Editor 700 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 The rule experts at the protest hearing must have had a wonderful time establishing who had rights in this Flying 15 contretemps. Was it Part 2, 11 (On the same tack, overlapped, windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat), or maybe this was a “not sail below proper course” situation? What think you? Title inspiration thanks to XTC. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snaggletooth 3,252 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Lookes to me uppere boate foulled the lowere boate. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heisenberg 22 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 There's no longer a "sail below your proper course" rule. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heisenberg 22 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 More facts would need to be established to truly know what transpired, but based on the information available: Both boats violated rule 14, avoiding contact. Windward did not "keep clear" of leeward. Leeward, based on their advanced angle of heel perhaps did not allow sufficient room and opportunity for windward to keep clear when leeward changed course. If these are the correct facts, leeward is penalized for not allowing windward room and opportunity to keep clear, and windward is exonerated from breach of rule 14 if no damage or injury occurred. Additional questions arise with respect to how the leeward overlap was established. If leeward established from clear astern within 2 boat-lengths, leeward was restricted from sailing above its proper course. Our game / rules are too complicated, but perhaps that's just the nature of the game. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lynch 9 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 This is the second time around for this crash, as I recall it made the front page a few months ago Is the ed checking on our recall or has his failed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
d'ranger 2,750 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 That is a demonstration of "a picture is worth a thousand words" which would be the minimum to get to a decision. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobBill 117 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 These are F15 keelers. assuming must have been former, and d'ranger makes a good point...seems to be familiar pic...but what do I know? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Senator Seditious Maximus 377 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 5 hours ago, Lynch said: This is the second time around for this crash, as I recall it made the front page a few months ago Is the ed checking on our recall or has his failed? he's suffering early-onset dementia and is repeating himself 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TJSoCal 141 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 6 hours ago, Heisenberg said: More facts would need to be established to truly know what transpired, but based on the information available: Both boats violated rule 14, avoiding contact. Windward did not "keep clear" of leeward. Leeward, based on their advanced angle of heel perhaps did not allow sufficient room and opportunity for windward to keep clear when leeward changed course. If these are the correct facts, leeward is penalized for not allowing windward room and opportunity to keep clear, and windward is exonerated from breach of rule 14 if no damage or injury occurred. Additional questions arise with respect to how the leeward overlap was established. If leeward established from clear astern within 2 boat-lengths, leeward was restricted from sailing above its proper course. Our game / rules are too complicated, but perhaps that's just the nature of the game. There's no "opportunity" any more either, and ROW only owes the keep clear boat room to keep clear initially on gaining ROW (rule 15) or if ROW is changing course (rule 16). It also looks as though 3695's pole may be in the water and she may have just crash-gybed, so this may have begun as a port-starboard. So not enough from this snapshot, I think, to say. Would need to collect more facts about what led up to the incident. Also possible exonerations for rule 14 violations (43.1(c) in the 2021-2024 rulebook. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snaggletooth 3,252 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, JimBowie said: 6 hours ago, Lynch said: This is the second time around for this crash, as I recall it made the front page a few months ago Is the ed checking on our recall or has his failed? he's suffering early-onset dementia and is repeating himself earley? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Senator Seditious Maximus 377 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 hours ago, Snaggletooth said: earley? That was me being nice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobBill 117 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Was here Jan 8. We been "Beaned?"* * Orson Bean, comic, reference. Dodger "knew..." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ROADKILL666 340 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Looks like a classic oh shit moment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
captkit 0 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 the boat on the left is on starboard tack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snaggletooth 3,252 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 So ist the oune on the ritte............. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobBill 117 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said: Looks like a classic oh shit moment Aye! But, one of these dodgers had to know he was doing wrong! Of course, being 15s, no doubt, speed meant fast happening and someone messed the deal...Wonder what the meeting turned up...and if truth ruled? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shanghaisailor 1,415 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 On 1/9/2021 at 3:10 AM, Lynch said: This is the second time around for this crash, as I recall it made the front page a few months ago Is the ed checking on our recall or has his failed? Yep - been up there before & if i recall quite a thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sail4beer 2,224 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Was there contact? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobot 1,961 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 On 1/8/2021 at 5:11 PM, TJSoCal said: There's no "opportunity" any more either, and ROW only owes the keep clear boat room to keep clear initially on gaining ROW (rule 15) or if ROW is changing course (rule 16). It also looks as though 3695's pole may be in the water and she may have just crash-gybed, so this may have begun as a port-starboard. So not enough from this snapshot, I think, to say. Would need to collect more facts about what led up to the incident. Also possible exonerations for rule 14 violations (43.1(c) in the 2021-2024 rulebook. Hey, hey.....hey, Mr. Serious answer dude, you're inside the "First ten posts are for giving the Ed shit" rule. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inshallah 21 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 As a former F15 sailor I can tell you it doesn't take a whole lot to broach especially in puffy conditions. Judging by position of the crew (oh shit!!!!!!) on the leeward boat I would say that the rudder has suddenly let go and up they went. Nowhere for 3496 to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobBill 117 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 We would take a heavy gust and boat would heel and automatically round up, as rudder lost it and loved the feature, but Inshallah, maketh perfect sense. And it happens so fargin fast. Trouble seems to be in a hearing, everyone lies...Which, maketh me wonder if pic was used as evidence of something not yet mentioned? Quote Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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