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well my trusty 20 year old 6 gal shop vac  died a magic smoke death as i'm guessing a motor bearing gave up the ghost...   so i'm in the market to  replace,  5-10gal and less than a small fortune.   i see the shop vac company has gone out of business closing down last Sept..  shame...   so what do y'all recommend for basic wet / dry use?  one thing though, it's gotta suck...

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Whatever you get, get a dust separator that mounts on a 5 gallon bucket. You'll almost never have to change filters, and will keep full suction for much, much longer

 

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12 minutes ago, cyclone said:

Fein Turbo I or II

uh, let's keep this around $100..    I'm still out of work...  

on another note,  I see that a chinese company just recently bought Shop-Vac and is re-openning the Pa factory, rehiring laid off workers..

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Whatever you get, get a dust separator that mounts on a 5 gallon bucket. You'll almost never have to change filters, and will keep full suction for much, much longer

 

Has anyone tried these with bottom paint dust? I finally got one in the woodshop and it works great. I have a hot date with a bottom job this spring and am waffling on whether to drag it up.

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2 minutes ago, penumbra said:

Has anyone tried these with bottom paint dust? I finally got one in the woodshop and it works great. I have a hot date with a bottom job this spring and am waffling on whether to drag it up.

I've not done it, but I use mine ALL the time. On everything. Bandsaw, planer, generic detritus, fairing, etc. I do still occasionally change my filters as the pores to get clogged, but the bag is never full

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29 minutes ago, penumbra said:

Has anyone tried these with bottom paint dust? I finally got one in the woodshop and it works great. I have a hot date with a bottom job this spring and am waffling on whether to drag it up.

Put a bag in it, works fine.

And put 2 hoses together for reach.

 

Screenshot_20210114-172627.png

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I've been using a dust separator on bottom paint for a number of years.  Very happy with it.  Pro - basically never clogs, at least not for several years at a time.  Con - gives you an additional bucket to work around.  My experience was a basic shop vac filter clogged beyond use frequently.  Bags recommended by See Level are a dramatic improvement and I recommend them.  The separator takes it to the final level.  No clogs.  Relatively easy to clean up. 

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Thanks, guys. My old vac can't accept bags, which was one of the reasons I was thinking of the separator, but the separator with a bag in it would be even better as I wouldn't need to buy a new vac.

 

 

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My recommendation for a bottom job is buy some Husky thing at Home Depot, and throw it away when you are done with your bottom. It'll never be the same. Costs about the same as a quart of bottom paint. 

I've never been happy with anything that said Shop Vac on it. They don't suck, which in this case is bad. Craftsman used to be reliable 20 years ago, but not anymore. Some models are OK, some are not. This one works pretty well. Many of the others do not. I do love the "peak HP" nomenclature. There is one very similar looking with the Husky name, probably built in the same factory, yet doesn't work nearly as well. 

For use on the boat, I've been quite impressed with the Milwaukee battery powered one. It isn't exactly like a Las Vegas hooker, but not horrible, and the portability makes it very useful. 

Another useful one is the Home Depot Bucket Head, goes on a 5 gallon bucket. It even has a cult following with 3D printed cyclone separators etc. I've used one to suck up oil and coolant routinely, must be 8 years old now and can't kill it. 

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I recently got a Karcher like the pic.

Quiet, back flush on the filter, blower port, variable suction - maxed out it will hold a drywall sander on the wall.

Got it for free from Airmiles but well worth the couple of hundred retail price.

I've had a bunch of wet/dry vacs over the years and this one stands alone.

https://www.amazon.ca/Karcher-Multi-Purpose-Vacuum-Cleaner-Space-Saving/dp/B01ABIYV8C/ref=asc_df_B01ABIYV8C/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292927296143&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16837351767675183702&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1001975&hvtargid=pla-568443931805&psc=1

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your shop vac gave you great service.  Why not another considering the price.

I use a shop vac with the drywall bags. They cost twice as much as the regular bags , but they protect the shopvac.

At my last club they had vacs and sanders for members to use for doing bottoms.  By the end of the season the vacs were toast as the dust with high copper bottom paint took out the motors.  The drywall bags help a great deal to protect the vacuum.

 

If you get a dust catcher, look at the dust deputy.  I bought the Home Depot version as it was right there.  It works, but only gets about 75% of the dust.  with the drywall bag it does a decent job but I would not say it is operating room quality...  Amazing how much weight comes off the hull when you sand off the paint and barrier coat.

 

For a hose, I love the one I got on amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08965YPDG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

flexible, study, and it comes with lots of adapters to hook up to your sander.

 

and if you want to go first class, get a vacumn switch.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085NH2LC9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As you press the trigger on your sander, it will turn on the vacuum on whatever you gave for a delay (easier on highly loaded yard circuit breakers) and when you release the trigger, it will continue to let the vac run to suck the last of the dust out of the hoses.

This in conjunction with Mirka sanding disks gets most that nasty stuff into a container for disposal instead of on you and the ground.

 

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Biggest question is what is your price point and how do you plan on using it? If your looking to spend $150 and plan on dragging it down stairs go get a Rigid at Home Depot. For general carpentry, this with a HEPA filter and a pre filter from a Dust Deputy (or similar pre filter) will last you for a long time. If you plan on doing bottoms and have a Fein/Festool already then get the vac for your tool.  

FYI, I've used my Rigid 6.5 HP vac HEPA filter with a Dust Deputy connected to a 6" Rigid sander to do a few bottoms. Yes it's heavier  but it was also inexpensive and took less time. I was amazed at how much debris was in the bottom of the 5 gallon pail and how little was on the filter/in the vac. 

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Every couple years I buy whatever is on sale Black Friday. They work until they don’t. 
 

My favorites are the 5.5 to 6.5 Hp vacs on as small a container as possible. 
How often does anybody actually fill up a shop vac??  Who wants to lug around a great big bulky tank that never gets used?? 

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21 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

My favorites are the 5.5 to 6.5 Hp vacs ....

Noting that 6.5 hp requires at least 44 amps from a 110V outlet (which are typically limited to 15), and that a 6.5 hp continuous duty electric motor weighs around 200 lbs. 

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9 minutes ago, DDW said:
21 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

My favorites are the 5.5 to 6.5 Hp vacs ....

Noting that 6.5 hp requires at least 44 amps from a 110V outlet (which are typically limited to 15), and that a 6.5 hp continuous duty electric motor weighs around 200 lbs. 

There are horses and there are horses.

Five Fun Facts about the Miniature Horse

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I have bought three Fien tools, the shop vac 6" random orbital and multi tool.  By far they are the best power tools I have ever purchased.  The multi finally died after many years, but was still in the rebuild possible mode so I gave it to a friend, the sander is on third set of brushes and I've lost track of backing pads.  The shop vac finally died in mexico, probably the power from the yard smoked the motor.  I abused it to no end and it was the absolute best shop vac I have ever had, super quiet lots of power.  On the ships in layup periods shop vacs are consumables.  I have yet to see a brand even close to the fein.  I have a rigid now as it's all that was available but they are crazy loud and don't really work that well.  For the money and longevity I would go with a fien for sure.  Festool is probably the same quality but I'm not sure it would take the abuse.

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It’s not super mobile, but after years of dropping thousands on vacs for my detailing shop I now buy two 6.5 gallon $150 Home Depot specials, strap them together with a ratchet strap and plumb the hoses into one with pvc. Twice the suction. Replace one at a time as they burn out. 

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2 hours ago, DDW said:

Noting that 6.5 hp requires at least 44 amps from a 110V outlet (which are typically limited to 15), and that a 6.5 hp continuous duty electric motor weighs around 200 lbs. 

peak vs continuous duty so not real but bigger higher rated ones are the best suckers older craftsman are decent as are ridgid 

I see a vac around glass dust as a disposable item and like the older ones better USA made then the newer china stuff

so I buy good ones at yard sales after a test to hear it run and check the temps hot or noise earns a pass but a good big one are mostly 20 or less

keep a spare as they do die from abuse I give them

my most frequent use is sucking the koi crap and algae out of the pool or bailing trailer boats both tend to test the hoses to failure from collapse movents

so a strong hose is a good thing

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I have a 40 year old Craftsman that has so much suction the regulators would consider it dangerous today. It will suck up a 5 gal bucket of 3/4" gravel or 10 lbs of 12p nails in seconds. Get it near rags, large bolts, small pets, and they are instantly gone. In a battle it will suck a Shop Van inside out. The current offerings are lame by comparison. They lost the formula for making these more than 20 years ago. 

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1 hour ago, nota said:
4 hours ago, DDW said:

Noting that 6.5 hp requires at least 44 amps from a 110V outlet (which are typically limited to 15), and that a 6.5 hp continuous duty electric motor weighs around 200 lbs. 

peak vs continuous duty so not real

740 watts is a real horsepower.

Look at the amperage and calculate the real HP.

I've seen 2 amp motors called "1 1/2 HP".

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Agree with the Craftsman vac. Had mine for 25 years. I replaced the motor once. Will suck a golf ball through a 40 ft garden hose :-)

Since I live in New Zealand I have run mine on a transformer for the last 17 years. It is still the best vacuum (suction wise)I have used here and I am a builder that works with a lot of people that have "other vaccumes"

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Of the 13 shop vacs I own, that old Craftsman is the most powerful by a wide margin. It is a noisy beast. The Fein is probably the next best, and relatively quiet too. The best value are the Home Depot Bucket heads, though less so now they've raised the price to over $20. 

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On 1/16/2021 at 9:23 PM, DDW said:

Of the 13 shop vacs I own, that old Craftsman is the most powerful by a wide margin. It is a noisy beast. The Fein is probably the next best, and relatively quiet too. The best value are the Home Depot Bucket heads, though less so now they've raised the price to over $20. 

Yea, the Dust Topper is $53..... I made my own for about $5 using the double bucket method:

 

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Decibels. Cheap vacs are like jet engines. 

Cheap vacs are also like computer printers. The units are disposable inexpensive garbage. The company makes their money selling the bags or cartridges for insane amounts of cash. 
 

What is the bag to unit cost ratio?

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My ShopVac shit itself on Sunday. Went local and only Craftsman. Not crazy about what I believe to be a proprietary filter. Nice unit and has the tool storage built in. I am all about the Feon 6" DA, and when used with the cyclonic dust collector, you can do a bottom in a dress suit. The one I own is the Dust Deputy.  They instruct you to run a ground wire from one of the screws. My wire is attached to a fender washer that lays on the ground. It collector is quite capable of givint you a pretty good bump from static charge.

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3 hours ago, Sea Scouter said:

My ShopVac shit itself on Sunday. Went local and only Craftsman. Not crazy about what I believe to be a proprietary filter. Nice unit and has the tool storage built in. I am all about the Feon 6" DA, and when used with the cyclonic dust collector, you can do a bottom in a dress suit. The one I own is the Dust Deputy.  They instruct you to run a ground wire from one of the screws. My wire is attached to a fender washer that lays on the ground. It collector is quite capable of givint you a pretty good bump from static charge.

hey sea scouter,   i'm one too,  Ship 104 ,  NJ...

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On 1/14/2021 at 2:29 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

i see the shop vac company has gone out of business closing down last Sept

Damn.  That's a bummer I have had great luck their products.  I have one large at home and one small on boat.  Both have the pleated filter and high efficiency filter bags.  It was nice to not exhaust dust back into the space you were working.  Especially when sanding FG or wood.  I guess when these die I will be able to rationalize the big bucks for a festool or similar dust collector.

I made one of the cheap 5 gal cyclone collectors and it prevented pushing debris into the shop vac filter bag.

 

 

 

  

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7 hours ago, yoyo said:

Damn.  That's a bummer I have had great luck their products.  I have one large at home and one small on boat.  Both have the pleated filter and high efficiency filter bags.  It was nice to not exhaust dust back into the space you were working.  Especially when sanding FG or wood.  I guess when these die I will be able to rationalize the big bucks for a festool or similar dust collector.

I made one of the cheap 5 gal cyclone collectors and it prevented pushing debris into the shop vac filter bag.

 

 

 

  

you missed a later post,  bought out by a chinese company, they re-opened the factory in PA, hired back previous workers and shipping again..

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10 hours ago, yoyo said:

Damn.  That's a bummer I have had great luck their products.  I have one large at home and one small on boat.  Both have the pleated filter and high efficiency filter bags.  It was nice to not exhaust dust back into the space you were working.  Especially when sanding FG or wood.  I guess when these die I will be able to rationalize the big bucks for a festool or similar dust collector.

I made one of the cheap 5 gal cyclone collectors and it prevented pushing debris into the shop vac filter bag.

 

 

 

  

$35 plus your time to build it.

You can pick this up for 50 bucks and snap it onto any bucket and go to town.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dustopper-High-Efficiency-Dust-Separator-12-in-Dia-with-2-5-in-Hose-36-in-Long-HD12/302643445

What is your time worth to construct that thing?

It also has a baffle inside to help keep the dust in the bucket and not your vac.

 

Just cleaned my shopvac after tearing off the bottom of the boat to do a blister repair job and then fairing the hull.

Took 2 gallons of fine (40 & 80 grit) barrier coat and epoxy filler dust out of bucket.

Drywall bag in vac was about 1/3rd full and starting to loose suction. Replacing the bag restored the suction.

and the inside of the shop vac?   Clean and dust free.

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On 1/14/2021 at 6:29 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

well my trusty 20 year old 6 gal shop vac  died a magic smoke death as i'm guessing a motor bearing gave up the ghost...   so i'm in the market to  replace,  5-10gal and less than a small fortune.   i see the shop vac company has gone out of business closing down last Sept..  shame...   so what do y'all recommend for basic wet / dry use?  one thing though, it's gotta suck...

If all you need is a wet dry shop vac for general shop tasks  , go cheap and cheerful  at the big box store 

if you need a dust extraction vac to use with power tools like a random orbital  you need to upgrade and use a wet dry vac designed for dust extraction 

a decent dust extraction vac is made be Fein 

https://www.amazon.com/Turbo-Vacuum-Cleaner-Gallon-1100W/dp/B00K69ILFQ

the basic model is fine , order an extra length of hose and some spare filters 

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9 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

you missed a later post,  bought out by a chinese company, they re-opened the factory in PA, hired back previous workers and shipping again..

Thanks I forgot about that.  Surprised their website is down.  

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6 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

$35 plus your time to build it.

You can pick this up for 50 bucks and snap it onto any bucket and go to town.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Dustopper-High-Efficiency-Dust-Separator-12-in-Dia-with-2-5-in-Hose-36-in-Long-HD12/302643445

What is your time worth to construct that thing?

It also has a baffle inside to help keep the dust in the bucket and not your vac.

Thanks - I don't remember seeing one of those being available when I threw one together.  I already had everything on hand and it was quick and easy. 

Not sure how much better the baffle is.  I've checked and most everything stays in the bucket.

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thanks for all the help and suggestions,   i ended up picking up a 12 gal vacmaster beast from HD for $99 which is about $30 cheaper than most other places...  i was going to get the 5 gal beast, but when i went by northern tools it looked tiny and when I went to order HD was out of stock online..   turns out the 12 gal without the wheels fits perfectly under my bench where the shop vac was and in fact fits nicer...  it's  light  at <15lbs so no worries about the wheels and it has a drain in the tub which my old one didn't have.... at 1400watts it seems it will have enough power..

now to find ways to hook it up to the various sanders..

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On 1/22/2021 at 9:10 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

thanks for all the help and suggestions,   i ended up picking up a 12 gal vacmaster beast from HD for $99 which is about $30 cheaper than most other places...  i was going to get the 5 gal beast, but when i went by northern tools it looked tiny and when I went to order HD was out of stock online..   turns out the 12 gal without the wheels fits perfectly under my bench where the shop vac was and in fact fits nicer...  it's  light  at <15lbs so no worries about the wheels and it has a drain in the tub which my old one didn't have.... at 1400watts it seems it will have enough power..

now to find ways to hook it up to the various sanders..

btw this vacuum sucks balls...     balls, like in golf balls through a garden hose...  me likeee..

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41 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

btw this vacuum sucks balls...     balls, like in golf balls through a garden hose...  me likeee..

Love mine too. When I first got the Vacmaster I put a HEPA filter on it and it's great except that it tends to clog up when vacuuming up lots of fine dust. Though it's easy to clean, at the urging of this thread I got that Home Depot bucket head dust separator, which seems to work nicely.

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57 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

btw this vacuum sucks balls...     balls, like in golf balls through a garden hose...  me likeee..

Literally. Wifey put one under the xmas tree for me many years ago. Of course, being me, I turned it on, sucked up some discarded wrappings then pointed it at the tree. A half dozen glass ornaments were immediately sucked in and the kids laughed for hours about the expression on my face. If definitely sucks balls.

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On 1/16/2021 at 10:14 AM, DDW said:

Noting that 6.5 hp requires at least 44 amps from a 110V outlet (which are typically limited to 15), and that a 6.5 hp continuous duty electric motor weighs around 200 lbs. 

Long-standing source of amusement. You know how they get that HP rating, right? They hook the motor to about an 80A circuit, get it spinning fast, then progressively clamp the shaft. The current recorded just as the motor vanishes in a reek of burning magnet wire  is recorded, multiplied by a somewhat optimistic line voltage, and there's your Peak HP.:lol:

My hoary and venerable 16gal Craftsman vac recently died in similar fashion. I used it for secondary chip collection on the (true!) 3hp shaper, and the vac motor bearing finally seized after maybe 18 years of loyal service. At first I thought the shaper motor had croaked, but it was the dying vac dragging one pole of the shop service into the pit. Replaced it with a VacMaster, but haven't used that much yet.

My jobsite vac is this little Rigid, which is great. Stable, easy to carry up a ladder, good suction if you keep the filter cleared of chips. On a boat, it fits between the settees and on a cockpit bench. Low profile does mean the pleated filter get buried quickly, tho. Not good for shaper shavings. (FWIW, I completely filled that big Craftsman vac with shavings at least three times when raising door panels for typical kitchen cabinets. That's with a 3hp stationary dust collector doing most of the  extraction. Big curly shavings.)

Our favorite vac for boat work is a cheaper version of this garage vac, which we early on hung off a bulkhead. Despite the relatively small cannister, it'll go quite a long time between empties. It'll let you know when it's clogged. Hose is long, anti-static, and super-snaky.

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I have the Craftsman version of that Rigid (these are all made in the same factory nowadays) on the sailboat.  I took the wheels off which makes it smaller and less likely to commit itself to the deep. It is a pretty good vacuum for what it is. I don't think Craftsman sells that version anymore. 

You should have kept the 16 gallon Craftsman and replaced the motor. They don't make them like that anymore. 

The HP thing used to be a thing in compressors too, but the FTC finally came down on them. Sometimes you'll see advertising verbiage like "1.5 HP, develops 5 HP". Reminds me of electric outboards. 

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1 hour ago, DDW said:

I have the Craftsman version of that Rigid (these are all made in the same factory nowadays) on the sailboat.  I took the wheels off which makes it smaller and less likely to commit itself to the deep. It is a pretty good vacuum for what it is. I don't think Craftsman sells that version anymore. 

You should have kept the 16 gallon Craftsman and replaced the motor. They don't make them like that anymore. 

The HP thing used to be a thing in compressors too, but the FTC finally came down on them. Sometimes you'll see advertising verbiage like "1.5 HP, develops 5 HP". Reminds me of electric outboards. 

Searched for motor replacement -- could not find. Also, when the bearing seized, certain plastic internal parts ... liquified.

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1 hour ago, DDW said:

 

I have the Craftsman version of that Rigid (these are all made in the same factory nowadays) on the sailboat.  I took the wheels off which makes it smaller and less likely to commit itself to the deep.

 

Ridgid makes a version of this that is rectangular and looks like a toolbox. No wheels.  All packs into itself: 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/100638389

That has become my most used vac because it is so easy to move around to bring to the boat. 

I’d like a Fein as my basement vac, but my old Shopvac has to die first and that doesn’t seem to be happening. 

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8 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

My jobsite vac is this little Rigid, which is great. Stable, easy to carry up a ladder, good suction if you keep the filter cleared of chips. On a boat, it fits between the settees and on a cockpit bench. Low profile does mean the pleated filter get buried quickly, tho. Not good for shaper shavings. (FWIW, I completely filled that big Craftsman vac with shavings at least three times when raising door panels for typical kitchen cabinets. That's with a 3hp stationary dust collector doing most of the  extraction. Big curly shavings.)

Interesting, I have the smaller brother and it's utter shite. I wonder if mine's defective, since it struggles to do much of anything. Far less suction than even my cheap household vacuum. I've tried bags, filters, and even testing it with nothing and it just doesn't move enough air to suck worth a damn.

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3 hours ago, Alex W said:

Ridgid makes a version of this that is rectangular and looks like a toolbox. No wheels.  All packs into itself: 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/100638389

That has become my most used vac because it is so easy to move around to bring to the boat. 

I’d like a Fein as my basement vac, but my old Shopvac has to die first and that doesn’t seem to be happening. 

Wow - it makes 5.0 HP too!

I did buy the Milwaukee battery powered shop vac, expecting to be utterly underwhelmed as I have been on all battery powered vacs (yep, even Dison @ $500). But it actually is pretty good for what it is, all packs into itself really, and no cord. You aren't going to suck up 20 lbs of 16p nails like my old Craftsman, but it is soooo portable (no cord!) that I use it a lot on the boat where it lives. 

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