Pedagogical Tom

Fuck School. Fuck Softball. Fuck Everything.

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Imagine someone has the opinion you state, imagine! Imagine that a contract that says you must reflect the values of the entity, or you can’t play, is infringing on free speech rights. Imagine!

I don’t see anything in the Connie that says you must be allowed to cheer.

What does this have to with the student being allowed to cheer?

The Supreme Court case is to decide if a school district has the right to regulate speech outside of school and school functions. Try to keep up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mikewof said:

What does this have to with the student being allowed to cheer?

The Supreme Court case is to decide if a school district has the right to regulate speech outside of school and school functions. Try to keep up.

I expect SCOTUS  will decide if Participating in Athletics is a privilege or a right.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mikewof said:

What does this have to with the student being allowed to cheer?

The Supreme Court case is to decide if a school district has the right to regulate speech outside of school and school functions. Try to keep up.

No one is regulating her speech.  It’s  the athletic department that is reminding her you can say whatever you want, but there will be consequences if you violate the agreement you and your parents signed 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, The Joker said:
36 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Did she post that? 

Not exactly,  which was why I put “my” in quotations.    When she directs it to her fellow students it’s clear which school she was talking about.  But why would you understand you’ve never heard of your own school’s policy for athletes. 

Once you injected "my", you lost any legitimacy to what you were saying.  To my knowledge, she made a blanket statement born out of frustration and anger.  "Fuck school".   

And, she posted it on Snapchat.  That isn't the same thing as directing it to her fellow students.  That would be like sending them a text or email.

How many times has that been uttered by a student?  Bad grade on a test.  Detention for being late.  I hear it all the time.

As for the Code of Conduct in my district, I knew it wasn't what you claimed.  So, I looked it up.  Sure enough, this is not what you claim it to be.  Here is the pertinent section from the Code of Conduct - 

Application of the Code of Conduct The Code of Conduct applies to students at all times while participating in City Schools’ learning environments (traditional and/or virtual), on City Schools’ property, at any school-sponsored activity (including athletic contests and field trips), and while traveling to and from school or any school-sponsored events. In these instances, City Schools may utilize interventions and responses to create and sustain a learning environment (traditional and/ or virtual) that facilitates all students’ efforts to learn, including but not limited to restorative approaches, mediation, mindfulness, and suspension/expulsion. Other incidents that occur off school grounds, with exception, are typically not addressed by City Schools or its Student Code of Conduct unless the behavior undermines relationships at school or otherwise substantially disrupts the school learning environment (traditional and/or virtual) and threatens the safety and climate of others within a school community. In these instances, the CEO or CEO’s designee has the authority to approve and/or administer interventions and disciplinary responses in accordance with the Student Code of Conduct.

I asked the Athletic Director if he heard of any athlete being punished for something like is described in the OP.  His response - "Nope."

As for athletes, here is the link to the Handbook on Interscholastic Athletics.  Happy hunting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Once you injected "my", you lost any legitimacy to what you were saying.  To my knowledge, she made a blanket statement born out of frustration and anger.  "Fuck school". 

How many times has that been uttered by a student?  Bad grade on a test.  Detention for being late.  I hear it all the time.

As for the Code of Conduct in my district, I knew it wasn't what you claimed.  So, I looked it up.  Sure enough, this is not what you claim it to be.  Here is the pertinent section from the Code of Conduct - 

Application of the Code of Conduct The Code of Conduct applies to students at all times while participating in City Schools’ learning environments (traditional and/or virtual), on City Schools’ property, at any school-sponsored activity (including athletic contests and field trips), and while traveling to and from school or any school-sponsored events. In these instances, City Schools may utilize interventions and responses to create and sustain a learning environment (traditional and/ or virtual) that facilitates all students’ efforts to learn, including but not limited to restorative approaches, mediation, mindfulness, and suspension/expulsion. Other incidents that occur off school grounds, with exception, are typically not addressed by City Schools or its Student Code of Conduct unless the behavior undermines relationships at school or otherwise substantially disrupts the school learning environment (traditional and/or virtual) and threatens the safety and climate of others within a school community. In these instances, the CEO or CEO’s designee has the authority to approve and/or administer interventions and disciplinary responses in accordance with the Student Code of Conduct.

I asked the Athletic Director if he heard of any athlete being punished for something like is described in the OP.  His response - "Nope."

As for athletes, here is the link to the Handbook on Interscholastic Athletics.  Happy hunting.

Nice attempt to deflect by posting the Schools code of conduct.   We are talking about the athletic department. As to your AD   I don’t care if they agree or disagree on the punishment.   I expect that it varies from district to district.  You claimed you personally had never heard of athletes having a code of conduct then you post the handbook.  Maybe in Baltimore the kids don’t Acknowledge, with a signature that they got the handbook. YCMTSU 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, benwynn said:

I do now.  What a difference two gin martinis make.

Two gin martinis before 11 am your time???  Well done sir!

I just started on my first Gin & Tonic.  But hope to catch up to you soon.  

BTW - what's your favorite Gin?  I've recently discovered the "Botanist".  It's delicious but pricey.  It's a Scottish gin from Islay.  Makes sense since I also love Islay Single Malts.  My everyday gin is Bombay Sapphire.  I blame the Brit sailors I lived and partied with in Dubai.  I was never a big G&T fan until now.  Bloody addiction it is now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Jeezus, man, what sort of namby-pamby country do you live in?

I bought my first rifle at 15, a single shot 22LR.

We won't discuss smoking & drinking, OK?

FKT

I had my first Dogballs rifle, a 10-shot bolt action repeater at age 7.  I got it for christmas when we were visiting my grandparents in Asheville, NC.  Dad and I walked right out the back door to go shoot it.  I think we spent an hour going over the safety and responsibility lectures before I was ever allowed to load it and pull the trigger.  I was taught that with privilege comes great responsibility.  I never forgot those lessons.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, The Joker said:

No one is regulating her speech.  It’s  the athletic department that is reminding her you can say whatever you want, but there will be consequences if you violate the agreement you and your parents signed 

Hence they are regulating her speech.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, @Polytelum Tom, what is your take on this?  Where specifically do you stand on this issue?  Would you side with the school or the student if you were a SCOTUS justice for a day?  I've never been a fan of people who post stuff like this, but never personally take a stand one way or the other.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Nice attempt to deflect by posting the Schools code of conduct.   We are talking about the athletic department. As to your AD   I don’t care if they agree or disagree on the punishment.   I expect that it varies from district to district.  You claimed you personally had never heard of athletes having a code of conduct then you post the handbook.  Maybe in Baltimore the kids don’t Acknowledge, with a signature that they got the handbook. YCMTSU 

How very fucking wrong you are.  I said I'd never heard of an athlete having to sign such an agreement.  Below is a screenshot of what I wrote, which is NOT what you claim.

Screen Shot 2021-01-24 at 8.39.00 PM.png

I also included a link to the Handbook for Athletics, which is issued to every athlete, every season.  I did a search for anything in which athletes are informed they will be held to a standard while off campus.  I didn't find anything.  Maybe you can rub my nose in it, if you can find something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

How very fucking wrong you are.  I said I'd never heard of an athlete having to sign such an agreement.  Below is a screenshot of what I wrote, which is NOT what you claim.

Screen Shot 2021-01-24 at 8.39.00 PM.png

I also included a link to the Handbook for Athletics, which is issued to every athlete, every season.  I did a search for anything in which athletes are informed they will be held to a standard while off campus.  I didn't find anything.  Maybe you can rub my nose in it, if you can find something.

Ok you never heard of it. not going to debate it. 
There is an athletic contract in her district which is what my original point was referring. 

PA High School athletic contracts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Two gin martinis before 11 am your time???  Well done sir!

I just started on my first Gin & Tonic.  But hope to catch up to you soon.  

BTW - what's your favorite Gin?  I've recently discovered the "Botanist".  It's delicious but pricey.  It's a Scottish gin from Islay.  Makes sense since I also love Islay Single Malts.  My everyday gin is Bombay Sapphire.  I blame the Brit sailors I lived and partied with in Dubai.  I was never a big G&T fan until now.  Bloody addiction it is now.  

It was the first post where I fucked up last night was when I was on my 2nd.   (Not that your assumption that I am more cognizant with two martinis in me is off base.) 

Bombay Sapphire is in the cabinet.   But lately, I've had a penchant for Hendricks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Ok you never heard of it. not going to debate it. 
There is an athletic contract in her district which is what my original point was referring. 

PA High School athletic contracts

I accept your apology for the bullshit claim I said something I didn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

So, @Polytelum Tom, what is your take on this?  Where specifically do you stand on this issue?  Would you side with the school or the student if you were a SCOTUS justice for a day?  I've never been a fan of people who post stuff like this, but never personally take a stand one way or the other.  

I generally agree with the Koch-$pon$ored nutjob who wrote the topic article.

Not sure who you're talking about in your last sentence. I take lots of stands on issues here, and even more stands are falsely attributed to me, and I do it personally, meaning under my own name. I've never been a fan of anonymous fuckwits who gossip about named people while hiding their own identities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I accept your apology for the bullshit claim I said something I didn't.

You really are a whiny little baby. 

 You absolutely claimed you never heard of athletes being required to sign a code of conduct agreement.

 I  posted multiple examples of where athletes are required to SIGN those agreements including in PA, where this girl is from.  
 

So rather admit you were mistaken and misinformed you want to engage in petty “Ha ha I made you apologize.”  
 

I guess acting like a teenage girl must be part of being a teacher these days 


 




 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

You really are a whiny little baby. 

 You absolutely claimed you never heard of athletes being required to sign a code of conduct agreement.  I  posted multiple examples of where athletes are required to SIGN those agreements including in PA, where this girl is from.  
 

So rather admit you were mistaken and misinformed you want to engage in petty “Ha ha I made you apologize.”  
 

I guess acting like a teenage girl must be part of being a teacher these days 

I said I'd never heard of an athlete being asked to sign such an agreement.  I hadn't.  End of story.

You can post all the examples of such agreements, but it doesn't change what I wrote.  I'd never heard of that.

Fuck, what is it with you and Dog?  He doubts my neighbors said something to me and you question whether I have ever heard of something.

You guys aren't psychic, you're psycho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Joker said:

No one is regulating her speech.  It’s  the athletic department that is reminding her you can say whatever you want, but there will be consequences if you violate the agreement you and your parents signed 

Those "consequences" are the regulation. That's why it's going to the Supreme Court.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, benwynn said:

It was the first post where I fucked up last night was when I was on my 2nd.   (Not that your assumption that I am more cognizant with two martinis in me is off base.) 

Bombay Sapphire is in the cabinet.   But lately, I've had a penchant for Hendricks. 

I guess it's important with a martini.  For my go-to gin drinks, it matter fuck-all ... I use Seagrams or Gibson's or New Amsterdam.


- Mix in shaker:
     1. One shot gin
     2. One packet BC Aspirin powder (because a gentleman can't buy straight quinine anymore)
     3. Simple syrup
     4. Three or four thin slices of lime
     5. A lot of crushed ice

- Shake like the possessed by the spirit of Elvis.

- Decant into rocks glass

- Top with plain seltzer, or if you're a godless heathen, quinine water

- Add one thicker slice of lime

- Serve with red or black swizzle stick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Joker said:

I expect SCOTUS  will decide if Participating in Athletics is a privilege or a right.  

Removal of any academic opportunity is an example of regulation. The case isn't about her access to athletics, it's about the School's ability to regulate speech outside of school and school events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Joker said:

Nice attempt to deflect by posting the Schools code of conduct.   We are talking about the athletic department. As to your AD   I don’t care if they agree or disagree on the punishment.   I expect that it varies from district to district.  You claimed you personally had never heard of athletes having a code of conduct then you post the handbook.  Maybe in Baltimore the kids don’t Acknowledge, with a signature that they got the handbook. YCMTSU 

School, athletics ... the case is if the School (and by extension any organization in the school) can regulate speech outside of school.

As noted by Bus Driver's extraction  from their actual school policy, their school doesn't attempt to regulate speech out of school or school functions.

I can't say the same for a lot of schools in Colorado, they seem to get a bit more rigid here. This kind of thing is not uncommon here, unfortunately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

I had my first Dogballs rifle, a 10-shot bolt action repeater at age 7.  I got it for christmas when we were visiting my grandparents in Asheville, NC.  Dad and I walked right out the back door to go shoot it.  I think we spent an hour going over the safety and responsibility lectures before I was ever allowed to load it and pull the trigger.  I was taught that with privilege comes great responsibility.  I never forgot those lessons.  

FKT bragging about "namby-pamby", yeesh, that guy ...

We had a shooting range in our public high school and anyone with a $1 bill would receive a handful of ammo from the JROTC officer to wail away at the targets for a few minutes between classes. And we didn't have to sign one piece of paper. We didn't even need I.D.. If you had $1, you could shoot.

And we drank Moosehead beer for high school lunch, though not on school grounds, and we stole cigarettes at 8 years old and bought cigars at 12. I once got in trouble from my old man for drinking beer when I was 14 ... not because it was beer, but because it was non-union "scab" beer.

FKT, you have no idea what kind of hardcore people we were in the USA back in the day. I used to work 30 hours per week some weeks for $2.10 per hour, even though minimum wage was $3.65 per hour, and I was happy to get it, because I started at $2.00 per hour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I guess it's important with a martini.  For my go-to gin drinks, it matter fuck-all ... I use Seagrams or Gibson's or New Amsterdam.


- Mix in shaker:
     1. One shot gin
     2. One packet BC Aspirin powder (because a gentleman can't buy straight quinine anymore)
     3. Simple syrup
     4. Three or four thin slices of lime
     5. A lot of crushed ice

- Shake like the possessed by the spirit of Elvis.

- Decant into rocks glass

- Top with plain seltzer, or if you're a godless heathen, quinine water

- Add one thicker slice of lime

- Serve with red or black swizzle stick

Mine's easier:

Three shots gin into a shaker full of ice.

Shake like a an unfurled jib in the Santa Ana winds we had here on Tuesday.

Call friend in New York and have him pass bottle of Vermouth close to the phone.

Strain into glass and enjoy.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, benwynn said:

Mine's easier:

Three shots gin into a shaker full of ice.

Shake like a an unfurled jib in the Santa Ana winds we had here on Tuesday.

Call friend in New York and have him pass bottle of Vermouth close to the phone.

Strain into glass and enjoy.

 

That sounds delicious, but don't you worry about too much of that Vermouth coming through the phone lines?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, mikewof said:
34 minutes ago, benwynn said:

Mine's easier:

Three shots gin into a shaker full of ice.

Shake like a an unfurled jib in the Santa Ana winds we had here on Tuesday.

Call friend in New York and have him pass bottle of Vermouth close to the phone.

Strain into glass and enjoy.

 

That sounds delicious, but don't you worry about too much of that Vermouth coming through the phone lines?

Ben probably tells him to leave the cap on the bottle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/23/2021 at 10:00 PM, Polytelum Tom said:

Fuck School. Fuck Softball. Fuck Everything.
 

Now the Supreme Court will sort out whether she can say such a thing without consequences from her school.

Fuck your post Tom.

No one gives a fuck about this shit.  Litigating North American Scum.

If he loses, do you think she would get a gun and kill everyone at school?  Just to show them who's boss?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The case page on scotusblog:

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/mahanoy-area-school-district-v-b-l/

And the 3rd circuit opinion that is to be reviewed:

https://casetext.com/case/bl-v-mahanoy-area-sch-dist-3

Turns out the thread title is incomplete. She also said, "fuck cheer."

Quote

 

B.L. was frustrated: She had not advanced in cheerleading, was unhappy with her position on a private softball team, and was anxious about upcoming exams. So one Saturday, while hanging out with a friend at a local store, she decided to vent those frustrations. She took a photo of herself and her friend with their middle fingers raised and posted it to her Snapchat story. The snap was visible to about 250 "friends," many of whom were MAHS students and some of whom were cheerleaders, and it was accompanied by a puerile caption: "Fuck school fuck softball fuck cheer fuck everything." J.A. 484.

...

The coaches decided B.L.’s snap violated team and school rules, which B.L. had acknowledged before joining the team, requiring cheerleaders to "have respect for [their] school, coaches, ... [and] other cheerleaders"; avoid "foul language and inappropriate gestures"; and refrain from sharing "negative information regarding cheerleading, cheerleaders, or coaches ... on the internet." J.A. 439. They also felt B.L.’s snap violated a school rule requiring student athletes to "conduct[ ] themselves in such a way that the image of the Mahanoy School District would not be tarnished in any manner." J.A. 486. So the coaches removed B.L. from the JV team. B.L. and her parents appealed that decision to the athletic director, school principal, district superintendent, and school board. But to no avail: Although school authorities agreed B.L. could try out for the team again the next year, they upheld the coaches’ decision for that year. Thus was born this lawsuit.

B.L. sued the Mahanoy Area School District (School District or District) in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania. She advanced three claims under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 : that her suspension from the team violated the First Amendment; that the school and team rules she was said to have broken are overbroad and viewpoint discriminatory; and that those rules are unconstitutionally vague.

The District Court granted summary judgment in B.L.’s favor. ...

 

The 3rd Circuit then goes on to explain at length why they affirmed the District Court ruling, touching on many of the arguments in this thread.

I've skimmed it but have not followed links to cited opinions yet. All I really got out of it so far is a new screen name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 3rd linked to a 1971 case about a "Fuck the Draft" t-shirt. It said this:

Quote

while the particular four-letter word being litigated here is perhaps more distasteful than most others of its genre, it is nevertheless often true that one man's vulgarity is another's lyric.

Hope this doesn't get me tossed from the Koch-$pon$ored Trump cheerleading squad.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Pedagogical Tom said:

I generally agree with the Koch-$pon$ored nutjob who wrote the topic article.

 

Yes, we know. All we have to do to understand your opinion is to read Reason. You’re independently locked into following a rich guy’s views.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, mikewof said:

 

Actually, they have to decide if the lower courts got their rulings wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Actually, they have to decide if the lower courts got their rulings wrong. 

When you delete my words in your post, you may make your overlords happy that they don't have to soil their lily-white virgin eyeballs with words they don't want to read, but I no longer know what you're writing about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

That's a shame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Yes, we know. All we have to do to understand your opinion is to read Reason. You’re independently locked into following a rich guy’s views.

Heh. People who comment without reading because they think they know better are always amusing. In this case, because I haven't put a link to Reason in this thread at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/24/2021 at 3:53 AM, Steam Flyer said:

I disagree.

Fuck that kid and her parents. Let 'em eat cake.

This is the inherent problem in an orderly society, where people expect to eat food that is grown & prepared by others, and use machines that they don't understand... basically the huge range of benefits that they get but don't work directly for.

Deliberately throwing sand in the gears of that system should disqualify you from participating.

I'm a volunteer coach at our high school. I'd kick this girl out of our program in a heartbeat. Without a 2nd thought. I don't do what I do for the sake of some little snowflake to feel under appreciated and use hateful insults toward me and my program. If she wants the position, she needs to do the work. What happens when every other kid says "yeah, this is a lot of work, I want to just coast thru everything and get the same recognition."

Anybody who thinks they should impose their childish hatefulness and spite on everybody around them, at any time, can go live in the woods and eat grubs. Then say "Fuck everybody else!"

That's freedom.

- DSK

Fuck you,  you old cunt, would be the appropriate response to this reactionary tirade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, toad said:

Fuck you,  you old cunt, would be the appropriate response to this reactionary tirade

Yeah when I was about 9 years old, that was how I felt about much of the world too

Most people grow out of their childish entitlement and spite, and I did too... mostly.

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yeah when I was about 9 years old, that was how I felt about much of the world too

Most people grow out of their childish entitlement and spite, and I did too... mostly.

- DSK

That’s sad, 9 is twilight of the magical years. Anyway the school has overreached big time.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, toad said:

That’s sad, 9 is twilight of the magical years. Anyway the school has overreached big time.

Kids go thru stages, like the "Terrible Twos" when they first begin asserting independence. Childhood can be magical but it also brings learning.

I can certainly agree with the point that schools should not control speech or action away from school. OTOH all actions have consequences. My reading of this particular situation is that it's about the kid not getting advancement in an after-school program. These are almost universally run with at least the help of volunteers. In my own case, the programs I help with are -all- volunteer efforts.

If you like to get insulted and abused by people that you are putting in considerable effort to help, then jump right in. I don't. The kids i work with get a lot of wide latitude in what they do/say, and for the most part they are very well behaved and appreciative. So yeah, my rant came across as more curmudgeonly than I actually am, in practice. But there's a pretty well-defined line in the sand.

- DSK

[edit to add] Apologies for the lecturing/hectoring tone of the above. Did not mean it that way, just trying to explain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

That's a shame.

The irony here is that we're have a thread about nothing less than the Supreme Court stepping in to decide on an application of free speech, and you're an adult, censoring your own posts due to your desire to kowtow to handful of millionaires with sailboats.

"Yessir! Right away sir! Anything else for you sir? Oh, it's going to be a hot one today sir!" Of course, in this case, you're not even working for tips, just for the tacit approval of a bunch of people who likely don't give a junebug's two shits about you.

You're with friends here Raz'r, even when we pile on like a bunch of assholes. If someone tells you what you should and shouldn't post, just do what Ben Franklin would have done, and fart in their direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Kids go thru stages, like the "Terrible Twos" when they first begin asserting independence. Childhood can be magical but it also brings learning.

I can certainly agree with the point that schools should not control speech or action away from school. OTOH all actions have consequences. My reading of this particular situation is that it's about the kid not getting advancement in an after-school program. These are almost universally run with at least the help of volunteers. In my own case, the programs I help with are -all- volunteer efforts.

If you like to get insulted and abused by people that you are putting in considerable effort to help, then jump right in. I don't. The kids i work with get a lot of wide latitude in what they do/say, and for the most part they are very well behaved and appreciative. So yeah, my rant came across as more curmudgeonly than I actually am, in practice. But there's a pretty well-defined line in the sand.

- DSK

[edit to add] Apologies for the lecturing/hectoring tone of the above. Did not mean it that way, just trying to explain.

Some of these cheer programs are the opposite of volunteer, but I get the point that kids should be respectful.

That's not the case here though ... the decision is if a public institution should be allowed to regulate speech outside of school and school functions. If they can't, then while "all actions have consequences", those consequences can't necessarily come from the school.

It's a Slip 'N Slide ... what's the core difference between punishing a student since her attitude is insufficiently chipper and happy to her life in school, and China imprisoning a poet because his words were insufficiently chipper and happy to his life in China?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Pedagogical Tom said:

Heh. People who comment without reading because they think they know better are always amusing. In this case, because I haven't put a link to Reason in this thread at all.

You mentioned, in this thread, that you agree with Reason. (which, in your case, is completely unnecessary)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

I'm still curious about how she was "punished."  Seems to me if you don't want to adhere to the rules of a group you voluntarily joined, that group should be able to say "bye" if you reject their rules. 

You do know that Cheer is a voluntary, extra activity, yeah? And she didn't adhere to the rules she agreed to of that volunteer activity, right?

Now, I'm not saying the Supremes won't join in and say every snowflake is equal and every snowflake can cheer, they may certainly do that. I still think it's nutz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

I'm still curious about how she was "punished."  Seems to me if you don't want to adhere to the rules of a group you voluntarily joined, that group should be able to say "bye" if you reject their rules. 

You do know that Cheer is a voluntary, extra activity, yeah? And she didn't adhere to the rules she agreed to of that volunteer activity, right?

Now, I'm not saying the Supremes won't join in and say every snowflake is equal and every snowflake can cheer, they may certainly do that. I still think it's nutz.

Agreed.  Not to mention that she and her parents voluntarily agreed to abide by the code of conduct which clearly addresses the exact issue on what she did wrong.  

 

7 hours ago, Pedagogical Tom said:

which B.L. had acknowledged before joining the team, requiring cheerleaders to "have respect for [their] school, coaches, ... [and] other cheerleaders"; avoid "foul language and inappropriate gestures"; and refrain from sharing "negative information regarding cheerleading, cheerleaders, or coaches ... on the internet." J.A. 439. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Kids go thru stages, like the "Terrible Twos" when they first begin asserting independence. Childhood can be magical but it also brings learning.

I can certainly agree with the point that schools should not control speech or action away from school. OTOH all actions have consequences. My reading of this particular situation is that it's about the kid not getting advancement in an after-school program. These are almost universally run with at least the help of volunteers. In my own case, the programs I help with are -all- volunteer efforts.

If you like to get insulted and abused by people that you are putting in considerable effort to help, then jump right in. I don't. The kids i work with get a lot of wide latitude in what they do/say, and for the most part they are very well behaved and appreciative. So yeah, my rant came across as more curmudgeonly than I actually am, in practice. But there's a pretty well-defined line in the sand.

- DSK

[edit to add] Apologies for the lecturing/hectoring tone of the above. Did not mean it that way, just trying to explain.

Your are taking it personally and acting as if the the kids owe you- they don't. We have all been parents right? So we know the best way to alter behaviour is to go head on with the big hammer especially with teenagers-NOT! 

This is not an American thing but I think your culture of over policing  and retribution has seeped into the parenting psyche, ignore the kid and dont give it energy. Thats how you handle the 2 year olds (unless they are going to hurt themselves) If this girl had been ignored then her comments would disappear like the rest of the internet insultfest. Have you ever seen what kids get up to on the discords/ chats/reddit etc? wake up

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most School Districts are pretty F'd up anyway. My wife works for on that has 5 campuses and is building a new one that will probably not get used.

Everyone moves through the grades as a herd.

The problem with schools is the social clique. If you are not in, you are out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

 

The problem with schools humans is the social clique. If you are not in, you are out.

FTFY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mikewof said:

 

Imagine my posts are censored. Imagine!

Sorry you're all butthurt that I respect other posters enough to not quote the troll.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread, and the posts in it, is another perfect example of what is wrong with America.

That you even comment on the topic itself is fucked up, it's just another example of the me Me ME American attitude, manifesting itself again in a boring and trivial way.

Another example of the 'High Noon' mentality, where duel in the streets has been replaced by duels in the courtroom.

Boring as bat shit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Joker said:

Agreed.  Not to mention that she and her parents voluntarily agreed to abide by the code of conduct which clearly addresses the exact issue on what she did wrong.  

 

It will be interesting if the SCOTUS rules such policies are an overreach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

It will be interesting if the SCOTUS rules such policies are an overreach.

Oh, the court could easily say that it's over-reach to have club members represent the club.

The school can also cancel the club.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Oh, the court could easily say that it's over-reach to have club members represent the club.

The school can also cancel the club.

 

 

My question is how far the school can go in monitoring students when they are not in school?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Imagine my posts are censored. Imagine!

Sorry you're all butthurt that I respect other posters enough to not quote the troll.

Don't apologize, you've demonstrated the ultimate truism, "in the true police state, there is no longer a need for police, since every person embodies the ideals of policing themselves to any desire of the state."

You're censoring yourself.

But if you're okay with that, go for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I'm still curious about how she was "punished."  Seems to me if you don't want to adhere to the rules of a group you voluntarily joined, that group should be able to say "bye" if you reject their rules. 

You do know that Cheer is a voluntary, extra activity, yeah? And she didn't adhere to the rules she agreed to of that volunteer activity, right?

Now, I'm not saying the Supremes won't join in and say every snowflake is equal and every snowflake can cheer, they may certainly do that. I still think it's nutz.

The case is for "regulation."

I doubt the Supreme Court will say much of anything about cheers and snowflakes. The case is if a school can regulate speech outside of school or school functions.

But if you think this is "nutz" and you don't love this "animating contest of freedom" then in the words of Samuel Adams; "Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

My question is how far the school can go in monitoring students when they are not in school?

Funnily enough I have pondered this very question myself, but in the context of how far can an employer go in monitoring employees when they are not at work/using work equipment?

In Australia it seems that there is no limit, as the Govt pursued one of its employees posting criticisms anonymously from outside work hours using personal equipment and not identifying as an employee. IMO that was way over the top.

My GF used to carry her work phone and her personal phone. The work one got switched off outside hours.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

I guess you've not read the opinion the court is going to affirm or overturn (or play cheese-ball and send it back)

Nothing to do with regulation.

Per the district court:

Was it protected speech?  I think we all agree that's a yes

Was the agreement she had agreed to that constrained her speech overly broad?  I say no, the courts so far say yes.

They also ruled on whether she was coerced into agreeing, and if I read it correctly, stated she was not.

 

 

Not sure where you're digging up the regulation bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

I'm not sorry that you are missing a bit of attention by my not-posting your drivel. Ah well. Suck it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Not sure where you're digging up the regulation bit.

"Digging up"? Did you bother to actually read anything about the case?

Issue: Whether Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, which holds that public school officials may regulate speech that would materially and substantially disrupt the work and discipline of the school, applies to student speech that occurs off campus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

come on chaps get some context, this is a fucking nutjob society where half the people vote Trump, believe in a pedophile lizard master race conspiracies, rank number one in incest porn searches....also they have school police that terrorize 5 year olds- wtf is wrong with this picture?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

Sign, Tinker is a precedent case and is NOT the issue being discussed here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Raz'r said:
6 hours ago, Pedagogical Tom said:

Heh. People who comment without reading because they think they know better are always amusing. In this case, because I haven't put a link to Reason in this thread at all.

You mentioned, in this thread, that you agree with Reason. (which, in your case, is completely unnecessary)

LMAO. Doubling down on your non-reading skills? Too funny.

Quote the post where I did that or admit that you just spout off without reading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for my oversight of not posting anything from Reason in this thread, but I can fix it!

In other tasteless internet posts news, TN cops arrested a guy for harassing a dead cop by photoshopping a picture of pissing on his grave. Not exactly an isolated incident, but the first one I've seen in which the victim was actually dead at the time of the offense.
 

Quote

 

...

For example, in 2019 an Iowa man won a lawsuit after he was charged with third-degree harassment for saying online that a sheriff's deputy was a "stupid sum bitch" and "butthurt." (In hindsight, the latter seems undeniably true.)

Then there's the San Diego Police Department, which issued more than 80 tickets over the last decade for "seditious language" under an unconstitutional World War I–era law. The Voice of San Diego reported that the majority of the tickets were issued to minorities for allegedly using vulgarities.

Another Tennessee resident was arrested in 2017 after he wrote "Erin's police chief is a bitch" in white paint on the back of his car.

There's a wide body of case law upholding the right to flip off police officers, but despite this, arrests and tickets are still meted out to people who hurt cops' feelings by giving them the finger. Just this month, the Eight Circuit Court of Appeals denied qualified immunity to a Minnesota police officer who pulled over and arrested a man for flipping her off.

...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Pedagogical Tom said:

LMAO. Doubling down on your non-reading skills? Too funny.

Quote the post where I did that or admit that you just spout off without reading.

You're better than @Dog word games (post 115)

or maybe you aren't?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

You're better than @Dog word games (post 115)

or maybe you aren't?

You mean this?

22 hours ago, Pedagogical Tom said:

I generally agree with the Koch-$pon$ored nutjob who wrote the topic article.

Didn't read the topic article in the thread, huh? Not surprising, though I am surprised that you appear to have read the lower court decision. Good for you on that one.

But no, post 115 was not a reference to Reason because the topic article was not published by Reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Pedagogical Tom said:

You mean this?

Didn't read the topic article in the thread, huh? Not surprising, though I am surprised that you appear to have read the lower court decision. Good for you on that one.

But no, post 115 was not a reference to Reason because the topic article was not published by Reason.

So you and @Dog play the same games after all. Not surprised really, you're just back to the old nit-picky "i win the internet!" tricks. Enjoy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Pedagogical Tom said:

OK thanks!

Even without editing his posts, he clearly spouts off without reading, in this case, he didn't bother to read the upcoming Supreme Court case. he wrote that Tinker "is NOT the issue being discussed here."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pedagogical Tom said:

OK thanks!

having to resort to lies. Not even @Dogresorts to mis-quoting people. Dick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, mikewof said:

When you delete my words in your post, you may make your overlords happy that they don't have to soil their lily-white virgin eyeballs with words they don't want to read, but I no longer know what you're writing about.

Thats ironic, as the rest of us often have the same problem when your words are not deleted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Se7en said:

Thats ironic, as the rest of us often have the same problem when your words are not deleted.

Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. (I am large, I contain multitudes.) - Whitman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Raz'r said:

having to resort to lies. Not even @Dogresorts to mis-quoting people. Dick.

 

14 hours ago, Raz'r said:

You mentioned, in this thread, that you agree with Reason. (which, in your case, is completely unnecessary)

Not even @Dogresorts to mis-quoting people. Dick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/24/2021 at 12:47 PM, mikewof said:

If both fail at the same time, did you check the relay? A little moisture in there, and a relay will become an intermittent relay.

It was the tilt/trim motor. Water intrusion. New one on order.

But the mechanic did manage to scare away another problem, this time with my tractor. I'm going to have my wife make him a sticker for his van that says, "Mechanical Problems FEAR ME!"

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pedagogical Tom said:

 

Not even @Dogresorts to mis-quoting people. Dick.

I did not change your words. not my issue that you agree with everything a writer for Reason writes. Good little follower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/25/2021 at 9:23 PM, mikewof said:
On 1/25/2021 at 6:23 PM, Raz'r said:

Sign, Tinker is a precedent case and is NOT the issue being discussed here.


It's now clear that you didn't bother to actually read anything about the upcoming Supreme Court case.

They're going to discuss how Tinker applies to this case, https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/mahanoy-area-school-district-v-b-l/

I was going to wait until the case is decided to reply to that one, quoting from the decision. I guess I still will, and Raz will still make shit up about the topic case, you, me, and who knows what else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the kid's style. Fuck everything, and fuck being a stupid sexually objectified cheerleader.

She'll do well in life.

As for the Gin discussion, I would point out that drinking G&T in a warm climate without wearing a white Panama hat (and a slice of lime) is indicative of barbarism. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Happy said:

As for the Gin discussion, I would point out that drinking G&T in a warm climate without wearing a white Panama hat (and a slice of lime) is indicative of barbarism. 

Drinking G&T in any climate, in any manner, is a sign of effete decadence when there's OP rum available.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rum is vile shit, especially Bundy. Gentlemen don't touch it.

Good for lighting fires or getting a python to let go of your puppy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am totally stealing this!!

51 minutes ago, Happy said:

Rum is vile shit, especially Bundy. Gentlemen don't touch it.

Good for lighting fires or getting a python to let go of your puppy.

So, keep some rum handy... goddam pythons are sneaky bastards!

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
3 hours ago, Happy said:

Rum is vile shit, especially Bundy. Gentlemen don't touch it.

Good for lighting fires or getting a python to let go of your puppy.

So, keep some rum handy... goddam pythons are sneaky bastards!

- DSK

Do you club the python with the bottle? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Happy said:

Rum is vile shit, especially Bundy. Gentlemen don't touch it.

Well, that explains it, then. Thank God I'm an Australian.

I have a couple of cases of Inner Circle 78% ethanol OP rum. Not only it it 100% effective in repelling pythons, it serves the same purpose on elephants and crocodiles, even without opening a single bottle.

Wallabies & kangaroos OTOH are much hardier and utterly undeterred.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now