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Why is it getting better? US / world


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7 hours ago, Ncik said:

And the counter-argument is that letting a very contagious virus run rampant through your society isn't good for the economy either. Have you found any legit sources yet that have run the numbers to back up your opinion?

Kill the economy (and a metric fuck-tonne of people) by letting a virus run rampant

versus

Hurt the economy by trying to control the virus.

Only one of those has any remote chance of success, where success is measured by societies general quality of life. All you had to do was buy some time until the scientists knew a bit more about handling it. But no, your privileged freedom (to live/work) outweighs all other considerations.

As a person privileged to live in a society that has handled this pandemic reasonably well, and watching other societies implode as the virus has its way, I know which I prefer. I'm fairly sure the poorer members of my society are also happy to be working/eating/living life without too many restrictions for now. Imagine how the world would be now if all the leaders had've tread similar paths and taken it seriously fro the beginning.

fyi, I know there are lots of rich people that have been adversely impacted by covid and all the restrictions, and many poor people that are better off, so this isn't the rich vs poor scenario you claim it to be.


I think this is an example of the most insidious and selfish behavior possible.

You are lumping the risks of ALL age groups, into one, homogenous group.
This is, of course, wildly inaccurate.

The CDC shows the risks to young people (35 and under) is 1000% LESS than 65+.

But, 'lockdowns' and heavy-handed policy, completely ignores the science.
It harms all people, equally.

Old people should be smart enough to stay inside for 1-2 years.
The rest of society should go about its business once we realized it was, effectively, no risk to them.

(for people 65, of course you're aware, Covid is LESS deadly than the common flu)
 

We didn't do that. We followed voodoo/populist/fake science, and we locked up healthy people - the people with no risk.
This has the counter affect, that when we 'unlock' those people... they catch the virus.  
So, we start to falsely equate that as proof that 'lockdowns work, see!'


It's sort of like AIDS, if our response was to cut off everyone's dicks, instead of helping those at risk make better & safer decisions.

We bit our nose, to spite our face. 
And the 1st world continues to cheer wildly for this plan.

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I think this is an example of the most insidious and selfish behavior possible. You are lumping the risks of ALL age groups, into one, homogenous group. This is, of course, wildly inaccurate.

Posting here is like being in the middle of a flat earther convention. You guys are just so convinced you're right - just badly ignoring all the data and science that says 'the earth is round'

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So locking up Grandma (oh no, wait, she should be 'smart' enough to do it herself...) so that you and your sock puppets can have your epic round trip from Madeira to Ecuador and beyond is ok.

And not selfish?

If Hypocrites were a species, you would be the prime example in a zoo. At least, you could tell us about how it feels to be locked up then.

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So for those on here who argue that lockdowns don't work, masks are useless, bars and restaurants and large social events should continued as if it was 2019, virus be damned because only the old and fat will die, what would you suggest that the governments of the Czech Republic and Estonia should do now that they face yet another surge of infections?

 

Screen Shot 2021-02-25 at 6.54.40 AM.png

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5 hours ago, Gissie said:

In some ways they do, assuming there is enough of them. It concentrates wealth into fewer hands. The renaissance was helped along by the plague, could this happen again?

Actually, that's backward (no surprise). The plague forced higher wages, and increased the political power of trades guilds, and boosted the middle class

But that was afterward.

During the actual plague, the economy was dead dead dead. Corpses don't contribute to the economy. Nor do panicked people fleeing or huddling in their homes avoiding all contact.

The nations that did best at controlling the plague also have the best economies.... cause/effect or some strange impossible coincidence?

- DSK

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This graph supports the various theories that we really do not know what is controlling the rate of infection. It has been comforting to talk about the possibility that the spreaders have reached the fringes of herd immunity and that this has been responsible for the decline in cases here in North America and some other areas. The Estonia data could fit into this narrative as they have not had the peaks of the US and UK and so have not built the immunity needed to slow down the spread. 

None of that fits with the Czech Republic as far as I can tell. How much immunization have they had I wonder? 

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4 hours ago, danstanford said:

Ease, there was no empathy, merely a statement of what I have observed. 

If you are coming from a position that the economic system has let us down, please elaborate on what you need that you don't have or cannot access. When Covid first arrived for us almost a year ago I got my staff together and asked them what they wanted to do going forward since I did not want anyone to have to risk their lives in ways they did not feel comfortable with going forward. Everyone said they wanted to work and we have all, save for two who have struggled with child care, been to work every day. I could have afforded to stay home and forgo the risk of being out there but these people need paychecks and so we enacted all the best practices at work for safety and have soldiered on. 

What scares me for the future is the blind belief on the part of so many that we can continue to borrow money as nations with little thought of how to pay it back. My children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it back. People are already blaming previous generations for a 'mess' of a financial situation and that will only get worse as they see a larger portion of the proceeds of their work going to service the debt. 

Debt and deficits, for a country that prints its own money is a political construct, not an economic one.

Governments are almost always in the red with talk of impending financial crisis. A crisis that never seems to come.

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2 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:


I think this is an example of the most insidious and selfish behavior possible.

snip

We bit our nose, to spite our face. 
And the 1st world continues to cheer wildly for this plan.

Your reflections fail to reveal any high level thought.

Sweden thought they knew a different path.  The policy created disaster.  Now,  the results dictate altering course.

I'm sure you have an unsinkable ship and live in a fireproof hotel.  

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14 hours ago, Controversial_posts said:

No, I was intentionally comparing two very different populations. Because despite their extremely different approaches tomthe virus, after a year, the results ended up the same.

apples/oranges your argument holds 0 H20 because of this.  

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4 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Old people should be smart enough to stay inside for 1-2 years.

You are an insufferable dick.  What constitutes old??  Who decides who is "Old" fuck you and everything you stand for.  

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1 hour ago, shaggy said:

You are an insufferable dick.  What constitutes old??  Who decides who is "Old" fuck you and everything you stand for.  

Well that, too. But when old or preexisting conditions people stay home for 1-2  years, then the small biz snowflakes start whining about business failures because "the rich" aren't going to their shops, restaurants, bars. They aren't traveling if they stay home so genx can get a tattoo. Well, sunshine echo, in the US Boomers have a huge, huge share of disposable income. They are saving it up or giving it to Amazon whilst staying home. And in the US, that's what, nearly half the population if you count obesity and high blood pressure, cancer.

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6 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

 

We bit our nose, to spite our face. 
And the 1st world continues to cheer wildly for this plan.

No, snowflake. We bit other people's noses to spare our faces, transferred wealth to industries that facilitated virtual/deliver/wfh lifestyles, let loser-industry workers get worse jobs with Doordash, gave money to Amazon and places with curbside pickup of home goods, garden supplies, dinner including cocktails to go.  We cheer because our stock portfolio is doing great. FYI your local bar, iconic diner, nail salon is usually not publicly traded. 

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

But that was afterward.

 

- DSK

Thanks for the insult, nice to see you don't change. Anyway, the comment I replied to, if you bother to read, was that the dead don't help to rebuild society. I took that to mean afterward. As in after the problem had gone. Sort of like I was saying.

But keep up the SA ignorant shit slinging, it suits you.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

then the small biz snowflakes start whining about business failures because "the rich" aren't going to their shops, restaurants, bars. 

Speaking of insufferable dicks. 

For what it is worth, I am one of the small businesses that is doing really well through this pandemic because I am in an industry niche that is servicing people stuck at home watching home decorating/renovation shows. I will pay lots of taxes as will my business and for the most part I am ok with that. However, I am strongly offended for the millions of people who took the plunge, mortgaged their homes, put life on hold, and risked everything and now are in peril of losing it all. They aren't whining, they are suffering in ways it is hard to imagine. If you want to understand, imagine it was your parents losing your inheritance. 

 

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My parents are long dead. I am a twat not a dick. 

The real business owners may not be whining and I apologize to them. There areca lot on here and in the news who whine and rave allegedly on their behalf who imo increased the severity of the pandemic. Because politics.

BTW entrepreneurs always risk losing everything in times of economic downturn, technological disruption, market shifts, natural disasters. 

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13 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

 

BTW entrepreneurs always risk losing everything in times of economic downturn, technological disruption, market shifts, natural disasters. 

 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Pointing out facts is not an insult

- DSK

Actually, that's backward (no surprise).

Sort of took that to mean I always get it backwards. Anyway, your facts sort of proved my point. Deaths and the money shifting/concentrating helps rebuild a society. Whether in a good way or not is a different argument.

Most of your facts had to do with the during phase, not the afterwards phase. In other words just misdirection and bluster. Still it is SA, so staying on topic or answering what was said is not really the done thing.

Have a great day, sun is shining and outside work beckons over here.

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6 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Debt and deficits, for a country that prints its own money is a political construct, not an economic one.

Governments are almost always in the red with talk of impending financial crisis. A crisis that never seems to come.

From an economic perspective, quantitative easing is easy and seemingly victimless. Keynes would even have you believe that it will stimulate business and you can therefore pay it back with the extra tax revenue, but I have never seen it despite several decades of unbalanced spending. 

As long as all the interest cost went back to domestic lenders one could make the case that it is largely a non-issue domestically but eventually, even suddenly, your currency has to take a hit and that costs everyone though it encourages domestic manufacturing over imports. 

In my heart and head I believe it is wrong to mortgage our future no matter the various political party's views.

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3 hours ago, danstanford said:
10 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Debt and deficits, for a country that prints its own money is a political construct, not an economic one.

Governments are almost always in the red with talk of impending financial crisis. A crisis that never seems to come.

From an economic perspective, quantitative easing is easy and seemingly victimless. Keynes would even have you believe that it will stimulate business and you can therefore pay it back with the extra tax revenue, but I have never seen it despite several decades of unbalanced spending. 

As long as all the interest cost went back to domestic lenders one could make the case that it is largely a non-issue domestically but eventually, even suddenly, your currency has to take a hit and that costs everyone though it encourages domestic manufacturing over imports. 

In my heart and head I believe it is wrong to mortgage our future no matter the various political party's views.

Well, the real issue is the underlying value of our currency. These days, the money supply is complicated.

But the money is basically a claim on the whole nation's wealth. That's a lot. But it's not true that it's always some Chicken Little alarming about a crisis that never comes. The USA has had monetary crises in the past. Other countries have had much MUCH worse ones. How bad does it have to get before people believe in it? Well, once we have runaway inflation, we then have the opposite problem, people have to gain confidence in their money before it will stop.

One of the problems with money is that it is a dynamically UNstable system. And it's also true that if you're borrowing a dollar to spend 25c on interest on the money you already borrowed, and another 25c on useless bullshit, and you can't convince the household that you need to at least slow down on the borrowing, then you're headed off a cliff.

- DSK

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13 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:


I think this is an example of the most insidious and selfish behavior possible.

You are lumping the risks of ALL age groups, into one, homogenous group.
This is, of course, wildly inaccurate.

"inaccurate" is a non sequitur, incorrect would be grammatically correct. Maybe you're just being very clever since the statement "lumping the risks of ALL age groups, into one, homogenous group" is itself is wildly inaccurate.

After all this time, you either haven't learned a thing about virus control or are deliberately misrepresenting the purpose of mitigation measures to suit your discredited agenda.

So I'll tell you yet again why the same measures are imposed on everyone, not just the most vulnerable.

The intention is to stop the spread of the disease, which means everyone restricting movement, physical distancing, practicing good hygiene, wearing masks where physical distancing can't be implemented, etc. The fact that a 20 something likely won't have serious consequences from Covid-19 isn't the reason they are included in the above, it's to stop them spreading the disease to others, increasing the risk for the vulnerable.

Mitigation measures have been proven time and time again to work, as Australia and New Zealand (and many other countries) have shown. When practiced correctly they can virtually eliminate virus spread so that life returns to "normal". The alternative is never ending waves of infections and deaths.

Mitigation measures put small but entirely tolerable burden on people for the benefit of everyone. It also means putting the welfare of others above your own self–interest, perhaps that's why you don't agree with it.

Your "solution" of isolating the vulnerable for some indefinite period has been rejected by every single nation on earth. Quite apart from being highly discriminatory, it's impractical and simply doesn't work. For you to keep putting it forward shows you just can't accept reasoned argument to the contrary. You just keep repeating the same rubbish ad nausium, so others will keep refuting it at the same rate.

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4 hours ago, danstanford said:

From an economic perspective, quantitative easing is easy and seemingly victimless. Keynes would even have you believe that it will stimulate business and you can therefore pay it back with the extra tax revenue, but I have never seen it despite several decades of unbalanced spending. 

As long as all the interest cost went back to domestic lenders one could make the case that it is largely a non-issue domestically but eventually, even suddenly, your currency has to take a hit and that costs everyone though it encourages domestic manufacturing over imports.

But if everyone is doing it, the effect on an individual currency is limited. The US created $3 trillion from March to November 2020. That money has gone almost exclusively to the top end of town, so even though unemployment remains at historic highs, the share market is booming while executive salaries have exploded.

The Walton family, owners of Walmart, has increased its wealth by $50 billion during the pandemic, yet the US senate will likely continue to block an increase of the minimum wage from $7.50 per hour.  Even some Democrat senators oppose the move. The effect in the US is very similar to what the CCP is doing in China: ensuring an impoverished rural class as cheap labour for its manufacturing sector so it can continue to flood the world with very cheap products, destroying the manufacturing bases of competing countries. Only in the US the money is used to buy cheap Chinese products with the leftover being hoarded by the wealthy. The poor are reduced to below poverty wages or even lower unemployment benefits.

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12 minutes ago, RobG said:

But if everyone is doing it, the effect on an individual currency is limited. The US created $3 trillion from March to November 2020. That money has gone almost exclusively to the top end of town, so even though unemployment remains at historic highs, the share market is booming while executive salaries have exploded.

The Walton family, owners of Walmart, has increased its wealth by $50 billion during the pandemic, yet the US senate will likely continue to block an increase of the minimum wage from $7.50 per hour.  Even some Democrat senators oppose the move. The effect in the US is very similar to what the CCP is doing in China: ensuring an impoverished rural class as cheap labour for its manufacturing sector so it can continue to flood the world with very cheap products, destroying the manufacturing bases of competing countries. Only in the US the money is used to buy cheap Chinese products with the leftover being hoarded by the wealthy. The poor are reduced to below poverty wages or even lower unemployment benefits.

Great distinction.

The issue isn't expanding the money supply.

It's what the money gets spent on and where it goes.

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18 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Great distinction.

The issue isn't expanding the money supply.

It's what the money gets spent on and where it goes.

Maybe the USD is being propped up by foreign interests buying into the buoyant US stock market. That will only last as long as the US maintains its technological lead, which is seriously under threat. Take away Google, Amazon, Facebook and Tesla and what happens to US tech stocks? Where will the next big thing come from? If it's not the US, look out.

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15 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:


I think this is an example of the most insidious and selfish behavior possible. As a 40 something with a pre-existing condition that may make me susceptible to covid, I am appreciative of the communities sacrifices for all members.

You are lumping the risks of ALL age groups, into one, homogenous group.
This is, of course, wildly inaccurate.

The CDC shows the risks to young people (35 and under) is 1000% LESS than 65+. Risk of death, true. Risks to society, false.

But, 'lockdowns' and heavy-handed policy, completely ignores the science.
It harms all people, equally. As does a rampant virus.

Old people should be smart enough to stay inside for 1-2 years. WTF! hahahaah, gold. What about their businesses, their grand-kids, their jobs?
The rest of society should go about its business once we realized it was, effectively, no risk to them.

(for people 65, of course you're aware, Covid is LESS deadly than the common flu) Cite. Even if correct, covid is much more contagious, so it'll have a bigger impact, as we have witnessed over the last 12 months in some countries. Need I post another CDC excess death graph?
 

We didn't do that. We followed voodoo/populist/fake science, and we locked up healthy people - the people with no risk. For a short period of time (relatively).
This has the counter affect, that when we 'unlock' those people... they catch the virus.  That's not true in my community? Cite. Plus you're ignoring the fact that lock-downs are only part of the mitigation strategy. Border restrictions, quarantine, masks, hygiene need to be effective also.
So, we start to falsely equate that as proof that 'lockdowns work, see!'


It's sort of like AIDS, if our response was to cut off everyone's dicks, instead of helping those at risk make better & safer decisions. Stop being ridiculous and melodramatic. Cutting off dicks is equivalent to suffocating people to stop them breathing out the virus. For viruses, masks are a much more palatable measure, similar to the use of condoms to reduce the risks of AIDS spreading.

We bit our nose, to spite our face. 
And the 1st world continues to cheer wildly for this plan.

Again, you are being stupid, I just can't tell if it is a deliberate act or you're actually stupid.

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57 minutes ago, Ncik said:

 

Again, you are being stupid, I just can't tell if it is a deliberate act or you're actually stupid.

Both. It's the Dunning-Kruger effect in full display.

// It is related to the cognitive bias of illusory superiority and comes from people's inability to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, people cannot objectively evaluate their level of competence.

Colloquially, people experiencing this bias are said to be "on Mount Stupid".//

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Posting here is like being in the middle of a flat earther convention.
You guys are just so convinced you're right - just badly ignoring all the data and science that says 'the earth is round'

 

The data appears, pretty convincingly at this point - that policy, mandates, and behavior - have no correlation with cases.

It's just there, plane as day.
The curves for California, Arizona and Nevada, are almost identical.  Yet they had completely different ... everything.

486b4cf9-bf34-4fee-ae14-4989e122e4ff.jpg.62bfd911d941ce8982365701c154f24b.jpg

 

Our how about southern states... same situation.  Totally different responses, mandates, policies...
Charts are almost identical.

73ef76c1-2bdb-4a17-a004-7bd247de84dd.jpg.d56bdef1a79e8c32fb7f6c09eab7777d.jpg

 

or look inside just...Southern California. Different policies, different dates... same curves

2d8f748a-45d1-4579-b939-cbe3b5d12833.jpg.ad57f97352b66e171f503302bc289a7e.jpg

 

 

At a *certain* point - you guys have to walk away from your dogma - and simply look at science and/or data.
Seriously.


After 14 months of this...  you guys, at *some* point - need to look around and say:  'huh, yeah, where is the correlation between policy/mandates/masks/lockdown and outcomes?'
At *some* point, people need to engage their brains.  

Seriously, this is embarrassing that groupthink prevents anyone from thinking critically or objectively.

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10 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

...

At *some* point, people need to engage their brains.  

...

Look in the mirror, boy

It's pretty obvious that you did not get stellar grades in math class. Is it too late to send you back?

- DSK

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Further proof things are improving in the US:   Nitrile exam gloves and other PPE are  now coming off backorder from the medical wholesalers.  Previously facsimiles of these products have been available on amazon but the pedigree stuff has been hit and miss for about a year.   They would often post little yellow (allocation) or red (backorder) trucks by half the products and the remainder would be several times pre CoViD prices.    I don't understand why sterile surgery gloves were also affected.   

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11 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Posting here is like being in the middle of a flat earther convention.
You guys are just so convinced you're right - just badly ignoring all the data and science that says 'the earth is round'

 

The data appears, pretty convincingly at this point - that policy, mandates, and behavior - have no correlation with cases.

It's just there, plane as day.
The curves for California, Arizona and Nevada, are almost identical.  Yet they had completely different ... everything.

486b4cf9-bf34-4fee-ae14-4989e122e4ff.jpg.62bfd911d941ce8982365701c154f24b.jpg

 

Our how about southern states... same situation.  Totally different responses, mandates, policies...
Charts are almost identical.

73ef76c1-2bdb-4a17-a004-7bd247de84dd.jpg.d56bdef1a79e8c32fb7f6c09eab7777d.jpg

 

or look inside just...Southern California. Different policies, different dates... same curves

2d8f748a-45d1-4579-b939-cbe3b5d12833.jpg.ad57f97352b66e171f503302bc289a7e.jpg

 

 

At a *certain* point - you guys have to walk away from your dogma - and simply look at science and/or data.
Seriously.


After 14 months of this...  you guys, at *some* point - need to look around and say:  'huh, yeah, where is the correlation between policy/mandates/masks/lockdown and outcomes?'
At *some* point, people need to engage their brains.  

Seriously, this is embarrassing that groupthink prevents anyone from thinking critically or objectively.

Looking at a list of restrictions seems useless since they were applied in different ways and enforced by whim.    Mask mandates didn't count in red areas.   Republicans knew it was a liberal conspiracy interfering with their right  to infect their neighbors.   Outdoor dining open was of little value in areas where humans aren't meant to be outside without air conditioned clothing.   Even if customers wanted to brave the sun the only spot might be the parking space by the dumpster.   I'm not a big fan of most restrictions states chose, there was certainly a lot of silliness and stupidity.   Proven risks like church services were left open with the promise of divine protection (as long as you worshiped under the right brand).    Low risk safety valves for cabin fever like parks and trails were closed in many areas.   County fairs were often allowed since governments didn't want to hurt their own revenue.   Government needed to make and adjust recommendations by risk / benefit equations.   They needed to compensate the people whose livelihood they were screwing with targeted payments instead of throwing cash at the masses.   People necessary to the functioning of society had to risk illness while the expendable people with unimportant jobs got a CoViD vacation. 

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Estimated world population;       7.000.000.000
Corona virus cases:                               109.345.397       1,56%     
Deaths:                                                            2.409.966       0.03%
What pandemic are we talking about? It's an inmune system disease. Those with weak inmune system are prone to get the worst part. It's a very contagious flu. Like most of flu's, it causes pneumonia, some very soft, some moderate and some severe. It came here to stay. Vaccines will be temporary solution, every year the virus will mute. The problem is it has affected more the 1rst world population than the rest of the world. Much more than this figures die per year of other diseases, and more will die due to lack of attention. It's criminal what has been done. The world as we know it has been destroyed... by whom? for what? I do not know. I don´t mean to argue with anyone, each one of us has his own opinion, and very valid of course. This is mine.
 I'm in the risk group, cause of my age, and 40% of breathing restriction due to right diafragm paralysis. Was lockdown for a month. When started working at the second week caught the damn bug ,15 days, fever (not too much), but felt like a freight train and a couple of trucks rolled over me, two days without sleeping cause of a continuos cough, didn´t go to hospital. I can´t tell how I caught the bug. Took all measures that are circling around. Where i work no one else caught it.  One of my kids caught it too, (doesn't live with me) sour throat, lack of taste for a day and that was it. I'm working since august.The point is that if tomorrow i die from a heart attack or stroke they will blame the virus...

PD figures perhaps are not exact, wrote this a couple of weeks ago on another thread.

PPDD I do not trust the vaccines, specially Pfizer and Moderna, the one that messes with Arn... I give a damn,. but my concern is for younger people, what could happen in three or four years time.

PPPDDD I don´t mean to argue with anyone, each one of us has his own opinion, and very valid of course. This is mine... if anyone cares.

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If this killed a large percent like plague, or just killed three percent of healthy adults that got sick like 1918-1919 flu, it would have been a very different experience.   Spread would have been lightning fast with global travel.   WW I troop movements were nothing compared to slow days in 2019 at the world’s airports.   Precautions could have been limited to a few months quarantine and been meaningful.  Chinese or the initial European shutdowns might have made sense.

At least the carnage would have been brief instead of three slow waves in the steam transport era or decades in the era of cogs and navas.     More deaths in a smaller window ironically would have caused less economic disruption.  After WWI people were used to large numbers of friends, family and associates randomly dying.  Now we are so safety conscious an airplane crash seems like a big deal.   If two crash the plane is grounded.    If a person even comes close to death in a construction accident inspectors are all over the place looking for reasons.   1200 died building the transcontinental railroad, 1000 digging the Erie Canal.    Even though there are a lot more humans, we value our lives more now.   Total number of deaths are higher but a much lower percent is tolerable.

I’ll bite, @jorge.   What’s Arn?   Why is a temporary work order (mRNA) more dangerous then an old fashioned attenuated vaccine,  killed vaccine or even a modern subunit vaccine?

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2 hours ago, Lark said:

If this killed a large percent like plague, or just killed three percent of healthy adults that got sick like 1918-1919 flu, it would have been a very different experience.   Spread would have been lightning fast with global travel.   WW I troop movements were nothing compared to slow days in 2019 at the world’s airports.   Precautions could have been limited to a few months quarantine and been meaningful.  Chinese or the initial European shutdowns might have made sense.

At least the carnage would have been brief instead of three slow waves in the steam transport era or decades in the era of cogs and navas.     More deaths in a smaller window ironically would have caused less economic disruption.  After WWI people were used to large numbers of friends, family and associates randomly dying.  Now we are so safety conscious an airplane crash seems like a big deal.   If two crash the plane is grounded.    If a person even comes close to death in a construction accident inspectors are all over the place looking for reasons.   1200 died building the transcontinental railroad, 1000 digging the Erie Canal.    Even though there are a lot more humans, we value our lives more now.   Total number of deaths are higher but a much lower percent is tolerable.

I’ll bite, @jorge.   What’s Arn?   Why is a temporary work order (mRNA) more dangerous then an old fashioned attenuated vaccine,  killed vaccine or even a modern subunit vaccine?

Covid does kill around 3% of confirmed cases......

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41 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Covid does kill around 3% of confirmed cases......

He should have said, or meant to have said, 3% of the world population: https://www.biospace.com/article/compare-1918-spanish-influenza-pandemic-versus-covid-19/#:~:text=Of course%2C the world population,million figure suggest about 1%.

The article implies a 10% IFR (500M infected, 50M deaths) for the Spanish Flu at the time.

World population in 1918 was 1.8B.  In 2020 it is 7.8B. 

So based on the above world population numbers, equivalent numbers today would be 2.2B infected and 220M deaths

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4 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Covid does kill around 3% of confirmed cases......

:wacko:    


This is the flat earther bullshit on full public display.
You simply made up a number.

The IFR of Covid is *heavily* age dependent.

CDC IFR Estimates by Age Group:
0-19 years:     .003%

20-49 years:   .02%
50-69 years:   .5%
70+ years:      5.4%

Source CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

 

Anyone under age 50, Covid is wildly less deadly then the flu.
Anyone 50-70, Covid is slightly more risky than flu.
Anyone over 70, Covid is indeed a problem.

 

The hysteria here is just unbelievable.

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Sadly , it’s not just the death rate.  It’s the long term damage to the vascular system caused by CV19 for younger people that also worries us.  
 

Take care . 

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Sadly , it’s not just the death rate.  It’s the long term damage to the vascular system caused by CV19 for younger people that also worries us.  
 

Take care . 

An excellent point hard to quantify.    The long delay between onset and complication, and troubling excess deaths are unique from past plagues.    
@12 metre    Thanks for the correction.   The hour was late and devices should have been off.

@BlatantEcho has a point.    I was listening to Gov DeWine’s CoViD update while working late Thursday.   He said 40% of Ohio fatalities were in nursing homes, so he was hopeful early vaccine efforts would make a quick difference.     Of course the other 60% were not,    Half a percent of people 50-59 is still significantly more then die of the flu in that age group.   Flu also likes to kill the old and immunosuppressed.  It’s just not as good at it.   CDC lists CFR at 8.2  per 100,000 for people 50-64 years old. 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html

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10 hours ago, Lark said:

If this killed a large percent like plague, or just killed three percent of healthy adults that got sick like 1918-1919 flu, it would have been a very different experience.   Spread would have been lightning fast with global travel.   WW I troop movements were nothing compared to slow days in 2019 at the world’s airports.   Precautions could have been limited to a few months quarantine and been meaningful.  Chinese or the initial European shutdowns might have made sense.

At least the carnage would have been brief instead of three slow waves in the steam transport era or decades in the era of cogs and navas.     More deaths in a smaller window ironically would have caused less economic disruption.  After WWI people were used to large numbers of friends, family and associates randomly dying.  Now we are so safety conscious an airplane crash seems like a big deal.   If two crash the plane is grounded.    If a person even comes close to death in a construction accident inspectors are all over the place looking for reasons.   1200 died building the transcontinental railroad, 1000 digging the Erie Canal.    Even though there are a lot more humans, we value our lives more now.   Total number of deaths are higher but a much lower percent is tolerable.

I’ll bite, @jorge.   What’s Arn?   Why is a temporary work order (mRNA) more dangerous then an old fashioned attenuated vaccine,  killed vaccine or even a modern subunit vaccine?

My mistake, ARN in spanish. I'm not saying it's more dangerous, haven´t got any degree. it has  cons that are not really told, IMHO. It's all about what i read. They say mRNA, disappeares afterwards, normally, but it's not a fact, some pieces of the chain remain, that could eventually cause autoinmune diseases  that are hard to cure. I'm not telling it's done in purpose,  It is too soon to know, it has all been done in a hurry. That's why pharmaceuticals demand very tough clauses on contracts to avoid possible trials, it's my guess. Personally, I won't take any vaccine.

My personal opinion is that with all these measures the only thing they are doing is kicking the dead toll further ahead, they are not going to take it down. The bug came here to stay, it will mutate. My real concern is with all the people that needed attention during this past year, and haven't seen a doctor since. As an example cancer diagnosis has fallen dramatically this past year, that means that more people who could have saved their lives probably will die because of lack of early diagnosis, and that doesn't imply old people, most are young.

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39 minutes ago, Lark said:

An excellent point hard to quantify.    The long delay between onset and complication, and troubling excess deaths are unique from past plagues.    
@12 metre    Thanks for the correction.   The hour was late and devices should have been off.

@BlatantEcho has a point.    I was listening to Gov DeWine’s CoViD update while working late Thursday.   He said 40% of Ohio fatalities were in nursing homes, so he was hopeful early vaccine efforts would make a quick difference.     Of course the other 60% were not,    Half a percent of people 50-59 is still significantly more then die of the flu in that age group.   Flu also likes to kill the old and immunosuppressed.  It’s just not as good at it.   CDC lists CFR at 8.2  per 100,000 for people 50-64 years old. 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html

The longer term implications for covid unless we can eliminate it through vaccines are shorter life expectancy. This would be the first real reversal in life expectancy in the last 100 years where life expectancy has steadily improved . 

I hope we keep pedal to the floor on elimination. It will likely be a 5+ year task.  As someone looking forward to a full and exciting old age. I  hope the world succeeds in suppressing this thing.

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

An excellent point hard to quantify.    The long delay between onset and complication, and troubling excess deaths are unique from past plagues.    
@12 metre    Thanks for the correction.   The hour was late and devices should have been off.

@BlatantEcho has a point.    I was listening to Gov DeWine’s CoViD update while working late Thursday.   He said 40% of Ohio fatalities were in nursing homes, so he was hopeful early vaccine efforts would make a quick difference.     Of course the other 60% were not,    Half a percent of people 50-59 is still significantly more then die of the flu in that age group.   Flu also likes to kill the old and immunosuppressed.  It’s just not as good at it.   CDC lists CFR at 8.2  per 100,000 for people 50-64 years old. 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html

How many of the corona deaths  had co morbidities ?

How many have or soon will  commit  lockdown  suicide or have  or will soon  die of  lockdown induced drug overdose ?  

How long will the healthcare industrial complex keep up with the  Covid gloom and doom ?

 

  

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Jorge,

Glad you came through it, but you seem misled on some fronts. Just a couple.

First, if you die tomorrow your death would not be counted as Covid-caused. For example, in the UK a death has to occur with 28 days of diagnosis to count as covid-related.

Second, mRNA vaccines have been worked on for more than 20 years, it's just that we have not approved one in humans before. We now have over 100m people inoculated with them, me included, and no sign of the problems you anticipate. And other vaccines use completely different approaches, ranging from a carrier virus, to inactivated virus, to pure protein, all approaches used before, so I cannot understand your objection to having one. But it does not matter anyway, you are surely well protected by your infection, so let the rest of us who have managed to avoid the virus so far get the benefit of a vaccine.

Third, since you think so many other terrible things have happened because of the lockdowns, etc. and indeed some have, you should encourage everyone to get vaccinated so we can claw out way back to normality as soon as possible.

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8 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Sadly , it’s not just the death rate.  It’s the long term damage to the vascular system caused by CV19 for younger people that also worries us.  
 

Take care . 

Perhaps this is well known (or perhaps it was misinformation or fake news), but I came across an item that said all the approved vaccines to date (including the somewhat maligned Astra Zeneca one) are 100% effective at eliminating hospitalization.  In other words, effectively rendering the virus no more harmful to an individual than a bad case of the common cold.

If that is the case, then perhaps the documented potential side effects of the virus will be eliminated as well.  IDK, I'm hopeful though.

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5 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

The longer term implications for covid unless we can eliminate it through vaccines are shorter life expectancy. This would be the first real reversal in life expectancy in the last 100 years where life expectancy has steadily improved . 

I hope we keep pedal to the floor on elimination. It will likely be a 5+ year task.  As someone looking forward to a full and exciting old age. I  hope the world succeeds in suppressing this thing.

But the majority of the deaths have been elderly folk sitting around in rest homes waiting for Mr Reaper. The prolonging of life has become a money making venture where there is no longer a full and exciting life left. Just some more dollars to be rung out of the shell.

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32 minutes ago, Gissie said:

But the majority of the deaths have been elderly folk sitting around in rest homes waiting for Mr Reaper. The prolonging of life has become a money making venture where there is no longer a full and exciting life left. Just some more dollars to be rung out of the shell.

You should be grateful that society doesn’t discard people just because they don’t lead a full and exciting life. Mind you if they did your mother could turn her basement into a home theatre. You know there is a government chip in the vaccine don’t you? I wouldn’t get the jab if I were you.

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1 hour ago, Matagi said:

Interesting. Have you got a link, by chance?

Starting around the 4 minute mark.  At 5 minutes she says the J&J trials in South Africa (when the SA mutation had already taken hold) it had prevented 100% of hospitalizations.

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15 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

:wacko:    


This is the flat earther bullshit on full public display.
You simply made up a number.

The IFR of Covid is *heavily* age dependent.

CDC IFR Estimates by Age Group:
0-19 years:     .003%

20-49 years:   .02%
50-69 years:   .5%
70+ years:      5.4%

Source CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

 

Anyone under age 50, Covid is wildly less deadly then the flu.
Anyone 50-70, Covid is slightly more risky than flu.
Anyone over 70, Covid is indeed a problem.

 

The hysteria here is just unbelievable.

I made up a number?

Simple maths.

Number of deaths/Number of resolved cases.

Nothing tricky, nothing hidden, nothing manipulated. No need to rely on "estimates", "modelling" or any other contrived number.

 

Unlike yourself. But since when did you let reality get in the way of your bullshit?

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On 2/25/2021 at 10:32 PM, BlatantEcho said:

 

T

Old people should be smart enough to stay inside for 1-2 years.
The rest of society should go about its business once we realized it was, effectively, no risk to them.
 

Unbelievable. Disgusting.

During our lockdown, we were permitted in parks to exercise for an hour.

I noticed an elderly couple (80's?) sitting quietly in the Autumn sunshine, holding hands, sun on their faces. Enjoying a few moments of their rapidly decreasing time together (covid or no Covid)

You'd have them waste a year or two of their last 10 or so, locked away inside just so you and your Elk can "go about your business" ?

I hope your Mum or Dad read this and leave their all to a cat home. Or better still, a state owned aged care facility.

 

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On 2/27/2021 at 10:38 AM, jorge said:

My mistake, ARN in spanish. I'm not saying it's more dangerous, haven´t got any degree. it has  cons that are not really told, IMHO. It's all about what i read. They say mRNA, disappeares afterwards, normally, but it's not a fact, some pieces of the chain remain, that could eventually cause autoinmune diseases  that are hard to cure. I'm not telling it's done in purpose,  It is too soon to know, it has all been done in a hurry. That's why pharmaceuticals demand very tough clauses on contracts to avoid possible trials, it's my guess. Personally, I won't take any vaccine.

My personal opinion is that with all these measures the only thing they are doing is kicking the dead toll further ahead, they are not going to take it down. The bug came here to stay, it will mutate. My real concern is with all the people that needed attention during this past year, and haven't seen a doctor since. As an example cancer diagnosis has fallen dramatically this past year, that means that more people who could have saved their lives probably will die because of lack of early diagnosis, and that doesn't imply old people, most are young.

mRNA isn’t very stable.   Normally it has an intracellular half-life of minutes after production.    Think of it as the meal order ticket at an old fashioned diner.    You don’t want it to keep floating around the kitchen, confusing the cook after the first or third meal is plated.   I suspect fragility is part of the extreme temperature concerns the new vaccines have.    They protect it with lipid droplets so it lasts long enough to work, but it must be a race.    I’ve seen no reason to worry about a reverse transcriptase adding it to your DNA like many viruses do, with themselves.   Nor should the mRNA be floating around in a week or month, unless you can find data to show this vaccine is very unique to the normal rules of chemistry.  Unfortunately this won’t cause the zombie apocalypse.   Humanity will need to keep trying,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7377714/

https://elifesciences.org/articles/32536

Edit.  Acida Ribonucleic?  ARN?   

The delay in routine diagnostics and so called nonessential medical care was a serious problem.   It almost cost my mom her mobility, with a three month delay in the MRI.    I’m a year late on a colonoscopy, since the doctors’ offices reopened at a time in conflict with sailing season.   I understand the US system kept a ‘just on time’ supply of gloves and stuff with no excess capacity,   They hadn’t worked out ways to keep the anesthesiologist from catching it while intubating, didn’t have a certainty of spare rooms for rare complications, etc.    They also paid a lot of nurses unemployment insurance in Ohio,   

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22 hours ago, LB 15 said:

You should be grateful that society doesn’t discard people just because they don’t lead a full and exciting life. Mind you if they did your mother could turn her basement into a home theatre. You know there is a government chip in the vaccine don’t you? I wouldn’t get the jab if I were you.

I guess you are looking forward to the final years as a drooling, brain limited idiot being kept alive because you are worth money to the company. Or have you started this phase of your life early?

I would prefer to be able to make the decision of when to go, not have some beancounter do it for me.

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45 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I guess you are looking forward to the final years as a drooling, brain limited idiot being kept alive because you are worth money to the company. Or have you started this phase of your life early?

I would prefer to be able to make the decision of when to go, not have some beancounter do it for me.

So dying of covid, terrified and struggling to breathe, as your loved ones watch on through a glass door is making your own decision when to go is it? You are already a ‘drooling brain limited idiot’ so don’t postpone your decision just for us sweetpea.

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7 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

So dying of covid, terrified and struggling to breathe, as your loved ones watch on through a glass door is making your own decision when to go is it? You are already a ‘drooling brain limited idiot’ so don’t postpone your decision just for us sweetpea.

Sometimes LB you seem to not engage your brain. On this it is pointless trying to respond so have a nice day.

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On 2/27/2021 at 3:58 PM, Gissie said:

But the majority of the deaths have been elderly folk sitting around in rest homes waiting for Mr Reaper. The prolonging of life has become a money making venture where there is no longer a full and exciting life left. Just some more dollars to be rung out of the shell.

Do you have evidence regarding the % of over-65 deaths for people in living in nursing homes versus people living at home, working, enjoying retirement, etc.? Working is often how they got covid. 

 

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3 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Do you have evidence regarding the % of over-65 deaths for people in living in nursing homes versus people living at home, working, enjoying retirement, etc.? Working is often how they got covid. 

 

Our deaths were all from rest homes, the working part of the staff was how they got it. Those that died mainly where already terminal with other major co-morbidities.

My main point was that looking forward to a ripe old age doesn't always work out how we hoped. With today's tech we can prolong life for many years when those doing the actual living might prefer a different option. Unfortunately there is money to be made from keeping a body breathing until the bitter end.

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I agree on the point that we in the 'western world' have become masterful at prolonging life, only to find that we often have no real idea of how to use it. 

But it is a whole new world of a problem and only partially intersects with this one. And, as in this case, too quickly in an absurd and cynical way.

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On 2/27/2021 at 9:57 AM, Lark said:

Looking at a list of restrictions seems useless since they were applied in different ways and enforced by whim.    Mask mandates didn't count in red areas.   Republicans knew it was a liberal conspiracy interfering with their right  to infect their neighbors.   Outdoor dining open was of little value in areas where humans aren't meant to be outside without air conditioned clothing.   Even if customers wanted to brave the sun the only spot might be the parking space by the dumpster.   I'm not a big fan of most restrictions states chose, there was certainly a lot of silliness and stupidity.   Proven risks like church services were left open with the promise of divine protection (as long as you worshiped under the right brand).    Low risk safety valves for cabin fever like parks and trails were closed in many areas.   County fairs were often allowed since governments didn't want to hurt their own revenue.   Government needed to make and adjust recommendations by risk / benefit equations.   They needed to compensate the people whose livelihood they were screwing with targeted payments instead of throwing cash at the masses.   People necessary to the functioning of society had to risk illness while the expendable people with unimportant jobs got a CoViD vacation. 

BE doesn't believe in the effectiveness of masks, so why is he posting "proof" that they didn't work?

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On 2/26/2021 at 10:26 PM, BlatantEcho said:

Posting here is like being in the middle of a flat earther convention.
You guys are just so convinced you're right - just badly ignoring all the data and science that says 'the earth is round'

 

The data appears, pretty convincingly at this point - that policy, mandates, and behavior - have no correlation with cases.

It's just there, plane as day.
The curves for California, Arizona and Nevada, are almost identical.  Yet they had completely different ... everything.

486b4cf9-bf34-4fee-ae14-4989e122e4ff.jpg.62bfd911d941ce8982365701c154f24b.jpg

 

Our how about southern states... same situation.  Totally different responses, mandates, policies...
Charts are almost identical.

73ef76c1-2bdb-4a17-a004-7bd247de84dd.jpg.d56bdef1a79e8c32fb7f6c09eab7777d.jpg

 

or look inside just...Southern California. Different policies, different dates... same curves

2d8f748a-45d1-4579-b939-cbe3b5d12833.jpg.ad57f97352b66e171f503302bc289a7e.jpg

 

 

At a *certain* point - you guys have to walk away from your dogma - and simply look at science and/or data.
Seriously.


After 14 months of this...  you guys, at *some* point - need to look around and say:  'huh, yeah, where is the correlation between policy/mandates/masks/lockdown and outcomes?'
At *some* point, people need to engage their brains.  

Seriously, this is embarrassing that groupthink prevents anyone from thinking critically or objectively.

Citation required please.

Got one of those nifty graphs that shown when borders were closed or when returned travellers were quarantined? My premise is that the US did a half-arse job, so licking around the edges wasn't going to have any mitigation affect.

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It's just the sniffles, everyone has been over-reacting, only the old and obese have died but they've got no value to society anyway.

image.thumb.png.17672da275108295059f473192195e5a.png

image.thumb.png.e926669d8057195d0b3fad9e152e81f7.png

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4 hours ago, Gissie said:

Our deaths were all from rest homes, the working part of the staff was how they got it. Those that died mainly where already terminal with other major co-morbidities.

My main point was that looking forward to a ripe old age doesn't always work out how we hoped. With today's tech we can prolong life for many years when those doing the actual living might prefer a different option. Unfortunately there is money to be made from keeping a body breathing until the bitter end.

I don't know your location. In my area, relatively few deaths are now in rest homes, nursing homes, etc. They tend to be over 50s living at home and often working, or over 70s in multigenerational households where the workers in the family bring it in. 

Advance directives. We have 'em. 

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23 hours ago, Gissie said:

Our deaths were all from rest homes, the working part of the staff was how they got it. Those that died mainly where already terminal with other major co-morbidities.

My main point was that looking forward to a ripe old age doesn't always work out how we hoped. With today's tech we can prolong life for many years when those doing the actual living might prefer a different option. Unfortunately there is money to be made from keeping a body breathing until the bitter end.

??

So, you get to make the decision when other people have lived long enough?

- DSK

 

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

??

So, you get to make the decision when other people have lived long enough?

- DSK

 

Are you really that fucking dumb? 

Of course you are, or is English your 7th language?

I, personally (that means my own only) opinion (thoughts about something) is that each life should be up to the owner of the life. No one else.

I also hoped that EYESAILOR gets his long and active life. Unfortunately that is not always the case. The end is now, far too often, a drawn out affair of indignity and pain relief. All for the dollar value someone else puts on it.

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8 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Are you really that fucking dumb? 

Of course you are, or is English your 7th language?

I, personally (that means my own only) opinion (thoughts about something) is that each life should be up to the owner of the life. No one else.

I also hoped that EYESAILOR gets his long and active life. Unfortunately that is not always the case. The end is now, far too often, a drawn out affair of indignity and pain relief. All for the dollar value someone else puts on it.

Is this a way of justifying your stupid selfishness about the coronavirus precautions are just for the fucking old people?

- DSK

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4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Is this a way of justifying your stupid selfishness about the coronavirus precautions are just for the fucking old people?

 

 

4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Is this a way of justifying your stupid selfishness about the coronavirus precautions are just for the fucking old people?

- DSK

Where did I ever say shit like that? If I did I would be happy to apologise.

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On 3/1/2021 at 6:55 AM, Gissie said:

Sometimes LB you seem to not engage your brain. On this it is pointless trying to respond so have a nice day.

So why did you respond? You likened covid to an end of life choice for elderly people. I was simply flaming you for being such a cunt. And a stupid cunt at that.

There is no need to take offence.

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

So why did you respond? You likened covid to an end of life choice for elderly people. I was simply flaming you for being such a cunt. And a stupid cunt at that.

There is no need to take offence.

Yeah, whatever. You and Flyer have the same problem with comprehension when it comes to this subject.

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2 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Yeah, whatever. You and Flyer have the same problem with comprehension when it comes to this subject.

How so? I understand perfectly what you are trying to say. Understanding that you are a moron, is not lacking comprehension. I am pro choice and when society is enlightened enough to allow the elderly to make their own decision about the end of their life, offering them a choice of exit strategies is a good idea but I doubt that 'drowning in the fluid in your lungs' will get much up take. Just out of interest, have you had children yet?

A chap called Darwin was a naturalist and he had a theroy about all kinds of mammals including your Elk.

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Masks and social distancing don't work. The flu has almost disappeared this year. There is no correlation whatever. Doing my best Blatant Asshole impression.  If people choose to read that clown why do you quote him? If you enjoy him come down a few doors to PA and read Mikey the Unaposter - it's nonstop shits and giggles.

And fwiw I know people who seemed healthy and were working who died from Covid or are now suffering long term effects (long haulers). Yes, it's almost sure death for those seriously ill but can wreck havoc on those who weren't.   We have some real cunts on this forum who seem to take pride in proving it daily which is why I rarely bother reading it anymore. The ignore feature is awesome.

 

 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

How so? I understand perfectly what you are trying to say. Understanding that you are a moron, is not lacking comprehension. I am pro choice and when society is enlightened enough to allow the elderly to make their own decision about the end of their life, offering them a choice of exit strategies is a good idea but I doubt that 'drowning in the fluid in your lungs' will get much up take. Just out of interest, have you had children yet?

A chap called Darwin was a naturalist and he had a theroy about all kinds of mammals including your Elk.

And where have I suggested that I think drowning in fluid is a good idea? Oh yeah, I haven't. Apart from in your little mind. Trying to get you to understand my point is, well, pointless. Much like Flyer, you will read and understand what you want me to say. Nothing else will suit your little pile of grey matter.

As for having kids, yeah, plus I have had the end of life talks with them for years. As I know from personal experience, you never know when the reaper will knock.

As for Darwin, your knowledge seems about as limited as your ideas on what I think. It was far more than just mammals he was talking about. Then the old elk call. What a free get put of jail card that is these days. Just claim they are part of the elk and you can justify whatever behaviour you want. Similar to how the Nazis dealt with the Jews and gypsies. You would slot straight in there LB.

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17 hours ago, Gissie said:

Yeah, whatever. You and Flyer have the same problem with comprehension when it comes to this subject.

Dang, I am being given the high accolade of being put int he same league with LB15, but praise from a moron does take off a bit of the shine

- DSK

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Dang, I am being given the high accolade of being put int he same league with LB15, but praise from a moron does take off a bit of the shine

- DSK

Yet still no evidence of your claim of what I said. If one of the elk behaved like this you would be deriding them as typical assholes. When you do it, all is good. False accusations against those that might think differently is okay if it is you doing it.

Sweet as, no skin off my nose, just own it and be proud.

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On 2/27/2021 at 12:37 PM, Matagi said:

Interesting. Have you got a link, by chance?

Another link, saying the same thing - this time the Washington Post; https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/02/04/covid-vaccine-trial-results-hospitalization/ 

Kind of makes the question of efficacy irrelevant since the vaccines appear to prevent severe illness.  At least to anyone who has taken one of the vaccines

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We will see if its getting better on its own in Texas. And Mississippi. No masks required, businesses open all the way up. Yippee ki yay yey muhfuh.

 

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The group think is strong here.  

50 million people all repeating something stupid - doesn't make it fact.


You've all been had.


I'm sorry, it's just the plain, scientific data.

Remember the Super Bowl spike predictions?
College Football super spreader events decrees?
New variants will kill us all. UK, South Africa!
'Florida reopening will make it a morgue'
'CDC saying: If we just wear masks for 4, 6, 8 weeks, Covid will go away'
 

All of it was wrong.
All of it.

 

--
Why can't rational, grown adults (I assume everyone here fits into that category)... start to look at the data yourselves and ask questions??

If you're all into science, testing hypothesis, why not observe the data and ask questions:

  • 'huh, yeah, it does appear there is limited correlation to lockdown and cases..... interesting'
  • 'If masks worked, then there should be clear correlation in the data - but it's not there.  Strange'
  • 'yeah, it's true, different states had completely different responses, but the curves are the same, why is that?'
  • 'Yeah, the stuff that the CDC predicted would happen when states reopened, didn't actually happen... huh'
  • 'Weird, the curves of California and Florida are really similar (Florida did better). Why?

 

Instead of just repeating what you all hear on CNN or read in the NYTimes (the Netflix of journalism I heard it called now).
Why not do your OWN analysis?

Don't just believe the story you've been told for the last year.  Do you OWN research.
Why just buy the party story, hook line and sinker? What good does that do anyone?

You've all moralized this, instead of following the science or data at all.  It's the damnedest thing.
You all made it political, instead of responding to the science and saying 'wow, yeah, clearly none of these policies does anything'

 

Seriously.  
Why keep making excuses for every single situation where the outcome isn't what the officials said?




 

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14 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

We will see if its getting better on its own in Texas. And Mississippi. No masks required, businesses open all the way up. Yippee ki yay yey muhfuh.

 

Yes, here we go......

This won't end well.

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2 minutes ago, Keith said:

Yes, here we go......

This won't end well.

Yep - currently in Houston it's 11%, 5% is the benchmark for relaxing behaviors. While the rate has decreased for some time it is still above last September when people finally realized there was a real crisis.  Sigh.

Who Was That Masked Man?     The Lone d'ranger continuing to wear it until conditions allow not to.

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20 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Yep - currently in Houston it's 11%, 5% is the benchmark for relaxing behaviors. While the rate has decreased for some time it is still above last September when people finally realized there was a real crisis.  Sigh.

Who Was That Masked Man?     The Lone d'ranger continuing to wear it until conditions allow not to.

That's the best choice, some of these new variants are much more efficient at spreading around.

Stay safe.

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6 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

The group think is strong here.  

50 million people all repeating something stupid - doesn't make it fact.


You've all been had.


I'm sorry, it's just the plain, scientific data.

Remember the Super Bowl spike predictions?
College Football super spreader events decrees?
New variants will kill us all. UK, South Africa!
'Florida reopening will make it a morgue'
'CDC saying: If we just wear masks for 4, 6, 8 weeks, Covid will go away'
 

All of it was wrong.
All of it.

....

Yes, it's all wrong, which is why nobody said that except maybe Sen. Ted Cruz

Nobody said new variants will kill us all.

There have been spikes after large public events, including Florida beaches.

The CDC never said "it will go away."

You're just full of shit because the point you're trying to make is fantasy. Somebody's been had, indeed..... maybe it's all the people who believe a President who said it was a hoax and that it's no worse than the common cold, then secretly got a vaccine

- DSK

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On 2/26/2021 at 10:26 PM, BlatantEcho said:

Posting here is like being in the middle of a flat earther convention.
You guys are just so convinced you're right - just badly ignoring all the data and science that says 'the earth is round'

 

The data appears, pretty convincingly at this point - that policy, mandates, and behavior - have no correlation with cases.

It's just there, plane as day.
The curves for California, Arizona and Nevada, are almost identical.  Yet they had completely different ... everything.

486b4cf9-bf34-4fee-ae14-4989e122e4ff.jpg.62bfd911d941ce8982365701c154f24b.jpg

 

Our how about southern states... same situation.  Totally different responses, mandates, policies...
Charts are almost identical.

73ef76c1-2bdb-4a17-a004-7bd247de84dd.jpg.d56bdef1a79e8c32fb7f6c09eab7777d.jpg

 

or look inside just...Southern California. Different policies, different dates... same curves

2d8f748a-45d1-4579-b939-cbe3b5d12833.jpg.ad57f97352b66e171f503302bc289a7e.jpg

 

 

At a *certain* point - you guys have to walk away from your dogma - and simply look at science and/or data.
Seriously.


After 14 months of this...  you guys, at *some* point - need to look around and say:  'huh, yeah, where is the correlation between policy/mandates/masks/lockdown and outcomes?'
At *some* point, people need to engage their brains.  

Seriously, this is embarrassing that groupthink prevents anyone from thinking critically or objectively.

Don't let your uninformed opinion get in the way of the truth...

https://apnews.com/article/rochelle-walensky-coronavirus-pandemic-fe2e65c19506b99ebdb8f1e0badc846b

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On 3/3/2021 at 11:09 AM, Keith said:

That's the best choice, some of these new variants are much more efficient at spreading around.

Stay safe.

The epidemiologists I have read indicate that evolution of the virus has a pretty standard path. Over time the more contagious strains take over but generally speaking they will be less deadly. Both make sense in a Darwinian way, strains that are less contagious and that kill their hosts die off. 

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