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How to become the Challenger of Record


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The recent scuttlebutt regarding consideration being given towards changing the Challenger of Record, raises a question; how does a yacht club become Challenger of Record in the present day. 

Back in the “old days” it appeared that the agent of a yacht club would chase down the winning boat immediately after the finish, jump on board and hand the skipper its challenge.  I even recall hearing of an incident where two potential challengers displayed their roller derby moves as they elbowed each other out of the way trying to be first.

The Deed of Gift appears silent on the issue and I do not recall the NY Courts ruling on a process.   Further, it would appear that if a winning boat, now the new America’s Cup Defender, were to accept a challenge in advance of becoming the Defender, make some related agreement or created some process which hindered the presentation of another bona fid challenge,  then any potential challenger who was kept from such rightful presentation of a challenge would seem to have multiple causes of action against a Defender.

Given how modern day Defenders and Challengers have attempted to transform the America's Cup, from what was originally donated upon the condition that it shall be preserved as a perpetual challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries, into a multi-faceted, multi-media marketing machine focused on making a profit (with varying degrees of success) a Challenger of Record friendly to the Defender’s business plan has become as important in that process as the Defender.

Therefore, if an organized yacht club which met the requirements of the Deed of Gift wanted to submit a challenge, how could they do so without being discriminated against by the Defender.

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17 minutes ago, timmytwinstay said:

The recent scuttlebutt regarding consideration being given towards changing the Challenger of Record, raises a question; how does a yacht club become Challenger of Record in the present day. 

Back in the “old days” it appeared that the agent of a yacht club would chase down the winning boat immediately after the finish, jump on board and hand the skipper its challenge.  I even recall hearing of an incident where two potential challengers displayed their roller derby moves as they elbowed each other out of the way trying to be first.

The Deed of Gift appears silent on the issue and I do not recall the NY Courts ruling on a process.   Further, it would appear that if a winning boat, now the new America’s Cup Defender, were to accept a challenge in advance of becoming the Defender, make some related agreement or created some process which hindered the presentation of another bona fid challenge,  then any potential challenger who was kept from such rightful presentation of a challenge would seem to have multiple causes of action against a Defender.

Given how modern day Defenders and Challengers have attempted to transform the America's Cup, from what was originally donated upon the condition that it shall be preserved as a perpetual challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries, into a multi-faceted, multi-media marketing machine focused on making a profit (with varying degrees of success) a Challenger of Record friendly to the Defender’s business plan has become as important in that process as the Defender.

Therefore, if an organized yacht club which met the requirements of the Deed of Gift wanted to submit a challenge, how could they do so without being discriminated against by the Defender.

Without a preliminary agreement there's no way anyone can  become COR, I fear.

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13 hours ago, timmytwinstay said:

Therefore, if an organized yacht club which met the requirements of the Deed of Gift wanted to submit a challenge, how could they do so without being discriminated against by the Defender.

They can't. Unless they are in fact the favoured CoR.

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22 hours ago, timmytwinstay said:

...

Back in the “old days” it appeared that the agent of a yacht club would chase down the winning boat immediately after the finish, jump on board and hand the skipper its challenge.  I even recall hearing of an incident where two potential challengers displayed their roller derby moves as they elbowed each other out of the way trying to be first....

The winning boat has nothing to do with it, the challenge is made by a yacht club, to the club holding the cup.

So you need to approach a club official and hand over a notice of challenge the moment the final race is over.

Nowadays they usually agree beforehand who will challenge before the racing, so the two commodores (or other club officials) usually watch the race from the same location and hand over the challenge there and then.

I believe this is a fairly recent development in the cup. In the past, years would pass without anyone actually challenging. This is what left the door open for Michael Fay to make his big boat challenge in 1988. I would guess that since then the "immediate" challenge has become routine.

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He has to 1) be the best friend of the future winner and agree with him on how to be accepted before any other challenge, which is impossible with the present teams as they already know who they chose, or 2) send a challenge to the winner at the first split of a second after the end of the last race and go to the NYYSC and prove that the chosen "hip pocket" CoR is not Deed compliant.

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

He has to 1) be the best friend of the future winner and agree with him on how to be accepted before any other challenge, which is impossible with the present teams as they already know who they chose, or 2) send a challenge to the winner at the first split of a second after the end of the last race and go to the NYYSC and prove that the chosen "hip pocket" CoR is not Deed compliant.

Wouldn’t it be interesting if someone were to pull another “Larry”.  The Defender would seem to have almost, if not an actual fiduciary obligation to “promote friendly completion between foreign countries” and if the Defender keeps challengers it does not like from having a fair opportunity to present a challenge, there would likely be a cause of action to present a relatively simple and inexpensive case.  

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50 minutes ago, timmytwinstay said:

Wouldn’t it be interesting if someone were to pull another “Larry”.  The Defender would seem to have almost, if not an actual fiduciary obligation to “promote friendly completion between foreign countries” and if the Defender keeps challengers it does not like from having a fair opportunity to present a challenge, there would likely be a cause of action to present a relatively simple and inexpensive case.  

Larry didn't really do anything other than call out Alinghi for having a COR that was nowhere near compliant with the requirements of the deed (it's just a shame he turned out to be an even bigger asshat!).

Any yacht club that has been around for more than 5 years and actually holds regular regattas would be much much harder to unseat as COR.

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1 hour ago, timmytwinstay said:

Wouldn’t it be interesting if someone were to pull another “Larry”.  The Defender would seem to have almost, if not an actual fiduciary obligation to “promote friendly completion between foreign countries” and if the Defender keeps challengers it does not like from having a fair opportunity to present a challenge, there would likely be a cause of action to present a relatively simple and inexpensive case.  

Well, "simple and inexpensive" case, not sure ! But, interesting, for sure as it has not been challenged in court before.

 

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1 hour ago, timmytwinstay said:

Wouldn’t it be interesting if someone were to pull another “Larry”.  The Defender would seem to have almost, if not an actual fiduciary obligation to “promote friendly completion between foreign countries” and if the Defender keeps challengers it does not like from having a fair opportunity to present a challenge, there would likely be a cause of action to present a relatively simple and inexpensive case.  

Nope.

We all learned a lot about how trusts are interpreted by New York courts around AC 33. They are interpreted strictly by the terms laid out in the trust and only consider broader interpretations when the terms in "the four corners" of the page are not clear.

The deed is quite clear about what constitutes a legal challenger and what the defender's duty is in accepting challenges. 

Courts will not step in under the "promote friendly competition" language if the defender and CoR meet the specific terms outlined in the deed.

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Let’s assume the British beat New Zealand (with no charge to the current CoR).  At the moment the British win, there is no Challenger of Record.  Further, if the British at any point thwarted the attempt of a legal challenger to present a challenge for any reason, but particularly if it could be shown that said challenger might not view their plan for the next cup favorably, that would seem to be a circumstance where any court, but particularly the New York Courts would hear the case.

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On 2/13/2021 at 8:25 AM, strider470 said:

Without a preliminary agreement there's no way anyone can  become COR, I fear.

In a nutshell, that is correct.

After DC's successful victory in Freo, the heavies at SDYC failed to take a leaf out of the NYYC's playbook and made no provision for a future challenge. Time passed and Michael Fay and his brains trust were inspired to lodge a challenge as specified by the Deed of Gift. We all know about court action followed by NZ's failure with the Big Boat. 

Broadly, challenges since then have involved the Defender negotiating a draft Protocol in advance of their match. Before the final race, the Commodore of the challenging club is hosted aboard the yacht carrying the Defender's commodore. The finish gun signals a successful challenge that's also the signal for the Hip Pocket Challenge.

If LR wins Prada Cup and then the  match they will hold the Cup and become it's Defender. 

Precedent suggests that Team NZ will get to challenge again, if they wish. But that is unexplored territory.

What is even more interesting is what Team NZ will do if they win? There appears to be room to set up a challenge from whomever they wish.

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12 minutes ago, timmytwinstay said:

Let’s assume the British beat New Zealand (with no charge to the current CoR).  At the moment the British win, there is no Challenger of Record.  Further, if the British at any point thwarted the attempt of a legal challenger to present a challenge for any reason, but particularly if it could be shown that said challenger might not view their plan for the next cup favorably, that would seem to be a circumstance where any court, but particularly the New York Courts would hear the case.

Both clubs in the match will have a negotiated CoR present and ready to present a challenge the moment their boat crosses the line.

There is nothing in the deed to stop this and you're just wrong if you think the NYSC will do anything about it, unless there is something deficient about the challenge under the specific terms of the deed.

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5 hours ago, idontwan2know said:

Both clubs in the match will have a negotiated CoR present and ready to present a challenge the moment their boat crosses the line.

There is nothing in the deed to stop this and you're just wrong if you think the NYSC will do anything about it, unless there is something deficient about the challenge under the specific terms of the deed.

 

4 hours ago, timmytwinstay said:

Time will tell.

You received a succinct answer from  idontwan2know.  The only thing that's missing is the names of the match contestants,

 

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7 hours ago, idontwan2know said:

Both clubs in the match will have a negotiated CoR present and ready to present a challenge the moment their boat crosses the line.

Curious to know who LR has in mind, as they seem to share no love with any other team right now.

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Interesting. There's nothing much left of Alinghi as-was and the sailors of 2007 aren't really foiling generation, fun to see who gets hired. Assuming it happens.

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Interesting. There's nothing much left of Alinghi as-was and the sailors of 2007 aren't really foiling generation, fun to see who gets hired. Assuming it happens.

Burling, Tuke and Ashby; the AC is about traditions, you know?!

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In the current climate if you don't have a rep on board at the conclusion of the last race you want to hand challenge documents to the front desk of the club and to their legal representation the moment the race finishes (documenting the time clearly).  Pretty sure there is nothing that says who has to accept the challenge so just an envelope handed to reception would probably count.

You then have 2 choices both of which will require good lawyers.

1. Proceed to the NYSC with a case that you challenged first or
2. Wait for the better than even chance that the original challenger of record defaults then push the case that any contracts signed between the two parties no longer have any value demand via the courts that you're appointed COR.

On a side note.  When was the last time a challenger of record actually won the AC?  Do you really want that poisoned challis?  

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Yacht Club Office will be shut up tighter than Fort Knox, all representatives will be on the water watching

The club’s internet cable will be unplugged due to technical problems

 

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I favour Hunger Games: CoR AC37.

All interested yacht club Commodores on Rangitoto, with an assortment of weaponry and wild animals. The surviving Commodore may submit their challenge.

Would make good viewing while we await the next cycle.

 

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32 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Here’s a teaser: avoid the term ‘Keel Yacht’ 

;) :) 

 

Hmm you got me there, I know it was debated in court with both recent dog matches but how does that get past the fact no one will even get closer than 100m of RNZYS property let alone any authorised personnel to deliver a challenge in time. 

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1 hour ago, amc said:

Hmm you got me there, I know it was debated in court with both recent dog matches but how does that get past the fact no one will even get closer than 100m of RNZYS property let alone any authorised personnel to deliver a challenge in time. 

Yes, I was having fun with the allusion to the ‘keel yacht’ used in the GGYC Challenge handed in by hand at the SNG, including with photos taken of that event. 
 

There is a ‘precedent’ that was set timing-wise for Challengers who would fall in line to be CoR should Hamilton Island either retract or get knocked out. It was a midnight entry (SF time) and an ETNZ guy that I yakked with later described how he’d sent an RNZYS Challenge multiple times starting right before the SF midnight, and ending a few minutes later. Through whatever email server trail forwarding delays, Artemis (who did the same thing) somehow came closer to right after midnight, by the GGYC email logs that TE had to show when questioned by ETNZ. 
 

I can guarantee that there are ways to time stamp things, through a variety of electronic measures, with time stamps far more accurate than what two Blazers with fancy ink pens on some ‘secured’ boat - no matter if they have a cloud connection or not. 
 

More broadly, it’s a bit ridiculous that a potential Defender can ‘consider’ another challenge, and thereby preselect a Challenger, even before the current Match has been won. The hip-pocket Challenge is arguably illegal by the DoG’s words. 

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3 hours ago, Nutta said:

I favour Hunger Games: CoR AC37.

All interested yacht club Commodores on Rangitoto, with an assortment of weaponry and wild animals. The surviving Commodore may submit their challenge.

Would make good viewing while we await the next cycle.

 

give at an un-controlled twist and put them on White Island

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6 hours ago, Lickindip said:

I thought I heard the rumor the BA was at the doc waiting for the teams return with a piece similar piece of paper to challenge them ..

That was my pic: the current at the time RYS Commodore standing forlornly on the dock.

I meant to caption it 'how not to become the challenger of record' :o

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5 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes, I was having fun with the allusion to the ‘keel yacht’ used in the GGYC Challenge handed in by hand at the SNG, including with photos taken of that event. 
 

There is a ‘precedent’ that was set timing-wise for Challengers who would fall in line to be CoR should Hamilton Island either retract or get knocked out. It was a midnight entry (SF time) and an ETNZ guy that I yakked with later described how he’d sent an RNZYS Challenge multiple times starting right before the SF midnight, and ending a few minutes later. Through whatever email server trail forwarding delays, Artemis (who did the same thing) somehow came closer to right after midnight, by the GGYC email logs that TE had to show when questioned by ETNZ. 
 

I can guarantee that there are ways to time stamp things, through a variety of electronic measures, with time stamps far more accurate than what two Blazers with fancy ink pens on some ‘secured’ boat - no matter if they have a cloud connection or not. 
 

More broadly, it’s a bit ridiculous that a potential Defender can ‘consider’ another challenge, and thereby preselect a Challenger, even before the current Match has been won. The hip-pocket Challenge is arguably illegal by the DoG’s words. 

The only other vaguely workable solution would be a ballot of some type. All prospective challengers have to be in by midnight the day of the final race. The new COR is drawn by ballot at midday the next day.

For better or worse this is the system and any first in first served system is open to abuse either by the defender or by prospective challengers. Do we really want challengers DOS attacking each other's servers just so they can win by milliseconds at midnight...

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6 hours ago, Boybland said:

The only other vaguely workable solution would be a ballot of some type. All prospective challengers have to be in by midnight the day of the final race. The new COR is drawn by ballot at midday the next day.

For better or worse this is the system and any first in first served system is open to abuse either by the defender or by prospective challengers. Do we really want challengers DOS attacking each other's servers just so they can win by milliseconds at midnight...

Electronic warfare in the Cup? Sounds entertaining 

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15 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes, I was having fun with the allusion to the ‘keel yacht’ used in the GGYC Challenge handed in by hand at the SNG, including with photos taken of that event. 
 

There is a ‘precedent’ that was set timing-wise for Challengers who would fall in line to be CoR should Hamilton Island either retract or get knocked out. It was a midnight entry (SF time) and an ETNZ guy that I yakked with later described how he’d sent an RNZYS Challenge multiple times starting right before the SF midnight, and ending a few minutes later. Through whatever email server trail forwarding delays, Artemis (who did the same thing) somehow came closer to right after midnight, by the GGYC email logs that TE had to show when questioned by ETNZ. 
 

I can guarantee that there are ways to time stamp things, through a variety of electronic measures, with time stamps far more accurate than what two Blazers with fancy ink pens on some ‘secured’ boat - no matter if they have a cloud connection or not. 
 

More broadly, it’s a bit ridiculous that a potential Defender can ‘consider’ another challenge, and thereby preselect a Challenger, even before the current Match has been won. The hip-pocket Challenge is arguably illegal by the DoG’s words. 

I agree with you regarding the last comment. 

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5 minutes ago, amc said:

I agree with you regarding the last comment. 

So, "consider" is the new "having"? Does it mean "think about it", then hip pocket challenges are illegal the moment the current defender or the current challenger (hoping to become the defender) are thinking about the future. Does it mean "act on it", a hip pocket challenge is o.k. as long as the document is not signed and races not planned until the current challenge is decided.

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On 2/13/2021 at 9:58 PM, idontwan2know said:

Both clubs in the match will have a negotiated CoR present and ready to present a challenge the moment their boat crosses the line.

There is nothing in the deed to stop this and you're just wrong if you think the NYSC will do anything about it, unless there is something deficient about the challenge under the specific terms of the deed.

This is correct and entirely fair.

Whoever wins the cup takes it home (or keeps it home). They also get to choose their challenger of record. AS they should. They won. They have some influence over what kind of event they are going to choose and that will be worked out with a CoR that they see as a partner they can work with.

In the AC final, the two commodores of both teams will be watching the match. On board with them will be chosen representatives of future CoR ready to present the challenge . Lots of negotiations will have gone on ahead of time. The CoR could be an existing participant of one of the 4 teams in Auckland or an entirely different team.

Each team will set out some conditions they want to see in the next cup and the two teams will pair up accordingly.  LRP and ETNZ have worked together for quite some time.

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I wonder how the tightened lockdown will effect ETNZ corp search for offshore gold to ensure they stay intact win or lose.

Dubai has bottomless resources and could probably fund ETNZ corp and one of their own.  Think of it -- Defender and COR backed by the same resources under different club/corporations.  Sounds like a win-win for ETNZ corp.  Just another crazy twist in the history of the AC.  Before anyone loses their mind - its all meant in fun.  But ..... isn't there already some insestuous back room deals with recent CORs.  :)

   

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I think anybody who goes poking too far into this issue in court may find themselves getting more than they bargained for out of the equation.

The entire multi-challenger cup defense with a challenger of record that can change before the defense takes place is plainly not what the deed contemplated and has never actually been blessed by the courts.

Piss off the wrong judge and you could end the gravy train permanently, at least until an amended deed were approved.

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On 2/13/2021 at 6:31 PM, timmytwinstay said:

 The Defender would seem to have almost, if not an actual fiduciary obligation to “promote friendly completion between foreign countries”

Of all the posters on SA over the years you are the only one I actually think has a chance of being Larry or one of his right hand men.  And no, their only duty is to defend the first valid challenge they receive.

I have long maintained that someone should sue to invalidate hip pocket challenges, but I was also in court during the 2007-2010 mess and the judges disabused me of the notion.

 

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On 2/12/2021 at 7:25 PM, strider470 said:

Without a preliminary agreement there's no way anyone can  become COR, I fear.

all worked ok in Bermuda though, or were you 'fearing' then too?

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13 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

all worked ok in Bermuda though, or were you 'fearing' then too?

I was not fearing and I was right.  no proposal of a

1 - 1 match in Italy.

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it was reference to the preliminary agreement, something you were happy for Prada to benefit from.

 

the recent interview with Ratcliffe actually settles some of the accusations, it is ETNZ choice NOT his where ac37 takes place, he has NOT issued a DOG challenge and he completely opposes the notion that he is buying the cup (hence it being NZ choice where 37 takes place.

 

the NZ herald copied and pasted and added text to it and created a different narrative that Forourselves has then quoted as the original creating more misinformation 

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29 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

it was reference to the preliminary agreement, something you were happy for Prada to benefit from.

 

the recent interview with Ratcliffe actually settles some of the accusations, it is ETNZ choice NOT his where ac37 takes place, he has NOT issued a DOG challenge and he completely opposes the notion that he is buying the cup (hence it being NZ choice where 37 takes place.

 

the NZ herald copied and pasted and added text to it and created a different narrative that Forourselves has then quoted as the original creating more misinformation 

As long as there will be a regular CSS open to all teams in AC37 I'm perfectly happy with UK being COR.

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

As long as there will be a regular CSS open to all teams in AC37 I'm perfectly happy with UK being COR.

isn't that up to the defender? who they choose to defend against?

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41 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

isn't that up to the defender? who they choose to defend against?

In my opinion it's a mutual consent matter having or not a CSS.

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

In my opinion it's a mutual consent matter having or not a CSS.

It requires mutual consent to have a CSS with Challengers representing different clubs..

It does not require mutual consent to have a 1 vs 1 (that is the default)

 

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12 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

It requires mutual consent to have a CSS with Challengers representing different clubs..

It does not require mutual consent to have a 1 vs 1 (that is the default)

 

I in part agree, I wrote in a wrong way.  It's not completely correct this either, the default being a DoG 1 - 1 match.  This, instead, would be a 1 - 1 match with conditions set by mutual consent.

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7 hours ago, strider470 said:

As long as there will be a regular CSS open to all teams in AC37 I'm perfectly happy with UK being COR.

@strider470

I actually personally think whether we have a CSS for AC37 depends on COVID19!

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44 minutes ago, strider470 said:

If the AC event is sold to UK

Ffs, Jim has already said he isn’t paying for it and IF an event is held in the U.K. then it is NZ choice, NOT his 
 

how is that selling the AC event to the U.K? 

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49 minutes ago, strider470 said:

If the AC event is sold to UK

Not just the UK! The way things are going ETNZ and ITUK will not be able to stage any Sailing AC-related Event in the Northern Hemisphere until 2023 at the earliest!

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11 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Ffs, Jim has already said he isn’t paying for it and IF an event is held in the U.K. then it is NZ choice, NOT his 
 

how is that selling the AC event to the U.K? 

Because we all know Grant Dalton. If ETNZ will ever defend the Cup outside New Zealand, it will be because they shop the venue! We all know there is already a document leak that proved they were searching for bidding. Or you think it will just be for the sake of sailing Te Rehutai around the ISle of Wight, and doing so upsetting NZ government and supporters as well?

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Just now, strider470 said:

Because we all know Grandt Dalton. If ETNZ will ever defend the Cup outside New Zealanf, it will be because they shop the venue! We all know there is already a document leak that proved they were searching for bidding. Or you think it will just be for the sake of sailing Te Rehutai around the ISle of Wight, and doing so upsetting NZ government and supporters as well?

Indeed but that is his prerogative as defender. 
and no we dont KNOW GD people might have met him once at an event or seen him but that isn’t knowing someone is it. 
 

 

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5 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Indeed but that is his prerogative as defender. 
and no we dont KNOW GD people might have met him once at an event or seen him but that isn’t knowing someone is it. 
 

Please come on. You've perfectly understood what I mean. If ETNZ, always struggling for money to fund their campaigns, will defend outside NZ, it will be for money only. There is no other possible reason. And this is a fact. If you think otherwise give me a logical explanation.

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On 2/14/2021 at 1:26 AM, Boybland said:

Larry didn't really do anything other than call out Alinghi for having a COR that was nowhere near compliant with the requirements of the deed (it's just a shame he turned out to be an even bigger asshat!).

Any yacht club that has been around for more than 5 years and actually holds regular regattas would be much much harder to unseat as COR.

I read that “the Challenger of Record for AC37 will be Royal Yacht Squadron Racing, a corporate vehicle created by the Royal Yacht Squadron to protect the UK club’s members from liability if any financial disasters flow from their challenge.

 I thought that the challengers in AC HAD to be a club, when Royal Yacht Squadron Racing is certainly something else.

 Does not seem legal …

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39 minutes ago, Mikel_new said:

I read that “the Challenger of Record for AC37 will be Royal Yacht Squadron Racing, a corporate vehicle created by the Royal Yacht Squadron to protect the UK club’s members from liability if any financial disasters flow from their challenge.

 I thought that the challengers in AC HAD to be a club, when Royal Yacht Squadron Racing is certainly something else.

 Does not seem legal …

Yawn.. 

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

Please come on. You've perfectly understood what I mean. If ETNZ, always struggling for money to fund their campaigns, will defend outside NZ, it will be for money only. There is no other possible reason. And this is a fact. If you think otherwise give me a logical explanation.

I agree, but as has just been stated by Ratcliffe, the money isn’t coming from him, which screws the conspiracy and allegations that INEOS were buying the cup.

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

I agree 

When the UK will finally win the Cup, I will be very pleased, and it will be epic bringing it back where all this started! But before that, as a supporter, I obviously hope that next time it will be Luna Rossa turn. Then you can win the Cup and keep it until some boat from the US will maybe start everything from scratch.

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did Bermuda finally win the cup? did Valencia? its been done before that the venue for the defence IS NOT the home of the defender so what's the issue? GD thinks he needs to look for venues for loads of reasons, raising funds is likely one of them. the way that everyone is jumping on Ratcliffe to give him a kicking is pretty pathetic. 

every supporter crying that it might go to the UK would be strangely silent if Emirates dug deep and paid for a defence in the UAE , or Prada said no fuck you lets host in Italy.it was an open offer to submit a host application  

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7 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

did Bermuda finally win the cup? did Valencia? its been done before that the venue for the defence IS NOT the home of the defender so what's the issue? GD thinks he needs to look for venues for loads of reasons, raising funds is likely one of them. the way that everyone is jumping on Ratcliffe to give him a kicking is pretty pathetic. 

every supporter crying that it might go to the UK would be strangely silent if Emirates dug deep and paid for a defence in the UAE , or Prada said no fuck you lets host in Italy.it was an open offer to submit a host application  

If that's not a problem for the Kiwis, it's not at all for me going to the UK, as long as the AC will remain open to all the challengers.

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

did Bermuda finally win the cup? did Valencia? its been done before that the venue for the defence IS NOT the home of the defender so what's the issue? GD thinks he needs to look for venues for loads of reasons, raising funds is likely one of them. the way that everyone is jumping on Ratcliffe to give him a kicking is pretty pathetic. 

every supporter crying that it might go to the UK would be strangely silent if Emirates dug deep and paid for a defence in the UAE , or Prada said no fuck you lets host in Italy.it was an open offer to submit a host application  

No. 

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6 hours ago, Mikel_new said:

I read that “the Challenger of Record for AC37 will be Royal Yacht Squadron Racing, a corporate vehicle created by the Royal Yacht Squadron to protect the UK club’s members from liability if any financial disasters flow from their challenge.

 I thought that the challengers in AC HAD to be a club, when Royal Yacht Squadron Racing is certainly something else.

 Does not seem legal …

This is probably a non-issue. The deed does not have any specific requirements as far as corporate entities go. RYS Racing is clearly a subsidiary corporate entity of the Royal Yacht Squadron and not a separate club. I'm sure lawyers could rack up a lot of billable hours making a case otherwise, but I doubt a court would find it very compelling.

 

Not that the arbitration panel rulings mean anything in court, but this was raised there and given the all clear according to the rumors.

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6 hours ago, Mikel_new said:

 I thought that the challengers in AC HAD to be a club, when Royal Yacht Squadron Racing is certainly something else.

 

Incorrect. It's a club, whose members are also members of the RYS and whose rules are the rules of the RYS. 

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15 hours ago, strider470 said:

If that's not a problem for the Kiwis, it's not at all for me going to the UK, as long as the AC will remain open to all the challengers.

I'm not thrilled about shopping the venue, despite seeing it as a bargaining ploy, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

The deal breaker as you know is the attempt to subvert the DoG in a way that Ernie would be proud of.

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