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AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


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I guess it is time we had a thread dedicated for the Match.

Especially now with the three day covid lockdown there is a distinct possibility that the Prada Cup will go by default to LR if the race committee run out of time by next Tuesday. 

INEOS have dropped right out of the NZ Tab market and the evens money has long gone for ETNZ. 

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1 hour ago, Enzedel92 said:

Prada going to kick the shit out of the Kiwis.  LR battle hardened.  ETNZ not so much.

Not sure it’s been that much of a battle so far.  More like a training run for the handbags.

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1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

Still very happy with even money on ETNZ. 

Yup.

Regardless of who progesses to the match, ETNZ will take a jumbo jar of lube out and shove it sideways up their arses.

I'm sorry but the challengers just aren't demonstrating anything that makes me think any differently.

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4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Yup.

Regardless of who progesses to the match, ETNZ will take a jumbo jar of lube out and shove it sideways up their arses.

I'm sorry but the challengers just aren't demonstrating anything that makes me think any differently.

I fear you're right.

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10 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I fear you're right.

Although it is looking like Luna Rossa will progress to the match, I have to say that today's racing demonstrated that we are currently seeing two very evenly matched boats.

INEOS could still come back, but they will need to sail their boat a lot better than they currently are.

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44 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

I see challengers all reasonably similar. Seems unlikely they are all superior to ETNZ. So at worst for us kiwis they are similar speed. At best, ETNZ will down trou them

Remember ETNZ have moved to a new set of foils since before Xmas. It's going to be a bloodbath IMO.

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38 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

they were battle hardened here too

 

and this time....

maxresdefault.jpg

Oh wait. hold on

 

Having said that my money is on ETNZ.

Having said that... we saw today that the slower boat can win if sailed better (every time I glanced at the speeds LR was going quicker).

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The whole legal shenanigans with the Prada cup final made me wonder: What would happen if, hypothetically (and I certainly hope not), Auckland goes into Level 3 lockdown before the AC matches begin on March 6th, and this protracts beyond March 21st?

a) the racing is postponed indefinitely until lockdown level 2 is reinstated

b) the deadline of the 21st of march is reached but with the boats still on the 0-0 the cup would be awarded.. to who? Would it be ETNZ since they won the last match against both Ineos and LR in the ACWS?

c) something else?

Also who would be in charge of making the decision and proper amendment to the rules? Just ACE? ACE + CoR? ACE + ETNZ? ...

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I've heard from a very REASONABLE source that if the Cup match isn't awarded by the end of the match period it will be decided by a vote of SAAC members! :P

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1 hour ago, AeroSail1 said:

The whole legal shenanigans with the Prada cup final made me wonder: What would happen if, hypothetically (and I certainly hope not), Auckland goes into Level 3 lockdown before the AC matches begin on March 6th, and this protracts beyond March 21st?

a) the racing is postponed indefinitely until lockdown level 2 is reinstated

b) the deadline of the 21st of march is reached but with the boats still on the 0-0 the cup would be awarded.. to who? Would it be ETNZ since they won the last match against both Ineos and LR in the ACWS?

c) something else?

Also who would be in charge of making the decision and proper amendment to the rules? Just ACE? ACE + CoR? ACE + ETNZ? ...

I think there is already provision for racing under Level 3. 

If the Match can't be sailed I guess it stays with the Defender. 

If it is partially completed does it go to who is leading at the time (as in the Prada Cup rules) or is there a requirement for a minimum number of races to be completed to get a result?

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7 hours ago, Forourselves said:

they were battle hardened here too

 

Meh.... totally different boats.  In the foiling era the defenders get their teeth kicked in every time. I don’t suspect this time to be any different.  All about on the water time and confidence.  NZL loses the first few races it can quickly spiral out of control.  Remember there are no second chances for the defender like there are with the challengers, RR Prada semi, Prada final, etc.

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If match cannot be completed and stays with Defender, I am sure an already drafted DoG challenge will be made. But whose gets there first...Ineos, LRPP, or Ernesto? 

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11 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

If match cannot be completed and stays with Defender, I am sure an already drafted DoG challenge will be made. But whose gets there first...Ineos, LRPP, or Ernesto? 

Why a DoG challenge? The three possible challengers are as interested as ETNZ to make the AC a money making machine. Something that is even harder to achieve with a DoG challenge.

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A pissed off multi billionaire proposing to hold the event somewhere in a good time zone, convenient to get to, what's not to like?  Breaking even or running a surplus might be more feasible for one main event without the circus circuit ACWS, challenger selection, etc. Those are all money losers. 

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If there is no racing before time limit expires then either Kiwis keep the cup without having been challenged or the CoR and Defender agree to new terms.

My 2 cents is that they will agree to new terms.

Since Kiwis have spent $100m + on their effort, they really want to race. They dont want to wait for another challenge in a couple of years time. They want the economic payback from AC

Since challenger of record is LR and likely they will be in the final they will want to agree to a postponed match.

In other words...if there is a lockdown, the challenger and defender will keep their bases running and agree to new match dates at first available opportunity.

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2 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Why a DoG challenge? The three possible challengers are as interested as ETNZ to make the AC a money making machine. Something that is even harder to achieve with a DoG challenge.

Difficult one. If there is no Match raced then LR would surely still be the COR and RNZYS would retain the Cup.

Unless RNZYS very quickly offer new dates and class with a new protocol they could possibly be open to a DOG challenge, but with LR still COR I can't see how this might be allowed by the NYSC.

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9 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

If there is no Match raced ... 

This scenario gets very problematic for RNZYS, by a careful reading of the DoG...

Could be a fun deep-dive but it’s very unlikely to happen. 

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I bite. The DoG says:
"And when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided."

Question: Has the event been decided? Answer: No (as there is no decision).

So, according to the Deed they have to sail until this challenge is decided. But of course, there's the protocol as well. And this contract could be subject to legal challenges.

Andy other points of view?

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7 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

I bite. The DoG says:
"And when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided."

Question: Has the event been decided? Answer: No (as there is no decision).

So, according to the Deed they have to sail until this challenge is decided. But of course, there's the protocol as well. And this contract could be subject to legal challenges.

Andy other points of view?

As long as the failure to "decide" the event was not due to actions by either side but from external events like a Covid pandemic, then I guess it would just roll into the planning of a new event. If however it was a deliberate attempt to sabotage by either side then I presume the DOG would take over with first arbitration and then the NY Supreme Court if not resolved. 

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35 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

As long as the failure to "decide" the event was not due to actions by either side but from external events like a Covid pandemic, then I guess it would just roll into the planning of a new event. If however it was a deliberate attempt to sabotage by either side then I presume the DOG would take over with first arbitration and then the NY Supreme Court if not resolved. 

Tina for instance could sabotage the Match by refusing to let IM have the umpire and marshall boats supplied by ACE (paid for by Prada!).

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5 hours ago, Enzedel92 said:

Meh.... totally different boats.  In the foiling era the defenders get their teeth kicked in every time. I don’t suspect this time to be any different.  All about on the water time and confidence.  NZL loses the first few races it can quickly spiral out of control.  Remember there are no second chances for the defender like there are with the challengers, RR Prada semi, Prada final, etc.

There has been only 2 events in the foiling era. The Defender won one, and the Challenger the other, so its 1-1 so far.

As for second chances, that goes for the Challenger as well.

As we saw in 2000, LR doesn't have a great track record against a much faster boat. In fact in the only other event that they contested the Cup, the wheels fell off in the second race of the 2000 event.

 

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

I bite. The DoG says:
"And when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided."

Question: Has the event been decided? Answer: No (as there is no decision).

So, according to the Deed they have to sail until this challenge is decided. But of course, there's the protocol as well. And this contract could be subject to legal challenges.

Andy other points of view?

The original Challenge will have had the Match date on it (the MC’d Protocol too) and so if for any reason the Defender failed to Defend that Challenge as beholden to as Trustee, well then what? 

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9 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

The original Challenge will have had the Match date on it (the MC’d Protocol too) and so if for any reason the Defender failed to Defend that Challenge as beholden to as Trustee, well then what? 

I haven't seen the challenge document, so cannot comment on its content.
The protocol is a contract that can be handled in front of a court, indeed. But it has no effect on the trustee obligations. Those are laid down in the Deed, and the Deed does not care about the specifics of the protocol. The Deed just says that the pending challenge needs to be decided before another one can be lodged. It is not specific about the duration of the current challenge.

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Anyone know if the Americas cup match with be 2 races a day? I saw it was first to 7 wins...

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11 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Perpetual... ahem... :)

The protocol clearly states if the match is not decided by 21st March, the racing continues on a daily basis until the match is decided. 
 

so not that complex. 

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20 minutes ago, JJD said:

The protocol clearly states if the match is not decided by 21st March, the racing continues on a daily basis until the match is decided. 
 

so not that complex. 

That's the way I read it too. 

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13 hours ago, winchfodder said:

As long as the failure to "decide" the event was not due to actions by either side but from external events like a Covid pandemic, then I guess it would just roll into the planning of a new event. If however it was a deliberate attempt to sabotage by either side then I presume the DOG would take over with first arbitration and then the NY Supreme Court if not resolved. 

Tina for instance could sabotage the Match by refusing to let IM have the umpire and marshall boats supplied by ACE (paid for by Prada!).

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Not sure which Match thread we are following. I see sailby has added a new one.

Shall we all agree which one we are following and close the other to avoid confusion and duplication. 

And whilst we are here for the moment do we think the frackers will be helping LR or ETNZ in lead up to March 6th?

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3 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Not sure which Match thread we are following. I see sailby has added a new one.

Shall we all agree which one we are following and close the other to avoid confusion and duplication. 

And whilst we are here for the moment do we think the frackers will be helping LR or ETNZ in lead up to March 6th?

Got a couple of weeks to sort the thread issue out Basher Ben was pretty adamant that the Handbags are on their own slapping away Max's offer to come play. 

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16 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Got a couple of weeks to sort the thread issue out Basher Ben was pretty adamant that the Handbags are on their own slapping away Max's offer to come play. 

Not very AC PC for the early eliminated challenger not helping the challenger through to the Match. I guess AM are all packed up so no use to LR either. 

Also not very fair that ETNZ were on the race course today doing laps before and after the Prada Cup racing.

They now have all the data to compare with LR data in the same wind, wave and tide conditions. Their data is not available to LR. I guess that is the privilege and benefit of being the Cup holder. 

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13 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The original Challenge will have had the Match date on it (the MC’d Protocol too) and so if for any reason the Defender failed to Defend that Challenge as beholden to as Trustee, well then what? 

The law in most places recognises the concept of force majeure. Don't know about NY.

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40 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Got a couple of weeks to sort the thread issue out Basher Ben was pretty adamant that the Handbags are on their own slapping away Max's offer to come play. 

Ben clearly doesn’t like the handbags....might be due to LR using every legal trick in the book. 

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1 hour ago, mako23 said:

Ben clearly doesn’t like the handbags....might be due to LR using every legal trick in the book. 

What about Ben's last minute protest about the handy work around the jib winch by the handbags. Seemed a bit unnecessary, even desperate. 

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1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

Not very AC PC for the early eliminated challenger not helping the challenger through to the Match. I guess AM are all packed up so no use to LR either. 

Also not very fair that ETNZ were on the race course today doing laps before and after the Prada Cup racing.

They now have all the data to compare with LR data in the same wind, wave and tide conditions. Their data is not available to LR. I guess that is the privilege and benefit of being the Cup holder. 

Yes Ben sounded miffed at the suggestion. I was surprised ETNZ allowed on course. Must be in the protocol. I guess they have to run tests on all the connectivity. They're plugged in to race course data and media, last chance before the match maybe. 

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1 hour ago, mako23 said:

Ben clearly doesn’t like the handbags....might be due to LR using every legal trick in the book. 

Of course. Everybody knows that playing by the rules is now called "using every legal trick in the book"

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11 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Of course. Everybody knows that playing by the rules is now called "using every legal trick in the book"

No, it's not having honor and respect

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I heard that they are going to use LR B1 upgraded for the AC Match and that it's something revolutionary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok I was joking :D :D

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2 hours ago, minimumfuss said:

Yes Ben sounded miffed at the suggestion. I was surprised ETNZ allowed on course. Must be in the protocol. I guess they have to run tests on all the connectivity. They're plugged in to race course data and media, last chance before the match maybe. 

ETNZ will have very accurate data now how they would go against the Italians. They no doubt sailed to the same track of LR on race 5 or six, tack by tack, mark roundings and gybe by gybe to the finish. They will be able to check VMG, tacking angles ect and know exactly where they stand.

I would have hoped that the Protocol would have prevented this (one to remember for the COR challengers to write into the rules next time around). Though I guess pretty hard to police.

P.S.  The "original" AC36 Match thread. Though not sure of the forum protocol! 

 

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9 hours ago, strider470 said:

No, it's not having honor and respect

Congratulations strider470 I hope you are enjoying the success your team deservingly earned. They were the better  boat and team and rightly won their  spot in the AC final. 

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13 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Congratulations strider470 I hope you are enjoying the success your team deservingly earned. They were the better  boat and team and rightly won their  spot in the AC final. 

Thanks mate, apart from severe sleep deprivation I'm really really happy! :D Now we will try our best to be strong opponents for NZ.

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12 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Shall we all agree which one we are following and close the other to avoid confusion and duplication. 

No.

The more confusion and duplicity the better.

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8 hours ago, winchfodder said:

ETNZ will have very accurate data now how they would go against the Italians. They no doubt sailed to the same track of LR on race 5 or six, tack by tack, mark roundings and gybe by gybe to the finish. They will be able to check VMG, tacking angles ect and know exactly where they stand.

I would have hoped that the Protocol would have prevented this (one to remember for the COR challengers to write into the rules next time around). Though I guess pretty hard to police.

P.S.  The "original" AC36 Match thread. Though not sure of the forum protocol! 

 

I know this is not quite as data rich, but I have to assume that there was an LRPP chase boat running with ETNZ for all of their recon sails. Yes, ETNZ could sandbag, though I would think they would at least part of the time want test their best speed against LR telemetry. Summary: I'd be shocked if LR doesn't have a good sense of what they are up against, what the expected delta looks like.

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19 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Facite ammuina

Strider, you've done a splendid job of, almost single handedly, resisting the Anglo-Saxon barbarians of SAAC and seeing off the Yanks and Brits.

Get some sleep! You'll need all your strength to combat the Kiwi hordes. :o

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1 minute ago, marlowe said:

Strider, you've done a splendid job of, almost single handedly, resisting the Anglo-Saxon barbarians of SAAC and seeing off the Yanks and Brits.

Get some sleep! You'll need all your strength to combat the Kiwi hordes. :o

ahahahaha you're right

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Looking at my own expectations and the consensus of various threads here, I think the most surprising outcome of the series would be a close fight. I hope I'm wrong, but examining that hope closely makes me feel like a complete eedjit - a competition built on big development budgets coupled with minimal pre-match contact between the challenger and defender seems like a formula purpose-built to produce blowout series. We really shouldn't expect anything else/different/better UNTIL the quality of entertainment assumes a larger importance in the whole show. 

I think most agree that having a real bleeding-edge competition pushing the boundaries on what is possible in sailing is a good thing. F1 has been used as an analogue, and though there are similarities, the differences are vast. Formula 1: Many teams, YEARLY iteration with lots and lots of races to measure your progress against others. AC: Well, just about the inverse of all of that.

I guess this leaves us all making private decisions to what degree it makes sense to pay attention/care about this competition. The dumbest this to care is for the visibility of the sport on the back of AC outside of the host harbor footprint and the ripples in the challenger country doing well. Just go and see where in your favorite non-sailing newspaper/online news outlet Prada cup reporting ranks. Hard to find, no?

So what do we as a community want here, since we can't have both - good close racing or the sight of two wicked-fast, mind-bending boats sailing in increasingly loose formation on the same six square miles of the ocean? 

 

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I hope that BOTH sides can resist petty squabbles and rancour during the AC match. The squabble from last Wednesday did no one any favours. Let’s leave the competition to the boats and not the lawyers 

Not likely to happen :( but one can dream 

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14 minutes ago, marlowe said:

Strider, you've done a splendid job of, almost single handedly, resisting the Anglo-Saxon barbarians of SAAC and seeing off the Yanks and Brits.

Get some sleep! You'll need all your strength to combat the Kiwi hordes. :o

Diplomacy is not a kiwi attribute, the poor guy is going to need thick skin 

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28 minutes ago, Physalia said:

Summary: I'd be shocked if LR doesn't have a good sense of what they are up against, what the expected delta looks like.

The richness of the data streams nowadays is a goldmine, ETNZ will know to a high degree of certainty how well LR performed. And as @erdb has demonstrated for us here, ETNZ can also see details as ‘intimate’ to sailing techniques as foil cant settings and movement timings. 
 

There is less reason to ‘get a read’ on your opponent by matching up on the water in these times, than there was in AC32 Valencia. 

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8 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I hope that BOTH sides can resist petty squabbles and rancour during the AC match. The squabble from last Wednesday did no one any favours. Let’s leave the competition to the boats and not the lawyers 

Not likely to happen :( but one can dream 

Agreed, not likely to happen. This about it, if you're winning, you're not going to squabble. If you're losing, likely playing a role is the fact that your boat is slower. Speed can be found in creative reading of the design rules, finding angles that other don't see or that might be blind spots in the rules themselves - in other words gray areas that are part of the global lawyer employment scheme... Best, and unlikeliest scenario are two evenly matched boats where the racing does the talking. 

Are you still dreaming ;-) ?

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

The richness of the data streams nowadays is a goldmine, ETNZ will know to a high degree of certainty how well LR performed. And as @erdb has demonstrated for us here, ETNZ can also see details as ‘intimate’ to sailing techniques as foil cant settings and movement timings. 
 

There is less reason to ‘get a read’ on your opponent by matching up on the water in these times, than there was in AC32 Valencia. 

Oh absolutely. Watching the last race with my wife, she was shocked to find out the degree to which the on-board tactical software plays a role in the racing. I'm not so alarmed (plenty still left to skill and experience), but she does have a point. What is the endpoint of deploying big data here? What will AC46 going to look like? One skinny dude (or gal) turning the wheel the way the software instructs them, and four hulking grinders providing 1kW of power each. The AC75 rules spell out to some extent what systems can be automated and what cannot, but I don't have a good sense what is limiting deployment of data integrating tech on board right now.

Just throwing this out there - what will AC46 boats look like, will we recognize the sport as sailing, or will it be a wind-powered speed contest...

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31 minutes ago, Physalia said:

......... I think the most surprising outcome of the series would be a close fight. ..........

But that's no different to most ACs. Historically a close match is very rare.

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6 minutes ago, Physalia said:

Oh absolutely. Watching the last race with my wife, she was shocked to find out the degree to which the on-board tactical software plays a role in the racing. I'm not so alarmed (plenty still left to skill and experience), but she does have a point. What is the endpoint of deploying big data here? What will AC46 going to look like? One skinny dude (or gal) turning the wheel the way the software instructs them, and four hulking grinders providing 1kW of power each. The AC75 rules spell out to some extent what systems can be automated and what cannot, but I don't have a good sense what is limiting deployment of data integrating tech on board right now.

Just throwing this out there - what will AC46 boats look like, will we recognize the sport as sailing, or will it be a wind-powered speed contest...

There are two roads using car racing as an analogy.  F1 is driver focused with a ton of telemetry aiding decision making.  NASCAR is pretty much the opposite with just being driver focused and no telemetry.  I think the decision to allow powered devices takes a measure of the real sailing out of it.  The grinders are essentially tokens, you could just as easily be running a diesel genset and just have two trimmers a helm, flight control and tactician.  If you are going to remove the grinders you may as well get rid of the flight controller too and just have it be a contest of algorithms.

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4 minutes ago, marlowe said:

But that's no different to most ACs. Historically a close match is very rare.

That is part of the point that I'm making - at fault is the deed of gift and the formula of four years of silence, one quick bout. We are in complete agreement that the history of AC is rife with blowouts.

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9 minutes ago, sailman said:

There are two roads using car racing as an analogy.  F1 is driver focused with a ton of telemetry aiding decision making.  NASCAR is pretty much the opposite with just being driver focused and no telemetry.  I think the decision to allow powered devices takes a measure of the real sailing out of it.  The grinders are essentially tokens, you could just as easily be running a diesel genset and just have two trimmers a helm, flight control and tactician.  If you are going to remove the grinders you may as well get rid of the flight controller too and just have it be a contest of algorithms.

The devil is the details - the fabled foil control system Oracle implemented in SF (caveat: no first-hand knowledge, o' wiser ones correct if this is off) was "powered" mechanically by other aspects of the control system. Once foiling becomes completely routine (I know - there are plenty of people to whom it already is, but humor me), at some point someone will look at the flight controller job with an eye of saving a seat on the boat with a little electromechanical trickery. Hard to see how this can be kept either/or in regard to powered devices. Give me a slippery slope and I'll bring a pair of skis!

And now to the real point: F1 or NASCAR ;-)

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18 minutes ago, Physalia said:

That is part of the point that I'm making - at fault is the deed of gift and the formula of four years of silence, one quick bout. We are in complete agreement that the history of AC is rife with blowouts.

There were going to be preliminary regattas..

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32 minutes ago, Physalia said:

Watching the last race with my wife, she was shocked to find out the degree to which the on-board tactical software plays a role in the racing. I'm not so alarmed (plenty still left to skill and experience), but

Easy to say when watching the TV with the painted lines on the water, a bit more difficult in a boat drenched with spray at 40+ kt on a track lined with a spectator fleet.

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14 minutes ago, Physalia said:

That is part of the point that I'm making - at fault is the deed of gift and the formula of four years of silence, one quick bout. We are in complete agreement that the history of AC is rife with blowouts.

And yet it's been going for 150 years. I don't agree that what's needed is an F1 sailing equivalent, or at least that it should be the AC.

 

 

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1 minute ago, barfy said:

Easy to say when watching the TV with the painted lines on the water, a bit more difficult in a boat drenched with spray at 40+ kt on a track lined with a spectator fleet.

 

3 minutes ago, marlowe said:

And yet it's been going for 150 years. I don't agree that what's needed is an F1 sailing equivalent, or at least that it should be the AC.

 

 

Yup, 150 years of competition among a pretty small number of guys with big egos and huge bank accounts. I'm asking the question is there enough here for me to care? 

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9 minutes ago, Physalia said:

 

Yup, 150 years of competition among a pretty small number of guys with big egos and huge bank accounts. I'm asking the question is there enough here for me to care? 

Who cares? Delete your account, watch something else?

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6 minutes ago, Physalia said:

 

Yup, 150 years of competition among a pretty small number of guys with big egos and huge bank accounts. I'm asking the question is there enough here for me to care? 

Only you can answer that.

I've enjoyed this Prada Cup and I'm looking forward to the match even though, as you say, it may well be one sided. There is fascination and drama to the process of an AC which intrigues me. It is what it says - a challenge.

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m2816_Graphic-_-36th-Americas-Cup-racing-calendar_m1659.thumb.jpg.54a9a27937327e49601a63ff281cb46d.jpg

Does anyone know wtf the single asterisk means? It says "Only if racing is needed on Friday to achieve a final result over the weekend", but it's on every race from 8-13.

Obv the asterisks on races 8+ would usually mean they only happen if needed - but then the wording of the explanation makes no sense.

It SOUNDS like they're trying to say they won't race on the 12th if someone's on match point - but then why isn't the asterisk just on the 12th, and why just one of that day's races? 

Is it both? Are they using the asterisk for two different things?

 

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2 hours ago, Physalia said:

So what do we as a community want here, since we can't have both - good close racing or the sight of two wicked-fast, mind-bending boats sailing in increasingly loose formation on the same six square miles of the ocean? 

 

Strangely enough it is hard to see how one could do better than the current series based around the original Deed of Gift.

The nature of the DoG challenge has, I am sure we all agree, created one of the most incredible sailing machines ever conceived, let alone proven on the race track. 

Who wouldn't want to have a sail on an AC75? The way they so very very slowly creep forward with hardly a ripple on the water surface, then a small white wave starts building up on the windward foil strut. All the time the crew waiting in anticipation. Suddenly and imperceptibly a faint whistle can be heard as the hull breaks water, and then in a minute 30 plus knots and the whistle builds to almost a scream. 

The AC75's, certainly the way the teams have learnt to sail them, look relatively stately and docile as the criss cross the Hauraki Gulf at ridiculous speeds. High above the waves there is minimal wake and water on deck. When they pass another yacht like it is standing still you appreciate how fast they are travelling.

Then you realise the G-force through the tacks and gybes as the helms throw the boats around at over 40 knots with minimal loss of VMG and you can understand why the crews are wearing crash helmets and are hanging on tight. 

Next the wind is up to 18 or 20 knots true with the apparent 50 or 60 knots across the deck when a 75ft eight tonne rocket launches up into the air and comes crashing down on its side, puncturing the carbon skin.

Now you can see why the crews are wearing life jackets and emergency oxygen cylinders.

These boats are very hard to sail and require great skill and concentration as well as physical strength and fitness. 

In the cycle of the Cup very different boat designs have evolved. Some more successful than others, 12 metres probably the most enduring, though the current crop of J's are quite magnificent. Let alone the giant 130ft Kiwi K-boat in 1988 or the wing masted 90ft BMW Oracle trimaran in 2010.

Each new AC design, all the way back to 1851, has led to innovation and engineering that has benefitted yachting. 

Sometimes the Cup heads down a route that ends with more teams and closer and closer design options like the 12's and the IAAC's and closer racing. Then it heads off in a completely new direction to catamarans and foiling and monohulls again with foil arms.

It is the open nature of the DoG that allows this. A Formula One GP type of deal could work for a few seasons under a protocol agreement between challengers and defender but before it became stale and commercial the DoG would send it spinning off into space again. 

Yes, the DoG does tend to create one sided races, which get boring but the boats often are not. Then suddenly it finds a way back to really tight and enthralling battles. 

I watched a complete marathon from 2007 Valencia last weekend for light relief when Alinghi won the seventh race on July 3rd by one second with nine lead changes after nearly three hours on the water!. It was totally absorbing at times and kept you on edge, I thoroughly recommend a viewing. It is a very different experience from the 25 minute stadium races of today and I guess few would have the patience not to fast forward to the parts where something was happening. 

The point is that the America's Cup is unique and absorbing, and attracts the billionaires backers with a desire to win it, because it can't be tied down to a simple single formula. 

It is a money contest,  it is a design contest,  it is an engineering contest, it is a sailing contest, it is people contest and even at times a legal contest. 

As Physalia says, you can't really have both close racing and amazing designs at the same time. However just occasionally the two come together for a brief moment and you are glad you were there to experience it live.

In the meantime you just watch and wait for that moment. 

As for me I just can't wait for the first five minutes after the start on the 6th March. I think most agree that we could be heading for another 7-0 one sided series (to the kiwis)!

But I will still be on the front of my seat.  Higher and faster. 

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Some juicy odds (IMO) for ETNZ and probably Luna Rossa as well for that matter currently still on offer. I suspect they haven't caught up with the news that the Prada Cup has been run and won as INEOS are still at $4 to win the Americas Cup.

Sporsbet.jpg

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6 hours ago, Flippin Out said:

Some juicy odds (IMO) for ETNZ and probably Luna Rossa as well for that matter currently still on offer. I suspect they haven't caught up with the news that the Prada Cup has been run and won as INEOS are still at $4 to win the Americas Cup.

Sporsbet.jpg

Where's that book? 

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Ii see 2 seriously possible speedbumps for this race to finish on time.

A)covid outbreak within a team,organisers or country at large

B)a port /starboard tbone collision on the racetrack.

 

Both of this have been avoided so far

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Public pledge: in the light of the unrestrained butthurt being displayed by esteemed British members of this Forum, and considering that objectively LR are underdogs for the Match, the undersigned hereby pledges not to seek excuses or claim that Kiwi conspiracies could influence the outcome - the better team/boat will win, no ifs or buts

 

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4 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Public pledge: in the light of the unrestrained butthurt being displayed by esteemed British members of this Forum, and considering that objectively LR are underdogs for the Match, the undersigned hereby pledges not to seek excuses or claim that Kiwi conspiracies could influence the outcome - the better team/boat will win, no ifs or buts

 

I agree but I'm going a step further! I will not seek excuses even if we win!

Let's hope we are underdogs but not on a dog in the Match :D

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NZ Herald interview with JS after the "demolition job" (their words) on INEOS where Jimmy suggests that he might get some help from Ben and the other challengers. 

""We spoke to the American guys after racing them in the semifinals. I'll definitely be touching base with Ben [Ainslie] and Giles [Scott]. We've got a lot of friends in Ineos Team UK; a lot of guys who worked with Oracle in the last couple of campaigns. We'll be looking for knowledge and ways to grow stronger from here from amongst all the challengers."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/americas-cup-2021-luna-rossa-co-helmsman-jimmy-spithills-surprising-claim-ahead-of-team-new-zealand-showdown/MAG77GNKFZST7SUHFWD2Q3MSKM/

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