**ONTOIT**

Dean Barker's Future

Will this be Dean Barkers last Americas Cup campaign as Helmsman?  

98 members have voted

  1. 1. Interested to get the flavor from the SA community on Dean Barker's future: Dean Barker has been around the AM scene for 20 years now, hasn't really been successful as Helmsman. Do we think this is his last campaign on the Helm?

    • Yes, he's a trier, but just doesn't seem to have the Nuts to take a team all the way! PS: he's a disaster
    • No, he's still got something to give, stop picking on him! PS: technically he 'won' the 2000 cup race that mattered
    • Depends on the result in this Cup


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Seriously interested in thoughts from SA posters.....

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By age alone yes. Jimmy and Ben are in the same age range...... 

New blood. 

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8 minutes ago, NZL4EVER said:

New blood. 

Agreed. Apparent wind sailing is not a game for middle-aged, or older folks. 

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13 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Agreed. Apparent wind sailing is not a game for middle-aged, or older folks. 

Poland’s Karol Jablonski and other older sailors do just fine at apparent wind sailing, and at faster speeds than these AC blokes.

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28 minutes ago, NZL4EVER said:

By age alone yes. Jimmy and Ben are in the same age range...... 

New blood. 

But even when Barker was in the same age bracket you cant compare him to Jimmy and Ben.....different mental toughness. All the successful AC Helmsman have it, sadly Barker doesn't seem too! I was surprised when the AM team decided to go with Barker.....I would have thought Nathan Outteridge would have been a far better choice!

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While there are fools willing to buy into the "Barker delusion" he will keep taking the money.

Outeridge would sail rings around Barker... But Barker's got Hutches ear.

 

Every team that has employed Barker has regretted it.

His future....   The same as the past..  

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33 minutes ago, Varan said:

Poland’s Karol Jablonski and other older sailors do just fine at apparent wind sailing, and at faster speeds than these AC blokes.

So what's he been doing for the last decade? 

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12 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

So what's he been doing for the last decade? 

Why helming in the AC, didn’t you know?

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

So what's he been doing for the last decade? 

For example, in the DN class...

DN Class Ice SailingEdit

World ChampionshipsEdit

Year Medal Regatta Site
1992 Gold Arsunda, Sweden
1993 Silver Lake Geneva, Switzerland
1994 Silver Nieporęt, Poland
1995 Gold Montreal, Canada
1996 Gold Vienna, Austria
1997 Gold Lake St. Clair, United States
2000 Gold Lake Hjalmaren, Sweden
2001 Gold Saginaw Bay, United States
2002 Silver Haapsalu, Estonia
2003 Gold Lake Champlain, United States
2004 Silver Lake Balaton, Hungary
2014 Gold[1] Haapsalu, Estonia
2015 Gold[2] Lake Ontario, Canada
2016 Gold[3] Lake Glan, Sweden
2017 Gold[4] Lake Kegonsa, United States
2018 Gold[5] Lake Wielimie, Poland
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From what I have seen, 

Dean is the only one who applies match racing tactics when the boats are close. We have seen all the other skippers with more fleet racing pedigree split when infront and not defend their position and rather go to boundary and chase wind shifts. 

All good when you are a fair way in front but if its close, Dean is the only one who will tack and defend his position. This is how they beat ETNZ

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For those like myself who are scratching their heads about ages...

DB is 47

Ainslie 43

Spithill 41

I reckon if he wins the Prada this time he'd be odds on to get a gig in a small fleet (like this one) next time. Depending on the participants.

If it's a larger fleet (e.g. more participants in a more established AC75 class) he'd likely have options in any event. No-one besides Spithill has as much experience test piloting the post-2007 era of AC boats, and he's been to 3 finals (+ 2000). It's like football managers, experience gets hired.

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38 minutes ago, thetruth said:

What about being 30 seconds late for the start of that match race? Forget that bit numpty?

According to TH, they had a jib issue and had to change it. Made them late for the start.

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10 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Agreed. Apparent wind sailing is not a game for middle-aged, or older folks. 

Thats what people were saying about Ben a week ago.

 

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1 hour ago, thetruth said:

What about being 30 seconds late for the start of that match race? Forget that bit numpty?

Late entry, not start so much, emergency jib change. Forget that numpty? Guess your armchair would be bang on time.. 

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Stupid thread with stupid poll. 

Seriously interested or not, I usually say: "mind your own fucking business" 

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6 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Stupid thread with stupid poll. 

Seriously interested or not, I usually say: "mind your own fucking business" 

Nice one! This whole forum would be “stupid” if we minded our own business, didn’t you realise that, move along, and  go back to drinking that shit Fiji Bitter dressed up as a beer!

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Even if he won the whole thing, I dont think he drives next time round because he will doubtless want to retire

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not a DB fan but holy geez.  poor guy!!  took the aggressive mark at the top and crashed the boat and is hung out to dry here.

If he took the safe route and lost, everyone would be saying he's a pussy and should have taken the other mark and he lost it for the team.

no win situation for DB

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19 minutes ago, dent said:

not a DB fan but holy geez.  poor guy!!  took the aggressive mark at the top and crashed the boat and is hung out to dry here.

If he took the safe route and lost, everyone would be saying he's a pussy and should have taken the other mark and he lost it for the team.

no win situation for DB

Not hung out to dry, but more an assessment of his ability to WIN as a AC Helmsmen.....taking into account the teams he has sailed with and the value he brings to the table. No doubt he brings huge IP with him (as well as some skills!) to any team that employees him, the key question is really, Is there anyone else that could do a better job??  

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42 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Even if he won the whole thing, I dont think he drives next time round because he will doubtless want to retire

If he wins the whole thing I cant see him retiring.....he would want to defend it.

As it stands now, he has more chance of retiring after the 1st of February and moving into a CEO role with a new team.

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2 hours ago, **ONTOIT** said:

If he wins the whole thing I cant see him retiring.....he would want to defend it.

As it stands now, he has more chance of retiring after the 1st of February and moving into a CEO role with a new team.

Are you Peter Burling? from looking at your profile pic...

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I have nothing against Barker, I think that he brings valuable experience to AM which as a new startup team they really need it.  I think AM should go for a younger helmsman next time and hopefully they can retain Barker as a coach.

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22 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

I have nothing against Barker, I think that he brings valuable experience to AM which as a new startup team they really need it.  I think AM should go for a younger helmsman next time and hopefully they can retain Barker as a coach.

Coach!!???...   What would he coach..  winning? Confidence? Tactics, ...   

FFS. Burling was won more in 5 years than barker has in 30+ years.

Golf might be a good option ...  Ladies twilight!

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On 1/18/2021 at 12:01 PM, dent said:

not a DB fan but holy geez.  poor guy!!  took the aggressive mark at the top and crashed the boat and is hung out to dry here.

If he took the safe route and lost, everyone would be saying he's a pussy and should have taken the other mark and he lost it for the team.

no win situation for DB

This is Not sailing NiceyNice

if I recall correctly :)

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On 1/19/2021 at 5:14 AM, Terry Hollis said:

I have nothing against Barker, I think that he brings valuable experience to AM which as a new startup team they really need it.  I think AM should go for a younger helmsman next time and hopefully they can retain Barker as a coach.

Everybody but ETNZ will be having younger helms next time I would imagine. So especially poignant for the Challenger helms. 

BTW the YT video with the onboard comms on AM discussed in other thread can't be played in US, lol. 

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On 1/19/2021 at 9:01 AM, dent said:

not a DB fan but holy geez.  poor guy!!  took the aggressive mark at the top and crashed the boat and is hung out to dry here.

If he took the safe route and lost, everyone would be saying he's a pussy and should have taken the other mark and he lost it for the team.

no win situation for DB

He's hung himself out to dry. If he took the smarter safer option he would have finished....  And in order to win one hase to finish!

Comprehend now.

Barker makes his own problems... Nobody else!

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Honest question...is DB the "losingest" skipper in AC history? Won one race way back when Russell gave him a start in 2000, 0-5  in straight matches for TNZ against Alinghi in '03, Lost again 2-5 against Alinghi in '07. Lost to Oracle 8-9. He's 11 wins to 19 losses and lost the Cup 3x. I don't know my Cup history that well, but he has to be on a short list of biggest losers. Why would anyone give him the helm again? Is a NZ reject the best America can do?

i keep thinking that it's a battle between aristocracy and meritocracy. NYYC, the Devos family, Dean, all are where they are through aristocratic bloodlines. ETNZ are what they are on their merits. Grant has won everything there is to win. Peter wasn't given his gold medal or silver medal. NZ as a whole just seems meritocratic to me in general.. I hate to root against my country and state, but I just can't root for AM. 

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22 minutes ago, soma said:

Honest question...is DB the "losingest" skipper in AC history? Won one race way back when Russell gave him a start in 2000, 0-5  in straight matches for TNZ against Alinghi in '03, Lost again 2-5 against Alinghi in '07. Lost to Oracle 8-9. He's 11 wins to 19 losses and lost the Cup 3x. I don't know my Cup history that well, but he has to be on a short list of biggest losers. Why would anyone give him the helm again? Is a NZ reject the best America can do?

i keep thinking that it's a battle between aristocracy and meritocracy. NYYC, the Devos family, Dean, all are where they are through aristocratic bloodlines. ETNZ are what they are on their merits. Grant has won everything there is to win. Peter wasn't given his gold medal or silver medal. NZ as a whole just seems meritocratic to me in general.. I hate to root against my country and state, but I just can't root for AM. 

I wouldn't say that. He just need some more of those: "Standing by, Goodie!"

 

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Think he is a great helm, way better than any of us, anyway.  He just looks like he is trying to withstand way too much pressure, from both the team and the boat, and it can affect your performance.   Try doing anything tricky accurately, while keeping track of the big picture, with 3 guys shouting in your ear.

The kiwis look like they have designed carefully for worst case scenario, so the driver can send it if required.

The americans just planned to scapegoat the helm if he 'screwed up' and the boat fell over.  These things were always going to fall over.

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2 hours ago, maxstaylock said:

Think he is a great helm, way better than any of us, anyway.  He just looks like he is trying to withstand way too much pressure, from both the team and the boat, and it can affect your performance.   Try doing anything tricky accurately, while keeping track of the big picture, with 3 guys shouting in your ear.

The kiwis look like they have designed carefully for worst case scenario, so the driver can send it if required.

The americans just planned to scapegoat the helm if he 'screwed up' and the boat fell over.  These things were always going to fall over.

Clever thinking: "The kiwis look like they have designed carefully for worst case scenario, so the driver can send it if required."

Yes, they tested capsizing in good time. They checked that nothing broke free internally, like a battery!

 

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