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The Denmark SailGP has a new look with two Women coming onboard https://sailgp.com/news/den-unveils-star-studded-crew/

Got the app sussed on my iPhone. So now collecting the screenshots of race 4 now. It's pretty incredible - both the app and the race. Just wait.

Paul Campbell-James is a seriously smart guy. I see from his WS resume that he got 3 straight A s  at A levels in the UK  . That is better than a 4.0 GPA. Then he went on to study ship science at

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2 hours ago, Laurent said:

And who would have thought France would be in the podium race???!!!

Allez les bleus!

Hats off to them. They sailed well all weekend long! They deserved to be in the Podium Race

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3 hours ago, Laurent said:

And who would have thought France would be in the podium race???!!!

Allez les bleus!

Totally agree. Their improvement over last season is nothing short of stellar. And really shows that the SailGP formula is right on - where it's all about the performance of these sailors. They get the team and performance right, they win...all while sailing boats that are incrementally improving every season. And everyone else an see the data that got them there - and work to build on that. It's brilliant really.

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Looks like crazy risky racing, but damn good show. Soma is right, all the upsets and confusion is lack of practice on these boats. 

From a safety first pov, they should be given more practice time. But without thrills and spills do you have a compelling TV show?

Either way, they are talented sailors, they'll have it under control soon.

Shout out to @Mozzy Sails, he got a great bit from Dylan Fletcher in a recent interview, where he was pointing out that in the AC the boats are finicky, training sessions are consumed by time spent in sorting gremlins out. The sailgp cats are sorted, and time on the water is sailing time. NO said something similar in a recent interview.

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I think the primary driver here is working to ensure that the teams are as equally matched as possible. For the teams with the hotshots, they get less training time. For those bringing up the rear (or new teams), they get more training time. The great leveler is that there are no secrets. The data is available to all. So learning to set the boat up exactly like the winner is no problem. Then it becomes a question of whether you can sail it like that winner.

I think the training formula is right on. And I think that's borne out by FRA showing so much improvement over last year. Granted, I have no idea how much training they've had during COVID. But it proves nonetheless that SailGP is never going to be boring...even with the absolute top-tier sailors in the mix. Lewis Hamilton has Mercedes to thank for the car he dominates with. Ben and Tom are sailing the same boat as everyone else.

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17 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

I think the primary driver here is working to ensure that the teams are as equally matched as possible. For the teams with the hotshots, they get less training time. For those bringing up the rear (or new teams), they get more training time.

That's obviously a cheat card -- gets people ramped up, and "competitive" quickly, likely saves a ton of money in training days across the group. I definitely like the results but don't like the cheat. As a bootstrapping device, 200%.

At some point, hopefully soon, it has to be put aside. Perhaps there's a max training days/hours to avoid an escalating training costs war, but it should be flat/even across teams. And it should be plenty – a day or two isn't. 

I am not aware of any pro sports that does anything similar at the top level, particularly in the long term.

Giving folks a brief on-ramp, that's fine.

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14 hours ago, Misbehavin' said:

Still waiting for this.

Having trouble with the app. The updated for iOS13 - and my iPad Air only goes to 12.5. App store says a download is available for older versions - but download is not starting.

I'll keep trying. But I'd say this is a bit of a fail on SGP's part. The app needs to be widely available and easy to access.

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Got the app sussed on my iPhone.

So now collecting the screenshots of race 4 now. It's pretty incredible - both the app and the race. Just wait.

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2 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Got the app sussed on my iPhone.

So now collecting the screenshots of race 4 now. It's pretty incredible - both the app and the race. Just wait.

I am so waiting on this! SailGP Thread over in the AC Forum has become bonaheaded yet again.

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3 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I am so waiting on this! SailGP Thread over in the AC Forum has become bonaheaded yet again.

I can't remember a time is wasn't. It is, after all, the AC forum.

In any case, it's taking me a bit longer than usual. I first had to straighten Clownwell out for his ridiculous KiWhinge take on the event. Boneheaded indeed.

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15 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

 

I can't remember a time is wasn't. It is, after all, the AC forum.

In any case, it's taking me a bit longer than usual. I first had to straighten Clownwell out for his ridiculous KiWhinge take on the event. Boneheaded indeed.

You did? How do you communicate with Clownwell ehm Gladwell?

I his Article Gladwell said Ben was the one who was required to keep clear after the douche thing Burling pulled,lol

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6 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Got the app sussed on my iPhone.

So now collecting the screenshots of race 4 now. It's pretty incredible - both the app and the race. Just wait.

Damn, they assume every one in the world has a mobile phone! 

Last I looked there was no app info for laptop users.  :angry:

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

You did? How do you communicate with Clownwell ehm Gladwell?

I his Article Gladwell said Ben was the one who was required to keep clear after the douche thing Burling pulled,lol

It was your prompt that made me read his story and decide he needed an earful via a direct, and wildly inventive FB post.

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39 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Damn, they assume every one in the world has a mobile phone! 

Last I looked there was no app info for laptop users.  :angry:

If you saw the technology (and the target audience dynamics) you'd understand why they are focusing on mobile. It's the right call - as frustrating as it may be for some. At least they are making the races accessible on the social platforms as well. It's all good.

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As I said - I won't put my astute analysis here. But I will leave these 2 little tidbits to show you guys how cool the app is (notwithstanding the bugs in the team abbreviations on the leader board)...

IMG_9170.png

And what do you notice about this screen?

IMG_9187.png

 

 

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FailGP is so fucking cool that it has to pay 'influencers' on various forums to promote it?

EDIT: and they are paid in Km/hr

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On 4/28/2021 at 4:26 AM, smackdaddy said:

I think the primary driver here is working to ensure that the teams are as equally matched as possible. For the teams with the hotshots, they get less training time.

Bullshit.  They get paid by the day and the better ones cost more.

You are a lying cunt smackbaddly.

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20 hours ago, Randro said:

Bullshit.  They get paid by the day and the better ones cost more.

You are a lying cunt smackbaddly.

Haters thread is over in the AC fourm .

So if you wouldn't mind please fuck off .

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1 hour ago, Justaquickone said:

Haters thread is over in the AC fourm .

So if you wouldn't mind please fuck off .

And why would we want to have the better sailors win?

Why not plot to see the shit sailors do a well as the good ones?  That way the bogan stoners can sit back and watch close racing!!!!

Why didn't we think of that before?

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On 4/27/2021 at 1:16 AM, Lost in Translation said:

Re the collision with USA and Japan, it looked like Jimmy did not avoid and held his course. I wonder if he did not see them?

Interesting question.

There were 2 or 3 times when boats did a last second tack to avoid a starboard tacker.  I was wondering if things are happening so fast that they cant check to leeward as much as needed...?  It seems japan boat should have known usa boat would be a problem and just planned on going behind, or tacking inside the usa boat.  It could be both boats were unaware of each other until the last second.

Also i thought spain boat should have held off on their tack when they led, but they tacked and went behind uk boat, then fell off the foils.  cat racing 101 to just wait for the other guy to tack for the mark even if it makes you overstand.

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13 hours ago, david r said:

It seems japan boat should have known usa boat would be a problem

There's a good video on yt with the onboard audio from Japan. Initially Nathan thinks he'll cross first. Speed is a bit uneven. He then realizes he won't, and he just doubts for 2 seconds. By the time he calls for a tack it's too late. Rust? Team not yet fully gelled and up to speed? Just a human error?

Damn interesting.

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In Mozzy's video, PCJ mentions the crazy acceleration that these small wings provide. He said none of the teams were ready for that kind of speed. He said USA thought JPN would cross first too, but that acceleration for USA happened faster than any of them thought it would.

Boats are just too damn fast.

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All of the present dialog aside, the F50 is a way better platform that the AC75.  It allows for closer maneuvers, the boats accelerate very quickly and in large part due to the one design aspect the racing is way more intense with frequent lead/position changes.  And they can foil in lighter air 

 

There is nothing 'monohull about the AC 75s.  They are cool, but an inferior platform.  

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Couldn't agree more. And I think that's abundantly clear now - by the sailing itself and by the words coming from the pro sailors themselves.

The America's Cup is a stodgy, traditional event. And that's fine. But SailGP is ball-busting, flat-out racing. And I definitely prefer the latter.

BTW - analysis is up for races 4 and 5. Pretty interesting stuff. Final coming soon.

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smackbadly is just not that good at this shit.

'Influencers' are supposed to go about things effectively, without pissing people off and making them switch off the product.

But that is what he does.

If it was not for him I would probably watch it.

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Just put up the analysis of The Final - with extra screens from the app showing the data at critical moments in the race. You can really see how Ben and GBR are beating AUS and everyone else when it counts...and so can all the other teams. No secrets. Just skill, performance, and strategy.

Great stuff. I can't wait for Italy.

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On 5/4/2021 at 10:07 PM, smackdaddy said:

The America's Cup is a stodgy, traditional event. And that's fine. But SailGP is ball-busting, flat-out racing. And I definitely prefer the latter.

That may be true but the Aussie's won the Bermuda regatta using real world regatta scoring...

The 'medal race winner takes all' is just bullshit!

If regular folk can figure out who is winning a tennis match, I'm betting they can follow a leader board across a series.

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"Real world" - meaning "traditional"? I think the 3-boat medal race final is a great idea. All of them know it's top 3 - and all of them know anyone can take it. So they go for it. The season championship points are still accumulating - but the event is up for grabs to whomever can win that final race. It makes every event important to the overall season - AND exciting at the end. Making SailGP a "tennis match" over the whole season with each event being a "set"? That sounds absolutely horrible.

The bottom line to the current formula, you have to win to win. If you don't think it's fair - win.

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It's a bit confusing actually. Season 1 had clarity. Fleet racing + match racing. Two distinct disciplines.

A tad odd but a clear change of rules. Might have worked better on a best of 3 match races.

The 3 boat race is an odd duck. Ok you've done away with the crowded fleet, no random crashes with a boat you didn't see. If the 3rd boat is lagging, match race, if not, small fleet race... Start line tactics muddled on 3 skippers making a bet on tactical mode with no time to spare.

Sure, it mixes things up. But it does so on confusion. Unless the dynamics settle soon, it's a misfire IMHO.

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It's still fleet racing and match racing. It's just that a 3rd boat is in the mix in the match - which makes things a lot more interesting (e.g. - when AUS pushed FRA out at the start, caught GBR, but then got blown down by GBR - which was brilliant - and had to fight off FRA to hold 2nd). It's certainly a new twist - kind of a "double match" - but I don't think it's confusing - just new.

As I pointed out in my analysis, the F50s are nothing like the AC75s were. If the F50 does fall off, it gets back up and running very quickly. They don't have to sail the wrong way out of bounds just to try to get back up on the foils as the other boat does laps. So the SGP racing is always pretty tight and very exciting.

It's pretty simple stuff really...

https://sailgp.com/general/sailgp-overview/

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On 5/3/2021 at 2:10 PM, Lost in Translation said:

@Mozzy Sailsdid an interview where Team USA member Paul Cambell-James shared they did not see the port approach boat.

.

 

Paul Campbell-James is a seriously smart guy.

I see from his WS resume that he got 3 straight A s  at A levels in the UK  . That is better than a 4.0 GPA. Then he went on to study ship science at University of Southampton. 

Good guy to have as your wing trimmer.

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Someone asked me why I don't post in AC SGP thread anymore. Well, it's a long story that involved me giving a massive wedgie to a certain cross-section of posters followed by lots of tears and threats. I finally heard the word "uncle" and left.

But more importantly its just not a fun or interesting discussion over there for the most part. When the 2nd most prolific poster in that thread can only incessantly crap all over SGP while saying he's not interested in the subject - what's the point? Why argue?

2103119839_ScreenShot2021-05-07at10_56_16PM.png.3ec4e195cf7bf48c93bc5a9a8b9f35c0.png

And in any case, my SGP threads in this sleeply little MHA forum are always the most viewed. So it's good to know lots of people are interested.

Cheers.

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3 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Someone asked me why I don't post in AC SGP thread anymore. Well, it's a long story that involved me giving a massive wedgie to a certain cross-section of posters followed by lots of tears and threats. I finally heard the word "uncle" and left.

It's the bullshit 'Influencer' behavior that shit people off.  If you were any good you could get the job done without attracting those claims, but you aren't, so so get attacked.

You just piss people off as an blatant shill, simple as that.

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If you had any question at all about GBR's superior talent and smarts on the course at this point - this was the jawdropping move in the final that will haunt Slingsby's dreams for years to come...

IMG_9310.png

And it's not simply that AUS went in, but why it went in. Jensen completely flattens the wing, Ben steers the angle, and AUS splashes in the enormously dirty air. Incredible.

It shows exactly what Ben and his team are capable of. THAT's Slingsby's nightmare.

Levels to the game. It's going to be a great season.

 

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On 5/6/2021 at 8:36 AM, smackdaddy said:

"Real world" - meaning "traditional"? I think the 3-boat medal race final is a great idea. All of them know it's top 3 - and all of them know anyone can take it. So they go for it. The season championship points are still accumulating - but the event is up for grabs to whomever can win that final race. It makes every event important to the overall season - AND exciting at the end. Making SailGP a "tennis match" over the whole season with each event being a "set"? That sounds absolutely horrible.

The bottom line to the current formula, you have to win to win. If you don't think it's fair - win.

I'm not suggesting SGP be a season long tennis match, that's your leap!

Let's play with actual sailing reality: Say you beat my ass in every race over a 2 day regatta and I get 2s and 3s. Then I finally catch a bullet in the final race and I win the regatta????

It's just stupid and lazy for this and the Olympics...

 

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As I said - the solution to your posited conundrum is very simple...

Win.

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Yet the best sailed and most consistent boat over the weekend did not win... 

Maybe I'm just not seeing this format as the silver bullet that propels sailing to prime time TV coverage resulting in everybody running out and buying foiling cats!

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The boat that won the final - won. The boat that did not, still got its season championship points from previous race wins - but did not win the event when it counted in the final.

It's actually very, very simple. I suppose I just don't understand your complaint. Giving first place to second place just isn't how it works.

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What is hard to understand about this statement?:

'the best sailed and most consistent boat over the weekend did not win the regatta'

 

Ben won only a single race....

I guess I hate the notion that you have to change/dumb down the game so it fits inside a TV

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43 minutes ago, Liquid said:

What is hard to understand about this statement?:

'the best sailed and most consistent boat over the weekend did not win the regatta'

Ben won only a single race....

Simple....your statement is wrong. You really should go back and look at the results.

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3 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Simple....your statement is wrong. You really should go back and look at the results.

He can't because they do not keep a record of the results online

But to answer his question

1. Ben won two races. He won race 4 and of course he won the final challenge race (Race 6)

2.  Sling was consistent. He won 4 out of 6 races and came 2nd in the other two. It is impressive, but unfortunately when the competition is a round robin and then a sudden death final race, consistency is not enough. You have to pull out everything and win the final race.

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On 5/9/2021 at 2:00 PM, Liquid said:

I'm not suggesting SGP be a season long tennis match, that's your leap!

Let's play with actual sailing reality: Say you beat my ass in every race over a 2 day regatta and I get 2s and 3s. Then I finally catch a bullet in the final race and I win the regatta????

 

 

In 2007, the Patriots won every game in the regular season and every game in the play offs including beating the Giants.

In the final game, the Superbowl, they lost to the Giants.

Its the nature of many sports . You have to win the final.

Verstappen led last week ends grand prix from the first lap until Lap 60.  But Hamilton was in the lead on lap 66, the final lap.

 

The giants won the superbowl and Hamilton won the grand prix and Ben ainslie's team won the Bermuda Sail GP....because they won the final race.

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@EYESAILOR

You can get every Single Fleet Race Result from the 2019 SailGP Championship via Wikipedia. 

Open Wiki, search SailGP, once you have opened the SailGP Page on Wiki select 2019 Championship and then Results.

It is all there:)

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On 5/9/2021 at 4:04 AM, smackdaddy said:

If you had any question at all about GBR's superior talent and smarts on the course at this point - this was the jawdropping move in the final that will haunt Slingsby's dreams for years to come...

IMG_9310.png

And it's not simply that AUS went in, but why it went in. Jensen completely flattens the wing, Ben steers the angle, and AUS splashes in the enormously dirty air. Incredible.

It shows exactly what Ben and his team are capable of. THAT's Slingsby's nightmare.

Levels to the game. It's going to be a great season.

 

We need these Stats on the big TV Screen IMO and not only on a snarky little Smartphone!

Iain Jensen absolutely twisted the Wing to throw Maximum dirty air onto the Australians causing them to fall off the Foils. Incredible!

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

We need these Stats on the big TV Screen IMO and not only on a snarky little Smartphone!

Iain Jensen absolutely twisted the Wing to throw Maximum dirty air onto the Australians causing them to fall off the Foils. Incredible!

I've emailed SailGP, asking them about getting the App onto the Web, so I can view it simultaneously on a second PC monitor, &/or re-watch later.  AC36 didn't seem to have a problem doing this.

Maybe if enough people request this, they might implement it?

contact@sailgp.com

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7 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

I've emailed SailGP, asking them about getting the App onto the Web, so I can view it simultaneously on a second PC monitor, &/or re-watch later.  AC36 didn't seem to have a problem doing this.

Maybe if enough people request this, they might implement it?

contact@sailgp.com

We need Virtual Eye on SailGP!

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19 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

In 2007, the Patriots won every game in the regular season and every game in the play offs including beating the Giants.

In the final game, the Superbowl, they lost to the Giants.

Its the nature of many sports . You have to win the final.

Verstappen led last week ends grand prix from the first lap until Lap 60.  But Hamilton was in the lead on lap 66, the final lap.

 

The giants won the superbowl and Hamilton won the grand prix and Ben ainslie's team won the Bermuda Sail GP....because they won the final race.

comparing apples to street lamps?

So, the world series winner is the one who only wins the last game?

Makes perfect sporting sense...........

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23 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Simple....your statement is wrong. You really should go back and look at the results.

The Brits won one race vs the Aussie's 4 bullets during the regular series!

4 bullets for Australia and 2 bullets for the Brits including the idiotic final 3 boat race.......

Ben is the best, go Ben go! Even tho he got his ass effectively kicked 4 - 2!

It's like winning a participation trophy!

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27 minutes ago, Liquid said:

The Brits won one race vs the Aussie's 4 bullets during the regular series!

4 bullets for Australia and 2 bullets for the Brits including the idiotic final 3 boat race.......

Ben is the best, go Ben go! Even tho he got his ass effectively kicked 4 - 2!

It's like winning a participation trophy!

Like I (and others) said, your statement was wrong.

As to your continued confusion, all I can offer is THIS...

 

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Seriously?

Did Ben win MORE races????????????????????????????

What's wrong with Ben lost 2 to 4? My google -fu is just fine douchebag!

Which reality do you live in?

 

 

 

https://sailgp.com/news/bermuda-season-2-results/

 

Interesting to watch but still a truly meaningless series that will never reach financial independence nor have ANY impact on the future of sailing.

Have fun masturbating in front of each other....

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I'm really looking forward to the racing in Italy in about 3 weeks time. Should be more great racing.

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22 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

I'm really looking forward to the racing in Italy in about 3 weeks time. Should be more great racing.

Me too! However I expect the Winds to be at the lighter end in Taranto.

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Well that will be interesting to see the difference in performance. I think BA is more interested long-term in the CEO role, so this makes sense. Seeing if he can build a competitive team without him at the helm. If they such, he comes back in. If they do well, he leaves it to them and enjoys a cigar behind the desk while his boys stink up the neoprene.

Goody has a great reputation all-round - with TH really talking him up as a helmsman during his AM run. So it's a good pick.

It will be fun to watch.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looking forward to this weekend's racing via the app. One thing I'll be paying closer attention to is the Umpire View. As I mentioned in my widely-read analysis, the umpires were all over the JPN/USA bow-slicing long before anyone knew what was coming (a fact that seems to still be escaping many "SA experts")...

IMG_9187-e1619909348395.png

 

This app is where it's at. And you're welcome.

 

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Yep - just keeps getting better. Everyone obviously wants to be part of SailGP. It's the pinnacle of sailing after all.

1591825646_ScreenShot2021-06-04at12_16_12PM.png.b2c39be856d2e0906302578d4a72814f.png

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Cool racing. I really enjoyed seeing Nate and Jimmy going at it.

But man what a weird format. Does the RC decide how many sailors, wing and jib sizes for all boats? The unwritten rule seems to be -- let's put on a good show, and I do appreciate the spectacle, but it's losing transparency as to what's the actual competition.

And the commentary is no longer any good. Bring back good sailing commentators, please? A mix of voices, some catering for sailors some for mainstream seems good but a cohesive team of sailors saying turn instead of tack is... not so good. Knots not km.

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Compare that light wind racing to what we saw with the AC and, well, there is just no comparison. This was incredible, exciting racing all the way through.

As for the 3-man crew, that was an interesting twist. But I get it. The key driver always is to make the boats go fast. Since the times of "cutting toothbrushes in half" - the guiding principal has always been to make the boats lighter. That's what happened here. The weight limits for all teams is a critical - and leveling - factor in this racing. You'll notice that the ones that didn't want the crew reduction all ended up in the bottom of the barrel. Those that did made it pay. It will be interesting to see if this happens again when they get the bigger wing. I don't think it will. But it was a good move today.

So, I really don't see the complaint. SailGP is foremost about one thing - making everything exactly the same for every team (boat, weight, data, etc.) so that it's about the sailors and their abilities. Period. There has never been a sailing event as transparent as this one. And what that does is expose the strengths and weaknesses of the sailors. That's the way it should be. No hiding behind design tricks, questionable technologies, PHRF, arcanely litigated "rules", or whatever else. How you do on the course shows how well you and your team can sail. Period. THAT'S actual competition with zero excuses.

In that regard, today was very telling as to the power of Ben for GBR, and the clearly lackluster sailing abilities of the Kiwis (talk about getting totally pantsed out there). I'm guessing AUS was facing gear issues for them to drop off the edge of the world like they did. And it's clear that JPN is still a powerhouse despite Bermuda - with FRA and ESP showing huge gains from S1. But, like with Ben for GBR, it's also clear how much of an impact Spithill has had on USA. Again - talent. Transparent talent.

Also, I have no problem with the "dumbing down" of the speed units and overall language. As you mention, this is about "putting on a good show" and making sailing actually exciting to watch for a broader audience. The AC absolutely did NOT deliver that. SailGP is delivering it - in spades. It's what our sport has desperately needed for a very long time. When sailing events and broadcasts are tailored primarily to sailors - you're just ensuring the death of sailing much more quickly. SailGP is doing the exact opposite.

Finally, I also disagree on the commentary commentary. I think they are doing a very good job (much, much better than Sydney - and even better than Bermuda). They have found a good balance between that generalized language for a broad audience and sailing language for the sticklers which also teaches that broader audience. Everything continues to improve and is unquestionably moving in the right direction.

Tomorrow should be great.

 

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Yup @smackdaddy

Quite obvious that the Brits do need Ben Ainslie to helm the boat. I have nothing against Paul Goodison but he seems "Too Nice" to me. You ought to take some risks in this Game if you want to succeed!

The reason Spithill, Slingsby and Ainslie have been so successfull in their careers is because they are willing to go over "Broken Glass" if they have to do that.

The Brits will likely still lead the Season Championship after Taranto BUT Ben needs to be back for Plymouth next month!

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Great racing. And the rudder issue with USA shows why the winner-take-all in the event championship race is exactly the way it should be.

Looking forward to Plymouth.

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5 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

the rudder issue with USA shows why the winner-take-all in the event championship race is exactly the way it should be.

huh????? USA sailed to a solid 2nd in the pre-regatta

Japan lead the regatta and won the stupid final race - almost like a real regatta...

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You're still here? And you still don't get it? Sorry dude, I have no energy to keep trying to explain to you how things work in actual racing. You'll need outside counsel - with crayons and a popup book I'm sure.

It was great to see DEN making clear improvements. And though it was interesting to see the Kiwis catch a break on a very light and fluky course (their specialty it seems) - it's still abundantly clear they are continually outclassed when it comes to real racing. 3-8-5-1-7. Compare that to DEN's results: 5-7-6-4-3, and you can see how poorly the Kiwis are doing overall - especially with their much-touted "pedigree" - and why the 1 was clearly luck. They are only doing "well" when others are cratering. That's not a winning strategy.

And GBR - oof. They are off the foils in every sense of the word.

So ESP is now claiming the top of the championship board! Pretty impressive at this point. (Can someone please explain that to Liquid. I'm sure he's furiously confused about it all.)

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I heard in the presser references to a change in the rules related to that incident last time in which Japan and USA collided. I haven't found details about what they changed. Does anyone know? Thanks.

I enjoyed watching the recorded YouTube video yesterday and today. I guess some, not that many are actually watching. I am not sure if the live views are higher, but the views of the video are 30k or so. I am curious about what happened to US at the last leeward mark this morning. Did they really hit something?

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The rule they are talking about is Rule 14:

Quote
Rule 14 – Avoiding Contact

“A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible. However, a right-of-way boat or one sailing within the room or mark-room to which she is entitled need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room or mark-room.”

Jimmy said that the review board said the rule is "binary". In other words, they didn't see that Jimmy took any action to avoid - therefore, even though he had the right-of-way - if he took no action, he was culpable. The problem is with the bold part.  JPN did actually begin taking action to avoid - theoretically letting USA off the hook on Rule 14. Nate just did so WAY too late. And at the closing speeds we're talking about, Jimmy had no time to react at that point.

So I totally agree with Jimmy - this was a bad call. The rule is anything BUT "binary". And Nate seems to be pissing everyone off.

As for USA today, yes, they hit something. There is video floating around of the rudder after the incident. The stock completely sheared at the top - and the dude showed the impact mark just below midway down.

I'll be doing my write-up soon with the app - looking at all the different angles and data. Good stuff.

 

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On 6/6/2021 at 4:40 AM, dg_sailingfan said:

.

The Brits will likely still lead the Season Championship after Taranto BUT Ben needs to be back for Plymouth next month!

As previously stated, he won't be. 

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That unhinged article on the mythical front page was all about the errors SailGP made, but had errors in it itself. That's the kind of outrage our society is suffering from these days. It just doesn't help anything. Let's try for constructive feedback when we have it and, if you don't, then STFU.

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Yeah I just saw it. Who is this idiot "David"? He's complaining about not being able to keep up with who's leading because the heli feed was lost, then types this?

Quote

In the final race, when the New Zealand boat had a comfortable lead with just two legs to sail, one of its carbon rudders was damaged or broken, presumably after hitting a submerged object. The boat stopped dead in the water and the event was robbed of its proper result.  

Here's the general rule: If you're going to confidently prognosticate about the ills and questionalbe future of something you clearly know nothing about, at least get the basics right. Else you'll make a complete ass of yourself.

Did that Forourselves dude write that? At least this "David" made an ass out of himself in a section of SA that gets even less eyeballs than Caption Anarchy.

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This Anarchist David business is just bizarre. No one by that name has been actively on the boards arguing any of this right? And he was complaining about America's Cup earlier so it can't be a nom de guerre of our favorite ultra-Kiwi. The fact is, through the Covid problems the unevenness in boat time, the uncertainty around the Olympics  with the resultant team changes, they have managed to deliver the most successful foiling race series over a range of conditions that we have ever seen. Yes they went to three man crews but they pulled it off. Anarchist David's criticisms will be a like a series of badly aging tweets, as the technical and boat-time issues  get resolved. Race by race they are figuring it out and if the series can last, it does absolutely have the potential to be the elite inshore series we want to watch in between the AC. I've watched every foiling race I could easily find online, AC obviously, but  including trying to watch TF35 highlights and Nacra 17 WS events and I don't think we've ever seen anything so consistent and exciting across a range of conditions. Could it be "more important" than the AC? I really don't think it matters. If you have all the top racers and it's a regular event every season and it delivers the best sailing entertainment possible, we will watch it. Bring on Plymouth. 

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Yeah the FP article is bizarrely wrong.

I really like SailGP in general, and I want both the SailGP circuit and AC to succeed. Still, the format is starting to turn more towards the weird. Just like it was off-putting every time when the AC turned into a legal dispute, there are things that grate

  • Seemingly arbitrary changes -- team changes (talent rotated around -- ie: Japan's lineup, UK lineup), configuration changes (3 sailors vs 6)
  • ... which made me realize, it looks like the teams don't get to choose their jib size either; not just mainsail locked in, but jib as well
  • the gradual lowering of quality of the commentary

There's a ton to like. But there's a growing sense that there's a Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. I don't mind this wizard putting a little bit of a finger on the scale to keep it interesting... still, it's loading up and getting into the too much range for me. 

Not sure if I'm reading too much into things. 

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19 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

As for USA today, yes, they hit something. There is video floating around of the rudder after the incident. The stock completely sheared at the top - and the dude showed the impact mark just below midway down.

 

 

I am guessing they hit the mark or its mooring line. In the videos I saw, it happened exactly as they were passing very close to the mark and although Jimmy was looking at the port rudder, he spoke about the starboard rudder, which was the one near the mark.

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59 minutes ago, nroose said:

I am guessing they hit the mark or its mooring line. In the videos I saw, it happened exactly as they were passing very close to the mark and although Jimmy was looking at the port rudder, he spoke about the starboard rudder, which was the one near the mark.

AFAIK the mark is robotic, remote controlled, GPS-located. Doesn't have a mooring line.

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1 hour ago, nroose said:

I am guessing they hit the mark or its mooring line. In the videos I saw, it happened exactly as they were passing very close to the mark and although Jimmy was looking at the port rudder, he spoke about the starboard rudder, which was the one near the mark.

I thought that at first too, but that would have just tangled them up I think.  It was mentioned that they get up around a ton of downforce on the windward rudder foil, so add in the drag force as well, and those rudder stocks would have to be pretty sturdy.

Looked like at least 100mm in diameter from the pic posted a while ago.

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They hit something a good bit before the mark, then what we saw at that mark was the stock post finally shearing under load...

 

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7 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

AFAIK the mark is robotic, remote controlled, GPS-located. Doesn't have a mooring line.

Not yet, but maybe on the way. 

The marks used for the Inspire are, but they are also tiny by comparison, and don't gather wind data either. 

@nroose the F50 would have to actually hit the mark to even get close to the anchor chain, the anchor point is dead in the middle of a mark that is essentially a 20ft container. 

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20 hours ago, Foiling Optimist said:

This Anarchist David business is just bizarre. No one by that name has been actively on the boards arguing any of this right? And he was complaining about America's Cup earlier so it can't be a nom de guerre of our favorite ultra-Kiwi. The fact is, through the Covid problems the unevenness in boat time, the uncertainty around the Olympics  with the resultant team changes, they have managed to deliver the most successful foiling race series over a range of conditions that we have ever seen. Yes they went to three man crews but they pulled it off. Anarchist David's criticisms will be a like a series of badly aging tweets, as the technical and boat-time issues  get resolved. Race by race they are figuring it out and if the series can last, it does absolutely have the potential to be the elite inshore series we want to watch in between the AC. I've watched every foiling race I could easily find online, AC obviously, but  including trying to watch TF35 highlights and Nacra 17 WS events and I don't think we've ever seen anything so consistent and exciting across a range of conditions. Could it be "more important" than the AC? I really don't think it matters. If you have all the top racers and it's a regular event every season and it delivers the best sailing entertainment possible, we will watch it. Bring on Plymouth. 

I'm glad to see others think David's post is bull. I have been trying to watch televised sailing for a long time and this is pretty much the best I've seen. I do wish they would get better commentators, but that's pretty much always the case. 

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3 minutes ago, Mizzmo said:

I'm glad to see others think David's post is bull. I have been trying to watch televised sailing for a long time and this is pretty much the best I've seen. I do wish they would get better commentators, but that's pretty much always the case. 

There's certainly lots of little things to improve, and if the series is able to continue and develop as it has been, they will be readily solved. The CatSailing News guy has a great post making the central point which is the F50 is emerging as an excellent platform that can foil in a wide range of wind conditions and in particular, works fine in displacement mode so boats can get back foiling and light wind races don't fall apart as bad as we saw in the AC. Mozzy Sails just has a video up with some other points they need to fix up, like start camera angles, but then goes on the explain how he's really come around on the  reaching starts. And yes commentary is hard at the best of times and hopefully they'll figure it out and clearly there will be a continued evolution in tactics as the the sailors figure the boats and the format out better. I am very optimistic. 

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There were several very interesting moments in the Taranto race that you can only really appreciate with the app. As mentioned above, when exactly did USA obliterate Flipper with a razor sharp rudder at 40 knots? How did ESP come back after starting last? Etc.

One of those moments was the start of race 5 where Nate shamelessly urinated all over Phil. Some are trying to call it a foul of some kind - like they think these pro umpires and Phil (who didn't protest - yet is actually in 1st place overall) aren't as smart they are. When when you watch it with the Umpire Cam and even onboard ESP - you can see it was just elbows-out competition* which is exactly the way it should be. I'll be doing my world-famous analysis on this event when I get a chance. But the app is hands-down the best sports viewing set-up on planet earth right now. No question.

*Hint: For those who think Nate was being "unsporstmanlike" (whatever that means) - do you really not think Nate knew the overall score calculus - putting Phil where he is now? That's why the question of how ESP came back like they did is so important. I would imagine Nate was a bit shocked. Stay tuned.

 

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Classic.

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I've been talking with Moz a bit on his YT channel about the app. I think most people don't really understand how revolutionary it is. So I'll do my future race breakdowns with it using screencap video. Stay tuned. You won't be disappointed.

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