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Republicans have hit rock bottom


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You don't know who you are or what you stand for, you have nothing to point to as a philosophy or platform.  Your standard bearers are Ted Cruz,  Hawley, Jordan, Boebert, Cawthorn, et al.  And of course Trump.  Even scumbags like Graham and McConnell have no idea what to do with you.  McCarthy has no idea who to suck off.  It must suck to wake up everyday wondering how to jerk off a trailer park and also keep your membership in a golf club without letting everyone know.  Fucking freaks.

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18 minutes ago, saxdog said:

Maybe a few of the remaining moderrates will become independents .

Any remaining moderates who don't become independents, well, are they, were they really moderates? In principle, a dangerous word to use btw, there shouldn't be that much of a difference between a moderate Republican and a centrist Democrat. In practice, there is an unbridgeable fissure. Republicans moderates + socons overwhelmingly voted for Shitstain. There's nothing moderate about that. There's codependence but it's not with centrists.

I for one got damned tired of the moderate Hamlet act. At this point, just fuck 'em. Tis not to be.

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32 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

They can go much lower. They are putting on a show. They have no principles, let alone conservative principles. It is just a reality show. 

what are these vaunted conservative principals that are always being alluded to? dollar worship-lite, money is god with just enough concessions to 'sanity' to  maintain certain pretenses?

sounds like a great theme for an 'Old Boy's' club.

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The moderates don't get to let these people appropriate the Republican name.  These people need to be marginalized into their own party so they can be singled out.  If the US is to have reasonable people on the right, no one has a problem with that.  It's taxes and math and where the money goes which we disagree about.  That's fine.  These people are fucking crazy..

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10 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

what are these vaunted conservative principals that are always being alluded to? dollar worship-lite, money is god with just enough concessions to 'sanity' to  maintain certain pretenses?

sounds like a great theme for an 'Old Boy's' club.

An old boy club that is desperately superior to brown people, is terrified of women and clings to the trappings of privilege, while kept in power by the poorly educated and religiously manacled.

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'I'm a 'conservative''. 

you mean you're more or less shit-lite? congrats.

imo, of course.

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You fools keep believing the Republicans have hit bottom. 
and every time you believe it they find new un-imagined  depths 

Admit it!! You are incapable of lowering your standards rapidly enough to keep up with the performance of the Lying Loser snd the Reoubliczn kakistocracy

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2 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

You fools keep believing the Republicans have hit bottom. 
and every time you believe it they find new un-imagined  depths 

Admit it!! You are incapable of lowering your standards rapidly enough to keep up with the performance of the Lying Loser snd the Reoubliczn kakistocracy

Who are you speaking to? (To whom are you speaking?) I have predicted doom and unmitigated failure on the whole enterprise from long ago. There was no possibility of a good outcome. 

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1 hour ago, 3to1 said:

what are these vaunted conservative principals that are always being alluded to? dollar worship-lite, money is god with just enough concessions to 'sanity' to  maintain certain pretenses?

sounds like a great theme for an 'Old Boy's' club.

Guns, God (but only the Christian one) and Freedom!  It is fun to watch the newsfeed on Gab as the deplorables try to co-opt the individual investors who stuck it to Wall St. in the last week.  Over there, it is all "us" vs. "them", but who are they?  Little do they know that Wall St. funds the campaigns of their favorite politicians.  They are talking about making their own Christian stock market now.  YCMTSU.

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Re: the thread title;

No they haven't.

There is no bottom for them. Haven't you been paying attention for the past few years?

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

This was the one I was actually looking for but who cares?

 

I care.

Compared to the original, Blues Brothers 2000 sucked ass.

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In no way shape or form can they claim to be a right wing political party.

Their supporters aren't right wing anymore. The GoP has become a white supremacist, conspiracy theorizing, fear mongering pack of cunts. 

America, the new Zimbabwe, only the color is flipped.

 

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MTG is the face of the party. She has the inside track fir the 2024 nomination to run  against Kamala and Pete

 

you heard it here first. YCMTSU

Green Gaetz  promising to keep Mexicans out... vs the black woman and the gay guy. 

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48 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

MTG is the face of the party. She has the inside track fir the 2024 nomination to run  against Kamala and Pete

 

you heard it here first. YCMTSU

Green Gaetz  promising to keep Mexicans out... vs the black woman and the gay guy. 

You think there is actually going to be a ratified election in 4 years?  The R's have discovered that elections don't always work in their favour.  If they can't rig it, they will reject the results and then, if they own the Senate, find a way to install their own candidate, while claiming to be Patriots and God-fearing.  

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1 hour ago, benwynn said:

 

I care.

Compared to the original, Blues Brothers 2000 sucked ass.

Look, the original Blues Brothers is possibly the greatest movie ever made.  If someone disagrees they can eat a bag of dicks.  Carry on.

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3 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Guns, God (but only the Christian one) and Freedom!  It is fun to watch the newsfeed on Gab as the deplorables try to co-opt the individual investors who stuck it to Wall St. in the last week.  Over there, it is all "us" vs. "them", but who are they?  Little do they know that Wall St. funds the campaigns of their favorite politicians.  They are talking about making their own Christian stock market now.  YCMTSU.

Hillary's description of the Deplorables:

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.

She was absolutely right. But well before that, Obama had said Guns, God and Gays:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

However neither mentioned the right wing media which has propagandized the elk beyond repair. Shitstain has no talent beyond an understanding of that media. They didn't mention the elk's sense of entitlement either.

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The Right-wing in America has always been the same.  Only now they have come out, we can see them for the racist greedy, evil Me ME cunts that they are.

It just took social media to give them a voice.

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4 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Hillary's description of the Deplorables:

You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.

She was absolutely right. But well before that, Obama had said Guns, God and Gays:

You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

However neither mentioned the right wing media which has propagandized the elk beyond repair. Shitstain has no talent beyond an understanding of that media. They didn't mention the elk's sense of entitlement either.

You completely miss what was objectionable about her comment. You wrongly focus on the truth and accuracy of her observation, when the problem is that Hillary said it. And she used email.

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5 hours ago, roundthebuoys said:

Look, the original Blues Brothers is possibly the greatest movie ever made.  If someone disagrees they can eat a bag of dicks.  Carry on.

Not entirely... 'Monty Python And The Holy Grail' is also the greatest movie ever made. For those who disagree with either choice, eating a bag of dicks is optional but strongly recommended

- DSK

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When the R party essentially becomes Qanon- there will be no bottom.

When you toss reality over your shoulder a world of endless possibilities suddenly emerges, it’s a comfortable place if you’re threatened by brown people fast becoming the majority, a guvmint coming for your guns.

But what makes them gather together in unison, in defence is DemocRATS find baby’s delicious.

The bottom is still a long way however you will no longer have an R party as you know it before then.

When you think of just how throughly the R’s are screwing this up, it actually reads like a Monty Python skit.

SAD

 

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7 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

In no way shape or form can they claim to be a right wing political party.

Their supporters aren't right wing anymore. The GoP has become a white supremacist, conspiracy theorizing, fear mongering pack of cunts. 

America, the new Zimbabwe, only the color is flipped.

 

BB6B3CC0-2FE3-4DE4-9059-993C25F2A94C.png

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11 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Any remaining moderates who don't become independents, well, are they, were they really moderates? In principle, a dangerous word to use btw, there shouldn't be that much of a difference between a moderate Republican and a centrist Democrat. In practice, there is an unbridgeable fissure. Republicans moderates + socons overwhelmingly voted for Shitstain. There's nothing moderate about that. There's codependence but it's not with centrists.

I for one got damned tired of the moderate Hamlet act. At this point, just fuck 'em. Tis not to be.

 I agree generally and on a gut level for sure. Reality is that passing legislation is more durable than executive orders.

 Maybe, just maybe, Collins, Murkowski, Romney, and even Liz Cheney have had enough to become independents.

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31 minutes ago, saxdog said:

 I agree generally and on a gut level for sure. Reality is that passing legislation is more durable than executive orders.

 Maybe, just maybe, Collins, Murkowski, Romney, and even Liz Cheney have had enough to become independents.

I think they should fight like hell to kick the bullshitters out. Let them go form the Patriot party, now that their TEA party name has been exposed as bullshit. So the rebranding we all know is coming can be the Patriot party and actual conservatives can keep the GOP and offer alternative choices based on shared reality. They have to push as hard against bullshitters as the bullshitters push against reality. 

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2 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I think they should fight like hell to kick the bullshitters out. Let them go form the Patriot party, now that their TEA party name has been exposed as bullshit. So the rebranding we all know is coming can be the Patriot party and actual conservatives can keep the GOP and offer alternative choices based on shared reality. They have to push as hard against bullshitters as the bullshitters push against reality. 

This is nonsense. There are only bullshitters in the Republican. The 'moderate' RINOs are the minority. They can kick no one out and indeed Liz Cheney is getting kicked out; Ducey, Flake and Cindy McCain were censured by the AZ GOP. If these 'moderates' stay then they are themselves bullshitters. Fight like hell for what?

This isn't communist Russia. They have a choice. They are making their choice.

And on the other side of the aisle, Joe Biden and the Traitorcrats are trying to do un-American things like vaccinate an unwilling nation, establish a $15 minimum wage, repair our international reputation and our national infrastructure. Yet these people stay.

What is this conservatism they are staying for? I think it's the distilled essence of bullshit. Aged, serious, you know, the good stuff.

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I recoil in horror every time I hear or read about the 'republican leadership' (McConnell, Cruz, et al).  They are not leaders.  They are busy trying to figure out which way the herd is going and tag along hoping to stay in their favour so they can be re-elected. 

A leader would take a principled position and try to bring everyone around (and do so much more).   

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1 hour ago, saxdog said:

 I agree generally and on a gut level for sure. Reality is that passing legislation is more durable than executive orders.

 Maybe, just maybe, Collins, Murkowski, Romney, and even Liz Cheney have had enough to become independents.

Murkowski has said she isn't willing to leap overboard yet. Collins is pretending it's business as usual. Romney still thinks he has a chance, Cheney will never leave the GOP.

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7 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

This is nonsense. There are only bullshitters in the Republican. The 'moderate' RINOs are the minority. They can kick no one out and indeed Liz Cheney is getting kicked out; Ducey, Flake and Cindy McCain were censured by the AZ GOP. If these 'moderates' stay then they are themselves bullshitters. Fight like hell for what?

This isn't communist Russia. They have a choice. They are making their choice.

And on the other side of the aisle, Joe Biden and the Traitorcrats are trying to do un-American things like vaccinate an unwilling nation, establish a $15 minimum wage, repair our international reputation and our national infrastructure. Yet these people stay.

What is this conservatism they are staying for? I think it's the distilled essence of bullshit. Aged, serious, you know, the good stuff.

Who’s getting the big money from the Best Americans? That’s who gets to decide the future of The Party. 

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38 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Who’s getting the big money from the Best Americans? That’s who gets to decide the future of The Party. 

Yeah, I used to believe that. But it turns out that Democrats are as good or even better than Republicans are for the Best Americans. Section 1202 of the IRS Code comes to mind. Thanks, President Obama. I really appreciate it.

It wasn't about the money. It was never about the money and it sure as mother fucking hell isn't about the money now. It's about entitlement. Conservatism is about entitlement or if you pray to Republican Jesus hard enough, the promise of entitlement.

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2 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Yeah, I used to believe that. But it turns out that Democrats are as good or even better than Republicans are for the Best Americans. Section 1202 of the IRS Code comes to mind. Thanks, President Obama. I really appreciate it.

It wasn't about the money. It was never about the money and it sure as mother fucking hell isn't about the money now. It's about entitlement. Conservatism is about entitlement or if you pray to Republican Jesus hard enough, the promise of entitlement.

Replace “Conservativism” with Republicanism and I’m with you. 

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12 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Replace “Conservativism” with Republicanism and I’m with you. 

Replace Conservatism with conservatism and I'm with you. BTW, on re-reading, you were talking about the donors and I am talking about the elk. My bad. But when you distill it down to its essence, I really don't see any difference between the donor class, their elected and the elk. Membership has its privileges, and Johnny One Tooth wants that membership.

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not entirely... 'Monty Python And The Holy Grail' is also the greatest movie ever made. For those who disagree with either choice, eating a bag of dicks is optional but strongly recommended

- DSK

I mean, if John Cleese drove an old police car through a shopping mall I might agree.  But sorry, this isn't really up for debate.

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10 hours ago, roundthebuoys said:

Look, the original Blues Brothers is possibly the greatest movie ever made.  If someone disagrees they can eat a bag of dicks.  Carry on.

I call that big talk for a one eyed fat man.

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

Replace Conservatism with conservatism and I'm with you. BTW, on re-reading, you were talking about the donors and I am talking about the elk. My bad. But when you distill it down to its essence, I really don't see any difference between the donor class, their elected and the elk. Membership has its privileges, and Johnny One Tooth wants that membership.

Seeing it play out will be interesting but these guys in The Party want to run for President and Johnny One Tooth ain’t footing that bill. I expect rhetoric to sooth Johnny’s grievance but policy to give more to those who already have it all, as it has been for the last few years. The GOP is about doing what the billionaires want to give them the money to which they are entitled...and doing the LBJ quote for Johnny. 

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7 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Seeing it play out will be interesting but these guys in The Party want to run for President and Johnny One Tooth ain’t footing that bill. I expect rhetoric to sooth Johnny’s grievance but policy to give more to those who already have it all, as it has been for the last few years. The GOP is about doing what the billionaires want to give them the money to which they are entitled...and doing the LBJ quote for Johnny. 

The current primacy of the primaries has transformed the Party. Used to be they were merely party polls and could be ignored. Ike never even bothered to participate in them. The old-school intellectual conservatives, who have always been a minority, are all but overwhelmed. I'd put that old quote of Goldwater up again, about what would happen if the religious fanatics were to take over the party but I've posted that enough. 

   I suspect allowing the Gaetz guy and the crazy lady who believes forest fires are the result of Jewish lasers from space be their face will begin to take it's toll. Wish I could say I was confident about it. 

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2 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

The best part is her entire schtick is based on the 2nd.

Screen Shot 2021-02-19 at 10.27.02 PM.png

I agree.  But In all fairness, if the dems actually attempted the amend the Constitution rather than continually attempt end runs around it and continue to chip away at it through executive order, court challenges and legislation that is clearly not in keeping with the current constitution - then I would be more in support of the above meme.  But we all know that is not the case.  

Propose an Amendment to change X, Y and Zed and we can have an adult conversation.  But don't whine that it's "too hard", so therefore those other measures are justified.  Start winning enough state gov'ts and US House and Senate seats to get an Amendment passed and then you can use that meme.

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4 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

R’s have adopted the reality TV credo “How low can you go” and turned it into a race.

Well, they've been catering to the "so dumb they're proud of it" market, and forgotten what smart is. So now they're cornering the "so crazy that talking about Lizard People secretly in charge of the gov't doesn't sound crazy" vote.

It's amazing to me that they can figure out how to put on shoes, but wait until the weather warms up a bit. They'll forget.

- DSK

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28th amendment- Anyone impeached by Congress while holding office, may be tried in the Senate after leaving office and if convicted, disqualified to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States 

29th amendment- The President and Vice President shall be elected by the popular vote of all qualified US citizens for a four year term, not to exceed two terms.  Abolishes the electoral college.

30th amendment- A well regulated medical system, being necessary to the security of personal liberty, the right of the people to make any personal medical decisions for themselves or their charges, shall not be infringed.

Make it so...

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‘Most attendees want him dead’: Pence’s decision to skip CPAC backed by his supporters

Mike Pence’s decision to decline an invitation to the upcoming Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) has been backed by Twitter users who commented that “most attendees want him dead”.

Dozens tweeted in support of the former vice president on Sunday following the announcement that he would not deliver an address to conservative leaders at the annual conference, having done so on previous occasions.

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3 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

‘Most attendees want him dead’: Pence’s decision to skip CPAC backed by his supporters

Mike Pence’s decision to decline an invitation to the upcoming Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) has been backed by Twitter users who commented that “most attendees want him dead”.

Dozens tweeted in support of the former vice president on Sunday following the announcement that he would not deliver an address to conservative leaders at the annual conference, having done so on previous occasions.

Trying to separate himself from Trump and the crazies?

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3 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:
7 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

‘Most attendees want him dead’: Pence’s decision to skip CPAC backed by his supporters

Mike Pence’s decision to decline an invitation to the upcoming Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) has been backed by Twitter users who commented that “most attendees want him dead”.

Dozens tweeted in support of the former vice president on Sunday following the announcement that he would not deliver an address to conservative leaders at the annual conference, having done so on previous occasions.

Trying to separate himself from Trump and the crazies?

To say nothing of the desire of Republicans to separate him from the living.

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On 1/30/2021 at 11:40 AM, Bugsy said:

I recoil in horror every time I hear or read about the 'republican leadership' (McConnell, Cruz, et al).  They are not leaders.  They are busy trying to figure out which way the herd is going and tag along hoping to stay in their favour so they can be re-elected. 

A leader would take a principled position and try to bring everyone around (and do so much more).   

 

 

You're describing Biden and Harris!!

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On 2/19/2021 at 10:29 PM, bhyde said:

There is no bottom. It's turtles all the way down.

2020-04-21T221122Z_689968682_RC2A9G994EP

always slightly surprised hits aren't put out more often on fkg shitcunts like this one here.

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If you think the GOP has hit rock bottom..... you ain't seen nuthin' yet.  Never, ever underestimate the power of the stupid and the power hungry.  They make a volatile mix.

 

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38 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

If you think the GOP has hit rock bottom..... you ain't seen nuthin' yet.  Never, ever underestimate the power of the stupid and the power hungry.  They make a volatile mix.

 

Witness one of the invited speakers.  Of course, once it became publicly known he was invited, they reversed course. 

But, they KNEW his vitriol before they invited him. I guaran-fucking-tee it.  They have committees to do this.

To believe otherwise is to say the organizers are completely clueless - either way, not a good look.

Featured CPAC speaker said Judaism is a “complete lie” and referred to Jewish people as “thieving fake Jews”

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South Dakota AG pushed by critics to resign over new evidence in fatal car incident: ‘He knew what he hit and he lied’

Said the detective on video: “They’re Joe’s glasses, so that means his face came through your windshield.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/02/24/south-dakota-ravnsborg-resign-death/

The quality of the lies needs marked improvement.

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On 1/29/2021 at 9:52 PM, Gouvernail said:

You fools keep believing the Republicans have hit bottom. 
and every time you believe it they find new un-imagined  depths 

Admit it!! You are incapable of lowering your standards rapidly enough to keep up with the performance of the Lying Loser snd the Reoubliczn kakistocracy

The issue here -- and one that my fellow lefties seem remarkably incapable of absorbing -- is that the Republican party essentially hit that rock bottom with G.W. Bush. True Conservativism has been essentially dead since then. And yet, they still have a sufficient number of Americans to bring in an equal number of Republican terms to Democratic terms since then. That's not at all the indication of a dead party.

The emotions and ideals that keep putting Republicans in office are strong and undeniable, and rather than address that a massive chunk of the American public and use that to build progressive liberalism and social justice, the Democratics continue to squander these victories in the same kind of partisan squabbling in which the Republicans excel. Rather than find a way to communicate with the "Nascar America" they simply shit all over them. Rather than build shared visions of fair salaries, fair housing, good education with our Republican countrymen, we just insult them. 

George Orwell warned us about exactly this about a hundred years ago in Wigan Pier, and still, we're incapable of learning from history. The goal should never be Democratic victories, but rather social justice, support of families, of education, or working class success, of comfort and happiness for people who don't have a pot to piss in, regardless of their political ideals. Of course these people are threatened by immigrants, they're barely able to keep their chins above water. Of course they people are threatened by progressive education and energy, they barely have the time to learn what's involved as they struggle to keep their families together on shit minimum wage and nonexistent healthcare. Rather than bring these people into the fold of progressive capitalism, we insult them and call them stupid. This is in no way a winning strategy, it's petty and stupid, and just playing the Republican game to failure. It works for them because they prey on ignorance, it can't work for us because progressivism can only succeed with enlightenment.

So now we won ... we have the Presidency, we have the Senate, we have the House. Now what? Do we continue to bomb brown people in deserts? It seems so. Do we continue to divert critical infrastructure funds to defense? It seems so. Do we continue to build up debt? Imprison immigrants? Enslave Americans who have drug addictions? Treat Puerto Ricans as subhumans?

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

The issue here -- and one that my fellow lefties seem remarkably incapable of absorbing -- is that the Republican party essentially hit that rock bottom with G.W. Bush.

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"The emotions and ideals that keep putting Republicans in office are strong and undeniable, and rather than address that a massive chunk of the American public and use that to build progressive liberalism and social justice, the Democratics continue to squander these victories in the same kind of partisan squabbling in which the Republicans excel. Rather than find a way to communicate with the "Nascar America" they simply shit all over them. Rather than build shared visions of fair salaries, fair housing, good education with our Republican countrymen, we just insult them. "

Easy to say but what is not addressed is the impact of trying to "address" these voters.  The latest voting data is that only 4% of the electorate split a ticket, only 16 counties recorded split ticket voting so to "address" the concerns of those blue collar Trump voters Dem's would have to agree to issues such as banning abortions, promoting bible courses in schools, banning same sex marriage, encouraging guns in schools....  How many D voters would leave if just one of these issues were placed on table? How many R voters would change to D if just one issue was before them?  After decades of demonization of D's as a political strategy, I don't see any evidence that this "massive chunk" of voters would flip a D lever for any reason.  Taking a big step to the right means leaving those on the left.  The R's are the ones that lost big, let them take the larger risk.

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1 hour ago, learningJ24 said:

"The emotions and ideals that keep putting Republicans in office are strong and undeniable, and rather than address that a massive chunk of the American public and use that to build progressive liberalism and social justice, the Democratics continue to squander these victories in the same kind of partisan squabbling in which the Republicans excel. Rather than find a way to communicate with the "Nascar America" they simply shit all over them. Rather than build shared visions of fair salaries, fair housing, good education with our Republican countrymen, we just insult them. "

Easy to say but what is not addressed is the impact of trying to "address" these voters.  The latest voting data is that only 4% of the electorate split a ticket, only 16 counties recorded split ticket voting so to "address" the concerns of those blue collar Trump voters Dem's would have to agree to issues such as banning abortions, promoting bible courses in schools, banning same sex marriage, encouraging guns in schools....  How many D voters would leave if just one of these issues were placed on table? How many R voters would change to D if just one issue was before them?  After decades of demonization of D's as a political strategy, I don't see any evidence that this "massive chunk" of voters would flip a D lever for any reason.  Taking a big step to the right means leaving those on the left.  The R's are the ones that lost big, let them take the larger risk.

The problem is that the massive right-wing noise machine has shouted down all reasonable discussion, and that includes the narrative that Democrats "shit all over" the average working person.

Republicans: Deregulate business, and the business will be more profitable and pay workers more.....

actual result- lower benefits to workers, increased pollution, and money flowing to the 1%ers then out of the US economy

Democrats: Build a legal framework where business must treat workers fairly, reduce/eliminate pollution, build framework for education for all

actual result- well, it gets knocked all to shit before being given a chance, but in the post WW2 generation when the USA made it's greatest gains for the greatest # of citizens, that is what both parties were working toward. Partisan divide more on details than basic principles

Republicans: "Democrats want to raise your taxes to give lazy minorities more welfare! Soft on terrorism! They'll take away your GUNZ!!!!!"

Democrats: hard to see much point in continuing this conversation

- DSK

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And somehow the Republicans expect to get back into power by refusing to support a relief package that 70% of the population wants. I can only assume that they have other plans to win elections...like cheating.

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Democrats and Republicans tangled over the size and scope of Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion Covid-19 relief plan Wednesday, despite the broad public support for the package and a new push by business leaders to get it passed -- a sign of the difficulties facing the new President, who had hoped to be a bridge beyond Washington's partisan gridlock.

But with the bill headed to the House floor for a vote as early as Friday, Republicans face significant political risk by forming a unified front of opposition to the legislation, especially given that nearly 7 in 10 Americans supported the bill in a Quinnipiac University poll released earlier this month.
After losing control of the White House and the US Senate in November, and still relegated to the minority in the US House, Republican leaders hope to win back suburban voters in 2022, in part by earning their trust that they would do a better job than Democrats easing the transition back to normal life after the Covid-19 pandemic. One area the GOP has been heavily focused on is getting kids back into school, for example, because they see it as a winning issue at the ballot box in 2022. Yet their opposition to Biden's legislation could complicate those efforts, since many members will likely end up on the record voting against a Covid relief bill that would provide money for exactly that purpose.
Republicans are attempting to sharpen their arguments against legislation that is intended to help speed up the delivery of vaccines; send direct payments of up to $1,400 to Americans making up to $75,000 annually; extend key pandemic unemployment programs; provide aid to struggling small business owners; and dedicate nearly $130 billion for K-12 schools to make safety improvements aimed at allowing them to reopen (or stay open).
 
 
The thorniest issue within the bill is the proposed increase of the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, which Republicans argue would cripple small businesses. The minimum wage proposal is also dividing Democratic senators, with both Sens. Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona expressing concerns about what the effect of the proposal would be. Democrats have thin margins in both chambers, relying on Vice President Kamala Harris to break ties in the evenly divided Senate, so they cannot afford to lose any Democratic support for the relief package.
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy described the legislation Wednesday as too expensive and riddled with projects that amount to gifts to Democrats' liberal constituencies. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has amplified that argument by alleging that the Democrats' bill contains "hundreds of millions of dollars for pet projects without a shred of relevance to the pandemic or the recovery."
"I think all Americans agree (with) exactly what Republicans wanted to have happen," McCarthy said during a GOP news conference Wednesday, where he noted that he hadn't spoken to any GOP House members who support the bill. "We want to go back to work, back to school, back to health. Unfortunately this bill is too costly, too corrupt, and too liberal."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/politics/biden-covid-relief-republican-opposition/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+(RSS%3A+CNN+-+Top+Stories)

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32 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

The problem is that the massive right-wing noise machine has shouted down all reasonable discussion, and that includes the narrative that Democrats "shit all over" the average working person.

Republicans: Deregulate business, and the business will be more profitable and pay workers more.....

actual result- lower benefits to workers, increased pollution, and money flowing to the 1%ers then out of the US economy

Democrats: Build a legal framework where business must treat workers fairly, reduce/eliminate pollution, build framework for education for all

actual result- well, it gets knocked all to shit before being given a chance, but in the post WW2 generation when the USA made it's greatest gains for the greatest # of citizens, that is what both parties were working toward. Partisan divide more on details than basic principles

Republicans: "Democrats want to raise your taxes to give lazy minorities more welfare! Soft on terrorism! They'll take away your GUNZ!!!!!"

Democrats: hard to see much point in continuing this conversation

- DSK

Agreed, what I'm seeing here in Red state world is that old Reagan and HW Republicans have moved into the Democratic party and are promoting the same old conservative rhetoric.  One of our local party faithful has been promoting "We have to stop worrying about minority issues and focus on majority issues", ignoring the obvious that Republicans own majority issues. All this "Move to the Middle" noise is premised upon the unsubstantiated idea that there is a large "Moderate Middle" when the evidence is that there is not.

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2 hours ago, learningJ24 said:

"The emotions and ideals that keep putting Republicans in office are strong and undeniable, and rather than address that a massive chunk of the American public and use that to build progressive liberalism and social justice, the Democratics continue to squander these victories in the same kind of partisan squabbling in which the Republicans excel. Rather than find a way to communicate with the "Nascar America" they simply shit all over them. Rather than build shared visions of fair salaries, fair housing, good education with our Republican countrymen, we just insult them. "

Easy to say but what is not addressed is the impact of trying to "address" these voters.  The latest voting data is that only 4% of the electorate split a ticket, only 16 counties recorded split ticket voting so to "address" the concerns of those blue collar Trump voters Dem's would have to agree to issues such as banning abortions, promoting bible courses in schools, banning same sex marriage, encouraging guns in schools....  How many D voters would leave if just one of these issues were placed on table? How many R voters would change to D if just one issue was before them?  After decades of demonization of D's as a political strategy, I don't see any evidence that this "massive chunk" of voters would flip a D lever for any reason.  Taking a big step to the right means leaving those on the left.  The R's are the ones that lost big, let them take the larger risk.

The decades have had Ds demonize Rs, and Rs demonize Ds. Populism is an equal opportunity oppressor.

It's not about getting voters to flip any particular lever, that's the mistake of populism. The goal of a rational progressive should be to bring the ideals of social justice to everyone, even with those whom we don't necessarily agree ideologically.

Failure to do that, propagates populist politics and leaves us with the "Negropontian Machine" ... where we advanced everything that we are able, in order to remove the wires from our phones to put antennas into them, and then remove the antennas from our televisions to put wires into them. If a progressive is unable to tell the difference between busy work and actual progress, then he or she isn't a progressive in any real sense, but rather a consumer of political product.

But we're seeing that in action right here ... you wanted to comment to me, but rather than just hit the quote button, you copied my words into your own posts without even mentioning that I wrote them, because you are apparently influenced by false progressives who implore you not to quote me because my words threaten them on some level. We're not afraid of the big bad Republicans, but we're terrified of our brothers-in-arms ... or in this case, a gaggle of Australian poseurs who don't vote here, don't pay taxes here, don't support those in poverty here, don't build progressivism here, but still feel compelled to define what the American experience should be ... they're essentially dilute and downmarket versions of Rupert Murdoch himself.

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No, I don't quote you for the same reason I don't quote Dog; I find the majority of your blather meaningless and refuse to promote it.  

As to the point, the Populist party was actually bringing  the Negro Farmers Alliance into their coalition, which cost them Southern votes.  The Progressive party was committed to the idea of bringing science to the process of governing and using the power of government to counter the influence of big business. Social justice was a much smaller part.

Don't presume to know my thinking or motivations, if you had those kinds of talents you wouldn't be wasting your time trying to promote your intellectual superiority on a small discussion board.

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32 minutes ago, learningJ24 said:

No, I don't quote you for the same reason I don't quote Dog; I find the majority of your blather meaningless and refuse to promote it.  

As to the point, the Populist party was actually bringing  the Negro Farmers Alliance into their coalition, which cost them Southern votes.  The Progressive party was committed to the idea of bringing science to the process of governing and using the power of government to counter the influence of big business. Social justice was a much smaller part.

Don't presume to know my thinking or motivations, if you had those kinds of talents you wouldn't be wasting your time trying to promote your intellectual superiority on a small discussion board.

No only did you quote me, but you actually copied my words and pasted them into your own post without attribution ... there is a word for that, but let's move on ...

You seem to present this idea that those who endorse and promote social justice are under no obligation to do bring social justice to people who disagree with their ideology, because those people can't help their cause and thus they are disposable. But without extending social justice to those who need it, that "cause" is little more than a bunch of wea