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Hello fellow anarchists

I'm looking at a nice boat to buy for a liveaboard project, mostly in marina but also travel (barcelona-balears in the med)
Boat is a 1989 oyster lightwave 395, that needS some renovation.

The think is that I don't know what might be the cost of it and it would be helpful to know, specially to negotiate price.
Things to be done:

- replace wood floor
- replace fresh water system, deposits, pumps, tubes, etc
- Add a boiler
- replace black water system, deposit and tubes, WC is okish
- replace all electric system, panel, wiring, lights etc...
- redo V-berth to be more like a home bed
- redo the settes in the saloon

- repaint interior, what to use?

Can you help me with estimates?

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Also what do you think of the boat? 

THANK YOU!

 

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I'd want to know how the floor got that bad - was the boat immersed or did someone just not take care of the bilge while the boat was on the hard?

Also, no one is going to give you estimates - it all really depends on how much you're doing yourself and how much you're contracting out. And if you are planning to live aboard while doing the reno's, expect everything to take 3 times as long.

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If the Oyster Lightwave 395 is like the other similar Schumacher designs like the Express 37, Olson911S, etc., the bilge is very shallow and it wouldn't take a lot of water to mess up the floorboards but leave other stuff mostly alone. 

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estimates are for doing it myself, not living in it while renovating.

Bilge is very shallow and there is water coming from the mast when it rains, that is why the floorboards are  damaged, and the bilge pump is not automatic.

 Also boat has been not very well taken by the owner.

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How much is the asking price and how much would the same or similar boat sell for if it were in good condition?  Do you have a survey?  Most of your questions might be answered by a good surveyor who can actually look at the boat, knows the cost of things in your area and what similar boats have recently sold for. 

Except for the electrical system and adding a boiler the rest of what you listed probably wouldn't be too expensive.  Why does the entire electrical system need replacing?  By electrical do you mean all the instruments too?  That's one of those projects that may start simple and end up being an absolute nightmare and very expensive.  The bigger question and most expensive part of the project is all the things you'll find that you don't even know about yet.

Renovating boats almost never results in a good bargain unless you just want to half-ass patch things up enough for it to be usable and not concerned about doing everything the correct way.   I think the reality is the only reason to buy this boat is because you really like this particular boat and like boat projects regardless of how cheap you can buy it.    Even if you buy it at a good price you'll be lucky in the end if it costs close to the same price you could have bought one in good condition for without the hassle and hard work.  That's not to say buying it and taking on a project boat isn't fun or a good idea if you like working on boats, it's just not a good idea if you're worried about cost or looking for a bargain.  The advantages of a project boat is if it's done well you'll end up with a boat that's in great shape and everything is just the way you like it, despite your depleted bank account.

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Materials could get up to ten thousand euros. Tanks, nice woods and electrical stuff can get expensive, along with water heaters. Shouldn't take more than three DIY years. Don't quite understand need to replace all the plumbing & wiring.  None of it works now?

  

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It' is a first look at the project, All should work, but at first glance electric and plumbing seemed not very nice.

Maybe things can be salvaged or replaced later or really do not need to be replaced at all as you say.

Asking price is 36k€, I have a deal for 30k€ which I intended to lower to 25k€ given the work that needs to be done.

 

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Well wait a minute - all we are seeing and commenting on is the condition of the interior. How about the structural condition of the hull? Below the waterline...decks? Condition of sails?

I'd be starting there in terms of figuring whether that boat is worth buying.  Yachtworld shows prices for similar boats US$40-60K. You could spend $20K on sails and rigging alone depending on condition.

$1-2K spent for a really good survey would be the best money you spend.

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I also think it's critically important to consider how you plan on using your boat when preparing your estimates.

You said "liveaboard project, mostly in marina but also travel (barcelona-balears in the med)" in which case the sails and rigging are slightly less important, as well as the overall timeline in terms of getting things done.

If you're "mostly in marina" you'll probably have a chandlery close by, so you can fix things related to electrical and plumbing as they break and as required, rather than renovating the entire boat all at once. It would be much different if you were planning on going world cruising to remote locations.

That said, you really want to start with a solid foundation, especially hull, decks, rig. 

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1 hour ago, psycho tiller said:

Even if you buy it at a good price you'll be lucky in the end if it costs close to the same price you could have bought one in good condition for without the hassle and hard work.  That's not to say buying it and taking on a project boat isn't fun or a good idea if you like working on boats, it's just not a good idea if you're worried about cost or looking for a bargain.  The advantages of a project boat is if it's done well you'll end up with a boat that's in great shape and everything is just the way you like it, despite your depleted bank account.

The difference, which few or no people ever mention is that all the project stuff will be new, not just "less worn" which would be the case with another one "in good condition".

That said, I always steer people away from project boats unless they are capable of doing at least most of the work themselves.

Restoring a boat by writing cheques for pro's is one of the better routes to bankruptcy.

As to the original question of "how much"? - no way of telling other than it will be a lot more than expected, even with meticulous planning.

If the purchase price is a reach, I'd recommend against buying.

If it's a personally easy amount then go ahead - Oysters have a very good rep and bring good prices.

These comments are based on experience gained restoring 5 boats from 26' to 43' over the past 25 years.

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So you make a list. A list of all the things you need to buy. You create a spread sheet and type in the boxes the items you need to buy. You then do a web search to find the prices. Examples: Chart plotter, pumps, electrical panel, hose, batteries, wire, etc.  You sum the columns. Then you add it all up and multiple by 2-3. Easy.

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