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Will Any Team Ever Fly A Code Zero?


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On the light air days I assume a C0 would help them get on the foils downwind at least. In Dec and now Jan we’ve had some races where one or two teams spent a LOT of time in displacement mode with negative VMG. I am guessing headsail changes during a race are unworkable on AC75s, and they can’t go upwind effectively with a C0 - is that why? Looks like the prod might be unnecessary, though it’s a new class so they couldn’t know?

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You are right they cant switch sails during a race so the C0 would be a big gamble.  Unless it for sure will be low wind range and both players put them in play before the start.   It would be fun to watch though.  More fun if they could actualy do sail changes during a race.   

For this cycle the C0's and sprit structures might end up being a colossal waste of money, manpower and wasteful impact on the environment.

My guess -- If the class is kept for the next cycle C0's and sprits will be dropped from the design rule and the low wind limit will be increased.  Gotta keep the TV viewers interested.

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The code zeros are on a furler aren't they? If so, why couldn't you unfurl the C0 to get on the foils then roll it up? I recognize it would be a huge amount of windage, but if it gets you from 7 knots to 30 knots of boatspeed then the windage seems like a worthwhile penalty to pay.

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I'd prefer to see wind limits dropped and more sail changes allowed.

But that aside. The important bit is not what wind speed they can get into the foils, the first key is when they drop off. And that wind speed is roughly around the 6.5kt limit i think.

So they can get towed up onto foils pre-start, and race around with a jib - unless they hit a lull (as they did on day 2 of course). So unless the wind is near the bottom of conditions AND their are lulls beneath it, the C0 would be a non-starter. Moreover, all that drag from the C0 would make it more likely that you do fall off the foils in the first place.

That is before you get to how much worse your vmg is with the C0 if you can sail with either and whether a C0 would get you round in time

 

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19 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

The code zeros are on a furler aren't they? If so, why couldn't you unfurl the C0 to get on the foils then roll it up? I recognize it would be a huge amount of windage, but if it gets you from 7 knots to 30 knots of boatspeed then the windage seems like a worthwhile penalty to pay.

Pretty sure they do not furl and are non overlapping.  They remove the jib/structural luff.

 

 

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We will see in March - personally I expect all the teams to have a contingency for flying them in the extreme light expected conditions but aren't doing it yet. 

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Not sure what the wind speed was in that video, but looks more than most of day 2. And in that video they fell off the foils on every jibe and tack. Whereas da 2 the stayed up in a lot of the wind range

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A lot is being made of the drag penalty once up on the foils, but there is a balance aspect to consider as well. With the additional sail area, they must not be able to get to their desired settings elsewhere in the configuration once the boat is up and ripping. I'm sure the "structural headstay" as others are referring to it, is connected to hydraulics under deck, and they can play luff (jib Cunningham) and rake fairly easily, which may not be as feasible with the code zero tacked out onto the bow sprit.

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15 minutes ago, atwinda said:

A lot is being made of the drag penalty once up on the foils, but there is a balance aspect to consider as well. With the additional sail area, they must not be able to get to their desired settings elsewhere in the configuration once the boat is up and ripping. I'm sure the "structural headstay" as others are referring to it, is connected to hydraulics under deck, and they can play luff (jib Cunningham) and rake fairly easily, which may not be as feasible with the code zero tacked out onto the bow sprit.

Given the choice between going 7 knots with proper cunningham tension and rake and going 30 knots with improper cunningham tension and rake I know which I would choose.

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52 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Not sure what the wind speed was in that video, but looks more than most of day 2. And in that video they fell off the foils on every jibe and tack. Whereas da 2 the stayed up in a lot of the wind range

Worth noting, even when they splashdown, its not for long. If they can splash down, but get back up quickly, and accelerate, that will be the key to racing the code 0's. There is one part of the video, where they look to be practicing take off with a code zero, and it seems to happen pretty quickly. 

I think it will be a big call whether or not to select a zero for a given race, but ultimately I think we'll see at least one team going with the zero for at least one race in either the Prada Cup Final or the match itself.

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Just now, Forourselves said:

Worth noting, even when they splashdown, its not for long.

Can't really tell from that video, because there is a cut every time they splash.

Have you seen that elsewhere?

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2 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Can't really tell from that video, because there is a cut every time they splash.

Have you seen that elsewhere?

This is a clip of LR from back in November showing a fully foiling maneuver with a zero. Obviously there is only the one maneuver in the video but they are able to stay up.

 

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2 hours ago, yoyo said:

 

My guess -- If the class is kept for the next cycle C0's and sprits will be dropped from the design rule and the low wind limit will be increased.  Gotta keep the TV viewers interested.

Gotta keep everyone interested.

The tech is cool but most of the actual racing is boring.

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55 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Given the choice between going 7 knots with proper cunningham tension and rake and going 30 knots with improper cunningham tension and rake I know which I would choose.

We hear a lot about "loosing rudder grip" etc, and that's when the crashes happen. What I am suggesting, is that they end up with an out of balance sail plan to below water foil configuration and it becomes too risky to even consider the code zero.

So the question becomes, would you rather go 7 knots or be on your side?

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The C0 bluff anyone?

Hoist, wait for the competition to follow suit, then swap back to the jib in the last minute/s before the start - or vice versa.:D

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2 hours ago, atwinda said:

We hear a lot about "loosing rudder grip" etc, and that's when the crashes happen. What I am suggesting, is that they end up with an out of balance sail plan to below water foil configuration and it becomes too risky to even consider the code zero.

So the question becomes, would you rather go 7 knots or be on your side?

This thought experiment only works in 6-8 knots of TWS (marginal foiling conditions) when getting on the foils, by definition, is the central problem. Is crashing really a big concern in those conditions? If the competitor is on foils, and you are not, your probability of winning is 0%. So you sail around (on foils) with the Code 0 furled up. If for some reason (a lull, a bad tack, downspeed start, whatever) you fall off the foils then you unroll the Code Zero to get back up. 

This presupposes that the Code Zero can be furled. If that is not the case then this technique clearly doesn't work, but I thought the original idea was that the C0 would be unfurled for the "downwind" legs.

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IMO they need to figure out their lightwind options.  Either allow 2 sets of declared foils or figure out the Code Zero. I'd prefer they figure out the CZ, whether that means running double headed and furling/unfurling as required, or some other option.   

If they take the option of raising the minimum wind limit, I would look at that as a failure for the class 

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Will there be a....

 

Tight taking duel

A slam dunk

A lee bow squeeze.

A luff

A kiwi drop

This racing is boring " win the start" three tacks , three gybes bullshit.

I hopes america magic wins and goes back to sailing boats where kitesa are hoisted, and the crew get out of their seats.

Trouble is.. AM have Barker

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Baconator said:

Will there be a....

 

Tight taking duel

A slam dunk

A lee bow squeeze.

A luff

A kiwi drop

This racing is boring " win the start" three tacks , three gybes bullshit.

I hopes america magic wins and goes back to sailing boats where kitesa are hoisted, and the crew get out of their seats.

Trouble is.. AM have Barker

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Barker is A problem, THE problem is that Amway chose him as lead mercenary.

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3 hours ago, WakaNZ said:

Only when they know for sure the breeze won't go over single digits during the race, anything over and it's drag. 

But maybe not quite as much drag as a <68' hull?

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50 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

If Barker is A problem, THE problem is that Amway chose him as lead mercenary.

Yip...   Let's buy a built in excuse for om failure.... And to think of the good young talent they could have employed to give burling a rev up.   

Mates employing mates with no sensible management oversight.

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8 hours ago, Baconator said:

Will there be a....

 

Tight taking duel

A slam dunk

A lee bow squeeze.

A luff

A kiwi drop

This racing is boring " win the start" three tacks , three gybes bullshit.

I hopes america magic wins and goes back to sailing boats where kitesa are hoisted, and the crew get out of their seats.

Trouble is.. AM have Barker

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trouble is.... that ship sailed in about 2007

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9 hours ago, Baconator said:

 

This racing is boring " win the start" three tacks , three gybes bullshit.

 

Are we watching the same racing?

Day 2 you never knew what was going to happen, Ineos have come from behind to beat LR on day 3,  the on the edge (and over the edge in the case of AM) racing on day 3?

I think it has been great. Yes, I would like to see sail changes again. Drop the wind limit and allow asymmetrics, code zeros and sail changes. 

Apart from that I love these boats

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17 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Are we watching the same racing?

Day 2 you never knew what was going to happen, Ineos have come from behind to beat LR on day 3,  the on the edge (and over the edge in the case of AM) racing on day 3?

I think it has been great. Yes, I would like to see sail changes again. Drop the wind limit and allow asymmetrics, code zeros and sail changes. 

Apart from that I love these boats

The boats are great. The races are to short, lack the full width of the course by restricting the options to get to the laylines ( for tv)and are set in the worst part of the gulf to get steady wind..

Thrown in  a short offshore race to sail rock and back to spice it up :D

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18 hours ago, amc said:

Trouble is.... that ship sailed in about 2007

Yip...   That ship was far more interesting. This AC See's more interest in the boats than the sailors ...  Who have just become "auto pilots"

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32 minutes ago, Baconator said:

The boats are great. The races are to short, lack the full width of the course by restricting the options to get to the laylines ( for tv)and are set in the worst part of the gulf to get steady wind..

Thrown in  a short offshore race to sail rock and back to spice it up :D

Too short time wise or too short distance wise?

I lean towards the distance being lacking.   These races are like F1's being constrainted to a short oval track.

I think an offshore course would be fantastic.

I think the boat design is awesome. A few tweaks and they would take this to the next level.

The #1 item that I think exacerbates any issue is the lack of time and head to head racing. The original plan of racing in Italy, England then NZ, would have really polished the teams and sorted out some of these issues.

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On 1/21/2021 at 7:54 PM, Baconator said:

Will there be a....

 

Tight taking duel

A slam dunk

A lee bow squeeze.

A luff

A kiwi drop

This racing is boring " win the start" three tacks , three gybes bullshit.

I hopes america magic wins and goes back to sailing boats where kitesa are hoisted, and the crew get out of their seats.

Trouble is.. AM have Barker

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please enlighten us to your idea of a kiwi drop on these boats. I'd love to hear it.

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7 hours ago, Baconator said:

Yip...   That ship was far more interesting. This AC See's more interest in the boats than the sailors ...  Who have just become "auto pilots"

Really? Despite the almost universal consensus that UK have been winning partially or wholly because they have sailed the boats better.

FWIW the boundaries have made it far more exciting by having to tack more and play tactics.

 Not sure whether you are deliberately spouting rubbish or whether it is just natural talent

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10 minutes ago, enigmatically2 said:

Really? Despite the almost universal consensus that UK have been winning partially or wholly because they have sailed the boats better.

FWIW the boundaries have made it far more exciting by having to tack more and play tactics.

 Not sure whether you are deliberately spouting rubbish or whether it is just natural talent

I assume it's a sock puppet of a well-known ex-poster. The sick obsession with one sailor/team and the random capitalization (not so random for Germans, mind you) might be a give-away...
I might be wrong tho.

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18 hours ago, tDot said:

Too short time wise or too short distance wise?

I lean towards the distance being lacking.   These races are like F1's being constrainted to a short oval track.

I think an offshore course would be fantastic.

I think the boat design is awesome. A few tweaks and they would take this to the next level.

The #1 item that I think exacerbates any issue is the lack of time and head to head racing. The original plan of racing in Italy, England then NZ, would have really polished the teams and sorted out some of these issues.

It's all designed around bullshit TV coverage...  Not sailing.

The time of day is for the Euros and yanks and is when Auckland breeze drops out from the midday peak.

The sailing course is pathetic and made for a few hundred people on north head.

The beats should last more than ten minutes inorder to test the crew and tactics.

These races should be 2hrs.

America's cup has lowered the bar to 20/20 cricket levels.. and for what?.... Not cool!

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17 hours ago, Afrayedknot said:

Please enlighten us to your idea of a kiwi drop on these boats. I'd love to hear it.

Who mention these boats?...   In talking what AM propose if they win.

Get up with the play mate!

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11 hours ago, enigmatically2 said:

Really? Despite the almost universal consensus that UK have been winning partially or wholly because they have sailed the boats better.

FWIW the boundaries have made it far more exciting by having to tack more and play tactics.

 Not sure whether you are deliberately spouting rubbish or whether it is just natural talent

I guess you need to experience real ACs like perth to understand how bad these new AC events have become.

It's like small minded 20 20 cricket v the thinking man's test format.

The AC has fallen to the TV companies demands....  That's why the event is becoming less popular

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11 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

I assume it's a sock puppet of a well-known ex-poster. The sick obsession with one sailor/team and the random capitalization (not so random for Germans, mind you) might be a give-away...
I might be wrong tho.

Alinghi forever perhaps? LOL!

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22 minutes ago, Baconator said:

I guess you need to experience real ACs like perth to understand how bad these new AC events have become.

It's like small minded 20 20 cricket v the thinking man's test format.

The AC has fallen to the TV companies demands....  That's why the event is becoming less popular

"Am I out of touch? No, it's everyone else that is wrong"

Here are the target times for the current Olympic classes:

  • Laser, Laser Radial, Finn: 50 minutes
  • 470: 45 minutes
  • Nacra, 49er, 49erFX: 30 minutes
  • RS:X: 20-25 minutes

The biggest match racing events in the world also aim for 20-30 minutes races. The cup is changing with sailing, as it should. I love watching the 12s, and people still race 12s, but sports evolve, and the AC is better off driving evolution just like it has done in the past. 

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1 hour ago, sailer99 said:

"Am I out of touch? No, it's everyone else that is wrong"

Here are the target times for the current Olympic classes:

  • Laser, Laser Radial, Finn: 50 minutes
  • 470: 45 minutes
  • Nacra, 49er, 49erFX: 30 minutes
  • RS:X: 20-25 minutes

The biggest match racing events in the world also aim for 20-30 minutes races. The cup is changing with sailing, as it should. I love watching the 12s, and people still race 12s, but sports evolve, and the AC is better off driving evolution just like it has done in the past. 

Firstly the AC never drove evolution in hull shapes, construction or design... FFS   it sailed alloy 12m's for decades while Farr was designing fast composite boats.

I would say the AC drove gear and sail tech .  That's all 

This new trend is driven by TV and Gen x,y,z lack of concentration beyond an hour.

This trend is aimed at the dumb arse " fly by night" youth who get bored after 60 minutes.

 

This trend is also taking a great sport to new low levels of participation.

The sport has sold out to corporates and tv money....   And has in turn ruined us core base of sailors over.

Name an olympic class where a 50+ can participate competitively?...  Or a big guy over 90kg.

It's all image and no substance. 

The one saving grace are the big fleets if single handers who race across oceans and around the globe...

Most world champs are seriously depleted, the olympic is now so niche it's gunna disappear up its own ass.

The AC is no cheaper, less numbers, less crowds, it's just becoming boring like F1.

Where will the next evolution in boats cone from now?....

 

 

 Time for evolution into a sailing event focussed on tactical battles, crew work,  sailing in big breezes and ffs...give me a skipper with a personality and and true opinion.

 

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Baconator you have by far the most out-of-touch, worst take I have heard on the AC. 

YouTube has a playback speed feature that you can set to 0.25x if you want the races to last over two hours.

 

Quote

And has in turn ruined us core base of sailors over.

I think you forgot to end your sentence, "And has in turn ruined us core base of sailors over 85"

 

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13 minutes ago, jsn7821 said:

Baconator you have by far the most out-of-touch, worst take I have heard on the AC. 

YouTube has a playback speed feature that you can set to 0.25x if you want the races to last over two hours.

 

I think you forgot to end your sentence, "And has in turn ruined us core base of sailors over 85"

 

Only in your opinion ....  And what's your reasoning?

Perth  fleet of 14 and four defenders

Auckland 2.5 and one defender.

 

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59 minutes ago, jsn7821 said:

YouTube has a playback speed feature that you can set to 0.25x if you want the races to last over two hours.

 

The problem is with this AC is multi faceted and you have addressed only one.

From my perspective, the problems are:

 

1. A tiny lead gives rise to boats being a huge distance apart, so very little close quarter manouvres.

2. A relatively small mistake can cause a boat to drop off their foils and immediately out of contention. Compare this with the IACCs where a team could blow a chute, hoist a new one, lose 3 or 4 lengths and be straight back into it.

3. While we are on the subject, no more sail changes in the race.

4. And finally yes, the races are too short.

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

The problem is with this AC is multi faceted and you have addressed only one.

From my perspective, the problems are:

 

1. A tiny lead gives rise to boats being a huge distance apart, so very little close quarter manouvres.

2. A relatively small mistake can cause a boat to drop off their foils and immediately out of contention. Compare this with the IACCs where a team could blow a chute, hoist a new one, lose 3 or 4 lengths and be straight back into it.

3. While we are on the subject, no more sail changes in the race.

4. And finally yes, the races are too short.

Yesterday's race should be plenty of counterpoint to #1. 

 

For #3 - what's the obsession with sail changes?

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7 hours ago, Baconator said:

Who mention these boats?...   In talking what AM propose if they win.

Get up with the play mate!

Thanks... mate...? I don’t want to be reductionist and say thanks boomer... Getting sailing on TV sucks I Know.? Very confused. 

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2 hours ago, jsn7821 said:

Yesterday's race should be plenty of counterpoint to #1. 

 

For #3 - what's the obsession with sail changes?

Obsession with sail changes is that it's a sailing contest.

But once again, this is all personal preference where my opinion counts for no more or less than yours.

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6 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Obsession with sail changes is that it's a sailing contest.

But once again, this is all personal preference where my opinion counts for no more or less than yours.

Both +1.

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11 hours ago, jaysper said:

The problem is with this AC is multi faceted and you have addressed only one.

From my perspective, the problems are:

 

1. A tiny lead gives rise to boats being a huge distance apart, so very little close quarter manouvres.

2. A relatively small mistake can cause a boat to drop off their foils and immediately out of contention. Compare this with the IACCs where a team could blow a chute, hoist a new one, lose 3 or 4 lengths and be straight back into it.

3. While we are on the subject, no more sail changes in the race.

4. And finally yes, the races are too short.

I don't think the evidence supports that. There has been plenty of close quarters stuff. More yesterday than in several whole cups.

You complain about coming off the foils being game over. It wasn't on day 2, it wasn't for LR yesterday with the bad tacks.

Sure sail changes are part of sailing, but I don't remember too many at the laser nationals. They are part of sailing but not essential for it.

For what we lose in sail changes, we have gained in the foil movements at marks. Look at GBs beautiful JKs for example, as good as the best tack-set-gybe

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  • 2 weeks later...
4 minutes ago, breezie said:

still picking a CZ race this weekend ......   windy.com

 

Would that not be real cool A foiling (slowly) and B foiling fast and dropping in and letting A glide by way into the lead then B getting up and catching up.  Neck and neck (relatively) to the finish.

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Well given that both teams have this morning categorically ruled out a cZ this weekend my hope that we will see one deployed are considerably raised ! looking more likey by  the minute

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I don't think Sir Ben ruled it out!!  In fact he said it would be in their wardrobe.

Max said "sailing with the CZ you would not be able to complete the race inside the time limit"

I think foiling all the way with a CZ you would complete the course (4 legs?) easily so I think they are both foxing!

Mind you having steady breeze of 6.5 to 8 knots would be highly unlikely as well.

If one flies a CZ and wins I will be cheering all the way.

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27 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

If both do all the better.

Well as i see it if its 7 kn at the start and both teams can see the wind is dropping (which coincidentally is how i read the forecast atm) we will see cZ

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How cool would that be?

If they can get up on foils a good bit of the track, say 90%,

we will all be on the edge of our seats.  The slowest might beat the fastest like in Bermuda according to someone.

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4 hours ago, Kiwing said:

I don't think Sir Ben ruled it out!!  In fact he said it would be in their wardrobe.

Max said "sailing with the CZ you would not be able to complete the race inside the time limit"

I think foiling all the way with a CZ you would complete the course (4 legs?) easily so I think they are both foxing!

Mind you having steady breeze of 6.5 to 8 knots would be highly unlikely as well.

If one flies a CZ and wins I will be cheering all the way.

hmm ...maby i should have said

"Well given that both teams have this morning <hyperbole> categorically ruled out </hyperbole> a cZ

better?

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On 1/21/2021 at 6:10 PM, Meat Wad said:

Gotta keep everyone interested.

The tech is cool but most of the actual racing is boring.

How dare you. There was an above average  race between INEOS and PRADA. I know because i nearly watched it until the end.

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How cool would that be?

If they can get up on foils a good bit of the track, say 90%,

we will all be on the edge of our seats.  The slowest might beat the fastest like in Bermuda according to someone.

Hoping for some CZ action!  What do you think @breezie ?

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On 1/23/2021 at 11:42 PM, Rennmaus said:

Might be. The total fixation on Deano resembles A4E's former compulsive focus on BA.

That's funny, the subject of A4E surfacing.

If I remember correctly he got the flick during the last Volvo. He was very irritating / irrational much of the time.

I was never 100% sure if he really was that stupid or simply very good at giving that impression.

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Up in the Bay it is a mill pond with little drifts of sea breeze starting?

Bring on those CZs I say.  I hope only one flies one and it finishes the course - unlikely either both or none, I think.

Be good to see 2 races finished though?

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22 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

No

Agreed, and for that reason why even have a bowsprit in any AC75 V2? Oh that’s right, because then they’d have to call the Class name correctly, an AC68. ;)

If the Class had been named by LOA instead of (more-properly) LWL then the AC72s would have been called AC83s... 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

If the Class had been named by LOA instead of (more-properly) LWL then the AC72s would have been called AC83s... 

But then again, LWL seems more and more irrelevant as the years go on doesn't it. 

Not sure if you've seen, but their not in the water very much nowadays :lol:

You don't see cars, smartphones, or even vacumes named by their specifications any longer. They should make up some sick names. The AC Sky Raptor. The AC Pillager. The AC Anarchist. 

I miss sail changes...

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On 1/22/2021 at 1:46 AM, yoyo said:

You are right they cant switch sails during a race so the C0 would be a big gamble.

Headsail changes aren't banned, just impractical. Crew going forward of the mast must be tethered and sails must be stored on deck (thought they can be bagged or covered). Leaving a code zero in a bag on the foredeck or even in the cockpit would play havoc with aero. I haven't seen any of the boats with any kind of sock or aero bag for dropped headsails, so guessing they do not plan any headsail changes during a race.

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47 minutes ago, Floating Duck said:

But then again, LWL seems more and more irrelevant as the years go on doesn't it. 

Not sure if you've seen, but their not in the water very much nowadays :lol:

Funny, true. But c’mon, LWL is more traditional for a Class.. 

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43 minutes ago, RobG said:

Headsail changes aren't banned, just impractical. Crew going forward of the mast must be tethered and sails must be stored on deck (thought they can be bagged or covered). Leaving a code zero in a bag on the foredeck or even in the cockpit would play havoc with aero. I haven't seen any of the boats with any kind of sock or aero bag for dropped headsails, so guessing they do not plan any headsail changes during a race.

Never said they were banned.  The jib or C0's are on dedicated structural stays without furlers.  So being almost impossible to change sails mid race means they cant and they wont. 

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Agreed, and for that reason why even have a bowsprit in any AC75 V2? Oh that’s right, because then they’d have to call the Class name correctly, an AC68. ;)

If the Class had been named by LOA instead of (more-properly) LWL then the AC72s would have been called AC83s... 

Correct, and an AC68 would have been been faster than the AC75 :)

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Correct, and an AC68 would have been been faster than the AC75 :)

Since only one country in the world isn't officially metric (though UK refuses to admit it), AC20 seems more suitable. ;-)

And yes, much faster…

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Just now, RobG said:

Yeah, sorry. Should have said "not a case of can't but wont".

No worries, I figured as much. 

It would have been great to see the crews deal with sail changes.  Sadly we wont.

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7 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Not true. We are in a prestigious group with Liberia and Myanmar.

According to Wikipedia, that is in a state of flux. I can't see metric being adopted by US civilians ever. :-) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wow I like seeing TNZ playing with a very light CZ with a jib, which I presume they will drop when not needed?  Can they rehoist?

If anyone can the Kiwis can!

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5 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Wow I like seeing TNZ playing with a very light CZ with a jib, which I presume they will drop when not needed?  Can they rehoist?

If anyone can the Kiwis can!

Interesting that ETNZ are testing it still.  I remember hearing a couple of teams say that the utility of a CZ is for such a narrow wind range that it is too risky - because as soon as the wind increases the CZ becomes to draggy and that it's more efficient to simply wait and build sufficient speed to get up on the foils...

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13 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Wow I like seeing TNZ playing with a very light CZ with a jib, which I presume they will drop when not needed?  Can they rehoist?

If anyone can the Kiwis can!

I don't think it is possible to drop the jib while racing. They just add the code zero unfurling it. Problem is that when not iin use it adds a great amount of drag. Am I wrong?

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On 1/21/2021 at 10:24 AM, atwinda said:

We hear a lot about "loosing rudder grip" etc, and that's when the crashes happen. What I am suggesting, is that they end up with an out of balance sail plan to below water foil configuration and it becomes too risky to even consider the code zero.

So the question becomes, would you rather go 7 knots or be on your side?

I think a couple of teams would have risked being on their sides. And one was on it’s side, kinda.   But they’re gone now.  And from what I’ve seen in these here parts, safety is not really a concern.
 

Sail changes would  be a hoot to watch. Overpowered out of control AC boats would be a hoot to watch. Vicarious thrills. No towing to foiling. Bring it on.

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

I don't think it is possible to drop the jib while racing. They just add the code zero unfurling it. Problem is that when not iin use it adds a great amount of drag. Am I wrong?

I’m not seeing the CZ getting caught on an inner forestay.  (?). But at this level of professionalism, what trouble would dropping a CZ, putting up an inner forestay, dropping the sprit shroud, and pulling up a smaller jib really be? Or vice versa?  Many times in one race?  Lots of strong lads on the grinders.  Done correctly it would be as exciting as a NASCAR pit stop, except it would be on the water, under main only!  Hoooooo weeeeeee!  The other boat crawling away at 8 or 9 knots, or out of control fighting to stay up!  

Broad’s Boats go under tiny bridges, for God’s sake.  This is not rocket science.

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On 1/21/2021 at 9:44 AM, enigmatically2 said:

Can't really tell from that video, because there is a cut every time they splash.

Have you seen that elsewhere?

Noticed that too.

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On 2/12/2021 at 5:12 PM, yoyo said:

Never said they were banned.  The jib or C0's are on dedicated structural stays without furlers.  So being almost impossible to change sails mid race means they cant and they wont. 

Structural for what structure?  The mast structure? 

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2 hours ago, strider470 said:

I don't think it is possible to drop the jib while racing. They just add the code zero unfurling it. Problem is that when not iin use it adds a great amount of drag. Am I wrong?

Just tuck it into the cockpit somewhere.  Behind the grinders, maybe....lots of room there!

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