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For me the best thing until now is Group Apicil. Look at their position and see that this is a non-foiler built in 2008. These guys did a marvelous job in the Vendee and they´re doing it again. Just brilliant.

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something like this, perhaps?

The big picture from above with NOAA overlay and Avation Weather sat image infrared. HPs all around, except the Med with a storm moving west. That orange line across Spain is a through over the G

This has been discussed widely in Other Imoca forums and particularly in French arenas. To understand why there is a One Design mast requires an understanding of class history and what brought ab

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5 hours ago, furler49 said:
5 hours ago, BGeff said:

Both of them have retired with mechanical issues.  Charlie and Pasquel had tiller extension or tiller issues that they couldn't overcome.

Where is this referenced?! 

11th Hour Racing 2 is doing 20.5 Knots last sked so has it retired.? Boat one is in Port yes. 

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2 hours ago, kass said:

What makes you say that?

OK. My bad. Prolly just local conditions. I now see 24hr av speed  consistent with fleet and they seem to be back on pace.

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49 minutes ago, BGeff said:

The misinformation I gave has already been addressed.

CRT Burn? Yes interesting as someone else said the boat had retired due to tiller issues or something along those lines. Interesting to see 2 x reports of a boat retiring when it hasn't. LOL. :D

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1 minute ago, yl75 said:

By the way I wonder whether they have cameras filming permanently to at least know what these "UFOs" were, should be really cheap to set this up these days.

The incident happened during the night, so unless IR and/or thermal cameras are used you would see nothing at all.

And if its a submerged whale, or container floating beneath the surface, neither.

But I do remember that some of the Imocas had a detection system installed for the last VG using cams. One boat had it connected to the autopilot. Haven’t heared of it lately though.

 

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43 minutes ago, Herman said:

The incident happened during the night, so unless IR and/or thermal cameras are used you would see nothing at all.

And if its a submerged whale, or container floating beneath the surface, neither.

But I do remember that some of the Imocas had a detection system installed for the last VG using cams. One boat had it connected to the autopilot. Haven’t heared of it lately though.

 

Yes that is the Oscar system mounted on top of the mast :

https://www.oscar-navigation.com/?lang=fr

But that is for detection/avoidance, it seems to me some cheap cameras (possibly IR for the night) if well placed should be able to help identify what the ofni was. Even at night there is often a bit of light. Just for analysis, not avoidance.

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The nemesis of foiling boats will always be the UFO. It's a game of luck in so many ways. Sucks for Sodebo but I always get fascinated to see which Skippers are lucky and which are not? Alex Thomson may have won the Vendee Globe if he hadn't of broken his foil but Armel didn't hit anything and goes onto win. Nobody wants to see luck decide a race accept for now and then. 

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12 hours ago, Jono said:

Belated Thanks Kass.

Only 4 C40s from 145  (2015) to new (172) not racing. - 146, 150, 169, 171. That is seriously impressive for class participation. And also a reflection on the need for a scow bow.

Question: Who would buy (and/or afford) a C40 outside a fully sponsored project, which in turn would insist on TJV participation and "returns" ?  (only TJV and RdR provide those)

Question 2: Which (sailing illiterate) marketing manager of a sponsor would "take the risk" of not going mainstream i.e scow bow ?

C40 is a good advertising product (cost/return ratio) and business talks.

Alternative TJV courses introduced this year are purely "potential returns" inspired. If successful it should boost the C40 class.

Note: I'm a long time fan of scows ;)

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

Yes that is the Oscar system mounted on top of the mast :

https://www.oscar-navigation.com/?lang=fr

But that is for detection/avoidance, it seems to me some cheap cameras (possibly IR for the night) if well placed should be able to help identify what the ofni was. Even at night there is often a bit of light. Just for analysis, not avoidance.

Pretty sure they use FLIR technology cameras which aren’t cheap. They’ve been in testing for a while and a few boats in the VG used them. Sam Davies had hoped that they could input collision avoidance into the Madintec pilot to actively avoid an obstacle but they ran out of time to test and develop that before the race

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16 hours ago, ET1 said:

For me the best thing until now is Group Apicil. Look at their position and see that this is a non-foiler built in 2008. These guys did a marvelous job in the Vendee and they´re doing it again. Just brilliant.

Agreed; and it is even more impressive when you know that the skipper, Damien Seguin has only one functioning hand...

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2 hours ago, yl75 said:

Shit the geovoile direct tracker link does not work anymore for me, same for everybody ?

http://transat-jacques-vabre.geovoile.com/2021/tracker/

Hope it's not permanent.

Fine here.

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1 hour ago, TPG said:

BPXI came out of nowhere back into second. 

Armel & Kevin stayed closer to Funchal, took a shortcut and invested less in the west. The disadvantage is that they could have more trouble with the island wind shadow though. That is why I think that Franck & Charles took the long road around Funchal. And Armel & Kevin gybed due west @15:00 CET to stay out of that wind shadow.

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15 minutes ago, BGeff said:

I know it is a big ask, but is there someone to roughly translate?

After the damage observed last night on the starboard foil of # SodeboUltim3 following the impact with a UFO, our two skippers are currently heading for Madeira for a technical stopover. ➡️ https://bit.ly/3wAiR9M
Objective: repair and start the race as quickly as possible!

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The Sodebo situation made me curious...  Here's the technical stop content from the NOR...

Quote

20.2 Boats must complete the entire race independently and must not deliberately sail in convoy or make any arrangements for mutual support. During the event, boats must not have any material contact with another vessel or aircraft. Boats cannot be reprovisioned in any way, except in the case of a technical stopover as per NOR 20.3.

 

20.3 During the race, a boat may stop or anchor and receive assistance under the following conditions:

-  A technical stopover in a port or tied to a buoy or alongside a ship at anchor or docked in a port or in a shelter, may not be less than 4 hours.

-  The Skipper must request permission to stop from Race Management (via VHF, telephone, email).

-  Following consent from Race Management about the location of the stopover, the repairs to beundertaken and equipment to be changed if applicable, the boat may be towed or use its engine to enter and/or leave a port or anchorage agreed with Race Management, over a distance agreed with Race Management, provided that it can be proved that the tow or use of the engine did not help the boat progress towards the finish line.

-  Only once the boat is under tow or under engine may other people come on board

-  When the boat is at anchor or tied to a buoy or alongside a ship at anchor or docked in the port or shelter agreed with Race Management, it must inform Race Management who will record the stop time. Repairs can be carried out and the boat can be reprovisioned, and spare equipment embarked as agreed with Race Management. The crew may disembark.

-  Once the boat has been repaired and is ready to resume the race, the skipper must request authorisation from Race Management, which will check that the boat has been stationary for at least 4 hours.

-  Upon authorisation from Race Management, the boat can be towed or can motor over a distance pre-agreed with Race Management, provided that the skipper can prove that the tow or use of the engine has not helped the boat progress towards the finish line.

-  The skipper must write a detailed report for the president of the Race Committee.

-  This does not apply to the port of Le Havre where any means are authorised to reach the port or leave it up to the Le Havre channel marker specified in the Sailing Instructions.

 

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46 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

After the damage observed last night on the starboard foil of # SodeboUltim3 following the impact with a UFO, our two skippers are currently heading for Madeira for a technical stopover. ➡️ https://bit.ly/3wAiR9M
Objective: repair and start the race as quickly as possible!

Thank you so much!  

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Well, not so good news for our good friends on Polka Dot.  They're battling SSW headwinds, and the forecast is for more of the same, much, much more.  

A large and powerful non-tropical area of low pressure located 
several hundred miles southeast of Cape Race Newfoundland is 
producing a broad area of showers, gale to near-hurricane-force 
winds, and dangerous seas across portions of the north-central 
Atlantic. Although the chance for subtropical development continues 
to decrease as it moves over much cooler waters, this system is 
forecast to intensify into a hurricane-force extratropical low by 
tonight. 

There doesn't seem to be a way for them to transit back across to the nice Portugal Northerly trade that's developed, and is shooting the rest of the fleet past Finisterre.

It was a gutsy call to split and go out West, but it didn't work.  I sincerely hope they'll be OK out there, as it looks very unpleasant.

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31 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

The Sodebo situation made me curious...  Here's the technical stop content from the NOR...

 

In the short video posted above, they say that they contacted the Race Organization and obtain the authorization for a stopover and assistance. The team is sending people to Madeira with parts to repair as quickly as possible. They do not say if there will be a penalty for the stopover and the assistance, but truly, I think that the lost time for the repair will be enough a penalty...

I wonder if they expect to keep the foil, or just "patch up" the ama and continue the race with only one foil... Not explained in the video. They talked to the guys on the boat, got pictures, etc. but obviously, no details are revealed in the short video above.

 

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27 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

Well, not so good news for our good friends on Polka Dot.  They're battling SSW headwinds, and the forecast is for more of the same, much, much more.  


A large and powerful non-tropical area of low pressure located 
several hundred miles southeast of Cape Race Newfoundland is 
producing a broad area of showers, gale to near-hurricane-force 
winds, and dangerous seas across portions of the north-central 
Atlantic. Although the chance for subtropical development continues 
to decrease as it moves over much cooler waters, this system is 
forecast to intensify into a hurricane-force extratropical low by 
tonight. 

There doesn't seem to be a way for them to transit back across to the nice Portugal Northerly trade that's developed, and is shooting the rest of the fleet past Finisterre.

It was a gutsy call to split and go out West, but it didn't work.  I sincerely hope they'll be OK out there, as it looks very unpleasant.

Looks like it could develop into every ocean racers' nightmare.

1167385975_ScreenShot2021-11-12at10_58_35AM.png

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1 hour ago, Laurent said:

They do not say if there will be a penalty for the stopover and the assistance, but truly, I think that the lost time for the repair will be enough a penalty...

As far as I can tell from NOR 20.3, technical stops don't involve penalties as long as you communicate with race management and comply with their directions, and your stop lasts at least 4 hours.  Which, as you suggested, makes sense because you're already losing time for the stop itself plus the diversion in your routing, etc.

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2 hours ago, P_Wop said:

Well, not so good news for our good friends on Polka Dot.  They're battling SSW headwinds, and the forecast is for more of the same, much, much more.  


A large and powerful non-tropical area of low pressure located 
several hundred miles southeast of Cape Race Newfoundland is 
producing a broad area of showers, gale to near-hurricane-force 
winds, and dangerous seas across portions of the north-central 
Atlantic. Although the chance for subtropical development continues 
to decrease as it moves over much cooler waters, this system is 
forecast to intensify into a hurricane-force extratropical low by 
tonight. 

There doesn't seem to be a way for them to transit back across to the nice Portugal Northerly trade that's developed, and is shooting the rest of the fleet past Finisterre.

It was a gutsy call to split and go out West, but it didn't work.  I sincerely hope they'll be OK out there, as it looks very unpleasant.

Hey Woppy, can you explain why they even considered to go that far West? To sail around the high, into headwinds? Because some routing suggested it? Remember, the Class 40's still have to go down to the Cape Verdes first.

And then that written weather forecast, didn't even know they were still doing those. ;)

Windy has the best graphics of any, is free for the basic models, no registration neceassary, and is fundamentaly as reliable as any of the paid models, at least for offshore.

Screenshot_20211112-122201.thumb.png.2cd15121b5ea93bd9965a546b0389200.png

At current time of posting.

Low is moving NE, btw.

 

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10 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Hey Woppy, can you explain why they even considered to go that far West? To sail around the high, into headwinds? Because some routing suggested it? Remember, the Class 40's still have to go down to the Cape Verdes first.

And then that written weather forecast, didn't even know they were still doing those. ;)

Windy has the best graphics of any, is free for the basic models, no registration neceassary, and is fundamentaly as reliable as any of the paid models, at least for offshore.

Screenshot_20211112-122201.thumb.png.2cd15121b5ea93bd9965a546b0389200.png

At current time of posting.

Low is moving NE, btw.

 

I believe they fairly soon realised they didn't have the legs on the leading boats, so decided to take a flyer.  It looked good for a bit, while everyone else was wandering around at 2 knots.  At one point they were 5th. 

But I must admit that I haven't taken a deep dive into the GRIBs etc., but assume they had some pretty good data aboard.

It seems to me that several things happened.  The Atlantic low developed into a bigger, quicker, deeper system than predicted.  And the North Portugese Trades materialised just in time to give the inshore 40s a pretty free run to Finisterre and down the coast.

Polka Dot managed to get back across the ridge to re-join the party, but well back.

A long way to go.

YMMV

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Thomas Coville explained that the shock was really violent. Thomas Rouxel flew inside the boat and is bruised.

They took 12 to 13 hours to lift the foil and fix what they could, but it is not finished. Therefore the stop in Madeira and the team helping them to fix it, but also make sure that the foil is not going to damage the hull further and do everything to restart and still finish the race. Since the weather forecast is complicated, there might be a slight chance for them to come back into the game, and they want to try it.

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1 hour ago, wildbirdtoo said:

I wonder if Charlie has a problem.. slowed down quite a bit over the last few hours.  Linked out has almost caught up;  the 30m deficit has gone (and not a trick of position/ calcs)

Well spotted, that went "south" quickly. :)

Must have hit the light spot that only the NEMS model seems to show. Apivia now trying to cover Linkedout, and all the leading boats might slow down together for a while.

Nems model is actually 11 hours old, and will update in 1 hour. (On Windy).

Edited by Fiji Bitter
For a while...
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Thomas Rouxel was at the nav station when they hit the UFO.

Coville says he is "bruised" in above video.

 

Edit : no in fact he was not at the nav station but going back to the wheel, and was pushed forward during the schock, hurting the winch handle,  then the computer screen ...

https://transatjacquesvabre.sodebo.com/actualites/escale-technique-express-sodebo-ultim-3-de-retour-en-course/

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21 minutes ago, yl75 said:

 

Thomas Rouxel was at the nav station when they hit the UFO.

Coville says he is "bruised" in above video.

He smashed with his head into that display with what boat speed? 25 kts? They should be starting to use airbags!

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

He smashed with his head into that display with what boat speed? 25 kts? They should be starting to use airbags!

More details below :

https://transatjacquesvabre.sodebo.com/actualites/escale-technique-express-sodebo-ultim-3-de-retour-en-course/

He "flew" through the cockpit and hurt several things. (Coville was resting in the bunk)

He also says that following the repair the foil is still not really usable (not much details)

They were at 30 knts

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The big picture for Nov 12th.

Pic 1 has NOAA Atlantic synopsis overlay with GFS wind and pressure (latest run 00 UTC) for 09 UTC boat positions.

The 4 red dots (I brushed them up in the screenhot) represent the 4 class leaders, positions @ 0900 CET.

Eyecatcher is the hurricane east of Newfoundland moving NNE. Winds > 40 kts.

The first ultime Rothschild is near a LP mark drawn by the NOAA forecaster Bell, I don't see that though in the forecasted GFS GRIBs for wind, pressure and cloud cover. Or IR sat clouds.

All boats can now enjoy the ride south using the Azores HP and /or trades.

Pic 2 has the zoom of pic 1.

Pic 3 zoom added with inverted IR satellite clouds in order to line op forecasts NOAA and GFS with actual positions of systems.

Pic 4 shows that ultime Rothschild is 900+ nm north of the ITCZ or as the French like to call it, the "pot au noir". With current speed (30 kts) extrapolated that is +/- 30 hrs away for them.

 

 

 

Big picture12-11-21 NOAA v3.png

Big picture12-11-21 NOAA v3 zoom.png

1781307961_Bigpicture12-11-21NOAAv3satclouds.png

ITCZ.png

Edited by Herman
Add ETA for ITCZ
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The ITCZ/pot au noir looks huge on Windy in the coming days, it start to fill up around Nov 15 or 16. There might be a regrouping for the Ultims (although they are already pretty much grouped, except for Sodebo).

 

Edit : again BPXI position is late for the 10:00 report (9:45), can't they fix their data transmission stuff ?

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4 hours ago, Laurent said:

 

Thanks!

I was not aware that Will Oxley is doing their routing. Interesting.

So pleased they managed to sort things so they could rejoin the race. Will be fascinating to see if they can catch up. 

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2 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Must have hit the light spot that only the NEMS model seems to show. Apivia now trying to cover Linkedout, and all the leading boats might slow down together for a while.

Nems model is actually 11 hours old, and will update in 1 hour. (On Windy).

As a desert the NEMS model as overlay with 0900 CET boat positions for LinkedOut and Apivia. That patch of lighter winds is projected 40 NM to the east of Apivia. Unless that is forecasted inaccurate, which could be the case, something else could be at hand. Boats were 20 nm apart @ 0900 CET, and @ 1000 CET only 17 nm. That would be a very local patch of light wind then, as Apivia is still 2 kts slower than LinkedOut atm.

Schermafdruk 2021-11-12 10.48.26.png

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33 minutes ago, Herman said:

As a desert the NEMS model as overlay with 0900 CET boat positions for LinkedOut and Apivia. That patch of lighter winds is projected 40 NM to the east of Apivia. Unless that is forecasted inaccurate, which could be the case, something else could be at hand. Boats were 20 nm apart @ 0900 CET, and @ 1000 CET only 17 nm. That would be a very local patch of light wind then, as Apivia is still 2 kts slower than LinkedOut atm.

The NEMS forecast on Windy was meanwhile more than 12 hours old, and did in fact not yet update as scheduled. Your gribs could be different of course. The other models did not really show anything, so yes, it could be very local, and probably not very accurately positioned as forecast anyway.

Linkedout has now slowed down a fair bit, but Apivia is still a lot slower. Unless someone can find the actual windspeeds on the boats, we will all be guessing, more or less.

One thing is sure though, that Apivia is fast but not very lucky, so far!

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Unless someone can find the actual windspeeds on the boats, we will all be guessing, more or less.

I like a challenge.

In Pic 1 the ASCAT actual wind speeds and direction @ 10:14 UTC as overlay.

No strange lighter patches east of Apivia, nada.

Pic 2 has the zoom.

Apivia is in 3rd place, doing 2 kts slower than LinkedOut and Charal @ 12:00 CET.

Something is wrong with the race monster, my best guess. Charal and Apivia are within visual range, maybe some pictures on the socials will show something.

 

ASCAT Nov 12 1014 UTC.png

ASCAT Nov 12 1014 UTC Zoom.png

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4 hours ago, Herman said:

Very interesting; for the more experienced here, what kinds of things could cause a mast to snap on a well prepared Imoca nosing into a wave going downwind in 23kts??? Just some materials flaw or did they have to do something wrong?

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Sodebo flew in a repair team with a sizeable repair kit in Madeira on 24h notice. Do you guys think this kind of things should be allowed? Especially those of us how we want to see the sport being environmentally sustainable.

I don't want to start a debate on the whole fossil fuel generators here. Will probably make a thread to discuss it. But in terms of the sport what do you think about being able to fly a repair team thousands of km. I know stops are allowed, this is no Vendée Globe. Still, where do we put the limit?

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4 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Very interesting; for the more experienced here, what kinds of things could cause a mast to snap on a well prepared Imoca nosing into a wave going downwind in 23kts??? Just some materials flaw or did they have to do something wrong?

We know that the masts are too weak for the foilers. Maybe they were sailing with a good RM margin to preserve the mast, as is apparently good practice with those boats but the wave somehow made them reach the mast's limit. Maybe it has nothing to do with the relative weakness of the mast. We will (probably not) know later.

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3 minutes ago, serialsailor said:

We know that the masts are too weak for the foilers. Maybe they were sailing with a good RM margin to preserve the mast, as is apparently good practice with those boats but the wave somehow made them reach the mast's limit. Maybe it has nothing to do with the relative weakness of the mast. We will (probably not) know later.

Yes the mast design issue I understand but still, this wasn’t southern ocean conditions. It was ARC rally conditions.

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19 minutes ago, Herman said:

I like a challenge.

In Pic 1 the ASCAT actual wind speeds and direction @ 10:14 UTC as overlay.

No strange lighter patches east of Apivia, nada.

Pic 2 has the zoom.

Apivia is in 3rd place, doing 2 kts slower than LinkedOut and Charal @ 12:00 CET.

Something is wrong with the race monster, my best guess. Charal and Apivia are within visual range, maybe some pictures on the socials will show something

Nice work Herman, I had completely forgotten about those ASCAT windspeeds. And indeed, at the hourly update Apivia still slower, so more likely something wrong there. I remember that in the Vendee Charly did not disclose his problems, so we may have to wait until a plane or a fast boat out of Funchal goes to have a look. Maybe @Laser1 will be flying over them on the way home?

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4 minutes ago, Bluebear said:

IMOCAS and ULTIMS hitting whales id starting to kill my interest for ocean racing.

They need to deal with this issue. It happens everytime.

I am not sure there is much that can be done, object detection is difficult in turbulent waters and a powered up IMOCA or ULTIM has limited steerage.

Just part of sailing.

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20 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Very interesting; for the more experienced here, what kinds of things could cause a mast to snap on a well prepared Imoca nosing into a wave going downwind in 23kts??? Just some materials flaw or did they have to do something wrong?

They said the mast fell over the bow, so my guess would be rigging fatigue. That boat has done a lot of miles by now, and is not the team's primary boat, so new rigging might not have been a priority.

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8 minutes ago, Bluebear said:

IMOCAS and ULTIMS hitting whales id starting to kill my interest for ocean racing.

They need to deal with this issue. It happens everytime.

Indeed, a lot of humans tried to sort out that problem. And nearly succeeded in wiping out the whales. Some are still trying to solve the dolphin-problem; https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58555694

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11 minutes ago, Bluebear said:

IMOCAS and ULTIMS hitting whales id starting to kill my interest for ocean racing.

They need to deal with this issue. It happens everytime.

Regrettably indeed, for the whales and the boats.

Still plenty whales being caught too, for so called scientific purposes.

And BTW, whale meat taste very good, but personally I prefer turtle. Or bear meat actually.

Hiding in my bunk now...

 

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1 hour ago, serialsailor said:

Sodebo flew in a repair team with a sizeable repair kit in Madeira on 24h notice. Do you guys think this kind of things should be allowed? Especially those of us how we want to see the sport being environmentally sustainable.

I don't want to start a debate on the whole fossil fuel generators here. Will probably make a thread to discuss it. But in terms of the sport what do you think about being able to fly a repair team thousands of km. I know stops are allowed, this is no Vendée Globe. Still, where do we put the limit?

Tough subject, as the whole "yachting" and ocean racing activity could be considered as pure waste of energy and resources. And for the ultimes, the grey/embedded energy to build them must be quite something, carbon fiber manufacturing is very energy intensive. As to this precise case, flying five or six guys to Madeira is a bit outrageous indeed, especially considering that they have no chance of winning (the foil is not really repaired), except if all the others also have serious breakages. For me it would have been better if they retired, went back by their own means, and put themselves on stand by for a JV record attempt. But then again, we still have to see one ultim finishing a big race without hitting something... 

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1 hour ago, Jean-Baptiste said:

I am not sure there is much that can be done, object detection is difficult in turbulent waters and a powered up IMOCA or ULTIM has limited steerage.

Just part of sailing.

I'm not sure, the shock energy is proportional to the cube of the speed I think, so just dropping the sheets if they can "see" 100 or 200 meters forward could probably limit the risk quite a bit. 

On the race course I guess they will need to be particularly careful along Brazil coast next to the amazon delta, the must be quite a lot of floating stuff there, no? 

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17 minutes ago, yl75 said:

I'm not sure, the shock energy is proportional to the cube of the speed I think, so just dropping the sheets if they can "see" 100 or 200 meters forward could probably limit the risk quite a bit. 

On the race course I guess they will need to be particularly careful along Brazil coast next to the amazon delta, the must be quite a lot of floating stuff there, no? 

Large aircraft use TCAS, unfortunately whales, trees and containers do not have transponders. 30kmh is 8+ meters per second, not much time to maneuver. Lidar system might be possible but due to the reflection and absorption would be difficult, in addition very expensive and energy hungry. Hard problem, no easy solution and anything would be very dependent on sea state, ambient light, water clarity etc.

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1 hour ago, yl75 said:

Tough subject, as the whole "yachting" and ocean racing activity could be considered as pure waste of energy and resources. And for the ultimes, the grey/embedded energy to build them must be quite something, carbon fiber manufacturing is very energy intensive. As to this precise case, flying five or six guys to Madeira is a bit outrageous indeed, especially considering that they have no chance of winning (the foil is not really repaired), except if all the others also have serious breakages. For me it would have been better if they retired, went back by their own means, and put themselves on stand by for a JV record attempt. But then again, we still have to see one ultim finishing a big race without hitting something... 

I think that there are a whole host of other things to look hard at first. The military, air travel, mega yachts, and monster trucks are a bit higher on the list.

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3 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

 Maybe @Laser1 will be flying over them on the way home?

Flying back on Monday so I expect the imocas to have all blown past Madeira by then.

Maybe if Apiva has a serious issue he may be the next customer in Funchal tonight.;)

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First weather routing test for the Ultimes class leader

Input:

  1. Position 1500 CET Rothschild
  2. GFS last run 0600 UTC with 3 hr timesteps 10 days ahead, and after that
  3. OpenCPN Climate plugin for average wind in november
  4. Waves; FNMOC-WW3 model Global 7 days ahead with 1 x 1 degree resolution and after that Climate plugin
  5. Maxi multihull 2013 polar file from www.seapilot.com
  6. Waypoint is Ilha da Trindade and then Matinique
  7. Calculation with 3 hr timesteps

Output: 

  1. 6 days to Ilha da Trindade and 6 days to finish. ETA 24/11/21 in the evening.
  2. But average boat speeds are too low I think; around 19-21 kts. Currently they are doing above 30 kts. There is of course the ITCZ-crossing (twice) which will lower the average boat speed. But is someone can provide a quicker polar, please let me know.
  3. Also, the routing predicts that Frank and Charles should be heading almost due west. They are not, so that could be the GFS forecast, but more probably the inaccurate polars.
  4. But the ETA data of the 24th at the finish is not that far off though; "They are estimated to finish after 16 to 17 days" according to the TJV which is at Nov 23rd or Nov 24th.

Pic 1 has the overview.

Pic 2 decluttered

Routing ultime.png

Pic 2 decluttered.png

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Weather routing test 2 for the Ultimes class leader

Another polar file from Virtual Loupe de mer, the virtual regatta; Maxicata.csv 

The result is half an hour quickier at the waypoint, no significant performance improvement, Also, this polar wants Gitana to go west and not south. The 2nd routing projected as much further western routing, some bits even 200 nm. The waypoint is to the right of 30 degrees west, but this routing sends Gitans 100 nm west of that. So doing 200 nm extra miles generates a quicker routing is suggested.

The ITCZ as forecasted by GFS could push Gitana more west than expected if other more finer weather models  (ECMWF) predict a more eastern approach. I have to check that tomorrow.

 

 

1435512467_Schermafdruk2021-11-1217_00.46(2).thumb.png.b06fecf9fca90b21a5556eb76468f234.png

Schermafdruk 2021-11-12 17.07.17.png

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1 hour ago, Russell Brown said:

I think that there are a whole host of other things to look hard at first. The military, air travel, mega yachts, and monster trucks are a bit higher on the list.

Of course i agree. I just think we can do both and that the people organising the competitions and classes could change their way of thinking and doing things. If that leads them to having new technical needs that can also help change industries that's good.

It's just that my opinion is that racing with the wind around the oceans should be wholly done with the elements of the sea. You can have a gas engine for safety sure. Just don't break the seal or you've just abandoned.

Still, doesn't prevent me from enjoying the racing.

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27 minutes ago, serialsailor said:

Of course i agree. I just think we can do both and that the people organising the competitions and classes could change their way of thinking and doing things. If that leads them to having new technical needs that can also help change industries that's good.

It's just that my opinion is that racing with the wind around the oceans should be wholly done with the elements of the sea. You can have a gas engine for safety sure. Just don't break the seal or you've just abandoned.

Still, doesn't prevent me from enjoying the racing.

There may be marketing and hospitality implications, I would be surprised if Sodebo doesn't have a hospitality plan in  Martinique for clients.

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

First weather routing test for the Ultimes class leader

Input:

  1. Position 1500 CET Rothschild
  2. GFS last run 0600 UTC with 3 hr timesteps 10 days ahead, and after that
  3. OpenCPN Climate plugin for average wind in november
  4. Waves; FNMOC-WW3 model Global 7 days ahead with 1 x 1 degree resolution and after that Climate plugin
  5. Maxi multihull 2013 polar file from www.seapilot.com
  6. Waypoint is Ilha da Trindade and then Matinique
  7. Calculation with 3 hr timesteps

Output: 

  1. 6 days to Ilha da Trindade and 6 days to finish. ETA 24/11/21 in the evening.
  2. But average boat speeds are too low I think; around 19-21 kts. Currently they are doing above 30 kts. There is of course the ITCZ-crossing (twice) which will lower the average boat speed. But is someone can provide a quicker polar, please let me know.
  3. Also, the routing predicts that Frank and Charles should be heading almost due west. They are not, so that could be the GFS forecast, but more probably the inaccurate polars.
  4. But the ETA data of the 24th at the finish is not that far off though; "They are estimated to finish after 16 to 17 days" according to the TJV which is at Nov 23rd or Nov 24th.

Pic 1 has the overview.

Pic 2 decluttered

Routing ultime.png

Pic 2 decluttered.png

Nice work. Three of the four Ultims in the pack (i.e. excluding Sodebo) have gybed over now. In addition to being the best route, weather wise, it will help them avoid some obstacles, namely the ARC+ fleet. See screenshot attached. I imagine seeing some TJV boats blow through might be the highlight of a rally like that...

p.s. Can you add the exclusion zone along the northern coast of South America to your routing? They aren't allowed to go that close to the NE corner of Brazil, so that leg form Trindade will be slightly higher on the wind. Are you including currents as well? There's up to 2 kts in their favour in places, although perhaps that's closer in than they're allowed.

426298164_Screenshot2021-11-12at18_25_16.png

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2 hours ago, serialsailor said:

Of course i agree. I just think we can do both and that the people organising the competitions and classes could change their way of thinking and doing things. If that leads them to having new technical needs that can also help change industries that's good.

It's just that my opinion is that racing with the wind around the oceans should be wholly done with the elements of the sea. You can have a gas engine for safety sure. Just don't break the seal or you've just abandoned.

Still, doesn't prevent me from enjoying the racing

Bit split on this but don't mind for the Ultimes as a special class, don't want it for Multi 50, Imoca and Class 40. Why 2 set of rules, it's already basically the case with weather routing and Ultimes are such expensive campaigns that are made possible thanks to the exposure during races, if it allows them to continue, post content and keep one or two extra boats in the fleet, so be it.

For the green side, I don't fool myself thinking such campaigns are very green (except for Sodebo but that's only appearances), but hopefully they are laboratories to develop the industry and have an impact elsewhere on a bigger scale.

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Audio summary of the incident and its resolution by Thomas Rouxel, co-skipper of Sodebo.

Thomas Rouxel:

"Quick summary of what happened. About 24 hours ago, we were sailing in a very unstable wind, on port tack, we had Genak.J0 and full main, Thomas (Coville) was in the bunk, I was returning to the steering wheel and we hit very violently something. We do not know what it was. It was so violent that I flew through the cockpit, I hit a winch handle, the nav station computer screen, and other stuff with the other arm... I thought first that we hit another boat... Coming out of the boat, I was expecting to see the bow in pieces. So we checked the boat and saw that the starboard foil was damaged. So we launched a repair project. We did not know yet if it was just to last 3 days to a port where we could make more repairs, or to continue the race straight away. We worked on it for 12 or 13 hours straight. We were not able to do what we wanted to do, so we are now in Madeira, with the technical team who flew in and landed at half past midnight. They came aboard straight away and fixed up the boat in 2 hours. But the starboard foil is still broken so we won't be able to use it for the most part, but we can sail, we can get back into the race, so we just decided to do exactly that. We are leaving Funchal in Madeira, to get back to the waypoint where we suspended the race, and get back into it!

I do not do boxing, but I guess that a boxer, the day after a fight must be more or less like I feel. I have bruised on the right arm, on the left elbow, on the left hip, on the right foot... But nothing too serious, and it does not stop me from sailing. So very happy to get back at sea.

The competition aspect is going to be less exciting, for sure, but then we will be able to focus on the pleasure to be at sea. And learn more about how to sail this boat. And you never know what could happen...

So pedal to the metal, and the idea is to get to Martinique as fast as possible, just like our buddies."

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7 hours ago, loneshark64 said:

Yes the mast design issue I understand but still, this wasn’t southern ocean conditions. It was ARC rally conditions.

7 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

They said the mast fell over the bow, so my guess would be rigging fatigue. That boat has done a lot of miles by now, and is not the team's primary boat, so new rigging might not have been a priority.

Last I checked, there were no foiling boats in the ARC. They were doing >20 kts boat speed downwind. Most likely foiling, and then felt the boat suddenly nosedive and stop. Presumably the mast just kept going over the bow. Not hard to imagine. Why the boat suddenly plowed into the wave and/or dropped off the foils? Who can say? Everything is instrumented and logged on that boat (ATR started it, reportedly in response to Lewis Hamilton coming onboard and being shocked at the lack of load cells, and the 11th Hour have continued the practice on both boats),