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I've been pondering on this for a while, but it's becoming clearer and clearer to me that our decentralized system of gov't just is not working.  The Covid pandemic has laid bare all the issues with States running their own show.  It's not anything new, but it's never been as clear as it is now that our system of gov't is broken.   And I would submit that our entire society is crumbling as a result of this.  We have basically 50 different public healthcare systems - which has made the response to Covid and the roll out of the vaccines a clown show.  We have 50 different responses to the pandemic as far as rules on masking and distancing.   We have 50 different responses to unemployment.  We have 50 different responses to implementing obamacare.  We have 50 different Covid testing schemes.  We have 50 different responses to public emergencies (floods, wildfires, hurricanes, etc).  We have 50 different gun restriction plans.  We have 50 different approaches to public education.  We have 50 different responses to climate and environmental issues.  We have 50 different sets of election rules.  And the list goes on and on.

I get why the independent state framework exists.....  There would have been no "United" states in the beginning if we didn't concede this immense power to the states.  But I think we are FAR past that now.  And it's a horribly inefficient system for what I see as very little benefit.  And the reality is the states actually do very little of their own stuff because the expect the federal gov't to do all the heavy lifting.  They beg the Feds to deal with many many issues and are happy to slough off all the hard stuff onto the feds, yet retain their independence when it $uit$ them. 

I do not buy for a moment that public education is a different animal in FL than it is in CA.  I don't buy that a vaccination program in MA is different than one in AL.  Why is a car insurance policy or a health insurance policy in NV not good enough for WY if someone moves to a different state?

There is a concept in the military called "Centralized Control, Decentralized Execution".  It works really really well.  I think the Federal gov't should do the same and set the rules and standards for all of these enterprises and then have the states and local gov't execute them with modifications as necessary to suit their own unique requirements, if such a thing even exists.  As it is now, we have an incredibly complex patchwork of systems, standards and rules in place that creates massive inefficiencies.  

The only other alternative is for the FedGov to take an even more hands off approach and tell the states to pull more of their own weight.  No more federal money for schools, healthcare (medicaid and such), roads, unemployment, etc.  No more federal tax $ will go back to the states - they must raise their own revenue to cover ALL of their operations costs.  Federal taxes could be reduced and states would have to raise their own taxes.  But as it is now, states get all the benefits of being independant while carrying little of the responsibility to take care of themselves.  No more crying to Uncle Sam when you didn't prepare enough for that natural disaster or pandemic.  

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Wait, which is it: should the feds be in charge, or not?

Much of the way the feds dictate state action is through the power of the purse. Seems you are proposing the feds rule via unfunded mandate. Sounds extraordinarily confusing and unlikely to be effective.

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The shoe that fits an Alabaman, might not fit a Vermonter. Different rules for different regions. Imagine the confusion if you told a Floridian that they had to have functional snow tires on their car between Nov. and April. Imagine telling a Cantab co-ed that abortion was illegal. Imagine telling a Californian that they couldn't get a 6 pack to go from a bar.

 State based laws/local laws have a base in the history of the place. Some times they get changed. Used to be that in Ct. you had to have a person walking in front of your car holding a lantern if you were driving w/in city limits.

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

The only other alternative is for the FedGov to take an even more hands off approach and tell the states to pull more of their own weight.  No more federal money for schools, healthcare (medicaid and such), roads, unemployment, etc.  No more federal tax $ will go back to the states - they must raise their own revenue to cover ALL of their operations costs.  Federal taxes could be reduced and states would have to raise their own taxes.  But as it is now, states get all the benefits of being independant while carrying little of the responsibility to take care of themselves.  No more crying to Uncle Sam when you didn't prepare enough for that natural disaster or pandemic.  

It's not going to happen because that's now where the sentiment of The People is right now. We don't seem to want representation at the State level, we want representation at the highest levels of government, the National Government. The Feds see that and then just give us what we want ... lots and lots of politics in every form possible; politics as entertainment, politics as morality, politics as logic, politics as religion, politics as emotion, politics as forgiveness, politics as love itself.

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

  We have basically 50 different public healthcare systems -

50?  In Florida, when this all started, our Trump Minime threw it all to the county health departments to figure it out.  There are 67 of them.  In St. Johns, it resulted in people over 65 waiting in their cars, in mile long lines, overnight just for a chance to get a shot.  Duval wasn't much better.  It seems to have straightened out some now but it is still up to the counties.  

Hopefully other states figured it out.

This is a global problem.  We don't really have state borders that can handle people coming in from states with big problems to states with a little problem, making their problems bigger.  Some of this stuff really should be handled by the feds.

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Seems like I heard somewhere, that Maine health care companies (Read big business) hire union busters to come up from Florida to dissuade the Maine nursing community from unionizing.... And these Florida Union busters were all vaccinated for their service, while the nursing staff was told there was a shortage of vaccines.

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1 hour ago, Mrleft8 said:

The shoe that fits an Alabaman, might not fit a Vermonter. Different rules for different regions. Imagine the confusion if you told a Floridian that they had to have functional snow tires on their car between Nov. and April. Imagine telling a Cantab co-ed that abortion was illegal. Imagine telling a Californian that they couldn't get a 6 pack to go from a bar.

 State based laws/local laws have a base in the history of the place. Some times they get changed. Used to be that in Ct. you had to have a person walking in front of your car holding a lantern if you were driving w/in city limits.

You are then missing my point.  Centralized control, DECENTRALIZED Execution.  Each state and locality could then establish rules within the federal framework that addresses their location specific needs.  For example:

Federal law:  All cars must have functional tires that meets their regional specific criteria.

Maine Law:  All cars used on public roads will have functional SNOW tires between Nov to April.  

I used the military as an example of the Centralized control, decentralized execution.  The overall DOD has a framework of rules and regulations that apply to all of the military.  But they are broad in nature.  Then Each of the service branches have their service specific regs designed for their own needs AS LONG AS it still meets the intent and guidelines of the parent DOD regs.  Then each base has their own set of regs that is specific to their locality and how they would operate in a specific location or which meets their specific set of equipment and mission set.  And then each unit at that base would then further set rules and standards that is unique to them.  As long as the regs they set are still within the framework of the overall guidance from the level above them.  

AS it is now in our fed, state and local laws......  the fed can really only attempt to get compliance by giving and/or taking away money to the states.  But states can tell the feds to fuck off if they don't want to follow COVID guidelines for instance.

My point is, there are so many things we could standardize and create efficiencies if not for the massive patchwork of state and local regs and laws.  But unfortunately, Stites Rats seems to be able to trump anything.  

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18 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

You are then missing my point.  Centralized control, DECENTRALIZED Execution.  Each state and locality could then establish rules within the federal framework that addresses their location specific needs. 

 

You see, we have this thing called The Constitution...

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2 hours ago, Remodel said:

You see, we have this thing called The Constitution...

Yeah, but there are provisions for emergencies.  This is pretty much the definition of an emergency.  I have to say, I am pretty disappointed that the Biden admin has not taken emergency actions.  Of course I am selfishly coming from a few months sub 65 year old non essential (ie retired) person that is last in line to get a vaccine.

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If a Virginian drives up to Millinockett to buy a lobstah, from Bert and I in January, should they be required to put snow shoes on their car before they cross the state line?

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3 hours ago, Remodel said:

You see, we have this thing called The Constitution...

Burnin Man has this romantic notion that single man rule is efficient.  I guess that implies that the philosopher king is paying attention. :lol:

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44 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

If a Virginian drives up to Millinockett to buy a lobstah, from Bert and I in January, should they be required to put snow shoes on their car before they cross the state line?

Chains.

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44 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

If a Virginian drives up to Millinockett to buy a lobstah, from Bert and I in January, should they be required to put snow shoes on their car before they cross the state line?

Perhaps the question should be, Is a Virginian ignorant enough to drive in Maine in the winter, without snow tires? If so why.

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There is a statement that Culture follows Structure.  There is something wrong with the Political Culture at the moment.  Time to amend the Constitution and alter the Structure.

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1 hour ago, Laker said:

There is a statement that Culture follows Structure.  There is something wrong with the Political Culture at the moment.  Time to amend the Constitution and alter the Structure.

Pretty much that which makes the fringe stronger than the center. Closed primaries and winner-take-all elections. But that work has to be done at the state level. Cali has non-partisan districting, the Dems opened their primary and we’ve passed the NPV...

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16 hours ago, Keith said:

Perhaps the question should be, Is a Virginian ignorant enough to drive in Maine in the winter, without snow tires? If so why.

Can you even buy snow tires below the Mason Dixon line?

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33 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:
16 hours ago, Keith said:

Perhaps the question should be, Is a Virginian ignorant enough to drive in Maine in the winter, without snow tires? If so why.

Can you even buy snow tires below the Mason Dixon line?

Yes

However, in my state (North Carolina) you can get a ticket if you are driving with either chains or studded snow tires on a clear road.

- DSK

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16 hours ago, Keith said:

Perhaps the question should be, Is a Virginian ignorant enough to drive in Maine in the winter, without snow tires? If so why.

Trust me, yes.

Why? Could be the summer humidity and heat turns all of their brains blond, no matter what color their hair is. Certainly happens down here in the gunshine state.

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41 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Can you even buy snow tires below the Mason Dixon line?

Yeah, but down here they're called "Mud tires" and cost 3X what snows cost.

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17 hours ago, Amati said:

Burnin Man has this romantic notion that single man rule is efficient.  I guess that implies that the philosopher king is paying attention. :lol:

WTF are you talking about????  Where in the fuck did you get "single man rule" out of my OP?  There is such a thing as Congress, the courts and Federal agencies in addition to the POTUS that make up the "Federal gov't".  How does a single person control all of that?  

JFC!

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While reading through the thread I was struck by how many writers had written replies without reading and comprehending that to which they were ( not actually) replying. 
 

BM started an interesting conversation and, for some reason, many of you replied ( as I have with this post) without participating in the discussion. 
 

 

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2 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

whoise gonna win the Daytonna 500?

The... WHAT!?

If it's like it is here (but warmer) it'll be a very slick track. Heavy rain most of the day.

 I never understood the appeal of sitting in a bowl of exhaust fumes and beer breath, not to mention the ear splitting noise.

 But I guess that's how a lot of formerly intelligent people lose their brain cells, and become mullet haircut, skoal chewing, (trying not to go political here), idiots.

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6 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:
14 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

whoise gonna win the Daytonna 500?

The... WHAT!?

If it's like it is here (but warmer) it'll be a very slick track. Heavy rain most of the day.

 I never understood the appeal of sitting in a bowl of exhaust fumes and beer breath, not to mention the ear splitting noise.

 But I guess that's how a lot of formerly intelligent people lose their brain cells, and become mullet haircut, skoal chewing, (trying not to go political here), idiots.

Terribelle genalizations........          :)

Whast gotte you suckeng the bittere roote?  Hope reste of youre daye goese bettere...........                     :)

 

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As a kid in American history, civics, and social studies classes I wondered why we still had states. 
It seemed to me the colonies had merged into one country and the need for states went away shortly after the Revolution.

I lived my first 26 years near the NY PA border. Some time was spent living in each state snd I just happened to move at the right time to go through the state and local government class in each state.

in every case where NY and PA did things differently, I saw one state as sensible and the other as sorta stupid. 
In fact, most stupid things states do are done to please a local minority group that would be an insignificant group of stupid people if all fifty states were involved. 
    Beer selling laws were mentioned above. ( I also lived close to Ohio) The differences in laws pertaining to alcohol between the three states was farcical. In PA the drinking age was 21. In New York it was 18 and border towns all had party bars filled with Pennsylvanians.

  In Ohio, the drinking age was 21 except for 3.2 beer. Ohio’s teenager party bars were located to serve kids from Meadville, Sharon, Pittsburgh, and other towns close to  the western PA border.

 

Six of my classmates died driving home. The fucking assholes who created two different drinking ages may as well have killed 5% of every PA high school class and saved all the driving.
 

I see very little use for states....or counties 

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19 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Terribelle genalizations........          :)

Whast gotte you suckeng the bittere roote?  Hope reste of youre daye goese bettere...........                     :)

 

To be honest, between the weather, my broken body, the lack of income, the fact that half to 3/4 of my farming/yard equipment plus the generator needing fixing or replacement, the insects eating what few crops I had, or planted in the last few years, and Dr's offices that don't return calls, but have no trouble leaving nasty voicemails about past due bills, yeah, I have eaten a whole box of Bitch-Krispies lately.

I am sorry, I don't truly mean to take it out on anyone, but sometimes I need to vent.

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

As a kid in American history, civics, and social studies classes I wondered why we still had states. 
It seemed to me the colonies had merged into one country and the need for states went away shortly after the Revolution.

I lived my first 26 years near the NY PA border. Some time was spent living in each state snd I just happened to move at the right time to go through the state and local government class in each state.

in every case where NY and PA did things differently, I saw one state as sensible and the other as sorta stupid. 
In fact, most stupid things states do are done to please a local minority group that would be an insignificant group of stupid people if all fifty states were involved. 
    Beer selling laws were mentioned above. ( I also lived close to Ohio) The differences in laws pertaining to alcohol between the three states was farcical. In PA the drinking age was 21. In New York it was 18 and border towns all had party bars filled with Pennsylvanians.

  In Ohio, the drinking age was 21 except for 3.2 beer. Ohio’s teenager party bars were located to serve kids from Meadville, Sharon, Pittsburgh, and other towns close to  the western PA border.

 

Six of my classmates died driving home. The fucking assholes who created two different drinking ages may as well have killed 5% of every PA high school class and saved all the driving.
 

I see very little use for states....or counties 

Saw the same shit growing up on the NJ side of the Hudson River and later on the ILL (21), WI (18) border.  One of the few good things Reagan did was to make it 21 for everybody.

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

While reading through the thread I was struck by how many writers had written replies without reading and comprehending that to which they were ( not actually) replying. 
 

BM started an interesting conversation and, for some reason, many of you replied ( as I have with this post) without participating in the discussion. 
 

 

Zactly!  Thank you.  I don't know WTF is up with the massive projection that goes on here.  These same people constantly bitch about how fucked up the states are and then when attempting to to discuss changing that, they get all bitchy and think I'm talking about a dicktatorship.  JFC!

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47 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Zactly!  Thank you.  I don't know WTF is up with the massive projection that goes on here.  These same people constantly bitch about how fucked up the states are and then when attempting to to discuss changing that, they get all bitchy and think I'm talking about a dicktatorship.  JFC!

I came to the conclusion - based on evidence that you also note - that most here are just here to vent about how <whatever> is sooo unfair but either have NFI what they would like to see changed, or lack the guts to propose any change because that would expose them to attack. They're just not ideas type people.

We have a clause in our Australian constitution that basically says that if there is a conflict between a Federal and State law, Federal law overrides. But there are a lot of areas also reserved to the States and for the large part, any attempt to grant more power to the Federal Govt via referendum/amendment fails. We don't trust the Federal Govt that far.

Yes what you propose is more efficient - MAYBE. The current EU isn't a great exemplar. However, efficiency isn't everything when it comes to command and control in civilian power structures. The ability to white-ant or outright defy bad top-down decisions is more important IMO.

So overall I'd disagree with you and vote against any such proposal.

FKT

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9 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I came to the conclusion - based on evidence that you also note - that most here are just here to vent about how <whatever> is sooo unfair but either have NFI what they would like to see changed, or lack the guts to propose any change because that would expose them to attack. They're just not ideas type people.

We have a clause in our Australian constitution that basically says that if there is a conflict between a Federal and State law, Federal law overrides. But there are a lot of areas also reserved to the States and for the large part, any attempt to grant more power to the Federal Govt via referendum/amendment fails. We don't trust the Federal Govt that far.

Yes what you propose is more efficient - MAYBE. The current EU isn't a great exemplar. However, efficiency isn't everything when it comes to command and control in civilian power structures. The ability to white-ant or outright defy bad top-down decisions is more important IMO.

So overall I'd disagree with you and vote against any such proposal.

FKT

Fair enough - but your example of the EU is a poor one.  While the demographics of our states is diverse and there are often times quite big splits in mindset and culture, it is nothing like the EU.  At least here we have a common language (for those that bother) and a common origin.  The EU has neither is nothing but cat herding.  

What pisses me off is that during the early days of the pandemic - everyone is bitching at the Federal gov't and shitstain to solve everything and coordinate everything for the states.  But yet, the structure of our gov's is that states and localities are responsible for that shit, not the Fed gov.  The Feds actually have very little power to tell states what to do.  The POTUS can't tell states to order mandatory masking, they can't tell the states HOW to do their vaccine programs and on and on with a countless list of things.  So when it suits the states to bitch at the fed gov, they will.  When it suits them to run their own show, they do.  The states are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They are always sticking a hand out to the Feds for more money all the while they are letting their infrastructure crumble around them.  States were not prepared for the pandemic because they were not doing their fucking J-O-B.  

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2 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

What pisses me off is that during the early days of the pandemic - everyone is bitching at the Federal gov't and shitstain to solve everything and coordinate everything for the states.  But yet, the structure of our gov's is that states and localities are responsible for that shit, not the Fed gov.  The Feds actually have very little power to tell states what to do.  The POTUS can't tell states to order mandatory masking, they can't tell the states HOW to do their vaccine programs and on and on with a countless list of things.  So when it suits the states to bitch at the fed gov, they will.  When it suits them to run their own show, they do.  The states are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They are always sticking a hand out to the Feds for more money all the while they are letting their infrastructure crumble around them.  States were not prepared for the pandemic because they were not doing their fucking J-O-B.  

Same here in Oz, sunshine.

The States ALWAYS duck taking responsibility for raising money if they can while whining that they don't have enough. Funny thing, income tax was a State power and technically still is, but if they actually try to re-impose it, the Feds will simply withhold grant money matching the amount, so in effect it's a dead issue and has been since 1942.

Which is another example of why I don't like further centralisation of power, actually. Not that I want to pay State income tax on top of Federal, mind you.

What you propose is going to work out quite badly for regions, same as a State dominated by a single big city takes no notice of the regions.

FKT

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3 minutes ago, Burning Man said:
19 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I came to the conclusion - based on evidence that you also note - that most here are just here to vent about how <whatever> is sooo unfair but either have NFI what they would like to see changed, or lack the guts to propose any change because that would expose them to attack. They're just not ideas type people.

We have a clause in our Australian constitution that basically says that if there is a conflict between a Federal and State law, Federal law overrides. But there are a lot of areas also reserved to the States and for the large part, any attempt to grant more power to the Federal Govt via referendum/amendment fails. We don't trust the Federal Govt that far.

Yes what you propose is more efficient - MAYBE. The current EU isn't a great exemplar. However, efficiency isn't everything when it comes to command and control in civilian power structures. The ability to white-ant or outright defy bad top-down decisions is more important IMO.

So overall I'd disagree with you and vote against any such proposal.

FKT

Fair enough - but your example of the EU is a poor one.  While the demographics of our states is diverse and there are often times quite big splits in mindset and culture, it is nothing like the EU.  At least here we have a common language (for those that bother) and a common origin.  The EU has neither is nothing but cat herding.  

What pisses me off is that during the early days of the pandemic - everyone is bitching at the Federal gov't and shitstain to solve everything and coordinate everything for the states.  But yet, the structure of our gov's is that states and localities are responsible for that shit, not the Fed gov.  The Feds actually have very little power to tell states what to do.  The POTUS can't tell states to order mandatory masking, they can't tell the states HOW to do their vaccine programs and on and on with a countless list of things.  So when it suits the states to bitch at the fed gov, they will.  When it suits them to run their own show, they do.  The states are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They are always sticking a hand out to the Feds for more money all the while they are letting their infrastructure crumble around them.  States were not prepared for the pandemic because they were not doing their fucking J-O-B.  

A couple of misconceptions in both of these posts.

In the USA, there are things that states can do that the federal gov't cannot.  But no state can directly contravene federal law, and all states must give due respect to other states laws. I apologize for not knowing more details about the Australian Constitution to make a more detailed comparison.

Not all states are sticking their hand out for federal money. Some states are notorious 'takers' ... most of the old confederacy, all deep-red states, are getting major subsidies and the blue states are paying in.

The US gov't has vastly greater resources than any individual state. Does any state have disease monitoring stations around the world? Does any states have their own DNA labs? By definition, no individual state is going to have the data gathering and processing power of an agency like the NIH and CDC.

IMHO the bitching at Trump for badly mismanaging the pandemic is well-deserved. It didn't have to be this bad. It didn't have to be 1/4 this bad. Starting with putting mushroom-sucking sycophants in charge of medical science, to the travel non-ban, to downplaying the seriousness, to deciding to let the virus "do what viruses do" because it was primarily hitting blue states at the time, pirating PPE to sell to states... you name it, the Trump response was a fuck story. It's a textbook case (if we need one) of amoral self-serving predatory mobsters posing as a government.

Can the federal gov't tell the states to have mandatory mask-wearing in public? I don't know, but given a population of at least slightly rational adults, it shouldn't be necessary. Can the federal gov't give the best available scientific info to the states, and a list of advisory policies that will help limit contagion? Absolutely.

- DSK

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21 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Fair enough - but your example of the EU is a poor one.  While the demographics of our states is diverse and there are often times quite big splits in mindset and culture, it is nothing like the EU.  At least here we have a common language (for those that bother) and a common origin.  The EU has neither is nothing but cat herding.  

What pisses me off is that during the early days of the pandemic - everyone is bitching at the Federal gov't and shitstain to solve everything and coordinate everything for the states.  But yet, the structure of our gov's is that states and localities are responsible for that shit, not the Fed gov.  The Feds actually have very little power to tell states what to do.  The POTUS can't tell states to order mandatory masking, they can't tell the states HOW to do their vaccine programs and on and on with a countless list of things.  So when it suits the states to bitch at the fed gov, they will.  When it suits them to run their own show, they do.  The states are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  They are always sticking a hand out to the Feds for more money all the while they are letting their infrastructure crumble around them.  States were not prepared for the pandemic because they were not doing their fucking J-O-B.  

You are forgetting the 55 mph speed limit.  No, the Fed can't mandate that but it CAN tie Federal highway funds to adopting it.  It doesn't do any good in a pandemic for one state to have a solid health program and the hayhn yocks(sp?) in the next state over partying like it's 1385. Herbert Hoover learned, to his everlasting shame, that there are some problems that are too big for communities, counties or states to deal with.  If not, we would have stayed with the system that had no large national defense organization and depended on the states.   Like the Founders intended. 

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

A couple of misconceptions in both of these posts.

In the USA, there are things that states can do that the federal gov't cannot.  But no state can directly contravene federal law, and all states must give due respect to other states laws. I apologize for not knowing more details about the Australian Constitution to make a more detailed comparison.

Not all states are sticking their hand out for federal money. Some states are notorious 'takers' ... most of the old confederacy, all deep-red states, are getting major subsidies and the blue states are paying in.

The US gov't has vastly greater resources than any individual state. Does any state have disease monitoring stations around the world? Does any states have their own DNA labs? By definition, no individual state is going to have the data gathering and processing power of an agency like the NIH and CDC.

IMHO the bitching at Trump for badly mismanaging the pandemic is well-deserved. It didn't have to be this bad. It didn't have to be 1/4 this bad. Starting with putting mushroom-sucking sycophants in charge of medical science, to the travel non-ban, to downplaying the seriousness, to deciding to let the virus "do what viruses do" because it was primarily hitting blue states at the time, pirating PPE to sell to states... you name it, the Trump response was a fuck story. It's a textbook case (if we need one) of amoral self-serving predatory mobsters posing as a government.

Can the federal gov't tell the states to have mandatory mask-wearing in public? I don't know, but given a population of at least slightly rational adults, it shouldn't be necessary. Can the federal gov't give the best available scientific info to the states, and a list of advisory policies that will help limit contagion? Absolutely.

- DSK

Yes and also a textbook case of why further centralisation of command & control doesn't necessarily lead to better outcomes. Which is why I generally oppose any such attempts. There have been exceptions where I think the Feds should have more say. At present we're letting the States run quarantine with decidedly mixed results.

FWIW most of Australian States do have their own DNA labs.

Fundamentally a re-think of what should be done or defined at what level of Govt should be undertaken. Foreign affairs/defence - Feds for sure. Whole of country health monitoring? Feds. Education curriculum? Feds. Service delivery? States or smaller economic/political units.

But IMO your voting system is irredeemably broken and the drive is to make it worse so I don't expect anything going forward except things getting worse. Your current leadership has 2 years to effect some changes. Better get on with it.

FKT

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9 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
19 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

... IMHO the bitching at Trump for badly mismanaging the pandemic is well-deserved....

 

Yes and also a textbook case of why further centralisation of command & control doesn't necessarily lead to better outcomes. Which is why I generally oppose any such attempts. There have been exceptions where I think the Feds should have more say. At present we're letting the States run quarantine with decidedly mixed results.

FWIW most of Australian States do have their own DNA labs.

Fundamentally a re-think of what should be done or defined at what level of Govt should be undertaken. Foreign affairs/defence - Feds for sure. Whole of country health monitoring? Feds. Education curriculum? Feds. Service delivery? States or smaller economic/political units.

But IMO your voting system is irredeemably broken and the drive is to make it worse so I don't expect anything going forward except things getting worse. Your current leadership has 2 years to effect some changes. Better get on with it.

The problem with the Trump Administrations pandemic management is not over centralization, it's stupidity and greed and the arrogant assumption that anything any non-Trumpsucker says/does is both wrong and evil; combined with the determination to milk every possible circumstance for both profit and positive press (even if you have to lie).

Pretty much standard Trump M.O.

And yeah, the states have pretty capable DNA labs at the universities, but they still don't have the lab space or brainpower that the Feds have. No single state could afford a tenth of it.

Voting- yeah there are problems. Those are up to the states. And the bigger problem is that 70 million + USAnians saw 3 1/2 years of Trump and said "Hell yeah, gimme some more of that!"

- DSK

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"And the bigger problem is that 70 million + USAnians saw 3 1/2 years of Trump and said "Hell yeah, gimme some more of that!"

image.png.81991d3e99cb09e245b35224f63db4f7.png

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@Mrleft8

PLEASE!!!! 
delete that !!

nobody should ever have to see it 

maybe you thought it would be funny??

we all make mistakes

even the best comedians have bad jokes

please

delete it ASAP 

 

 

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On 2/15/2021 at 2:44 AM, Burning Man said:

WTF are you talking about????  Where in the fuck did you get "single man rule" out of my OP?  There is such a thing as Congress, the courts and Federal agencies in addition to the POTUS that make up the "Federal gov't".  How does a single person control all of that?  

JFC!

When virtue signaling backfires on leftist half-wit.:(

Boo-hoo, and then the tears begin to fall and he starts pissing herself.

UCMTSU!! :D

b4eg4.jpg

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On 2/14/2021 at 4:19 PM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yes and also a textbook case of why further centralisation of command & control doesn't necessarily lead to better outcomes. Which is why I generally oppose any such attempts. There have been exceptions where I think the Feds should have more say. At present we're letting the States run quarantine with decidedly mixed results.

FWIW most of Australian States do have their own DNA labs.

Fundamentally a re-think of what should be done or defined at what level of Govt should be undertaken. Foreign affairs/defence - Feds for sure. Whole of country health monitoring? Feds. Education curriculum? Feds. Service delivery? States or smaller economic/political units.

But IMO your voting system is irredeemably broken and the drive is to make it worse so I don't expect anything going forward except things getting worse. Your current leadership has 2 years to effect some changes. Better get on with it.

FKT

The system is not broken..  It really isn't, proved by the fact that none of the lawsuits worked and nothing was found even though this was probably the most scrutinized election in history.  I believe that the fix was in, they new it,  they were downplaying it cause the whole thing was rigged from the start.  They figured 70mm  would do it,  BUT....  The other side had an even bigger turnout than expected so their numbers were off setting them into PANIC mode.  (I would be interested in the voting machines in Mitche's, Lindsey's and Cruse's  county For example) Then add the shitstains insane ramblings and you get what we have today.  Why do you think all these repub legislators have passed so many new election suppression laws.  They have seen what they are up against and they are rigging it in their favor again.  Par for the course.  

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1 hour ago, shaggy said:

The system is not broken..  It really isn't, proved by the fact that none of the lawsuits worked and nothing was found even though this was probably the most scrutinized election in history.  I believe that the fix was in, they new it,  they were downplaying it cause the whole thing was rigged from the start.  They figured 70mm  would do it,  BUT....  The other side had an even bigger turnout than expected so their numbers were off setting them into PANIC mode.  (I would be interested in the voting machines in Mitche's, Lindsey's and Cruse's  county For example) Then add the shitstains insane ramblings and you get what we have today.  Why do you think all these repub legislators have passed so many new election suppression laws.  They have seen what they are up against and they are rigging it in their favor again.  Par for the course.  

You say the system isn't broken, then go on to say that it was rigged, the fix was in and only failed because it wasn't fixed ENOUGH.

Do you actually follow the logic of what you just wrote?

FKT

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2 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

You say the system isn't broken, then go on to say that it was rigged, the fix was in and only failed because it wasn't fixed ENOUGH.

Do you actually follow the logic of what you just wrote?

FKT

Yes, it's the fricking GOP and the deep red states, when they have the balls to do what they did well.. This is what you get.  The fact that no one thought that it could ever get this far, ever, in 200+ years is what baffles me.  The rest of the country is basically sane...  The system itself is fine.  

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On 2/15/2021 at 5:03 AM, Steam Flyer said:

The problem with the Trump Administrations pandemic management is not over centralization, it's stupidity and greed and the arrogant assumption that anything any non-Trumpsucker says/does is both wrong and evil; combined with the determination to milk every possible circumstance for both profit and positive press (even if you have to lie).

Pretty much standard Trump M.O.

And yeah, the states have pretty capable DNA labs at the universities, but they still don't have the lab space or brainpower that the Feds have. No single state could afford a tenth of it.

Voting- yeah there are problems. Those are up to the states. And the bigger problem is that 70 million + USAnians saw 3 1/2 years of Trump and said "Hell yeah, gimme some more of that!"

- DSK

I don't think that's right. There were weird patterns and anomalies in some states and districts where EVM without paper backups were used and surprisingly they were all places where the gop senators won. The findings were buried by the blitz trump unleashed but nonetheless they raise "interesting questions".

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16 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

I don't think that's right. There were weird patterns and anomalies in some states and districts where EVM without paper backups were used and surprisingly they were all places where the gop senators won. The findings were buried by the blitz trump unleashed but nonetheless they raise "interesting questions".

That's what Projection is all about. They accuse others of what they are doing because...doesn't everyone do it?

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6 minutes ago, Ishmael said:
23 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

I don't think that's right. There were weird patterns and anomalies in some states and districts where EVM without paper backups were used and surprisingly they were all places where the gop senators won. The findings were buried by the blitz trump unleashed but nonetheless they raise "interesting questions".

That's what Projection is all about. They accuse others of what they are doing because...doesn't everyone do it?

Goes both ways.

So far, everything I've read about possible rigged voting in red counties would be "well-structured speculation" at best. Real evidence is very thin to chimerical.

I tell the righties, "election fraud is a very serious crime, be careful making accusations" which of course they don't heed because people they don't like are all assumed guilty... it's how they roll. If you want to maintain status as The Good Guys you must always maintain higher standards. Always. Even when it's difficult or uncomfortable....

- DSK

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1 hour ago, VhmSays said:

I don't think that's right. There were weird patterns and anomalies in some states and districts where EVM without paper backups were used and surprisingly they were all places where the gop senators won. The findings were buried by the blitz trump unleashed but nonetheless they raise "interesting questions".

That's what I have been saying....  There were anomalies in the GOP races.  As far as I know no one has looked into the deep red state voting machines without paper ballots...  

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3 minutes ago, shaggy said:

That's what I have been saying....  There were anomalies in the GOP races.  As far as I know no one has looked into the deep red state voting machines without paper ballots...  

Which I find very interesting. You'd think someone would look at some of the anomalies that only occur in places with those machines.

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32 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Which I find very interesting. You'd think someone would look at some of the anomalies that only occur in places with those machines.

Next thing you know, we’ll have to look up what ‘Republican projection’ means....

And all those R’s that won office, what’ll they do?  Willingly, that is. ;)

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The only fraudulent votes were votes for democrats, All the republican votes were cast by god fearing christians, who would never cheat on their wives, fuck their nieces, or nephews, or lie to anyone about anything except maybe if they snuck a smoke out behind the outhouse when they were 14, (and yeah, while they were back there, they let cousin Cleatus suck their dick..... But just that one time!)

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Here in Texas we are having power grid problems 

we enjoy cheap power most of the time because there is so little government regulation.

but

insuring facilities will perform during rare weather events costs extra. 
 

so... we have 3,000,000 and counting eith no electricity right now and an ice storm is currently rampaging across central Texas 

 

there are choices and there are consequences 

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On 2/14/2021 at 5:36 PM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

We have a clause in our Australian constitution that basically says that if there is a conflict between a Federal and State law, Federal law overrides. But there are a lot of areas also reserved to the States and for the large part, any attempt to grant more power to the Federal Govt via referendum/amendment fails. We don't trust the Federal Govt that far.

Yes what you propose is more efficient - MAYBE. The current EU isn't a great exemplar. However, efficiency isn't everything when it comes to command and control in civilian power structures. The ability to white-ant or outright defy bad top-down decisions is more important IMO.

So overall I'd disagree with you and vote against any such proposal.

FKT

The idea here seems to be: power corrupts, so let's concentrate more of it in one place and eliminate counterweights because that would be efficient.

Yeah, if you want more efficient corruption, I suppose that's true. But I tend to agree with you that efficiency isn't everything, nor always a desirable thing.

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On 2/14/2021 at 3:04 PM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

What you propose is going to work out quite badly for regions, same as a State dominated by a single big city takes no notice of the regions.

That's a fair point.

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On 2/14/2021 at 3:08 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Can the federal gov't tell the states to have mandatory mask-wearing in public? I don't know, but given a population of at least slightly rational adults, it shouldn't be necessary. Can the federal gov't give the best available scientific info to the states, and a list of advisory policies that will help limit contagion? Absolutely.

 

No the feds cannot.  Even Joe admitted that once in office.  The Feds can only mandate that on Federal property and in federally controlled jurisdictions such as airline and train travel, fed buildings, etc.  

As to the population of at least slightly rational adults - I think we have seen the final nail in the coffin to any notion that we have a populace of slightly rational adults and that mandates to force behavior is actually needed to get people to do the right thing.  And that's not a red or blue thing...... people in deep blue states such as CA were absolute fucking idiots in defying mask and distancing mandates resulting in THE highest infection rates in the nation while some red states did pretty well.  And vice versa.  The point being that there are stupid people everywhere and their political affiliation is not always the best indicator of intelligence or common sense. 

And admitting that has been hard for me, because like you - I have always believed in the better nature of humans to do the right thing.  While that certainly does exist, I am finding that it is less and less common than I once thought.

Just saying.

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On 2/14/2021 at 3:08 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Can the federal gov't give the best available scientific info to the states, and a list of advisory policies that will help limit contagion? Absolutely.

Yeah, and how did that work out?

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On 2/14/2021 at 3:19 PM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Fundamentally a re-think of what should be done or defined at what level of Govt should be undertaken. Foreign affairs/defence - Feds for sure. Whole of country health monitoring? Feds. Education curriculum? Feds. Service delivery? States or smaller economic/political units.

Yep.  And maybe this is really what I was attempting to get at, but stating it rather poorly.  The issue is there is so much overlap and redundancy of responsibilities between the states and the FedGov that it ends up in a finger pointing contest when something goes tango uniform.  No one knows who's actually in control and who is supposed to do what and when.

I think there needs to be a clearer delineation as to which level of gov't does what, when and how.  

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On 2/17/2021 at 12:50 AM, Gouvernail said:

Here in Texas we are having power grid problems 

insuring facilities will perform during rare weather events costs extra.

I keep hearing about how rare freezing weather is in Texas.

Isn't Texas where the term "Blue Norther" came from?

How rare is freezing weather there?

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18 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

No the feds cannot.  Even Joe admitted that once in office.  The Feds can only mandate that on Federal property and in federally controlled jurisdictions such as airline and train travel, fed buildings, etc.  

As to the population of at least slightly rational adults - I think we have seen the final nail in the coffin to any notion that we have a populace of slightly rational adults and that mandates to force behavior is actually needed to get people to do the right thing.

1) it was never even an issue, the feds don’t have to mandate shit. All they have to do is use the spending power, which is pretty much always constitutional. “The receipt of all covid relief funds specified in this section by any agency, state, tribe, or territory is conditioned on the state’s adoption of a mask mandate  in substantially the following form...said mandate to expire only upon approval of CDC...”

2) half the population has an IQ under 100, which is coincidentally mostly the half preyed on from birth by groups which seek to condition and groom them to believe lies and fantasies for the groups’ own purposes.  As long as people believe the Easter bunny, tooth fairy, Noah’s ark, or Yahweh are real, a fact and logic-based society is gonna have real problems from those believers  

 

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Strong Eva Dense that parliamentary systems are more stable that Prez ones. 

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-last-president-parliamentary/

After WWI the US could have imposed presidential systems on Japan and Germany . . 

But they did not do that . .  Does that make you curious ?? 

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25 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

1) it was never even an issue, the feds don’t have to mandate shit. All they have to do is use the spending power, which is pretty much always constitutional. “The receipt of all covid relief funds specified in this section by any agency, state, tribe, or territory is conditioned on the state’s adoption of a mask mandate  in substantially the following form...said mandate to expire only upon approval of CDC...”

2) half the population has an IQ under 100, which is coincidentally mostly the half preyed on from birth by groups which seek to condition and groom them to believe lies and fantasies for the groups’ own purposes.  As long as people believe the Easter bunny, tooth fairy, Noah’s ark, or Yahweh are real, a fact and logic-based society is gonna have real problems from those believers  

 

I think I remember seeing a documentary back in the 80s sometime where they thought they'd found Noah's Ark on a mountain top in Turkey... And in the archeological dig, they did indeed find the fossilized remains of the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny. (They were both naked)

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27 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I keep hearing about how rare freezing weather is in Texas.

Isn't Texas where the term "Blue Norther" came from?

How rare is freezing weather there?

This particular blast of freezing weather broke every modern weather service record for  both temperature and duration. 
The  state is over 1300 km from its northern to southern tips. At the northern end freezing weather is quite common and lasts for long periods. 
At the  southern tip freezing is a once a decade phenomenon are rarely lasts through the following day. 
In the central part where I live the “record” of 140 hours of continuous sub freezing weather was set by a fluke storm period in the eighties. This year that record was broken. I think we did 144 hours.

I measure some life events in dog lives. The last time we made a snowman Skipper was alive. He died in 2006. 
We had two dogs, Lily 15 years and Waldo 12 years, who never saw snow. Our current dogs Carmen 7 years and Romeo 1 year are enjoying their first week of soft white ground. 
 

The photo of Skipper  snd his snowman was taken mid day after it had snowed from two to three am. He helped make a quick snowman ( he was chewing on the sticks ) and all the rest of the snow was melted by noon. 
This snowman became hairier and hairier as the snow melted snd the grass which was rolled up into the balls became the outer layer. 

C3B7598B-44F3-479B-8BCE-574BC9330E38.jpeg

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1 hour ago, AJ Oliver said:

Strong Eva Dense that parliamentary systems are more stable that Prez ones. 

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-last-president-parliamentary/

After WWI WW 2 the US could have imposed presidential systems on Japan and Germany . . 

But they did not do that . .  Does that make you curious ?? 

FTFY as I assume it was a typo. Or did you actually get your wars mixed up.....

FKT

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

As long as people believe the Easter bunny, tooth fairy, Noah’s ark, or Yahweh are real, a fact and logic-based society is gonna have real problems from those believers  

You don't believe yahweh is real???  I thought you self-ID'd as jewish?  If not then apologies for being mistaken.

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5 hours ago, Burning Man said:
On 2/14/2021 at 6:08 PM, Steam Flyer said:

Can the federal gov't give the best available scientific info to the states, and a list of advisory policies that will help limit contagion? Absolutely.

Yeah, and how did that work out?

How did what work out?

Oh, giving the states advice? Well, before that has any effect you have to take two things into account.... Trumpette governors of some states, and the Trumping of the CDC.

Both had large negative effect.

- DSK

 

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5 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

1) it was never even an issue, the feds don’t have to mandate shit. All they have to do is use the spending power, which is pretty much always constitutional. “The receipt of all covid relief funds specified in this section by any agency, state, tribe, or territory is conditioned on the state’s adoption of a mask mandate  in substantially the following form...said mandate to expire only upon approval of CDC...”

2) half the population has an IQ under 100, which is coincidentally mostly the half preyed on from birth by groups which seek to condition and groom them to believe lies and fantasies for the groups’ own purposes.  As long as people believe the Easter bunny, tooth fairy, Noah’s ark, or Yahweh are real, a fact and logic-based society is gonna have real problems from those believers  

 

First of all, the Feds know everything.  Don't reply because they already know and will use it against you.

Secondly, the Easter Bunny does visit my neighborhood, the tooth fairy is well acquainted with me and Noah's ark was an amazing piece of engineering.  Logic and belief sit right next door to each other.  Facts are mutable.  

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5 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

This particular blast of freezing weather broke every modern weather service record for  both temperature and duration. 
The  state is over 1300 km from its northern to southern tips. At the northern end freezing weather is quite common and lasts for long periods. 
At the  southern tip freezing is a once a decade phenomenon are rarely lasts through the following day. 
In the central part where I live the “record” of 140 hours of continuous sub freezing weather was set by a fluke storm period in the eighties. This year that record was broken. I think we did 144 hours.

I measure some life events in dog lives. The last time we made a snowman Skipper was alive. He died in 2006. 
We had two dogs, Lily 15 years and Waldo 12 years, who never saw snow. Our current dogs Carmen 7 years and Romeo 1 year are enjoying their first week of soft white ground. 
 

The photo of Skipper  snd his snowman was taken mid day after it had snowed from two to three am. He helped make a quick snowman ( he was chewing on the sticks ) and all the rest of the snow was melted by noon. 
This snowman became hairier and hairier as the snow melted snd the grass which was rolled up into the balls became the outer layer. 

C3B7598B-44F3-479B-8BCE-574BC9330E38.jpeg

Where's the carrot? I understand if you needed the coal from his eyes and mouth to keep warm, but......

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8 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

FTFY as I assume it was a typo. Or did you actually get your wars mixed up....

Thanks for the correction  . .   blush ! 

Didja read the article ? I thought it was interesting and provocative. 

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2 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Thanks for the correction  . .   blush ! 

Didja read the article ? I thought it was interesting and provocative. 

Haven't had time - been off sailing for the day. Wind is going to shit so came back home.

Might read it tomorrow. Interesting take though. I'm damn sure a number of our ex-Prime Ministers would have been utterly delighted that they couldn't be tossed out early though.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Haven't had time - been off sailing for the day. Wind is going to shit so came back home.

Might read it tomorrow. Interesting take though. I'm damn sure a number of our ex-Prime Ministers would have been utterly delighted that they couldn't be tossed out early though.

FKT

Hey, is Scotty who hasn't been beamed up yet the longest serving PM since J Winston H?

That simply stuns me.

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8 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Where's the carrot? I understand if you needed the coal from his eyes and mouth to keep warm, but......

The carrot and black rocks are on the face... which faces the street. 
I didn’t have any coal .... which was a lifetime snowman building  first for me. Every house my parents  ever owned had a coal bin and was built before 1890. 
in fact, I only  currently one one golf ball sized chunk of anthracite which I dug  up in about 1975 in my Mother in Law’s coal mine. 

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On 2/17/2021 at 5:53 AM, Venom said:

When virtue signaling backfires on leftist half-wit.:(

Boo-hoo, and then the tears begin to fall and he starts pissing herself.

UCMTSU!! :D

b4eg4.jpg

Leftist half wit?

Losses the first?

Oh dear.

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20 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Strong Eva Dense that parliamentary systems are more stable that Prez ones. 

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/biden-last-president-parliamentary/

Here is a teaser quote from the article, 

Alfred Stepan and Cindy Skach’s exhaustive study of emerging democracies, conducted from 1979 through 1989, found that parliamentary systems were three times more likely to succeed than presidential ones, which were more than twice as susceptible to a military coup, at a rate of 40 percent.

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15 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Here is a teaser quote from the article, 

Alfred Stepan and Cindy Skach’s exhaustive study of emerging democracies, conducted from 1979 through 1989, found that parliamentary systems were three times more likely to succeed than presidential ones, which were more than twice as susceptible to a military coup, at a rate of 40 percent.

And how well would a parliamentary system work with heavily gerrymandered House districts? Didn't read the article.

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5 hours ago, Shortforbob said:
On 2/16/2021 at 10:53 AM, Venom said:

When virtue signaling backfires on leftist half-wit.:(

Boo-hoo, and then the tears begin to fall and he starts pissing herself.

UCMTSU!! :D

b4eg4.jpg

Leftist half wit?

Losses the first?

Oh dear.

Sometimes I worry that I will miss some speck of intelligence by having these nitwits on ignore. Then I see something like this. Holy shit he's stupid.

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17 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

How did what work out?

Oh, giving the states advice? Well, before that has any effect you have to take two things into account.... Trumpette governors of some states, and the Trumping of the CDC.

Both had large negative effect.

- DSK

 

Then why do blue states with populations that obviously are well above average in intelligence, are fully informed, and whose governors and their constituents religiously followed the science - like CA and NY - had and still have some of the highest infections rates in the country a year later?

oh wait, I forgot something in the above para....  

Then why do blue states with populations that obviously are well above average in intelligence, are fully informed, and whose governors and their constituents religiously followed the science - like CA and NY - had and still have some of the highest infections rates in the country a year later?

There, that's more correct now.  The BL is that I'm more and more convinced that idiots are roaming the earth in ever greater numbers and relying on them to "do the right thing" is a fool's game.  Leading those thirsty horses(asses) to water will result in little more than a bunch of dumb animals all standing around looking at the water wondering what to do next. 

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9 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

been off sailing for the day. Wind is going to shit so came back home.

You can have some our ours.... it's been blowing dogs off of chains all week with no end in sight.  Yesterday we had 25 Gust 40kts.  

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1 minute ago, Burning Man said:

You can have some our ours.... it's been blowing dogs off of chains all week with no end in sight.  Yesterday we had 25 Gust 40kts.  

Our winter so far has been exceedingly windy. 30 gusting 50 has been a fairly normal occurrence.

489364848_Screenshot_2021-02-21JuandeFucaStrait-eastentrance-GeorgiaBasin-EnvironmentCanada.thumb.png.52d79b9e40efbcbd9c9615744970c21d.png

 

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We received over a foot of snow last week - then major cold temps, like Texas . .  

Except we have a power grid that, while at least as corrupt as the Lone Star State, 

is at least winterized. 

(Speaking of sailing . . ) 

LRPP put the final beat-down on Perfidious Albion last night . . 

too bad it was not closer. 

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

...   ...  The BL is that I'm more and more convinced that idiots are roaming the earth in ever greater numbers and relying on them to "do the right thing" is a fool's game.  Leading those thirsty horses(asses) to water will result in little more than a bunch of dumb animals all standing around looking at the water wondering what to do next. 

I'm totally stealing that!

- DSK

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23 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I'm totally stealing that!

- DSK

You can lead a horse to water, but if you can it go do the backstroke you have really accomplished something.

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3 hours ago, Burning Man said:

There, that's more correct now.  The BL is that I'm more and more convinced that idiots are roaming the earth in ever greater numbers and relying on them to "do the right thing" is a fool's game.  Leading those thirsty horses(asses) to water will result in little more than a bunch of dumb animals all standing around looking at the water wondering what to do next. 

Most of them would piss in it and then complain about how nobody provided them with decent water...

FKT

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9 hours ago, learningJ24 said:

And how well would a parliamentary system work with heavily gerrymandered House districts? Didn't read the article.

There usually are left overs from the "rotten buroughs" acts hanging around parliamentary democracies that have some effect on gerrymandering.  Definitely not perfect, but do have an influence.

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On 2/20/2021 at 6:04 PM, Burning Man said:

You don't believe yahweh is real???  I thought you self-ID'd as jewish?  If not then apologies for being mistaken.

That’s ok, but the apology should probably be for assuming that being Jewish means believing in a deity.Judaism is an ethnicity for all Jews (except converts) but a religion only to the 80-ish percent of Jews who believe in fairy tales. 

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