what he owes.

That $440 mill the news was talking about a few weeks ago? That's a payment on ONE of his debts.

- DSK

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11 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:
28 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

He's really kind of stupid. But for sure, he's going to lose even the appearance of being a rich guy

 

 

???

OK, he's dumb as a doorknob. Rich and mean seems to have served him a substitute for success.

- DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

If he can stiff the banks and hang onto it, yeah. Unless he puts it in cash and handcuffs it to Eric's wrists, he's not going to keep it. The Republican Party already wants it, and it's not even a down payment on what he owes.

That $440 mill the news was talking about a few weeks ago? That's a payment on ONE of his debts.

- DSK

Which the banks will happily defer for a word in the right place, a favor or a line in a bill. 

He still has the power, look at the RNC's standing ovation after the coup attempt. Those R's will do their masters bidding.

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9 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Whoa there, cowboy.

A failed conviction does not prove the Senate can uphold the law, and really there is no law with impeachment. It is more akin to a vote of confidence. By itself it carries no penalties besides removal from office.

He cannot challenge an impeachment conviction.

It's a little hard to suss out of the text but disqualification requires a second vote after conviction. Yes, that would happen if he got convicted since Republicans would want no part of him for the duration.

Criminal (once he's out of office) federal charges and state charges, and civil penalties are another matter. My guess is he invokes the Ken Lay / Jeffrey Epstein defense.

Oh, well, it kinda sounded nice when I pieced it together, but I have to admit I am probably way out of my waters here. I am not a lawyer and most definitely not an US one.

Point of those bits and pieces is: I want to see him gone from the political stage, forever. If the US can restore some dignity and credibility along the way, even better.

And if it helps, he can do the Epstein thing. Last hour will suffice.

 

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2 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

Which the banks will happily defer for a word in the right place, a favor or a line in a bill. 

He still has the power, look at the RNC's standing ovation after the coup attempt. Those R's will do their masters bidding.

You're right, but he has lost a LOT of that leverage and may be losing it all.

If Trump and his minions walk out of this, America is really and truly fucked.

- DSK

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15 minutes ago, Grog said:

Oh, well, it kinda sounded nice when I pieced it together, but I have to admit I am probably way out of my waters here. I am not a lawyer and most definitely not an US one.

Point of those bits and pieces is: I want to see him gone from the political stage, forever. If the US can restore some dignity and credibility along the way, even better.

And if it helps, he can do the Epstein thing. Last hour will suffice.

People say wars are how Americans learn geography. It's probably the same with the big C. I got dinged (elsewhere) on the separate vote thing. Also, the constitution isn't written precisely. The separate vote thing is inferred. Does disqualification take 2/3s? No, it takes a simple majority because ... there is no because.

The distinction being made here is in the low integer multiples of RCHs. Rather than get caught up in constitutional minutia, it's better to take the big picture. Nancy's pissed and she wants Republican names written down for posterity. She's way too much of a realist to expect Republicans to Do The Right Thing. She just wants their signature on the The Wrong Thing.

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IF tRump was any sort of man he'd walk .

he's not , he won't .

have a good look in a mirror those who still support him , he defines you .

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33 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

OK, he's dumb as a doorknob. Rich and mean seems to have served him a substitute for success.

- DSK

The thing is that he could have avoided all this and lived out his life grifting happily in all of his many failures.  But for 1 trip down an escalator.  5 yrs later and he is going to be in jail..  The ultimate fall from grace is on the horizon hopefully.  

 

 Narcissist much...   

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9 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

People say wars are how Americans learn geography. It's probably the same with the big C. I got dinged (elsewhere) on the separate vote thing. Also, the constitution isn't written precisely. The separate vote thing is inferred. Does disqualification take 2/3s? No, it takes a simple majority because ... there is no because.

The distinction being made here is in the low integer multiples of RCHs. Rather than get caught up in constitutional minutia, it's better to take the big picture. Nancy's pissed and she wants Republican names written down for posterity. She's way too much of a realist to expect Republicans to Do The Right Thing. She just wants their signature on the The Wrong Thing.

But, but, but ... besides the fact that T has indeed broken his oath, the law, the office and almost the nation, which just screams for decisive legal action - besides all that, wouldn't playing the game in the "big picture" just be another shade of what McConnell and Team R have been doing the last four years?

The same shit, all over again, just with a different flavour? If this is the best they can serve, Team D might just as well go down the path Team R has taken, and noone would miss them.

You gotta do better than that. You can.

 

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12 minutes ago, Grog said:

But, but, but ... besides the fact that T has indeed broken his oath, the law, the office and almost the nation, which just screams for decisive legal action - besides all that, wouldn't playing the game in the "big picture" just be another shade of what McConnell and Team R have been doing the last four years?

The same shit, all over again, just with a different flavour? If this is the best they can serve, Team D might just as well go down the path Team R has taken, and noone would miss them.

You gotta do better than that. You can.

I completely agree with you but impeachment + conviction are essentially confidence votes by politicians. There's NOTHING legal about them. Legal is still in the cards and a LOT more so in a week or two. But don't expect ANYTHING from a Senate conviction vote. Think of that vote as a lottery ticket bought with spare change you found and picked up off the street.

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6 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

I completely agree with you but impeachment + conviction are votes by politicians. There's nothing legal about them. Legal is still in the cards and a LOT more so in a week or two. But don't expect ANYTHING for a Senate conviction vote. Think of that vote as a lottery ticket bought with spare change you picked up off the street.

So it's a gamble.

In this case I think the gamble is worth it, if only to go on record. The shit that T has been pulling for what seems more like a decade than a single four year term must be called and, if possible, sanctioned in the strongest possible way.

This could then be the crossroads to sanity.

I mean, seriously, who wants this political travesty keep going on?!

 

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2 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Whoa there, cowboy.

A failed conviction does not prove the Senate can uphold the law, and really there is no law with impeachment. It is more akin to a vote of confidence. By itself it carries no penalties besides removal from office.

He cannot challenge an impeachment conviction.

It's a little hard to suss out of the text but disqualification requires a second vote after conviction. Yes, that would happen if he got convicted since Republicans would want no part of him for the duration.

Criminal (once he's out of office) federal charges and state charges, and civil penalties are another matter. My guess is he invokes the Ken Lay / Jeffrey Epstein defense.

Congress can include the disqualification to hold federal office in the future, as well as removal from current office, in an impeachment conviction. And the impeachment trial can continue after his term has expired (Jan 20 ) 

Judgement in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgement and Punishment, according to Law.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Will democRATS go there?

Will Republicans join them? Those running for president in 2024 might like the idea of removing His ability to run again
 

Thoughts?

That's probably the only reason.  Without that an Independent run could result in a minority president.

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1 hour ago, Grog said:

So it's a gamble.

In this case I think the gamble is worth it, if only to go on record. The shit that T t has been pulling for what seems more like a decade than a single four year term must be called and, if possible, sanctioned in the strongest possible way.

This could then be the crossroads to sanity.

I mean, seriously, who wants this political travesty keep going on?!

 

The mad man doesn't deserve a capital letter at the front of his name

How can we not urge punishment for what the demented fool has done over the last two months?   Impeachment and conviction means that he becomes officially a non-player in future elections.  It appears that the Senate will have enough votes to convict, especially if Murkowski and/or Romney sign on.   

Throw the bum out. 

With his words, he aided and abetted the killing of a cop.

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

I completely agree with you but impeachment + conviction are essentially confidence votes by politicians. There's NOTHING legal about them. Legal is still in the cards and a LOT more so in a week or two. But don't expect ANYTHING from a Senate conviction vote. Think of that vote as a lottery ticket bought with spare change you found and picked up off the street.

Mostly true, up until he tries to file for candidacy for any future political campaign.  Then I'd pay big, big bucks to be the election registrar who tosses the paperwork back in his face.  That is the serious legal consequence of conviction.  

It is also still an open question if he is liable for libel suits from the likes of Dominion.  They have not ruled it out.  Impeachment would certainly be brought up during that trial.

 

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, Impeachment can demonstrate to the world that the US democracy can be self-healing.  That is the critical purpose for treating impeachment and conviction deadly seriously.  

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44 minutes ago, Cristoforo said:

Congress can include the disqualification to hold federal office in the future, as well as removal from current office, in an impeachment conviction. And the impeachment trial can continue after his term has expired (Jan 20 ) 

Yes, impeachment can continue after Jan 20. It could even be initiated after Jan 20 (!). 

Disqualification is a separate judgment made after conviction by the Senate alone and only requires a simple majority. So it isn't part of the impeachment articles although the recommendation can be include it (and did in 2019). Finding the exact language that says it's the Senate's prerogative alone is a little difficult but remember that disqualification is a penalty. This is pretty close:

Although an argument can be made that disqualification should nonetheless require a two-thirds vote,855 the Senate has determined that disqualification may be accomplished by a simple majority vote.

Footnote: The Senate imposed disqualification twice, on Judges Humphreys and Archbald. 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-2/section-4/judgment-removal-and-disqualification

 

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The House can’t vote on impeachment today because of the minimum number of two legislative days needed before a bill can receive a vote. Changing the schedule now to include the weekend requires unanimous consent. Something tells me this guy would object to unanimous consent:

image.png.ca0b3a5effaf149327a9c0c7a216b26d.png

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Nancy might only be creating a distraction to keep Trump away from the Red Button and thoughts of Nation Building in Iran.

I don’t like the idea of Pence being President. Rather a foot-in-the-door for a future white power theocracy.

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28 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

Nancy might only be creating a distraction to keep Trump away from the Red Button and thoughts of Nation Building in Iran.

I don’t like the idea of Pence being President. Rather a foot-in-the-door for a future white power theocracy.

I lived in her district for decades and I've been watching her since she was first elected to the House. She is very straightforward; she's patriotic and loyal; she avoids decisions she doesn't have to make; and she's good to her word. If she wants the asshole impeached, it's because she wants the asshole impeached and she wants everyone's John Hancock on it, for, against or present or absent. It's not a diversion.

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This will get your blood boiling...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/mike-lee-tommy-tuberville-trump-misdialed-capitol-riot/index.html

The effort by the White House to get Tuberville to delay certification of the votes provides insight into the President's thinking and priorities as a mob of his supporters lay siege to the iconic building. As the President worked to convince Tuberville to delay the process, he and other top White House officials did little to check in on Vice President Mike Pence while he and members of his family were inside the breached Capitol, a source close to the vice president told CNN.
Trump first called the personal cell phone of Lee, a Utah Republican, shortly after 2 p.m. ET. At that time the senators had been evacuated from the Senate floor and were in a temporary holding room, as a pro-Trump mob began breaching the Capitol.

 

 

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The Senate is a continuing body since only 1/3rd of the 100 change each two years  They can take up the trial on the Impeachment after the term ends since the "forever" ban on holding Federal office still applies. 

As of now Murkowski, Sasse and Romney are votes for conviction.  So that adds up to 53 votes with Orsoff and Warnock. 

Susan Collins will waffle and then say tRump has learned his lesson THIS time, for realz.

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8 hours ago, saxdog said:

Certainly not Senators Hawley and Cruz. They should head down into the bunker with Trump and take three Lugers along.

And have to learn to use 3 different guns?

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