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6 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Why didn't Burling go to the other Gate Mark or was this move designed to help the Aussies because that's what it looked like.

It was a panicked last second gybe. He should have ducked. They were having enough problems just getting their boat around the track cleanly, I doubt they were trying to help out anyone else.

8 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Spain

Thought Phil R had a pretty good regatta. He was always in the mix, although he is a bit of a cowboy. 

Poor old Denmark though. The only team fully sponsored, and barely mentioned all weekend.

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I had to stop and take a photo of this today (not like I'm pushed for time during lockdown ). Looks like my youngest likes SailGP. Perhaps the boats are just easier to build with lego than the foiling

Some of you are truly amusing. Let's start with a simple truth. This event was probably the best televised sailing I have ever seen. Sure, there is room for improvement but the racing was epic, t

i didnt bag the ac dipshit. quite strangely you identify yourself with that event and you feel like if someone bags on you, that means the event. i thought it was good. you on the other hand must be f

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

25 years ago was 25 years ago. Drummond also was one of the key reasons we lost it as well with that "Revolutionary hula" piece of shit.

The F50 is shite. Had it been designed by ETNZ it probably would've been leaps and bounds ahead of where it is now, consistently breaking 50 knots, and foiling through maneuvers without hobby horsing around the course like it is now.  

"Revolutionary hula" was a great idea and had nothing to do with TNZ's failure, think about the mast breaking or the water filling the cockpit, that might give give you some understanding of the design issues.

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It’s possible that BA, realizing PB was in the thick of winning that race, intentionally F’d them. Right after forcing them into that gybe, he gybed perfectly for the mark... 

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20 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Fingered it out. On the Theme that I’m set to, you go to the sandwich at the top tight, then Account->Ignored Users, then go this direction:

 

Fuck Ray, I fingered you figured you out ages ago, in 2013 actually:

Screenshot_20210426-151931.thumb.png.e77c75235e245167daa64851b048c2ca.png

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1 minute ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Fuck Ray, I fingered you figured you out ages ago, in 2013 actually:

Screenshot_20210426-151931.thumb.png.e77c75235e245167daa64851b048c2ca.png

Oh good! Please ignore my latest handle too? That one’s post-count got embarrassingly high :) 

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I've never been annoyed this much watching otherwise excellent racing or in fact any sailing ever. 

The sailors and sailing are awesome, boats are good for trashing around short courses - how can they screw up everything else so badly?

Which genius thought they should film the pre-start head on from the other side of the Atlantic? Who thinks viewers like kph more than kn, when every sailor interviewed talks about knots and the commentators keep converting kn - kph back and forth all the time. Remember the obsession with the 50 knt barrier? Is it now going to be the magical 92.6 km/h barrier? The only logical explanation is they wanted to show higher numbers than the AC. Pathetic.

How did they manage to fuck up the graphics? It's been working fine since AC34!

The main commentator is extremely annoying. While he's actually making good calls, that voice and the constant hype... I had to turn the sound off.

The fake rivalry thing - so cringey.  Best sailor in the word... even if it was true, and it's not, Slingsby should know better. I was so happy to see him lose.

They should just forget about using this series to get non-sailor masses interested. Even for a seasoned sailor it's pretty hard to understand what's going on. If Freddie Carr is confused sometimes while having all the data and monitors available, imagine how much a newbie wanna-be sailor would understand. Maybe they should first try to convince sailors to watch this.

Isn't it funny that Leo with a couple of cameras and volunteers around Tally Ho gets more than twice the viewers in 1 day than the multimillion dollar SailGP? Interestingly no one is screaming around Tally Ho, no one claims they are the best caulkers in the world, and even when the topic is highly technical, somehow viewers seem to be interested in learning new things without having to dumb down everything to Nascar fan level.

I could of course just not watch it, but what's annoying is that I'd actually like this series to be a success. Can't they find someone who could put this together into an enjoyable package?

Show it as a sailing regatta. If you want fans interested in sailing, educate them about it. Don't try to convert it into car racing.

Instead of cooking up fake rivalries, how about emphasizing sportsmanship and friendship among the sailors. Which is actually real, since they all sailed together at some point in their carrier and some of them have been best buddies forever.

Eight boats are already almost too many. If they get two more teams, it's going to be total chaos. If they want that many boats, they should divide them into separate fleets for the preliminary races. That way, once a race finishes, the other one can start immediately saving us from half an hour of annoying puff pieces to fill time. 

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It’s possible that BA, realizing PB was in the thick of winning that race, intentionally F’d them. Right after forcing them into that gybe, he gybed perfectly for the mark... 

Of Course I have no proof but I think Burling wanted to shoot out the Brits to make life easier for Slingsby in the Final.

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4 minutes ago, erdb said:

Which genius thought they should film the pre-start head on from the other side of the Atlantic? Who thinks viewers like kph more than kn, when every sailor interviewed talks about knots and the commentators keep converting kn - kph back and forth all the time. Remember the obsession with the 50 knt barrier? Is it now going to be the magical 92.6 km/h barrier? The only logical explanation is they wanted to show higher numbers than the AC. Pathetic.

Agreed most especially with this part. Keep it in Knots for chrissakes... It’s the Nautical language, viewers will understand. 

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5 minutes ago, erdb said:

annoying puff pieces to fill time. 

Speaking of which. I think the green credentials Wuss is espousing is a complete crock. The yachts themselves might be powered by nature, but the 40+ containers they ship all over the world definitely are not. I think he should drop this nonsense.

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BTW, where the hell are you, Dorox?

 

Can you PLEASE find a way to sneak some of this data being streamed? 
 

David Carr at one point said something like “I don’t want to sound like a Geek but am watching the livestream data and right now GBR is feathering the flaps more than anyone else, and using the main less”

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3 minutes ago, erdb said:

The main commentator is extremely annoying. While he's actually making good calls, that voice and the constant hype... I had to turn the sound off.

Dude, the commentating is easily the worst part.

Nasally as fuck commentator can fuck right off. He is absolutely unbearable. That's actually horried. Still blows me away how someone with a voice for photography got a job doing audio. Seriously dudes yelling in a post race interview at Besson who's calmly standing on the boat 30 seconds after a race and is far more composed than this MF.

Also, commentators, why are you all out of breath? You are supposed to be calm, collected viewers making remarks on the event. Watch a fucking NBA game a take a few pointers. 

How are the people organising this stuff so seperated from reality?

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21 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

"Revolutionary hula" was a great idea and had nothing to do with TNZ's failure, think about the mast breaking or the water filling the cockpit, that might give give you some understanding of the design issues.

The hula was a crap idea that didn't work and was removed as soon as the event ended as has never been seen since.

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The interesting thing for me is how far off the pace PB was. During this regatta the kiwi boat looked very poor. Its not like PB never raced this type of boat before. He’s won two AC and the gold medal, but today he looked like a chump. I’m sure he will be embarrassed enough to make an improvement. 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

The min was set too low, apparently for TV window broadcast contracts. 

I totally agree, the minimum was way too low. It should have been around 10 knots which should be perfectly normal for March afternoon sea breezes. The 10 days of incredibly light wind was A-typical and has not been like that since the cup finished.

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8 minutes ago, mako23 said:

The interesting thing for me is how far off the pace PB was. During this regatta the kiwi boat looked very poor. Its not like PB never raced this type of boat before. He’s won two AC and the gold medal, but today he looked like a chump. I’m sure he will be embarrassed enough to make an improvement. 

It is likely a bunch of things that contributed to the poor results. Raw boat, steep learning curve, big wind, ? 
 

I still think they should have split their salaries in order to sign Glenn on.. ;)

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52 minutes ago, erdb said:

Eight boats are already almost too many. If they get two more teams, it's going to be total chaos. If they want that many boats, they should divide them into separate fleets for the preliminary races. That way, once a race finishes, the other one can start immediately saving us from half an hour of annoying puff pieces to fill time. 

I've been thinking the same thing. The coverage is a bit of a WIP but even if they do sort it out there is way too much action going on to follow with 8 boats racing at once. It's hard to form a view off what was off with the kiwis cos they were very rarely on screen. I can't believe people are down on Spanish Phil (previously China Phil) he's damn fast, almost made the podium and I suspect has a lot less support on board than some of the other rock stars who probably make 10 times the cash...

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24 minutes ago, mako23 said:

The interesting thing for me is how far off the pace PB was. During this regatta the kiwi boat looked very poor. Its not like PB never raced this type of boat before. He’s won two AC and the gold medal, but today he looked like a chump. I’m sure he will be embarrassed enough to make an improvement. 

I think they had issues with the boat. Even the commentators mentioned something about their hydraulic problems on day 1. Interestingly, at one point they were 1st in the first downwind leg on both days. Then came a horrible jibe/mark rounding, and they would never be back up to speed for the rest of the day.

Their windward board seemed to be a bit wobbly in the finish of the 3rd race on Day 1. Is that normal?

"Happy just cruising here, right?" :unsure:

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I wonder how much Blair is missing his old follow the Herbie dots? :) 

You can guarantee a lot less than the likes of Spithill, Ainslie, Slingsby and Outteridge are missing their Auld Mug.

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6 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Do you like cloves in your Humble Pie?

Short crust pastry?

Arrogant kiwi with a consistent wine please... 

that what clarkey is serving up, are you joining him? 

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Just now, JALhazmat said:

Arrogant kiwi with a consistent wine please... 

that what clarkey is serving up, are you joining him? 

Aww whining about Kiwi's again lol the old green eyed monster again 

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

You can guarantee a lot less than the likes of Spithill, Ainslie, Slingsby and Outteridge are missing their Auld Mug.

Blair is on wing now not on dot duty. 
 

seeing at there is no mug up for grabs currently this will have to do for now. 

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Just now, Forourselves said:

Aww whining about Kiwi's again lol the old green eyed monster again 

I won’t watch it, the boats are terrible, it’s only a cash grab.. yet you are still here :lol:

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

Blair is on wing now not on dot duty. 
 

seeing at there is no mug up for grabs currently this will have to do for now. 

Maloney is on wing.

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

I won’t watch it, the boats are terrible, it’s only a cash grab.. yet you are still here :lol:

I didn't watch it..its an income. Both true statements

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

Maloney is on wing.

Wasn’t what was announced but hey, I was giving your team another excuse with a new guy on flight control,  you have clutched at every other one going. 
No dot no fun for Blair then.. 

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

Wasn’t what was announced but hey, I was giving your team another excuse with a new guy on flight control,  you have clutched at every other one going. 
No dot no fun for Blair then.. 

Plenty of fun winning the AC  though. 

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Yeah, the breathless guy also used Spithill instead of Slingsby a few times. Harmless I guess but a sign of.. well whatever. 

Agree, commentary was bad. But the whole fleet race is hard to follow, too many things happening at the same time, so commenting can't be easy.

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3 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

"Revolutionary hula" was a great idea and had nothing to do with TNZ's failure, think about the mast breaking or the water filling the cockpit, that might give give you some understanding of the design issues.

The hula was a piece of shit. The rule meant that it couldn’t touch the hull whilst sailing. They spent a shit load of time trying to prove to the measurers that it didn’t. It proved impossible to keep the gap between the hull and hula consistent and narrow therefore increasing drag.
 

All the while they should have been out fucking sailing, seeing if their mast was going to fall down, their boom was going to shear off, or if their blue bucket was big enough. 

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14 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

The hula was a piece of shit. The rule meant that it couldn’t touch the hull whilst sailing. They spent a shit load of time trying to prove to the measurers that it didn’t. It proved impossible to keep the gap between the hull and hula consistent and narrow therefore increasing drag.
 

All the while they should have been out fucking sailing, seeing if their mast was going to fall down, their boom was going to shear off, or if their blue bucket was big enough. 

Agreed the hula was a disaster and maybe the result of a cash strapped defence looking to design a technological breakthrough. The fact that they didn’t build any new masts for their boats, was a symptom of their relative poverty, compared to the likes of Alinghi. 
 

Peter Blake really created a mess when he left. That fact he was murdered gives him an untouchable reputation that’s not deserved. 

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4 hours ago, erdb said:

Eight boats are already almost too many. If they get two more teams, it's going to be total chaos. If they want that many boats, they should divide them into separate fleets for the preliminary races. That way, once a race finishes, the other one can start immediately saving us from half an hour of annoying puff pieces to fill time. 

Two flights is a very good idea. Could run twice the amount of races and half the down time. I actually quite liked the 3 boat final though. One race to decide it seems a bit cruel. 

8 boats is incredible to watch however, almost sensory overload. But if they had at least a GPS overview inset on the feed then it would be much easier. One of the best aspects is watching a back marker take a split then slowly pull in to the fleet as they come back across the course. Without an overview, this has no context, and obviously you can't devote camera time to every back marker who splits as it doesn't always pay off. 

Lead commentator is Stevie Morrison. He's gone to the games, won a 49er worlds, and was one of the best 'others' during Nathan Outteridge's dominance of the 49er fleet. He's done quite a bit of 'second' guy commentating and been really good. Plus he's got really good insights and opinions in post race chats. But... he was a bit overhyped; probably been coached to do this in the main commentator role. 

Freddie gets a pretty sweet data feed, he posted a screen shot on one of his social media accounts. But, it's a great shame this isn't public. They'd get a lot of extra exposure form people like Dorox and ERDB working it up to a graphical format that can be better digested. I was hoping it would be on the app. 

Having said all that, the racing, was very, very good. Not the design intrigue of the AC, but if they can fill that void with more racing and more regular events, then I think it could have legs. 

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Good to see NZL with a bit more pace on Day 2.

Well done, Sir Ben and crew.

Shame the self-aggrandised 'greatest sailor in the world' got handed his arse. 

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4 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

The 10 days of incredibly light wind was A-typical and has not been like that since the cup finished.

I hope you're not saying "It's never usually like this" Sea Breeze. Couldn't tell you how many times I've heard THAT at a sailing regatta! :lol:

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Wuss says that he has pioneered a "climate positive sport..and entertainment property",  looks like a 70 odd solar.array in the blurb. Are the boat batteries really charged with this? Great project. Kudos.

Except for the shipping, and the black bits I guess...but maybe locking carbon up in boats is the way to save the world?

I raced solar powered drones for years as I charged on my boat. I'm not only proud about it, but smug.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Good to see NZL with a bit more pace on Day 2.

Well done, Sir Ben and crew.

Shame the self-aggrandised 'greatest sailor in the world' got handed his arse. 

Congratulations to the script writers.  I hear they were borrowed from 'Dancing with the Stars'.

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2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

The hula was a piece of shit. The rule meant that it couldn’t touch the hull whilst sailing. They spent a shit load of time trying to prove to the measurers that it didn’t. It proved impossible to keep the gap between the hull and hula consistent and narrow therefore increasing drag.
 

All the while they should have been out fucking sailing, seeing if their mast was going to fall down, their boom was going to shear off, or if their blue bucket was big enough. 

 

2 hours ago, mako23 said:

Agreed the hula was a disaster and maybe the result of a cash strapped defence looking to design a technological breakthrough. The fact that they didn’t build any new masts for their boats, was a symptom of their relative poverty, compared to the likes of Alinghi. 
 

Peter Blake really created a mess when he left. That fact he was murdered gives him an untouchable reputation that’s not deserved. 

The problems with the hula were resolved so these problems along with the broken spars and the water in the cockpit were all symptoms of the same thing.

TNZ were underfunded and had insufficient design and testing capacity to do the job properly. 

I still think the hula was a great idea given the rules of the day.

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On 4/24/2021 at 8:35 PM, Forourselves said:

Bahaha Larry and Russell are paying for ETNZ's sailing team to stay sharp, so they can go to the Olympics and win another gold medal, and come home and successfully defend ANOTHER Americas Cup! lol Thats the reality! lol

How many times a day do you masterbate to images of your TNZ hero’s? God, you can pollute any thread with your incessant fan boi crap. You are joining the select group on my ignore list.

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6 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Yeah, the breathless guy also used Spithill instead of Slingsby a few times. Harmless I guess but a sign of.. well whatever. 

He said Tom Spithill once too when talking about Slingby 

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17 hours ago, Forourselves said:

A skill of a good sailor is the ability to know what makes a boat go fast. Not only do they recognise what makes a one design boat fast, but theyre able to give valuable feedback into an AC design as well. As Sirena said, the ETNZ boat is a reflection of Pete and how he likes to sail. The F50 is a reflection of a design team that designed something that isnt up to scratch. The F50 isnt up to the standard of an AC boat. Its a crap boat. Everyone has the same tool, but just because everyone is using the same tool doesnt change the fact that the tool is shit. It just means everyone is using a tool that isnt what it should be. Its no coincidence that the AC sailors are struggling with the F50. Because theyre used to using tools that are of a certain standard, something the F50 isnt.

I do not agree that the GP 50 is a poorly designed boat..

The GP 50 has been refined based on feedback from the sailors and ongoing design work,

Unlike many OS classes that stay fixed from the moment they are first designed and built, the FP50 has evolved in a controlled way, yet staying identical.  All boats have a certain idiosyncrasy but good sailors figure them out just like the best sailors figured out how to make their Laser ( a reasonably shit but fun boat) go faster.

Burling will figure it out. Time in the boat is helping.  Slingsby has already figured it out and makes it sail elegantly even in the strongest of breezes where the AC 75s were having big crashes. 

 

"A skill of a good sailor is the ability to know what makes a boat go fast"

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It seems the F50s are started to rival the AC75s. I saw consistent speeds of 30+kts upwind, sometimes reaching even 35kts. Plus speeds of over 50 kts downwind! The boats were just ripping! In my opinion that racing was much more exciting than the Americas Cup. Even if the AC boats are going faster, the F50s have a much greater appearance of speed.

 

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12 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Lol! 

I guarandarrumtee you these guys are all fighting hard out there.. 
 

 

They do on Survivor too but somehow...

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Opinions:

1. When NZ gets their boat sorted, ForNZ will be all enthusiastic about SGP again.

2. They seem to have skimped on cameras or their camera direction is for shit. Or both.  Direction was a problem Season 1 too bitbat least the app let you see different views.

3. If they have 10 boats they definitely need better camera angles and direction. See above,

Question:

Did anybody use the app during the races? Day 2 even? Did it work like last season? There is no replay on it for Bermuda. Are they cutting costs by getting less data or not streaming it live to viewers?

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46 minutes ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

It seems the F50s are started to rival the AC75s. I saw consistent speeds of 30+kts upwind, sometimes reaching even 35kts. Plus speeds of over 50 kts downwind! The boats were just ripping! In my opinion that racing was much more exciting than the Americas Cup. Even if the AC boats are going faster, the F50s have a much greater appearance of speed.

 

Please quote the speed on km/h!!! 

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Opinions:

1. When NZ gets their boat sorted, ForNZ will be all enthusiastic about SGP again.

2. They seem to have skimped on cameras or their camera direction is for shit. Or both.  Direction was a problem Season 1 too bitbat least the app let you see different views.

3. If they have 10 boats they definitely need better camera angles and direction. See above,

Question:

Did anybody use the app during the races? Day 2 even? Did it work like last season? There is no replay on it for Bermuda. Are they cutting costs by getting less data or not streaming it live to viewers?

Agree camera angles were better in season 1.   You could see the tactics playing out much better.  I suspect restricted personnel due to covid might have played a part.

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1 hour ago, Admiral Hornblower said:

It seems the F50s are started to rival the AC75s. I saw consistent speeds of 30+kts upwind, sometimes reaching even 35kts. Plus speeds of over 50 kts downwind! The boats were just ripping! In my opinion that racing was much more exciting than the Americas Cup. Even if the AC boats are going faster, the F50s have a much greater appearance of speed.

 

Starting to.....but the AC75 is the more awesome machine.    That doesnt matter though. The AC 75 is absurdly expensive and is just for a small number of teams (4).  The F50s are nearly as fast......but way less money and we have 8 teams with all the top AC sailors in the mix.

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Well well. I was out on the water, it looked fantastic close up, and commentary via VHF was "acceptable". Reviewing the coverage on TV later, graphics were "hokey" and need to be improved, camera angles were poor - only one camera boat on the  water and one helicopter, and I agree the KPH nonsense has to go - needs to be in knots. Commentators were between a rock and a hard place - trying to make it understandable and exciting for non-sailors and interesting for those of us that are sailors. 

All in all, not bad coverage and sure it could be better. The racing, however, was awesome and infinitely better than the snore fest that was AC36. 

Given all the COVID crap that everyone is dealign with, it wasn't a bad effort. 

And great to see the Kiwis do so well...........(runs, ducks for cover....)

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On 4/23/2021 at 4:43 AM, winchfodder said:

So they are now going to Race Saturday's races today because of potential light winds. However they will not transmit the TV feed or the results until the previously scheduled transmission times on Saturday!

Seems such a contrived solution, like trying to make out SailGP has some relevance other than a gravy train for exAC crew and a way for RC to blow loads of LE cash.

So will we find out the results today? 

 

Saw lots of similar comments on this topic. Who cares? Really, who actually cares if the broadcast schedule is fixed? 

And why does anyone care about LE cash?? 

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1 hour ago, TwoRockKnock said:

Arguably, but compared to SailGP, AC36 was like watching paint dry. 

AP36 was better than that.......but agree with your general point, Sail GP was exciting and incredible to see that much talent in one place, sailing identical boats, ,,,,boats that are incredibly fast and technical

 

In terms of viewing/spectating, they are two very different events but for the average viewer I suspect SailGP is more exciting with closer racing and overtaking.

I hear the argument that the AC75 allows for better tacking duels  and has an element of the spectacular.  I dont disagree that the AC 75 is in many ways a better boat BUT.....I dont think it makes a difference. Both are large and foil at great speed. The advantage of the GP50 is it is lower cost, less complex to sail, identical  and thus more entries and closer competition .So if you are design competition geek....nothing wll ever beat the AC. If you like to see high speed close racing between best sailing pro's then GP Sail should also be enjoyable.

It would be intriguing to get Ben over a beer and ask him, which are most fun to sail and which offer the better tactical racing. If there was an OD 75...would that be as fun as the GP50 or more fun, and why?

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13 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

AP36 was better than that.......but agree with your general point, Sail GP was exciting and incredible to see that much talent in one place, sailing identical boats, ,,,,boats that are incredibly fast and technical

 

In terms of viewing/spectating, they are two very different events but for the average viewer I suspect SailGP is more exciting with closer racing and overtaking.

I hear the argument that the AC75 allows for better tacking duels  and has an element of the spectacular.  I dont disagree that the AC 75 is in many ways a better boat BUT.....I dont think it makes a difference. Both are large and foil at great speed. The advantage of the GP50 is it is lower cost, less complex to sail, identical  and thus more entries and closer competition .So if you are design competition geek....nothing wll ever beat the AC. If you like to see high speed close racing between best sailing pro's then GP Sail should also be enjoyable.

It would be intriguing to get Ben over a beer and ask him, which are most fun to sail and which offer the better tactical racing. If there was an OD 75...would that be as fun as the GP50 or more fun, and why?

I don't think it would matter, big, fast, all the same, so close racing. You'd get some economies of scale, but you'd need to think about where it's practical to race such large fast boats in a fleet. Also, the F50's have detachable bows to fit them in standard 40 foot containers....so there's a bit more than just the design criteria.

The real issue, point, raison d'etre, is do you buy into the concept of a year round extreme series, like F1, that brings high octane sailing to the masses? Can it be sustainable? If Oracle had retained the Cup here in Bermuda in 2017, then I think that's what you would have seen sooner, and established quicker. 

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1 hour ago, TwoRockKnock said:

Arguably, but compared to SailGP, AC36 was like watching paint dry. 

The AC was a much, cleaner more professional production, and the boats are better. The F50 still isn't consistently performing foiling maneuvers like the 75 is. The 50 is too small and looks like a toy.

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The AC was a much, cleaner more professional production, and the boats are better. The F50 still isn't consistently performing foiling maneuvers like the 75 is. The 50 is too small and looks like a toy.

Not consistent manoeuvres? Depends who is driving.. :lol: not which dot is being followed. 

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

The AC was a much, cleaner more professional production, and the boats are better. The F50 still isn't consistently performing foiling maneuvers like the 75 is. The 50 is too small and looks like a toy.

I agree, it was, but really that's all it had in it's favour. The AC boats may well have been faster, more elegantly designed, but who cares? The racing was crap with perhaps the exception of one or two races. It wasn't a spectacle, didn't invite people into sailing and simply wasn't exciting. Send them out in J24's, at least it would have been close. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The AC was a much, cleaner more professional production, and the boats are better. The F50 still isn't consistently performing foiling maneuvers like the 75 is. The 50 is too small and looks like a toy.

The 50 did not look like a toy at all. It looked like a hellva machine. I would love a ride on one.

The AC production was cleaner but Season 1 of sail GP was also excellent. They will get back there.

The maneuvers were a differentiator on the race course, as they should be. Foiling gybes and tacks are not easy in any boat that size.  It was not easy in a 75 either until they had months of practice and there were still some bad ones.

 

2 minutes ago, TwoRockKnock said:

I agree, it was, but really that's all it had in it's favour. The AC boats may well have been faster, more elegantly designed, but who cares? The racing was crap with perhaps the exception of one or two races. It wasn't a spectacle, didn't invite people into sailing and simply wasn't exciting. Send them out in J24's, at least it would have been close. 

 

Please dont send them out in J24s.......and the racing was not crap, especially in some of the round robins.  But I agree with your general thesis that the racing in Sail GP was much more exciting around the course.

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1 minute ago, EYESAILOR said:

 

Please dont send them out in J24s.......and the racing was not crap, especially in some of the round robins.  But I agree with your general thesis that the racing in Sail GP was much more exciting around the course.

But you get my point, bigger fleet, one-design at speed is simply more entertaining than the notion of a match between two boats that are nowhere near each other after the start. If they were doing 25 knots instead of 50, and were closer together then I'd be more inclined to stay up to some god awful hour to watch it! 

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4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Opinions:

1. When NZ gets their boat sorted, ForNZ will be all enthusiastic about SGP again.

2. They seem to have skimped on cameras or their camera direction is for shit. Or both.  Direction was a problem Season 1 too bitbat least the app let you see different views.

3. If they have 10 boats they definitely need better camera angles and direction. See above,

Question:

Did anybody use the app during the races? Day 2 even? Did it work like last season? There is no replay on it for Bermuda. Are they cutting costs by getting less data or not streaming it live to viewers?

They would also have benefitted from using a Virtual Eye during the racing too; to make some sense of the madness. 

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11 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The AC was a much, cleaner more professional production, and the boats are better. The F50 still isn't consistently performing foiling maneuvers like the 75 is. The 50 is too small and looks like a toy.

Who cares about video production. If the racing is boring,  it is boring. And there is always some dumb host saying something stupid.

The fleet racing was 100% more exciting than the AC. Even the final with 3 was good. I just would like wider and longer legs. How many millions was spent to do a 12 minute race?

Even our Blokart Racing is more exciting. A fleet of 20 to 30 doing speeds of 30+ mph at the Start is pretty exciting. and it only costs what a big block on one of those tubs cost. I can't wait to get racing again

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Just now, TwoRockKnock said:

But you get my point, bigger fleet, one-design at speed is simply more entertaining than the notion of a match between two boats that are nowhere near each other after the start. If they were doing 25 knots instead of 50, and were closer together then I'd be more inclined to stay up to some god awful hour to watch it! 

I get your point but I somehow could see the speed adjusted distance and so some of the matches were close in my mind.  Several were not.

There is more close exciting racing in the Sail GP for two reasons:

1.   They are One Design. 

2. More top skippers on the course, so always more than one boat making the right call.

So yes yes yes.....Sail GP was very exciting.

(I expect the AC75s will get closer and closer in design and speed as the hand of Darwin modifies design but design battles are always less close racing than one design,)

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The final of 3 was an interesting and positive introduction.

The leader cannot just cover 2nd in early part of the race.  

FWIW, I liked that Ben covered Australia when they thought Australia was going the right way but were not afraid to split when they felt Aus was not going the best route.

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Just now, Meat Wad said:

Who cares about video production. If the racing is boring,  it is boring. And there is always some dumb host saying something stupid.

The fleet racing was 100% more exciting than the AC. Even the final with 3 was good. I just would like wider and longer legs. How many millions was spent to do a 12 minute race?

Even our Blokart Racing is more exciting. A fleet of 20 to 30 doing speeds of 30+ mph at the Start is pretty exciting. and it only costs what a big block on one of those tubs cost. I can't wait to get racing again

SailGP is catered toward the masses. Those who don't appreciate real racing, but prefer chaos madness and adrenaline filled carnage.

Each to his own, but you get what you pay for. The production, the boats and the entire event is just a step up in class in the AC. 

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

SailGP is catered toward the masses. Those who don't appreciate real racing, but prefer chaos madness and adrenaline filled carnage.

 

You are kidding right??? I saw 1 bump at a start and of course Japan really screwed up, hitting the US. If the courses were a bit bigger, it would be better and give more room. I know you are biased being a Kiwi.

I wish the Superfoiler group would travel and get the colleges and other amateur's foiling. Larry E should really get behind that. I think it would really transform sailing as it is much more manageable boat.

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20 minutes ago, TwoRockKnock said:

I agree, it was, but really that's all it had in it's favour. The AC boats may well have been faster, more elegantly designed, but who cares? The racing was crap with perhaps the exception of one or two races. It wasn't a spectacle, didn't invite people into sailing and simply wasn't exciting. Send them out in J24's, at least it would have been close. 

 

The racing wasn't crap. Its just not fleet racing. The AC is an event steeped in tradition, grandeur and elegance. Its match racing, its about subtlety.

SailGP is about chaos, carnage and crashes. They're 2 different concepts.

In SailGP, crashes and contact are almost encouraged, the boats are encouraged to get as close to each other as possible, and contact is seen as exciting, where in the AC, the boats are kept as far apart as possible, and its about winning the race, not hitting the other boat. Its about what sailing has always been about, playing the shifts, match racing the other boats.

SailGP is more like demolition derby, where the AC is more like F1.

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2 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

You are kidding right??? I saw 1 bump at a start and of course Japan really screwed up, hitting the US. If the courses were a bit bigger, it would be better and give more room. I know you are biased being a Kiwi.

I wish the Superfoiler group would travel and get the colleges and other amateur's foiling. Larry E should really get behind that. I think it would really transform sailing as it is much more manageable boat.

There have been plenty of "bumps" over season 1 and 2 in SailGP.

The Superfoiler!? The Superfoiler is shit!!! 

I prefer subtlety, I prefer watching 2 boats match racing on a course. 

The 75's are bigger, faster, more powerful, more consistent in regards to maneuvers, more elegant and easier to watch, to appreciate than the toys that are the F50's.

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1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

The racing wasn't crap. Its just not fleet racing. The AC is an event steeped in tradition, grandeur and elegance. Its match racing, its about subtlety.

SailGP is about chaos, carnage and crashes. They're 2 different concepts.

In SailGP, crashes and contact are almost encouraged, the boats are encouraged to get as close to each other as possible, and contact is seen as exciting, where in the AC, the boats are kept as far apart as possible, and its about winning the race, not hitting the other boat. Its about what sailing has always been about, playing the shifts, match racing the other boats.

SailGP is more like demolition derby, where the AC is more like F1.

Well, that's bollocks. It's not match racing if the boats are different. 

It's about, traditionally ,who had the most money, and latterly, who had the smarts in design. If June 2017 had been 10 knots windier, Peter would have headed back to NZ with his tail between his legs, talented as he undoubtedly is. And for their part, Oracle should have looked at historical wind for June. but that's in the past. 

The AC75 boats where phenomenal, but the racing was crap, dull, lack lustre, unexciting. Oh yes, I could see the nuance as a sailor myself, and I get the history, but boy there was a serious lack of excitement. 

When did you last watch an F1 race? Christ, the starts are chaos behind the front four cars. 

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7 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 in the AC, the boats are kept as far apart as possible, and its about winning the race, not hitting the other boat. Its about what sailing has always been about, playing the shifts, match racing the other boats.

SailGP is more like demolition derby, where the AC is more like F1.

What little knowledge you have about match racing vs fleet racing.

Match racing is boat on boat and often tight and close coverage.

It is not what most racing is about.  I speak as a fan of the AC but your comments make the AC sound less exciting.

In neither event are collisions, allowed , encouraged or tolerated.  There are penalties and they can extend into the score in sailGP over and above losing points for just that race.  IN AC, the worst is DSQ. In SailGP, it can be DSQ and then penalty points added as well.

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4 minutes ago, TwoRockKnock said:

 

When did you last watch an F1 race? Christ, the starts are chaos behind the front four cars. 

Not just the starts either.

Nor are the front four immune. Hamilton and Verstappen in the first few turns in Italy until Hamilton was forced off the track.  If that is a model for how close quarters racing is for AC then I must have missed that AC race.

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@EYESAILOR

SAIL GP is a "Sailors League". The Crew makes the Difference while in the AC unfortunately it now has become 80 maybe even 85 % Design Contest and only 15-20 % Sailing Skills. That is very sad in my view and contributed to the low participation in the last 3 Cup Cycles. We have gone from 3 Challengers in 2013 to 5 in 2017 back to 3 in 2021.

Right now @Forourselvesis glaring at the AC75 Class but watch him doing a 180 Degree U-Turn once he learns that Dalton & Ratcliffe have introduced a whole new bunch of OD Elements for AC37. Ray Davies, the ETNZ Sailing Coach hinted at a potentially a OD self-tacking jib control system for the next Cup.

I am honest: Over the last 5-6 years I only enjoyed 3 big Sailing Contests: The two Volvos 2014-15 & 2017-18 and SailGP. I was on the edge of my seat particularly during the 17-18 when Teams finished within minutes of each other after 5,000 NM + Legs. The OD VO65 were spectacular. I've the same feeling for SailGP now.

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42 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

What little knowledge you have about match racing vs fleet racing.

Match racing is boat on boat and often tight and close coverage.

It is not what most racing is about.  I speak as a fan of the AC but your comments make the AC sound less exciting.

In neither event are collisions, allowed , encouraged or tolerated.  There are penalties and they can extend into the score in sailGP over and above losing points for just that race.  IN AC, the worst is DSQ. In SailGP, it can be DSQ and then penalty points added as well.

Formalities. In reality, crashes are posted all over social media, are often edited in videos with generic rock music making them exciting to watch and become the focal point of the regatta. Spithills capsize was posted on social media before the racing was posted! The AUS capsize was posted over, and over, and over again on social media, The Japan/ USA collision has become a “highlight” of the regatta. 

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Meanwhile...

The Italian Province of Pulia, where Taranto is located is now an "Orange Zone" moving out of the "Red Zone" Status.

 

FAED8136-DA91-4641-A398-54D4067F0807.png

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8 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Formalities. In reality, crashes are posted all over social media, are often edited in videos with generic rock music making them exciting to watch and become the focal point of the regatta. Spithills capsize was posted on social media before the racing was posted! The AUS capsize was posted over, and over, and over again on social media, The Japan/ USA collision has become a “highlight” of the regatta. 

dunno about that, I though the highlight was seeing the aura of excellence smashed all over the floor as the Kiwis trailed home DFL ( sorry they beat boats that had retired.. or had picked up a DNF) 

 

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12 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Formalities. In reality, crashes are posted all over social media, are often edited in videos with generic rock music making them exciting to watch and become the focal point of the regatta. Spithills capsize was posted on social media before the racing was posted! The AUS capsize was posted over, and over, and over again on social media, The Japan/ USA collision has become a “highlight” of the regatta. 

Like the AM capsize--repeated again and again--wasn't a "highlight" of AC36?

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3 minutes ago, accnick said:

Like the AM capsize--repeated again and again--wasn't a "highlight" of AC36?

Yes, and it shouldnt have been. Thats what I mean. Though its not a selling point of the AC. Thats the difference.

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Looking at videos the Antipodes people need to learn how to wear their masks before they go to Europe. Up over your nose or you are unprotected.

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4 hours ago, TwoRockKnock said:

And great to see the Kiwis do so well...........(runs, ducks for cover....)

Hey no problem....we were shit, no other way to describe it. 

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44 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Formalities. In reality, crashes are posted all over social media, are often edited in videos with generic rock music making them exciting to watch and become the focal point of the regatta. Spithills capsize was posted on social media before the racing was posted! The AUS capsize was posted over, and over, and over again on social media, The Japan/ USA collision has become a “highlight” of the regatta. 

So was the American Magic capsize.........which was way more dramatic than any capsize in SailGP thus far ....and effectively took 3 competitors down to 2.

Fleet racing is fleet racing.

Match racing is match racing.   You get to watch your match racing every 3-4 years....enjoy it.

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12 minutes ago, TwoRockKnock said:

He's no mug though, he'll be back. 

I don’t know if PB has a big ego, but if he does, these results will certainly humble him. As the defender PB didn’t get to race much, which certainly showed in the first couple of the races in the AC. The ultimate irony is that Russel Coutts is doing ETNZ a massive favor by sharping up PB skills. 
 

Thank god we have the F50 boats to watch since the AC has finished. I like both forms of racing. I  like foiling racing compared to displacement hulls. The sense of danger and speed is amazing to watch.

 

I also agree that PB will get better...he sure needs to

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16 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I don’t know if PB has a big ego, but if he does, these results will certainly humble him. As the defender PB didn’t get to race much, which certainly showed in the first couple of the races in the AC. The ultimate irony is that Russel Coutts is doing ETNZ a massive favor by sharping up PB skills. 
 

Thank god we have the F50 boats to watch since the AC has finished. I like both forms of racing. I  like foiling racing compared to displacement hulls. The sense of danger and speed is amazing to watch.

 

I also agree that PB will get better...he sure needs to

There were a couple of absolutely shocking dives by PB to the top/bottom gates... either Te Rehutai has an incredible high/low mode we never saw, or he forgot how to turn the boat.

https://puu.sh/HBHT5/4421bc3e08.jpg

https://puu.sh/HBHVH/1b65fa24dc.jpg

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Formalities. In reality, crashes are posted all over social media, are often edited in videos with generic rock music making them exciting to watch and become the focal point of the regatta. Spithills capsize was posted on social media before the racing was posted! The AUS capsize was posted over, and over, and over again on social media, The Japan/ USA collision has become a “highlight” of the regatta. 

That is human nature. Every watch the News. Blacks and Police make exciting viewing because the dip shits are always fighting the police. 

Even with F1 people get tired of watching a parade with Merc out in front every race. So they change things up to mix things up.

I've done OD match racing ( it' been a while) and it was extremely close all the time.

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On 4/21/2021 at 7:25 AM, Horn Rock said:

Pete's so freaking good they're nixing the jib on the Kiwi boat so the other teams have a chance.

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I thought the Kiwis sailed well considering the lack of practice.

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