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I had to stop and take a photo of this today (not like I'm pushed for time during lockdown ). Looks like my youngest likes SailGP. Perhaps the boats are just easier to build with lego than the foiling

i didnt bag the ac dipshit. quite strangely you identify yourself with that event and you feel like if someone bags on you, that means the event. i thought it was good. you on the other hand must be f

Some of you are truly amusing. Let's start with a simple truth. This event was probably the best televised sailing I have ever seen. Sure, there is room for improvement but the racing was epic, t

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https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/great-britain-wins-sailgp-great-sound/?fbclid=IwAR3FoiGk6zFVm8lbt_e6jov7kelnlf_db_YXH1T2JFDHIBJkeQBj1SHC7Aw

Onboard footage of Japan colliding with USA. Interesting comments from Nate about the event and the lack of training.

Agree with the author about how dangerous it was out there. One death or serious injury and it'll be all over for GP. Wuss might want to consider that before condoning the demolition derby aspect of the racing. Could be exposing himself to some serious liability if the event was deemed unsafe.

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1 minute ago, Horn Rock said:

https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/great-britain-wins-sailgp-great-sound/?fbclid=IwAR3FoiGk6zFVm8lbt_e6jov7kelnlf_db_YXH1T2JFDHIBJkeQBj1SHC7Aw

Onboard footage of Japan colliding with USA. Interesting comments from Nate about the event and the lack of training.

Agree with the author about how dangerous it was out there. One death or serious injury and it'll be all over for GP. Wuss might want to consider that before condoning the demolition derby aspect of the racing. Could be exposing himself to some serious liability if the event was deemed unsafe.

Hilarious! This isn't anymore dangerous as when AM Capsized in Auckland.

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6 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Hilarious! This isn't anymore dangerous as when AM Capsized in Auckland.

In over 3 months of sailing there wasn't one collision in the entire ACWS/PC/AC event. GP had two collisions in two days. If I was an Insurance assessor I know which event I'd be advising was risky.

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31 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Can't say I'm a huge fan of the reaching starts. There's no pre-start jockeying. All the boats just spread across the line doing time on distance.

With eight boats in a confined starting area, the reaching start makes sense. A lot easier for the punters to understand, as well.

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11 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

In over 3 months of sailing there wasn't one collision in the entire ACWS/PC/AC event. GP had two collisions in two days. If I was an Insurance assessor I know which event I'd be advising was risky.

You are greatly exaggerating here and so is the guy who said SailGP is dangerous! Chris Draper did a Sommersault-Salto in Cowes and wasn't hurt.

Meanwhile Cooper Dressler had to cut Terry Hutchinson loose after AM capsized because Terry was stuck underneath the Mainsail!

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7 minutes ago, accnick said:

With eight boats in a confined starting area, the reaching start makes sense.

Yeah I can see that, but most other around the cans fleet racing has upwind starts - although not going at these speeds.

12 minutes ago, accnick said:

A lot easier for the punters to understand, as well.

Safer too I guess.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Go back through season 1. Plenty of crashes and near misses.

 

F50s tip over, so do AC75s... 

But the AC is not and never will be the Formula 1 of Sailing - ever!

Which, if you can rub 2 sticks together and possess the ability to read, you'd realize that SailGP aims to be the F1 of sailing... yet you believe the complete opposite?

 

Moving on from this horse beating thread to nowhere....

 

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7 minutes ago, accnick said:

With eight boats in a confined starting area, the reaching start makes sense. A lot easier for the punters to understand, as well.

Here's a punter who doesn't understand how this can ever work in a fleet start. 

What happens if, before the start, the most leeward boat begins luffing all the windward boats? Doesn't even need to be luffing as he can just sail hard on the wind almost parallel to the line, causing chaos and carnage.

Do any special rules apply, or what am I missing?

 

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2 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Here's a punter who doesn't understand how this can ever work in a fleet start. 

What happens if, before the start, the most leeward boat begins luffing all the windward boats? Doesn't even need to be luffing as he can just sail hard on the wind almost parallel to the line, causing chaos and carnage.

Do any special rules apply, or what am I missing?

 

True, I guess they could and force the upwind boats to react but they’d likely be still leaving a boat or two at the top end of the line a clear launch off toward the reach mark - and why would you want to let them beat you to there? 
 

I like the reaching starts, it leaves open options after M1 and, as we saw, still-tight situations at the bottom gate. They should consider it in the next AC. 

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16 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

They should consider it in the next AC. 

Won't happen. The pre-start manoeuvering was good. Dumbing it down to reaching starts would detract.

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Probably PR cooked but it’s hard to argue with this comment by RC:

 “Quite simply that was the best racing I think I have ever seen on television for a sailing event. What a day, there was drama, fantastic quality of racing, lots of lead changes – it just had everything. Unfortunately it had a crash but you are going to get that in high level racing every now and then but it was really exciting stuff.“

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yachtingworld.com/news/sailgp-stunning-opening-weekend-hails-return-of-series-131238/amp

 

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3 hours ago, crashtack said:

There were a couple of absolutely shocking dives by PB to the top/bottom gates... either Te Rehutai has an incredible high/low mode we never saw, or he forgot how to turn the boat.

https://puu.sh/HBHT5/4421bc3e08.jpg

https://puu.sh/HBHVH/1b65fa24dc.jpg

I think it was a case of calling some laylines poorly.  

I remember well the upper image you posted. They were underlay. It was tough call whether to sail a high mode or to tack. He chose high mode (probably better than tacking ) but it was painful to watch.

Again, Peter has lost lots of races in his time and had boat speed issues. All the great sailors know that humility and figure out what they have to work on. 

The good outcome is that the "sailing deity" mystique has been burst and it turns out that PB is human after all and achieves his results like all good sailors, by working on his skills in each class and sharpening them until he is at the front of the fleet. The same can be said for Ben Ainslie, who looked terrible on Day 1 and only got through to the  final because USA and Japan tangled. But demonstrated that he was a work in progress and took two races off Sling.

Sling was incredible this weekend. Truly incredible against that field to get bullets in 4 out of 6 races and 2nd in other other two .   But he has experienced humility as well.

Large_DSC08429.jpg

Slingsby was the gold medal favourite going into the 2008 Olympic regatta. He'd won the last two World Champions and was in winning form. But he had a shocker, finishing 22nd overall.
To say I was devastated is an understatement. I had put all my energy over the past eight years into achieving one goal – Olympic Gold. To be honest, I had never in all that time even thought of any other result in China. So when I realised that it wasn’t going to happen, it really took me by surprise and emotionally I wasn’t ready for it. I found myself really questioning myself and my whole journey to get to that point.

After the Olympics, I kind of went into hiding for awhile. I just didn’t want to talk about it to anyone, not even family. Even now, writing this, I get emotional when I think of the feelings I had watching the medal race from the break wall

After the games had finished, I didn’t want to even think about what now lay in the future for me. I had always thought that after I won the Gold Medal that I would change classes and try to win Gold in 2012 in another class. Since this plan has been sidetracked, I was always answering questions about my future with 'I’ll take time off and think about it'.

Then over a dinner with past team mates he made an impromptu decision that he would try again in the Laser in 2012....and announced it. He wrote to sailworld and said  " I’ll leave you with a quote I read in a book about Mick Fanning, World Surfing Champion, who I admire:'Sometimes, when a man embarks on a mission, he can become impossible to stop'.

I think the China Olympic experience made Tom a better sailor. He did go back to the Laser campaign and he did finally gain that gold medal he so deserved but he had learnt about coming back from defeat so bad that it was despair. After that I think he is capable of coming back from anything.

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I figure from this first event that the likely top three teams come Italy (barring accidents and equipment failures) will be GBR, AUS, and JPN. With the likes of FRA, NZ and USA in the hunt too. Hats off to some good races by ESP and DEN but dang.. Tough crowd! 

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Here's a punter who doesn't understand how this can ever work in a fleet start. 

What happens if, before the start, the most leeward boat begins luffing all the windward boats? Doesn't even need to be luffing as he can just sail hard on the wind almost parallel to the line, causing chaos and carnage.

Do any special rules apply, or what am I missing?

 

If you look at the starts, the boats are rarely all lined up at the same angle and overlapped until the last few seconds, when they are all concentrating on building speed. The reaching leg is very short, and the first boat into the zone at the first mark is pretty much in control of the rounding unless he is overlapped to leeward (rule 18.2).

A leeward boat taking boats up prior to the start risks opening a gap to leeward the someone can slip through and sail a shorter distance to that first mark.

The tactics in the three-boat final are different from a conventional match race, because it's hard to match-race against two other evenly matched boats, particularly if they split, as Ainslie did in mid race. It was only very late in the race, with France clearly in third, that you saw more classic match racing between AUS and GBR as GBR protected a lead that was dwindling fast.

I really like the three-boat final rather than just a straight two-boat match race. If you choose to match race the boat that appears to be the immediate threat to your lead, you give up control over the third boat if he is sailing his own race.

It's a lot of fun watching many of the best skippers in the world going head-to-head in boats that are as near-identical as you can make them.

The AC has almost always been largely a designer's game, but this even is more clearly only a sailor's game (not that sailors are not critical in the AC) .

The lack of time in the boats showed in the first event, especially given all the changes compared to the boats in season 1.

Aside from the JPN/USA collision, this was a good start to this season. You couldn't have asked for a better venue or better conditions.

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2 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Here's a punter who doesn't understand how this can ever work in a fleet start. 

What happens if, before the start, the most leeward boat begins luffing all the windward boats? Doesn't even need to be luffing as he can just sail hard on the wind almost parallel to the line, causing chaos and carnage.

Do any special rules apply, or what am I missing?

 

what exactly would the leeward boat gain from doing this?

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

I figure from this first event that the likely top three teams come Italy (barring accidents and equipment failures) will be GBR, AUS, and JPN. With the likes of FRA, NZ and USA in the hunt too. Hats off to some good races by ESP and DEN but dang.. Tough crowd! 

ESP was one point away from displacing France and GBR from the final. In the 5th race ESP was leading GBR and would have gone through to the final. GBR passed to get 2nd in that race and ESP got 3rd , France was only 4th. ESP were in the running.

USA and JPN were in the points to make final until they collided.   FRA was in the final.

So while I agree than AUS was clearly  a finalist and GBR the only boat to beat AUS on the water....after that it is very close.  We know that PB and NZL will get in the hunt.  Honestly this is going to only get closer.

Tough Crowd!     is an understatement.

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@EYESAILOR

Interestingly enough: The same year Tom Slingsby finished 22nd in the Olympics Ainslie won his 3rd Gold Medal.

Whenever Slingsby and Ainslie crossed paths Ben mostly came on top of it.

Slingsby knows he can't beat Ainslie unless Ben and Crew screw it up.

That's why you hear all this Bantha Fight Talk from Tommy trying to under Bens Nerve!

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1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@EYESAILOR

Interestingly enough: The same year Tom Slingsby finished 22nd in the Olympics Ainslie won his 3rd Gold Medal.

Whenever Slingsby and Ainslie crossed paths Ben mostly came on top of it.

Slingsby knows he can't beat Ainslie unless Ben and Crew screw it up.

That's why you hear all this Bantha Fight Talk from Tommy trying to under Bens Nerve!

Yes as you know Ainslie was racing in the Finn.  Slingsby was in the Laser in 2008.   Sling had won everything in the Laser for 3 years , literally dominant. More dominant than any other sailing athlete in any class at the time.   He arrived in China , went out for practice and had no boat speed.

Ainslie has sailed with Sling but until now I dont think they have raced against each other at the helm. My understanding is that there is a very high degree of mutual admiration.

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2 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

ESP was one point away from displacing France and GBR from the final. In the 5th race ESP was leading GBR and would have gone through to the final. GBR passed to get 2nd in that race and ESP got 3rd , France was only 4th. ESP were in the running.

USA and JPN were in the points to make final until they collided.   FRA was in the final.

So while I agree than AUS was clearly  a finalist and GBR the only boat to beat AUS on the water....after that it is very close.  We know that PB and NZL will get in the hunt.  Honestly this is going to only get closer.

Tough Crowd!     is an understatement.

I don't think the Aussies can beat the Brits Head-to-Head. They have to hope the Brits get eliminated before the Final.

As far as FRA & ESP is concerned: Billy Besson and Phil Robertson struggled in the lighter win in 2019. Generally speaking Taranto looks more like a light wind Venue hence I expect Spithill, Outerridge and Burling to do better since they have more Experience keeping the Boat on its Foils when it gets lighter.

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3 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Here's a punter who doesn't understand how this can ever work in a fleet start. 

What happens if, before the start, the most leeward boat begins luffing all the windward boats? Doesn't even need to be luffing as he can just sail hard on the wind almost parallel to the line, causing chaos and carnage.

Do any special rules apply, or what am I missing?

 

What I am not missing is that you don't sail much. How can one leeward boat prevent a fleet to start ? Yes it could penalize one boat at their own expense while the others are crossing the line at 40 kts. Nonsense, not unusual from you.

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3 hours ago, Liquid said:

 

F50s tip over, so do AC75s... 

But the AC is not and never will be the Formula 1 of Sailing - ever!

Which, if you can rub 2 sticks together and possess the ability to read, you'd realize that SailGP aims to be the F1 of sailing... yet you believe the complete opposite?

 

Moving on from this horse beating thread to nowhere....

If you need to compare sailboat racing to motor racing you need different boats and different cars ..

F50 = Indycar .. both are one design fleet racing.

F1  = International Moth .. both are built by the teams to the own design and race in fleets.

AC = drag racing .. one on one in vehicles that they built themselves.

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8 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@EYESAILOR

SAIL GP is a "Sailors League". The Crew makes the Difference while in the AC unfortunately it now has become 80 maybe even 85 % Design Contest and only 15-20 % Sailing Skills. That is very sad in my view and contributed to the low participation in the last 3 Cup Cycles. We have gone from 3 Challengers in 2013 to 5 in 2017 back to 3 in 2021.

Right now @Forourselvesis glaring at the AC75 Class but watch him doing a 180 Degree U-Turn once he learns that Dalton & Ratcliffe have introduced a whole new bunch of OD Elements for AC37. Ray Davies, the ETNZ Sailing Coach hinted at a potentially a OD self-tacking jib control system for the next Cup.

I am honest: Over the last 5-6 years I only enjoyed 3 big Sailing Contests: The two Volvos 2014-15 & 2017-18 and SailGP. I was on the edge of my seat particularly during the 17-18 when Teams finished within minutes of each other after 5,000 NM + Legs. The OD VO65 were spectacular. I've the same feeling for SailGP now.

In the end it’s just personal preferences. You can argue all you like which is better, but in the end its down to an individual tastes. It’s like arguing over which color you prefer your car to be painted.  I like both forms of racing and enjoy the difference between the classes. 

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22 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Let's hope it won't happen but the AC had to suffer that and is not all over.

In my opinion the F50 seem more dangerous. The fact that a hull can lift up and come dashing down on another boats crew makes it more risky. On the other hand I like a bit of crash and bash. Sure made the racing interesting. 

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As a life long AC fan, I’ve been actively watching this sport since the 70’s.  So it’s good that another high stake premium foiling series has been developed. The AC and F50 are symbiotic to each other. The fact that ETNZ don’t have to spend mega bucks keeping  their sailing crew top flight is a profitable bonus. 
 

Can anyone explain how sailGP is funded. Is it coming out of uncle Larry rich pockets ?

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31 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

If you need to compare sailboat racing to motor racing you need different boats and different cars ..

F50 = Indycar .. both are one design fleet racing.

F1  = International Moth .. both are built by the teams to the own design and race in fleets.

AC = drag racing .. one on one in vehicles that they built themselves.

Great analogies except moth doesn’t feel right for the powerful beasts that are F1 cars

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7 minutes ago, mako23 said:

As a life long AC fan, I’ve been actively watching this sport since the 70’s.  So it’s good that another high stake premium foiling series has been developed. The AC and F50 are symbiotic to each other. The fact that ETNZ don’t have to spend mega bucks keeping  their sailing crew top flight is a profitable bonus. 
 

Can anyone explain how sailGP is funded. Is it coming out of uncle Larry rich pockets ?

A breakdown in revenue was given earlier in the thread.   From an interview by COO.  I recall the events cost $2-3m to host which is 75% funded by host city. Each team costs around $5m per annum which is slightly covered by sponsor sip . Larry covers the rest. They aim to be breakeven in 2-3 years

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9 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

What little knowledge you have about match racing vs fleet racing.

Match racing is boat on boat and often tight and close coverage.

It is not what most racing is about.  I speak as a fan of the AC but your comments make the AC sound less exciting.

In neither event are collisions, allowed , encouraged or tolerated.  There are penalties and they can extend into the score in sailGP over and above losing points for just that race.  IN AC, the worst is DSQ. In SailGP, it can be DSQ and then penalty points added as well.

They literally make videos about it.

They sell the product on it.

 

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6 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Can't say I'm a huge fan of the reaching starts. There's no pre-start jockeying. All the boats just spread across the line doing time on distance.

That’s a fleet racing thing, match racing reaching starts in the 34th and 35th cups were better than the starts we just got in Auckland. 

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Now this is something I can get behind. Teams who are independent of each other, boats that were designed from scratch, not attempting to imitate another boat/ team while at the same time not acknowledging that thats what they're doing.

 

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American Magic are missing a trick here - they should get involved keeping race sharp and in the tactical development loop.  BA pulled off some really interesting stuff this time and it will only heat up.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Now this is something I can get behind. Teams who are independent of each other, boats that were designed from scratch, not attempting to imitate another boat/ team while at the same time not acknowledging that thats what they're doing.

 

Unfortunately may only be viable due to Alinghi/Bertarelli support.

Would hate to go down that rabbit hole with AC again.

Like the idea tho. Wing mast/conventional sails/foils/minimal power (they do have an auto flight controller apparently).

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2 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Now this is something I can get behind. Teams who are independent of each other, boats that were designed from scratch, not attempting to imitate another boat/ team while at the same time not acknowledging that thats what they're doing.

 

Looks like another OD class that you can say isn’t up to standard should Burling et all enter and fail at. 
 

not that they would enter an event funded by Alinghi, GD would have them on the naughty step immediately.

 

comes to something when you, the ultimate kiwi fan, is endorsing an Alinghi backed series over the one you team  are struggling in. No guts for the fight? Surely they need your support more now than ever?  Shameful behaviour ;-) 
 

 

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Wuss: "So with that in mind, Slingers, you have to not win the first round OK?"

Slingers: "WTF!  You said there was a bonus to the winner of each round!"

Wuss: "Yeah well, the series has been scripted to play on the rivalry mate, let's stick to it."

Slingers: "Fuck you kiwi cunt, I want my money for the win!"

Wuss: "Ok ok calm down sport, we will give you the bonus to throw it, happy now?"

Slingers: "Mmmmmm, alrighty then."

Wuss: "On the condition that you say in the pre-race interview that you are the best sailor in the world."

Slingers:  "Are you fucking crazy?  I'll be the laughing stock of the pro-circuit, no fucking way!"

Wuss: "You want the money or not mate, the rest of the pro guys already know how this works, the game has changed, try and keep up FFS."

 

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22 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Looks like another OD class that you can say isn’t up to standard should Burling et all enter and fail at. 
 

not that they would enter an event funded by Alinghi, GD would have them on the naughty step immediately.

 

comes to something when you, the ultimate kiwi fan, is endorsing an Alinghi backed series over the one you team  are struggling in. No guts for the fight? Surely they need your support more now than ever?  Shameful behaviour ;-) 
 

 

Its a class where they aren't pretending to be something they're not. They're not trying to copy a boat that beat their ass while pretending that beating never happened. 

Its a design that isn't trying to be better than whats being used in the Americas Cup, without actually being better than whats being used in the Americas Cup.

Its not a series thats pretending to have "National teams" while having fully fledged Americas Cup teams as "emerging nations"

What a joke SailGP is.

But then again, smart move by Dalts! letting Russell and Larry pay his AC teams salaries so he doesn't have to.

Smart. Very smart.

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4 hours ago, Forourselves said:

They literally make videos about it.

They sell the product on it.

 

Told ya,

Reality TV complete with the annoying as fuck poster!!

That ain't sailing.

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1 hour ago, chesirecat said:

American Magic are missing a trick here - they should get involved keeping race sharp and in the tactical development loop.  BA pulled off some really interesting stuff this time and it will only heat up.

Theres a few issues with that, my understanding is there is no love lost between NYYC and LE, and SailGP is very much "pay to play" unless you're underwritten by Larry so that would have involved the NYYC coughing up enough money to sponsor the USA team and kick off Jimmy Spithall... (Theres after all a limited number of boats, and having two American teams would have meant kicking off another team, which would probably be more unpalatable).

Thats before you get to the fact that in general the cup sailors would all be out of contract, so you have to get them back together to reassemble a team with a boat they've never sailed before, or build a new team from scratch, when so far you haven't even announced if you'll continue formally...

Both the Brits and the Kiwis have the benefit of knowing they'll be in the next cup cycle, and even then this is in the case of the Kiwis not a "ETNZ" campaign, and INEOS seems to have taken a less sponsored role now they've got their foot in the door?

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9 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/great-britain-wins-sailgp-great-sound/?fbclid=IwAR3FoiGk6zFVm8lbt_e6jov7kelnlf_db_YXH1T2JFDHIBJkeQBj1SHC7Aw

Onboard footage of Japan colliding with USA. Interesting comments from Nate about the event and the lack of training.

Agree with the author about how dangerous it was out there. One death or serious injury and it'll be all over for GP. Wuss might want to consider that before condoning the demolition derby aspect of the racing. Could be exposing himself to some serious liability if the event was deemed unsafe.

Which other sports do we ban if they are not "safe"? Rugby? Cricket?  The nanny state knows no bounds......

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31 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Its a class where they aren't pretending to be something they're not. They're not trying to copy a boat that beat their ass while pretending that beating never happened. 

Its a design that isn't trying to be better than whats being used in the Americas Cup, without actually being better than whats being used in the Americas Cup.

Its not a series thats pretending to have "National teams" while having fully fledged Americas Cup teams as "emerging nations"

What a joke SailGP is.

But then again, smart move by Dalts! letting Russell and Larry pay his AC teams salaries so he doesn't have to.

Smart. Very smart.

The ramblings of the defeated..

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16 minutes ago, dullers said:

Which other sports do we ban if they are not "safe"? Rugby? Cricket?  The nanny state knows no bounds......

Did you see how that stay sliced through that carbon fibre bow? Imagine one of the hulls sweeping across another boat slamming a body into one of those stays slicing someone in half. An extreme scenario, but not totally beyond the realms of possibility, given how high these boat fly. The way the Japanese boat mounted the American one was very dangerous. Lucky no one was on that side eh? I agree with Mark Reid - it was dangerous out there.

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Ironic that SailGP fans are defending a boat thats clearly far more dangerous and done more slicing and dicing than the AC75. Oh the difference a few months makes lol

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Just now, Forourselves said:

SailGP is so last week...

You should try to enjoy the ups and downs of sport and the different variations that it offers. Now we get to see the same sailors in identical vessels with no design advantage. It is a more pure form of racing and different. Congratulations to NZ on winning the Americas cup.  Now be a gentleman and enjoy the ups and downs with your team as I do mine.

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7 minutes ago, dullers said:

You should try to enjoy the ups and downs of sport and the different variations that it offers. Now we get to see the same sailors in identical vessels with no design advantage. It is a more pure form of racing and different. Congratulations to NZ on winning the Americas cup.  Now be a gentleman and enjoy the ups and downs with your team as I do mine.

Wonder if the enthusiasm would be the same if they were to line up in a OD 49er fleet against Burling and Tuke?

 

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5 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Wonder if the enthusiasm would be the same if they were to line up in a OD 49er fleet against Burling and Tuke?

 

Any other what iferfeckeries?  We could keep changing boat designs to suit our own particular heroes....What are you? Nine years old? I am pretty sure your pin up boy who is a world class sailor will get to grips with the cats in sail GP. Do you know what makes a truly great sailor? Some one who can win across the classes. That is why Ainsley, Slingers (the greatest sailor of all time, he said it) and Burling are in a class of their own. Match racing gives us an idea about their true sailing class. Being a bad winner and a saw loser is not a great look but it is the look you are after. You remember that in another era people understood better Rudyard Kipling's poem "IF". Read it, it is a good ethos to live by.

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Wonder if the enthusiasm would be the same if they were to line up in a OD 49er fleet against Burling and Tuke?

 

lets put them all in Finns.. I mean that makes just as much sense..

 

when you say put them all on OD 49ers, you mean box fresh random boats and rigs or the finessed set up that Burling and Tuke have after hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent trialling masts sails hulls etc to give them their ideal set up?

at least sail GP is a neutral boat, no one has a historical advantage of unlimited testing its all kit supplied by the organiser and talent is tested not budget and unlimited testing as it is with Olympic OD fleets.

Pete was quoted as saying he was confident they would do well based on how quickly Ben adapted and that they should be on the pace as fast if not faster. that 100% didn't happen.

 

for the greatest apparent wind foiling sailor that's pretty poor, look at all those calling for Bens head after the AC as he 'wasn't up to standard' compared with all the foiling greats that populate the top of the AC and Sail GP.

 

two events, two wins against that higher rated opposition.  

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On 4/26/2021 at 5:41 AM, erdb said:

I've never been annoyed this much watching otherwise excellent racing or in fact any sailing ever. 

The sailors and sailing are awesome, boats are good for trashing around short courses - how can they screw up everything else so badly?

Which genius thought they should film the pre-start head on from the other side of the Atlantic? Who thinks viewers like kph more than kn, when every sailor interviewed talks about knots and the commentators keep converting kn - kph back and forth all the time. Remember the obsession with the 50 knt barrier? Is it now going to be the magical 92.6 km/h barrier? The only logical explanation is they wanted to show higher numbers than the AC. Pathetic.

How did they manage to fuck up the graphics? It's been working fine since AC34!

The main commentator is extremely annoying. While he's actually making good calls, that voice and the constant hype... I had to turn the sound off.

The fake rivalry thing - so cringey.  Best sailor in the word... even if it was true, and it's not, Slingsby should know better. I was so happy to see him lose.

They should just forget about using this series to get non-sailor masses interested. Even for a seasoned sailor it's pretty hard to understand what's going on. If Freddie Carr is confused sometimes while having all the data and monitors available, imagine how much a newbie wanna-be sailor would understand. Maybe they should first try to convince sailors to watch this.

Isn't it funny that Leo with a couple of cameras and volunteers around Tally Ho gets more than twice the viewers in 1 day than the multimillion dollar SailGP? Interestingly no one is screaming around Tally Ho, no one claims they are the best caulkers in the world, and even when the topic is highly technical, somehow viewers seem to be interested in learning new things without having to dumb down everything to Nascar fan level.

I could of course just not watch it, but what's annoying is that I'd actually like this series to be a success. Can't they find someone who could put this together into an enjoyable package?

Show it as a sailing regatta. If you want fans interested in sailing, educate them about it. Don't try to convert it into car racing.

Instead of cooking up fake rivalries, how about emphasizing sportsmanship and friendship among the sailors. Which is actually real, since they all sailed together at some point in their carrier and some of them have been best buddies forever.

Eight boats are already almost too many. If they get two more teams, it's going to be total chaos. If they want that many boats, they should divide them into separate fleets for the preliminary races. That way, once a race finishes, the other one can start immediately saving us from half an hour of annoying puff pieces to fill time. 

Totally spot on!

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1 hour ago, JonRowe said:

Theres a few issues with that, my understanding is there is no love lost between NYYC and LE, and SailGP is very much "pay to play" unless you're underwritten by Larry so that would have involved the NYYC coughing up enough money to sponsor the USA team and kick off Jimmy Spithall... (Theres after all a limited number of boats, and having two American teams would have meant kicking off another team, which would probably be more unpalatable).

Thats before you get to the fact that in general the cup sailors would all be out of contract, so you have to get them back together to reassemble a team with a boat they've never sailed before, or build a new team from scratch, when so far you haven't even announced if you'll continue formally...

Both the Brits and the Kiwis have the benefit of knowing they'll be in the next cup cycle, and even then this is in the case of the Kiwis not a "ETNZ" campaign, and INEOS seems to have taken a less sponsored role now they've got their foot in the door?

My POV for what its worth, is one either wants to win the AC or not and  there are no half measures. If one wants to win, just like seeking an Olympic medal,  one has to be prepared to sacrifice everything, mental damage, family being torn apart, financial destitution - the works. Ainslie, Spithill  and Burling/Tuke know this. There is no other circuit which offers this level of competition in high speed team foiling with numerous parallels in tactical, technical and language challenges. It could be three years before the next AC racing so that's a big hole in racing where every week counts. Hannah MIlls with her crew spent a fair amount of time weighing whether Hannah could afford to loose just two weeks in their 470 training for the SailGp experience. Hopefully its paid off, she's an astute highly resilient cookie with plenty to offer.

 

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15 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Not just the starts either.

Nor are the front four immune. Hamilton and Verstappen in the first few turns in Italy until Hamilton was forced off the track.  If that is a model for how close quarters racing is for AC then I must have missed that AC race.

Look, the preamble to the races went on about the boats being so fast "they are barely under control". 

This is just a marketing point of difference suggesting that if you watch you may see: cat capsized, carbon bits floating, maybe worse.

This is circus, not what most sailors know from their rum race.

Bring on the clowns.

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And I enjoy the race, . And truly appreciate the level of skill displayed, but no practice time is bullshit and will keep the boats flopping all over the show. Ffs when etnz arrived in bda the rest of the fleet was exactly where the gp crowd is now, etnz looked like gods as they didn't flop around like fish.

It's dumbed down on every front.

Edit: out

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Denmark were logging a shit load of hours way before anyone else arrived and that got them where?

all the teams signed up for teh same thing, plug and play restricted practice and having to deal with it, could teams have arrived in Bermuda sooner? sure they could, did covid help? nope, did the ozzys falling over in the USA boat help? nope

all the teams just got on with it, its the fans (including those that said they wouldn't support their home team or the event) that are the ones getting bent out of shape.

 

to clarify though I am only going at Clarky so much due to how he was through the whole of AC 36. will Pete and co win an event? probably they will and if they do fair play credit where credit is due, but the entry for the most lauded apparent wind sailor into what should have been a cake walk for him and his team was less than stellar. blaming that on the boat when they are all the same is a bit churlish and its not an excuse that Pete is using.

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15 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

My POV for what its worth, is one either wants to win the AC or not and  there are no half measures. If one wants to win, just like seeking an Olympic medal,  one has to be prepared to sacrifice everything, mental damage, family being torn apart, financial destitution - the works. Ainslie, Spithill  and Burling/Tuke know this.

Hey you're not on my ignore list so your POV is equally valid to mine in my eyes :lol:

I don't specifically disagree with you, only that in reality there isn't that duality in choice, there is no wrinkled AC grand master going "no there is no try, only do or do not", there is a finite, even with billionaires with a B, stack of cash and resources. There is always a choice between what you want to do, what you can do and what you opt to do, and sometimes things like egos and politics get in the way. 

Ben got involved last season through a bit of muscle with INEOS backing, and theres no way he'd get kicked out after the Sydney performance, and theres no way he'd not want to go do this season for the reasons you describe. All he needed was enough of a cheque to get that side ticked off, and I could see either Larry or Jim writing that, maybe a combination given the reduced signage.

Jimmy is a force of personality in his own right as well as a talented sailor, I could see him giving Russell a call, I could see Russell giving him a call to kick start the American team into the next league. Larry's picked up the tab more than a few times for him and I don't recall his selection really being an issue so game on.

Pete and Blair are harder to reason about, as I hardly suspect ETNZ reached out to Russell to get on board, but its a PR coup for SailGP to have them, and as you point out, good training for them and they got their charity on the signage, I strongly suspect that was a Russell called them.

But who do American Magic have? THutch is a talented tactician, but he's not going to be on these boats, realistically, he didn't want to helm the AC75. Deano? Well there is history with Russell and he's not American and there already is a Kiwi team, and he will not control the purse strings at the NYYC, so seriously, who do you try to send? I think the lack of a cohesive team is the main issue of could "we" (from the American Magic perspective) send to SailGP?

Of course maybe this is all a big bait and switch and Jimmy will be helming American Magic next go around ;)

 

10 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

Hannah Mills with her crew spent a fair amount of time weighing whether Hannah could afford to loose just two weeks in their 470 training for the SailGP experience. Hopefully it has paid off, she's an astute highly resilient cookie with plenty to offer.

Well you would, you have to ask if two weeks away from your current campaign is worth it for a chance at a slot on a SailGP team, thats a risk reward scenario, you will lose two weeks of training time, you may get a future career path out of it. Hannah has mentioned on at least one podcast that she is considering retiring from the Olympics after 2020, and so it probably is worth the risk as there are too few opportunities like this around for her, as talented as she is, due to gender equality issues in the sport. You only have to look at the list of trialists for the British team to see 5/6 incredibly talented sailors competing for that one slot that Russel has mandated for the end of the year. 

 

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15 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

 

Of course maybe this is all a big bait and switch and Jimmy will be helming American Magic next go around ;)

 

 

It wont be Dean.      AM's biggest challenge is finding an afterguard that matches their technology.

In the absence of a nationality rule, they are going to want a Slingsby or Otteridge. With a nationality rule they could consider Spithill who is a USA resident.   After Jimmy, the pickings are slim i the USA . New talent has not surfaced on the US sailing scene for a long time.  

Agree that the very best and the hopeful in the AC want to be at these Sail GP events to hone their skills or to establish their credentials.  

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35 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

blaming that on the boat when they are all the same is a bit churlish and its not an excuse that Pete is using.

There was some talk that there were some hydro and foil control problems on first day from the commentators. But I admire Pete for n0t blaming the boat.

He is focused on getting better and he will. By midway thru this series this fleet is going to be very very tough. 

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Denmark were logging a shit load of hours way before anyone else arrived and that got them where?

 

See my earlier post below, as well as the video. They had to sail without a working wind indicator after the nosedive, which made it harder to call laylines etc. compared to the other boats.

On 4/25/2021 at 11:01 AM, Misbehavin' said:

The danish TV broadcast interviewed Nicolai Sehested after the races, where he explained that Denmark nosedived and swamped both hulls, as well as breaking the foremost part of their bowsprit with sensors etc., which they didn't have time to properly fix before R2, so in retrospect they should rather have continued than pulling out of R1.

Edit: Just saw this onboard replay of their nosedive on their Instagram, you can see the camera being thrown out of whack.

https://www.instagram.com/p/COD2MmzDnHt/

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Phenomenal weekend of racing.

I do think the new teams, minimal practice time and high winds on day 2 led to a little more excitement than you might see the rest of the season, but that was a hell of a show.

Not surprising that the only people with complaints are the Kiwi fans. 

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6 hours ago, dullers said:

Which other sports do we ban if they are not "safe"? Rugby? Cricket?  The nanny state knows no bounds......

American football, gymnastics, open water swims...

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BTW, since it's a classic moment in sailing now, can I get the link to the interview where Slingers said he was the best in the world? Thanks. 

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11 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

BTW, since it's a classic moment in sailing now, can I get the link to the interview where Slingers said he was the best in the world? Thanks. 

 

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I don't understand @Horn Rock's reasoning about "SailGP being too Dangerous":

Whenever you have a Sport that relies on Speed like SailGP, F1, MotoGP, America's Cup there is always a Danger Element when you do this and step into that Sailboat or Car.

I've been watching F1 since I was a Teenager and the Cars today, the Courses, etc. are waaay more safe now compared to 1994 when Aryton Senna, Roland Ratzenberger and Karl Wendlinger had these horrendous crashes resulting in Senna's & Ratzenbergers Death. In the last few years we had incredible mind-blowing crashes in the F1 but the Drivers suffered 99.9 % no harm.

You can't eliminate the Danger Component completely and I think the F50's are as safe as they can be. There is always a rest-risk involved in this.

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48 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

 

American football, gymnastics, open water swims...

... jumping out of perfectly good aircraft...  :D

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Are there any rules that prevent SailGP teams from building their own surrogate cat/wing for training?

If teams start to take this series seriously, time spent training between races could be a major factor.

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6 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Denmark were logging a shit load of hours way before anyone else arrived and that got them where?

all the teams signed up for teh same thing, plug and play restricted practice and having to deal with it, could teams have arrived in Bermuda sooner? sure they could, did covid help? nope, did the ozzys falling over in the USA boat help? nope

all the teams just got on with it, its the fans (including those that said they wouldn't support their home team or the event) that are the ones getting bent out of shape.

 

to clarify though I am only going at Clarky so much due to how he was through the whole of AC 36. will Pete and co win an event? probably they will and if they do fair play credit where credit is due, but the entry for the most lauded apparent wind sailor into what should have been a cake walk for him and his team was less than stellar. blaming that on the boat when they are all the same is a bit churlish and its not an excuse that Pete is using.

Remember when the Challengers blamed the OD FCS even though those were all the same?

A bit churlish huh?

Everyone signed up for the same thing then too, but it didn't stop everyone (including you) from bitching about it, and you never heard Pete say anything about it then either! So get off your high horse and STFU.

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Remember when the Challengers blamed the OD FCS even though those were all the same?

A bit churlish huh?

Everyone signed up for the same thing then too, but it didn't stop everyone (including you) from bitching about it, and you never heard Pete say anything about it then either! So get off your high horse and STFU.

 

 

 

Hmm firstly I didnt blame FCS, secondly something was clearly up with it as it was fixed after the WS event, how do you fix a OD bit of kit if it’s functioning correctly?
 

Then I didn’t sit there have a strop and say it was all shit so they wouldn’t get my support only to crop up in the relevant  thread blaming everyone else for my chosen teams performance. 
 

my high horse? What’s good for the goose etc, the amount of crowing you have done? Haha! 
 

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2 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

 

American football, gymnastics, open water swims...

Round the world yacht races, they all carry risk. 

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55 minutes ago, erdb said:

Are there any rules that prevent SailGP teams from building their own surrogate cat/wing for training?

If teams start to take this series seriously, time spent training between races could be a major factor.

I imagine that the rules do not allow additional practice away from practice times allocated by saialGP.    I dont know this........but to mantain the level playing field that would be the right rule to have.

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5 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I imagine that the rules do not allow additional practice away from practice times allocated by saialGP.    I dont know this........but to mantain the level playing field that would be the right rule to have.

I must admit they are making a good job of trying to keep it based on sailing skills against sailing skills.

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10 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Hmm firstly I didnt blame FCS, secondly something was clearly up with it as it was fixed after the WS event, how do you fix a OD bit of kit if it’s functioning correctly?
 

Then I didn’t sit there have a strop and say it was all shit so they wouldn’t get my support only to crop up in the relevant  thread blaming everyone else for my chosen teams performance. 
 

my high horse? What’s good for the goose etc, the amount of crowing you have done? Haha! 
 

So does that mean there was, and still is something wrong with the F50? Its constantly being "fixed" too.

You sat there like every other hater, talking shit about ETNZ, Kiwi's, GD, the AC75 and anything else you could think of.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. You're the one saying it should've been a cake walk for them, and no practice is an excuse.

But nice back tracking. 

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This is what's wrong with sailing journalists. When our own sports writers fumble all the time what are we supposed to do.

Japan collided with the US not the other way around

From Latitude 38

USA-capsized-SailGP-BB207363.jpg

Team USA’s day went sideways. Their F50 capsized during the first race on Day 2 after colliding with Nate Outteridge’s Team Japan.

© 2021 Bob Martin / SailGP
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8 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

I imagine that the rules do not allow additional practice away from practice times allocated by saialGP.    I dont know this........but to mantain the level playing field that would be the right rule to have.

This certainly prevents expensive practice boats as mentioned above, and expensive practice time, but it also limits skill development. Is this what SGP wants?

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

This certainly prevents expensive practice boats as mentioned above, and expensive practice time, but it also limits skill development. Is this what SGP wants?

I think they should allow more practice time , and perhaps even extra practice time to newer teams....or even practice time on a handicap basis (bottom 4 get more time than top four )   BUT the question was .....can they be allowed to build their own personal boats or commission a practice boat for their own use.     I think that would be a bridge too far. 

Note the Formula one limits practice time equally ......there is even an allowance for filming time for pR (which teams sometimes use for practice)

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SailGP was so close.   On leg 3 of the final fleet race, Ben was not in the final.

Its worth re-watching leg 3 of Race 5.   Spain are in 2nd .....approaching the boundary .  GBR are back in 4th.  Its looking like the final will be AUS, FRA and Spain. 

When Spain tacks at the boundary and ducks AUS, and falls off the foils doing so......that alters the regatta.  It opens the door for Ben to get into the top 3. 

After 5 races , there was only 1 point between 2nd place and 4th place.  It really doesnt get any closer than that. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

So does that mean there was, and still is something wrong with the F50? Its constantly being "fixed" too.

You sat there like every other hater, talking shit about ETNZ, Kiwi's, GD, the AC75 and anything else you could think of.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. You're the one saying it should've been a cake walk for them, and no practice is an excuse.

But nice back tracking. 

Proof or stfu, you won’t provide proof (there isn’t any, certainly not about the boats) and any discussion on ETNZ and the unique way they were funded, or Lord Dalton was matched equally in your criticism of INEOS, Ben and the British challenge so let’s not split hairs eh?

nor will you stfu so I guess you are a lost cause, bit like The NZ sail GP attempt. 

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29 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

SailGP was so close.   On leg 3 of the final fleet race, Ben was not in the final.

Its worth re-watching leg 3 of Race 5.   Spain are in 2nd .....approaching the boundary .  GBR are back in 4th.  Its looking like the final will be AUS, FRA and Spain. 

When Spain tacks at the boundary and ducks AUS, and falls off the foils doing so......that alters the regatta.  It opens the door for Ben to get into the top 3. 

After 5 races , there was only 1 point between 2nd place and 4th place.  It really doesnt get any closer than that. 

 

 

 

Race 5 was the pick of the races.

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

I think they should allow more practice time , and perhaps even extra practice time to newer teams....or even practice time on a handicap basis (bottom 4 get more time than top four )   BUT the question was .....can they be allowed to build their own personal boats or commission a practice boat for their own use.     I think that would be a bridge too far. 

Note the Formula one limits practice time equally ......there is even an allowance for filming time for pR (which teams sometimes use for practice)

I think your idea about practice time for newer teams would be hard to do and not in the spirit of match racing.How would you class a "new team"? In Sydney Ben was I think in a new team( I am not sure of that) and manged to dominate the opposition.  I think the fact that the boats are identical is good. I think the Kiwis got to use the Brit boat for practice but with their sails on it.

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23 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Proof or stfu, you won’t provide proof (there isn’t any, certainly not about the boats) and any discussion on ETNZ and the unique way they were funded, or Lord Dalton was matched equally in your criticism of INEOS, Ben and the British challenge so let’s not split hairs eh?

nor will you stfu so I guess you are a lost cause, bit like The NZ sail GP attempt. 

New control system, new rudders, new wings, new just about everything, after 1 season. Just go to the SailGP YT channel. Indepth video and discussion on new wings, new control systems etc.

You mean the commercial funding model? Lol like TNZ are the only commercially funded sailing team in the world! 
The British were and are being criticised by pretty much everyone including a lot of the UK! The amount of funding they had - even they said themselves, there are no excuses this time. In the team video Meet the team - Giovanni Belgrano said exactly that. They have everything they need. They are a second generation team with the funding, ghe experience and the people to win the cup so there are no excuses.

As for the NZ SailGP team being a lost cause, hahaha famous last words! Ill remember to quote you on this at the end of the season and watch you back track and say “I didn’t say that” lol

 

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22 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Can't say I'm a huge fan of the reaching starts. There's no pre-start jockeying. All the boats just spread across the line doing time on distance.

I like it and it is just different.  The pick of the starts was watching the battle of the Brits and Aussies. The Brits would be to left of Slingers and go for a slightly high and slow mode to get advantage to the first mark. The Aussies liked the low fast mode most of the time.

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19 minutes ago, dullers said:

I think your idea about practice time for newer teams would be hard to do and not in the spirit of match racing.How would you class a "new team"? In Sydney Ben was I think in a new team( I am not sure of that) and manged to dominate the opposition.  I think the fact that the boats are identical is good. I think the Kiwis got to use the Brit boat for practice but with their sails on it.

Okay I concede it would be hard to define , one just knew the Danes were unfamiliar with the boat or any boat like it. .  

Anyway......its all a balancing act between practice and cost of having the boats there way early.

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