Jump to content

How to install RG213 VHF cable inside mast


Recommended Posts

After using a handheld for several years, I have decided it is time for a proper VHF installation.  I will be installing an antenna at the top of the mast, and running RG213 up to it.

The mast is about 36'.  I have the mast down for the winter.  There are internal halyards, and there is wiring to the combined steaming and all-around light at the top of the mast.  The boat is a 1995 Hunter H26.  I do not believe there is any sort of conduit inside the mast.  I am comfortable working with coax and antennas.  I will sell the boat in a few years.

My questions:

  • Do I need conduit, or can I just do the trick with three zip-ties every 5 feet to keep the coax centered and call it good?
  • Or does it make sense to try to use neoprene cushion clamps and put rivnuts in them so I can try and get a screw lined up from a hole in the mast?
  • If I install conduit, what is the best material?  Can I use PEX or something else that comes in a roll so there are no joints?  I know the trick of drilling holes through the conduit into the mast from outside, then putting the conduit inside and having the holes match up.  What fasteners work best?  Rivets?  I don't want to damage the coax with protruding sharp fasteners such as screws.
  • If conduit, is it sufficient to support the weight of the coax from the top with a clamp?  Or do I need clamps every few feet?
  • I'm assuming I want the coax inside for reasons of protection, windage, and to keep the genoa from chafing on it.  Should I consider running it outside?

Details, details, they matter, want to get them right.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can do occasional  side by side 1/8"-3/16" holes and snake stainless seizing wire around pvc conduit then take part of a turn around a pop rivet and trim end off.

Any coiled product will try to stay that way inside the mast.

I would think there might already be coax there, how are the other wires run?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The right way is conduit with pop rivets thru proper clamps every meter or two. Cement them on and match drill. Rivets into conduit is asking for trouble. My coax hangs 65 feet vertical from its fixing at the head. Never considered that might be an issue. Might be a spec for max tension?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sleeve the coax in braid (there ones made for the job or just use the cover from cheap double braid), and put loops at the ends. Run it through the mast, fix the loop at the top of the mast with e.g. a saddle,  pull the braid  extra tight at the mast foot and secure it via the loop. It will lie flat against the inside of the mast.

(Remove and re-thread the masthead light cable inside the braid too.)

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Fleetwood said:

Sleeve the coax in braid (there ones made for the job or just use the cover from cheap double braid), and put loops at the ends. Run it through the mast, fix the loop at the top of the mast with e.g. a saddle,  pull the braid  extra tight at the mast foot and secure it via the loop. It will lie flat against the inside of the mast.

(Remove and re-thread the masthead light cable inside the braid too.)

Yup 

In  addition , if the mast is on the ground with hardware removed take a caulking gun with 5200 and inject a blob thru ....spreader  root holes , halyard exits , topping lift sheave  box ...to adhere the cable sheath  to the mast wall 

if the mast wall is resonantly clean you will get a good bond 

415B852E-4545-4C55-8ADB-7E1C40301956.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, slug zitski said:

Yup 

In  addition , if the mast is on the ground with hardware removed take a caulking gun with 5200 and inject a blob thru ....spreader  root holes , halyard exits , topping lift sheave  box ...to adhere the cable sheath  to the mast wall 

if the mast wall is resonantly clean you will get a good bond 

415B852E-4545-4C55-8ADB-7E1C40301956.jpeg

Slug,

I am always impressed with the amount of resource images you provide to assist with your explanations.  Do you archive all this stuff or just remember where you saw something and get it from the net?  Not my thread but thanks for taking time to help out those in need. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, yoyo said:

Slug,

I am always impressed with the amount of resource images you provide to assist with your explanations.  Do you archive all this stuff or just remember where you saw something and get it from the net?  Not my thread but thanks for taking time to help out those in need. 

I work on boats for a living for  the past 40 years 

im familiar with most equipment and techniques 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, See Level said:

You can do occasional  side by side 1/8"-3/16" holes and snake stainless seizing wire around pvc conduit then take part of a turn around a pop rivet and trim end off.

Any coiled product will try to stay that way inside the mast.

I would think there might already be coax there, how are the other wires run?

Just noticed I wrote "coax already there",

Should be "conduit already there".

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, andykane said:

Also consider if the extra range from a masthead antenna is worth it for your boat and where you'll be sailing. Would be a lot simpler to mount it on the rail.

Thanks.  Did the math, ran coverage simulations, it's worth it.  This summer I'm going to be in some remote parts of Lake Superior and other inland lakes where there isn't any cellular coverage so VHF is all there is for emergencies.  Home slip is on the Mississippi River which is also an area where cellular coverage can be iffy; here, while there are Rescue 21 stations they are widely spaced and due to terrain along the side of the river it takes height to get relatively continuous coverage.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please do not glue cable (or sheath) directly to mast. Will be a nightmare to service, and glue will inevitably seep through the braid into the cable.

 

Best practice is a loose clamp/mount/tube (glue on with loctite 3455, 5200, spa-bond, etc) every ~2m, with a conduit sleeve containing all masthead wiring running through it (wind gear, coax, tricolour, mouse, etc), and a second sleeve from the radar/steaming light/spreader light location to bundle those cables. Make sure tube size is enough to pull fittings through and future-proof any mods.

 

Local sailmaker or canvas-person (or yourself) can make one up, loop on each end for tension. An old cover from rope seems like a good idea but make life difficult when servicing due to the finger-trap effect.

 

HW

Link to post
Share on other sites

Plastic Pipe Conduits are rare on small modern masts

For wire bundles  a full mast length  sheath is fabricated  by a sailmaker then hung in the mast 

a single cable sheathed in a rope cover has the advantage of providing strain relief , gravity protection ,for the the cable 

the strain relief , sheath ,  is fabricated the same as  this shore power cable .

One end dead ended outside the mast .. at the masthead.. the other dead ended under tension , inside the mast butt

 

49DED843-1F51-44B9-A441-39B05FB03C3E.jpeg

C5D6A79F-0052-4526-85E9-46F41AA98935.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Zonker said:

Umm, if you 5200 or whatever (PL400 is construction adhesive) your cable and at some point in the future you want to replace it....

When cables lay against the rear of the mast , mast bend naturally traps the cables against the rear wall 

when cables are on the front of the mast, mast bend works against you  

 a conduit or adhesive is needed to keep them on the forward mast wall 

adhesive is simple 

 

B1F450EF-DD91-4354-84FB-BB7B6354391A.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand a conduit or some other way of securing the cables is required.

I just want to know how I can pull hard enough to debond 5200 without breaking the cable 5' up the mast when I need to replace it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zonker said:

I understand a conduit or some other way of securing the cables is required.

I just want to know how I can pull hard enough to debond 5200 without breaking the cable 5' up the mast when I need to replace it.

The cable is inside a  dyneema or polyester sheath that is tack bonded to the mast wall

The sheath has perhaps 1000 kg break strength 

i suppose a big , angry crew could break it 

Suggest you use a smaller crew , with a light touch ,  when breaking the 5200 bond of  the old cable and sheath 

 

D7EE1D8F-1D82-4512-8E93-6E102E5131DF.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Plastic Pipe Conduits are rare on small modern masts

For wire bundles  a full mast length  sheath is fabricated  by a sailmaker then hung in the mast 

a single cable sheathed in a rope cover has the advantage of providing strain relief , gravity protection ,for the the cable 

the strain relief , sheath ,  is fabricated the same as  this shore power cable .

One end dead ended outside the mast .. at the masthead.. the other dead ended under tension , inside the mast butt

 

49DED843-1F51-44B9-A441-39B05FB03C3E.jpeg

C5D6A79F-0052-4526-85E9-46F41AA98935.png

Good first pic, this is the way.

 

To clarify plastic conduit in place of carbon tube (in place of gluing sleeve/rope) if carbon is unavailable.

 

HW

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Zonker said:

I understand a conduit or some other way of securing the cables is required.

I just want to know how I can pull hard enough to debond 5200 without breaking the cable 5' up the mast when I need to replace it.

Leave it there and run another cable along side of it.

How long does a mast last?  Not forever

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you all for the replies and advice.

1 hour ago, Rain Man said:

BTW, last time I replaced my coax I used LMR-400 instead of RG-213 because it is half the weight, half the signal attenuation and half the price: 

https://www.awcwire.com/blog/rg213-vs-lmr400-product-knockout-30

It is also half the reliability and half the life in marine environments, because it has a foam dielectric (that absorbs water) and an aluminum-foil inner shield and copper braid outer shield (that is prone to dissimilar metal corrosion).  There are many situations where it makes sense but I don't believe it has any place on a boat.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 2airishuman said:

Thank you all for the replies and advice.

It is also half the reliability and half the life in marine environments, because it has a foam dielectric (that absorbs water) and an aluminum-foil inner shield and copper braid outer shield (that is prone to dissimilar metal corrosion).  There are many situations where it makes sense but I don't believe it has any place on a boat.

The right one to use is the LMR-400UF with tinned copper sheath.  Yes, it is necessary to make sure the connections are properly sealed with adhesive heat-shrink etc..   They use this stuff on oil rigs.  

It also can't be clamped hard due to the foam core, so it does require some pre-planning on how it will be secured.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Rain Man said:

The right one to use is the LMR-400UF with tinned copper sheath.  Yes, it is necessary to make sure the connections are properly sealed with adhesive heat-shrink etc..   They use this stuff on oil rigs.  

It also can't be clamped hard due to the foam core, so it does require some pre-planning on how it will be secured.

The issue with those low loss cables is bend radius 

don’t bend it ...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Thank you all for the advice and ideas.

I drilled the rivets out of the mast head yesterday to see what was inside.  No conduit.  There's a T-shaped retainer in the extrusion that would appear to have been meant to hold conduit but there's nothing on it.  The anchor/steaming light assembly at the top of the mast is due for replacement with LED and I'll take this opportunity to run a new cable for that.  The existing cable is just slapping around loose on the inside of the mast, see photos.

I have purchased and am installing a Laird FG1563 antenna, which has an honest 3 dBd gain and an N connector for feedline.  It is marketed as a LMR (land mobile radio) base station antenna (think police, fire, towtrucks, pipeline company), similar construction and specs as good marine antennas but 3x the bang for the buck.  Though 9' long I was able to get it from a place that offered $9.99 fixed-rate shipping.  I'm drilling the top of the mast for aluminum rivnuts that, using aluminum bolts, will hold the aluminum mast brackets in place.  Feedline inside the mast will be Belden 8267, a mil-spec variant of RG213, with right-angle N connectors on both ends that will mate with bulkhead barrel fittings going through the mast.  From the upper bulkhead fitting to the antenna I am running a 3 foot RG393 whip that I bought cheaply on eBay with N connectors factory installed and shrinkwrapped.  From the base of the mast to the radio I'll use either RG400 (if I can get it cheaply) or RG58u (otherwise) for the last 10'.  Should keep feedline losses to under 2 dB.

Applying the advice upthread to my situation, I'm going to use aluminum clamps with neoprene cushions to hold the coax and the cable for the lighting.  I'll epoxy and clamp them shut on the cables at 5' intervals.  After full cure I'll match drill the mast, fish the assembly, and rivet in place.

There's enough contamination inside the mast that I am not confident that adhesive would be effective for bonding cables, conduit, or a sleeve in place.

I'm going to keep this boat for 5 years max so that is my maintenance horizon.  It's a trailer sailor and I don't have any plans to install any more electronics or lights on the mast beyond what I already have.  Well, maybe a Gopro on a pigstick above the mainsail for videos, but that doesn't need wires.

 

Here's the inside of the mast extrusion.  Green halyard, black cable to light, drilled out rivet removed after taking the photo:

PXL_20210328_220341512.thumb.jpg.60814d5b8ad19bec042be7d34dc03f89.jpg

 

 

Here's the masthead assembly with the old incandescent light:

PXL_20210328_220416861.thumb.jpg.f94248a9abebdfa82a74868c75a5c189.jpg

 

Here is the new antenna in a state of repose in my foyer:

PXL_20210331_012302031.thumb.jpg.bcb7bb22417465b6233b4a76e0ba6f77.jpg

 

Detail of the mount and connector:

 

PXL_20210331_012317906.thumb.jpg.a479585e5925bf59bacc486b1f935c5a.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Something I just heard from the local radio Guru the other day, he is a huge advocate of vasoline as a dielectric grease.  Fully submerge coax connetions after soldering then after connecting wipe off excess.  Super cheap and makes sense.  He reccomended on crimp terminals to do the same before putting the end on.  I'm not 100% on his compatability assuredness but seems like a good all around practice, especially on RF stuff.  Have used the 3m stuff but you could probably buy it at ten to one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Uh-oh. Is that a 9dB marine vhf antenna. Not going to work well if the boat heels, or even rocks. Type of feed coax or mounting is not going to matter. You want the 4 foot whip on a sailboat....3dB.

 

antenna-gain-overlay.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

^ you have a physical element too, I would probably not go smaller than 16 or 18 2c.  But would definitely look at a multi C shielded option that could be smaller. I think ancor and some sell a masthead cable multi with different sizes. About the same diameter as vhf cable.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

He mentioned it is 3 dB upthread - but I kind of doubt it too. Maybe 6 dB?  It will heel the boat over in a strong breeze a bit I think. It weighs 6 lbs. You will have the best VHF performance on the lake.

The Laird datasheet on Digikey site clearly does say 3 dB BUT If you go to Laird's site all the FG series antennas have 8 dB gain. That is bad for a sailboat. 

Adding to the confusion, the individual datasheet for FG1623 does say 3 dB. So it's very weird.  I thought typical VHF were 1/4 wave so maybe this is a 3 dB 1/2 wave??

image.png.0ba4bd4dd5fc810ca7a082206004d12d.png

https://www.lairdconnect.com/rf-antennas/public-safety-antennas/omnidirectional-outdoor-antennas/fg-series-outdoor-omni-antenna#specifications

 

 

 Typically masthead antennas are small light 3 dB items like this

5215-C-X-Classic-VHF-Antenna.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have to admit I've never understood the tuna tower whips a few feet in parallel.  Must be only asthetics, if both are on and powered one has to kill the non broadcasting one. Don't know of they ever got back up and running but Morad in Ballard used to make great Vhf and 2m whips.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
On 3/31/2021 at 12:14 PM, Borracho said:

Uh-oh. Is that a 9dB marine vhf antenna. Not going to work well if the boat heels, or even rocks. Type of feed coax or mounting is not going to matter. You want the 4 foot whip on a sailboat....3dB.

 

antenna-gain-overlay.png

It is a 3 dBd antenna, which is electrically similar to the marine antennas sold as "6 dB".  Patterns vary by specific product.  Here's the one from Laird for this antenna in particular:

image.png.2a958e74d5963948b4989ed8cea756ef.png

 

Let's look at heel.  According to the pattern, performance starts to drop off at about 25 degrees of heel.  The dashed line in the chart at 3 dB is unity gain over a theoretical dipole, and that point isn't reached until we're at 37 degrees of heel.  The boat doesn't heel that much, it will round up first.  And that 37 degree point is roughly the point at which performance is the same for a "3 dB marine antenna" while level.  Since there is some dropoff in performance even with a lower gain antenna, the actual performance crossover point is closer to 45 degrees.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2021 at 4:33 PM, Zonker said:

He mentioned it is 3 dB upthread - but I kind of doubt it too. Maybe 6 dB?

It will heel the boat over in a strong breeze a bit I think. It weighs 6 lbs. You will have the best VHF performance on the lake.

The Laird datasheet on Digikey site clearly does say 3 dB BUT If you go to Laird's site all the FG series antennas have 8 dB gain. That is bad for a sailboat. 

Adding to the confusion, the individual datasheet for FG1623 does say 3 dB. So it's very weird.  I thought typical VHF were 1/4 wave so maybe this is a 3 dB 1/2 wave??

image.png.0ba4bd4dd5fc810ca7a082206004d12d.png

https://www.lairdconnect.com/rf-antennas/public-safety-antennas/omnidirectional-outdoor-antennas/fg-series-outdoor-omni-antenna#specifications

 

dB, as a measurement of antenna gain, is only meaningful for comparing two antennas.  Confusingly, the antenna industry uses two separate references: dBi -- which is dB over a theoretical isotropic radiator that sends equal power in all directions, and dBd -- which is dB over a dipole in free space.  Since a dipole in free space has 2.15 dB gain over an isotropic radiator, it is possible to convert from dBd to dBi by adding 2.15 and convert the other way by subtracting

The electrical configuration of this antenna is that of a stacked dipole, which has a theoretical gain of 3 dBd -- stacking the antennas doubles the power and 3 dB is from 10*log10(2).  3 dBd = 5.15 dBi.

The Laird web page you linked to is confusing and includes many antennas including their 2.15 dBi and 5.15 dBi products for various frequency ranges.  If you scroll down you'll see the FG1563 in the table showing the marine VHF frequency range and an advertised gain of 3 - 5.15 dBi which is probably meant to be the variation depending on whether you're at the center or ends of the band.

The waters are further muddied by the fact that Shakespeare and other marine antenna marketers sell electrically similar antennas as "6 dB" antennas.

 

Quote

 

 Typically masthead antennas are small light 3 dB items like this

5215-C-X-Classic-VHF-Antenna.jpg

Tradeoffs.  I can always swap in a lighter antenna with less windage, and expect that I will do so when I'm not in remote areas where VHF performance is paramount.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2021 at 5:51 PM, SASSAFRASS said:

Have to admit I've never understood the tuna tower whips a few feet in parallel.  Must be only asthetics, if both are on and powered one has to kill the non broadcasting one. Don't know of they ever got back up and running but Morad in Ballard used to make great Vhf and 2m whips.

I think in most cases they're for separate bands.  Historically it was either HF, CB, Loran, or AM broadcast.  I don't know what they use them for now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some photos.  I tried epoxying the clamps and the epoxy would not stick to the aluminum clamps even with thorough surface prep, so I'm trying rivnuts.

The antenna brackets are fastened using U bolts with a 1" diameter aluminum backing tube inside the mast to distribute the force.

 

hYKHSle33KjEcSwqeo1pT7pHT46-rrQFz2iDhiLHR-B43VXlKgaZLYkuoHnGIFexDzA1rG2MlUWKr6-HW7i-LbNZLArmJ3hwpFDV8eIj6v4Z7o5vfctaBw35DA0H0VkVxIgIiuNoPMvUf-7Wrl1_Ql_XegZYrtjSbLkF4b_vjyTvpm94BIKx0eR44W9eXnMtnqlxZ_CiuEixoKKh4TEWlFisHLJ7LsJ8-_qlDfGZTlVXQI15GxMcVSx9x4JUQodHrbA099fsYqsYl3GB3s4EqbthyiAesjsfQz3wnQ8IdTkEbEeaG8dP-GS98R0pAV1OQn-8eberbVaAoo9JgNLrvX-M5GdGu8D4LAFsHwAz3RGPoAQI45lKeW4OWkGHSUvDM6drqvMOLPDYi-cgw3zSTYZa_Hmdo1CCttxyC5LMaFiOwShwRmgnBvPtZQzG65ayEySSCop1VB7qSqsBlHWU4LJDWRB05_wVmyRy14DivFDVPSVYvI01eqbD8QtymDe2Xsp1nUr1zXMrZqUXAycW8nusWLS1fdUE1rfRD7m6w1_A5EcACYkpLVuLMqkTOxqu6KDnoMy_S0i3bIOVpQdMUgYmWwZg6GOj-vfNonfdYPFei_KDtAFJsYAWAL3jrQk6tnrAoSBJt4Fqzg3SM7XTdzK4TTmRMVLX4Bi9TeThjYvcqu66WIKtDqP8abY0jDkL964MvEu6RqNXPPNH4X3Z_aWo=w1270-h953-no?authuser=1

HFyQTlmL8ZFyl4jsOX7kyln2jdy57ORD6FYQt0VKCWW0pI0OLi6Iqpkyv6AdAQCl5Tiv9Bu6ccLqsfDyfdd796peL_RGdQzkft5bd74AIrxAA932bve_JYWDcjxTl7ix8rScPy3mD5KbJhBUITIUX2VRT2neKkS3xkgqxv5YqupS2zCRjG6lawWAyKu0cCa1CvzfaMSfo8yFtvtc0QH-CIoCG-t0gIIIU6HUotZVcJGGz_0Qvanwt_AuLLALUlL2eE59J6wkXrXvkb-lMuwjyP9kEssv5vkSJ4JEKZqIof2daFLF1EhMgoIl7WT32Agz4pDfpHqh1wdeayog16yZfqRrThbxyPDb8a8XyZbx5J9iIQpSGrqOfB5Yzu25G4PUTFx2KtIvo0PmY-rgMH8p-CNesEbt3FIU-awRzMABkl2XyzxWxLKiLhGDYcLrkDisNZiS0hI_e_WmG2OaSefV0-gfB98vFasI883-CdoskRBuHjdggF94azG_zKSsacMvPZ6itzBW6rkvhvxXURzLcAOAeg6HUAw3Z6tDA6wT-i9CuMJ5P_6fot4uYnHv6r2cWrWB2-aS-fIPx_lPApWxbwmtjYmAe2u8LZRKY27rR4-DJ6ixWx7W5BrXUx4dyZw7mQLW2zP4dcn-PQOPc9_iEwKpuQngZbHwz-5Q892i42ubJFqgqed1OeML-hGcqVdBKn1D-gh8haBSBsZ0OyH52EAA=w1270-h953-no?authuser=1

 

18ePo630HgSHfoVzCi_ORXX5k62p2HpyzgdBqSIH5ujPvTsQjEJ3jO20b6jCVD0tRZATdF8hxDTFf5zeT3ugPPeEsmZEGz3fLwxGOG4Yc6zYHIMiU32DWYya_1-zsqxBC9niybTznDfX5kY08Z4UkKxPaef942gQr_cMjACU9PJID3OcpNEx4AkECfCMianyBbGwE5nDV54I2Z4vAj1QUUNCBuMlCuaiVuHTXWmcqtSDMk5TcNFb8D49hW9kkuC7s4AvUfZzjcFGhpzXv4MNBbQiSOSCibhiw1UvzI_NOF-FqZqSvFsWIRk9j9rnuLMPw-mXg2s7XY_aEpYJBdp_s6Jt3mGxOFmJM4btkNu4k_atVqPMDLXIOQE5eRGaS_HgwwzhuO63tE96DSKfrJDovKo_N8qzTXk5A59KaAbDqyY7WTrPPOBlcESqJx8mp9JBc5L31sIITaKcQaFW5e0Tm0lOnxbFZjPJk6laHRpkLBeB6ADEWOXxON-GQiuvsno8fCOUu86XCmVvPoTdoEpGMNO1a735y_veEhvLS934AGDowyzfbTm4ZUtizpEXzD13xTTcfFdnO12XfHIuR4hhaxaUHa9B0_07z7qO47u6HOoN2SG0fgzZhFxR2kwAX8rDyeBNXi5w47Y0vuqaAX4eoztlh94J7WnySaxEwpZDAU6GFjn-6vwfhN1wL0mklQYGFt4AKO8hYDkLVKYnYlZ1ZvDY=w1270-h953-no?authuser=1

 

dnZWH0R0yl_AoN1VVj8kWUELIVMv1DJHJEY-hilF5b13boJfjRs11ceiZn_SdEVp0HpqQPKLfZAWjO_5qFwF-RWOjhM5tGKAhTlDcVIm8kYXaM8whRxcqX93lBc5UMzkcRcfHyomJlc5uzS_pgqS1bPFMmfcTdjVowvMr-gRjnOqx034aZ5bokRuCCNreDVVtTBlrHeY6ghTj01_hFvOvUB9a42g1iL9GqIME79QTkf1CySyR50yO6tlh5Ucsak5hl3WMTwZ52y0F_PFDbyggr9sJ_ho67E6NJcj4VYUkmsu1fviW2AxCfMKX_KyxS-fnOOjSuUp7hXMVEdtRyyADGTM7VRCK7SNmb-9zyD9BHxXzDtreE0NdTs15-Le1rqHS-6fP-No_ZwNDdgo-CvXBE43UwtPmbkXJssjpyG67HnEyPgehTXtPZ-RN7eKkXQZGVGQdIbPpOk_62FuCnsGLVATBFH54iZtw-JRFIunM3SaCp6cRfPfTzFckBDEGdPaYlmCICHyxfS-vFBA0LFQn-mBNZUN29zXU_PjECieG7xmpJIzKdYfCiaes5stLhrY42Bo8B2w1ORo5zhxfzuCKkQSVMhjv-mQpUOFtdna6wRRQwXC943q4r7iDZD7A4Z8grqQpW5RsU0EziDuADCUGyl9EeCNkqLiDL-xXnAqv2tKSI3Z6tMK-tKFQCx47k744_4I-dDgs0Od8c3u8HT-cekW=w1270-h953-no?authuser=1

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...