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hugo boss already for sale?


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that boat reminds me of my current road bike rebuild for the year; sometimes shit just becomes difficult and you end up paying the piper in numerous fucked up little ways which aren't really your fault.

maybe he should have just stuck with and improved upon his awesome boat from 2016 instead of going all hugoboss.

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Wow, worst boat possible for charter in my opinion. I once did a day sail on the former VOR SEB II boat, open deck, around 15 people, 1/3 sea sick. With the bat cave i predict 3/4 sea sick and no real sailing experience.

Also would be surprised if someone picks it it for racing.

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1 hour ago, teamvmg said:

Fast boat to do the next Vendee surely?

 

It really hasn't shown itself to be any faster than any other current model IMOCA.

 

It will be a vendee boat, but won't fetch the price his last bus did.

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I don't think ATR is going to continue. The posture of the entire campaign is/was very different from the get go and was going for one last hurrah. Which is why the douchebaggery surrounding his misfortune was so absurdly nationalistic and tragic - the imoca is probably losing one of the biggest non-French personalities and longest lasting sponsored programs. Regardless of whether AT ever won an event or not (which some trolls love to hammer on about) - ATR was very generous in giving his time/media to feed the event. There are some who have performed better and won with more success - but often they're closed up and basically do sufficient to get sponsorship to leave the dock then say cya to the event until they arrive.

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25 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I don't think ATR is going to continue. The posture of the entire campaign is/was very different from the get go and was going for one last hurrah. Which is why the douchebaggery surrounding his misfortune was so absurdly nationalistic and tragic - the imoca is probably losing one of the biggest non-French personalities and longest lasting sponsored programs. Regardless of whether AT ever won an event or not (which some trolls love to hammer on about) - ATR was very generous in giving his time/media to feed the event. There are some who have performed better and won with more success - but often they're closed up and basically do sufficient to get sponsorship to leave the dock then say cya to the event until they arrive.

You're exactly right Miffy. It would be a real sadness to loose ATR. I'm pretty sure they'll stay around but I think it is safe to say the boat is much more likely to be called Nokia - they're a very happy sponsor overall, I believe a new boat has even been discussed. Boss is tired and the last few years haven't been kind to them, it is public knowledge that it took some real convincing for them to commit to the 2020 VG. I can't see them getting that price but who knows. 

I know that the management within IMOCA are very worried about loosing Alex. He is the international class (yes I know Boris is German, Alan is Swiss, Pip is British etc)...

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Hugo Boss, as a company, will have been hit hard as much as any clothing retailer this last year - even though they are at the higher end of the market. It would be a little hard to justify sponsoring a fulll blown whizzy state of the art race yacht when their own employees jobs may be at risk - even if there is significant positive media exposure to them continuing. I just cant see HB continuing as a sponsor.

As for ATR and Alex, they have done an amazing job in promoting the Vendee and arguably the Vendee would not be in the same position as one of the top ocean racing events in the world had they never participated. It needed an English speaking media personality and top sailor to bring it to the fore for a more global coverage and exposure. In my view, it is THE top ocean racing event and now surpasses TOR/VOR - but thats just my view. To lose them would be a real shame. 

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It must be quite complicated for Alex, clearly he had the boat to win the thing (but Jérémie also), keeping on with another brand would be perfect

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6 hours ago, yl75 said:

It must be quite complicated for Alex, clearly he had the boat to win the thing (but Jérémie also), keeping on with another brand would be perfect

Exactly this. I had my money on him. He had the boat and skills. Not enough luck, though. Alex has become a central figure in this event. He is a fantastic sailor, a great sport, and an extremely efficient spokesman. I'm sure he can find another sponsor if he wants to. Does he want to, though?

 

On a sidenote, I read an interesting article about how sponsors, depending on their size and commitment, managed to cash back on the event. It's, as expected, rather cynical. Victory, or a place on the podium, is not relevant to the biggest ones. For instance, Banque Populaire made much more with Clarisse Cremer this year than with Le Cleac'h. And the race is not over. Marketing is key. And Alex is extremely good at this. Again, sponsors should not shy away from him. I hope he'll come back.

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The boat is for sale but they're not getting rid of it just yet. Rdr and TJV. Also I wonder if Apivia would be the most saught after IMOCA, it was demonstrably the faster boat but we never saw HB in the southern ocean. They can always sell it to some billionaire otherwise. The bigger question is... what happens with the team? Will AT continue past the TJV, will they find a new skipper, sell everything or what. My money's on a new skipper, if I was AT, i don't think I'd want a 6th crack at it. But then again, if you're that driven... 

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7 hours ago, yl75 said:

It must be quite complicated for Alex, clearly he had the boat to win the thing (but Jérémie also), keeping on with another brand would be perfect

I don't think there's a sponsor in the offshore big enough for AT after Hugo Boss. Maybe banque populaire but I don't ever see him going to Brittany. Ineos could expand its sailing operations, but the America's Cup is very much all or nothing. 

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13 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

Maybe AT is doing this in case Greta is planning to visit Biden.

 

img.jpg?width=980

She sails with Boris I think. 

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1 hour ago, leuk said:

Exactly this. I had my money on him. He had the boat and skills. Not enough luck, though. Alex has become a central figure in this event. He is a fantastic sailor, a great sport, and an extremely efficient spokesman. I'm sure he can find another sponsor if he wants to. Does he want to, though?

 

On a sidenote, I read an interesting article about how sponsors, depending on their size and commitment, managed to cash back on the event. It's, as expected, rather cynical. Victory, or a place on the podium, is not relevant to the biggest ones. For instance, Banque Populaire made much more with Clarisse Cremer this year than with Le Cleac'h. And the race is not over. Marketing is key. And Alex is extremely good at this. Again, sponsors should not shy away from him. I hope he'll come back.

Yeah if any race is not all about winning it’s the Vendee. 

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9 hours ago, leuk said:

 He had the boat and skills. Not enough luck, though.

I was thinking the same at the start, less so at arrival. His skills are not at doubt, maybe decision making in some conditions as his make or break attitude is sometimes questionable (like his choice very early in the race to go in strongest winds). Seeing the wind profile of this VG, it's hard to defend HB or Charal being much faster than lead group. Both were likely to run out of food well before the end and those boats were designed around typical predominant winds which represent a low percentage of the race this time around.

I rooted for Alex at the start as he would have been a great winner for the man and for the whole class. He fought admirably to repair his boat and continue. We will not know what would have happened but it was long from given he would have won this incredible race.

Let's hope he comes back for the next VG. As I understand he has quite good relationship with Boris. If Alex is not coming back himself, that would be great to see him work with Boris for the next one aiming at the win. Boris has been really good at content making and could become the next international representative after Alex.

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15 minutes ago, Lakrass said:

I was thinking the same at the start, less so at arrival. His skills are not at doubt, maybe decision making in some conditions as his make or break attitude is sometimes questionable (like his choice very early in the race to go in strongest winds). Seeing the wind profile of this VG, it's hard to defend HB or Charal being much faster than lead group. Both were likely to run out of food well before the end and those boats were designed around typical predominant winds which represent a low percentage of the race this time around.

I rooted for Alex at the start as he would have been a great winner for the man and for the whole class. He fought admirably to repair his boat and continue. We will not know what would have happened but it was long from given he would have won this incredible race.

Let's hope he comes back for the next VG. As I understand he has quite good relationship with Boris. If Alex is not coming back himself, that would be great to see him work with Boris for the next one aiming at the win. Boris has been really good at content making and could become the next international representative after Alex.

Yep, although I have a thing for the british sailor smart. Alex manages to be a modern sailor, respectful of a certain standing. Smiling, enthusiastic, ever polite, ever considerate. While I think it lacks a bit in that department, on the french side. Alex abort video was extremely gutting because this was a rare occasion where you'd see him demolished and utterly unable to hide it anymore. I guess although I'm french, I appreciate the british restraint more, dunno. Boris was great, but not the same level of great. He did finish, though, agreed.

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I think, if there is one IMOCA you really want to get your hold on, it is Occi. It sailed the best time equator / equator and you don't pay the 'winning boat' bonus. It will still be competitive for the next years (although next VG is a looong stretch, especially looking at foiling technology). It possibly would have won, if there hadn't been the bad luck shortly after the start.

maxresdefault.jpg

As far as Alex goes. I'm not sure if that would be that much of a loss. Sorry to say. I think that the stories that this edition has brought us were most compelling, deeply human and touching when they reminded us of true adventures, the kind of which this technologized world has lost. It was, especially in these times, the moments where you could NOT rely on bits, bytes and gear, that were the most touching. Kevin Escoffiers rescue, Pip Hare's rudder change, Boris' collision, so close. And then there was Jean Le Cam, the cliché of a french sailor who beats almost all of them and takes 'guests' while doing so. Clac clac clac.

In comparison: a grinding man in what looked basically like an odd carbon home office. I know I'm being unfair. Still: thanks, but I have that here. Sponsors will have a very close look at the 'storytelling' potential of those they want to set sail with in the next edition. A keel walk won't do, a deeper purpose is what they will look for.

 

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2 hours ago, Matagi said:

 

I think, if there is one IMOCA you really want to get your hold on, it is Occi

 

Fully agree but Armel seems to be thinking the same thing and has already said that he will do the next VG on the same boat

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2 hours ago, Matagi said:

In comparison: a grinding man in what looked basically like an odd carbon home office.

Hah hah that did make me laugh :D

Not entirely sure I agree though. Sure, Alex’s bat cave updates could have been filmed in a studio anywhere on earth, but the outside cameras provided some amazing footage.

And the way he told the story of his bow repairs was pretty compelling, I thought?

Reckon if he’d been able to continue and produce another ~ 2 months worth of videos it would have come across just as powerfully as the other skippers. Alas, it wasn’t meant to be...

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FWIW for those who don't subscribe to Seahorse, from the March edition: "...Three new IMOCA 60s had been ordered before the winner of the 2020/21 Vendee Globe crossed the finish, including a replacement for the blisteringly fast if trouble-prone scow L'Occitane..."

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24 minutes ago, t_huebs said:

FWIW for those who don't subscribe to Seahorse, from the March edition: "...Three new IMOCA 60s had been ordered before the winner of the 2020/21 Vendee Globe crossed the finish, including a replacement for the blisteringly fast if trouble-prone scow L'Occitane..."

The SCOW is for Beyou, I think the other two include the 11th Hour boat and the half built switchback which does apparently have a new owner. 

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On 01/02/2021 at 4:13 AM, arr4ws said:

The odd designed cockpit will be a tough sale (or charter ) for sure. Oh and all the repairs as well....

https://www.imoca.org/en/imoca/sales/for-sale-or-charter-imoca-hugo-boss-2019-

I presume the sale would be with new fore and aft bulkhead replaced plus other strengthening as necessary.

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Occitane indeed for sale, per this report (German), maybe going to Sorel.

Also notable that the US branch of the sponsor has filed for CH 11, though that does not necessarily imply (my lawyers tell me to write) that this relates in any way to the possible liquidation of assets of the parent company, other affiliates or its main shareholders. 

1066d.jpg

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LOccitane is just getting out of storefront leases. The bankruptcy is just strategic restructuring- their online business is thru the roof as white middle upper class women realize the mall was never part of the exp. 

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47 minutes ago, Miffy said:

LOccitane is just getting out of storefront leases. The bankruptcy is just strategic restructuring- their online business is thru the roof as white middle upper class women realize the mall was never part of the exp. 

I see, thanks.

Did your lawyers also tell you to write that? ;)

 

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Latest update from Alex - nearly back to Gosport. Will be interesting to see what he does next; I can’t imagine he’s spent an 8,000nm delivery trip collecting data without some ambitions for the future... 

 

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2 hours ago, jimmyuk81 said:

Latest update from Alex - nearly back to Gosport. Will be interesting to see what he does next; I can’t imagine he’s spent an 8,000nm delivery trip collecting data without some ambitions for the future... 

 

I was thinking the same thing

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On 2/1/2021 at 7:44 AM, Marty6 said:

Wow, worst boat possible for charter in my opinion. I once did a day sail on the former VOR SEB II boat, open deck, around 15 people, 1/3 sea sick. With the bat cave i predict 3/4 sea sick and no real sailing experience.

Also would be surprised if someone picks it it for racing.

I’d be fine for a couple of hours, but personally I wouldn’t want to spend 24 hours in there in bad weather.  Just not for me. 

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On 2/1/2021 at 11:04 AM, teamvmg said:

Fast boat to do the next Vendee surely?

 

How convinced is everyone that’s it’s really a rocket ship?  I haven’t been following what the final verdict was.

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On 2/1/2021 at 12:06 PM, Icedtea said:

It really hasn't shown itself to be any faster than any other current model IMOCA.

 

It will be a vendee boat, but won't fetch the price his last bus did.

That was my thought, be interesting to see if it gets the asking price??

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8 hours ago, mad said:

That was my thought, be interesting to see if it gets the asking price??

I doubt it. I doubt any of these boats ever fetch the asking price. Having said that HB is probably the second lowest mileage Imoca in the world and the lowest mileage on the open market!

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On 2/1/2021 at 1:06 PM, Icedtea said:

It really hasn't shown itself to be any faster than any other current model IMOCA.

 

It will be a vendee boat, but won't fetch the price his last bus did.

I see why you'd say that, but objectively, before shit hit the fan for Alex, he was the leader, even in conditions that were tough for foilers.

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ATR's latest video is interesting in that they have been doing a lot of speed settings and conditions analysis on the journey back to Blighty then sending the numbers back home to be crunched on the pooters. Why would they do this if the boat is up for sale? Guess they want it for a possible RDR etc, or something else? Perhaps there is an ATR 'to be continued' coming up?

 

 

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1 hour ago, JL92S said:

I doubt it. I doubt any of these boats ever fetch the asking price. Having said that HB is probably the second lowest mileage Imoca in the world and the lowest mileage on the open market!

With the largest amount of repair and re-build work as well.

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1 hour ago, ttc546 said:

ATR's latest video is interesting in that they have been doing a lot of speed settings and conditions analysis on the journey back to Blighty then sending the numbers back home to be crunched on the pooters. Why would they do this if the boat is up for sale? Guess they want it for a possible RDR etc, or something else? Perhaps there is an ATR 'to be continued' coming up?

 

 

A. More boat builders required - less computers IMO

B. They put it on the market, doesn’t mean it’ll sell. 

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6 hours ago, stief said:

Home. Quick servicing, then back in the water, and for what's next . . . . lots of opportunities, "and as soon as I know, you'll know."

 

https://twitter.com/ATRacing99/status/1357721183735738369?s=20

 

And, "looking forward to looking back", a bit like speeding the wrong way, to later go back to the turn off you just missed.

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2 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

And, "looking forward to looking back", a bit like speeding the wrong way, to later go back to the turn off you just missed.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of Alex's signals, even if he knows how it all shakes out. Boris would look great in a Hugo Boss tux with the Prince in Monaco's socials.

The financials and deals must be complicated. Trade off some all, more of the foil lawsuit with an 8k nm charter and experiment to develop AI for foils and autopilots? Share the data trade for exclusive on a new foil and boat? Etc. More than I want or need to figure out.

Bottom line is whether Alex is willing to give up another four years for another shot, or whether the attraction of going on the motivational speaker circuit and kite surfing with the family wherever he  damn well pleases.

Whatever he chooses, following his projects has been worthwhile. Looking forward to seeing how he routes the future.

 

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2 hours ago, thetruth said:

How many £ 2?

Not sure what you're asking? Something like Alex will suffer the  'cut of a thousand knives £2 bills'?

Agree Tuke and Burling would look good in that boat too.

(aside: sorry to hear you were't kidding.Can't do much, but hope you get a laugh over the bump in your rep)

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50 minutes ago, thetruth said:

£2 mill pounds. No one has ever listened to what I think but not only the boat but Tuke and Live Ocean? I would swap sides..............

What's not to like? https://liveocean.com/team/  Not sure I could switch from 10 yrs of hoping Telefonica/Mapfre could finally break that tiny difference that kept them off the top spot. Same with Alex ;) 

Oh, and as for "nobody listens . ." Of course. It should always be about the facts. The person is only the messenger, so making the fact about the poster is a mug's game. Vive la link.

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On 2/1/2021 at 11:24 AM, Miffy said:

Regardless of whether AT ever won an event or not (which some trolls love to hammer on about) - ATR was very generous in giving his time/media to feed the event.

Indeed he is an excellent spokesman; but as a solo racer his actual racing results are quite important. No doubt he feels that way himself.

On 2/1/2021 at 7:25 PM, leuk said:

I read an interesting article about how sponsors, depending on their size and commitment, managed to cash back on the event.

Are you able to provide a link, please?

On 2/1/2021 at 8:56 PM, SCANAS said:

if any race is not all about winning it’s the Vendee

Agreed.

 

 

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On 04/02/2021 at 11:14 PM, mad said:

How convinced is everyone that’s it’s really a rocket ship?  I haven’t been following what the final verdict was.

Some circulating stories that there were some trim problems which added to the extra loading of the bow sections which ended up with the fore and aft bulkhead in the bow cracking up.

Probably totally untrue and made up by someone looking to get the boat on the cheap. 

What are we to know, after all this is the anarchy and the boat looked pretty quick and the totally enclosed cockpit looked really cool. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/5/2021 at 5:51 AM, Matagi said:

Occitane indeed for sale, per this report (German), maybe going to Sorel.

Also notable that the US branch of the sponsor has filed for CH 11, though that does not necessarily imply (my lawyers tell me to write) that this relates in any way to the possible liquidation of assets of the parent company, other affiliates or its main shareholders. 

1066d.jpg

L'Occitane has been sold to Louis Burton and will be Bureau Vallee 3. in an interview, Louis mentioned being interested in Hugo Boss, but the price was way too high. He also mentioned being interested in Charal but the boat wasn't available just yet, and he wanted t a new boat now.

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1 minute ago, ronnie_simpson said:

L'Occitane has been sold to Louis Burton and will be Bureau Vallee 3. in an interview, Louis mentioned being interested in Hugo Boss, but the price was way too high. He also mentioned being interested in Charal but the boat wasn't available just yet, and he wanted t a new boat now.

He did good IMHO.

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15 hours ago, ronnie_simpson said:

L'Occitane has been sold to Louis Burton and will be Bureau Vallee 3. in an interview, Louis mentioned being interested in Hugo Boss, but the price was way too high. He also mentioned being interested in Charal but the boat wasn't available just yet, and he wanted t a new boat now.

 Seems a bit scatter gun. They are 3 quite different design concepts.

Will DMG be coming to market or is Kojiro going again?

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On 2/23/2021 at 8:08 AM, oioi said:

 Seems a bit scatter gun. They are 3 quite different design concepts.

 

More than one way to skin a cat. They all look good to my untrained eye and I don't think any of those choices demonstrated any fundamental weakness or superiority. It'll be interesting to follow the three of them

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On 2/28/2021 at 3:07 PM, Autonomous said:

More than one way to skin a cat. They all look good to my untrained eye and I don't think any of those choices demonstrated any fundamental weakness or superiority. It'll be interesting to follow the three of them

Probably true, from a raw performance standpoint. I suspect that L’Occitane is the easiest to make go fast consistently, followed by HB2019 and then Charal. The foil package on Charal just seems aggressive to me, an evolution of what Boris had. In one video Boris surfs to near 30kts and 15 seconds later he is down to 17kts. That is a huge apparent wind shift and not exactly maintaining a high average, and quite exhausting for a lap around the planet!

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"Times change." There's a new boss in town. 

Quote
A new BOSS man, a new vision of success
 Times change, along with what we value and how we view success. With this in mind, we introduce Chris Hemsworth as the BOSS man for a new generation. Through his two-decade-long career, the Australian actor has become an undeniable Hollywood superstar, yet he has never let himself be defined by his work alone. Success for Hemsworth is the ability to lead his life on his own terms, with dedication to family, friends and passion projects being as much a part of this as his on-screen achievements.

https://www.hugoboss.com/ca/en/chris-hemsworth/

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On 2/1/2021 at 6:21 PM, SCANAS said:

By charter they mean you hire it off them to race it - maybe with their shore team. 

No I think they mean taking punters/corporate suits out for a few hours so they can get a new profile pic for Facebook. Or if they are unemployed, LinkedIn. 

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Hugo Boss hate this clip almost as much as they hate being reminded that they made the Nazi's uniforms in WW2.

 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Hugo Boss hate this clip almost as much as they hate being reminded that they made the Nazi's uniforms in WW2.

Thanks LB. Quite funny. Had to check , and exactly a year ago today, even CTV covered the story

And six moths later, still going on.

Scouse me.   "Be Boss, be kind

Mr Charles, who is best known in Liverpool for painting some of the city's most iconic buildings and figures, said the money earned from the clothing venture would help pay towards his daughter's Emmy future

"Mr Charles, who is best known in Liverpool for painting some of the city's most iconic buildings and figures, said the money earned from the clothing venture would help pay towards his daughter's Emmy future"
 

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If I remember ATR's contract with Hugo Boss runs out after the next RdR? So the boat may be for sale / charter after that in the eventuality Alex can't extend the contract or find a new sponsor. If they manage that surely they'd go new boat to capitalise on any advances...

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  • 3 weeks later...
8 hours ago, vokstar said:

https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/2019/custom-imoca-60-3819839/

This bit in the description made me go huh?!?!

yep its is... by a country mile and those in the know, know it. But many will ignore HB7 for its capabilities as it did not complete the course and IMHO many will head off in the wrong direction with scow bows etc.
(and yes, I may be biased as Pete is my son)

 

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Scow bows are not an antithesis for the lessons you can learn from Hugo Boss either, and it's retirement are not the reason why we'll see more of them. Its a combination of lessons learned from the current generation foilers including HB, potential new rules, and the domination of the scow bow in class 40 currently.

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6 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Scow bows are not an antithesis for the lessons you can learn from Hugo Boss either, and it's retirement are not the reason why we'll see more of them. Its a combination of lessons learned from the current generation foilers including HB, potential new rules, and the domination of the scow bow in class 40 currently.

a foiling 60 is v different from a non foiling class 40 and they are running in different races (transatlantic v round the world) with different prevailing conditions.

i sail an Open50 and our loads are bigger than a Class40 but nowhere near that of a IMOCA 60... that 20ft jump is massive step up in every direction

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1 hour ago, SSolo said:

a foiling 60 is v different from a non foiling class 40 and they are running in different races (transatlantic v round the world) with different prevailing conditions.

i sail an Open50 and our loads are bigger than a Class40 but nowhere near that of a IMOCA 60... that 20ft jump is massive step up in every direction

I don't disagree with you here at all, I only don't think they deserve to be written off as "the wrong direction". They've already made one 20ft jump (mini's to class 40s).

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