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Impact of Stack Pack/Lazy Bag?


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Flaking the main with my GF while inside a relatively small basin when two handed is quite the pain and results in less than stellar flake. How much performance loss would there be with one of these  bags on the boom?

7746736_20210207082652887_1_XLARGE.jpg?t=1612713971000&w=900&h=900

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We had one on the trimaran, it had a batten on the closure end, we would roll it up and it had little straps to hold in place, rolled up pretty tight so it wasn’t perfect, but I don’t think impacted performance much

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1 hour ago, danstanford said:

Flaking the main with my GF while inside a relatively small basin when two handed is quite the pain and results in less than stellar flake. How much performance loss would there be with one of these  bags on the boom?

7746736_20210207082652887_1_XLARGE.jpg?t=1612713971000&w=900&h=900

The lazy jack windage and stack pack don’t do you any favors 

you might google pictures Class 40 and check out racing lazy jacks 

that Green Owen Clark 40 has a nice setup 

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All the top flight shorthanded boats have lazy jacks with capture flap systems that get left mostly

free during racing. Sure, probably not as fast but makes it possible to reef/unreef quickly with those

huge full batten mains. If you build them from dyneems with soft shackles and low friction rings

they can be adjusted easily by hand so they don't flop around much at all. We've got 20,000 miles

on our home built version with no issues and my wife and 15 yr old daughter can deal with our

main with a 50 foot hoist by themselves in those middle of the night watches... ease the halyard

and the main drops onto the boom all by itself, every time. Back up just takes grinding the halyard.

If it really slowed folks down then these folks wouldn't have them. Just don't expect to win one-design

crewed races with your bags flapping...

Class40.jpg

Imoca60.jpg

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Whoever designed the stack pack on that J99 must have drawn it with a ruler! Our stack packs a shaped to fit the sail and with the lazy jacks let off they can be rolled up and clipped leaving very little excess windage

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50 minutes ago, Snowden said:

just pop two reefs in (one deep flake each side) and roll the top from the head down. no need for stack pack on a boat that size

Please elaborate. Are you suggesting we use the reefing lines to help? I do not understand the roll point either. 

Hopefully I am not being stupid....

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28 minutes ago, danstanford said:

Please elaborate. Are you suggesting we use the reefing lines to help? I do not understand the roll point either. 

Hopefully I am not being stupid....

Not stupid! I have found with my bolt rope main that the easiest way to put it away solo / 2H is the following:

  1. lower main halyard to first reefing point, clip it at the tack and take up on the first reefing line
  2. lower main halyard to second reef point, making sure the flake of sail comes down on the other side to where the sail is flaked from your first reef
  3. clip in second reefing point and take up on second reefing line
  4. you now have a significant amount of the sail under control
  5. pull down on the luff until you get to the head of the main, take the head out of the track
  6. unclip the halyard from the head and start rolling along the luff from the head
  7. get some sail ties on

If it's really really blowing you can leave the head in the track and start rolling it "doubled" from the midpoint of the luff between the head and the second reef point.

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1 hour ago, danstanford said:

Please elaborate. Are you suggesting we use the reefing lines to help? I do not understand the roll point either. 

Hopefully I am not being stupid....

Sure , Tug on the leech reef line as the main comes Down

it pulls the main aft on the boom , promotes a natural fold and keep things under control 

you must still  mess around with the stack 

On  some boats you can do it singlehanded 

 

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Guys, I will give this a try. I only have the first reef rigged but that will get me started for sure. My main has slugs in a track and some of them are the bearing type so they all stay connected as she falls other than the very top one which disconnects due to the angled batten for the square head main so rolling won't work. 

I will try this for sure! 

Dan

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I like the reef trick. But how can I convince the wife that the lovely sail cover she made she get binned and we should build a stacker? I think ill give it a couple years...

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2 hours ago, danstanford said:

My main has slugs in a track and some of them are the bearing type so they all stay connected as she falls other than the very top one which disconnects due to the angled batten for the square head main so rolling won't work. 

Ah fair enough, rolling is a challenge with slugs! Having said that, though, if you have slugs then you can just get webbing lazy jacks with no need for a bag.

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We had a J/105 at our club that took a few years off from racing and used a stack pack with a cruising main.   They day sailed it as a couple.   The owner and his wife could unzip and hoist very quickly, and drop the sail in zip it back in the pack in no time.  It made for a very easy boat to head out on the water for an hour or two with minimal fussing about.   If you aren't racing, and don't mind the expense, they seem like a pretty nice way to go.

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54 minutes ago, Champlain Sailor said:

We had a J/105 at our club that took a few years off from racing and used a stack pack with a cruising main.   They day sailed it as a couple.   The owner and his wife could unzip and hoist very quickly, and drop the sail in zip it back in the pack in no time.  It made for a very easy boat to head out on the water for an hour or two with minimal fussing about.   If you aren't racing, and don't mind the expense, they seem like a pretty nice way to go.

This is exactly my dilemna. I am coming from a furling main and a jib with a UV cover which took no time to get out and going especially if you had guests. Now I am racing this new boat which means lots more work going out and coming in and I am trying to soften some of the noise about how much work it really is....from the race Guys too! 

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I fully understand.  We have a J/110 that we cruised a fair amount when we bought it 12 years ago.  As the kids got older it was cruised less and raced more.   We installed a tides track and slides when we bought the boat, and put up lazy jacks shortly afterward.  That likely saved our marriage.   As we began to race more, I'd get crap from competitors and my guest crew about the lazy jacks.   But for most of the racing we do (beer can Wednesday nights) the races are won and lost on the starts, mark roundings, and who can find the wind.  The wind resistance of the lazy jacks isn't going to cost me a race.   When we do a distance race, I'll pull the jacks forward so they are flush to the mast.   

This past summer with social distancing requirements, we cancelled our normal racing program.  We left the cruising genoa on the boat all the time.   My wife and I would race the boat in cruising mode with our son, occasionally adding another person who we knew well and trusted.  We used the boat a lot more this summer, because going out for the weekend didn't mean a huge sail changeover.   So I get it.   Racing is great, but it limits your enjoyment of the boat when you are not racing.  

I'm not sure how badly the stack pack would impact your aerodynamics when racing.   If the pack was cut well and you have a way of keeping it tight to the bottom of the sail, I don't think you would notice much loss, particularly if you are in a beer can PHRF league.  If you are in a competitive one design fleet, then it will hurt you.

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We have a stack pack on our J/46. It’s wonderful for short handed sailing. It can be rolled to the boom and the jacks pulled forward when needed to reduce chafe and windage. It’s also not hard to remove if you want to go seriously racing.

 

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Hey Dan, I have lazy jacks minus the stack pack. When racing I can un-cleat one end and bring the lazy jacks forward and out of the way so they're not catching on anything (see attached photo, the lines on the boom running forward). When it's time to drop, the lazy jacks get tightened back up to a point that's marked and I can let the main free fall. It's not the prettiest, but it will sit there on the boom under control to be flaked/cleaned up later. Not as easy as a stack pack, but I've done it solo no problem, and no performance loss for racing.

You could also look into Dutchman flaking. My dad has it on his boat and it's incredible. Just drop the halyard and it flakes itself. North Sails didn't want me doing it on their precious 3Di, but I can't imagine it adds much windage, we certainly don't notice any speed difference. That being said it's used on a 70s C&C design where the main isn't providing most of the power.

49D1E1EF-06BC-462D-B097-2349CFAC8D3C-79D852CD-9B36-42DA-9405-85B2176F5C91.JPG

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We race with ours on 95% of the time.  You just roll it up with velcro straps, and really isn’t in the way at all. 
 

I’ll take it off for the offshore racing this summer, but for anything shorthanded, it’s pretty great to just drop it into pack and zip up.

Here’s a decent picture from last year.

B12BD9F9-0CAE-4E9B-A86A-AB6251F077C2.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Salona said:

We race with ours on 95% of the time.  You just roll it up with velcro straps, and really isn’t in the way at all. 
’ll take it off for the offshore racing this summer, but for anything shorthanded, it’s pretty great to just drop it into pack and zip up.Here’s a decent picture from last year.

Who made your Stack Pack

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1 hour ago, glass said:

Who made your Stack Pack

It came with the boat, from Salona. So far I’ve replaced the zipper and swapped the lines for smaller uncovered dynema but otherwise it’s about 4 yrs old and in good shape. It looks pretty similar to the one I’ve seen on a local X-yacht.

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  • 2 months later...
8 hours ago, Quickstep192 said:

Dan, I'm wondering what you ended up doing. 

Boat is still on the hard pending the province opening up the current restrictions. Probably not going to do anything at this point until/unless I buy a new boat.

 

Dan

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