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Maybe Storming The Capitol Wasn't Such A Good Idea


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1 hour ago, dylan winter said:

 

Pics of her in front of smashed windows but she didn't know there was violence?

Lock her up!

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Some folks take great pride in their ignorance and go out of their way to flaunt it, even to exaggerate it. They like to show it off like they are wearing a lair of the latest Air Jordans. I don't get

You are talking about folks that were taking selfies, some with their company IDs hanging from their necks. Burner phones to cover their tracks?  I'm surprised they didn't order delivered pizzas

The judge was rather eloquent in his denial of bail.   https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/02/22/marion-county-couple-accused-of-plotting-with-oath-keepers-during-capitol-riot-denied-bai

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2 minutes ago, hobie1616 said:
23 minutes ago, Mark K said:

That spawned a thought. Biden should pardon all of the cases of that elk. Seriously. For them it really is a chronic case of acute stupid. They were lied to and they believed it. Clogging cells for decades with people like her is unnecessary and pointless, and a pardon from Biden would make them wonder if just maybe he doesn't have the horns on his head Sean Hannity tells them about. Bottom line her ask for a pardon shows she knows, now, that she is now a criminal which for her is a yuuuuge surprise.   

 This does not apply to those who were carrying cuffs, beat on someone, or there is evidence of planning to actually hang Pence and others. Rough guess is only 10-20% of that mob should be locked up.  

If Biden did cut the stoopid ones lose, there should be a lot of community service as part of the deal.  A lot of community service.

Civics education should be required.

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25 minutes ago, Mark K said:

That spawned a thought. Biden should pardon all of the cases of that elk. Seriously. For them it really is a chronic case of acute stupid. They were lied to and they believed it. Clogging cells for decades with people like her is unnecessary and pointless, and a pardon from Biden would make them wonder if just maybe he doesn't have the horns on his head Sean Hannity tells them about. Bottom line her ask for a pardon shows she knows, now, that she is now a criminal which for her is a yuuuuge surprise.   

 This does not apply to those who were carrying cuffs, beat on someone, or there is evidence of planning to actually hang Pence and others. Rough guess is only 10-20% of that mob should be locked up.  

Fuck that.

No Mercy.

I don't care if they were simply vacuous stupids - they made an organized and serious attempt to overthrow the government of the USA.

That would have fucked up the entire world had it succeeded.

The millions of their sympathizers out there need to get a BIG jolt of reality jammed into their simple minded alternative reality.

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No pardons by Biden. People died and we haven't even finished investigating. Lastly, if Shitstain wanted to pardon the elk then he will have had the opportunity.

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5 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

No pardons by Biden. People died and we haven't even finished investigating. Lastly, if Shitstain wanted to pardon the elk then he will have had the opportunity.

I'd pay money for a live feed of real estate agent Jenna Ryan waiting by the phone on Jan. 20th for her pardon.  The 12:01 PM meltdown should be epic.

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12 minutes ago, hobie1616 said:

If Biden did cut the stoopid ones lose, there should be a lot of community service as part of the deal.  A lot of community service.

Good idea but tricky. In our system the POTUS has the power to pardon but doesn't have to power to monkey around in court sentencing. My thought is their minds will be so blown by being let off a life-changing hook but a DemocRAT they will be as, or even more, contrite than they would be by having to pick up trash by the freeway for a month.  

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11 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Fuck that.

No Mercy.

I don't care if they were simply vacuous stupids - they made an organized and serious attempt to overthrow the government of the USA.

That would have fucked up the entire world had it succeeded.

The millions of their sympathizers out there need to get a BIG jolt of reality jammed into their simple minded alternative reality.

Prison could radicalize them and they won't be there forever. I assume most will be released in 10 years, maybe less. 

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No pardons.  Getting them off the street and into prisons where they can give themselves ballpoint tattoos and plot future rebellions among themselves and collaborating with the guards does have a downside.  

However, having demonstrated clearly that they are NOT part of a well-regulated militia, each sentence should carry a lifetime ban on owning firearms of any kind.  

Any early release should also be accompanied with an agreement to lifetime monitoring of all on-line communications.  

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5 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Good idea  they will be as, or even more, contrite than they would be by having to pick up trash by the freeway for a month.  

AYFKM?

People get much worse for drunk driving.

This was a real, serious, organized fascist coup attempt on the single most important government in the world.

This was not a routine protest that got out of hand.

Wake the fuck up.

Every single person involved should do serious prison time - I mean years.

If you want to radicalize them further, let them off lightly.

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5 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Prison could radicalize them and they won't be there forever. I assume most will be released in 10 years, maybe less. 

"Could" radicalize them? 

You mean beyond erecting gallows on the National Mall, invading the Capitol with weapons in hand, hunting Legislators and the VicePresident to take hostages, planting pipe bombs at the DNC and RNC headquarters, killing a cop...yeah, prison "could" radicalize them.  That's our real concern. 

 

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Trump’s Movement Was Never About Economic Anxiety. The DC Riot Proved It.

The mythology that the force compelling Americans to support Donald Trump was their economic anxiety — a fragile myth already called into doubt repeatedly over the last four years — was irrevocably shattered by last week’s raid on the Capitol as Trump beckoned his followers to march.

Rioters chanted, “Hang Mike Pence.” They built nooses. They graffitied “Murder the media.” They repeatedly called Black officers the n-word. One held as his banner the Confederate flag. One man allegedly threatened to kill Nancy Pelosi. The less extreme said they were there as patriots who “bleed red, white, and blue,” fighting to take back what was stolen from them.

And, they flew on private jets to and from.

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Baked Alaska gets his meringue browned.

Far-right activist ‘Baked Alaska’ is among the latest Capitol rioters to be arrested.

Anthime Joseph Gionet, a far-right media personality nicknamed “Baked Alaska” who is known for livestreaming himself participating in illegal activity, was arrested by the F.B.I. on Friday and accused of illegally storming the Capitol during the attack on the building by President Trump’s supporters earlier this month.

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

That spawned a thought. Biden should pardon all of the cases of that elk. Seriously. For them it really is a chronic case of acute stupid. They were lied to and they believed it. Clogging cells for decades with people like her is unnecessary and pointless, and a pardon from Biden would make them wonder if just maybe he doesn't have the horns on his head Sean Hannity tells them about. Bottom line her ask for a pardon shows she knows, now, that she is now a criminal which for her is a yuuuuge surprise.   

 This does not apply to those who were carrying cuffs, beat on someone, or there is evidence of planning to actually hang Pence and others. Rough guess is only 10-20% of that mob should be locked up.  

Its a parody account.

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

That spawned a thought. Biden should pardon all of the cases of that elk. Seriously. For them it really is a chronic case of acute stupid. They were lied to and they believed it. Clogging cells for decades with people like her is unnecessary and pointless, and a pardon from Biden would make them wonder if just maybe he doesn't have the horns on his head Sean Hannity tells them about. Bottom line her ask for a pardon shows she knows, now, that she is now a criminal which for her is a yuuuuge surprise.   

 This does not apply to those who were carrying cuffs, beat on someone, or there is evidence of planning to actually hang Pence and others. Rough guess is only 10-20% of that mob should be locked up.  

Its a parody account.

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29 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Prison could radicalize them and they won't be there forever. I assume most will be released in 10 years, maybe less. 

A very good point, and difficult to deal with.  Quite a lot of the homegrown 'islamist' terrorists in the UK have been radicalised in UK jails.

Just look how Abu Ghraib worked as well, though the torture side of that definitely accelerated that process.

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22 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

"Could" radicalize them? 

You mean beyond erecting gallows on the National Mall, invading the Capitol with weapons in hand, hunting Legislators and the VicePresident to take hostages, planting pipe bombs at the DNC and RNC headquarters, killing a cop...yeah, prison "could" radicalize them.  That's our real concern. 

 

It could well cement their views even further though, and putting all of them in together may make the less hardcore make a jump further. Its a fucker to deal with.

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2 minutes ago, mad said:

A very good point, and difficult to deal with.  Quite a lot of the homegrown 'islamist' terrorists in the UK have been radicalised in UK jails.

Just look how Abu Ghraib worked as well, though the torture side of that definitely accelerated that process.

Radicalized Karens 10 years from now won't be hot or wealthy enough to take seriously.

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30 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

AYFKM?

People get much worse for drunk driving.

This was a real, serious, organized fascist coup attempt on the single most important government in the world.

This was not a routine protest that got out of hand.

Wake the fuck up.

Every single person involved should do serious prison time - I mean years.

If you want to radicalize them further, let them off lightly.

I didn't see a real serious, organized coup.  I saw a disorganized mob that acted like a dog that just caught a car. A few tiny cells within it appear to me as ex-mil, but that's it. The vast majority were of the elk of Squatting Bull Guy.  As just one example of what organized looks like, examine the Beer Hall Putsch. This crowd? About as competent as a FOX News fact-checker.  

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59 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:
3 hours ago, dylan winter said:

 

Pics of her in front of smashed windows but she didn't know there was violence?

Lock her up!

She looks like Marjorie Taylor Greene 20 years and several hundred bottles later. 

200811-marjorie-greene-mc-1148_e5e884242

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13 minutes ago, mad said:

Its a parody account.

Really? One of those vids obviously was but the one I responded to appeared real. There are other of those loons begging Trump for a pardon so I change my comment to address them. To me most of those people were like a sports crowd. Mob mentality grabbed them by the pussy and made them do stuff which, in the light of a body cavity search, they may now view very differently. 

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13 minutes ago, mad said:

A very good point, and difficult to deal with.  Quite a lot of the homegrown 'islamist' terrorists in the UK have been radicalised in UK jails.

Just look how Abu Ghraib worked as well, though the torture side of that definitely accelerated that process.

In general pop I see them having no recourse BUT to join up with the Skinheads, Atomwaffen, et al. Hell, they may well double their numbers.  

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Lemme get this right. You’re worried about people who traveled cross country and stormed the Capitol after listening to a Nuremberg speech from their Dear Leader, erected a gallows, threw a fire extinguisher at a cop killing him, injured 50+ other cops, took along guns and zip ties, ..., you’re worried about radicalizing them.

Did I get that correct?

NB: their Dear Leader is still in the WH and wants a do over on the 20th. Should we pre-forgive any do overers because, gosh, liberals are supposed to be nice?

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33 minutes ago, Mark K said:

I didn't see a real serious, organized coup.  I saw a disorganized mob that acted like a dog that just caught a car. A few tiny cells within it appear to me as ex-mil, but that's it. The vast majority were of the elk of Squatting Bull Guy.  As just one example of what organized looks like, examine the Beer Hall Putsch. This crowd? About as competent as a FOX News fact-checker.  

I saw a small core real serious organised coup disguised and mingling in with a lot of people who had rioting on their mind, disguised and mingling in with thousands more people who thought they were on a protest march. The bigger the march, the greater the opportunity for creating mayhem and getting away with it.

Any person who breached the barriers outside knew they were committing an illegal act, which could only escalate to much worse things the further they went in.

The “honest “ marchers/protestors would have stopped at the barriers.

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4 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

I saw a small real serious organised coup disguised and mingling in with a lot of people who had rioting on their mind, disguised and mingling in with thousands more people who thought they were on a protest march. The bigger the march, the greater the opportunity for creating mayhem and getting away with it.

Any person who breached the barriers outside knew they were committing an illegal act, which could only escalate to much worse things the further they went in.

The “honest “ marchers/protestors would have stopped at the barriers.

Squatting Bull didn't stop, and he may well be honestly nuts. 

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13 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Lemme get this right. You’re worried about people who traveled cross country and stormed the Capitol after listening to a Nuremberg speech from their Dear Leader, erected a gallows, threw a fire extinguisher at a cop killing him, injured 50+ other cops, took along guns and zip ties, ..., you’re worried about radicalizing them.

Did I get that correct?

NB: their Dear Leader is still in the WH and wants a do over on the 20th. Should we pre-forgive any do overers because, gosh, liberals are supposed to be nice?

No, I said that anyone who did any violence should not be pardoned. 

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37 minutes ago, mad said:

It could well cement their views even further though, and putting all of them in together may make the less hardcore make a jump further. Its a fucker to deal with.

Their views are "well-cemented" and will be until they steadily age into being the crazy uncle to be avoided at Thanksgiving.  Ask any psychologist.  The hardest thing to change anyone's mind over is a delusion that they were conned into believing.  

Try convincing a Q-anon of the physical and logistical impossibility of operating a pedophilia ring made up of high level Democratic officials out of a the basement of a basement-less pizza joint in another state.  Logic has nothing to do with it.

Jail is punishment, not re-education.  Punishment is appropriate.

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41 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

Radicalized Karens 10 years from now won't be hot or wealthy enough to take seriously.

 

37 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

 

200811-marjorie-greene-mc-1148_e5e884242

Imagine Jenna with some Arian Brotherhood prison tats.  Maybe some Mike Tyson face ink. 

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3 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Squatting Bull didn't stop, and he may well be honestly nuts. 

He will have his day in court to prove that he is completely nuts and then be dealt with accordingly......

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3 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Jail is punishment, not re-education.  Punishment is appropriate.

Maybe model the jails for the rioters after the Chinese reeducation centers.

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48 minutes ago, Mark K said:

I didn't see a real serious, organized coup.  I saw a disorganized mob that acted like a dog that just caught a car. A few tiny cells within it appear to me as ex-mil, but that's it. The vast majority were of the elk of Squatting Bull Guy.  As just one example of what organized looks like, examine the Beer Hall Putsch. This crowd? About as competent as a FOX News fact-checker.  

Ask yourself where all of those professionally designed  identical, machine produced flags mounted on matching aluminum poles/weapons came from.  Who handed them out, who paid for them, who shipped them in from China?  

This doesn't look organized?

why-cell-networks-cut-out-at-the-us-capitol-riot_4bpr.1920.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Ask yourself where all of those professionally designed  identical, machine produced flags mounted on matching aluminum poles/weapons came from.  Who handed them out, who paid for them, who shipped them in from China?  

This doesn't look organized?

 

Ya gotta admit that the trumpaloons have a great sales department.

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46 minutes ago, Mark K said:

Really? One of those vids obviously was but the one I responded to appeared real. There are other of those loons begging Trump for a pardon so I change my comment to address them. To me most of those people were like a sports crowd. Mob mentality grabbed them by the pussy and made them do stuff which, in the light of a body cavity search, they may now view very differently. 

Pardons handed out like confetti are a pass to encourage pardonees and others to do it all again, or worse in the expectation of yet another pardon. Where is the limit?

Absolution payments to the pardoner is a good income stream.....

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Just now, hobie1616 said:

Ya gotta admit that the trumpaloons have a great sales department.

!0 to 1 odds that Ivanka is getting a decent percentage off the Chinese orders.  And I bet those flags are NOT on the tariff list.  Research project, anyone?

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56 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

She looks like Marjorie Taylor Greene 20 years and several hundred bottles later. 

200811-marjorie-greene-mc-1148_e5e884242

I wouldn’t mind treading on her. 

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5 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

Pardons handed out like confetti are a pass to encourage pardonees and others to do it all again, or worse in the expectation of yet another pardon. Where is the limit?

Absolution payments to the pardoner is a good income stream.....

Previously called "Indulgences".  Proved to be a great way to fund the growth of the largest, most successful and long-lasting corporation in history.  

st-peters-basilica-2.jpg.21c58ca98a74608c77aef5cb5fa0138f.jpg

(Hmmmm, there is a resemblance...Just what is it??)

 

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2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Previously called "Indulgences".  Proved to be a great way to fund the growth of the largest, most successful and long-lasting corporation in history.  

Perhaps we could get the lizard people to sack the Vatican.  We could make a movie.  "Aliens vs Predators."

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19 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Previously called "Indulgences".  Proved to be a great way to fund the growth of the largest, most successful and long-lasting corporation in history.  

st-peters-basilica-2.jpg.21c58ca98a74608c77aef5cb5fa0138f.jpg

(Hmmmm, there is a resemblance...Just what is it??)

 

Fantastic multiple income streams. You incite them to donate to pay for all the insurrection merchandise, and take a cut on the side, then distribute it, incite them some more and then when they get caught red handed, they can pay for their pardons....

What is the going rate for insurrection? Do you have to sign an NDA?

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

I think @mikewof would be the perfect candidate.  And he lives right nearby.  

Thank you for your consideration of this job opportunity. Unfortunately, my current duties of rubbing JBSF's nose in his remarkably inept ability to understand college football and the plight of the people he advocates bombing from remote control consume most of my time and I am unable to consider your offer.

Respectually, Mikewof.

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37 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Ask yourself 1. where all of those professionally designed  identical, machine produced flags mounted on matching aluminum poles/weapons came from.  2. Who handed them out, 3. who paid for them, 4. who shipped them in from China?  

This doesn't look organized?

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2 hours ago, Mark K said:

That spawned a thought. Biden should pardon all of the cases of that elk. Seriously. For them it really is a chronic case of acute stupid. They were lied to and they believed it. Clogging cells for decades with people like her is unnecessary and pointless, and a pardon from Biden would make them wonder if just maybe he doesn't have the horns on his head Sean Hannity tells them about. Bottom line her ask for a pardon shows she knows, now, that she is now a criminal which for her is a yuuuuge surprise.   

 This does not apply to those who were carrying cuffs, beat on someone, or there is evidence of planning to actually hang Pence and others. Rough guess is only 10-20% of that mob should be locked up.  

Agree with a caveat - make them commit to attending say 100 hours of civics classes and some form of logic/bullshit detection classes. Successful completion, get a pardon.

Locking up a bunch of deluded right wing fuckwits with lots of other right wing racist fuckwits is just going to make them cluster together in jail for mutual protection and reinforcement. You want to break that up at the start.

Same exception for those carrying weapons, cuffs etc - they went in with a purpose, they failed, no pardon for them.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

I didn't see a real serious, organized coup.  I saw a disorganized mob that acted like a dog that just caught a car. A few tiny cells within it appear to me as ex-mil, but that's it. The vast majority were of the elk of Squatting Bull Guy.  As just one example of what organized looks like, examine the Beer Hall Putsch. This crowd? About as competent as a FOX News fact-checker.  

Yeah, you're right 14 people and 4 cops were killed during the Beer Hall Putsch.

This bunch only killed 4 people and 2 cops.

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

In general pop I see them having no recourse BUT to join up with the Skinheads, Atomwaffen, et al. Hell, they may well double their numbers.  

They won't be going to a supermax.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah, you're right 14 people and 4 cops were killed during the Beer Hall Putsch.

This bunch only killed 4 people and 2 cops.

You want to follow that history/logic trail a bit further?

FKT

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46 minutes ago, hobie1616 said:

Maybe model the jails for the rioters after the Chinese reeducation centers.

Send them TO the Chinese reeducation centers.

Offer China a break on tariffs to take them.

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4 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

You want to follow that history/logic trail a bit further?

FKT

Do I need purple font with you?

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

Do I need purple font with you?

Yeah OK - I can't see the benefit of locking up most of those fuckwits, is all. It'll just make them worse, as it did the nascent Nazis following the beer hall pusch. There has to be a better way.

Breaking rocks in the hot sun for example. Or cleaning roadside trash while wearing a SEDITIONIST shirt in the morning and attending civics classes in the afternoon. Pretty much anything except locking them up with a bunch of like-minded people in an environment where they're *guaranteed* to cluster together with the worst white power racists already there for survival.

They need to by punished, for sure. But in a way that doesn't make things worse.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

No, I said that anyone who did any violence should not be pardoned. 

So storming the Capitol is OK, erecting a gallows is OK, bringing along guns + zip ties, that's OK? I'll tell you what. To show you that I'm not so hard hearted, maybe for the people who were just 'there' and didn't otherwise do anything which on a normal day would get their asses shot should they have been, I don't know, black or liberal or handicapped or poor, for them, I have special deal.

Let's consider CEO dude. At least somewhere in his fully developed orbitofrontal cortex, he has figured out that he did something wrong. In fact, his company has already fired his ass. But he has admitted what he did, and that what he did was the stupidest thing he's ever done. For lack of a better term, we'll say that CEO dude in some way has taken responsibility. For CEO dude, if he formally admits this and visits his two Senators and Critter and explains to them what he did and asks for this then we can talk about commutation. Cooperating testimony, community service, no voting and no guns (Hi Tom!) for the duration.

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1 hour ago, Sidecar said:

He will have his day in court to prove that he is completely nuts and then be dealt with accordingly......

I expect the tried and proven Tucker Carlson Defense: "Nobody could take the shit we spew seriously"

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Just now, Olsonist said:

So storming the Capitol is OK, erecting a gallows is OK, bringing along guns + zip ties, that's OK?

Yep - you have reading comprehension issues, for sure.

Or perhaps you could explain how "No, I said that anyone who did any violence should not be pardoned" equates to what you said above?

Help me out here - is there some higher logic I missed?

FKT

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58 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Ask yourself where all of those professionally designed  identical, machine produced flags mounted on matching aluminum poles/weapons came from.  Who handed them out, who paid for them, who shipped them in from China?  

This doesn't look organized?

why-cell-networks-cut-out-at-the-us-capitol-riot_4bpr.1920.jpg

The same could be said about Cleveland's Dog Pound. 

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3 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah OK - I can't see the benefit of locking up most of those fuckwits, is all. It'll just make them worse, as it did the nascent Nazis following the beer hall pusch. There has to be a better way.

Breaking rocks in the hot sun for example. Or cleaning roadside trash while wearing a SEDITIONIST shirt in the morning and attending civics classes in the afternoon. Pretty much anything except locking them up with a bunch of like-minded people in an environment where they're *guaranteed* to cluster together with the worst white power racists already there for survival.

They need to by punished, for sure. But in a way that doesn't make things worse.

FKT

O/K but make it 1000 hours, not 100.

And only for the people who stayed outside the barriers.

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5 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yep - you have reading comprehension issues, for sure.

Or perhaps you could explain how "No, I said that anyone who did any violence should not be pardoned" equates to what you said above?

Help me out here - is there some higher logic I missed?

FKT

"Storming the Capitol' is difficult to distinguish from tourism, especially if the doors are 'open'. Erecting a gallows is not violent. Bringing along guns and zip ties is not violent unless you use them. Is there something else I can help you with?

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

O/K but make it 1000 hours, not 100.

And only for the people who stayed outside the barriers.

Agree about the time but - if they stayed outside the barriers, they may well be deluded, but did their actions rise to a level that violated the 'peaceably assemble and ask for redress' right?

Tricky one, that.

FKT

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56 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

Pardons handed out like confetti are a pass to encourage pardonees and others to do it all again, or worse in the expectation of yet another pardon. Where is the limit?

Absolution payments to the pardoner is a good income stream.....

The key is Biden, not Trump, granting it. The propaganda these people have been subjected to has convinced them they are under attack. Biden pardoning a bunch (not all Olson!) of these clowns will cause a moment of cognitive dissonance in their belfries. De-programming is a bit like trying to fuck a porcupine, you have to do it slowly and carefully.  

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It must be weird to go home and back to your semi-normal life after being an actual law abiding protestor, as some were.  "Hey, Karen!  Where were you and Brandon the last few days?"  "uhhhhhh, Washington DC..." "well ok then." (Ponders if he should call the FBI)

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26 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah, you're right 14 people and 4 cops were killed during the Beer Hall Putsch.

This bunch only killed 4 people and 2 cops.

The key difference between the the Beer Hall Putsch and the Hold My Beer Putsch isn't the body count, it's that the former was successful. 

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1 minute ago, Olsonist said:

"Storming the Capitol' is difficult to distinguish from tourism, especially if the doors are 'open'. Erecting a gallows is not violent. Bring along guns and zip ties is not violent unless you use them. Is there anything else I can help you with?

The people that crossed the barriers are fair game. The others - dunno. Deluded fuckwits for sure but see my reply to sloopy. Did those actions fall outside their right to peaceably assemble and ask for redress?

I've my doubts about the peaceable bit if you bring weapons and I've no doubts at all if you cross a barrier line and enter a building while in company with armed people.

Point was, you were saying one thing that was totally non-responsive to what the first poster said. And you still can't acknowledge that - this is a diversion.

FKT

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11 minutes ago, Mark K said:

The key is Biden, not Trump, granting it. The propaganda these people have been subjected to has convinced them they are under attack. Biden pardoning a bunch (not all Olson!) of these clowns will cause a moment of cognitive dissonance in their belfries. De-programming is a bit like trying to fuck a porcupine, you have to do it slowly and carefully.  

I won't say that your argument has no merit. I will say that you are months, MONTHS, ahead of yourself. We aren't even in the Biden administration yet. Shitstain DOES want a do over. We haven't thoroughly investigated what even happened. There is a yuge cart that you're putting before a modest horse that hasn't even been harnessed yet. And pardon me, but pardon really is the wrong word you're looking for.

 

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1 minute ago, Olsonist said:

I won't say that your argument has no merit. I will say that you are months, MONTHS, ahead of yourself. We aren't even in the Biden administration. Shitstain DOES want a do over. We haven't thoroughly investigated what even happened. There is a yuge cart that you're putting before a horse that hasn't even gotten harnessed yet. And pardon me, but pardon really is the wrong word you're looking for.

I'm not saying it has to happen today. Their trials are months, if not a year or more away. Plenty of time will be needed to sort out individual motivation. 

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2 minutes ago, Mark K said:

The key difference between the the Beer Hall Putsch and the Hold My Beer Putsch isn't the body count, it's that the former was successful. 

I think your underselling the seriousness of this insurrection (yes it was an insurrection).

Good recap in the Atlantic.  That it couldn’t intimately succeed isn’t the point.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/it-was-much-worse-it-looked/617693/
 

Once inside, some putschists were prepared. They came with schematics and maps of the building, and set about their work with purpose. Some wore tactical gear and carried flex ties, which would have been useful for kidnapping and hostage-taking. If not for the quick thinking of the Capitol Police officer Eugene Goodman, who drew a column away from the Senate floor, they might have walked through the unlocked doors and into a chamber still filled with lawmakers.

Only on Friday did it become clear how much danger Pence had been in. Secret Service officers whisked Pence and his family to a hideaway in the Capitol—but just one minute before Goodman made his stand, and only about 100 feet from the stairs up which the officer was chased by the mob, according to the Post.

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Agree about the time but - if they stayed outside the barriers, they may well be deluded, but did their actions rise to a level that violated the 'peaceably assemble and ask for redress' right?

Tricky one, that.

FKT

Not really - when they are rioting 10 feet away it ain't peaceable any longer and a peaceable protestor leaves.

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6 minutes ago, Mark K said:

The key difference between the the Beer Hall Putsch and the Hold My Beer Putsch isn't the body count, it's that the former was successful. 

Well, a decade later anyway.

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6 minutes ago, roundthebuoys said:

It must be weird to go home and back to your semi-normal life after being an actual law abiding protestor, as some were.  "Hey, Karen!  Where were you and Brandon the last few days?"  "uhhhhhh, Washington DC..." "well ok then." (Ponders if he should call the FBI)

Going to be awkward. There will be looks, snide comments, and of course those who try to work phrases like "trial by combat" "I'll be there with you" and "breaking and entering" into conversations. 

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9 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

I think your underselling the seriousness of this insurrection (yes it was an insurrection).

Good recap in the Atlantic.  That it couldn’t intimately succeed isn’t the point.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/it-was-much-worse-it-looked/617693/
 

Once inside, some putschists were prepared. They came with schematics and maps of the building, and set about their work with purpose. Some wore tactical gear and carried flex ties, which would have been useful for kidnapping and hostage-taking. If not for the quick thinking of the Capitol Police officer Eugene Goodman, who drew a column away from the Senate floor, they might have walked through the unlocked doors and into a chamber still filled with lawmakers.

Only on Friday did it become clear how much danger Pence had been in. Secret Service officers whisked Pence and his family to a hideaway in the Capitol—but just one minute before Goodman made his stand, and only about 100 feet from the stairs up which the officer was chased by the mob, according to the Post.

 

 

 

 

I'm aware of that. Everybody in the small knot of people who were headed directly to where Pence was and asking for him should be ineligible for parole. Those boys rate special attention. 

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Just LOL if you don't think that BIDEN pardoning the people who were trying to violently deny his election would be seen by them as anything other than weakness ("we tried to coup this guy and he pardoned us, LOL").

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3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

  However, having demonstrated clearly that they are NOT part of a well-regulated militia, each sentence should carry a lifetime ban on owning firearms of any kind.  

Every felony conviction,  meaning every conviction for a crime punishable by a year or more in prison - even if less than a year is imposed, carries that consequence. 

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46 minutes ago, Mark K said:

The key is Biden, not Trump, granting it. The propaganda these people have been subjected to has convinced them they are under attack. Biden pardoning a bunch (not all Olson!) of these clowns will cause a moment of cognitive dissonance in their belfries. De-programming is a bit like trying to fuck a porcupine, you have to do it slowly and carefully.  

I predict it will just prove to them that there was nothing really wrong with it in the first place.

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13 minutes ago, Mike G said:
1 hour ago, Mark K said:

The key is Biden, not Trump, granting it. The propaganda these people have been subjected to has convinced them they are under attack. Biden pardoning a bunch (not all Olson!) of these clowns will cause a moment of cognitive dissonance in their belfries. De-programming is a bit like trying to fuck a porcupine, you have to do it slowly and carefully.  

I predict it will just prove to them that there was nothing really wrong with it in the first place.

Is there a provision in law that they can be stripped of citizenship?

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

De-programming is a bit like trying to fuck a porcupine, you have to do it slowly and carefully.  

It's more difficult with some than with others ...

If the adherent is already in the fringe there is a chance. If the adherent is part of the mainstream, then their affliction isn't viewed as an program at all, but rather a point of integrity. It takes decades to undo that kind of kind of programming ...

 

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15 minutes ago, Mike G said:

I predict it will just prove to them that there was nothing really wrong with it in the first place.

If Trump were to pardon them that would be the case. These clowns need a few weeks of letting the thought they really might have to serve time sink in...and then get pardoned. After that happens Hannity et al's sliming of Biden just won't be the same. However the target is the larger. It's all those others who are being led around by the nose with abject hatred of Biden and anything with a D after it. Trump not doing shit and Biden pardoning many would screw with that a wee bit. It's a bit of hate the game not the player. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, mikewof said:

It's more difficult with some than with others ...

If the adherent is already in the fringe there is a chance. If the adherent is part of the mainstream, then their affliction isn't viewed as an program at all, but rather a point of integrity. It takes decades to undo that kind of kind of programming ...

 

The male porcupines are especially difficult. 

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I don't know why people on this forum get so preoccupied with pardoning these insurrectionists.  Is it because it's a forum with predominantly white, older people with money who identify with some of these folks even if they're not Trumpists?  The damage done by showing these people there are few or no consequences for this kind of seditious activity and thus a lack of deterrent far outweighs any benefit.  You think you're going to win over Trump fanatics by not making them pay for what they've done?  Do you think that realtor who flew in on the private plane is going to give up supporting her fascist daddy if you treat her with kid gloves?  What naievete.

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5 minutes ago, BrickTopHarry said:

I don't know why people on this forum get so preoccupied with pardoning these insurrectionists.  Is it because it's a forum with predominantly white, older people with money who identify with some of these folks even if they're not Trumpists?  The damage done by showing these people there are few or no consequences for this kind of seditious activity and thus a lack of deterrent far outweighs any benefit.  You think you're going to win over Trump fanatics by not making them pay for what they've done?  Do you think that realtor who flew in on the private plane is going to give up supporting her fascist daddy if you treat her with kid gloves?  What naievete.

I don't think that's it at all.

The point is to let a few basic facts sink in. They've been living on delusions a long time. Having a judge tell you "You're going to jail for a long time" has a way of sweeping away a lot of bullshit. Trump does nothing to help them. Biden does.

It's not "treating them with kid gloves" it's pulling the plug on their demonization.

Frankly I think it would be better to just strip them of citizenship. Let them sweat about having their kids thrown in cages for a while

- DSK

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14 minutes ago, BrickTopHarry said:

I don't know why people on this forum get so preoccupied with pardoning these insurrectionists.  Is it because it's a forum with predominantly white, older people with money who identify with some of these folks even if they're not Trumpists?  The damage done by showing these people there are few or no consequences for this kind of seditious activity and thus a lack of deterrent far outweighs any benefit.  You think you're going to win over Trump fanatics by not making them pay for what they've done?  Do you think that realtor who flew in on the private plane is going to give up supporting her fascist daddy if you treat her with kid gloves?  What naievete.

Depends on if one thinks all those people are inherently dangerous criminals or have been fooled.  

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The last few days have been interesting on PA.  Likeminded people disagreeing respectfully and far from likeminded people agreeing or disagreeing respectfully.  I would imagine it's how it would have been post 9/11, at least for a few weeks.  I think it shows how big of a moment the insurrection was.  I mean fucking with each other is part of the PA charm, but it is "refreshing". 

It's also clear that alt-dog is on q-island all by himself no matter what so fuck him.  Fucking weasel. 

Kumbaya motherfuckers.

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