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9 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

It is kind of funny that the states with rising cases there, all did hard lockdowns repeatedly.

 

It's... almost... as.... if.... lockdowns....do.... nothing.
In fact, in many cases, they just appear to make it worse. Boom / bust cycles.


The mainstream corporate journalists you guys love, is finally catching on to this too:

Virus tolls similar despite governors’ contrasting actions (Associated Press)

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/europe-coronavirus-surge-cautionary-tale-for-us-051e996d5b7e31711bb741e2f9ba724f

Experts: Virus surge in Europe a cautionary tale for US

 

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Posting here is like being in the middle of a flat earther convention. You guys are just so convinced you're right - just badly ignoring all the data and science that says 'the earth is round'

I think this is an example of the most insidious and selfish behavior possible. You are lumping the risks of ALL age groups, into one, homogenous group. This is, of course, wildly inaccurate.

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3 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Yet cases and deaths keep going down.  

Masks / lockdown work though, right?

770979469_ScreenShot2021-03-19at6_21_00AM.thumb.png.840a1fd3627ca60530eeaae7e4685da3.png1245874899_ScreenShot2021-03-19at6_19_53AM.thumb.png.cb9eca17502f3234d0c0480863250d2f.png

The US never really locked down. Trips to shop, go to doctor were allowed. Other stuff was encouraged or "required" like self quarantine after travel but not enforced except in Hawaii.  Hawaii did well covidwise btw. It was other NHS countries that kept people a few km from home. 

5000 new cases a day may be down from horrific 15000 but is hardly LOW in absolute terms. Duh.

Their total cases are a horror show. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102807/coronavirus-covid19-cases-number-us-americans-by-state/

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I love how the goalposts keep moving.

Ok, so, it's not about deaths. In 2020, we stopped caring about that
But 'cases'. Got to keep cases down (because every idiot knows cases are correlated to deaths, or... they used to be)
 

These are non-presenting cases of course.
Not people in hospitals.
Not anyone sick.  
Just someone who tested positive.

 

And the media keeps selling this story, and god damn, everyone on this website keeps buying.

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The test for Texas, will be in about a month.     This bug is different then most epidemics, since so many cases are asymptomatic.   It builds quietly in the background until a critical mass is reached.  Last year's Spring Break hospital bump in most communities was 6 weeks later if I recall the CDC report.   I notice that Ohio vaccine data shows 50-60 year olds are vaccinating at a higher rate then 60-64 year olds, even though they've only had 8 days of eligibility.   If the 40 year olds and such are also smarter then the boomers, things will improve.   If a few extra boomers darwin before collecting much social security benefit, so much the better.  

In other news Japan has been very slow on vaccine, since their fatality rate to date is something like 60 / 100,000 people.    Earlier this week they just opened up their first group:  people over 100.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lark said:

The test for Texas, will be in about a month.     This bug is different then most epidemics, since so many cases are asymptomatic.   It builds quietly in the background until a critical mass is reached.  Last year's Spring Break hospital bump in most communities was 6 weeks later if I recall the CDC report.   I notice that Ohio vaccine data shows 50-60 year olds are vaccinating at a higher rate then 60-64 year olds, even though they've only had 8 days of eligibility.   If the 40 year olds and such are also smarter then the boomers, things will improve.   If a few extra boomers darwin before collecting much social security benefit, so much the better.  

In other news Japan has been very slow on vaccine, since their fatality rate to date is something like 60 / 100,000 people.    Earlier this week they just opened up their first group:  people over 100.

 

 

 

>80,000 of ‘em!

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9 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

I love how the goalposts keep moving.

Ok, so, it's not about deaths. In 2020, we stopped caring about that......

I love how you live in an alternate reality...  >550,000 dead USAnians is not enough??

Oh yeah and "masks don't work" either... great, so take the air filter off your car, too

- DSK

 

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

I love how you live in an alternate reality...  >550,000 dead USAnians is not enough??

Oh yeah and "masks don't work" either... great, so take the air filter off your car, too

- DSK

 

Can't fix stupid, can't stop them from posting, can ignore them. Bullshit Asshole just keeps posting the same old crap over and over.

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20 hours ago, Lark said:

The test for Texas, will be in about a month.     This bug is different then most epidemics, since so many cases are asymptomatic.   It builds quietly in the background until a critical mass is reached.  Last year's Spring Break hospital bump in most communities was 6 weeks later if I recall the CDC report. 

I will be honest, this is the saddest reply I've read in years....
 

You just said:
1) "the data showed no rise in cases after spring break 2020. "
2) I think there should have been a rise (because I don't approve of the action)
3) 1.5 months after the event where cases didn't rise - then they did!  So, it HAD to be THAT event 1.5 months ago.
4) If I change the incubation period of a virus from 2 weeks to 6 weeks, then my data matches with the CDC reported cases.
 

You are, quite literally, changing the inputs you put in, to get the outputs you want!
My god.  
No science.
No data.
No facts.


You just utterly changed the entire facts, to suit your message that 'spring break caused a rise in cases'


This is why the media LOVES you guys.
Your conclusion is already made in your mind: you'll confirm it, in the most insane way possible, to validate your feelings.
 

You heard it here first everyone: 
6 weeks after an event, that's when you see a rise in cases
(but, only if it's an activity @Lark doesn't approve of)


We wonder why the world is falling apart in hysteria, mania and idiocy. 
"Follow the science" - actually means 'follow the stupid'

 

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19 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I love how you live in an alternate reality...  >550,000 dead USAnians is not enough??

Oh yeah and "masks don't work" either... great, so take the air filter off your car, too

- DSK

 

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/elementary-school-teachers-filing-3-times-as-many-covid-19-infection-claims-as-secondary-teachers-union-1.5349608

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On 3/20/2021 at 8:14 AM, Lark said:

The test for Texas, will be in about a month.     This bug is different then most epidemics, since so many cases are asymptomatic.   It builds quietly in the background until a critical mass is reached.  Last year's Spring Break hospital bump in most communities was 6 weeks later if I recall the CDC report.   I notice that Ohio vaccine data shows 50-60 year olds are vaccinating at a higher rate then 60-64 year olds, even though they've only had 8 days of eligibility.   If the 40 year olds and such are also smarter then the boomers, things will improve.   If a few extra boomers darwin before collecting much social security benefit, so much the better.  

In other news Japan has been very slow on vaccine, since their fatality rate to date is something like 60 / 100,000 people.    Earlier this week they just opened up their first group:  people over 100.

 

 

 

OK Boomers, Lark?   :mellow:

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4 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

.....    ...

"Follow the science" - actually means 'follow the stupid'

 

Th-th-th-that's all, folks!

Ask Sen. Rand Paul if you should wear a mask, he's WAY-Y smarter than Dr. Fauci... just ask him!

Reality and truth have a PROVEN libby-rull bias!

- DSK

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On 3/19/2021 at 5:22 AM, BlatantEcho said:

Yet cases and deaths keep going down.  

Masks / lockdown work though, right?

770979469_ScreenShot2021-03-19at6_21_00AM.thumb.png.840a1fd3627ca60530eeaae7e4685da3.png1245874899_ScreenShot2021-03-19at6_19_53AM.thumb.png.cb9eca17502f3234d0c0480863250d2f.png

Definitely getting worse in my neck of the woods.  Cases are up significantly in BC.  I forget, does that mean that masks work, or don't work?  Or don't work when they aren't used?

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And now for the third waves in those countries that have not managed to get going with vaccines. Roughly 50% in the US have either had covid or first vaccine dose (both enough to prevent most symtomatic cases and all serious cases and deaths). So we still have 50% available to be infected and several states show that clearly (Michigan for example). 

The disaster that is Brazil should be enough to get Bolsonaro kicked to the gutter.

Screen Shot 2021-03-22 at 6.43.41 AM.png

Screen Shot 2021-03-22 at 6.44.17 AM.png

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17 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

And this is late to the party, but as far as "lots of people die from the flu every year, these people would have died anyway" well covid killed 8x as many as the worst recent US flu season. 

https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-people-die-flu/

According to the CDC, “only counting deaths where influenza was recorded on a death certificate would be a gross underestimation of influenza’s true impact.”

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18 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

And this is late to the party, but as far as "lots of people die from the flu every year, these people would have died anyway" well covid killed 8x as many as the worst recent US flu season. 

https://usafacts.org/articles/how-many-people-die-flu/

You also over look the fact that there are significant differences in classification between a flu and a Covid-19 death.

Comparatively very little testing is done to confirm the presence OR absence of the influenza virus.  The only way to accurately compare is to have done similar levels of PCR testing for influenza in the years prior to Covid-19.

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7 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Here is some data on the relative impact of Covid-19:

 

DeadliestPandemicsbyPopulation-DatastreamSupplemental-1-1.thumb.jpg.a9ba4d89d05e8a515afcc89609d87707.jpg

I question the black death numbers.    I think they took total estimated deaths over many years, even decades, and compared that to the total population of one moment in time.   This invalidates the percent of the population calculation.  I didn't check on the others, smallpox might be similar.     

Edit.   I'm pretty sure they did this, or something similar for the Plague of Justinian.   Your source may or may not have lied, but it clearly played lose with numbers and math.  The Plague of Justinian was relatively localized but ebbed and flowed for two centuries.   The Justinianic Plague's Devastating Impact Was Likely Exaggerated | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine

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11 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Here is some data on the relative impact of Covid-19:

 

DeadliestPandemicsbyPopulation-DatastreamSupplemental-1-1.thumb.jpg.a9ba4d89d05e8a515afcc89609d87707.jpg

Can you normalise that data per year?

For example, Spanish Flu was from early 1918 to mid 1920*. Also some estimates have the death toll as low as 17 million, and as high as 100 million. So there's that...

HIV/Aids - 32 million SINCE 1981...fuck me sideways!

Yikes, that graph is so distorted it is bordering on useless, except as tool of propaganda.

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55 minutes ago, Ncik said:

For example, Spanish Flu was from early 1918 to mid 1920

That is incorrect.  It was largely between 1918 and 1919.  There were three seasonal waves that varied in timing across hemispheres.  It lasted between 1 and two years.  There were exceptions for example New York City last longer and had a fourth wave.  Some countries had three waves within one year and that was the duration of the pandemic for them with the second being the significant one.

However there is some debate about the number of waves.  The significant period of the majority of infection and deaths was in the northern hemisphere winter of 1918-1919.

There is also evidence that the Spanish Virus wasn't just one virus but two-three seasons of a number of Type A and Type B Influenza viruses.  

The seminal work on Influenza Epidemics was written by R. Edgar Hope-Simpson - The Transmission Of Epidemic Influenza and is well worth a read.  It is available online as a free e-book.  It certainly puts into perspective Covid-19 vs the history of Influenza epidemics.  Also the similarities are striking.

Footnote:  Hope-Simpson was the first to accurately describe the origin of Shingles linking it to the Herpes zoster virus and Chicken Pox.

 

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57 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That is incorrect.  It was largely between 1918 and 1919.  There were three seasonal waves that varied in timing across hemispheres.  It lasted between 1 and two years.  There were exceptions for example New York City last longer and had a fourth wave.  Some countries had three waves within one year and that was the duration of the pandemic for them with the second being the significant one.

However there is some debate about the number of waves.  The significant period of the majority of infection and deaths was in the northern hemisphere winter of 1918-1919.

There is also evidence that the Spanish Virus wasn't just one virus but two-three seasons of a number of Type A and Type B Influenza viruses.  

The seminal work on Influenza Epidemics was written by R. Edgar Hope-Simpson - The Transmission Of Epidemic Influenza and is well worth a read.  It is available online as a free e-book.  It certainly puts into perspective Covid-19 vs the history of Influenza epidemics.  Also the similarities are striking.

Footnote:  Hope-Simpson was the first to accurately describe the origin of Shingles linking it to the Herpes zoster virus and Chicken Pox.

 

"between 1918 and 1919" is quite vague, is that 1 year or 2 years?

We're very lucky that Covid does not have the death statistics of Spanish Flu, especially the ages affected, but it isn't over yet and different variants are still developing. That's not the point of my statement.

BE posted bullshit propaganda that tries to make a legit comparison with many historical epidemics, but fails miserably for the reasons outlined (length of epidemic isn't accounted for). Do you care to comment on that aspect of the data?

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13 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Here is some data on the relative impact of Covid-19:

 

DeadliestPandemicsbyPopulation-DatastreamSupplemental-1-1.thumb.jpg.a9ba4d89d05e8a515afcc89609d87707.jpg

BE, everytime you search and post this shit you are making yourself dumber and exploiting other dumb people by reinforcing propaganda. Please stop.

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7 hours ago, Ncik said:

BE, everytime you search and post this shit you are making yourself dumber and exploiting other dumb people by reinforcing propaganda. Please stop.

I'm sorry I can't make you guys use facts, logic or science :(

 

I will keep trying.
 

The first world has killed and hurt so many people around the world with their selfish actions.


I will keep trying to stand up and defend the poor and powerless from your tyranny of safety.
This was the most awful power grab in human history - for the benefit of yourself and your own people.

 

As greedy as they come, and loving every minute of it, all of you.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BlatantEcho said:

As greedy as they come, and loving every minute of it, all of you.

 

 

Remind me, weren't you the one using PCR tests provided FOR FREE by the Portuguese gvt., so that you could hop back from the islands to the mainland and continue on your Grand World Tour to Ecuador and beyond?

Don't pretend to be any better than us. 

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10 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That is incorrect.  It was largely between 1918 and 1919....

 

You're a fucking liar

There were 3 distinct waves of Spanish Flu in te US East Coast metro areas, and four waves in other areas, and it extended over about 3 years

- DSK

 

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

You're a fucking liar

There were 3 distinct waves of Spanish Flu in te US East Coast metro areas, and four waves in other areas, and it extended over about 3 years

- DSK

 

I'm not a fucking liar.  Unlike you I do my research and don't rely on Wikipedia.  I gave you a good reference to read.  I suggest you read it.

New York was NOT representative of the duration of the Spanish Flu Pandemic.

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And BTW, remember the swarming superpreader Florida spring breakers mostly will not get sick or die in Florida.  They will fly home incubating, maybe even in that most infectious period, then give it to people back where they came from.  And to people they exposed on the plane and at the airports and their contacts.  So Florida can say "we opened up no problem"!  That's externalities, folks.

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3 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

And BTW, remember the swarming superpreader Florida spring breakers mostly will not get sick or die in Florida.  They will fly home incubating, maybe even in that most infectious period, then give it to people back where they came from. 

Well if they are from NY or NJ they will have already had Covid-19 BEFORE they got to Florida!

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54 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Everyone around here knows your fucking days are long gone.

Another superb ad hominem attack and threat from Matagi.  What particular part of the Spanish Flu was I lying about?  Let's deal in facts here.

Spanish Flu Pandemic in 10 UK Cities - from R. Edgar Hope-Simpson.  Note:  NOT three years.  SO which part of my statement was a lie?

 

image.png.bc52237bf3a44867b9d653dd619ec8a0.png

USA Cities.

image.png.e01c1cc392698660fa21790e26fcf70a.png

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12 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

I'm sorry I can't make you guys use facts, logic or science :(

 

I will keep trying.
 

The first world has killed and hurt so many people around the world with their selfish actions.


I will keep trying to stand up and defend the poor and powerless from your tyranny of safety.
This was the most awful power grab in human history - for the benefit of yourself and your own people.

 

As greedy as they come, and loving every minute of it, all of you.

 

 

How's that pandemic yearly rate comparison coming along? Show us how you can science the shit of it.

...didn't think so...

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5 hours ago, Matagi said:

Everyone around here knows your fucking days are long gone.

I disagree. I’d have no issues with dumping Blatant Echo, but the Kate/Bob sock puppet isn’t spreading bullshit, merely arguing with some facts that don’t add up. 
 

Assclowns like Trump only talk to people who agree with them. I’d like to think that the average sailor is smart enough to cope with a dissenting opinion. Be better people than Trump. 

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57 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I disagree. I’d have no issues with dumping Blatant Echo, but the Kate/Bob sock puppet isn’t spreading bullshit, merely arguing with some facts that don’t add up. 
 

Assclowns like Trump only talk to people who agree with them. I’d like to think that the average sailor is smart enough to cope with a dissenting opinion. Be better people than Trump. 

The problem with Mikey is that his bullshit does not add up... and it's consistently on the side of causing harm

Dissent is one thing. Giving out hand grenades is entirely another

- DSK

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

The problem with Mikey is that his bullshit does not add up... and it's consistently on the side of causing harm

Dissent is one thing. Giving out hand grenades is entirely another

- DSK

Totally agree!

You guys handed out hand-grenades to the rest of the world, with the pin pulled.

 

And you *still* don't understand the cost of your actions.
Just smugly sitting warm and comfortable at home, while the world burns.

 

Talk about causing harm. No one caused it more harm, to more people, than people like you spreading fear to every corner of the world.  Fauci, Trump, CDC, Xi.  All of those people should be held to account for this.  

 

But, instead, you all cheer your leaders and rulers. You fucking love it.

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16 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

...while the world burns.

You don't think the world would burn with a highly infectious and deadly respiratory virus running rampant.

What do you think the leaders of the world were going to do when businesses started failing due to a workforce that was sick for a few weeks, all at once, one and off for 12+ months?

What do you think society was going to do when hundreds of thousands of people started dying?

What do you think the hospitals were going to do when they got inundated with patients for 12+ months straight? Can you imagine the uproar from doctors and nurses? How do you think the US medical insurance industry were going to react?

Treating the risks seriously and trying to control it is/was the only viable course of action. All options were bad, but some were less bad than others.

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17 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Totally agree!

You guys handed out hand-grenades to the rest of the world, with the pin pulled.

 

And you *still* don't understand the cost of your actions.
Just smugly sitting warm and comfortable at home, while the world burns.

 

Talk about causing harm. No one caused it more harm, to more people, than people like you spreading fear to every corner of the world.  Fauci, Trump, CDC, Xi.  All of those people should be held to account for this.  

 

But, instead, you all cheer your leaders and rulers. You fucking love it.

What kind of drugs are you on?

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7 hours ago, Ncik said:

You don't think the world would burn with a highly infectious and deadly respiratory virus running rampant.

What do you think the leaders of the world were going to do when businesses started failing due to a workforce that was sick for a few weeks, all at once, one and off for 12+ months?

What do you think society was going to do when hundreds of thousands of people started dying?

What do you think the hospitals were going to do when they got inundated with patients for 12+ months straight? Can you imagine the uproar from doctors and nurses? How do you think the US medical insurance industry were going to react?

Treating the risks seriously and trying to control it is/was the only viable course of action. All options were bad, but some were less bad than others.

You can't prove a counter-factual, so, I guess will never know.

 

But, looking at the data, it's pretty clear that over-reacting to a very mild virus, hurt more people than it helped.
 

There is no evidence lockdowns do anything.
There is little evidence masks do anything.
 

There is solid evidence they make everything worse.

'Do nothing' likely would have been a much much much better strategy for the world.
That is fairly clear right now - to everyone except you chicken little types and the upper class.

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‘Sad Milestone’, Report Says COVID-19 Fatalities Now Leading Cause Of Death In Dallas County 

 

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2021/03/24/covid-19-fatalities-leading-cause-death-dallas-county/

 

EU leaders faced with surge of infections, vaccine issues

 

https://apnews.com/article/pandemics-europe-global-trade-united-kingdom-coronavirus-pandemic-f0f2e31638dc92b56ac5b83d26056054

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9 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

You can't prove a counter-factual, so, I guess will never know.

 

But, looking at the data, it's pretty clear that over-reacting to a very mild virus, hurt more people than it helped.
 

There is no evidence lockdowns do anything.
There is little evidence masks do anything.
 

There is solid evidence they make everything worse.

'Do nothing' likely would have been a much much much better strategy for the world.
That is fairly clear right now - to everyone except you chicken little types and the upper class.

4f114cde-f1c0-4752-8a9e-876426c5f3c8.jpg

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13 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

There is no evidence lockdowns do anything.

Except the places that had real lock-downs and turned around rampant spread of infections.

 

Good to see you're still not answering direct questions.

  1. Can you normalise the propaganda epidemic comparison graph you posted to a per year rate?
  2. How do YOU think the pandemic would've evolved if nothing was done to prevent it spreading? Alternatively, what would the world look like now, 12 months on since the start of the pandemic, if we'd all just gone about our lives?

I'll give you my thoughts on question 2, albeit with a western perspective.

  1. Hospitals would be bursting at the seams. Normal health outcomes out the window and preventable diseases being untreated.
  2. People would be heavily restricting personal interactions.
  3. Travel would be massively diminished.
    1. Airlines and the entire travel industry would be asking for government handouts to stay afloat.
    2. Many tourism businesses would be bust.
  4. Business, particularly those reliant on human interaction (restaurants, sports, etc), would be failing due to reduced patronage. It would even need to be a huge reduction to tip them over the edge.
  5. Uncertainty increases massively. Confidence in society drops. Investments and spending dry up.
  6. Many old persons and those with a medical condition would be dead or incapacitated for atleast some amount of time. Aging western populations have business owners, political and other leaders in this demographic. Younger persons have to step up.
  7. Businesses pop-up or evolve to accommodate the new normal.

Your turn now BE.

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29 minutes ago, Ncik said:
13 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

There is no evidence lockdowns do anything.

Except the places that had real lock-downs and turned around rampant spread of infections.

Mr Echo is not going to give sensible answers to questions that actually require a grasp of reality

Anybody who says lockdowns and masks don't work obviously is dwelling in La-La Land

- DSK

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18 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

You can't prove a counter-factual, so, I guess will never know.

 

But, looking at the data, it's pretty clear that over-reacting to a very mild virus, hurt more people than it helped.
 

There is no evidence lockdowns do anything.
There is little evidence masks do anything.
 

There is solid evidence they make everything worse.

'Do nothing' likely would have been a much much much better strategy for the world.
That is fairly clear right now - to everyone except you chicken little types and the upper class.

Well, that proves it then.

Or maybe doing nothing would have been much much much worse.  That is fairly clear right now to everyone except you science-ignorant types.

See if you can convince our own @hobotthat this is a mild virus, assuming he survives after being intubated.

But carry on bullshitting, and being a self-righteous jerk.

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11 hours ago, Ncik said:

Answers embedded in bold.

Good to see you're still not answering direct questions.

  1. Can you normalise the propaganda epidemic comparison graph you posted to a per year rate?
    (you're trying to discredit data, by asking a bad question. The world population is growing by ~130,000 people per DAY.  Of the 150,000 people every day who die, 1-2% have Covid.  It's a non-event)
     
  2. How do YOU think the pandemic would've evolved if nothing was done to prevent it spreading?
    Many more people would be alive, and a lot less suffering would have occurred.  I think that's a demonstrable fact by now.
    Here is a very well documented article on just this: https://www.city-journal.org/death-and-lockdowns


     Alternatively, what would the world look like now, 12 months on since the start of the pandemic, if we'd all just gone about our lives?
    I bet we wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for social media spreading anecdotal fear, our politicians 'doing something' and the media pushing scary headlines.  I am 100% sure we simply would not have noticed. 

I'll give you my thoughts on question 2, albeit with a western perspective.

  1. Hospitals would be bursting at the seams. Normal health outcomes out the window and preventable diseases being untreated.
    lol, pure conjecture.  show your work, show data that shows why this would have happened.
    All the models that predicted it, were wrong, and this didn't happen in countries that did not lockdown.
  2. People would be heavily restricting personal interactions.
    Why? Do they do that with flu?  Or swine flu, or zika?
     
  3. Travel would be massively diminished.
    1. Airlines and the entire travel industry would be asking for government handouts to stay afloat.
    2. Many tourism businesses would be bust.
      Uhm, you're proving the opposite point.  This is what happened WITH lockdown and panic.
      If we had not lockdown, or panicked about a virus with a 99.XX% survival rate - the world would have carried on like normal.
      That's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED DUE TO LOCKDOWN POLICY.

       
  4. Business, particularly those reliant on human interaction (restaurants, sports, etc), would be failing due to reduced patronage. It would even need to be a huge reduction to tip them over the edge.
    That's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED DUE TO LOCKDOWN POLICY.
     
  5. Uncertainty increases massively. Confidence in society drops. Investments and spending dry up.
    That's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED DUE TO LOCKDOWN POLICY.
     
  6. Many old persons and those with a medical condition would be dead or incapacitated for atleast some amount of time. Aging western populations have business owners, political and other leaders in this demographic. Younger persons have to step up.
    We punished everyone, and the most vulnerable died.  The poor, the working class, the mental health suffers.  Those with cancer, chemical dependencies. 
    We sacrificed them, so the laptop/zoom class could feel safe.

     
  7. Businesses pop-up or evolve to accommodate the new normal.
    This doesn't make any sense.  Is this a question, a statement?

Your turn now BE.

 

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1 hour ago, BlatantEcho said:
12 hours ago, Ncik said:

Good to see you're still not answering direct questions.

  1. Can you normalise the propaganda epidemic comparison graph you posted to a per year rate?
     ...   ...

you're trying to discredit data, by asking a bad question. The world population is growing by ~130,000 people per DAY.  Of the 150,000 people every day who die, 1-2% have Covid.

You are truly a dumbshit who cannot do basic math

Even making up numbers, you can't come close to getting it right. 2% of 150,000 is what, exactly??

Answer: (because you can't) 2,500

Recently, more people than that have been dying IN THE US ALONE of covid. So the world total must be considerably higher.

Duh

- DSK

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Have to wonder how BE thinks China managed, and still manages, to keep the coronavirus down. And he must be completely puzzled as to why Australian cities and provinces periodically lockdown when a viral escape from quarantine occurs. Indeed, why even bother with quarantine? Let alone New Zealand, what on earth are they, Kate and all, so afraid of. Beats me, since BE and Kate think everyone else is making too big a deal of this virus.

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2 hours ago, TheDragon said:

Let alone New Zealand, what on earth are they, Kate and all, so afraid of. Beats me, since BE and Kate think everyone else is making too big a deal of this virus.

Typical response from someone driven entirely by self interest.  Where have I said that "everyone else is making too big a deal of this virus"?  You play the card that anyone who disagrees with your approach is a Covid denier or flat earth anti-vaxxer.  I assure you I'm neither.  

The difference in opinion is based on what works and what doesn't work in pandemic management.  Your position is driven by self interest - you've stated if not gloated many times about how you are retired, over 65 with comorbidity's, want to travel the world again and go kite surfing.  You've never expressed any interest in those who are not in that position and are happy for everyone else to suffer the cost of protecting you.  What is even more disturbing is you support actions that cause harm to others in the belief they protect you when the evidence shows that they don't.  That's the "Big Deal"!

With regard to Australia and New Zealand they have still to deal with the Pandemic.  At extreme cost to their economies and the health of their citizens they have locked themselves behind their moats.  Covid has done that - politicians have done it.  They and their health bureaucrats have conned their citizens into believing that if everyone gets the vaccine things will be back to normal and thousands of lives will have been saved.  You watch - once reality hits and the population has had enough the respective Governments will stop testing for Covid and you will see the Covilympic medal charts disappear.  Why?  Because they know that even with a vaccinated population that Covid cases and deaths will still occur.

In that regard there is no guarantee that your vaccination will work for you.  I guess you are relying on Government advice in assessing the risk to YOU in travelling the world with your kite?  If not then you must be aware that there is very little chance of you travelling the world anytime soon unless you are willing to accept the risk.  A risk that if you were a healthy individual under the age of 65 would be substantially less than the residual risk that you assume the vaccine give you.

I find it appalling that someone such as yourself with what you tell us is a science background promotes the vaccination of low risk individuals such as children and our youth well before any phase 3 trials have been completed.  Has that ever ever happened in the history of vaccination before?  Again that promotion is purely self interest on your part.

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On 3/26/2021 at 9:12 PM, BlatantEcho said:

Answers embedded in bold.

Good to see you're still not answering direct questions.

  1. Can you normalise the propaganda epidemic comparison graph you posted to a per year rate?
    (you're trying to discredit data, by asking a bad question. The world population is growing by ~130,000 people per DAY.  Of the 150,000 people every day who die, 1-2% have Covid.  It's a non-event) How is this a bad question? AIDS has been around since the 60s, so comparing 50+ years of disease and death to a pandemic that's been around for 1 year isn't a valid comparison, unless you normalise by date (ie, just divide the deaths by number of years for a simple comparison, but there's probably a better method for such long enduring epidemics).
  2. How do YOU think the pandemic would've evolved if nothing was done to prevent it spreading?
    Many more people would be alive, and a lot less suffering would have occurred.  I think that's a demonstrable fact by now.
    Here is a very well documented article on just this: https://www.city-journal.org/death-and-lockdowns


     Alternatively, what would the world look like now, 12 months on since the start of the pandemic, if we'd all just gone about our lives?
    I bet we wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for social media spreading anecdotal fear, our politicians 'doing something' and the media pushing scary headlines.  I am 100% sure we simply would not have noticed. 

I'll give you my thoughts on question 2, albeit with a western perspective.

  1. Hospitals would be bursting at the seams. Normal health outcomes out the window and preventable diseases being untreated.
    lol, pure conjecture.  show your work, show data that shows why this would have happened.
    All the models that predicted it, were wrong, and this didn't happen in countries that did not lockdown. Are you listening to your countries doctors? Have you not read reports of hospitals around the world struggling to support the influx of Covid patients? Or are you dismissing those reports as media fluff?
  2. People would be heavily restricting personal interactions.
    Why? Do they do that with flu?  Or swine flu, or zika?
     
  3. Travel would be massively diminished.
    1. Airlines and the entire travel industry would be asking for government handouts to stay afloat.
    2. Many tourism businesses would be bust.
      Uhm, you're proving the opposite point.  This is what happened WITH lockdown and panic.
      If we had not lockdown, or panicked about a virus with a 99.XX% survival rate - the world would have carried on like normal.
      That's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED DUE TO LOCKDOWN POLICY. Local tourism has been off the hook. Anecdotally, tourism operators I know of are busier than ever. The reason being that locals can't travel internationally, so are spending those big airfare bucks at local tourist spots.

       
  4. Business, particularly those reliant on human interaction (restaurants, sports, etc), would be failing due to reduced patronage. It would even need to be a huge reduction to tip them over the edge.
    That's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED DUE TO LOCKDOWN POLICY.
     
  5. Uncertainty increases massively. Confidence in society drops. Investments and spending dry up.
    That's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED DUE TO LOCKDOWN POLICY.
     
  6. Many old persons and those with a medical condition would be dead or incapacitated for atleast some amount of time. Aging western populations have business owners, political and other leaders in this demographic. Younger persons have to step up.
    We punished everyone, and the most vulnerable died.  The poor, the working class, the mental health suffers.  Those with cancer, chemical dependencies. 
    We sacrificed them, so the laptop/zoom class could feel safe.

     
  7. Businesses pop-up or evolve to accommodate the new normal.
    This doesn't make any sense.  Is this a question, a statement?

Your turn now BE.

And yet living in a place that has, to date, effectively managed Covid, none of your perceived problems have arisen.

Interesting article, but I don't think they looked hard enough for evidence that was against their position. They also raise questions about their stated position, but then don't explore those questions.

"It seems intuitively obvious that lockdowns would save lives by reducing social interactions and therefore the spread of the virus." 

"The lockdowns may also have saved some lives,"

"It’s true, as lockdown proponents argue, that many factors could confound these broad comparisons."

And quote Dr Jay Bhattacharya...hey, wasn't he blasted for dodgy epidemiology in 2020...Oh, that's right, he's one of the Great Barrington Declaration whacko's.

"The World Health Organization and numerous academic and public-health bodies have stated that the proposed strategy is dangerous, unethical, and lacks a sound scientific basis."

So I'll file that whole city-journal report on the propaganda pile.

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41 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Eh?  They are ACTUAL problems not "perceived."

They are not problems here, where suitable precautions were taken. Hint, interactions between people result in the spread of contagious viruses.

I do realise that these words are coming from a place of privilege with regard to covid, and that the precautions experienced locally cannot be sustained long-term. I also realise that some places could not, nor be expected to, implement such precautions, for various reasons. But I do take offence to, and question the belief system of, people that don't believe experts and actively try to undermine best practice promoted by the experts.

  1. Basic hygiene works, including masks.
  2. Limiting interactions with other people works.
  3. This is a highly contagious virus that is either being controlled, or isn't. There is no middle ground to wiggle through.
contagious
/kənˈteɪdʒəs/
 
adjective
 
  1. (of a disease) spread from one person or organism to another, typically by direct contact.
    "a contagious disease"
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1 hour ago, Ncik said:

But I do take offence to, and question the belief system of, people that don't believe experts and actively try to undermine best practice promoted by the experts.

But you are selective in which experts YOU believe even to the point of ignoring actual evidence.

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7 hours ago, Ncik said:

And quote Dr Jay Bhattacharya...hey, wasn't he blasted for dodgy epidemiology in 2020...Oh, that's right, he's one of the Great Barrington Declaration whacko's.

"The World Health Organization and numerous academic and public-health bodies have stated that the proposed strategy is dangerous, unethical, and lacks a sound scientific basis."

So I'll file that whole city-journal report on the propaganda pile.

Yes, you get to be professors at Stanford and Harvard and Oxford by being total idiots.

Not only that, but you are clearly smarter than they are.

 

This is what it's come to.  Morons online arguing that 'these doctors are smart.  These ones are not'

The ones you say aren't smart, just don't agree with your opinion.
You're the ultimate troll.  Not looking at the data.  Not actually doing any science.

Just repeating what the media sold you. Loudly.
And you're so damn sure of yourself.

 

Fauci and all those goons have been so wrong, and you just stick your head in the sand.
La la la la.  I don't care about science or facts. I'm a democrat! 

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4 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:
6 hours ago, Ncik said:

But I do take offence to, and question the belief system of, people that don't believe experts and actively try to undermine best practice promoted by the experts.

But you are selective in which experts YOU believe even to the point of ignoring actual evidence.

Not even

We believe experts who are actually experts, not internet blow-hards. You know, experts that know what a fucking virus is, and can do math, stuff like that

Facts

Get them

- DSK

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On 3/26/2021 at 3:46 PM, Kate short for Bob said:

Typical response from someone driven entirely by self interest.  Where have I said that "everyone else is making too big a deal of this virus"?  You play the card that anyone who disagrees with your approach is a Covid denier or flat earth anti-vaxxer.  I assure you I'm neither.  

The difference in opinion is based on what works and what doesn't work in pandemic management.  Your position is driven by self interest - you've stated if not gloated many times about how you are retired, over 65 with comorbidity's, want to travel the world again and go kite surfing.  You've never expressed any interest in those who are not in that position and are happy for everyone else to suffer the cost of protecting you.  What is even more disturbing is you support actions that cause harm to others in the belief they protect you when the evidence shows that they don't.  That's the "Big Deal"!

With regard to Australia and New Zealand they have still to deal with the Pandemic.  At extreme cost to their economies and the health of their citizens they have locked themselves behind their moats.  Covid has done that - politicians have done it.  They and their health bureaucrats have conned their citizens into believing that if everyone gets the vaccine things will be back to normal and thousands of lives will have been saved.  You watch - once reality hits and the population has had enough the respective Governments will stop testing for Covid and you will see the Covilympic medal charts disappear.  Why?  Because they know that even with a vaccinated population that Covid cases and deaths will still occur.

In that regard there is no guarantee that your vaccination will work for you.  I guess you are relying on Government advice in assessing the risk to YOU in travelling the world with your kite?  If not then you must be aware that there is very little chance of you travelling the world anytime soon unless you are willing to accept the risk.  A risk that if you were a healthy individual under the age of 65 would be substantially less than the residual risk that you assume the vaccine give you.

I find it appalling that someone such as yourself with what you tell us is a science background promotes the vaccination of low risk individuals such as children and our youth well before any phase 3 trials have been completed.  Has that ever ever happened in the history of vaccination before?  Again that promotion is purely self interest on your part.

Perhaps you would quote somewhere I advocated vaccination of children before completion of phase-3 trials. You are just a troll happy to play games with the data and stir the pot from your safe little haven on a large island in the southern Pacific. In contrast, like several billion other people, I am living with the threat of this virus every day and have a pretty good understanding of both the testing, epidemiology, vaccine technology, and public health approaches for this epidemic. Although not an expert in any of those fields, I worked in molecular biology for 35 years (did my first DNA cloning and sequencing in 1986 and first PCR in 1988, and supervised the sequencing of several large genomes (100-3000 Mbp) in the past decade before retiring end of 2018). Willing to wager my understanding of this virus and its variants exceeds yours. And yes, I am confident in my vaccination effectiveness. Just witness the drop in deaths from the B1.1.7 variant virus in the UK resulting from a combination of their winter lockdown and now extensive vaccination of most older folks. The whole of London had no virus-caused deaths yesterday! Same story in Israel, and soon elsewhere that is vaccinating fast. I remain wary of some variants, and fingers-crossed hope we don't get too many variants upon variants that really can evade our current vaccines, but even then am confident we can get additional targeted vaccines out quickly. So, yes, sorry to piss you off, but I am hopefully of traveling for kitesurfing this year, specifically to my home country of South Africa and the spectacular kiting in Cape Town, and I hope others can similarly return to their more normal lives, including those who have suffered greatly, losing loved ones or struggling with long-haul covid. And for those who have suffered economically I hope they get some government aid and eventually recover as well.

 

Screen Shot 2021-03-29 at 8.53.58 AM.png

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Before BE gets too excited about things getting better around the world, here are just six countries, in very different parts of the world, which are now enduring a wave of infections and deaths even worse than anything in the past year. There are quite a few more, plus many in Africa that don't even report numbers.

 

Screen Shot 2021-04-02 at 5.41.14 AM.png

Screen Shot 2021-04-02 at 5.40.24 AM.png

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India Records Highest Single-Day Spike Since Late September With Over 89,000 COVID Cases, 700 Deaths

 

The fresh spike is only 9,000 cases less than the highest ever COVID spike in the country on September 16, 2020 when 97,860 cases were reported in a span of 24 hours.

 

Updated: April 3, 2021 10:03 AM IST

 

https://www.india.com/news/india/india-covid-tally-healh-ministry-updates-new-cases-spike-deaths-toll-coronavirus-4554675/

 

yep , sure is getting better .

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@TheDragon

In all seriousness, I know you and I disagree here, but, doesn't this completely prove my point?

 

Masks don't prevent waves.
Lockdowns don't prevent waves.
Hospitals don't get overrun, so we don't need to 'stay home'

None of the 'containment methods' that have been sold to the public for the last year, do anything.

Remember, a 'case' used to mean, someone in the hospital or at least with symptoms.
 

Now it's just means a positive test, even if you don't feel anything.
 

If all these methods worked so well, why are all these European countries seeing more 'cases'?
Masks are dirty?
Everyone is flying again?
Kids in school?

 

Or... is it maybe a ton of testing, and the virus spreads around like a normal virus, regardless of what we do?

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This virus comes in waves, waves determined by a wide variety of circumstances, but the primary determinant is the behavior of people. Just in case you have not noticed, it is a novel, highly contagious, respiratory virus. Hence the moment people let down their guard, stop wearing masks consistently (remember, they are not primarily to protect the wearer, you need a N95 or double mask for that, they are primarily to protect others from asymptomatic infected people), gather closely, sing, yell, scream loudly, gather in indoor poorly ventilated spaces, etc. What we see repeatedly is that as restrictions are relaxed people revert to normal social behavior and the virus spreads again. You can see it endlessly, for example in Michigan today. Even my home state of Illinois is seeing a new surge of infections, simply because we have relaxed our winter restrictions and now allow indoor dining, bars are open, schools have reopened, even youth sports are allowed, let alone churches, etc. All those activities give the virus a new chance to spread, and since 50% of infections in our county are now the UK variant, like the rest of the USA, spread is even more rapid once allowed. The only good part of it is that only about 50% of our population remains susceptible to infection, and importantly most of the vulnerable older folk like me are vaccinated now so this wave will be primarily young people who are less likely to end up in hospital. BUT, that does not mean they will all have asymptomatic or mild cases, an unfortunate few will suffer badly and have long term consequences, even if not hospitalized etc. A few idiots who refuse vaccination will die, but I can't get too worked up about that.

Here's an olive leaf to you and your ilk who think this is no big deal, or even worse a Fauci-invented Gates-promoted fraud on the western world, supported by China and promoted by liberals like me. Because this virus has managed to ravage such large parts of the world (except those who truly know how to lockdown or otherwise avoid the virus, like China, Korea, Australia, New Zealand), and because most of the world, despite their inability to contain the virus due to the stubborn unwillingness to fight it forcefully, has had the scientific chops to get vaccines out relatively quickly, we will soon move to the next phase of this virus, which will be that it becomes a nuisance "cold" or indeed a "little flu", affecting only the young who by and large will shake it off even if not vaccinated. But before that happens, if we don't manage to vaccinate people worldwide, we will see suffering on the scale of Brazil today in lots of places. My home country of South Africa has already suffered an incredible wave of deaths, and might have to face one more this winter if they cannot get vaccines out quickly, and much of the rest of Africa remains very vulnerable.

Every day we get more and more good news about the various vaccines and their effectiveness. Even a single dose after a month prevents serious disease, and surely greatly reduces transmission, and so far immunity is lasting well. We don't have any variants that can evade the vaccines yet, and even if some evolve we have the means to head them off. The world is slowly returning to normal, with a few countries still in bad shape for a few more months. Countries that managed to contain the virus one way or another will be able to vaccinate all their citizens and continue to avoid the virus. I'm optimistic that we are going to get out of this mess, which was almost entirely our own fault for not taking the virus seriously from the get go. And I am guilty too, I travelled back from three months of kitesurfing in South Africa in early March 2020 without taking any precautions, and even tried to get to my boat in Panama in mid-March but the country closed down around me and I bailed, then travelled extensively around the US for kitesurfing during summer 2020, managing to avoid the virus along the way. I only don't travel now because for the last six months I've been recovering from rotator cuff shoulder surgery requiring twice-weekly PT. I'm way ready to get out kitesurfing and sailing, and will start later this month by going to Cape Hatteras with family and friends and then June going to Panama to check on my boat after 15 months on a mooring which is not good in the tropics, and hopefully soon South Africa too. I hate all this virus shit as much as anyone else, I hate wearing a mask, I hate avoiding my friends for months, I hate not being able to travel internationally (I was supposed to be in New Zealand for the AC), and I hate the effect this virus has had on my daughter and her friends who have lost internships and job opportunities for over a year now, and regret all the deaths and sadness it has caused. I just have a different view of it from you and some others, and am very glad I and my family have managed to avoid it and are now fully vaccinated and ready to resume life as before.

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What it comes down to:

"To what extent will you take measures to avoid death or life-altering illness?"

Most people, when the risk is shown to be real, will go a long LONG way to avoid that risk.

A few people who seem to live in a cartoon world, either insist that they know more about viral disease than medical scientists, or they insist that the risk is ZERO DAMMIT.

Even within the first cohort, there's a pretty wide range of where exactly they draw the line. We've seen a severe curtailment of future opportunity, in the name of reducing risk. Too much for some, not enough for others, so overall we're in the right neighborhood... except that we STILL have a lot of boneheads insisting that their freedumb is more important than imposing risk on others, and this is AFTER 550,000 dead.

That seems like a very convincing number, to me. It's a lot of dead people. Maybe it's too scary and that's why some people retreat to a cartoon world? But it's also true that there is a hostile group out there trying to harm the USA through spreading deliberate lies... about politics, about CoviD-19, about anything they can seize on. And somehow minimizing the number of dead and long-hauler disabled seems easy for them and their audience.

I feel really bad for younger people whose lives are so disrupted by this, especially the ones misled into under-estimating the risk and now burdened with long term medical conditions. But maybe it will chip away at Americans' cartoon-world confidence that nothing bad can possibly happen to them, no matter how stupid they act.

- DSK

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19 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

and this is AFTER 550,000 dead.

That seems like a very convincing number, to me. It's a lot of dead people. Maybe it's too scary and that's why some people retreat to a cartoon world? But it's also true that there is a hostile group out there trying to harm the USA through spreading deliberate lies... about politics, about CoviD-19, about anything they can seize on. And somehow minimizing the number of dead and long-hauler disabled seems easy for them and their audience.

 

It is not a convincing number, in the least.  At least not to anyone with a shred of brain power.

If you are hooked up to corporate media all day, any number can keep you watching.

 

The world population is growing by over 100,000 people a day.  A DAY.

60 million people a year die, normally.

 

"I feel really bad for younger people whose lives are so disrupted by this, especially the ones misled into under-estimating the risk and now burdened with long term medical conditions. "

This is the most selfish, idiotic thing in this thread yet.
You should feel bad for the younger generation, who had no risk, and had their lives ruined while you stayed safe inside, living in fear.

 

All the students.
All the poor working class.

You should feel sorry for them, and apologize to them directly.  Your selfish actions ruined years of their lives.
Our future generation, shit on, by the oldest generation.


Nice work gramps.  Nice work.
 

 

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Just for those who think this pandemic is over. Just a few of the many countries for which the current surge is the worst so far. And don't even wonder about much of Africa where there is almost no reporting.

 

 

Screen Shot 2021-04-14 at 11.20.40 AM.png

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On 4/5/2021 at 5:49 AM, BlatantEcho said:
On 4/4/2021 at 10:42 AM, Steam Flyer said:

and this is AFTER 550,000 dead.

That seems like a very convincing number...   ...

It is not a convincing number, in the least.  At least not to anyone with a shred of brain power.

.....    ...

OK great.

We'll put you down as a volunteer to go bungee-jumping

without the bungee

Now, how about halting your stupid effort to convince others to do it, too?

- DSK

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On 4/14/2021 at 9:36 AM, Steam Flyer said:

OK great.

We'll put you down as a volunteer to go bungee-jumping

without the bungee

Now, how about halting your stupid effort to convince others to do it, too?

- DSK

I will pass on that.

Not sure about you, but I use science, facts and data in my life.
 

You seem to be into quasi-cult like religious beliefs - and shut down your brain when someone challenges them.
So, enjoy your jumping.

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13 minutes ago, BlatantEcho said:

I will pass on that.

Not sure about you, but I use science, facts and data in my life.
 

You seem to be into quasi-cult like religious beliefs - and shut down your brain when someone challenges them.
So, enjoy your jumping.

No, you don't.  At east not here.  You post up a graph, and then leap to conclusions about what the graph shows.   That might be using data, but it sure isn't science.

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On 4/16/2021 at 1:04 PM, Rain Man said:

No, you don't.  At east not here.  You post up a graph, and then leap to conclusions about what the graph shows.   That might be using data, but it sure isn't science.

To be accurate, he regurgitates false conclusions that others have arrived at, or invented for sinister purposes. He claims to be using science, but his unquestioning following of the propaganda he reads proves otherwise. His inability to apply a questioning mind to the basics of the graphs he posts prove he only has an interest in spreading propaganda. Every propaganda infographic he has posted has atleast one basic problem with it, which has been pointed out to him, but he refuses to acknowledge nor correct.

He is either an active or passive member of a propaganda machine, trying to delegitimise ANY reasonable response to covid.

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Ncik-   In 5 years, humans will look back on their Covid response, with heads hung low.

I apply my questioning mind to things like this:
 

1) If masks work, why can't we see it in any charts of cases or deaths?

2) If the virus has an IFR of .05% for people under 70, why do they need a vaccine?

3) If lockdowns work, why do NY/NJ lead the US in deaths, and why do California and Florida have similar outcomes?

4) Two weeks to 'flatten the curve' turned into 14 months to find a cure.  Why?

5) The initial 'models' based on an IFR around 3%, we're laughably wrong - Why?

6) Why are people like Fauci right about 50% of the time, and still listened to?

7) Whys is every set of data, every expert who warns that our policy response is wrong - shut out of YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and censored.  If the data was so iron clad FOR lockdowns/masks/etc, why would government and tech companies feel the need to silence dissent?

 

The answer to all of these, including your ramblings, is FEAR.
 

In 5 years, when the fear is gone, the real analysis will begin on the worst public health response in recorded history.
I'm asking questions - and strangely, no one has any answers aside from 'Fauci said so'

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8 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

Ncik-   In 5 years, humans will look back on their Covid response, with heads hung low.

I apply my questioning mind to things like this:
 

1) If masks work, why can't we see it in any charts of cases or deaths?

2) If the virus has an IFR of .05% for people under 70, why do they need a vaccine?

3) If lockdowns work, why do NY/NJ lead the US in deaths, and why do California and Florida have similar outcomes?

4) Two weeks to 'flatten the curve' turned into 14 months to find a cure.  Why?

5) The initial 'models' based on an IFR around 3%, we're laughably wrong - Why?

6) Why are people like Fauci right about 50% of the time, and still listened to?

7) Whys is every set of data, every expert who warns that our policy response is wrong - shut out of YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and censored.  If the data was so iron clad FOR lockdowns/masks/etc, why would government and tech companies feel the need to silence dissent?

 

The answer to all of these, including your ramblings, is FEAR.
 

In 5 years, when the fear is gone, the real analysis will begin on the worst public health response in recorded history.
I'm asking questions - and strangely, no one has any answers aside from 'Fauci said so'

1.  Because you have blinders on.  A questioning mind is a good thing, but in the case of a five year old it gets tiring to hear the same question ad nauseum.   

2.  Have you looked at the median age of Brazilian hospital patients (under 40).   Hobot is in recovery, therefore those that cling to IFR will lump him as a 'just the flu' category.    I hope that you have made a generous donation to help him deal with the extensive debt, since your lies and fictions have done so much to increase transmission of this disease.    

3.  This is actually a reasonable  question.  Mostly it is because lockdowns have to be strict to be effective.  Society cannot tolerate a strict lockdown for months on end.   It is also because lockdowns penalized those with essential jobs and jobs that require doing actual work.   The early New York fatalities were heavily centered in neighborhoods where most people had jobs that couldn't be done in their pajamas.   

4.  Two weeks was always a fictional made up number, because politicians were either stupid or lacked the balls to tell us the truth.   I argued this 13 months ago.   

5.  Early testing was abysmal.   China developed a test amazingly quickly, but nobody believed their numbers.  The US proved embarrassingly incompetent.    More importantly, the name of the virus was NOVEL coronavirus 2019 not because it the virus is fictional.   NOVEL means NEW in this case.    

6.  Because people like you and Trump are wrong 98.5% of the time and he is right far more often the 50%.

7.   To keep two people from sharing the same hospital bed, like is happening in India.   That is the danger of  listening to conspiracy theories.

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2 hours ago, Lark said:

    I hope that you have made a generous donation to help him deal with the extensive debt, since your lies and fictions have done so much to increase transmission of this disease.    

 

I am no denier nor would I even remotely suggest that Covid19 can't kill you. It boggles my mind that we would give so little credit to the minds of our citizens and such great credit to the influence of various voices. Muzzling dissenting viewpoints gives them credibility in my view and takes credibility away from those seeking to shout anyone down. 

Please go about promoting true facts properly given context and weight and most of us will see the light. The rest of the people choosing another path delight in your efforts to quiet their voice.

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