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Easing loaded beachcat cunningham


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Sail a fun foiling beachcat – N15FCS. The stock cunningham uses a bog-standard set of swivel cleats attached to the mast. It gets pretty loaded for the kit it is.

Foiling boats get on foils and off foils all the time; apparent wind changes significantly; so we need to play the cunningham pretty actively, while trapezing low on the wire. Need to tighten, but also need to ease quite actively.

As it stands, when you are trapezing in a fully powered up situation, you're flat or sometimes lower than "the platform". So you can trim it, but you can't ease it (not without a telescopic arm). It's pretty loaded, and the line is pretty "deep" in it so a flick or whip of the line won't do it.

The swivel cleats don't seem to have adjustable angle; it's a one piece kit. Wondering about filing the grips on the cams so the line doesn't sit so 'deep'. Or changing for a slightly oversize line. 

Ideas?

Pictures snagged from google images to illustrate, might not be the exact kit. 

image.png.0e467bf9409a2d5e72bdfbb5e00ce112.png
image.png.05c4cdcc285f9db4cd2f5532e04aaa27.png 

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Swap the cam cleat for a spinlock?  It'd be easier to release, but dunno if you could successfully reengage from the trap.

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11 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

Angled mounting pad @mast

Spot on, the more you tip the top the shallower the bite, I have rotating cam cleats on the ends of my beam so the line is under the tramp

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On my A class I also moved over to the Spinlock PXR for exactly the same reason of being unable to release cam cleat from the wire. Although technically the release angle might not be too far off the cam cleat, the triggering force is some magnitudes lower on the PXR, so one could easily flick the rope to do the job (and the force is even adjustable). Small caveat: The PXR is (in my experience) unforgiving with the rope diameter when it comes to initial grip.

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13 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

the other option is you could get a lot of it off the mast and use the system Goodalls put on their boats (never tried it so can't comment on how well it works..)

cunningham.jpg.732be5a1203217092938a670b21f3b32.jpg

  Yeh , have used that system .

Doesn't work so well when you're at the back of the boat .

Reccon the Goodall's have gone away from it ?

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If you go to PXR's, you have to move to 5mm line or even 5.5mm; they are 6mm max. 4mm line slips in the PXR's, at least in the last 4x I've had with max spring force set.

I tend to use the stock swivel cleats and get them as low on the mast as possible.

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I've had difficulty re engaging a PXR from a distance, have you had that issue?  For me, it seems the angle to engage is from below the cleat base.

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1 hour ago, MultiThom said:

I've had difficulty re engaging a PXR from a distance, have you had that issue?  For me, it seems the angle to engage is from below the cleat base.

I had the same issue. Found them to be a pain from the trap on an F18.

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Nacra was supplying swilling PXR's(as you see in their rigging videos) as standard out of the factory and there is a reason all the top teams were changing the out to the harken swivel cleat setup immediately. 

For my team's Olympic boat, we used thin plastic mylar sheets cut into strips and built the height up underneath the cleat base until the down angle was just right for the helm to release from low wire. It will vary depending on the height of the driver, arm length and arm strength(arm day, every day). So just tweak it until you find the right setup for you. Also ditch the robline and upsize a mm or two. Find something with at least 30% dyneema or PTFE in the cover, this will make it easier the un-cleat under load but still holds in the cleat just fine.

Don't try to re-invent the wheel when you've got essentially two Olympic cycles worth of development on a very similar platform. 

Normally I would be in Miami this time of the year and you could walk around the world cup boat park to pick up on what's going down. Anyways see if you can go down to the sailing center and check out what the local N17 homies are doing on their platform. 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, IanA. said:

For my team's Olympic boat, we used thin plastic mylar sheets cut into strips and built the height up underneath the cleat base until the down angle was just right for the helm to release from low wire. It will vary depending on the height of the driver, arm length and arm strength(arm day, every day). So just tweak it until you find the right setup for you. Also ditch the robline and upsize a mm or two. Find something with at least 30% dyneema or PTFE in the cover, this will make it easier the un-cleat under load but still holds in the cleat just fine.

That's great to hear. It was one of my plans – upsize line, shims to tweak angle. What line did you settle on?

 

59 minutes ago, IanA. said:

Don't try to re-invent the wheel 

Mostly agreed, but some of the kit on the stock N15 is subpar. The rake indicator on crossbeam should be standard – on the N15 you just can't see the standard one because the spi ratchet block blocks the view. The cunningham attachment (at the sail grommet) is a PITA. And the cunningham setup – even if the harkens are workable, it's not "sorted" in any way.

Don't get me wrong. Love the boat :-)

 

57 minutes ago, IanA. said:

Normally I would be in Miami this time of the year and you could walk around the world cup boat park to pick up on what's going down. Anyways see if you can go down to the sailing center and check out what the local N17 homies are doing on their platform.

Miami homies seem to be on PXRs for the N17s. 

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1 hour ago, martin 'hoff said:

That's great to hear. It was one of my plans – upsize line, shims to tweak angle. What line did you settle on?

 

Mostly agreed, but some of the kit on the stock N15 is subpar. The rake indicator on crossbeam should be standard – on the N15 you just can't see the standard one because the spi ratchet block blocks the view. The cunningham attachment (at the sail grommet) is a PITA. And the cunningham setup – even if the harkens are workable, it's not "sorted" in any way.

Don't get me wrong. Love the boat :-)

 

Miami homies seem to be on PXRs for the N17s. 

Most of the U.S Olympic N17's, the ones actually going to Tokyo, are in Long Beach. That being said, I took a look at one of their old boats and the Flying Phantom, both using PXR's. The setup I've used successfully on an Infusion had the bottom screw of the PXR attached to the mast base itself.

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I can spy what's in Miami, as I'm close to US Sailing Center Coconut Grove.

There's a clear pattern here, nobody is using the stock cunningham setup as-is, because you can't trim/ease effectively from the wire. Looks like there's 2 camps - stay on the harken kit, sort out angle with shims and bump up rope size; vs stay on same/similar line, change to PXRs. 

More than enough options. We're in this for the fun of it. We don't have to be in the absolute best kit. Just trying to have workable kit.

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Sort out the angles with wedges and shims so you can play it when you are at average trap height.  When you go into super low trap mode, you are already max cunningham anyway, no further adjustment able.

Couldn't get to like the spinlock cleats, harken all the way.  Biggest difference fo me for easy easing was increasing the purchase to 24:1, at 12:1 I found it impossible to ease without a super tight mainsheet.  Range gets pretty small with more purchase, so have a course tune/fine tune system.

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