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With the bottom work under control, my efforts will soon turn to the topsides on my 6 ktstbx.

The boat has a 30 year old flag blue Awlgrip paint job that is dull and tired with light scratches.

Have already washed and dewaxed it, and then scrubbed with Comet.  so any Awlcar is gone.

Getting ready to sand off the color coat before fairing the hull and preparing it for Alexseal paint.

 

Question is should I try to pre-fair the scratches with Totalfair prior to sanding off the paint?

Doing so would make finding the scratches easier since they stand out being the yellow color of the Awlgrip primer beneath.

Or is to not worth the effort since I will be fairing the hull when the paint is removed?

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Fill and fair any obvious repairs before sanding. The first sanding  will show more repairs, low spots. After priming more will show up. After sanding primer there will be more. Always have some fairing compound ready.

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Why would you sand off the all topcoat if it was well adhered? (See page 16 of Alexseal application guide on doing a cross hatch test - basically draw a tic tac toe grid on the paint, apply packing tape and then yank off firmly. If the paint comes off THEN you need to remove it.

I'd fill & fair any obvious deeper scratches, then sand

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If you repaint blue, or a dark color, any place you reprime will take more coats to cover.  The primer will show though.

If the paint is well adhered, I'd just sand until you see it's all gone dull and there are no unsanded low spots.  If that happens before you get through the color, then good, the new paint will cover better and less sanding.

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To do a good job you'll probably need to apply a guide coat such as:

https://www.international-yachtpaint.com/en/au/boat-paint-products/care-cleaning-and-maintenance/sanding-guide-coat

 at least once during the process, which will show up all the scratches, pinholes, etc. The International one is blue ( there are others), goes on quickly and easily, which may not work so well on Flag Blue.

If I were doing the job I'd give the boat a quick sand, apply a guide coat, sand it off, which would then show me what I was in for.

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Thanks to all for the sage advance.

I will try the scratch test first as I had read that in the product materials. May save a lot of dirty work.

Alexseal sells light and dark grey primer. Intend to use the dark primer.

I already have a can of Mirka guide coat on its way to the house.  People say it works well on dark primer. intend to use it with 220 after fairing, and again with 320 after the primer has been sanded.

 

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I like sailing a lot more than sanding. I would make necessary repairs, fill any scratches, prime with 445 , sand, and apply fresh Awlgrip topcoat. 
 

of course if the Awlgrip is still as shitty as the stuff they used last tome, it will need another coat of paint in 2051
 

 

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On 1/22/2021 at 2:03 PM, Zonker said:

Why would you sand off the all topcoat if it was well adhered? (See page 16 of Alexseal application guide on doing a cross hatch test - basically draw a tic tac toe grid on the paint, apply packing tape and then yank off firmly. If the paint comes off THEN you need to remove it.

I'd fill & fair any obvious deeper scratches, then sand

This is a bit of a heretical question, and I'm likely just too inexperienced with the new paints and additives.....

Watching Andy (Boatworkstoday) using the roll only Alexseal additive I began to wonder if Andy was over prepping the surface (i.e. done traditionally). Im not criticizing him for that, because he needed to show the finish if painted as normal.

e.g. 100 grit has a scratch / cut depth of 0.016" while 400 grit is 220 = 0.002".

If the final flow / levelling / tightening compensates for 0.016" - and i dont know what scratch depth alexsal + additive will fill and level across - then just maybe it would be possible to skip all sanding beyond 100 grit for fairing and priming.

I would still do a final 400 grit sand after the 2 top coats / before the 3rd (show) coat, so that as little of the topcoat layers is sanded away.

Am I being stupid / consumed by wishful thinking and dislike of sanding?

 

In an ideal world (limited & expensive facilities at this lake), I could fill, very lightly fair to 100 grit, prime, sand 100 grit, top coat 1 + 2, sand 400 grit, show coat, my Irwin 30 in the water in an away from everybody else slip without too much effort. Not sure I would want to try that if sanding all the way down to 300 or so.

 

Edited by dfw_sailor
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I've never seen a paint other than anti-fouling that would " fill and level across" 100 grit scratches.

220 is the minimum for a painted surface and 400 wet is needed for a truly glossy "car" finish.

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9 hours ago, dfw_sailor said:

 

e.g. 100 grit has a scratch / cut depth of 0.016" while 400 grit is 220 = 0.002".

 

 

 

Interesting. Are you restoring a Da Vinci or painting the topsides on a 4 knot shit box. 

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6 minutes ago, Al Paca said:

Interesting. Are you restoring a Da Vinci or painting the topsides on a 4 knot shit box. 

8 knot shit box :)       ...... on a very good day, 

But I'm lazy,  so I'm trying to avoid sanding where possible. 

Here's a thread about the boat.... 

 

 

Edited by dfw_sailor
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/22/2021 at 3:03 PM, Zonker said:

Why would you sand off the all topcoat if it was well adhered? (See page 16 of Alexseal application guide on doing a cross hatch test - basically draw a tic tac toe grid on the paint, apply packing tape and then yank off firmly. If the paint comes off THEN you need to remove it.

I'd fill & fair any obvious deeper scratches, then sand

I ran the test at several locations on Saturday.

For each test, no paint came off, so this will save a metric shitload of work.

Great news after 3 weeks under the boat fairing the hull bottom (well it has built up my abs and shoulder muscles...)

 

Have printed the entire Alexseal manual and am now going though it page by page to ensure i do not miss anything else.

Can you say RTFMS (Read The Fucking Manual Stupid)?

 

Thanks

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  • 2 months later...

Just to close this thread out.

Everything worked out well.

 

Faired every nit with Total fair.  Took about 3 hours. (pic 1)

 

Faired the hull to 150, then rolled 3 coats of Alexseal primer (grey for blue, white for boot stripes) (pic 2)

 

Sanded with 320, then rolled 3 coats of Alexseal flag blue and matterhorn white.

Sanded with 400.

Did a final coat on both Sunday.   Had some issues with orange peel due to weather conditions and technique.

Sanded that topcoat off Tuesday and re-rolled it yesterday (Pic 3).  

 

Looks good enough.

Now working on doing the spars in Matterhorn White.

Thanks for the advice.  Prefairing was the way to go...

 

236715363_pic1.jpg

2079548700_pic2.jpg

646310857_pic3.jpg

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Great looking job. Gold leaf tape in the cove will really make that paint job pop.

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it was just rolled using 4" Redtree mohair rollers in 3/16" nap. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CZ2Y51K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Did it singlehandedly in 3 hours though that is nonstop once you begin.

 

I did use the new Alexseal roller bubble popper additive (A5018). The stuff is cheap (less than 30 bucks).

Stuff is amazing.  Just need to leave the shit alone once you roll it on. You keep rolling a section to press bubbles out and you are actually introducing bubbles and the thinner is gone and you get orange peel. After 3.5 minutes, you just leave it alone whether it is where you want or not (eg STOP PICKING THAT SCAB!)

 

Flag Blue is one of the hardest colors to roll. In fact if you read details in that Alexseal manual it says dark colors are a bitch to roll and you are on your own..  Light colors like white are a piece of cake and truly look professionally sprayed.

 

Gold cove strips should be here any day now...

 

 

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Looks great! You are encouraging me since I have a hull painting project in my near future and was contemplating Alexseal. Also trying to decide between dark green (the original hull color) or white (current color).

What are you using for the cove stripe? 

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Ocean

I will warn you dark colors show EVERYTHING and are very finicky to roll (the paint does not like to be rolled on hot hull sides from direct sun).  White is much easier easier.

Alexseal is quality product but you have to follow their instructions to the letter. A little antidote:  The blue paint is thin and will get under 3M green fine line performance tape in a heartbeat.  On the final roll, it bled under the tape onto the white stripe painted the day before. Not what I wanted to find when I pulled the tape.   I wiped the stripe with acetone (the axelseal prepwash was too weak) and it took off the blue paint without affecting the white stripe put on the day before.  Did not even affect the shine.  That is some tough paint..

 

For stripes I am used a quality 3mm thick automotive vinyl stripe 3/4" wide. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00144B474/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

What I really wanted was Scotchcal in Starfire metalic gold which is pure jewerly, but 3M discontinued making it last fall.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchcal-Starfire-Striping-Automotive/dp/B0010AZRD4

 

Will still look better than the original gold awlgrip stripe the factory sprayed on.

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Thanks for the advice. I'm probably leaning towards color prudence. 

11 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

What I really wanted was Scotchcal in Starfire metalic gold which is pure jewerly, but 3M discontinued making it last fall.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchcal-Starfire-Striping-Automotive/dp/B0010AZRD4

 

Will still look better than the original gold awlgrip stripe the factory sprayed on.

I once made an entrance sign for a church, carved relief letters in a big jatoba plank. I gilded the letters with (actual) gold leaf- first time had I tried this. 15+ years exposed to the weather and the gold still looks great. It's a thought...

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Someone makes striping tape that is an extremely close match to real gold leaf. A guy did his cove and name in it on a new red paint job in my boatyard a couple or three years ago - it looked spectacular.

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I did my cove stripe with auto touch-up paint, its good quality and lasts well. Used 3 rattle spray cans. There's lots of choice of gold hues.

Masked the edges with fine-line tape then put masking tape/drop-down film around it to protect the topsides.  As usual, masking took the most time.

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13 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

 

For stripes I am used a quality 3mm thick automotive vinyl stripe 3/4" wide. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00144B474/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

What I really wanted was Scotchcal in Starfire metalic gold which is pure jewerly, but 3M discontinued making it last fall.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchcal-Starfire-Striping-Automotive/dp/B0010AZRD4

 

Will still look better than the original gold awlgrip stripe the factory sprayed on.

It sounds like you already found what you were looking for, but we have had really good luck with both the Oracal Gold 651 and the CS Hyde Metalized products if you wanted the more 'shiny' finish similar to that scotchcal stuff...

Oracal: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZ1INSF/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B01LZ1INSF&pd_rd_w=nCkAM&pf_rd_p=085568d9-3b13-4ac1-8ae4-24a26c00cb0c&pd_rd_wg=QlgEf&pf_rd_r=0XHBHZQ65PQDVX9ZNXP4&pd_rd_r=149d92c9-36c2-4d2b-9513-a5a95a3dcee6&smid=AY6AHC5QX4SBQ&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExNUNUS005TllBWEhYJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTcwNTkyMzhLNTA1NFFWQ09KNCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTg5MzA0M0VLVU5MMTdTMjgzRSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

CS Hyde: https://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/tapes-with-psa/ories-tapes-with-adhesive-metalized-polyester-tape

 

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10 hours ago, suider said:

how do these tapes hold up long term?

The reviews on Oracal concerned me.  There are multiple people saying the edges not sharp.

 How long does the CS Hyde tape hold up.  That looks very close to the 3M film but it needs to last at least 5 years.

 

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On 4/10/2021 at 1:26 AM, Foreverslow said:

how do these tapes hold up long term?

The reviews on Oracal concerned me.  There are multiple people saying the edges not sharp.

 How long does the CS Hyde tape hold up.  That looks very close to the 3M film but it needs to last at least 5 years.

 

Well, that is going to be a little bit of a question- as we always used the ScotchCal too! So I don't have anything out there right now with realistically more than 1-2 seasons on it.

Maybe it was luck of the draw, but I haven't seen any of the Oracal with wavy edges or anything like that. But, I see what you mean, it seems people say that relatively often at least through the amazon reviews- we get ours through a distributer, so maybe there is better quality control?

The CS Hyde stuff REALLY pops, it is super shiny and applies easily. Obviously they claim that it is long lasting, but I really can't give you anything other than 'more than a season' at this point.

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