Why is it getting better? US / world

[Kate short for Bob 438]

26 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So saying the science around mask wearing isn't conclusive isn't a lie? When there's plenty of evidence that mask wearing lowers transmission?

Where's the evidence?  You haven't posted any.

[Ease the sheet. 2,288]

25 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Where's the evidence?  You haven't posted any.

Others have.

 

[Kate short for Bob 438]

1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Others have.

 

Why haven't you?

[Matagi 1,453]

PSA:

There is no conclusive and widely accepted study that proves that wearing masks does not work against spreading infections.

Thank you for your attention.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

12 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Others have.

 

Is the reason none of you can post any peer reviewed research showing masks were significantly effective in limiting transmission is because there isn't any?

I've only seen one paper detailing a controlled experiment regarding mask use so far.  That was research performed in Denmark.  Its conclusion was there was no significant difference.

That conclusion aligned with decades of research and WHO recommendations prior to this pandemic.  It must be noted that those recommendations were based on a virus with greater infection and fatality rates than Covid-19.

The reality is, which many refuse to accept, is that regardless of what interventions are imposed the pandemic has followed the same course.  The only exceptions being where countries have managed to keep the virus beyond their borders at considerable cost.

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Is the reason none of you can post any peer reviewed research showing masks were significantly effective in limiting transmission is because there isn't any?

...

No it's because you've ignored everything I've cited, so why waste my time on a dumbass like you

- DSK

[d'ranger 4,362]

Not to mention that the flu which is also an aerosol spread virus was almost non-existent this year. That people were wearing masks is one hell of a coincidence.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

12 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Not to mention that the flu which is also an aerosol spread virus was almost non-existent this year. That people were wearing masks is one hell of a coincidence.

Cancer deaths, treatments and diagnosis are all well down this last 12 months as well. These masks are surely wondrous things.

Of course influenza cases being down (it isn't non-existent as they are still recording 0.8 cases per 100,000) is all due to wearing masks and has nothing to do with:

• More people have been vaccinated against influenza in the USA (if not globally) in the last 12 months than in previous years;

• Over 188 million doses of flu vaccine have been distributed so far this year.

  That’s a sharp increase from the 169 million doses that had been sent out at this time last year, and 163 million doses that were distributed at this point in 2018.

  Schaffner believes most of these doses have been inoculated into people.

  “Flu vaccination in the community started earlier this year, as recommended by the CDC, and our community physicians report that vaccine uptake has been higher than usual,” said Dr. Marie-Louise Landry, a Yale Medicine infectious diseases expert and the director of the Yale Clinical Virology Laboratory.

  The CDC reported that as of Nov. 21, 44.5 million flu vaccines had been administered in adults in pharmacies so far this year, compared to 30.4 million at the same time in 2019.

• Unlike Covid-19 children are more prone to symptomatic cases of influenza than adults - closing schools may have stopped the spread of influenza;

• “It is scattered pretty much throughout the country; it’s not as though some places have a lot and other places have nothing. It’s kind of scattered and stuttering out there throughout the country,” Schaffner said.

  H1N1 appears to be the predominant strain right now, according to Schaffner. H1N1 struck toward the end of the 2019–2020 flu season and has likely carried over into this season.

  Foxman said even though activity is currently mild, the flu could still take off.

  “The exact timing of flu season varies from year to year, so we cannot be complacent, and it is very important for everyone to get the flu vaccine this year,” Foxman said.

• Travel both within and to and from counties has always been recognised as a key vector for the spread of influenza.  

[Kate short for Bob 438]

Interesting too how record low levels of influenza have been reported in Sweden.

[Matagi 1,453]

3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

These masks are surely wondrous things.

To most people, they are pretty straightforward. But hey, every one at their own pace, I guess.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

Interesting also that globally many countries substantially increased the number of people eligible for free influenza vaccinations.  

[Matagi 1,453]

3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Interesting too how record low levels of influenza have been reported in Sweden.

Young Padawan:

Remember: there is a difference whether you report something 'in Sweden' or 'from Sweden'.

But it doesn't matter without a source or at least a timely reference, so we let that pass.

 

The last official report was concerned with the 2019 / 20 season and reported a mild season.

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publicerat-material/publikationsarkiv/i/influenza-in-sweden-2019-2020-season/?pub=80782

[Kate short for Bob 438]

3 minutes ago, Matagi said:

To most people, they are pretty straightforward. But hey, every one at their own pace, I guess.

Trying telling that to a child under the age of 7!  Probably why most countries don't enforce children to wear masks.  Part of the reason also is it is difficult enough to get adults to follow the correct protocols from putting on and taking off masks.  If you get that protocol wrong then using a mask was a waste of time as the outside of the mask has acted as an accumulator. 

[Matagi 1,453]

5 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Trying telling that to a child under the age of 7!  

I just did.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

2 minutes ago, Matagi said:

The last official report was concerned with the 2019 / 20 season and reported a mild season.

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publicerat-material/publikationsarkiv/i/influenza-in-sweden-2019-2020-season/?pub=80782

That was for the pre-covid year not the last 12 months.  Keep up Grasshopper!

The "mild season" in the 2019-20 year was suggested as a reason why the initial high Covid-19 mortality amongst the very old in residential care.  It was also significantly milder than its Nordic neighbours.

The latest season in Sweden has been reported as a record low which is backed up by the EDC and WHO surveillance programmes.

[Matagi 1,453]

4 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

That was for the pre-covid year not the last 12 months.  Keep up Grasshopper!

 

I fully agree and never claimed otherwise.

Our test subject here however opted to not substantiate his view any further with a link or something just as eye-opening.

Remember, young Padawan: you, too, can post links and statistics to confuse your opponent. 

But be wise when to use this tactic. 

[Kate short for Bob 438]

1 minute ago, Matagi said:

Our test subject here however opted to not substantiate his view any further with a link or something just as eye-opening.

So you are saying Sweden HASN'T had a record low influenza season?

[Matagi 1,453]

I have not, will not and currently am in no way not denying that it is not an unusual season with less than few numerous cases.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

17 minutes ago, Matagi said:

I have not, will not and currently am in no way not denying that it is not an unusual season with less than few numerous cases.

So getting back to @d'ranger's hypothesis that "wearing masks has resulted in influenza being non-existent".  It would appear that low levels of influenza is the result of a number of factors given that countries with varying levels of stringency have all had low levels of influenza.  One of the perennial flaws in influenza case number determination particularly when comparing it Covid-19 is the lack of comprehensive testing programs.  Certainly not at the level we see with Covid-19.  Influenza case number determination globally is based on the extrapolation of respiratory disease presentation and random sentinel testing.

[Matagi 1,453]

Why do you keep using these " " , instead of ' ' ? 

Looks suspiciously German to me. 

Not that there is anything wrong with that. I mean, there's a lot wrong about that, but it wouldn't make you a bad person.

And I should know.

[Alhadder 586]

It's certainly not getting better in India. Anyone here noticed the jump in last 2 weeks?

3 days now of over 300,000 new cases PER DAY and growing, not quite, exponentially. Deaths at over 2,500 yesterday and growing. New Delhi's hospital system overwhelmed and basically broken down. Not enough O2 available, morgues overflowing. Awful stuff yet nothing noted here from what I could tell looking upthread. Maybe it's mentioned in another thread.

[Matagi 1,453]

38 minutes ago, Alhadder said:

It's certainly not getting better in India. Anyone here noticed the jump in last 2 weeks?

3 days now of over 300,000 new cases PER DAY and growing, not quite, exponentially. Deaths at over 2,500 yesterday and growing. New Delhi's hospital system overwhelmed and basically broken down. Not enough O2 available, morgues overflowing. Awful stuff yet nothing noted here from what I could tell looking upthread. Maybe it's mentioned in another thread.

No, you're right. The world didn't really pay attention until days ago. Germany shutting down inbound travel for Non-Germans from India from Sunday night. 2 flights from Delhi, 1 from Bangalore still inbound to FRA tomorrow. 

I cannot see how this particular one is to be brought under control. It's also a reminder why it's vital to give universal access to vaccines. In this case, though, the ship has sailed.

[Matagi 1,453]

Put into the context of population.

 

[Bristol-Cruiser 1,377]

3 hours ago, Matagi said:

Put into the context of population.

 

I was going to make the same point. The key differences with India are a) rate is going up sharply and b) the ability of the country to deal with the problem compared to a developed country like Canada or the US.

[Lark 1,926]

11 hours ago, Alhadder said:

It's certainly not getting better in India. Anyone here noticed the jump in last 2 weeks?

3 days now of over 300,000 new cases PER DAY and growing, not quite, exponentially. Deaths at over 2,500 yesterday and growing. New Delhi's hospital system overwhelmed and basically broken down. Not enough O2 available, morgues overflowing. Awful stuff yet nothing noted here from what I could tell looking upthread. Maybe it's mentioned in another thread.

I’ve been cringing for them for a couple weeks.    When I started the thread I’d thought they were somehow safe, either due to their young population or prior immunity.    I don’t know how they escaped so lightly to be hit so hard.  

 Who knows how high their death toll really is.  Officials have a reputation for not filing anything without a bribe, so a massive undercount is likely.    They are also short of tests, so missing cases.    This isn’t merely inability to handle a small percent of a massive population being ill.  
 

Especially sad was the 24 that died while they struggled to fix an oxygen leak from a truck to a hospital.    There was no reserve supply.    Imagine the poor maintenance guy.   I saw a news report today of a hospital that only got a partial requisition, a 10 minute supply for all that needed it.   

[TheDragon 905]

BUT, BUT, it can't possibly be killing people, it's just a little flu! 

[TheDragon 905]

Some countries are in worse shape than the US during the winter, which takes some real incompetence, right up there with the Trumpists. Others are getting there.

 

[Kate short for Bob 438]

4 hours ago, TheDragon said:

BUT, BUT, it can't possibly be killing people, it's just a little flu! 

27,000 people die a day in India in an average year.  2000 a day from dysentery and 1200 a day from tuberculosis.  Both treatable diseases.  

[Kate short for Bob 438]

10 minutes ago, Randro said:

Why don't you just fuck off with you bullshit Mikey?

Must be a cunt to have to spread this shit for a living.  Do yourself a favour and get a real job.

It's not bullshit they are the facts.  Why don't you challenge the poster that posted that 7 million people a year die of typhoid and cholera?

What is wrong with raising awareness that there are other treatable diseases that have been killing people for years.

If there is one positive out of Covid-19 that is that the general awareness of disease in society will have increased.  Or will it be a case of "We have all been vaccinated and herd immunity has been achieved so let's get back to normal".

[ShortForBob 2,962]

On 4/22/2021 at 12:13 PM, Kate short for Bob said:

What have I lied about?

Note:  I have yet to resort to name calling, abuse and swearing to make a point.  

PS:  My name isn't Mikey.  I haven no idea who Mikey is.

Well there's a Liar born every minute.

Lessee, Mikey flames out early Sept in PA over his ridiculous Covid/Flu assertions. Disappears for a month (banned? Possibly)

Kate appears (stealing my user ID after trolling me) about the same time.

Exactly the same style, same arguments, pretending to be Australian

Mikey doesn't post in the Covid threads

Katie doesnt post in PA.  

Lastly, to have been here 8 months posting more or less Covid related and claim not to know who Mikey is is pure bullshit. Why lie about that? everyone knows who Mikey is.

Katie also disappears around midnight like a Colarado Pumpkin.

 

[Kate short for Bob 438]

13 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Kate appears (stealing my user ID after trolling me) about the same time.

My username is a line from Blackadder.

14 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Exactly the same style, same arguments, pretending to be Australian

Would never pretend to be an Australian.  What would be the point?

14 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Lastly, to have been here 8 months posting more or less Covid related and claim not to know who Mikey is is pure bullshit. Why lie about that? everyone knows who Mikey is

I have no idea who Mikey is and I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know the history of that poster. 

So feel free to keep making shit up.

 

[ShortForBob 2,962]

3 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

My username is a line from Blackadder.

Yes, that you stole from me directly after I explained my user ID to you.

Would never pretend to be an Australian.  What would be the point?

I have no idea who Mikey is and I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know the history of that poster. 

So feel free to keep making shit up.

 

Feel free to keep lying, many socks do, it's kind of their MO.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

5 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Feel free to keep lying, many socks do, it's kind of their MO

Well you are either deliberately lying now or are honestly mistaken.

I didn't realise you had copyright on the Blackadder line.  I assure you that your username had no influence on my choice.

Can you provide the link to the post where you "explained it to me"?  

[ShortForBob 2,962]

Just now, Kate short for Bob said:

Well you are either deliberately lying now or are honestly mistaken.

I didn't realise you had copyright on the Blackadder line.  I assure you that your username had no influence on my choice.

Horse shit.

Tell me which episode the line comes from and which actor says it to Whom.

and in what context. In the next 30 seconds

I assure you, you wont find it on You tube.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

4 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Horse shit.

Tell me which episode the line comes from and which actor says it to Whom.

and in what context. In the next 30 seconds

I assure you, you wont find it on You tube.

Kate is dressed as a young boy who Blackadder falls romantically for.  

[Kate short for Bob 438]

Kate mistakenly says her name is Kate and when realising the mistake says "Kate short for Bob".  That's if my memory serves me right.  Of course Blackadder pronounces "Bob" in a unique and funny way.

[ShortForBob 2,962]

15 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

Kate mistakenly says her name is Kate and when realising the mistake says "Kate short for Bob".  That's if my memory serves me right.  Of course Blackadder pronounces "Bob" in a unique and funny way.

Wrong, she doesn't say "Kate short for bob at all".

I said, It's" Kate, short for bob."

She just say's. It's er short for bob.

It took me less than 30 seconds to check that. But I knew where to look.

Took you 10 minutes.

[ShortForBob 2,962]

1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

Wrong, she doesn't say "Kate short for bob at all".

I said, It's" Kate, short for bob."

She just say's. It's er short for bob.

It took me less than 30 seconds to check that. But I knew where to look.

Took you 10 minutes.

Anyway Mikey. You know me well enough to know where I got my ID from.

Isn't it nearly bedtime in Colorado?

[Kate short for Bob 438]

6 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Wrong, she doesn't say "Kate short for bob at all".

I said, It's" Kate, short for bob."

She just say's. It's er short for bob.

It took me less than 30 seconds to check that. But I knew where to look.

Took you 10 minutes.

FFS you had to Google it and I quoted from memory having last seen the episode 30 years ago!

[Kate short for Bob 438]

6 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Anyway Mikey. You know me well enough to know where I got my ID from.

Isn't it nearly bedtime in Colorado?

I have no idea who Mikey is.  I don't know you at all.

I dont live in Colorado.  You've been around Wacko Jacko for too long and you are seeing ghosts under the bed!

[TheDragon 905]

Still lots of countries in South America and South Asia struggling mightily. The UK has shown spectacular success, even had a day with no covid deaths this week, largely due to their accelerated roll out of vaccination including deferring the second dose for three months to get most of the population partially vaccinated as quickly as possible. The US not quite so good as we did not take that approach, plus we have lots of covidiots who will not get vaccinated and prefer to get natural immunity.

 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

I don't think we had vaccine lack that slowed us, we had injection appointment slot lack, at least here. They never used all the vaccine. 

The US never had to defer shots for supply reasons.

Getting people to come back is already  problematic, waiting longer for shot 2 would not have been good.

Other countries may have had to ration. We did not.

[BlatantEcho 250]

Here's a great chart, plotted by states and the stringency of their lockdowns.
Data from HealthData.gov

 

[Matagi 1,453]

Great. Another DIY scientistician. As if we didn't have enough of these cases already.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

3 minutes ago, Matagi said:

Great. Another DIY scientistician. As if we didn't have enough of these cases already.

So no comment on the graph and data just a trolling attack on the poster?

[Rain Man 1,992]

Canada closing in on the US - as of today, Canada at 43.4%, and USA stuck at 46.4 where it has been for several days give or take a few tenths of a percent.  Looks like Canada will pass the US on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Why has the US population not adopted vaccination?  Are there really that many anti-vaxxers?  

[BlatantEcho 250]

3 hours ago, Rain Man said:

Why has the US population not adopted vaccination?  Are there really that many anti-vaxxers?  

I'll answer:

1) The CDC has lost most of its credibility as a science based, non-political agency.

2) Everyone got sold up the river by their governments, with witch hunt style lockdowns, that did nothing.

3) The media has overplayed their hand, spreading fear for a year.

4) Reality was the IFR of the virus is lower than the flu for people under Age 70.

5) People who followed the science (lockdowns don't work, masks do nothing), - got shouted down.

6) Lockdown/maskers made this political, and ignored any science.

7) 'two weeks to flatten the curve' turned into 14 months.

 

So, why would anyone get a vaccine who is under 70?

Seriously, what's a reason?

 

[d'ranger 4,362]

Blatant Asshole is back, different day, same old shit.

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

3 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

I'll answer:

1) The CDC has lost most of its credibility as a science based, non-political agency.

2) Everyone got sold up the river by their governments, with witch hunt style lockdowns, that did nothing.

3) The media has overplayed their hand, spreading fear for a year.

4) Reality was the IFR of the virus is lower than the flu for people under Age 70.

5) People who followed the science (lockdowns don't work, masks do nothing), - got shouted down.

6) Lockdown/maskers made this political, and ignored any science.

7) 'two weeks to flatten the curve' turned into 14 months.

 

So, why would anyone get a vaccine who is under 70?

Seriously, what's a reason?

 

Seriously?

Because the two options are- get the vaccine, or get the disease.

Vaccine: headache, kinda sick feeling for a day or so... usually a few hours only

Disease: Possible death, likely long-term health defects including heart/lung/liver damage and infertility, passing the disease to the rest of your household with all the above effects.

Yeah,d not an easy choice. I can see why you're hung up on it

Oh and BTW thanks for posting another graph that proves the opposite of what you think it does. Check the percent difference at peak & trough of your two trend lines

- DSK

[Lark 1,926]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-57307861
 

Peru is the new benchmark for how bad it can get, according to its own government.

500/100,000 = one in 200 dead.   

[slug zitski 576]

On 5/16/2021 at 2:18 AM, Rain Man said:

Canada closing in on the US - as of today, Canada at 43.4%, and USA stuck at 46.4 where it has been for several days give or take a few tenths of a percent.  Looks like Canada will pass the US on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Why has the US population not adopted vaccination?  Are there really that many anti-vaxxers?  

 

Your numbers are false 

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/vaccination-coverage/

 

 

[slug zitski 576]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:18 AM, BlatantEcho said:

I'll answer:

1) The CDC has lost most of its credibility as a science based, non-political agency.

2) Everyone got sold up the river by their governments, with witch hunt style lockdowns, that did nothing.

3) The media has overplayed their hand, spreading fear for a year.

4) Reality was the IFR of the virus is lower than the flu for people under Age 70.

5) People who followed the science (lockdowns don't work, masks do nothing), - got shouted down.

6) Lockdown/maskers made this political, and ignored any science.

7) 'two weeks to flatten the curve' turned into 14 months.

 

So, why would anyone get a vaccine who is under 70?

Seriously, what's a reason?

 

You get vaccinated to protect society 

the greater the viral load circulating in society , the greater  the chance for a mutation to develope that sets the whole vaccination program back and shuts down society once again 

 

don’t be a dam fool 

[spankoka 272]

It certainly seems better here in BC. The overdose problem has killed more people in the same time period than Covid-19 ever did. 

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

20 hours ago, slug zitski said:

On 5/16/2021 at 6:18 AM, BlatantEcho said:

...

You get vaccinated to protect society 

the greater the viral load circulating in society , the greater  the chance for a mutation to develope that sets the whole vaccination program back and shuts down society once again 

 

don’t be a dam fool 

Too late, he's already a damn fool... worse, deliberately telling lies to inflict harm on others.

- DSK

[Kate short for Bob 438]

On 6/2/2021 at 11:59 AM, slug zitski said:

You get vaccinated to protect society 

No you get vaccinated to protect yourself. 

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

12 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

On 6/1/2021 at 7:59 PM, slug zitski said:

You get vaccinated to protect society 

No you get vaccinated to protect yourself. 

Sums it up right there.

Mikey: "You're wrong! I'm smarter than you!" no matter what the original statement is

The truth is that any person getting vaccinated may have a wide variety of reasons, but it protects them -and- it helps protect everyone around them (ie society).

- DSK

[Kate short for Bob 438]

6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

The truth is that any person getting vaccinated may have a wide variety of reasons, but it protects them -and- it helps protect everyone around them (ie society).

No it doesn't protect everyone around them.  The point is it protects them 8f they choose to be protected.

Pushing the societal good by guilt and coercion shouldn't be an option to encourage individuals to get vaccinated.

The focus should be on encouraging vulnerable individuals to get vaccinated for their own benefit.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

So Joe's been telling folks to vax up by the end of June. That's because we're giving away 75% of what Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J is left, plus all the Astra Zenica. The delay with Astra Zenica is safety inspection.

Now, as you scoff, bear in mind that the US governmen AZ was made by Emergent in Baltimore, that has SEVERE production problems, including mixing up AZ and J&J ingredients.  Problems there went on for a while. We did not use the J&J made there during that time. I imagine they are sampling the AZ. Whatever crap people give Ugly Plague America, imagine what you'd say if we shipped defective vaccine to poor countries. Yeah. 

https://apnews.com/article/biden-announces-international-covid-vaccine-sharing-plan-cc4630f1d45b379c573c55a2042026e0?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=ap_politics

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/03/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-global-vaccine-distribution/

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/06/02/world/covid-vaccine-coronavirus-mask

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/03/31/vaccine-johnson-johnson-emergent/

 

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/at-request-fda-emergent-s-troubled-baltimore-plant-suspends-j-j-vaccine-production

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/emergent-vaccine-jj-baltimore-plant/2021/04/03/25f7ade4-94e2-11eb-9668-89be11273c09_story.html

 

 

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

1 hour ago, Kate short for Bob said:

7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

... The truth is that any person getting vaccinated may have a wide variety of reasons, but it protects them -and- it helps protect everyone around them (ie society).

No it doesn't protect everyone around them.   ...

 

Really? Vaccinated people are not far less likely than the unvaccinated to spread pathogens?

You're now claiming that there is no such thing as herd immunity?

- DSK

[NeedAClew 1,786]

First doses going out this week. 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/biden-administration-unveils-plan-to-vaccinate-world-against-covid-19-20210604-p57xyv.html

[Kate short for Bob 438]

14 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Really? Vaccinated people are not far less likely than the unvaccinated to spread pathogens?

You're now claiming that there is no such thing as herd immunity?

- DSK

You've just agreed with me.  Vaccinated people are "less likely" but it doesn't protect everyone around them does it?

I'm not claiming there is no such thing as herd immunity.  However I believe there are two paths to herd immunity not ONE which is what you seem to adhere to.  I also have the opinion that herd immunity can be reached below 75% of the population being vaccinated.  For example if 50% of the population are Covid-19 Recovered then you don't need to vaccinate that part of the population.

In that regard there is some very interesting research emerging, first reported in the New York Times, that shows naturally acquired immunity appears to last much longer than those vaccinated.  This is good news and confirms the research done on SARS-1 where immunity has lasted 17 years.

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

11 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

30 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Really? Vaccinated people are not far less likely than the unvaccinated to spread pathogens?

You're now claiming that there is no such thing as herd immunity?

- DSK

You've just agreed with me.  Vaccinated people are "less likely" but it doesn't protect everyone around them does it?

I'm not claiming there is no such thing as herd immunity.  However I believe there are two paths to herd immunity not ONE which is what you seem to adhere to.  I also have the opinion that herd immunity can be reached below 75% of the population being vaccinated.  For example if 50% of the population are Covid-19 Recovered then you don't need to vaccinate that part of the population.

In that regard there is some very interesting research emerging, first reported in the New York Times, that shows naturally acquired immunity appears to last much longer than those vaccinated.  This is good news and confirms the research done on SARS-1 where immunity has lasted 17 years.

Deflect, distract, bullshit

You said

2 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No it doesn't protect everyone around them

but clearly, if vaccinated people are less likely to get infected and if they do anyway, they exhale far less virus... that protects people around them.

If enough people get vaccinated, we reach herd immunity without the percentage of the population dying of it. What's 1% of 330 million, Mikey? You want that many people to die of covid? Apparently, yes you do.

- DSK

[Kate short for Bob 438]

29 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

If enough people get vaccinated, we reach herd immunity without the percentage of the population dying of it. What's 1% of 330 million, Mikey? You want that many people to die of covid? Apparently, yes you do.

 

But aren't you safe if you have been vaccinated or have had the virus? Aren't the only people that are at risk of serious illness those that aren't vaccinated?

[Ease the sheet. 2,288]

5 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

But aren't you safe if you have been vaccinated or have had the virus? Aren't the only people that are at risk of serious illness those that aren't vaccinated?

Like those with compromised immune systems?

Or those with diseases/syndromes that cause immune system failures?

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Maybe in some vaccine grateful countries herd immunity is relevant for the near to mid future. Not my dogfight.

We likely will not get 70 percent fully vaccinated in the US. Given the patchy nature of vaccine acceptance/reluctance and covid hotspots, it would be a long time to get uniformity in immunity such as it is. Given the incredible level of domestic tourism now, plus overseas trips, it's going to be a long ride 

It's basically a household model, imho. Do what you choose to be as safe as you care to be. We plan to vax often, stay away from venues prone to the unvaxed (an indicator is they catered to the unmasked before), and enjoy life. Realistically we never went to NASCAR or large concert/theatre venues anyway. 

The maps at the end are good. Some people never get vax for anything. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/03/us/virus-vaccine-states.html

[Kate short for Bob 438]

16 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Like those with compromised immune systems?

Or those with diseases/syndromes that cause immune system failures?

They're vulnerable to more than just Covid.

[NeedAClew 1,786]

2 minutes ago, Kate short for Bob said:

They're vulnerable to more than just Covid.

Well you could get hit by a bus.

Hope springs eternal.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

Well you could get hit by a bus.

 

Let's ban all buses.

[Ease the sheet. 2,288]

4 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

They're vulnerable to more than just Covid.

There also the people other people getting vaccines help.

 

Of course you know this, but it won't stop you from spouting stupid shit.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

12 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

There also the people other people getting vaccines help.

 

Of course you know this, but it won't stop you from spouting stupid shit.

No I'm not spouting shit as you put it.  However the goal is Herd Immunity to protect those vulnerable that you highlight although they will still be vulnerable to any number of diseases and conditions that are present in society.

Probably half the USA population has already had Covid-19 and acquired immunity therefore have contributed to the goal of herd immunity.

Herd Immunity isn't a dirty term and if elimination is to be achieved then it is a goal that needs to be achieved one way or another.

[danstanford 130]

I truly believe a large part of the culpability here with the people resisting vaccination lays with our governments and media. They have managed the flow of information and clearly have given us messaging intended to keep us scared and therefore not spreading the virus. This lofty aspiration has largely come to fruition but lots of people have grown to distrust various 'facts' being released and are simply doing what they think is best given the uncertainty in the messaging.

 

[Ease the sheet. 2,288]

9 hours ago, Kate short for Bob said:

No I'm not spouting shit as you put it.  However the goal is Herd Immunity to protect those vulnerable that you highlight although they will still be vulnerable to any number of diseases and conditions that are present in society.

Probably half the USA population has already had Covid-19 and acquired immunity therefore have contributed to the goal of herd immunity.

Herd Immunity isn't a dirty term and if elimination is to be achieved then it is a goal that needs to be achieved one way or another.

So those getting the vaccine are now protecting others?

 

On 6/3/2021 at 10:37 AM, Kate short for Bob said:

No you get vaccinated to protect yourself. 

 

 

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

2 hours ago, danstanford said:

I truly believe a large part of the culpability here with the people resisting vaccination lays with our governments and media. They have managed the flow of information and clearly have given us messaging intended to keep us scared and therefore not spreading the virus. This lofty aspiration has largely come to fruition but lots of people have grown to distrust various 'facts' being released and are simply doing what they think is best given the uncertainty in the messaging.

 

There is a large element of this, but it's not "the government managing" information here in the USA. It's a universe of media screechers all trying to make money by selling whatever hype they think the rubes will buy.

Yes, the info published by government agencies was inconsistent and very often difficult to understand. But it was also, for the most part, coming "from the horses mouth" instead of being sanitized and clarified by partisan publicity flacks... although the Trump Admin ramped up the effort to do so, not for reasons of public health.

- DSK

[slug zitski 576]

25 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

There is a large element of this, but it's not "the government managing" information here in the USA. It's a universe of media screechers all trying to make money by selling whatever hype they think the rubes will buy.

Yes, the info published by government agencies was inconsistent and very often difficult to understand. But it was also, for the most part, coming "from the horses mouth" instead of being sanitized and clarified by partisan publicity flacks... although the Trump Admin ramped up the effort to do so, not for reasons of public health.

- DSK

Get your politics out of it 

when the vaccination program first began health authorities stated that the first 50 percent of vaccinations would occur rapidly 

the remaining 50 percent , young people and those that are difficult to reach , would be a challenge 

 

this is is exactly how the vaccine rollout has progressed in the US and in the rest of the world 

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

2 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Get your politics out of it 

...

So you can stick your politics in?

No

Knowledge is power. We the people spent the money to learn all kinds of sciencey stuff, most of it is far above the comprehension of most of us, and not very entertaining anyway. But we benefit from the people who do understand it, and can use it.... and we should all have access to it.

- DSK

[NeedAClew 1,786]

2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

There is a large element of this, but it's not "the government managing" information here in the USA. It's a universe of media screechers all trying to make money by selling whatever hype they think the rubes will buy.

Yes, the info published by government agencies was inconsistent and very often difficult to understand. But it was also, for the most part, coming "from the horses mouth" instead of being sanitized and clarified by partisan publicity flacks... although the Trump Admin ramped up the effort to do so, not for reasons of public health.

- DSK

Thanks, Murdoch and Tucker Carlson et al!

Australia changed the US via The Apprentice editing, Fox.  Don't forget whose money was behind that. I hope Jerry Hall spits in his food.

[Kate short for Bob 438]

9 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So those getting the vaccine are now protecting others?

No their action was to protect themselves.  Using your paradigm those that are Covid Recovered are also protecting others.

[danstanford 130]

12 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

There is a large element of this, but it's not "the government managing" information here in the USA. It's a universe of media screechers all trying to make money by selling whatever hype they think the rubes will buy.

Yes, the info published by government agencies was inconsistent and very often difficult to understand. But it was also, for the most part, coming "from the horses mouth" instead of being sanitized and clarified by partisan publicity flacks... although the Trump Admin ramped up the effort to do so, not for reasons of public health.

- DSK

Here in Canada the Government of the country and the province I live in were recently publicly disappointed with a science group for releasing their views on the AZ Vaccine. I think if you are going to preach that we have to listen to the science you shouldn't get to bitch when you don't like what it says. 

Dan 

[Steam Flyer 8,454]

1 hour ago, danstanford said:

Here in Canada the Government of the country and the province I live in were recently publicly disappointed with a science group for releasing their views on the AZ Vaccine. I think if you are going to preach that we have to listen to the science you shouldn't get to bitch when you don't like what it says. 

Dan 

Well, sure. Science is not what we want it to be.

I'm still disappointed as hell that we don't have flying cars and Moon colonies, like the scientists all said we would have by now, back when I was a kid.

- DSK

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Hopefully "FDA Approval" will get some more vaccinated because "they didn't want to be guinea pigs" before but as the article points out, the additional time isn't going to reveal breaking news and waiting is risky if you aren't in your basement. 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/full-fda-approval-drive-covid-19-vaccinations-experts/story?id=78048166

 

[NeedAClew 1,786]

Another half billion doses of US made Pfizer for Africa, Asia and South America.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/10/politics/joe-biden-vaccine-us-leadership/index.html

[ShortForBob 2,962]

5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Another half billion doses of US made Pfizer for Africa, Asia and South America.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/10/politics/joe-biden-vaccine-us-leadership/index.html

well this is refreshing

'Let me be clear: Just as with the 80 million doses we previously announced, the United States is providing these half-(billion) doses with no strings attached," Biden said. "Our vaccine donations don't include pressure for favors or potential concessions. We're doing this to save lives, to end this pandemic. That's it. Period."

If taken with a grain of salt.

[EYESAILOR 1,653]

On 6/5/2021 at 5:59 AM, danstanford said:

I truly believe a large part of the culpability here with the people resisting vaccination lays with our governments and media. They have managed the flow of information and clearly have given us messaging intended to keep us scared and therefore not spreading the virus. This lofty aspiration has largely come to fruition but lots of people have grown to distrust various 'facts' being released and are simply doing what they think is best given the uncertainty in the messaging.

 

In the US I dont think it was helpful that the vaccine approval dates came so close to the election date. For a period, the vaccine approval and FDA became political topics. it would have been better if both parties had expressed in a bi-partisan way complete confidence in the FDA process for reviewing the vaccine.