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20 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

I expect this to come to a head real quick.

Mark Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks gave the WSB a silver bullet on Friday.

He explained, they since they actually own the shares and have put them out to be "borrowed" for shorting, an owner can call in those borrowed shared forcing the hedgies to pay for them NOW.

No paying to get another month of time to let this die down.


If Wall Street plays hard ball, the WSB folks can force this in days.

The only question is what short do they attack next (and who will get destoryed by such a move).

 

I love this information that Mark put out there, but, he forgot for a minute, he is a billionaire.

I asked my brokerage about this idea, and they said that you need to have a minimum liquid equity balance in your trading account of $250,000 in order to directly lend your shares to the short-sellers.   I suppose if everyone in WSB pooled their money together into an actual "fund", then it could be done, but, in reality, how many retail investors have that kind of cash sitting in reserves in their brokerage accounts.   I know I don't.

 

 

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Actually, one small (3 or 4 branches) bank called Abacus owned by a Chinese/American family got prosecuted. I recently watched a documentary on it - called "Small Enough To Jail". That whole

Your broker can only lend your shares to shorts if you have a margin account. My son is one of the autism spectrum kids playing. Most of them have 30 or fewer shares. This represents essentially

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

you need to have a minimum liquid equity balance in your trading account of $250,000 in order to directly lend your shares to the short-sellers.

Two questions.

1, what does it matter to the short sellers who are borrowing your shares how much cash you have in your trading account.

2, why would anyone have 1/4 a mill in a trading account, trading accounts don't accrew interest (I thought).

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24 minutes ago, floating dutchman said:

Two questions.

1, what does it matter to the short sellers who are borrowing your shares how much cash you have in your trading account.

2, why would anyone have 1/4 a mill in a trading account, trading accounts don't accrew interest (I thought).

It's the requirement of the brokerages.   It's how they stop the little guy from participating in the next level of trading.  Brokerages have all kinds of requirements when you want to trade.  Some accounts require a minimum deposit to even open an account.  Some brokerages need you to have at least $50,000 invested with them to turn on options trading.  Some brokerages require $100k invested with them to turn on real-time data from the exchanges instead of the usual 20min delay.   etc....  it goes on and on and on.   Then to get the advanced option plays you need to have an account age of at least one year or sometimes five depending on what level of advanced plays you want to do, often with an increase in the amount invested with them.   It's a club that they don't want you in unless you have money.

One trick to get around many of these barriers is to open your brokerage account for trading at the same bank that has your retirement account.  Your retirement money is counted toward these requirements.  But, I don't have liquid in that account to turn on the feature Mark Cuban talked about.  Maybe I will after I sell my GME stock.  Bwahahahaha.  :D

My trading account does accrue interest in my liquid account. It's considered a Money Market account. I think it's like 2% or a little less. It's used for any cash positions as well as when you are clearing deposits, or equity sells.  Having funds in there does help extend your margin levels, which I think is the point of their requirement.

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7 hours ago, floating dutchman said:

Please explain why you think that flooding the market with stocks that you don't even own with the intention of driving the price down to what you think is "the original level" just to make a quick buck is O.K?

These slime contribute nothing to society, they drive stock prices down to leach of the hard working folk that are actually working in the company.

How is this not wrong?  I am genuinely interested, please explain.

aZ0Nev6_460swp.webp

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

It's the requirement of the brokerages.   It's how they stop the little guy from participating in the next level of trading.  Brokerages have all kinds of requirements when you want to trade.  Some accounts require a minimum deposit to even open an account.  Some brokerages need you to have at least $50,000 invested with them to turn on options trading.  Some brokerages require $100k invested with them to turn on real-time data from the exchanges instead of the usual 20min delay.   etc....  it goes on and on and on.   Then to get the advanced option plays you need to have an account age of at least one year or sometimes five depending on what level of advanced plays you want to do, often with an increase in the amount invested with them.   It's a club that they don't want you in unless you have money.

 

also, by limiting your ability to trade and having to go through "them", they take a percentage of the transaction...   it's an atm fee on steroids.

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1 hour ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

also, by limiting your ability to trade and having to go through "them", they take a percentage of the transaction...   it's an atm fee on steroids.

Lets go back to 2008 and the financial melt down.

The brokerages made lots of money as regular folks had to liquidate their positions/life savings.  They do not care if you make or lose money. They just want their cut for executing the trade.  Now they see the risk that the short sellers has no way to pay for the trade and they may have folks come after them.

There is no law to protect them.  The SEC is clueless.

How will they handle the margin calls?

 

Love to hear the phone calls going on this weekend on how to extricate themselves from this mess.  Bet is it ruining the secret social get togethers that get around lock downs.

How dare those dirty peasants...

 

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37 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

Love to hear the phone calls going on this weekend on how to extricate themselves from this mess.  Bet is it ruining the secret social get togethers that get around lock downs.

How dare those dirty peasants...

 

I was saying the same thing tonight at dinner.  They are absolutely scrambling to get funding.   

Here is a tasty tidbit.  The Billions of Dollars that Steve Cohen and Citadel gave to Melvin Capital on Monday has been burned up with margin interest and losses this week.  All of it.  Melvin owes around $300M of interest every day they hold their short positions.  If they have no one to save them by Monday they will most likely be insolvent. Personally, I think they already are.  I guess we will see who will bail them out next.  At some point, the street is just gonna let Melvin die like they did with Lehman Brothers and decide they will be the sacrificial lamb they can point to.

Isn't this way more interesting to talk about instead of politics?  So burned out on that shit.

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Looks like Silver shorting is next on the list.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/reddit-preparing-unleash-worlds-biggest-short-squeeze-silver\

 

This is the territory of big TBTF (To Big To Fail) banks.  The shit is just starting to hit the proverbial fan..

Anyone want to do a drive by of Treasury in DC to see how many cars are parked in front on this snowy Sunday morning when everything is supposedly locked down?

Willing to bet there will be a lot of pizza delivered over the course of the day.  Just like for Hank Poulsen and team  mid October of 2008.

Hard to shore up the lines when the attacks are at diverse targets.

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2 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

Looks like Silver shorting is next on the list.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/reddit-preparing-unleash-worlds-biggest-short-squeeze-silver\

 

This is the territory of big TBTF (To Big To Fail) banks.  The shit is just starting to hit the proverbial fan..

Anyone want to do a drive by of Treasury in DC to see how many cars are parked in front on this snowy Sunday morning when everything is supposedly locked down?

Willing to bet there will be a lot of pizza delivered over the course of the day.  Just like for Hank Poulsen and team  mid October of 2008.

Hard to shore up the lines when the attacks are at diverse targets.

following...

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2 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

Looks like Silver shorting is next on the list.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/reddit-preparing-unleash-worlds-biggest-short-squeeze-silver\

 

This is the territory of big TBTF (To Big To Fail) banks.  The shit is just starting to hit the proverbial fan..

Anyone want to do a drive by of Treasury in DC to see how many cars are parked in front on this snowy Sunday morning when everything is supposedly locked down?

Willing to bet there will be a lot of pizza delivered over the course of the day.  Just like for Hank Poulsen and team  mid October of 2008.

Hard to shore up the lines when the attacks are at diverse targets.

Silver next , that's not what the talking heads are saying?

It's interesting that this Boomer has heard/learn new terms about $$ this year, Repro market ,QE, shadow banking , dark pools, Fiat money,.....................

It's funny talking to people here, there broker is always doing good for them when the market goes up, , Now a 10year old can out do the big brokers

A 10-year-old investor made big bucks on the GameStop shares

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1 hour ago, Foreverslow said:

Looks like Silver shorting is next on the list.

When the Hunt brothers tried to corner the silver market back in the 1970s, they didn't realize one thing.  How much silver there is in the world.  A lot.  

What got the Hunts was that as the price of silver rose, people were selling grandma's silver, silver coins and even old x-rays that had silver in them as part of the photo process.  There was so much silver on the market that the Hunts couldn't possibly buy it all and the price crashed, or rather went back where it belonged. 

If a group starts to short the silver market, I imagine a lot of people hording all of those big and little silver bars they bought will come out of the woodwork when the price starts to go over $100-$150 an ounce.

About 1.74 million metric tons of silver have been discovered to date.

 

 

From the World Gold Council

Total above-ground stocks (end-2019): 197,576 tonnes

  1. Jewelry: 92,947 tonnes, 47.0%
  2. Private investment: 42,619 tonnes, 21.6%
  3. Official Holdings: 33,919 tonnes, 17.2%
  4. Other: 28,090 tonnes, 14.2%
  5. Below ground reserves: 54,000 tonnes

Gold is far more rare than silver.

The largest use for gold is jewelry, a little more than the amount held in bullion by governments and private individuals combined.  The largest use for silver is in industries.

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This event reminds me of a situation one of my department heads was in decades ago.

She was a total gambler on the market, not an investor in any sense.

One night she came to me for some advice on her current situation.

She had bought some "gold futures contracts options" - total bullshit paper with zero substance. The options were coming due and she was upside down.

I told her to take delivery of the gold, even at a small loss and hold it until the price rose.

She called her broker to do it and totally freaked them out - there was not one person in the office that even knew how to do it. All they did was shuffle bullshit paper all day for market gamblers.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

This event reminds me of a situation one of my department heads was in decades ago.

She was a total gambler on the market, not an investor in any sense.

One night she came to me for some advice on her current situation.

She had bought some "gold futures contracts options" - total bullshit paper with zero substance. The options were coming due and she was upside down.

I told her to take delivery of the gold, even at a small loss and hold it until the price rose.

She called her broker to do it and totally freaked them out - there was not one person in the office that even knew how to do it. All they did was shuffle bullshit paper all day for market gamblers.

first rule of gold;  If you don't own it physically, you ain't got shit.

you'll say with me   If you don't own it physically, you ain't got shit.

They give you a piece of paper saying you own x ounces.  How do you know they did not print that same piece of paper 1000 times and sell it to 999 other trusting folks?

Or that they will not disappear with all of it should SHTF?

In fact how do you know the federal reserve has all the gold they say they do?  That is why Rand Paul wants to audit the Fed.  Could be the US dollar is actually worth a lot less if it were found that the gold reserves are not there due to some folks moving bullion and then making the paperwork disappear.

Over the past 10 years China has been moving the gold they purchased home not trusting the US.   Ditto some European countries.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

This event reminds me of a situation one of my department heads was in decades ago.

She was a total gambler on the market, not an investor in any sense.

One night she came to me for some advice on her current situation.

She had bought some "gold futures contracts options" - total bullshit paper with zero substance. The options were coming due and she was upside down.

I told her to take delivery of the gold, even at a small loss and hold it until the price rose.

She called her broker to do it and totally freaked them out - there was not one person in the office that even knew how to do it. All they did was shuffle bullshit paper all day for market gamblers.

Makes you wonder if the gold in the futures actually existed...

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2 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

When the Hunt brothers tried to corner the silver market back in the 1970s, they didn't realize one thing.  How much silver there is in the world.  A lot.  

What got the Hunts was that as the price of silver rose, people were selling grandma's silver, silver coins and even old x-rays that had silver in them as part of the photo process.  There was so much silver on the market that the Hunts couldn't possibly buy it all and the price crashed, or rather went back where it belonged. 

If a group starts to short the silver market, I imagine a lot of people hording all of those big and little silver bars they bought will come out of the woodwork when the price starts to go over $100-$150 an ounce.

About 1.74 million metric tons of silver have been discovered to date.

 

 

From the World Gold Council

Total above-ground stocks (end-2019): 197,576 tonnes

  1. Jewelry: 92,947 tonnes, 47.0%
  2. Private investment: 42,619 tonnes, 21.6%
  3. Official Holdings: 33,919 tonnes, 17.2%
  4. Other: 28,090 tonnes, 14.2%
  5. Below ground reserves: 54,000 tonnes

Gold is far more rare than silver.

The largest use for gold is jewelry, a little more than the amount held in bullion by governments and private individuals combined.  The largest use for silver is in industries.

All the gold ever mined since the start of human civilization would stack inside of a single large suburban house.

But even that is a lot compared to the rare earth element dopants in electronics. All of the tantalum or tellurium ever mined would fit inside of a truck.

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1 hour ago, Foreverslow said:

In fact how do you know the federal reserve has all the gold they say they do?  That is why Rand Paul wants to audit the Fed.  Could be the US dollar is actually worth a lot less if it were found that the gold reserves are not there due to some folks moving bullion and then making the paperwork disappear.

Irrelevant. Nixon took the US off the gold standard.

"Fort Knox" has zero to do with the value of the greenback.

The buck - and all currencies - is what the right wingers like to call "Fiat money" like it's monopoly money because it isn't backed with gold.

I can't even imagine what gold would be worth if the buck was still backed with it - a hundred thousand an ounce or something I suspect.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

All the gold ever mined since the start of human civilization would stack inside of a single large suburban house.

But even that is a lot compared to the rare earth element dopants in electronics. All of the tantalum or tellurium ever mined would fit inside of a truck.

More Mikey bullshit.

This is just some of what is stored just in Swiss banks.

Almost 200,000 tons of gold has been mined and since it's inert, all of it still exists somewhere.

It's heavy stuff but a suburban house? :rolleyes:

image.png.d5f90ff8452bcaa06a53b2aaa7e7f3b5.pngimage.png.75ff41bce679194a30c9917d45b6c1b3.pngimage.png.7122ed7622c097f83316489c9e7da0d4.png

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7 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

Looks like Silver shorting is next on the list.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/reddit-preparing-unleash-worlds-biggest-short-squeeze-silver\

 

This is the territory of big TBTF (To Big To Fail) banks.  The shit is just starting to hit the proverbial fan..

Anyone want to do a drive by of Treasury in DC to see how many cars are parked in front on this snowy Sunday morning when everything is supposedly locked down?

Willing to bet there will be a lot of pizza delivered over the course of the day.  Just like for Hank Poulsen and team  mid October of 2008.

Hard to shore up the lines when the attacks are at diverse targets.

ahhhh  the days of the Hunt brothers..

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

More Mikey bullshit.

This is just some of what is stored just in Swiss banks.

Almost 200,000 tons of gold has been mined and since it's inert, all of it still exists somewhere.

It's heavy stuff but a suburban house? :rolleyes:

All the gold ever collected thought to be a 20 meter cube. 35,000 sq. ft. home? About the size of Mikey’s ego.

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I cannot for the life of me work out what shenanigans Wall Street has for the honest working man.

But I'm sure as heck that he won't like it.

Will Reddit win?

Or Will the Redditors sell in mass hoping to make the wonder profit?

Or will all the the borrowed stocks get magically returned at there original price, because it was all just a big mistake?

What will be?

 

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The mistake here is thinking there are good guys on one side and bad guys on the other. WSB is just Q anon for stocks, the hedge funds that got caught in the squeeze were reckless in their positions, however almost certainly right on the fundamentals. A year from now there will be lots of money lost on both sides. I would also not at all be surprised if it is discovered that the WSB hype was manipulated by the exact type of Wall St insider that the group purports to be taking it to. The valuation of the stock is entirely disconnected from the underlying fundamentals, once the short squeeze ends, and they always do, the stock will be back in single digits. The WSBers who are still holding long positions when the squeeze ends will have nobody to sell to, and the stock will collapse. My advice would be to stay far away from the train wreck. The only sensible play here is on the short side, however the short side is so obvious that the profit potential does not overcome the risk, particularly in the short term. Buying way out of the money puts would be the play I would make if I were to make any, however the Feb 26 $100 puts are trading at $34, so the stock would need to trade down to $65 in the next 3 weeks just to break even. If the fundamentals even remotely justified the price the stock is at currently, then those options would be near 0. If you are a believer in the company, it would be a no brainer to write put options all day long. I mean if you think the stock is worth 350, why would you not take someone's $34  in exchange for granting them the right to sell it to you for 100. Doing that would mean you would either pocket the $34 or bought the stock at an effective price of $66. The problem is that at $66 it is still overvalued by approx. %900. 

Yes, WSB has found the soft underbelly of some hedge funds that were short the stock. But in taking advantage of the soft underbelly to squeeze the shorts, lots of folks are going to lose a fortune on the long side thinking that they are sticking it to the man, when they are really just flushing away their savings. 

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14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

More Mikey bullshit.

This is just some of what is stored just in Swiss banks.

Almost 200,000 tons of gold has been mined and since it's inert, all of it still exists somewhere.

It's heavy stuff but a suburban house? :rolleyes:

 

Mikey's just an idiot with a keyboard and a hyper-inflated ego.  I wonder what his latest doctorate is in.

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49 minutes ago, LenP said:

The mistake here is thinking there are good guys on one side and bad guys on the other. WSB is just Q anon for stocks, the hedge funds that got caught in the squeeze were reckless in their positions, however almost certainly right on the fundamentals. A year from now there will be lots of money lost on both sides. I would also not at all be surprised if it is discovered that the WSB hype was manipulated by the exact type of Wall St insider that the group purports to be taking it to. The valuation of the stock is entirely disconnected from the underlying fundamentals, once the short squeeze ends, and they always do, the stock will be back in single digits. The WSBers who are still holding long positions when the squeeze ends will have nobody to sell to, and the stock will collapse. My advice would be to stay far away from the train wreck. The only sensible play here is on the short side, however the short side is so obvious that the profit potential does not overcome the risk, particularly in the short term. Buying way out of the money puts would be the play I would make if I were to make any, however the Feb 26 $100 puts are trading at $34, so the stock would need to trade down to $65 in the next 3 weeks just to break even. If the fundamentals even remotely justified the price the stock is at currently, then those options would be near 0. If you are a believer in the company, it would be a no brainer to write put options all day long. I mean if you think the stock is worth 350, why would you not take someone's $34  in exchange for granting them the right to sell it to you for 100. Doing that would mean you would either pocket the $34 or bought the stock at an effective price of $66. The problem is that at $66 it is still overvalued by approx. %900. 

Yes, WSB has found the soft underbelly of some hedge funds that were short the stock. But in taking advantage of the soft underbelly to squeeze the shorts, lots of folks are going to lose a fortune on the long side thinking that they are sticking it to the man, when they are really just flushing away their savings. 

All very true.  Someone is going to own that stock when it hits its inflection point and starts losing value.  However, a lot of the complaints that wallstreetbets has are valid.  The rich DO play their own game with their own rules.  Just take a look at how brokerages bar entry into many investment vehicles based on the amount you invest.  Or take a look at how the owners of those brokerages shut off the public access to investing in Gamestop to protect their own positions.  They even went so far as to sell Gamestop stock without the owners permission, and then they tried to shore up their public image by announcing they were reopening gamestock sales, even though they limited those sales to ONE share per person.

There will always be different rules for those with means, and those that know the 'right people'.  Our last president is a shining example.  I have some admiration for the people who are causing this entire affair.  It's good, on occasion, to be reminded that the King has no clothes.

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Some dumb fuck hedge guys played the Black Swan sweepstakes and lost. Now, if you’re one of the guys sticking it to the man, the first one out makes a killing. The last one? Loses his shirt. The incentives to keep turning the knife aren’t aligned across all the Longs.

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22 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Some dumb fuck hedge guys played the Black Swan sweepstakes and lost. Now, if you’re one of the guys sticking it to the man, the first one out makes a killing. The last one? Loses his shirt. The incentives to keep turning the knife aren’t aligned across all the Longs.

This is not about making a profit.

Many Robinhooders are only buying 1 share.

This is a kamikaze mission where you lose your 500 bucks on 1 share, but make a hedgie take a major hit (so far 7 billion dollars lost and the interest is killing Melvin Capital).  The 2.3 billion lent to them by Citadel and Point72 on Thursday is GONE!   Wall Street at least wants the kiddies to sell so they can begin the process of wrapping this up.  Ain't happening.

With no shares to buy, Melvin is screwed.

 

Another thing I am hearing is there may be up to 30 million counterfeit shares of GME out there.  Now that could be a smokescreen to cover the clusterfuk of Melvin shorting more shares than exist.  So take it with a grain of salt.

Bottom line is this has legs.   If you want some amusement, watch CNBC this morning.   Crazy man Jim Cramer is talking 4 octaves higher like the old lady cut his nuts off with a rusty pruning tool this morning.  Trying to calm the masses, but he knows the score if this continues.  I am waiting for them to blame the snowstorm even though the markets are electronic..

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10 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

This is not about making a profit.

Many Robinhooders are only buying 1 share.

This is a kamikaze mission where you lose your 500 bucks on 1 share, but make a hedgie take a major hit (so far 7 billion dollars lost and the interest is killing Melvin Capital).  The 2.3 billion lent to them by Citadel and Point72 on Thursday is GONE!   Wall Street at least wants the kiddies to sell so they can begin the process of wrapping this up.  Ain't happening.

With no shares to buy, Melvin is screwed.

 

Another thing I am hearing is there may be up to 30 million counterfeit shares of GME out there.  Now that could be a smokescreen to cover the clusterfuk of Melvin shorting more shares than exist.  So take it with a grain of salt.

Bottom line is this has legs.   If you want some amusement, watch CNBC this morning.   Crazy man Jim Cramer is talking 4 octaves higher like the old lady cut his nuts off with a rusty pruning tool this morning.  Trying to calm the masses, but he knows the score if this continues.  I am waiting for them to blame the snowstorm even though the markets are electronic..

I suspect that in this case, many of the kamikaze pilots have no idea what the nature of their mission is and what the outcome for them will be. This will be a costly lesson on the consequences of greed and vengeance for folks on both sides. 

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58 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

This is not about making a profit.

Many Robinhooders are only buying 1 share.

This is a kamikaze mission where you lose your 500 bucks on 1 share, but make a hedgie take a major hit (so far 7 billion dollars lost and the interest is killing Melvin Capital).  The 2.3 billion lent to them by Citadel and Point72 on Thursday is GONE!   Wall Street at least wants the kiddies to sell so they can begin the process of wrapping this up.  Ain't happening.

With no shares to buy, Melvin is screwed.

 

Another thing I am hearing is there may be up to 30 million counterfeit shares of GME out there.  Now that could be a smokescreen to cover the clusterfuk of Melvin shorting more shares than exist.  So take it with a grain of salt.

Bottom line is this has legs.   If you want some amusement, watch CNBC this morning.   Crazy man Jim Cramer is talking 4 octaves higher like the old lady cut his nuts off with a rusty pruning tool this morning.  Trying to calm the masses, but he knows the score if this continues.  I am waiting for them to blame the snowstorm even though the markets are electronic..

30 million phantom shares? Some depository institution is gonna take it in the shorts. So to speak.

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41 minutes ago, LenP said:

I suspect that in this case, many of the kamikaze pilots have no idea what the nature of their mission is and what the outcome for them will be. This will be a costly lesson on the consequences of greed and vengeance for folks on both sides. 

Lessee

$5000 "invest" at $10/share = 500 shares

current price is 238 (down 80 today) so market value of $119k

Think that $80 drop is just noise? no way. Momma found out this weekend what Daddy did, and grabbed him by the balls to force him to sell. That $80 share drop cost our hypothetical "investor" $40k

 

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Lessee

$5000 "invest" at $10/share = 500 shares

current price is 238 (down 80 today) so market value of $119k

Think that $80 drop is just noise? no way. Momma found out this weekend what Daddy did, and grabbed him by the balls to force him to sell. That $80 share drop cost our hypothetical "investor" $40k

 

Yep, at some point the damn begins to crack and the longs start to take money off the table. Eventually it will find equilibrium somewhere south of $1. Probably stays a bumpy ride down until then. 

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19 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

More Mikey bullshit.

This is just some of what is stored just in Swiss banks.

Almost 200,000 tons of gold has been mined and since it's inert, all of it still exists somewhere.

It's heavy stuff but a suburban house? :rolleyes:

image.png.d5f90ff8452bcaa06a53b2aaa7e7f3b5.pngimage.png.75ff41bce679194a30c9917d45b6c1b3.pngimage.png.7122ed7622c097f83316489c9e7da0d4.png

That was a stat that I learned in third grade, so okay, a lot of gold has been mined since then. We'll do the math ...

Lessee, gold's density is 206 lbs. per cubic foot. The updated amount is 3.6x10^8 pounds of gold mined so far, so with the density ratio that's 1.8x10^6 cubic feet of gold.

Okay, seems too big now for a large suburban home. Howabout a large suburban mansion? Lessee, the Biltmore Estate is 135,280 square feet, average 15 foot ceilings, that's 2 million some cubic feet, that mansion should hold all the gold ever mined in the history of human civilization. Now we all need to do is move into 136,000 square foot homes.

I guess the non-math point here is that gold is rare.

Given that, it's now nearly impossible to buy silver because of the WSB actions. I don't know what will come of this, but I wish I had some silver to sell now.

 

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52 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

30 million phantom shares? Some depository institution is gonna take it in the shorts. So to speak.

It'll end up on us, if history is an accurate judge of these things.

That's part of the reason the SEC made these naked shorts and synthetic bets illegal.

Yeah, they'll privatize the profits, but they'll also find a way to socialize these losses, they always do.

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they are bricks

you can build a suburban brick house

it would be mighty mighty unless you build the roof outta it

 

then it likely would be lettin it all hang down

 

 

anyone yelling this is Biden's fault, happed on his watch

I heard a speaker of the house bought Millions of stock of an electric vehicle company

a couple daz befor announcing the Feds would be buying their fleets from said company ??

 

 

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43 minutes ago, LenP said:

Yep, at some point the damn begins to crack and the longs start to take money off the table. Eventually it will find equilibrium somewhere south of $1. Probably stays a bumpy ride down until then. 

The longs will lose a couple Etherium, and a few Lightcoins here and there. They don't seem to care. The shorts have had to buy back those inflated shares, and the end is apparently not today.

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2 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

My advice to the bettors: "Happy wife, happy life"

Sell it and pay off her student loans.

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

My advice to the bettors: "Happy wife, happy life"

Sell it and pay off her student loans.

they are about to be forgiven anyway as we SINK

What is This Stock BS going to do to Interest Rates

I see $5+ gal gas and 7% Prime by Summer

and every other person in So Kalifornia homeless

State will make a fortune selling empty Prisons

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2 minutes ago, DA-WOODY said:

they are about to be forgiven anyway as we SINK

What is This Stock BS going to do to Interest Rates

I see $5+ gal gas and 7% Prime by Summer

and every other person in So Kalifornia homeless

State will make a fortune selling empty Prisons

This stock bs is not even a gnat on the ass of an elephant. 

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For the math challenged, there is no difference in your net trading loss if you short sell 100 shares of a stock at 10 and are forced to cover at 350, vs buying 100 shares at 350 and selling it at 10. The greedy and ignorant will lose considerable sums regardless of which side they played. I would also point out that synthetic log and short positions are trading strategies and perfectly legal. I think it makes sense to avoid the train wreck, however that comes from a place where I believe it is foolish for me to willingly lose money in return for causing an equivalent loss to a billionaire. I am just not that attached to revenge, despite my Sicilian ancestry. 

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5 hours ago, LenP said:

The mistake here is thinking there are good guys on one side and bad guys on the other. WSB is just Q anon for stocks, the hedge funds that got caught in the squeeze were reckless in their positions, however almost certainly right on the fundamentals. A year from now there will be lots of money lost on both sides. I would also not at all be surprised if it is discovered that the WSB hype was manipulated by the exact type of Wall St insider that the group purports to be taking it to. The valuation of the stock is entirely disconnected from the underlying fundamentals, once the short squeeze ends, and they always do, the stock will be back in single digits. The WSBers who are still holding long positions when the squeeze ends will have nobody to sell to, and the stock will collapse. My advice would be to stay far away from the train wreck. The only sensible play here is on the short side, however the short side is so obvious that the profit potential does not overcome the risk, particularly in the short term. Buying way out of the money puts would be the play I would make if I were to make any, however the Feb 26 $100 puts are trading at $34, so the stock would need to trade down to $65 in the next 3 weeks just to break even. If the fundamentals even remotely justified the price the stock is at currently, then those options would be near 0. If you are a believer in the company, it would be a no brainer to write put options all day long. I mean if you think the stock is worth 350, why would you not take someone's $34  in exchange for granting them the right to sell it to you for 100. Doing that would mean you would either pocket the $34 or bought the stock at an effective price of $66. The problem is that at $66 it is still overvalued by approx. %900. 

Yes, WSB has found the soft underbelly of some hedge funds that were short the stock. But in taking advantage of the soft underbelly to squeeze the shorts, lots of folks are going to lose a fortune on the long side thinking that they are sticking it to the man, when they are really just flushing away their savings. 

when does the movie come out?

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Hedgies are running a "Short Ladder Attack".  It's a street market trick to drive a price down without actually covering your short positions.  They must be getting desperate. 

The hedges can manipulate the computer that decides the price, by moving a lot of stocks between themselves which is seen in the eyes of the computer as actual sales when in reality they haven't left the hedge funds sight.  They have been doing this daily since the start of last week and will continue to do so until the squeeze. They are trying to trick retail investors into bailing on their positions to keep the price of the stock down.  As long as the redditors hold steady, we will reach Valhalla.  :D

Exciting times....  This stuff never used to be visible to the average investor.  

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Steve Cohen is in a bit of trouble.

His Point72 fund tried to save Melvin Captial last week.   That money went POOF! with Melvin's.

 

So he starts a new fund as the ROI on POint72 is not going to pretty.  Already trying to distance himself from this flaming pile of dog poop.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/steve-cohen-opens-fund-new-investor-cash-after-losses-melvin-capital-bailout

 

the investors at Point72 and Melvin Capital are not going to be amused that their money is gone.

 

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4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

My advice to the bettors: "Happy wife, happy life"

Sell it and pay off her student loans.

This is a perfect time to apply the old rule - "The bulls get rich, the bears get rich and the pigs get nothing".

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My $200 stop-loss order triggered after hours.  :(  I'm out.  I guess I should be happy I made money, but, I was hoping for the big spike.

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Its at $190 right now.

image.png.d4228ee4300d75416d40596190ca634a.png

 

You probably don't have access to after-hours trading.

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Robinhood email today:

  • “Last week, in part due to volatility in some popular stocks, Robinhood’s deposit requirements rose tenfold. The combination of the deposit increase and the extraordinary increase in volume on these particular symbols led us to put temporary buying restrictions in place on a small number of those stocks. 
  • We had to take steps to limit buying in those volatile stocks to ensure we could comfortably meet our deposit obligations. We didn’t want to stop people from buying stocks and we certainly weren’t trying to help hedge funds. “
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If anyone is curious as to how this whole GME call position came from.  Here is the man, the myth, the legend with his thesis on why GME was in a strong position to be a value position back in July.   Now, not so much today, but back when it was trading between $4-$6 he provides an in-depth analysis why he felt the stock was massively undervalued and noted how OVER shorted it was and recommended a long position on it back in July.

He's a beantown wiz kid and is wicked pissah.


SIDE NOTE: He is still long on GME.  Here are his positions as of last Friday.  (He posts updates once a week).

og8ca1xskxe61.png

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18 hours ago, DA-WOODY said:

I see $5+ gal gas and 7% Prime by Summer

Can somebody please tell me why people in the US seem to be fixated on the price of gas?  Everywhere I look, I hear dire predictions that gas will go to $5.00 a gallon and the world will end. 

Along with just about everyone else in Europe, I've been paying $4.00-$6.00 a gallon for gas for the last 12 years.  Before that, I spent 9 years in Germany working for the US military and we got our gas for about 30-40% less by buying gas coupons on the base and using them at Esso stations in Germany. We were limited to about 100 gallons a month.  I knew people that would freak out if they used most of their gas ration for the month, and they needed to make a long trip.  I was like "Dude, you can always buy gas at the local price.", and they would look at me aghast at such a possibility.

Anyway, my world hasn't ended in the last 12 years, I still eat well and spend my funds as I please, my needs are simple.  I don't know that I've ever heard anybody here complain about the price of gas. Given that I live on the Polish German border however, we do get a lot of Germans coming to get gas that is about $1.00 a gallon cheaper here, due to lower taxes and labor costs than it is in Germany.  But they are East Germans and they are notoriously tight bastards. 

I think $5.00 a gallon gas in the US would be a good thing.  It would save energy, force folks to stop buying obscenely large vehicles (although it seems many large people might need a large vehicle but that's another story), and encourage more use/improvements of public transportation.  All good things in my opinion.

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21 hours ago, Foreverslow said:

 

Another thing I am hearing is there may be up to 30 million counterfeit shares of GME out there.  Now that could be a smokescreen to cover the clusterfuk of Melvin shorting more shares than exist.  So take it with a grain of salt.

 

Naw.  It's just the perversion of the stock market.  A short involving borrowing a stock from someone and then selling it, with the belief you can rebuy it later at a lower price and give it back.  So what's happening is the same piece of stock is being borrowed, sold, then borrowed by someone else, and so on.

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I think the whole affair is just a prime example of why we can't have nice things.

And it's going to get way worse before, if ever, it gets better.

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42 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Can somebody please tell me why people in the US seem to be fixated on the price of gas?  Everywhere I look, I hear dire predictions that gas will go to $5.00 a gallon and the world will end. 

Along with just about everyone else in Europe, I've been paying $4.00-$6.00 a gallon for gas for the last 12 years.  Before that, I spent 9 years in Germany working for the US military and we got our gas for about 30-40% less by buying gas coupons on the base and using them at Esso stations in Germany. We were limited to about 100 gallons a month.  I knew people that would freak out if they used most of their gas ration for the month, and they needed to make a long trip.  I was like "Dude, you can always buy gas at the local price.", and they would look at me aghast at such a possibility.

Anyway, my world hasn't ended in the last 12 years, I still eat well and spend my funds as I please, my needs are simple.  I don't know that I've ever heard anybody here complain about the price of gas. Given that I live on the Polish German border however, we do get a lot of Germans coming to get gas that is about $1.00 a gallon cheaper here, due to lower taxes and labor costs than it is in Germany.  But they are East Germans and they are notoriously tight bastards. 

I think $5.00 a gallon gas in the US would be a good thing.  It would save energy, force folks to stop buying obscenely large vehicles (although it seems many large people might need a large vehicle but that's another story), and encourage more use/improvements of public transportation.  All good things in my opinion.

I bought Houses ...... Never had a New car

bought a 2003 F150 a couple months ago for $800 with $650 of New tires (got the receipt)

had a dead valve so I pulled the heads had them rebuilt and replaced all wear parts with NEW

thats WP, Fan clutch all pulleys, belt and all emissions shit

purrs like a kitten and should be reliable for Long Time

People now pay as muck for a New Smelling Kar or Truck as I did for my 1st house and they don't blink - FUCK Dat !!

$5 gas SUCKS as it still goes for low $2 in parts NOT around me

Like the markets of this thread the price of Gas is manipulated

those closing the pipeline from Kanada Likely are invested in Oil somewhere else

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Your broker can only lend your shares to shorts if you have a margin account.

My son is one of the autism spectrum kids playing. Most of them have 30 or fewer shares. This represents essentially nothing to them, except the chance for peasants on the autism scale to stick it to aristocrats. The kids think Wall Street is talking up silver to distract them from GME, they're not biting. 

This is entertainment for the geeky isolated. If the rest are like him, it's not the money, it's the fun, and the chance to screw some big shots. 

Nice to see SAC take it in the shorts. Can't think of a more deserving person. 

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1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

Can somebody please tell me why people in the US seem to be fixated on the price of gas?  Everywhere I look, I hear dire predictions that gas will go to $5.00 a gallon and the world will end. 

Along with just about everyone else in Europe, I've been paying $4.00-$6.00 a gallon for gas for the last 12 years.  Before that, I spent 9 years in Germany working for the US military and we got our gas for about 30-40% less by buying gas coupons on the base and using them at Esso stations in Germany. We were limited to about 100 gallons a month.  I knew people that would freak out if they used most of their gas ration for the month, and they needed to make a long trip.  I was like "Dude, you can always buy gas at the local price.", and they would look at me aghast at such a possibility.

Anyway, my world hasn't ended in the last 12 years, I still eat well and spend my funds as I please, my needs are simple.  I don't know that I've ever heard anybody here complain about the price of gas. Given that I live on the Polish German border however, we do get a lot of Germans coming to get gas that is about $1.00 a gallon cheaper here, due to lower taxes and labor costs than it is in Germany.  But they are East Germans and they are notoriously tight bastards. 

I think $5.00 a gallon gas in the US would be a good thing.  It would save energy, force folks to stop buying obscenely large vehicles (although it seems many large people might need a large vehicle but that's another story), and encourage more use/improvements of public transportation.  All good things in my opinion.

Gas and SUVs are the new Bread and Circuses.

IMHO, $5+/gal gas would be the best thing that could happen to the US. 

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Your broker can only lend your shares to shorts if you have a margin account.

My son is one of the autism spectrum kids playing. Most of them have 30 or fewer shares. This represents essentially nothing to them, except the chance for peasants on the autism scale to stick it to aristocrats. The kids think Wall Street is talking up silver to distract them from GME, they're not biting. 

This is entertainment for the geeky isolated. If the rest are like him, it's not the money, it's the fun, and the chance to screw some big shots. 

Nice to see SAC take it in the shorts. Can't think of a more deserving person. 

Frankly, the end result of this is that anyone who is getting into Gamestop shorts NOW is probably going to make out like a bandit.  So by artifically pumping the stock, they're probably creating a bigger short situation than previously.

Of course, it's hard to say.  The reason a multi billion dollar fund like that goes SO short on a stock isn't necessarily because they think it's going to totally fail.  They move the market just by placing the shorts, and when people see billions pumped into a short on a stock, most people will follow the trend and the companies makes money just on the momentum of the stock.

Sometimes, these firms short the stock to drive the price down so they can pick up the company for a song, then part it out and make money on their 'expert consultation' that they provide the company while driving it into bankrupty.  Toys 'R Us is a perfect example of a company intentionally driven into the ground by their hedge fund owners, all while the owners charged the company hundreds of millions in 'fees'.  The hedge fund itself broke even on the deal, but the individuals in the fund charging the fees made hundreds of millions.

The rich play by different rules that we do.

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5 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

If anyone is curious as to how this whole GME call position came from.  Here is the man, the myth, the legend with his thesis on why GME was in a strong position to be a value position back in July.   Now, not so much today, but back when it was trading between $4-$6 he provides an in-depth analysis why he felt the stock was massively undervalued and noted how OVER shorted it was and recommended a long position on it back in July.

He's a beantown wiz kid and is wicked pissah.


SIDE NOTE: He is still long on GME.  Here are his positions as of last Friday.  (He posts updates once a week).

og8ca1xskxe61.png

It's also reasonable to see why the shorts targeted it ...

I can only assume that in their sufficiently insulated positions, they saw a largely brick-mortar retail outlet, run by fairly conservative management, in the midst of the pandemic, with downloadable options in front of everyone, and they figured something like "hey, Circuit City"?

Regardless GME's upside, I've little doubt that the hedge funds wouldn't have inflicted significant damage to the company if not for a highly motivated fan base of gamers, many of whom had some crypto to toss into conventional stocks.

From my own personal asking-around, two of these people never held a stock before GME, they considered it "old man stuff" and all of their money was made in Bitcoin, Lightcoin, Ripple, Ethereum, etc.. Their first toe in the stock market, and they help move a mountain.

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

Gas and SUVs are the new Bread and Circuses.

IMHO, $5+/gal gas would be the best thing that could happen to the US. 

Sure...

The economy would crash within a month.  Our society is built on cheap energy

1.Will see inflation on all products and services as every business adds this to their cost of doing business.

2. You annual Amazon account would either get rid of free delivery or your annual fee would triple. 

3. when it hiappens, people will not travel.  the hotels and end destinations are toast.

4. will be some good deals on 68 chevelles and camaros from kids who will not be able to afford them.

5. Head shot to the struggling restaurants.  Folks will forgo eating out to fill up the SUV.  They always do.

6. Likely see truckers shutting down cities in blockade protests as this would kill the independent truckers just like last time.  AS that happens, goods do not get delivered done currently.  Fresh produce will start to look like shit.  There will be delays getting products and parts.

 

Best watch what you ask for..   We have been here before.

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4 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

Can somebody please tell me why people in the US seem to be fixated on the price of gas?  Everywhere I look, I hear dire predictions that gas will go to $5.00 a gallon and the world will end. 

Along with just about everyone else in Europe, I've been paying $4.00-$6.00 a gallon for gas for the last 12 years.  Before that, I spent 9 years in Germany working for the US military and we got our gas for about 30-40% less by buying gas coupons on the base and using them at Esso stations in Germany. We were limited to about 100 gallons a month.  I knew people that would freak out if they used most of their gas ration for the month, and they needed to make a long trip.  I was like "Dude, you can always buy gas at the local price.", and they would look at me aghast at such a possibility.

Anyway, my world hasn't ended in the last 12 years, I still eat well and spend my funds as I please, my needs are simple.  I don't know that I've ever heard anybody here complain about the price of gas. Given that I live on the Polish German border however, we do get a lot of Germans coming to get gas that is about $1.00 a gallon cheaper here, due to lower taxes and labor costs than it is in Germany.  But they are East Germans and they are notoriously tight bastards. 

I think $5.00 a gallon gas in the US would be a good thing.  It would save energy, force folks to stop buying obscenely large vehicles (although it seems many large people might need a large vehicle but that's another story), and encourage more use/improvements of public transportation.  All good things in my opinion.

 

Yes, $5/gallon gas in the USA would change things for the better in a few ways, but that would also necessitate $3/liter gas or diesel price in Europe, which might fuck with things a bit there.

Europe has much more established infrastructure than the USA, and we get cheaper gas here because it's a much more critical driver to our economies than it is in Europe, our economies of scale are much higher in the refineries, though the Eurozone supposedly helped with that. But also Europeans live a simpler life than Americans, you folks will cook a meal from basic ingredients sourced from a few miles from where you buy, the American equivalent of that is having our ingredients drop-shipped at our front door, assembled at some logistics hub a thousand miles away. We do that here because the low price of gas makes it cheaper to do so, and if the price of gas goes high, we can't immediately adapt to a European or Asian style of life anyway, the refineries pivot, suddenly the acronym OPEC finds its way back into casual conversation.

Once you get a few hundred miles away from the East Cost and Eastern Midwest, rail transport gets thin, and everything that is ingested, or physical object purchased has to go through road transport. Right now, gasoline and diesel are priced about the same, but I remember times when diesel was actually more expensive due to gasoline demand.

When gas prices rise, people drive less, the air gets cleaner, those are good things, but the walkability in Europe is an order of magnitude higher in many cases, in the USA, it results in a general slowdown of the economy. In a sense, gasoline is a twilight industry, vehicles are increasingly electrified, lots of young people don't even own cars or want cars, they manage with ride-share, car-share and urban neighborhoods. But twilight industries are the most profitable industries there are, because their investments winds down as their markets wind down. We'll have gasoline for easily another fifty years, because batteries rely on a lot of uncontrollable resources, like rare earths, and capacitors are slow in coming. But more likely, there will be places to buy gasoline and diesel for at least another hundred years in the USA, our infrastructure is so deeply tied to petroleum ... part of the reason we went off the gold standard in stages in the 1900s is because we moved instead to an unofficial petroleum standard, and that's why we use the price of a barrel of oil as one of the most reliable economic indicators that we know. The U.S.A. essentially controls the global oil market, while OPEC controls the global oil supply, and that was cast when "cowboys and arabs" set up Saudi ARab-AMerican COmpany set out to do exactly that ...

 

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34 minutes ago, Foreverslow said:

Sure...

The economy would crash within a month.  Our society is built on cheap energy

1.Will see inflation on all products and services as every business adds this to their cost of doing business.

2. You annual Amazon account would either get rid of free delivery or your annual fee would triple. 

3. when it hiappens, people will not travel.  the hotels and end destinations are toast.

4. will be some good deals on 68 chevelles and camaros from kids who will not be able to afford them.

5. Head shot to the struggling restaurants.  Folks will forgo eating out to fill up the SUV.  They always do.

6. Likely see truckers shutting down cities in blockade protests as this would kill the independent truckers just like last time.  AS that happens, goods do not get delivered done currently.  Fresh produce will start to look like shit.  There will be delays getting products and parts.

 

Best watch what you ask for..   We have been here before.

I didn't say all at once but if it got there over 5 years, it would accelerate the existing trends towards electrification and renewables without the shocks you describe.

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GameStop below 100 now. Does that still hurt the shorts, or are some of them going to survive this as the various brokerages throttle the Redditteers? 

Really sorry I could not figure out how to short this when it got to 500, I predict it will be below 20 by the end of the week unless somehow some of the shorts are still hurting and have to buy.

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10 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

If anyone is curious as to how this whole GME call position came from.  Here is the man, the myth, the legend with his thesis on why GME was in a strong position to be a value position back in July.   Now, not so much today, but back when it was trading between $4-$6 he provides an in-depth analysis why he felt the stock was massively undervalued and noted how OVER shorted it was and recommended a long position on it back in July.

He's a beantown wiz kid and is wicked pissah.


SIDE NOTE: He is still long on GME.  Here are his positions as of last Friday.  (He posts updates once a week).

og8ca1xskxe61.png

This kind of dispels the notion of a naive reddit investor with a couple of shares to punt. It is a pretty thorough long analysis, but interestingly a short squeeze while maybe a remote possibility in his mind back in July 2020, didn't really seem to be his focus(or was it?...). He saw the company as a viable steady earner over the next five years. Maybe the short positions would have driven the price into the ground without the resistance they encountered...who knows now?

In fact, he thought it might be a '3 bagger...maybe a 5 bagger'. I'm only familiar with a '2-bagger' which is a term from a classic Rodney Dangerfield joke about his wife, but can only assume he thought the share might go 5x on the high side...around $25. Pretty wild ride if he held on and managed to get out.

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1 hour ago, fufkin said:

This kind of dispels the notion of a naive reddit investor with a couple of shares to punt. It is a pretty thorough long analysis, but interestingly a short squeeze while maybe a remote possibility in his mind back in July 2020, didn't really seem to be his focus(or was it?...). He saw the company as a viable steady earner over the next five years. Maybe the short positions would have driven the price into the ground without the resistance they encountered...who knows now?

In fact, he thought it might be a '3 bagger...maybe a 5 bagger'. I'm only familiar with a '2-bagger' which is a term from a classic Rodney Dangerfield joke about his wife, but can only assume he thought the share might go 5x on the high side...around $25. Pretty wild ride if he held on and managed to get out.

The WSB subrredit-ers like to pretend they are just a bunch of retarded monkeys throwing bananas around, but, there is always a core of people in there that vet this kind of investing idea and present a very in-depth analysis as to why the move may (or may not) be a good strategy.   Sure, there are plenty of casual members who just are looking to take a ride on the backs of others, but the genesis is usually based on a sound strategy.

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2 hours ago, TheDragon said:

GameStop below 100 now. Does that still hurt the shorts, or are some of them going to survive this as the various brokerages throttle the Redditteers? 

Really sorry I could not figure out how to short this when it got to 500, I predict it will be below 20 by the end of the week unless somehow some of the shorts are still hurting and have to buy.

Pretty easy. Margin account. Enough equity. Enter trade as short. Can’t do it in retirement account because you can’t add cash to cover a massive short squeeze. 

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Seems to me, now that the game is afoot, that the hedgies are now well incentivised to pull a reverse squeeze on the WSBers just to get even. They have (or perhaps had)money to risk, compared to the now ebullient Redditers. I'd think twice or thrice before jumping on the next big WSB thing!

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1 hour ago, Willin' said:

Seems to me, now that the game is afoot, that the hedgies are now well incentivised to pull a reverse squeeze on the WSBers just to get even. They have (or perhaps had)money to risk, compared to the now ebullient Redditers. I'd think twice or thrice before jumping on the next big WSB thing!

I've known two hedge fund managers, smart enough, rather wealthy, one of them was the son of my stochastics professor. But neither were in the same league as some of the simulated annealing and probability programmers I've known, who grew up playing those fantasy games, and now drink Rockstars and build $50k gaming machines.

I'm with Maui on this one, there is an undercurrent of very smart people in WSB, that can likely notice any zig or zag from the hedges and respond three moves ahead of them. If the hedgies know what's good for them, they would step back quietly, and hope to fly below the radar for a while.

I hope they take on the Redditors ... they'll lose again.

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On 2/1/2021 at 9:24 AM, LenP said:

For the math challenged, there is no difference in your net trading loss if you short sell 100 shares of a stock at 10 and are forced to cover at 350, vs buying 100 shares at 350 and selling it at 10. The greedy and ignorant will lose considerable sums regardless of which side they played. I would also point out that synthetic log and short positions are trading strategies and perfectly legal. I think it makes sense to avoid the train wreck, however that comes from a place where I believe it is foolish for me to willingly lose money in return for causing an equivalent loss to a billionaire. I am just not that attached to revenge, despite my Sicilian ancestry. 

Mathematically, yes, but there is one significant difference.   If you own the stock at $350 the most you can lose is $350.  If you short the stock, there is no limit to the amount of money you can lose, because it can go much higher than $350.  Of course, there is a practical limit, a stock can never have infinite value.  

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og8ca1xskxe61.png

WTF?  The guy has $35M in the market?  JFC, why not sell out and live the rest of your life doing whatever you want, then end it all in a huge conflagration of hookers and blow?  I mean, how much money is enough?

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2 hours ago, Borax Johnson said:

Pretty easy. Margin account. Enough equity. Enter trade as short. Can’t do it in retirement account because you can’t add cash to cover a massive short squeeze. 

Can’t do it in a retirement account because you can’t have leverage (borrowing) in a retirement account.

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11 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

og8ca1xskxe61.png

WTF?  The guy has $35M in the market?  JFC, why not sell out and live the rest of your life doing whatever you want, then end it all in a huge conflagration of hookers and blow?  I mean, how much money is enough?

The first billion is always the hardest.

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11 minutes ago, Rain Man said:

og8ca1xskxe61.png

WTF?  The guy has $35M in the market?  JFC, why not sell out and live the rest of your life doing whatever you want, then end it all in a huge conflagration of hookers and blow?  I mean, how much money is enough?

very well put, You see these guys ( Koch) that die with billions, well there still dead,

I see down here keeping up with the Jones's? doesn't any one think for themselves anymore?

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I wish I bought in back in July like he did.  My cashout didn't even get close to that position.  Sigh.

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6 hours ago, Rain Man said:

I mean, how much money is enough?

 Gee, I don't know.  Maybe ask Bill Gates, or Jeff Bezos, or Elon Musk, or...

Personally I think the answer is it's never enough.  Imagine having billions and not being able to stop, there's more money out there, more, more. more.

It isn't about the money at those levels, it's about a mental illness.  I don't envy those folks one bit.

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11 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Mathematically, yes, but there is one significant difference.   If you own the stock at $350 the most you can lose is $350.  If you short the stock, there is no limit to the amount of money you can lose, because it can go much higher than $350.  Of course, there is a practical limit, a stock can never have infinite value.  

I was talking about a closed position, so the risk would already be accounted for. But you are right, that while the position is open you could potentially have unlimited risk in the short position. That is why I would look at an options strategy for something like this, that is if I were interested in monkeying around with it at all. The puts I mentioned up thread would have been the play over the last couple days. 

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those kiddies best watch out.

The criminal element is about to be unleashed.

Yellen to lead panel after takingc lose to a million bucks from Citadel Capital.  Wonder how much that ethics waiver cost and whether she paid for it, we taxpayers paid for it, or Steve Cohen paid for it.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/yellen-gets-ethics-waiver-lead-regulatory-crusade-against-hft-after-taking-700k-citadel

 

 

 

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