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11 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

Looks suspiciously like a Laser... errr ILCA.

I don't think scooter would pay duh super duper super  secret ILCA fees to be able to post an ILCA pic 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/12/2021 at 2:50 PM, Editor said:

controversial etchells from downunder

FIFY

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On 1/30/2021 at 2:21 AM, Grrr... said:

If I had to guess, the bottom of an Etchells.  Likely one of the mold 11 boats.....

4y23dv.jpg

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

4y23dv.jpg

Gold

almost as good as a Facebook post by a etchell worlds winner

”there is nothing wrong with them except that they are longer’

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NSW States Results

Mould 11:    1, 2 ,4 ,6 ,7, 17

Mould 10:    3,

Mould 9:     5, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 

Mould 8:     9, 10 ,

unknown:  20

Nothing to see here move on!

BTW, 5 of 6 races won by mould 11

Pos Sail No Boat Name Skipper Club R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 Pts
1 AUS1473 FUMANCHU2 Mark Roberts MRC 3 2 [12] 3 4 4 16
2 AUS1487 HAVOC Colin Beashel RSYS [9] 1 1 8 2 6 18
3 1484 LISAROSE Martin Hill RSYS 1 4 8 [10] 3 2 18
4 AUS1485 FIRST TRACKS Peter Merrington CYCA 4 7 2 1 [8] 5 19
5 AUS1026 FLIRTATION Matt Crawford RPAYC 2 [10] 5 7 6 8 28
6 AUS1483 GREAT WHITE HUNTER David Dunn RSYS [14] 6 9 2 9 3 29
7 AUS1478 TRIAD2020 John Bertrand RBYC 12 5 14 [15] 1 1 33
8 AUS1219 CARABELLA Matthew McCann RSYS 7 [20] 4 6 5 12 34
9 AUS1392 THELASTONE Steve Billingham RSYS [15] 3 3 9 11 9 35
10 AUS1213 2107 RACING David Taylor RPAYC 5 8 6 13 [20] 14 46
11 AUS947 PIE Mark Bradford RSYS 11 12 7 5 [16] 16 51
12 831 VIKEN Mark Tolhurst RSYS 13 [16] 10 11 10 11 55
13 AUS1463 AUS1463 Matthew Ramaley RSYS 10 [14] 13 12 14 10 59
14 AUS1134 DOT Jamie Macphail GSC [19] 9 15 4 18 19 65
15 AUS853 IRIS III Peter McNeill LMYC 16 11 16 16 7 [18] 66
16 AUS1187 ADAM MAGPIE Emma Harrison CYCA 6 19 11 18 [21] 17 71
17 AUS1447 AVALON Michael Bellingham RSYS [23] 15 21 20 13 7 76
18 1325 FINESSE Andrew Kearnan CYCA 17 17 [19] 17 15 13 79
19 AUS1314 KALIKA 3 Alistair Read RPAYC 8 18 18 19 17 [21] 80
20 NGR1450 AFRICAN QUEEN Jan Muysken LYC 21 13 [23] 14 22 15 85
21 AUS1088 SUN TZU George Johnstone GSC 20 [21] 20 21 12 20 93
22 AUS1291 THE DON Donald Wilson GSC 18 [22] 17 22 19 22 98
23 AUS1286 FROTH Geoff Dilworth GSC 22 23 22 24 [25F] 23 114
24 AUS511 GRAND V DArcy Kemp RPAYC [24] 24 24 23 23 24 118
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Relevant mould 11 boats are after about 1447 and since mid 2018

So not now it would seem.

Even the head of north sails sailing perhaps the most successful boat in history (947) is not in the top 10.

Nothing to see here move on!

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4 hours ago, Rushman said:

Year of build/Mould type would give more information to ponder

Is a 5 or 10 year old boat still competitive?

Exactly.

 Who would have thought the top guys would be sailing the newest boats?

Labia has a very big chip on his shoulder. Understandable really , when one is only 4’11” or there abouts.

 

 

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So when the Rules, on everyones admission, have not been followed and you call bullshit, you suddenly have a chip on your shoulder.

No wonder the sport is fucked and the sport is full of fuckwits who say that it is all good.

Buy yourself a mirror.

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Dear "Angry Ant" aka Labia.

Have you read this?

http://www1.headwaycloud.com/clients/81/uploaded_files/report_to_the_igc__2_aussie_etchells_IHZRzR.pdf

Noting......". I am pleased to report that after an enormous effort by a group of very dedicated and very well intentioned individuals our Chief Measurer has given the new boat his full approval."

Have you considered that only a shortarsed fuckwit would want to destroy the  class over  a technicality.

Maybe the class will flick mould 11 boats , with you chearing them on. Then not only will we know our sport is fucked, but how clowns ike you fucked it ,with your continual whining.

 

 

 

 

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Old document from about 2012 which does not address the current issues.

In any event this statement does not reflect the Class Rules

"The Class has hull templates which are applied to the finished hull. If the hull fits these templates, and all measurements are within the Class tolerances and specifications, the hull is an Etchells."

Indeed this issue is at the centre of the current controversy, as the renders from Zonker in the other thread show.

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10 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Dear "Angry Ant" aka Labia.

Have you read this?

http://www1.headwaycloud.com/clients/81/uploaded_files/report_to_the_igc__2_aussie_etchells_IHZRzR.pdf

Noting......". I am pleased to report that after an enormous effort by a group of very dedicated and very well intentioned individuals our Chief Measurer has given the new boat his full approval."

Have you considered that only a shortarsed fuckwit would want to destroy the  class over  a technicality.

Maybe the class will flick mould 11 boats , with you chearing them on. Then not only will we know our sport is fucked, but how clowns ike you fucked it ,with your continual whining.

 

 

 

 

Starboard!

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4 hours ago, Livia said:

Old document from about 2012 which does not address the current issues.

In any event this statement does not reflect the Class Rules

"The Class has hull templates which are applied to the finished hull. If the hull fits these templates, and all measurements are within the Class tolerances and specifications, the hull is an Etchells."

Indeed this issue is at the centre of the current controversy, as the renders from Zonker in the other thread show.

Eventually you have to ask the question...How perdantic do you want to be?

Nothing to stop the builder wedging up the mould in the middle and draging the ends down before laminating commences, narrowing beam and flattening rocker.

The framers of the rule understood the issues associated with moulding polyester  boats and produced templates and tolerances for a very good reason.

Anyone who thinks moulded boats hulls are all the same has never tried fitting one back in a mould after demoulding.

From the article......" This depends in some way on how the mould is supported. If it just sat on the floor, with no stress anywhere, you might get a beam of, say, 2105 (min). But if it is supported at each end, (sprung), you would get a larger beam (up to 2122) In this larger beam, with the mould sprung, which side of the mould would spring the most, Port or stb? Does the length vary? Yes. From each mould, (from the same plug #2) and each builder. From 9302 to 9289. Were the boats for the original scanning, an average median and a true representative of the boats from the different builders? The Class has hull templates which are applied to the finished hull. If the hull fits these templates, and all measurements are within the Class tolerances and specifications, the hull is an Etchells. Each and every Etchells built is different from the previous boat built from the same mould in some small way. No Etchells is identical to any other, even from the same mould and builder."

 

 

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Still not getting it.

"Eventually you have to ask the question...How perdantic do you want to be?

Nothing to stop the builder wedging up the mould in the middle and draging the ends down before laminating commences, narrowing beam and flattening rocker.

The framers of the rule understood the issues associated with moulding polyester  boats and produced templates and tolerances for a very good reason."

Read the Rules!

It is not an issue of simply meeting two measurement stations in front of the mast.

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18 minutes ago, Livia said:

Still not getting it.

 

 

Jeeeesus Labia, we all get it.

Only spiteful sawnoff little person like yourself,  would fuck up a sailing class over a  missing tick on  piece of paper from 10 years ago.

Never heard of "commonsense"?

No wonder  sailing is dying.

PS

Was a  case for a  wilfull attempt to cheat actually made or is this just a secretarial failure?

 

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Seems a sailing class association in just one jurisdiction that is having the problem with their own rules.

Rest of the world seems to understand the class rules quite well and got ticks on the paper.

Thats right we call those things Rules.

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You might want to read what the Australian class President has just said.

a smart person would see the problem.

Mr Heywoods position might need revisiting.

Of course the mould 11 boats will be approved as everyone who has a say bar about two people seem to have one.

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On 2/22/2021 at 6:12 PM, TwoLegged said:

And 5 out of the first 7 overall places won by Mould 11.

Yes, absolutely nothing at all to see here. ;) 

If mold 11 are newer boats, and better programs are going to buy newer boats more often, it would seem there's a lot of confounding data and that prevents you from drawing a conclusion.

On 2/22/2021 at 5:04 PM, Livia said:

NSW States Results

Mould 11:    1, 2 ,4 ,6 ,7, 17

Mould 10:    3,

Mould 9:     5, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 

Mould 8:     9, 10 ,

unknown:  20

Nothing to see here move on!

BTW, 5 of 6 races won by mould 11

Pos Sail No Boat Name Skipper Club R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 Pts
1 AUS1473 FUMANCHU2 Mark Roberts MRC 3 2 [12] 3 4 4 16
2 AUS1487 HAVOC Colin Beashel RSYS [9] 1 1 8 2 6 18
3 1484 LISAROSE Martin Hill RSYS 1 4 8 [10] 3 2 18
4 AUS1485 FIRST TRACKS Peter Merrington CYCA 4 7 2 1 [8] 5 19
5 AUS1026 FLIRTATION Matt Crawford RPAYC 2 [10] 5 7 6 8 28
6 AUS1483 GREAT WHITE HUNTER David Dunn RSYS [14] 6 9 2 9 3 29
7 AUS1478 TRIAD2020 John Bertrand RBYC 12 5 14 [15] 1 1 33
8 AUS1219 CARABELLA Matthew McCann RSYS 7 [20] 4 6 5 12 34
9 AUS1392 THELASTONE Steve Billingham RSYS [15] 3 3 9 11 9 35
10 AUS1213 2107 RACING David Taylor RPAYC 5 8 6 13 [20] 14 46
11 AUS947 PIE Mark Bradford RSYS 11 12 7 5 [16] 16 51
12 831 VIKEN Mark Tolhurst RSYS 13 [16] 10 11 10 11 55
13 AUS1463 AUS1463 Matthew Ramaley RSYS 10 [14] 13 12 14 10 59
14 AUS1134 DOT Jamie Macphail GSC [19] 9 15 4 18 19 65
15 AUS853 IRIS III Peter McNeill LMYC 16 11 16 16 7 [18] 66
16 AUS1187 ADAM MAGPIE Emma Harrison CYCA 6 19 11 18 [21] 17 71
17 AUS1447 AVALON Michael Bellingham RSYS [23] 15 21 20 13 7 76
18 1325 FINESSE Andrew Kearnan CYCA 17 17 [19] 17 15 13 79
19 AUS1314 KALIKA 3 Alistair Read RPAYC 8 18 18 19 17 [21] 80
20 NGR1450 AFRICAN QUEEN Jan Muysken LYC 21 13 [23] 14 22 15 85
21 AUS1088 SUN TZU George Johnstone GSC 20 [21] 20 21 12 20 93
22 AUS1291 THE DON Donald Wilson GSC 18 [22] 17 22 19 22 98
23 AUS1286 FROTH Geoff Dilworth GSC 22 23 22 24 [25F] 23 114
24 AUS511 GRAND V DArcy Kemp RPAYC [24] 24 24 23 23 24 118



That's a fairly silly conclusion based on insufficient data.  If you compare the results based on skippers, you'll find that the better skippers buy new boats more regularly, and were successful both before AND after the introduction of the new molds.  If I had a couple hours, I could crunch the actual data and do a regression to determine which had more impact - the skipper or the boat number and check the p numbers.

This is how the 'legends' start and Tribal Knowledge is generated.

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4 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

If mold 11 are newer boats, and better programs are going to buy newer boats more often, it would seem there's a lot of confounding data and that prevents you from drawing a conclusion.

That's a fairly silly conclusion based on insufficient data.  If you compare the results based on skippers, you'll find that the better skippers buy new boats more regularly, and were successful both before AND after the introduction of the new molds.  If I had a couple hours, I could crunch the actual data and do a regression to determine which had more impact - the skipper or the boat number and check the p numbers.

This is how the 'legends' start and Tribal Knowledge is generated.

+1

There may be a problem, there may not be a problem. This data set doesn't really tell us anything about the performance of the boat hull shape, because it does not control for age of boat, quality of team etc.

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