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High Buisness Taxes Cause Solid Businesses


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Points well taken... 

Also note... Texas enjoys the same United States stability and protections as California. 
Businesses often start in California because so many brilliant minds have sought out places like Cal Tech and Stanford. 

once the businesses are established, they can move to Texas to exploit the cheap uneducated labor and lack of restrictions on polluting the environment. 
 

federal corporate tax rates have ZERO to do eith relocating from California to Texas 

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50 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Points well taken... 

Also note... Texas enjoys the same United States stability and protections as California. 
Businesses often start in California because so many brilliant minds have sought out places like Cal Tech and Stanford. 

once the businesses are established, they can move to Texas to exploit the cheap uneducated labor and lack of restrictions on polluting the environment. 
 

federal corporate tax rates have ZERO to do eith relocating from California to Texas 

Why didn't those businesses relocate to Kansas?

They slashed their tax rate specifically to attract business. But they did not have the financial resources to sustain such low state income, and states cannot print their own money.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

* My OP presents a generality 

>> When the choice is between giving money to the government and using that money to pay the humans, buy better equipment, and generally invest in the  business the clear selfish choice is to spend the money on the business 

To that end and purely with respect to only that factor  my answer to @jzk is higher taxes on profits do help the BUSINESS . 
Higher taxes encourage reinvestment 

 

** @Lark Prrsented the argument, “Higher taxes encourage businessmen to seek a better deal elsewhere.”
 

>> That is absolutely accurate. To be successful in our desire to have a vibrant economy, we must  present an entire package that is superior. 
   We have had a solid steady government. Our police protect personal property. Our communication and transportation systems still function well. 
  Investments in the USA are less risky than in most of the other 194 countries. 
   Investors do not like risk. Investors will accept a lower return on investment if the results are predictable and reliable. 
    Investors don’t mind paying for defense, police, transportation infrastructure, education, healthcare or ANYTHING they can reasonably accept as good for their long term success.

    **+Cashing out at the first opportunity is a little easier with low tax rates. Cashing out is fantastic for investors but it often kills the business. 
 

++++++++++++
I contend the US corporate tax rate is currently so low,  It swings the “cash out early pendulum” too far from “reinvest snd sustain.”

 

 

 

 

Another thing is that "there is an infinite amount of capital available for the infinite deal.". Given the amount of dead capital out there wanting to be live, the infinite need not be so infinite.

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The idea with corporate taxation was to tax retained earnings. The profits, by and large, were to be returned to the shareholders. (Imagine that!) If re-investment was needed the shareholders would buy newly issues shares. However the income tax code was very unfavorable for this so the experts suggested a workaround, as they always do. The tax code is always decades behind the clever accountants. Traditional corporate accounting is a rarity today with only paltry dividends. Replaced by stock buybacks because capital gains taxes are much lower than regular income tax on dividends. Plus the LLC is used where possible.

Lawmakers work just slow enough to give the accountants a trillion dollar advantage.

VAT anyone?

 

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1 hour ago, nacradriver said:

Couple of questions here...

Why are so many business leaving CA for TX.... give ya a hint.... taxes.

Whey are so many companies setting up in Ireland and other tax havens  give ya a hint ..... taxes  How much USA corporate tax has Apple paid?

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/issues/corporate-taxes/highlights-of-apples-tax-dodging/

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-offshore-corporate-tax-loopholes/

When companies have lower margins because if higher tax, who get screwed?   Give ya a hint... the consumer..

They don't need a higher tax, just fix the loopholes....  but we know that will never happen because the blue team is just a fucking greedy as the red team which makes for one mother fucking greedy purple team.

 

 

Interesting, so, by that logic, no companies are starting in California cuz taxes. Right. 
 

hint, 1, 2 or 10 companies in a country the size of California does not a trend make. 

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28 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

The idea with corporate taxation was to tax retained earnings. The profits, by and large, were to be returned to the shareholders. (Imagine that!) If re-investment was needed the shareholders would buy newly issues shares. However the income tax code was very unfavorable for this so the experts suggested a workaround, as they always do. The tax code is always decades behind the clever accountants. Traditional corporate accounting is a rarity today with only paltry dividends. Replaced by stock buybacks because capital gains taxes are much lower than regular income tax on dividends. Plus the LLC is used where possible.

Lawmakers work just slow enough to give the accountants a trillion dollar advantage.

VAT anyone?

 

Yes and that is where the "effective" tax rate kicks in

There are many different sets of numbers for "profit." Sales income - cost of goods sold = profit. But wait, we have to pay rent and the light bill and the employees! Yes and each little bit comes out, there's a new (and specifically termed) profit.

Gross (of course) comes before net.

But your point is good, and it actually plays into G's point.... when everything is paid for, and the business still has money left over, if they don't want to pay taxes they can give it to employees (who then pay income tax) or invest in research or improve their facilities or any number of other things that end up taking that money out of the bucket getting taxed by the gov't.

The righties of course only see TAXES!! as a goddam red flag... ain't no taxes ever done no good fer nobody!!

The last business I worked for had a year-end profit sharing deal that meant they paid very little or no tax year after year. I paid income tax on it instead! Actually a better deal for the gov't since I pay a higher marginal tax rate but also a good deal for me.

The tax finaglers of course work out ways for the corporate overlords to stick more into their own pockets and not pay tax on it. Although with the top rate at 35% I would say why bother.

- DSK

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yes and that is where the "effective" tax rate kicks in

There are many different sets of numbers for "profit." Sales income - cost of goods sold = profit. But wait, we have to pay rent and the light bill and the employees! Yes and each little bit comes out, there's a new (and specifically termed) profit.

Gross (of course) comes before net.

But your point is good, and it actually plays into G's point.... when everything is paid for, and the business still has money left over, if they don't want to pay taxes they can give it to employees (who then pay income tax) or invest in research or improve their facilities or any number of other things that end up taking that money out of the bucket getting taxed by the gov't.

The righties of course only see TAXES!! as a goddam red flag... ain't no taxes ever done no good fer nobody!!

The last business I worked for had a year-end profit sharing deal that meant they paid very little or no tax year after year. I paid income tax on it instead! Actually a better deal for the gov't since I pay a higher marginal tax rate but also a good deal for me.

The tax finaglers of course work out ways for the corporate overlords to stick more into their own pockets and not pay tax on it. Although with the top rate at 35% I would say why bother.

- DSK

Now you got me thinking.

What if low tax rates are a governments way of saying "we know you're going to dodge paying taxes, so let's make a rate low enough to make deductions disadvantageous".

 

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49 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Now you got me thinking.

What if low tax rates are a governments way of saying "we know you're going to dodge paying taxes, so let's make a rate low enough to make deductions disadvantageous".

 

The rich don't pay expensive tax consultants to find ways to pay more taxes (you'll need to change and simplify the tax code if you want equality) but even middle school teachers are not interested in giving back more of their money to the government to spend on shit like bailing out wall street bankers, paying for military adventurism, manufacturing WMD's, maintaining military occupations etc. etc. etc. WTF? 

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On 1/31/2021 at 11:26 AM, learningJ24 said:

If the goal is economic growth, why should we care if Xbox guy gets it?

Because it has to be taken from the people who earned it to give it to the welfare Xbox guy so he can buy his Cheetos and beer.  Why not let the people who earned it spend it on what they want.  If Xbox guy wants to buy Cheetos and beer he should get off his ass, work, and spend $$ he earned.  I work 9 hours a day at my day job and then 2-3 hours after that on a side gig so that I can get ahead so yea I have an opinion of F the lazy bastards.  If I can work 12 hours a day they can at least work 6.  

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On 1/31/2021 at 11:26 AM, learningJ24 said:

If the goal is economic growth, why should we care if Xbox guy gets it?

Because it has to be taken from the people who earned it to give it to the welfare Xbox guy so he can buy his Cheetos and beer.  Why not let the people who earned it spend it on what they want.  If Xbox guy wants to buy Cheetos and beer he should get off his ass, work, and spend $$ he earned.  I work 9 hours a day at my day job and then 2-3 hours after that on a side gig so that I can get ahead so yea I have an opinion of F the lazy bastards.  If I can work 12 hours a day they can at least work 6.  

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22 minutes ago, rockb said:

Because it has to be taken from the people who earned it to give it to the welfare Xbox guy so he can buy his Cheetos and beer.  Why not let the people who earned it spend it on what they want.  If Xbox guy wants to buy Cheetos and beer he should get off his ass, work, and spend $$ he earned.  I work 9 hours a day at my day job and then 2-3 hours after that on a side gig so that I can get ahead so yea I have an opinion of F the lazy bastards.  If I can work 12 hours a day they can at least work 6.  

ahh, you think your taxes are somehow going to the lazy ass? You might want to check where your $s are REALLY going. It's WAY up the food chain, it ain't to welfare bro.

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On 1/31/2021 at 5:52 PM, El Borracho said:

The idea with corporate taxation was to tax retained earnings. The profits, by and large, were to be returned to the shareholders. (Imagine that!) If re-investment was needed the shareholders would buy newly issues shares. However the income tax code was very unfavorable for this so the experts suggested a workaround, as they always do. The tax code is always decades behind the clever accountants. Traditional corporate accounting is a rarity today with only paltry dividends. Replaced by stock buybacks because capital gains taxes are much lower than regular income tax on dividends. Plus the LLC is used where possible.

Lawmakers work just slow enough to give the accountants a trillion dollar advantage.

VAT anyone?

 

Law firms, Accounting firms, Consulting firms and pretty much any professional groups out side of non-profits are LLCs. All revenue is distributed to the partners (or "shareholders" if the founders choose not make these people equal partners) and there is no "profit" at the end of the year.

If Dog is really an architect, he's most likely part of an LLC, and most likely doing all he can to avoid paying his share or taxes.

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2 hours ago, rockb said:

Because it has to be taken from the people who earned it to give it to the welfare Xbox guy so he can buy his Cheetos and beer.  Why not let the people who earned it spend it on what they want.  If Xbox guy wants to buy Cheetos and beer he should get off his ass, work, and spend $$ he earned.  I work 9 hours a day at my day job and then 2-3 hours after that on a side gig so that I can get ahead so yea I have an opinion of F the lazy bastards.  If I can work 12 hours a day they can at least work 6.  

So it's fine to take it off the people who earned it by working and giving it to the shareholders who didn't?

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3 hours ago, rockb said:

Because it has to be taken from the people who earned it to give it to the welfare Xbox guy so he can buy his Cheetos and beer.  Why not let the people who earned it spend it on what they want.  If Xbox guy wants to buy Cheetos and beer he should get off his ass, work, and spend $$ he earned.  I work 9 hours a day at my day job and then 2-3 hours after that on a side gig so that I can get ahead so yea I have an opinion of F the lazy bastards.  If I can work 12 hours a day they can at least work 6.  

Wow, you are right up there with charge/discharge accounting as far as the way things work.  You are doing a heck of a lot of blaming there.  I hope you are not in a leadership position, because it sounds like you have Peter (Principaled) out.

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:
4 hours ago, rockb said:

Because it has to be taken from the people who earned it to give it to the welfare Xbox guy so he can buy his Cheetos and beer.  Why not let the people who earned it spend it on what they want.  If Xbox guy wants to buy Cheetos and beer he should get off his ass, work, and spend $$ he earned.  I work 9 hours a day at my day job and then 2-3 hours after that on a side gig so that I can get ahead so yea I have an opinion of F the lazy bastards.  If I can work 12 hours a day they can at least work 6.  

ahh, you think your taxes are somehow going to the lazy ass? You might want to check where your $s are REALLY going. It's WAY up the food chain, it ain't to welfare bro.

Morons like Rockhead can't comprehend how the fire department gets paid or how roads get paved.

They are incapable of thinking beyond "Keep your government hands off my Medicare"

The ignore button is there for a reason.

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