Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 671
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

The Denmark SailGP has a new look with two Women coming onboard https://sailgp.com/news/den-unveils-star-studded-crew/

When the Volvo Ocean Race requested proposals for an inshore foiler for their stop overs, I considered the problem of having multiple very fast boats sailing in constricted areas.  I proposed this. Ig

Looks like plenty of room to me.  It is like BA said at the time, "how much room does he want?"  Bad call by the umps

Posted Images

Hmm, looks like I am getting geoblocked.

Day 1 is there but Day 2, for some reasons only Google and SailGP might know, is not.

THX for the help

Link to post
Share on other sites

No worries Benjey, I'll have my R2 analysis using the app posted in the next day or two. The app is really the best way to watch SGP. YT just doesn't cut it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Apart from the racing itself, the most interesting aspect of what SailGP is doing is in the data. This is a great article explaining how it is leading the charge of next-gen sports entertainment, and how the Premier League and Red Bull Racing is getting in on the action...

Quote

For instance, the national teams competing in the SailGP championship series, using Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, can cost-effectively analyze more than 80 billion data requests generated over the course of eight races. Those data points are transmitted to Oracle’s London cloud region for analysis and distribution to teams’ headquarters and to broadcasters worldwide, all within two-tenths of a second. Software called Oracle Stream Analytics uses machine learning to correlate patterns gleaned from the 30,000 data points an F50 catamaran sends every second of a race, helping teams determine optimal in-race strategies and providing fans with deep insights.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90644407/how-cloud-technology-is-changing-the-way-we-watch-and-play-our-favorite-sports

 

And in addition, you have the global broadcast footprint of SailGP really growing as well...

https://www.sportsvideo.org/2021/04/21/sailgp-extends-broadcast-coverage-to-reach-175-territories-in-second-season/

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

That gives me a 404. You mean this?

https://sailgpinsights.com/

In any case, as I show in my astute in-app analysis videos, the app allows you to do much more than just look at the data. So you may not "need it" - but you should use it to get the best experience. IF, that is, you want actual insight into the actual racing.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait - I thought you were a "hater", Clew. I'm confused now.

In any case I'm just doing what I do as always.

Of course, the viewership numbers clearly show that this is where people come when they want to actually know something about SailGP. As long as that's the case, I'll keep giving the masses what they want: Astute Analysis and Witty Banter.

Heh.

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Wait - I thought you were a "hater", Clew. I'm confused now.

In any case I'm just doing what I do as always.

Of course, the viewership numbers clearly show that this is where people come when they want to actually know something about SailGP. As long as that's the case, I'll keep giving the masses what they want: Astute Analysis and Witty Banter.

Heh.

Thanks for the good wishes I am glad you are glad I'm ok too. Heh. 

Given SGP is too hard for mere mortals to understand or KNOW good thing you are here. AAWB

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Thanks for the good wishes I am glad you are glad I'm ok too. Heh. 

Given SGP is too hard for mere mortals to understand or KNOW good thing you are here. AAWB

 

Well, as you know, I'm always happy to help out. And I am pretty awesome, but let's not get carried away here...

...I hope you're able to get out of the office without anyone noticing that Annoying At Work Boner.

SailGP and I seem to have that effect on pretty much everyone. Heh.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Though you can see the why in my scintillating in-app analyses of the racing, I thought it would be interesting to see the what of the starts, first marks, and finishes to get a sense of which teams are demonstrating strength or suck...

RACE 1

JPN and DEN down low, most everyone else up high...

1416653895_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_44_13PM.png.1893ff5354c060204e0e118db7ebb124.png

AUS was slamming, but got totally shut down, NZL looking strong...

278318235_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_44_35PM.png.e98810ee1ee4c2dd39c93e371258bb19.png

485085020_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_44_54PM.png.494739f86963180917e8f0f70e57ed72.png

...and then a fairly good job holding on against what appears to be the 2 strongest teams right now.

1646651449_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_45_18PM.png.c4a2d1e6c68a8fa7748febed805f50ea.png

At least the Kiwis didn't suck to the level of Bermuda. That was embarrassing - especially for the  supposedly "best sailors in the world".

 

RACE 2

Same general mix of chargers, but JPN is now up high, with USA in about the same spot and NZL down lower.

972015119_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_45_36PM.png.186029d07acf963a7661ff1916293a5f.png

AUS still sucking and FRA gets left in the dust.

1413871435_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_46_04PM.png.5bbdcd00c881f2f99b834db59d28c069.png

The NZL suck is coming back with a vengeance as AUS starts remembering how to race.

1668514351_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_46_45PM.png.d0c113da432b56ee811f5b0f135d2194.png

What the...where did ESP come from? What happened to USA? Ah, the analysis.

And the NZL suck is starting to go supernova again. DEN is peeing all over them.

 

RACE 3

We lose the helicopter feed right at the start. Definitely not the greatest viewing experience, but hey...

Same general positioning as last race, except AUS drops down to try something different.

1148257116_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_47_12PM.png.aa497c1a88775165911536322e6a108f.png

NZL continues to start well (at least that's something). USA, GBR and AUS are slamming this one as well...

555263627_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_47_30PM.png.e0456341cdb218a206adb96bf56168e3.png

But FRA and JPN, which were both way behind at the start, blow past NZL, GBR, and AUS - as NZL starts their predictable run to the bottom.

1140476649_ScreenShot2021-06-23at12_47_51PM.png.c3781a1b04162f8d67e75c2f168e3f4d.png

And things stay that way for the rest of the race. This one wasn't as exciting as the first two. Maybe that was because of the lack of aerial footage. But even the tactics weren't as fun as the first 2.

On to day 2 soon!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/22/2021 at 5:48 AM, smackdaddy said:

That gives me a 404. You mean this?

https://sailgpinsights.com/

In any case, as I show in my astute in-app analysis videos, the app allows you to do much more than just look at the data. So you may not "need it" - but you should use it to get the best experience. IF, that is, you want actual insight into the actual racing.

Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

I am using it to get all the Data!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

I am using it to get all the Data!

It's showing just a "blank" landing page with logos. Is the data only available during the racing? I'll have to check it out next event.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I have a bit more time now over the holiday weekend to do the in-app analyses of races 4-6 in Taranto.

With the "Defending America's Cup Champions" Burling and Tuke (tails firmly tucked between legs) leaving behind the abject humiliation they faced against actual top tier professional sailing talent in SailGP, to go see if they can win something/anything against some poor amateurs in the Olympics - we'll see how the Swiss continue to improve on the "NZ" F50.

Heh.

Then it will be just about time for Plymouth to Rock!

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the process of putting up the R4 analysis for Taranto and will have 5 and 6 in the next day or two.

With Slingsby, you have to wonder if he's been mentally broken. AUS is just doing horribly. They have definitely had mechanical issues - yes - but even Slingers admits that's not the only problem. And it's becoming really evident in these Taranto races.

He's losing time to right the AUS ship before he becomes just another NZL. What a fall.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

In the process of putting up the R4 analysis for Taranto and will have 5 and 6 in the next day or two.

With Slingsby, you have to wonder if he's been mentally broken. AUS is just doing horribly. They have definitely had mechanical issues - yes - but even Slingers admits that's not the only problem. And it's becoming really evident in these Taranto races.

He's losing time to right the AUS ship before he becomes just another NZL. What a fall.

I'll guess it's training time, it lack thereof. Have they had time on water? Is there transparency as to who gets training time and why?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think on-boat training time is listed anywhere publicly. At least not that I've found. From interviews, etc. the training time is distributed "evenly" across teams and weighted according to experience, etc.

So, being S1 champion, Slingsby can't expect to get more training time on the F50 than, say, DEN. He'll get less...as it should be. The goal is to keep things as equal as possible across the fleet, so the talent and race-time ability of the team becomes the winning or losing factor.

In the case of AUS, they're losing despite their advanced experience and team continuity. They have definitely had technical issues. But unlike JPN in S1, they've not been able to overcome the obstacles and still win.

Something is going on. And I have a feeling it's in Slingsby's head. It's a lot of pressure. He's got to get sponsorship to survive. And that's hard to do when you're losing.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

the training time is distributed "evenly" across teams and weighted according to experience, etc

So there's a Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, allocating who gets time on water, who doesn't. At some point, that gets really annoying; are the winners winning or is the wizard dictating?

Something is going on.

Tom just nailed it on the moth. Nobody was telling him whether he could or could not go out and practice.

A big cat, coordinating foiling at fast speed needs a ton of training time. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, Martin, I've seen this "complaint" a lot. And I just don't get the whinge. I think it's really misguided.

For example, here is the closest thing I've found to public information on the concept of balancing things across the teams...

https://sailgp.com/general/sailgp-nationality-rules/

Quote

But our eight teams are NOT fully made up of athletes from that team's country, with nationality rules in place to make the racing fairer and more competitive.

That last part is a core driver of SailGP and has been from the beginning. The reason for that is clear - it makes for far more exciting racing as we've clearly seen already this season (especially compared to the snoozefest that was AC36). To that point, look at how DEN is improving - due in large part to the on-boat training time they got as a new team. Performance has been up and down across the board. There here not been one single dominant team - due to money or technology. And that's the point. It's about the talent.

In the case of the nationality rules, the distinction between "Developed Sailing Countries" and "Other Countries" means the option to have more non-nationals on the team to help make the boat more competitive...like ESP...and, I suppose like we saw in Taranto, NZL bringing on the Swiss to be more competitive (heh).

And SailGP has made clear this is temporary...

Quote

SailGP intends to tighten the nationality rules as we promote the development of sailing talent worldwide, and by Season 4 the rules state that Other Countries must have parity with Developed Sailing Countries in regards to the amount of crew who must be nationals of the country that the boat represents.

So I'm not sure how you see this as some "Wizard of Oz" thing. It all makes perfect sense if you are trying to level the playing field as much as possible to make the racing more exciting.

Again, I've not seen those detailed rules. Likely only the actual teams have. But they know what they are getting into and though they all say they'd love more time on the F50s - the racing is the proof in the pudding that the concept is working as intended. It's providing a very exciting, competitive racing product for digital broadcast. Exactly what our sport has needed for a very long time.

One thing I'd be interested in is whether these teams are allowed by the rules to build/buy their own training platform (e.g. - an old AC45/50, etc.) and do their own training. I wouldn't see why not. But that would be up the them and their sponsors - if/when they get them. I could definitely see that SailGP wants to protect its assets right now in the existing fleet of F50s. It's early days. But in the future?

To your point, Slingsby can easily buy a moth and do whatever he wants. If he can swing a sponsor, maybe he can by an old AC50 and train all he wants as well and dominate again. That's up to him...and Australia.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you don't get enough baseline training to get back in sync with the boat, and reconnect as a team. These guys haven't sailed the boat for several months. And this isn't a laser, it's a damn tricky beast. You can't just hop on and ride the bicycle.

So the wizard of oz can have good intentions but when top teams are dramatically off the pace, I call bs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, martin 'hoff said:

If you don't get enough baseline training to get back in sync with the boat, and reconnect as a team. These guys haven't sailed the boat for several months. And this isn't a laser, it's a damn tricky beast. You can't just hop on and ride the bicycle.

So the wizard of oz can have good intentions but when top teams are dramatically off the pace, I call bs.

"BS" for what? The fact that AUS is having a slump? That USA and JPN took each other out? That ESP is actually leading the championship simply because they've sailed consistently*? Maybe I just don't understand your philosophy of what's "fair" and what's not.

At the end of pier, you're welcome to believe whatever you want. But I think you're seriously reaching here. There is no Bigfoot behind the curtain. Just rules, consistent with the explanation for why they are in force. And everyone is playing by them. And we're the better for it...because performance is the star.

(*In my next analysis of R5 I've generated a chart showing the performance of all the teams across all the races in Bermuda and Taranto. It's pretty clear that strong, consistent sailing is what wins SailGP. And that's just as it should be.)

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

There is no Bigfoot behind the curtain. Just rules,

Let's have them out, then! Can I see the rules, and what training time has been allocated per team, and why?

And to be clear, if the priority is a good show, use handicaps. You get close racing, even though some teams have a lot of experience.

If the priority is top performance, you don't use handicaps.

That's a real tradeoff – SailGP is choosing a good show, using what seem to be ad-hoc handicaps, and sometimes the best teams lose because of the artificial disadvantage posed by the handicap.

When a clearly top team has a shitty race, we can't tell if it's because of the handicap, or because they're truly off their game. But! It's a good show.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know what to tell you on getting your hands on the rules. Maybe they are out there and I just haven't found them. But I'm interested too. Just for different reasons I suppose.

I just don't think you're making a logical argument. I think the worst possible thing one could do for Gran Prix racing is apply some kind of PHRF. The entire intent is to make everything as level as possible for race time. Then whoever wins, wins. It's all down to their talent and performance in the race.

What you're describing sounds horrible. When "close racing" is only seen on the leaderboard - not the course - because of handicapping - you have an extremely boring event from a viewing perspective. This is professional sporting - not amateur beer canning.

Also, I don't think these rules of boat time or crew nationality are ad-hoc at all. They are perfectly logical - IF the point is to present close, exciting racing on the course. And if you look at the races - their system is obviously working. No question about that.

Maybe you can give me specific examples of "top teams" doing poorly because of specific "handicaps". I'd be interested in that. But, though I've specifically heard guys like Nathan, Tom, Jimmy, and Ben talk about wishing they had more training time on the boat (who doesn't) - they are not attributing their poor showings to that. They attribute lack of performance to poor calls, crashes, technical issues, etc. on the course at race time. Again, this is according to them.

So, you just need to look at the actual data to understand that your argument doesn't hold up. What you seem to want already exists - amateur PHRF racing. SailGP definitely ain't that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They are not blaming lack of training time because they like the gig. It's PR.

Australia is the example your are looking for.

Training time is a handicap system, no two ways about it. At this point, one with zero transparency.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, actually, you're wrong on that one. Look at the data. AUS dominated Bermuda. Then they crashed and burned in Taranto - partly due to technical issues, but mostly due to bad calls - by Slingsby's own admission.

If on-boat training time was the culprit as you want to make it out to be, AUS certainly wouldn't have performed so consistently well against all the same teams in Bermuda.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/6/2021 at 4:40 AM, smackdaddy said:

I don't think on-boat training time is listed anywhere publicly. At least not that I've found. From interviews, etc. the training time is distributed "evenly" across teams and weighted according to experience, etc.

So, being S1 champion, Slingsby can't expect to get more training time on the F50 than, say, DEN. He'll get less...as it should be. The goal is to keep things as equal as possible across the fleet, so the talent and race-time ability of the team becomes the winning or losing factor.

In the case of AUS, they're losing despite their advanced experience and team continuity. They have definitely had technical issues. But unlike JPN in S1, they've not been able to overcome the obstacles and still win.

Something is going on. And I have a feeling it's in Slingsby's head. It's a lot of pressure. He's got to get sponsorship to survive. And that's hard to do when you're losing.

 

Major issue is they’ve lost their experienced flight controller temporarily. They’re not easily replaced. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, WetnWild said:

Major issue is they’ve lost their experienced flight controller temporarily. They’re not easily replaced. 

Ah - I'd not seen that. Explains a lot. Thanks for the update WnW.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay I just put up the Taranto-R5 in-app analysis. Some great stuff in this one. I take about 10 minutes in this video to run through the performance data for the teams across the Bermuda races and first four in Taranto so you can see how we are where we are. And I put together an interactive graph with that data that you can play with to compare teams.

What's clear is that SailGP rewards consistent performance. That's why ESP in on top. No question. Robertson is doing a hell of a job sailing that F50. Everyone else is all over the map. Skill is what wins. Every time.

Some fantastic racing in R5...the golden shower by JPN all over a whimpering ESP at the start. Utter humiliation. Then Outteridge powering back up the fleet to take the win. The battle between ESP and NZL for the third spot in the final. DEN starting to shine and the "AC Champions" NZL continuing to suck.

Great racing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, tbm said:

Bangin the corners reviews the Bermudian leg of SailGP 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12H_xTDID1yACiK5SfU2L_fEwYGACX2ZB

Jody is a freakin' legend. I think it was a big mistake to replace him.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that hump. Here are some specific take-aways...

Quote

Do you consider the F50s very difficult to master?
They are really very specific, they are unlike any other boats, to control the boat, you only use small knobs and buttons, it is only a question of operating logically, you have to combine together smartly and efficiently, as everyone presses buttons at the same time during the 15-20 seconds of a maneuver and still a few boats are sharper in terms of coordination. If there is anything in sailing that is coming closer to Formula 1, it would really be SailGP, it's completely different there are so many settings, options ...

Yet you are only allowed very little training, so how do you go about learning all these things and improving?
This is true, but one thing that is super well done at SailGP is that all data from all boats are shared. As there is loads of data output, there are more than 1000 parameters on the boat, so you can know and learn everything about everything. But of course the difficulty is precisely knowing what to watch. And understanding the data, obviously you don't have the reasoning behind all of these actions and numbers, it is learning what and why things are better and faster. After that, you don't necessarily have to just copy everything, but we all take a lot of inspiration and ideas from others.

"When you reach 50 knots
you don't take the time to enjoy it"

You have sailed on a lot of different foiling boats is the adrenaline level here much more?
The peculiarity of this boat is that it goes extremely fast, but in the end, when you reach 50 knots, you don't take the time to enjoy it, because you know that at this speed, the most important things is not doing anything stupid. You have to be extremely focused on what you are doing and not ask yourself too many questions because you could scare yourself! And if you start thinking about something else, lose focus momentarily, you can miss the half a second that can have dramatic consequences. So it requires extreme concentration, but it's the same when you're sailing an Ultim at 45 knots in the middle of the night in difficult sea conditions!

You changed jobs this year, since you had to give up your spot as a wing trimmer to Leigh McMillan to become a grinder and sail trimmer before, why?
Last year after the stage in Sydney (the only race before the cancellation of the season), where we had a poor performance, Russell (Coutts, CEO of the circuit) suggested to Billy (Besson) to change things. Billy then explained to me that I needed to change roles to bring in someone with more experience and a different point of view.

How did you take that idea?
It's never easy because in terms of the job I was doing, they had nothing to complain about: the problems in Sydney were due to a collision, a start where we got shut out a break and a job sheet break, there was not much attributable to the wing. As I say with all the data we have, if I had done anything which was not so good with the wing trim it would have been obvious. But really there was big push from Russell to change something. Billy was pissed off, he wanted me to stay in the same role. For my part, either I was leaving the team, when I had been a bit fed up with Billy, or I carried on. I chose to accept becoming a grinder, and once I accepted, the idea for me was to move the team forward, I wasn't going to upset the mood otherwise and especially as Leigh really is a super competent and good, friendly, experienced guy.

 "The project where I had the most fun
was the America's Cup"

Does that mean that the teams come under pressure from Russell?
Yes it does but you have to consider that is normal. This is a circuit that largely works with funds from Larry Ellison, who Russell is representing and he runs it, it is his circuit. But Russell is an extremely gifted guy who has put together a lot of winning projects and he has a a real vision. The project where I had the most fun, where I gave myself 200%, was the America's Cup with Groupama Team France. However, we know very well that a Cup project in France is complicated. So SailGP allows us French guys to participate in a circuit at an incredible level, on a very level playing field against the biggest names in the world. This year you will see that we have picked up a few big names that have so far been missing from the circuit, the Spithills and Burlings of this world... all the stars of the America's Cup are here, it is an exceptional project.

As Matthieu himself said - this "influence" is normal. It's no secret that FRA did horribly in S1 - and is still struggling - but improving at least. So it was obviously good "influence".

The bottom line - that all the teams are fully aware of - is that if you want to be in SailGP you have to be competitive. It's the only way you will gain sponsors, to then be able to have the autonomy everyone wants. Otherwise, you are running on LERC's dime and they will make the calls to ensure the success of the league - replacing your team if necessary.

I don't think that is in any way mysterious or nefarious. Especially due to the fact that, as Matthieu says, all the data is available to everyone. So what does your team do with that data? Improve or not?

Finally, he reiterates the point I've been making...that unlike the AC, SailGP is the opportunity to compete "at an incredible level, on a very level playing field against the biggest names in the world".

Hard to see the downsides.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the teams don't have Independence to do what they think is right re performance, they are all under the control of LE/RC.

That's like just one owner controlling all the F1 teams. Very much a Wizard of Oz.

It's all tilted to a good show. But it's far from competition as we know it.

These are amazing machines, and I'll probably keep watching but it's very much an arbitrary handicap fleet with LE/RC pulling the strings.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Despite all facts to the contrary, you seem pretty fixated on this notion of yours, Martin, so I'll let you have it.

But I will leave you with this: When the Man Behind The Curtain is saying to each team, "I'll fund you and give you every tool necessary to succeed on a level playing field that I'm providing. BUT I very much want - and expect - you be successful enough to find your own sponsors - so that you can do whatever you want in terms of preparing your team to be even more successful."

You might need to go back and watch the Wizard of Oz again and rethink the fable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@smackdaddy

So, apparently the reason Ainslie didn't sail in Taranto and won't sail in Plymouth is that his Wife gave birth to a 2nd Child called Fox I believe. Georgie, Bens Wife must have been 4-5 months pregnant after Bermuda was over.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, Plymouth has sold out both days - and will have over 1K boats on the water. SailGP just keeps growing. Very cool.

Oh, and this is one of the main reasons SailGP will succeed where the AC just failed miserably...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/125583116/multimilliondollar-upgrade-begins-to-prepare-lyttelton-for-sailgp

$4M for readying the venue vs. $250M? Which investment do you think is going to show a return? Well, we already know that answer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've tried really hard to follow sailGP but it's impossible: Nothing live on YouTube or any streaming platform i can see ; the app is soooooo slow and unusable ; live audio but you can't see the main video feed ; lots of boat cameras but they have no audio; the umpire view has audio but it's nearly unwatchable as they move it around too much.

then the next day the app doesn't have the score board and only a short article with the results summary. There is no video of the black flag event available.

Guess i have to wait an unspecified time for something on YouTube or maybe i just give up.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Terror - pretty serious foul on USA as they were coming into the start. Robertson has been trying that high-end barge for several races now and was just tired of not pulling that trigger I suppose. The Black Flag was deserved - although I respect Phil for going for it. It was close. I'll cover it in detail in my upcoming in-app analysis.

sfi - I don't have that experience at all with the app on my iPad. I don't know what to tell you. But you might want to watch my video walkthrough of how the app works. Some of what you're saying just doesn't sound right.

BTW - today's replay is already up in the app.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WetnWild said:

Blatant barge

I saw a brief bit of footage but you can’t tell if he’s on port or starboard coming in and if he flicks across to starboard or port at the line. I’m guessing he comes in on port, hence the black flag?

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Terrorvision said:

I saw a brief bit of footage but you can’t tell if he’s on port or starboard coming in and if he flicks across to starboard or port at the line. I’m guessing he comes in on port, hence the black flag?

All boats on starboard, Spain tried to barge the pin and was penalised accordingly

Link to post
Share on other sites

@smackdaddy

The British SailGP Team did some "Damage Control" on the 2nd Day finishing 4th Overall in Plymouth which makes them TIED with Winners AUS on the Overall Season Leaderboard with 22 Points.E6l2UQTXoAMd9-x?format=jpg&name=medium

Not a bad Place to be in with Ben coming back in Aarhus next month. 3 Points clear of arch-rivals Spithill & Outerridge and 5 Points ahead of Burling.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Barged at the pin, somewhere (sorry can't remember where) there is on-board video from USA clearly showing they had to bear away to avoid collision. Black flag means "dangerous driving". Seriously. https://sailgp.com/general/sailgp-penalties/

Barging at the pin has been ESP's preferred starting tactic for some while. About time they were discouraged from it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2021 at 4:01 PM, sfigone said:

I've tried really hard to follow sailGP but it's impossible: Nothing live on YouTube or any streaming platform i can see ; the app is soooooo slow and unusable ; live audio but you can't see the main video feed ; lots of boat cameras but they have no audio; the umpire view has audio but it's nearly unwatchable as they move it around too much.

then the next day the app doesn't have the score board and only a short article with the results summary. There is no video of the black flag event available.

Guess i have to wait an unspecified time for something on YouTube or maybe i just give up.

 

Is the live broadcast geoblocked in Australia? It's live on YouTube in Canada. At least I think so as it's up by the time I wake up in the morning. I thought the broadcast was improved this time and the lead up to the black flag incident was awesome as it was all shown from above so there was some steady sphincter tightening as it reached its denoument. I can't understand why they would make it hard to watch in Australia. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Is the live broadcast geoblocked in Australia? It's live on YouTube in Canada. At least I think so as it's up by the time I wake up in the morning. I thought the broadcast was improved this time and the lead up to the black flag incident was awesome as it was all shown from above so there was some steady sphincter tightening as it reached its denoument. I can't understand why they would make it hard to watch in Australia. 

Both days were live on Foxtel in AUS. Great coverage. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Is the live broadcast geoblocked in Australia? It's live on YouTube in Canada. At least I think so as it's up by the time I wake up in the morning. I thought the broadcast was improved this time and the lead up to the black flag incident was awesome as it was all shown from above so there was some steady sphincter tightening as it reached its denoument. I can't understand why they would make it hard to watch in Australia. 

Yeah, Geoblocked on YouTube in Australia. I signed up for the Kayo Freebies and get to watch it live or on demand later. Not a bad option...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic last day of racing. That final was a barn-burner. It really showed the advantage to the 3-boat race...exciting all the way to the line.

In-app run-down coming soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@smackdaddy

Agreed! I was on the edge of my Seat during that Final. I feel for Spithill though. The Aussies gave them the Opening they need by messing up their gybe on the 1st Run but the USA Team couldn't captalize on it. You don't get those Chances very often since Slingsby doesn't have a habit making mistakes very often. You have to take it from him if you want to win. I am very impressed how far the French have become this Season.

The next Venue Aarhus is an interesting one. Looking at the geographical location of Aarhus we could either have similar conditions to Taranto & Plymouth (light wind) if the breeze comes from the SSE or SE OR we could have similar conditions to Bermuda if the wind comes from the North Sea and funnels over Denmark.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah - this is turning into a hell of a season already. And I think two important lessons are:

1. With identical boats, these teams are very closely matched...which makes for great racing.

2. Consistency is what wins. And in that regard it make Ben's dominant run in Sydney at the start of last year just that much more impressive.

I look forward to Aarhus. It just keeps getting better and better.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Yeah - this is turning into a hell of a season already. And I think two important lessons are:

1. With identical boats, these teams are very closely matched...which makes for great racing.

2. Consistency is what wins. And in that regard it make Ben's dominant run in Sydney at the start of last year just that much more impressive.

I look forward to Aarhus. It just keeps getting better and better.

To be perfectly honest with you I would prefer a little bit more wind in Aarhus! USA, Spain & Japan looking good in the light stuff. I think the Brits and the Aussies + possibly the New Zealanders would be preferring more wind.

Going to be interesting how the young Spanish Driver Jordi Xammar handles the F50. He is supposed to replace Phil Robertson at the Helm of the Spanish Team in Denmark.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent yesterday afternoon on a spectator boat and it's the first time I've seen an F50 close up. 

There are a lot of things I don't like about the format however seeing them gybing, tacking and reaching past within 100ft is brilliant, they're very impressive in the flesh.

Would recommend anyone who has the chance to get on the water at one of the events to do it.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  

Here's Jimmy's explanation...

https://www.redbull.com/ke-en/jimmy-spithill-sailgp-great-britian-blog

Quote

The alarm bells were ringing as soon as we started racing on Day 2 at the Great Britain Sail Grand Prix in Plymouth. For some reason, the boat was asymmetric and we were struggling to set it up on port tack. We knew we had an issue with our starboard rudder, we just didn’t know how big a problem that would turn out to be.

If I recall, it was the port rudder that sheared in Taranto?

And he's spot on here...

Quote

SailGP is the strongest lineup ever seen in this sport and the limits are being pushed on a daily basis. I believe every team will have their fair share of tough moments over the season and being as consistent as possible is key.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Early days yet there DtM. No question Slingers is a monster. But consistency is what wins SailGP. And we just haven't seen that out of him yet. I think it's going to be a knife fight all the way to the finish. I'll be very interested to see the change in GBR's performance when Ben comes back on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Much as all the ultra-nationalist bombast on the AC forum thread is amusing, I think we really have to wait until next season to really see the state of play. What with the Olympics and the Ainsle baby, people's attentions are a bit elsewhere but that will settle down and then we will see. I would argue that the main thing we have learned so far is that the boat is fundamentally really good, and can deliver proper racing in a variety of conditions, particularly in the lighter wind venues where races make financial sense. And it is therefore clearly attractive to the top sailing talent in the world, even if they have to work around babies etc. The thing that has to happen now is simply that the series has to stick around long enough to really catch the general sailing imagination. I sincerely hope it does. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a bit different take on it. I think SailGP is offering the world's top sailing talent the opportunity to be CEOs of their own teams - not just sailors. Think about that. Instead of seasonally working for billionaires here and there - this particular SGP billionaire has offered these guys the ability to make their own way. This is a complete disruption of the entire professional sailing pimp-based model.

If BA can recruit and train the best talent, which will then continue to draw INEOS sponsorship, he can stay home with the kids - or race when he wants. Whatever. It's a great gig. Same for any of these guys.

The issue is, these current leading guys are getting long in the tooth. Yes, they are the best in the world - but there is a new generation waiting in the wings. And instead of old guys "competing" for very limited spots at the AC (like we saw with American Magic) - keeping them in the wings - we have the current creme-de-la-creme working to build their own teams...with SailGP going all out to help build that on-ramp for talent.

THIS is the genius of SailGP I think.

 

PS - As for the thread in the AC forum. What a waste of time. This little thread of mine has a ~40:1 view/post ratio. The one over there is like half that (because no one cares). So people are absolutely following along here...as usual...even in this sleepy little MHA forum. This is where the substance is. That's good enough for me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I very much agree that this is a great opportunity for these established sailors but it must eventually hinge on being able to arrange their own sponsorship, so the support does have to stick around to develop the series' popularity. This hopefully will head more towards the French model, which is sponsor driven and therefore absolutely world class, as opposed to acting upon the nautical whims of aging billionaires by building 125' racing monohulls. I'd actually go further and posit that all this anglo focus on maxi monohulls reflects a kind of Edwardian, forelock tugging deference to the upper classes, who turn out largely to be nitwits. It's not good for democracy. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

See FO - you know how to bring the "A-Game" to a thread!.

"...reflects a kind of Edwardian, forelock tugging deference to the upper classes, who turn out largely to be nitwits."

Touché mon ami.

And you're absolutely right about the necessity of sponsorship for survival. That's been made abundantly clear, some wilting violets would errantly say "too harshly" so, from the beginning by LERC. At the same time, LERC have gone above and beyond in creating a pinnacle global event that runs most of the year in the best locales on the planet - which should tickle the fancy of most any sponsor who wants some global exposure a'la F1.

So, it's all up to the teams to find those sponsors to then enjoy that independence and wealth - and then, of course, perform well enough to maintain it.

BTW - why doesn't FRA have a presenting sponsor yet? Where the hell is Carrefour?

Link to post
Share on other sites

In-app analysis vids for Plymouth going up. If you watched R1 live, you likely missed the knife-fight between ESP and JPN at the last gate. I predict someone is going to get punched in the face before this season is over!

Great stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@smackdaddy

The Danish SailGP Team will have something to cheer about as they prepare themselves for their Home Event in Aarhus.

Anne-Marie Rindom, who is one of the Female Athletes on the Team won Gold today in the Laser Radial Class in Tokyo.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, as I go back though these Plymouth races doing the in-app analysis, it's clear how far DEN has come since Sydney. They are really starting to frequent the middle of the pack and notch a podium here and there. And hell, they are ahead of "the best sailors in the world" - the Kiwis. Go figure.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, it's interesting how the Olympics results are pretty closely aligned with the SailGP - with a couple of outliers...

Olympics

2145158096_ScreenShot2021-08-05at9_20_26PM.thumb.png.559d07646b2159f2cbcfab5fe8a9ca23.png

SailGP

1431838694_ScreenShot2021-08-05at9_22_49PM.thumb.png.5f53fd17582000cca552a9e3f8ca18fc.png

When you compare, several things come into focus:

1. It's pretty clear where the best sailors in the world are: AUS, GBR, FRA.

2. Spithill and Outteridge are monsters - wherever they take their talent.

3. Robertson is putting ESP on the map.

4. DEN are going to continue to improve. They are a team to watch.

5. NZL can build really fast boats for the AC, but they obviously aren't that hot when it comes to actually sailing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Check out the Nacra 17 finals and gold fleet races that are available on youtube.

The Italians are quite good, and so are the Spanish.  Germany, Norway ,and Denmark also kicking butt. 

We can't leave out Argentina either.

The fast boats are hard to follow with the cameras, and it's pretty hard to follow how the race unfold for most of the boats.  Cameras tend to point at capsizes and failures, making it even harder to see what happens with the boats in tough competition.

watching them move through the water when they aren't showing the cartoon(virtual eye) is about the best i can hope for.

i wonder how many nacra 17s could be bought for the price of hauling the 50 fleet in and out of the water during 1 event?

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, david r said:

i wonder how many nacra 17s could be bought for the price of hauling the 50 fleet in and out of the water during 1 event?

A hell of a lot I reckon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@smackdaddy

British Gold Medalist in the 470er Class Hannah Mills reaffirmed that Tokyo 2020(2021) was her last Olympic Campaign.

Mills trialed with Bens SailGP Team in Bermuda so I think there is a reasonable strong chance she is going to end up on the British SailGP come Aarhus!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

@smackdaddy

British Gold Medalist in the 470er Class Hannah Mills reaffirmed that Tokyo 2020(2021) was her last Olympic Campaign.

Mills trialed with Bens SailGP Team in Bermuda so I think there is a reasonable strong chance she is going to end up on the British SailGP come Aarhus!

That would be awesome. She definitely deserves a shot. I really look forward to seeing the women get on these boats. I loved having Marie in the mix and was sad to see her go. But this really is the battleground that simply tests skill and talent.

I wonder where the first women will plug in? Will it be wing trimmer? Flight controller? As Marie showed, it's a very picky and demanding skillset.

Link to post
Share on other sites