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Sean

A warning for Dems

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This is a must read piece for my elk. 

https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/editorials/2021/02/07/Marcy-Kaptur-warning-Congress-House-Government-Politics/stories/202102070118

Excerpt -

Marcy Kaptur is the longest-serving woman in the current Congress.

She has also been in the U.S. House of Representatives longer than any woman has served there, in all of U.S. history.

She came to the Congress in 1983.

She is 74 and has been a Democrat her entire voting life.

You might think she is worth listening to.

As it happens, she has a message for her party: Wake up.

Wake up or you will lose the House in the next election and maybe not regain it for many years.

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I think it's relatively well written, and while I have never heard of Rep. Kaptur, I agree with the message to wake up.

But this piece is an excellent example of how the media is in fact dominated by right-wing voices: "A devout Catholic, she cannot share the obsessive enthusiasm of her party for abortion"

Really?

(from the link above)

Marcy Kaptur’s warning

the Editorial Board... Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
 
Feb 7, 2021   ...12:00 AM
 
 

Marcy Kaptur is the longest-serving woman in the current Congress.

She has also been in the U.S. House of Representatives longer than any woman has served there, in all of U.S. history.

She came to the Congress in 1983.

She is 74 and has been a Democrat her entire voting life.

You might think she is worth listening to.

As it happens, she has a message for her party: Wake up.

Wake up or you will lose the House in the next election and maybe not regain it for many years.

Wake up or you will lose the working class to the Republicans, for good.

It is already happening.

Ms. Kaptur points out that leadership in the House is dominated by members from the two coasts and from wealthy districts.

A political realignment is taking place. Rural America is already Republican and, more specifically, Trumpian. Now more and more working-class and working-poor Americans are leaving the Democratic Party and voting Republican. Why? Because they feel their plight, their reality, has at least been recognized by Donald Trump’s GOP.

Mind you, Ms. Kaptur thinks Donald Trump did nothing for these voters, and never seriously intended to. She also thinks he is psychologically “unbalanced.” But she recognizes what he recognized: what has happened to manufacturing and the working class in places like Toledo, Lorain, Lordstown and Youngstown, Wheeling, the Mon Valley, as well as parts of Greater Cleveland, and Buffalo, and large swaths of Greater Detroit.

She represents a district characterized by economic decline — Toledo, Lorain and parts of Greater Cleveland.

But these places and the people who live in them, says Ms. Kaptur, are largely invisible to her Democratic colleagues in the House who are busy forming caucuses around identity politics. They don’t get her part of America and they aren’t interested. She says that one colleague told her people should just move away.

And there is no one like her, no one from a district like hers, in Democratic leadership. “It’s been very hard for regions like mine, which have had great economic attrition, to get fair standing” in leadership, she says.

Instead, Ms. Kaptur says her colleagues tell her, upfront, that they don’t get her or her voters.

Why don’t people just move away from a place like Lorain, Ohio? Well, maybe because they were born there and their families are there.

Ms. Kaptur still lives in the same simple house where she grew up, in Toledo.

She is an old-fashioned Roosevelt-Truman Democrat. But does she feel like a minority, a lonely voice, in the House caucus and in her party? “Yes, I do,” she says.

Well, Ms. Kaptur is not going to retire or change parties or become a congresswoman without a party. She will keep on, and keep fighting for what she believes. Her latest cause is to establish an infectious disease unit in the National Institutes of Health.

But she, like many Democrats, is disillusioned and alienated.

A devout Catholic, she cannot share the obsessive enthusiasm of her party for abortion. She is for women’s rights and rights to privacy, but not for government funding of abortion or late-term abortion.

She is an environmentalist, passionate about saving Lake Erie, but she also wants to save the auto industry — all that is left of industry in Toledo or Detroit.

Cultural questions are tough ones, morally and politically, but most people seek a balance.

And, no small thing, Ms. Kaptur has been seriously disrespected by her party. She has been denied a major committee chairmanship after all these years — 20 terms in the House. Think about that and what it means to disrespect that.

“I think economics can bind us. I think that when we divide into too many subgroups, we lose the overarching theme,” says the congresswoman.

She’s right. Dead right.

The overarching theme should be opportunity, not identity.

Democrats in the House need to respect Marcy Kaptur, respect the people she represents, and respect what she identifies as the right and resonant overarching theme: opportunity, jobs. They need to counter the GOP’s appeal to the working class, and not simply surrender the field.

Ms. Kaptur has watched her beloved Ohio, once the ultimate swing state, become more and more deeply red. The Dems will lose a lot more people if they do not start to listen to, and represent, middle America. They will wish they had first listened to Marcy Kaptur.

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Republicunts own the media. 
 

Republicunts convince fools the media is Commie

There are a lot of fools 

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Just like the Republicans, the Democrats serve the interests of Wall street, not Main street.We desperately need the two major parties to splinter.

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The democRATS would be wise to listen to Rep. Kaptur...and Rep. Tim Ryan on this subject.  They should focus on the economic concerns of the working class. It's alright to pander to Wall St., with the understanding that the interests of the working class come first and that the rising tide will lift all boats, not just the Best Yachts. That would set them apart from The Party. 

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Just from what I hear from a friend who lives in Lorain, Ohio, the major problems that are not being addressed are mostly homelessness, hunger, poverty, and drug abuse.

He asked (As a homeless shelter advocate) for help from Ms. Kaptur.  Apparently she had some staffer ask the city govt. to look in to it.The result was that the city decided to close down the shelter.... In February (several years ago). A fierce public debate ensued, and the shelter got enough private funding to re-open until May.

 She may be a Democrat, but she seems just fine with where she is, as long as she doesn't have to lift a finger.

 

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Marcy is my Congress-Critter 

She used to be pretty progressive, but has drifted right. 

Many of the statements in the article are Reich Wing talking points . . 

for example, that the Dems do "identity politics" - while failing to mention the 

white nationalist identity politics of the Reich. 

Or that the Dems have abandoned the white working class .  . 

But who in hell of the GOP or the Reich is in with the fight for $ 15, or M4A, CFPB, or labor rights ???? 

NONE OF THEM 

And note that Kaptur did not write the article - it was the Pitt Post Gazette 

Editorial Board... in 2020 they endorsed Republican Donald Trump for President. 

Dems need advice from that elk ??   Nope 

You'll get much more solid and reasonable criticism of the Dems elsewhere - Common Dreams, Daily Kos, etc. 

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14 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Marcy is my Congress-Critter 

She used to be pretty progressive, but has drifted right. 

Many of the statements in the article are Reich Wing talking points . . 

for example, that the Dems do "identity politics" - while failing to mention the 

white nationalist identity politics of the Reich. 

Or that the Dems have abandoned the white working class .  . 

But who in hell of the GOP or the Reich is in with the fight for $ 15, or M4A, CFPB, or labor rights ???? 

NONE OF THEM 

And note that Kaptur did not write the article - it was the Pitt Post Gazette 

Editorial Board... in 2020 they endorsed Republican Donald Trump for President. 

Dems need advice from that elk ??   Nope 

You'll get much more solid and reasonable criticism of the Dems elsewhere - Common Dreams, Daily Kos, etc. 

Right, worth noting that the Hon.Ms. Kaptur did not write that article, and I noted that it had a decided RWNJ flavoring... however I think that they have a good point that their gal in the House has no real seniority, and they -feel- their grievances reflect a common attitude in their area.

White working class voters do have some real grievances.

Republicans are not going to address them or try to solve them, in fact they're going to make it a lot worse.... but they ARE going to lie their asses off, pandering to FEEE-EEE-EEE-eelingzz!

- DSK

 

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21 hours ago, Sean said:

This is a must read piece for my elk. 

https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/editorials/2021/02/07/Marcy-Kaptur-warning-Congress-House-Government-Politics/stories/202102070118

Excerpt -

Marcy Kaptur is the longest-serving woman in the current Congress.

She has also been in the U.S. House of Representatives longer than any woman has served there, in all of U.S. history.

She came to the Congress in 1983.

She is 74 and has been a Democrat her entire voting life.

You might think she is worth listening to.

As it happens, she has a message for her party: Wake up.

Wake up or you will lose the House in the next election and maybe not regain it for many years.

No shit.

Hubris ends up hurting.  But, it's fun to watch.

 

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This doesn't seem that unlikely. The organizing principle for conservatives is complaint. Now that Democrats are running the show in DC, Republicans/conservatives don't have to defend their boy Shitstain (well, quite as much) and can get back to complaining about Democrats. Complaint is an excellent organizing principle. You don't need accountability when you have complaint.

Republicans complained about Obama after 8 years of Bush, two wars and a ruined economy. They complained about Clinton after balancing the budget. Hell, they complained about Truman after winning the war in the Pacific. Reagan complained about Carter's profligate budget deficits (no, really, he did).

I expect that conservatives will be saying their boy Shitstain wasn't that bad and would have been better if the Democrats had met him half way. Jeff's line was that Democrats forced Republicans to nominate Shitstain by nominating Hillary. The only thing they can't do is hold their boy accountable. The base would never forgive them for that.

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12 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

This doesn't seem that unlikely. The organizing principle for conservatives is complaint. Now that Democrats are running the show in DC, Republicans/conservatives don't have to defend their boy Shitstain (well, quite as much) and can get back to complaining about Democrats. Complaint is an excellent organizing principle. You don't need accountability when you have complaint.

Republicans complained about Obama after 8 years of Bush, two wars and a ruined economy. They complained about Clinton after balancing the budget. Hell, they complained about Truman after winning the war in the Pacific. Reagan complained about Carter's profligate budget deficits (no, really, he did).

I expect that conservatives will be saying their boy Shitstain wasn't that bad and would have been better if the Democrats had met him half way. Jeff's line was that Democrats forced Republicans to nominate Shitstain by nominating Hillary. The only thing they can't do is hold their boy accountable. The base would never forgive them for that.

Trump demonstrated that the majority of the GOP is devoid of any principles, conservative or otherwise. All they care about is power. They are fine with bullshitting cheating and stealing to get it. 

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21 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

This doesn't seem that unlikely. The organizing principle for conservatives is complaint. Now that Democrats are running the show in DC, Republicans/conservatives don't have to defend their boy Shitstain (well, quite as much) and can get back to complaining about Democrats. Complaint is an excellent organizing principle. You don't need accountability when you have complaint.

Republicans complained about Obama after 8 years of Bush, two wars and a ruined economy. They complained about Clinton after balancing the budget. Hell, they complained about Truman after winning the war in the Pacific. Reagan complained about Carter's profligate budget deficits (no, really, he did).

I expect that conservatives will be saying their boy Shitstain wasn't that bad and would have been better if the Democrats had met him half way. Jeff's line was that Democrats forced Republicans to nominate Shitstain by nominating Hillary. The only thing they can't do is hold their boy accountable. The base would never forgive them for that.

And what have the democrats been doing for the last 5 years?

 

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19 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Trump demonstrated that the majority of the GOP is devoid of any principles, conservative or otherwise. All they care about is power. They are fine with bullshitting cheating and stealing to get it. 

I think you can trace that back to the 1954 election. Democrats had been in the White House since 1932 and had done a pretty damn good job. FDR had worked the Great Depression problem, starting with 25% unemployment which was a result of Hoover's austerity. He'd won WWII despite Republican/conservative support for the fascists before the war (Father Coughin, etc). FDR didn't live to see VE or VJ day and Truman managed the victory and the reconstruction of Europe and Japan. But how do Republicans/conservatives compete against that?

By complaining. Indeed that was John Foster Dulles calling card, War or PeaceThey'd never be able to compete with Dems winning WWII and they wanted to get on the score board. The Dulles brothers offered simple wins like Iran + Cuba.

I'm at a loss to think of anything post WWII Republicans/conservatives have done right. Certainly nothing major. Dulles has an airport named after him but I can't think of anything he got remotely right.

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16 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

And what have the democrats been doing for the last 5 years?

 

Hint: not planning and holding and supporting a violent insurrection against the Constitutional gov't of the USA.

- DSK

 

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13 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

I think you can trace that back to the 1954 election. Democrats had been in the White House since 1932 and had done a pretty damn good job. FDR had worked the Great Depression problem, starting with 25% unemployment which was a result of Hoover's austerity. He'd won WWII despite Republican/conservative support for the fascists before the war (Father Coughin, etc). FDR didn't live to see VE or VJ day and Truman managed the victory and the reconstruction of Europe and Japan. But how do Republicans/conservatives compete against that?

By complaining. Indeed that was John Foster Dulles calling card, War or PeaceThey'd never be able to compete with Dems winning WWII and they wanted to get on the score board. The Dulles brothers offered simple wins like Iran + Cuba.

I'm at a loss to think of anything post WWII Republicans/conservatives have done right. Certainly nothing major. Dulles has an airport named after him but I can't think of anything he got remotely right.

I don’t think that the cancer dates back that far. I see it dating back to Gingrich and the shift to seeing those across the aisle as their enemy. That’s what chased me out of The Party. 

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23 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I don’t think that the cancer dates back that far. I see it dating back to Gingrich and the shift to seeing those across the aisle as their enemy. That’s what chased me out of The Party. 

The 50s was Happy Days at the drive in. Recall that McCarthy was operating in the 50s. Yes, Gingrich absolutely professionalized it. Cheney observed that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. But the 30s through the 50s set the table for Gingrich.

Gingrich certainly professionalized things (Contract With America) but he just built on Nixon's Southern Strategy and Reagan's them. Gingrich voted against, campaigned against and then took credit for Clinton's budget and economy while shutting down the government twice. 

But it's hard to understate Father Coughlin. This history gets swept away in the name of WWII's national unity but he was the Rush Limbaugh of his day. The New Deal was the Jew Deal. He openly praised Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito. A real piece of shit. Shitstain has praised Mussolini. I wonder if Limbaugh, Glenn Beck or Gingrich have ever said anything about Coughlin. They certainly owe him a debt.

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3 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

The 50s was Happy Days at the drive in. Recall that McCarthy was operating in the 50s. Yes, Gingrich absolutely professionalized it. Cheney observed that Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. But the 30s through the 50s set the table for Gingrich.

Gingrich certainly professionalized things (Contract With America) but he just built on Nixon's Southern Strategy and Reagan's them. Gingrich voted against, campaigned against and then took credit for Clinton's budget and economy while shutting down the government twice. 

But it's hard to understate Father Coughlin. This history gets swept away in the name of WWII's national unity but he was the Rush Limbaugh of his day. The New Deal was the Jew Deal. He openly praised Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito. A real piece of shit. Shitstain has praised Mussolini. I wonder if Limbaugh, Glenn Beck or Gingrich have ever said anything about Coughlin. They certainly owe him a debt.

I was working up there for the Gingrich revolution, and the tone went really dark then. Before him, they used to do a bipartisan congressional retreat to start a Congress. It was a small thing, but going somewhere that let them actually talk to each other and realize that there are real human beings on the other side made a difference. They could still fight like hell all day, but over actual policy issues. Hell, even Reagan and Tip O’Neill respected each other. 

Somehow we’ve made it from there to seeing democRATS as satanic cannibal pedos. It’s much harder to find common ground this way.
 

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2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I was working up there for the Gingrich revolution, and the tone went really dark then. Before him, they used to do a bipartisan congressional retreat to start a Congress. It was a small thing, but going somewhere that let them actually talk to each other and realize that there are real human beings on the other side made a difference. They could still fight like hell all day, but over actual policy issues. Hell, even Reagan and Tip O’Neill respected each other. 

Somehow we’ve made it from there to seeing democRATS as satanic cannibal pedos. It’s much harder to find common ground this way.

Reagan was only playing a role and otherwise enjoyed the pomp. Like W and Shitstain, he was stupid and uninterested in governance. There isn't much difference between the three. H was well schooled and well trained. Other than his stupid wars, he at least took the job seriously. Clinton wisely continued his post Soviet strategy. Clinton wanted to avoid being another LBJ. He saw foreign entanglement as the stupidity it is rather than the field of glory LBJ and the Dulles Brothers did.

Before Gingrich, Democrats had run the House from 1954 to 1994. And they were collegial. Foley's mistake was to give the Republicans free air time on CSpan thinking they'd make fools of themselves. But it was like Rush Limbaugh saying whatever he wanted with no pushback.

When Gingrich came to DC, as a wonkish Republican environmentalist (!), he saw his only path to power as scorched earth. He didn't have a clue or any interest in governance but he achieved his objective. I can't think of anything he's ever accomplished other than election. A less principled politician is hard to find.

BTW, Gingrich rise was coincidental with Limbaugh, et elk. It's hard to separate them.

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Never forget the national catastrophe that was Dubya . .  

It a testament to the durability of the republic that it could withstand 

his screwing up of just about everything. 

That he is now thought of as an elder statesman makes me 

gag 

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Yet when I say there is a realignment in the works it's "bullshit".

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14 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I don’t think that the cancer dates back that far. I see it dating back to Gingrich and the shift to seeing those across the aisle as their enemy. That’s what chased me out of The Party. 

I'll have to respectfully disagree, this cancer has been in the American system since we dug our toenails into a new continent.  The authoritarians have ALWAYS been among us but as a society we have more or less kept them in check.  This is an encouragement of our "Lessor angels" similar to the 1920's and for the same reasons; social, political, demographic and economic changes disrupting a society in which a large number are barely hanging on. If you can't attack the real cause(big business and the politicians that support them), attack a traditional one, THOSE people.

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7 minutes ago, learningJ24 said:

I'll have to respectfully disagree, this cancer has been in the American system since we dug our toenails into a new continent.  The authoritarians have ALWAYS been among us but as a society we have more or less kept them in check.  This is an encouragement of our "Lessor angels" similar to the 1920's and for the same reasons; social, political, demographic and economic changes disrupting a society in which a large number are barely hanging on. If you can't attack the real cause(big business and the politicians that support them), attack a traditional one, THOSE people.

I should have been more specific. We have always had competing interests, for sure, and factions advocating for theirs. For the most part, we have still been able to maintain comity. There have been other periods during which comity was lacking, but we definitely had it up until the early 90s when Rush and Foxy News started setting up a straw enemy by telling millions what liberals thought. Then the Gingrich revolution taught Congress to see those across the aisle as the enemy. This did not start with Trump, he just took advantage of social media and free publicity to coax the biggest most hateful pieces of shit out into the open. Before Trump the bullshitters were trying to tell us that we were in a post racial society. 

The question I have is, now that we have seen how to get the masses to hate each other, or at least how to get half of the masses to hate the other half, how do we get them to accept each other as countrymen again? 

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2 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I should have been more specific. We have always had competing interests, for sure, and factions advocating for theirs. For the most part, we have still been able to maintain comity. There have been other periods during which comity was lacking, but we definitely had it up until the early 90s when Rush and Foxy News started setting up a straw enemy by telling millions what liberals thought. Then the Gingrich revolution taught Congress to see those across the aisle as the enemy. This did not start with Trump, he just took advantage of social media and free publicity to coax the biggest most hateful pieces of shit out into the open. Before Trump the bullshitters were trying to tell us that we were in a post racial society. 

The question I have is, now that we have seen how to get the masses to hate each other, or at least how to get half of the masses to hate the other half, how do we get them to accept each other as countrymen again? 

Stop calling them deplorable?

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17 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I should have been more specific. We have always had competing interests, for sure, and factions advocating for theirs. For the most part, we have still been able to maintain comity. There have been other periods during which comity was lacking, but we definitely had it up until the early 90s when Rush and Foxy News started setting up a straw enemy by telling millions what liberals thought. Then the Gingrich revolution taught Congress to see those across the aisle as the enemy. This did not start with Trump, he just took advantage of social media and free publicity to coax the biggest most hateful pieces of shit out into the open. Before Trump the bullshitters were trying to tell us that we were in a post racial society. 

The question I have is, now that we have seen how to get the masses to hate each other, or at least how to get half of the masses to hate the other half, how do we get them to accept each other as countrymen again? 

I think one of the reasons we had such comity was that we all agreed on the easy stuff; women should be subordinate to their husbands ,Church was the arbiter of morality , spare the rod spoil the child ,homosexuality was a perversion and black folks should be kept in their place.  When those things were no longer generally agreed upon, that comity began falling apart. It is a fallacy, I believe, to portray our differences as competing INTERESTS since we're seeing people vote, act and organize against their own interests but more likely it is a difference in world views with authoritarianism being close to the foundation of those views. To come to  grips with this, we're going to have to do what we as Americans really suck at, looking deeply at our faults rather than just lauding our virtues.  Our virtues don't need fixed.

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30 minutes ago, Dog said:

Stop calling them deplorable?

A spade is in fact a spade. 

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40 minutes ago, Dog said:

Stop calling them deplorable?

That is bad, yes. I can see where it causes hurt feelings.

Does it justify death threats?

- DSK

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12 minutes ago, Sean said:

A spade is in fact a spade. 

Bullshitters are deplorable.  

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3 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

And got Trump elected.  

Yes, by -3M votes and with Russian interference. Shitstain's voters and non-voting supporters can't blame Hillary. They have to accept responsibility for their own actions.

BTW, you have to compare her use of Deplorables with Obama's use of guns, God and gays (he actually said:

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Obama somehow got elected and McCain was a lot better than Shitstain was.

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1 minute ago, Innocent Bystander said:

And got Trump elected.  

well Hillary used email, so what would we expect? 

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2 hours ago, Sean said:

A spade is in fact a spade. 

I just thought it might help if we stopped with all the personal shit, it was just a thought.

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6 minutes ago, Dog said:

I just thought it might help if we stopped with all the personal shit, it was just a thought.

You stop with the bullshit and we stop with the personal shit. Deal?

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3 minutes ago, mathystuff said:

You stop with the bullshit and we stop with the personal shit. Deal?

No....I don't consider what I post to be bullshit.

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Just now, Dog said:

No....I don't consider what I post to be bullshit.

Sorry to break it to you, but it is bullshit.

Please take some time off the nutjob news crack and rethink your part in the behaviour towards you.

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11 minutes ago, mathystuff said:

Sorry to break it to you, but it is bullshit.

Please take some time off the nutjob news crack and rethink your part in the behaviour towards you.

No, I think what we have here is a simple difference of opinion. IMHO, no justification for personal shit.

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1 hour ago, mathystuff said:
1 hour ago, Dog said:

No....I don't consider what I post to be bullshit.

Sorry to break it to you, but it is bullshit.

Please take some time off the nutjob news crack and rethink your part in the behaviour towards you.

Curiously, the only people who don't think it's bullshit are partners on the bovine excrement express. The Dog Team.

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18 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Curiously, the only people who don't think it's bullshit are partners on the bovine excrement express. The Dog Team.

Bullshit at least has value once composted, Dog shit is just toxic sludge.

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"WASHINGTON — The exit of Donald Trump has brought back a more normal rhythm to politics in Washington, but outside the Beltway, deeper forces are reshaping the partisan landscape.

Data from the NBC News poll shows that the composition of the two major parties is changing, and one massive shift is coming in employment: the kinds of jobs Democrats and Republicans hold. There are signs across racial and ethnic demographic groups that Republicans are becoming the party of blue-collar Americans and the change is happening quickly".

The GOP is rapidly becoming the blue-collar party. Here's what that means. (nbcnews.com)

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24 minutes ago, Dog said:

"WASHINGTON — The exit of Donald Trump has brought back a more normal rhythm to politics in Washington, but outside the Beltway, deeper forces are reshaping the partisan landscape.

Data from the NBC News poll shows that the composition of the two major parties is changing, and one massive shift is coming in employment: the kinds of jobs Democrats and Republicans hold. There are signs across racial and ethnic demographic groups that Republicans are becoming the party of blue-collar Americans and the change is happening quickly".

The GOP is rapidly becoming the blue-collar party. Here's what that means. (nbcnews.com)

The QOP won't reach that goal, the political cancer known as Trumpism is back.

Scoop: Trump to claim total control of GOP

Source: Axios
 

In his first post-presidential appearance, Donald Trump plans to send the message next weekend that he is Republicans' "presumptive 2024 nominee" with a vise grip on the party's base, top Trump allies tell Axios. 

What to watch: A longtime adviser called Trump's speech a "show of force," and said the message will be: "I may not have Twitter or the Oval Office, but I'm still in charge." Payback is his chief obsession. 

Axios has learned that Trump advisers will meet with him at Mar-a-Lago this week to plan his next political moves, and to set up the machinery for kingmaking in the 2022 midterms. 

Trump is expected to stoke primary challenges for some of those who have crossed him, and shower money and endorsements on the Trumpiest candidates.




Read more: https://www.axios.com/trump-2024-republican-party-cpac-b687bd9f-6702-47cb-b1ac-d112deb23880.html 

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It would be nice if someone has an armful of indictments ready to stop that asshole from getting his new start.

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38 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

The QOP won't reach that goal, the political cancer known as Trumpism is back.

It's not so much a goal as a logical trend. As the Democrats increasingly become the party of big money the working class will naturally gravitate towards the “America First” Republicans.

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On 2/9/2021 at 3:57 AM, Sol Rosenberg said:

It's alright to pander to Wall St.

That's a slippery slope bullshitter. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Dog said:

It's not so much a goal as a logical trend. As the Democrats increasingly become the party of big money the working class will naturally gravitate towards the “America First” Republicans.

The same logical trend that brought us "Good Germans"

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Bullshitting is not an agenda. The GOP needs to present alternatives, having lost the House, Senate and the White House in the last four years. 

What is the GOP plan for getting us out of the economic malaise brought on by the pandemic? 

What is the GOP alternative to ObamaCare? We heard how tremendous it would be but we are still sitting here like Sam Breakstone.  Waiting. 

What is the GOP plan for pushing fiscal responsibility? It's easy to say "cut spending" but where? 

Having a plan to make it harder for black people to vote is not a pro-worker agenda, it just makes racist dumb fucks feel better about themselves while they get robbed by the Best Americans, and does nothing for normal working class people. 

The GOP needs to offer real alternatives, not bullshit for bullshitters to spread around hither and yon. 

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The difficulty with the idea of D's targeting rural whites is that rural America has been so indoctrinated by Fox/Rush/Alex/Q that D's are EVIL, GODLESS COMMUNISTS that any attempt to recruit them will fail on deaf ears. We've all seen these demographics continually vote for people that do not recognize their economic interests but drink deeply of the social agendas put forth by their political masters. Were D's to compromise on the social issues the RW is concerned about (abortion, God in school, Guns) they would lose more D's than they would gain.  Rural whites would rather cut off their hands than shake with a Democrat.

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19 minutes ago, learningJ24 said:

The difficulty with the idea of D's targeting rural whites is that rural America has been so indoctrinated by Fox/Rush/Alex/Q that D's are EVIL, GODLESS COMMUNISTS that any attempt to recruit them will fail on deaf ears. We've all seen these demographics continually vote for people that do not recognize their economic interests but drink deeply of the social agendas put forth by their political masters. Were D's to compromise on the social issues the RW is concerned about (abortion, God in school, Guns) they would lose more D's than they would gain.  Rural whites would rather cut off their hands than shake with a Democrat.

^ this ^

The biggest schism is within the Republican Party, between those who feel it's perfectly OK to overturn the loss of an election by any means possible and those who don't. Obviously, the former have no actual commitment to America or the people who live here. I suspect they will have an increasingly vocal, increasingly violent, following, until they are very either take control or are thoroughly suppressed.

- DSK

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37 minutes ago, learningJ24 said:

The difficulty with the idea of D's targeting rural whites is that rural America has been so indoctrinated by Fox/Rush/Alex/Q that D's are EVIL, GODLESS COMMUNISTS that any attempt to recruit them will fail on deaf ears. We've all seen these demographics continually vote for people that do not recognize their economic interests but drink deeply of the social agendas put forth by their political masters. Were D's to compromise on the social issues the RW is concerned about (abortion, God in school, Guns) they would lose more D's than they would gain.  Rural whites would rather cut off their hands than shake with a Democrat.

Exactly.  DemocRATS is the enemy!

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36 minutes ago, learningJ24 said:

The difficulty with the idea of D's targeting rural whites is that rural America has been so indoctrinated by Fox/Rush/Alex/Q that D's are EVIL, GODLESS COMMUNISTS that any attempt to recruit them will fail on deaf ears. We've all seen these demographics continually vote for people that do not recognize their economic interests but drink deeply of the social agendas put forth by their political masters. Were D's to compromise on the social issues the RW is concerned about (abortion, God in school, Guns) they would lose more D's than they would gain.  Rural whites would rather cut off their hands than shake with a Democrat.

Good demonization...I think they are more really more concerned with their declining life style, read, selling out to China and illegal immigration. As for propaganda look what happened to Parler when they tried to offer an alternative to the Democratic big Tech mind managers.

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4 minutes ago, Dog said:

Good demonization...I think they are more really more concerned with their declining life style, read, selling out to China and illegal immigration. As for propaganda look what happened to Parler when they tried to offer an alternative to the Democratic big Tech mind managers.

1.  "Illegal immigration".  Something which, by nearly every measure, was decreasing before Trump made an ethical and moral mess of it to look like he was doing something.

2.  "China".  Something that decades of offshoring in the name of corporate profits created - most supported by Republican interests.  Something that, again, Trump made a total mess of, rather than working together with out allies to create a comprehensive plan.  Alienate your allies and then fuck with your biggest trading partner.  That's the ticket.

3.  Declining life style.  This is universal across the United States.  We no longer add value to many products, so we don't bring wealth into our country.  Again, largely due to the corporate movement of jobs that pay a living wage moving to China.  Again - something that until just recently was widely supported by Republicans who were against Unions and Labor negotiation.

You want to talk about demonization?  Take a good hard look at how you yourself make out like every ill in the country is always the faults of the Democrats.  According to you they've destroyed our cities, destroyed our rural communities, ruined our immigration policies, destroyed our economy.

You, sir, are a liar and a bullshitter.

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12 minutes ago, Dog said:

Good demonization...I think they are more really more concerned with their declining life style, read, selling out to China and illegal immigration. As for propaganda look what happened to Parler when they tried to offer an alternative to the Democratic big Tech mind managers.

Or, look what happened to farmers when Trump "won" the trade war with China.

Selling hatred is exactly how you convince people to vote themselves into serfdom

- DSK

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Not demonization, observation.  I come from those people and grew up around them so their attitudes are familiar.  Add that to looking at the voting patterns and it's not hard to make the observation that they are voting against their economic interests. Rural America provides a lot of positive characteristics but the ability to live without conflict in a diverse society is not one of them. 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/feb/22/people-with-extremist-views-less-able-to-do-complex-mental-tasks-research-suggests

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On 2/9/2021 at 2:35 PM, Dog said:

No, I think what we have here is a simple difference of opinion. IMHO, no justification for personal shit.

 

AEE13F3A-63E2-4B20-A16C-404AF0C7C873.jpeg

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"In January 2020, when the Democratic primary elections were about to begin, President-elect Joe Biden’s campaign chairman Steve Ricchetti met with 90 Wall Street donors to tell them it was time to fund Biden’s efforts against the other candidates. After Biden finished off his opposition, Obama’s former defense secretary urged Goldman Sachs staffers to place a big bet on Biden against Trump. 

This seems to have worked… According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Wall Street contributed more than $74 million directly to Biden’s campaign. Conversely, they only gave Trump $18 million, even less than the $20 million he received in 2016. Their reason for preferring Biden? Trump’s lack of “predictability,” said one unnamed GOP adviser. In other words, with Biden, the system will become easy to control again".

America's Party Realignment - American Consequences

11 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

 

AEE13F3A-63E2-4B20-A16C-404AF0C7C873.jpeg

Drip drip drip

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Did Dog just amid that Trump was erratic?  I think he did.

Newsflash:  stock markets like people who do what they expect them to.

Breaking news!  Stock markets back the people they think will win to curry favor.

Let's look at what they said about Hillary, since you enjoy doing that:

“I think what’s driving people towards her is that she’s the adult in the room,” Thomas Nides, a former Deputy Secretary of State under Clinton and vice-chairman at Morgan Stanley who has been serving as something of a conduit between the candidate and Wall Street, told me. “If she’s going to do anything, she’s going to do it with knowledge of the industry, and of the players in the industry. People in the industry may not like it, but it will be done based upon at least a modicum of intelligence.”

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

"In January 2020, when the Democratic primary elections were about to begin, President-elect Joe Biden’s campaign chairman Steve Ricchetti met with 90 Wall Street donors to tell them it was time to fund Biden’s efforts against the other candidates. After Biden finished off his opposition, Obama’s former defense secretary urged Goldman Sachs staffers to place a big bet on Biden against Trump. 

This seems to have worked… According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Wall Street contributed more than $74 million directly to Biden’s campaign. Conversely, they only gave Trump $18 million, even less than the $20 million he received in 2016. Their reason for preferring Biden? Trump’s lack of “predictability,” said one unnamed GOP adviser. In other words, with Biden, the system will become easy to control again".

America's Party Realignment - American Consequences

Drip drip drip

Irony. 

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7 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:
1 hour ago, Dog said:

"In January 2020, when the Democratic primary elections were about to begin, President-elect Joe Biden’s campaign chairman Steve Ricchetti met with 90 Wall Street donors to tell them it was time to fund Biden’s efforts against the other candidates. After Biden finished off his opposition, Obama’s former defense secretary urged Goldman Sachs staffers to place a big bet on Biden against Trump. 

This seems to have worked… According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Wall Street contributed more than $74 million directly to Biden’s campaign. Conversely, they only gave Trump $18 million, even less than the $20 million he received in 2016. Their reason for preferring Biden? Trump’s lack of “predictability,” said one unnamed GOP adviser. In other words, with Biden, the system will become easy to control again".

America's Party Realignment - American Consequences

Drip drip drip

Irony. 

It's kind of funny, considering that just about the only thing Trump could brag about that actually happened is that the stock market went up and up and up.

Well, that, and Ivanka's tits but those are fake.

Maybe this is why Dog pretending to be a doctor this morning?

- DSK

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On 2/8/2021 at 2:57 PM, Sol Rosenberg said:

The democRATS would be wise to listen to Rep. Kaptur...and Rep. Tim Ryan on this subject.  They should focus on the economic concerns of the working class. It's alright to pander to Wall St., with the understanding that the interests of the working class come first and that the rising tide will lift all boats, not just the Best Yachts. That would set them apart from The Party. 

You are correct, but sadly, they (Ds &Rs) serve the same masters. That was the former asshole's genius.While sucking up the 1%, he managed to convince the deplorables that he, and he alone, would restore that middle class.

Question: how could a no-class, loser, bankrupt, misogynist, narcissistic, con man, lying piece of shit, tax cheat, insurrectionist, New Yawker, etc. convince a whole lot of rednecks and morons to believe in him?

I guess bullshit works for the Doggy Stylers unless they have to swear in court.

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6 minutes ago, Remodel said:

Its all bullshit for the Doggy Stylers until they have to swear to tell the truth in court.

FIFY

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8 hours ago, Remodel said:

You are correct, but sadly, they (Ds &Rs) serve the same masters. That was the former asshole's genius.While sucking up the 1%, he managed to convince the deplorables that he, and he alone, would restore that middle class.

Question: how could a no-class, loser, bankrupt, misogynist, narcissistic, con man, lying piece of shit, tax cheat, insurrectionist, New Yawker, etc. convince a whole lot of rednecks and morons to believe in him?

I guess bullshit works for the Doggy Stylers unless they have to swear in court.

"New Yawker"... You got a problem with NY?  

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

"New Yawker"... You got a problem with NY?  

Not a bit. I'm an alum of NYU, and lived in Manhattan for many years. Like any city, town or village, it has it's good people and it's bad. Trump and his ilk represent the bad.

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“White voters as a whole trended toward the Democratic Party, and nonwhite voters trended away from us. So we’re now somewhere between 2004 and 2008 in terms of racial polarization. Which is interesting. I don’t think a lot of people expected Donald Trump’s GOP to have a much more diverse support base than Mitt Romney’s did in 2012. But that’s what happened...

One important thing to know about the decline in Hispanic support for Democrats is that it was pretty broad. This isn’t just about Cubans in South Florida. It happened in New York and California and Arizona and Texas...

And since white voters are sorting on ideology more than nonwhite voters, we’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of “racial resentment.” So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us"...

More here...

David Shor’s (Updated) 2020 Autopsy and 2022 Forecast (nymag.com)

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I believe it's spelled "Noo Yawker". Lawn guy land is in Noo Yawk.

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

“White voters as a whole trended toward the Democratic Party, and nonwhite voters trended away from us. So we’re now somewhere between 2004 and 2008 in terms of racial polarization. Which is interesting. I don’t think a lot of people expected Donald Trump’s GOP to have a much more diverse support base than Mitt Romney’s did in 2012. But that’s what happened...

One important thing to know about the decline in Hispanic support for Democrats is that it was pretty broad. This isn’t just about Cubans in South Florida. It happened in New York and California and Arizona and Texas...

And since white voters are sorting on ideology more than nonwhite voters, we’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of “racial resentment.” So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us"...

More here...

David Shor’s (Updated) 2020 Autopsy and 2022 Forecast (nymag.com)

We slammed the Republican party by 10 million votes, Hispanic support is at an all time high. I think it is pretty shallow thinking by David Shor to say otherwise. By the end of Biden's first term the word Republican will have been removed from the American lexicon and whatever replaces it will have little interest to the American voter.

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

“White voters as a whole trended toward the Democratic Party, and nonwhite voters trended away from us. So we’re now somewhere between 2004 and 2008 in terms of racial polarization. Which is interesting. I don’t think a lot of people expected Donald Trump’s GOP to have a much more diverse support base than Mitt Romney’s did in 2012. But that’s what happened...

One important thing to know about the decline in Hispanic support for Democrats is that it was pretty broad. This isn’t just about Cubans in South Florida. It happened in New York and California and Arizona and Texas...

And since white voters are sorting on ideology more than nonwhite voters, we’ve ended up in a situation where white liberals are more left wing than Black and Hispanic Democrats on pretty much every issue: taxes, health care, policing, and even on racial issues or various measures of “racial resentment.” So as white liberals increasingly define the party’s image and messaging, that’s going to turn off nonwhite conservative Democrats and push them against us"...

More here...

David Shor’s (Updated) 2020 Autopsy and 2022 Forecast (nymag.com)

Somewhat one sided.  The reality is that more 'rich' voted for democrats then have in the past.  And while minorities went more Trump then they did last time around, Bush still got more minority votes than Trump did.

I'm perfectly fine with Republicans and Democrats both have a wider diversity of support across the political spectrum.  I think it will be good for both parties.

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27 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

 

I'm perfectly fine with Republicans and Democrats both have a wider diversity of support across the political spectrum.  I think it will be good for both parties.

I'd be perfectly fine with Republicans and Democrats both having a wider diversity of policy goals across the political spectrum, particularly wrt economic diversity of the group(s) who benefit from those goals. 

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