Jump to content

AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 7.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

And just to add to that record, Mozzy Sails contacted me direct to ask permission to use my photos and even offered to purchase some, by way of compensation. I am more than happy to contribute an

Just for the record, I contacted @erdb @MaxHugen @doroxand @weta27asked if they were happy me using images or graphs etc. I always try to credit them in the video and in the description as agreed.  I

I want to thank all the amazing people I had the pleasure to meet here on Sailing Anarchy during this America's Cup. It's a huge list. Brits, Irish, Kiwis, fellow Italians, French, Dutch, Americans, C

Posted Images

7 minutes ago, NSP said:

Fuck me, I've looked at these boats thousands of times and have only now just seen what you're talking about -  looks like the beak of a Kiwi.  I always assumed  that ETNZ had a licensing agreement in place to use the Carolina Hurricane's logo :D

Bingo....I think you are right. Thank you. That was very helpful.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/1/2021 at 6:37 PM, porthos said:

I know. It's really shitty drafting. They should never have put a provision relating to the Match in a section dealing with knockout stages. I suspect they wanted to avoid any doubt that the knockout provisions somehow affected the Match (and they do not). Nonetheless, the plain meaning of "There is no final scheduled day in the Match" is exactly what it says, regardless of where it is. 

Not as plain as you might think because the protocol says that when there is conflicting language between the protocol, the conditions and the SIs, the protocol takes preference and the protocol says that match will take place in March.

To make it even more complicated the "conditions" are legally as binding as the protocol and the conditions have that confusing language about the resreve days and racing will continue until the match is complete.

IMHO, they certainly cannot continue beyond March 31 and going beyond March 21 will be tricky unless they sit down and agree what is going to happen,,,,,which would be the sensible thing to do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IPLore said:

Can someone tell me what the "bird" on the NZ sails is meant to represent?  It looks kinda like a red rooster

Yup rooster for now hope it doesn't turn into one of these on Wednesday.

il_570xN.2284275307_df9r.thumb.jpg.80ec99d04c1bac3c2f884afdae1d1c39.jpg

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IPLore said:

Not as plain as you might think because the protocol says that when there is conflicting language between the protocol, the conditions and the SIs, the protocol takes preference and the protocol says that match will take place in March.

To make it even more complicated the "conditions" are legally as binding as the protocol and the conditions have that confusing language about the resreve days and racing will continue until the match is complete.

IMHO, they certainly cannot continue beyond March 31 and going beyond March 21 will be tricky unless they sit down and agree what is going to happen,,,,,which would be the sensible thing to do.

The Match will almost certainly take place in March, so the Protocol will be satisfied.  The Protocol does not say the Match has to end in March.

What you think these provisions mean or what I think they mean is of little value. What matters is what the arbitration panel thinks they mean, because that is where this would end up if there is a disagreement between the Cor/D.  I know that New York courts use a standard set of contractual interpretation rules.  One of those rules is that courts will seek to harmonize all provisions in related agreements so they all have meaning and are not surplusage. Yes, there is a hierarchy of the documents set forth in the Protocol, but a court will look for an interpretation that gives all provisions in all the agreements meaning.  If there is an irreconcilable conflict, then that hierarchy may come in to play, but the ambiguities in these various agreements are not irreconcilable.

The way you harmonize them all is by concluding that the Match has to start in March but does not have a hard end date of March 31.  Otherwise, the RRS provision that the Match has no end date and the Match Conditions that racing will continue until completed are meaningless.  No court would adopt an interpretation that renders those provisions meaningless when there is a way to still give them meaning. I can’t speak to what a New Zealand arbitration panel would do.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, IPLore said:

Can someone tell me what the "bird" on the NZ sails is meant to represent?  It looks kinda like a red rooster

One hears, not completely satisfied with a 2020/2021 Vendee Globe win, Maître Coq has stepped up to AC sponsorship. ;-)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, sfigone said:

Because you don't see Sydney to Hobart boats picking which keel and measurement certificate to use the day before depending on the forecast (trust me some of them do have multiple).    Currently any well prepared campaign has the possibility to win major events, but if the precedent is set of picking major components of the boat depending of the forecast, then only campaigns with huge budgets will win.   If you can swap foils, then why not keels or even hulls?  Perhaps WOXI could have a fat arsed Comanche-like hull sitting in the shed, ready to swap in if the forecast is suitable.

If our sport goes this way, then we will soon get into endless Ship of Theseus debates... hmmm perhaps better than debating if staying isolated from people who may be infected with a virus is or isn't an effective way to avoid catching the virus??? DUH!

Given that they could swap foils and rudders in Bermuda I don't think it's an unreasonable idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Given that they could swap foils and rudders in Bermuda I don't think it's an unreasonable idea.

Reg White back in the '70s, used to turn up in the training trials with a new port hull one week, then another new starboard hull next week, then new cross beam and so forth. Same sail number of course. He cottoned on the fact a millimeter here and there, even on the deck/hull radius made a difference and he could make a decision on the day what to assemble. MInd you 470's weren't that much better where one would turn up with a different builder according to the conditions.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, NSP said:

Fuck me, I've looked at these boats thousands of times and have only now just seen what you're talking about -  looks like the beak of a Kiwi.  I always assumed  that ETNZ had a licensing agreement in place to use the Carolina Hurricanes' logo :D

Yep boredom has set in. I just thought was a finger painting, but when the J1 or 2 is up the circle has a koru, NZs national silver fern symbol, centrally. Maybe swirls reference the inner curls.

I liked Te Aihe best of all the boats with a stylised dolphin on the foil arm origins and hull 

 

Koru_Unfurling.jpeg.jpg

images.jpeg.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, IPLore said:

Rule 16 has not been interpreted differently.  The rule and its interpretation has been in existence for a long time.

I'm not saying differently. Rather the rules are being interpreted precisely and that in itself is enough to change the game. Also it's probably more to do with precisely determining facts found rather than the application of 16.

5 hours ago, IPLore said:

Facts Found:

...

At the time that Ineos reaches HTW, Ineos and LR are not on a collision course. If LR held her course at that moment, LR would have passed astern of Ineos

It is this fact that has been determined precisely that previously would have been a bit more doubtful. In this specifico case perhaps some eyeballs would have called it the same (eg FB said "i don't think so" when JS said they had a piece of them), but others would have called it a penalty.

So it does seem to me that it gives the likes of BA a bit more encouragement to just throw it in there and gamble. Actually BA was always going to tack there... but if it had been closer (and more dangerous) the precision may still have given him encouragement to try it, knowing that he only needs to be 2cm across.

Link to post
Share on other sites

His words and actions suggest previous experience of getting penalties awarded in his favour by continually changing course hunting opponents. This go around seems different.
I don’t think that the umpires data is much better than before, they certainly had similar information last cup. So has the interpretation changed?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, chesirecat said:

 MInd you 470's weren't that much better where one would turn up with a different builder according to the conditions.

Did he have to watch from a chase boat or was he able to stay at the club bar

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 45Roller said:

New head to head from Sail Chaser 

 

For sure the Italian boat is often closer to the cam but the kiwi boat may be sandbagging, but LR seems much faster in this vid.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

For sure the Italian boat is often closer to the cam but the kiwi boat may be sandbagging, but LR seems much faster in this vid.

Unfortunately, these videos don't say anything reliable. There are 1000 variables.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

For sure the Italian boat is often closer to the cam but the kiwi boat may be sandbagging, but LR seems much faster in this vid.

Hard to tell relative speeds but clearly LR is fast and the handling looks impressive. And that's what we want for good racing in the finals, 2 well sailed fast boats.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Unfortunately, these videos don't say anything reliable. There are 1000 variables.

I'm still calling the Match for LR!!!! on the basis of this!

If I'm right, you'll all have to accept that I'm a sailing genius. If I'm wrong, the I'll be gutted anyway so whatever :)

  

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, sfigone said:

I'm still calling the Match for LR!!!! on the basis of this!

If I'm right, you'll all have to accept that I'm a sailing genius. If I'm wrong, the I'll be gutted anyway so whatever :)

  

I'd rather call you genius! :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Rennmaus said:

I see more a Dodo's head:
Dodo.jpg.b2954c3c78a6a2aa1a79b6dbf849faff.jpg

Don't really see it, BUT if that is ANY bird then it is surely Mighty Eagle.

 

image.jpeg.14a9ae7a0db7f95ae7e12a1b074cbaef.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sfigone said:

I'm still calling the Match for LR!!!! on the basis of this!

If I'm right, you'll all have to accept that I'm a sailing genius. If I'm wrong, the I'll be gutted anyway so whatever :)

  

Hope springs eternal, & my mini fridge is well stocked with Italian style pilsner, as I previously stated LR won every race when I had my hand wrapped around a can!

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

I see more a Dodo's head:
Dodo.jpg.b2954c3c78a6a2aa1a79b6dbf849faff.jpg

We've reached new levels of boredom it seems.:P

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah it's a Kiwi! The eye is centred over the mast so they have somewhere to mount the laser.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Ah it's a Kiwi! The eye is centred over the mast so they have somewhere to mount the laser.

Well now you've gone and blown the fucking surprise. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a video a few weeks back before the Prada Cup final where Ineos and LR were coming back in to base side by side seemingly drag racing, and INEOS appeared to smoke LR. Then the racing happened.

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

^^ BTW, now that they can't change their boat I don't know the advantage of sandbagging, except for the settings.

Because a good poker player keeps their cards close to their chest until they put them on the table.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Because a good poker player keeps their cards close to their chest until they put them on the table.

Or up their sleeves?  :D

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

My birthday today, and my lovely sister and her mega cool Kiwi husband got me an awesome AC T-shirt!


Woo-hoo. :P

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MaxHugen said:

My birthday today, and my lovely sister and her mega cool Kiwi husband got me an awesome AC T-shirt!


Woo-hoo. :P

Auguri Max. Buon compleanno!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Auguri Max. Buon compleanno!

Thanks Strider.  Looking forward to a beer or 12 at my favourite pub later today.  :P

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

Happy birthday Max

Thanks mate!

Still amazed that I woke up and was suddenly... old!  :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mad said:

We've reached new levels of boredom it seems.:P

Tried to drag it back with some weather outlooks, but clearly thats the least important part of the americas cup :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

My birthday today, and my lovely sister and her mega cool Kiwi husband got me an awesome AC T-shirt!


Woo-hoo. :P

Happy birthday Max, thanks for all you do on here with your clear and concise explanations, I for one really appreciate it :)

hope you're having a good day, post a picture of the shirt? :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Happy birthday Max, thanks for all you do on here with your clear and concise explanations, I for one really appreciate it :)

hope you're having a good day, post a picture of the shirt? :)

Screenshot_20210304-002458_Photos.thumb.jpg.8397c856c5abf9a30e765527f4fad836.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

My birthday today, and my lovely sister and her mega cool Kiwi husband got me an awesome AC T-shirt!


Woo-hoo. :P

Happy 95th birthday Max! :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Happy birthday Max, thanks for all you do on here with your clear and concise explanations, I for one really appreciate it :)

hope you're having a good day, post a picture of the shirt? :)

Thanks!  As I'm a troglodyte who refuses to get a mobile phone, best I could do is a poor pic from my laptop... just noticed my Gaughan is in it as well. My contribution to boobs for today.  :lol:

WIN_20210304_10_30_50_Pro.thumb.jpg.f78dfec76bf7c46b2b491c68885bf302.jpg

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Happy 95th birthday Max! :lol:

Hahaha... almost.  Cheers Jaysper.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, southseasbill said:

Decent thunderstorm passing over Tamaki Makaurau (Auckland for you plebs) at the moment. Will be interesting if we get this sort of weather for the match.

Exciting Code Zero stuff?   :P

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Thanks!  As I'm a troglodyte who refuses to get a mobile phone, best I could do is a poor pic from my laptop... just noticed my Gaughan is in it as well. My contribution to boobs for today.  :lol:

WIN_20210304_10_30_50_Pro.thumb.jpg.f78dfec76bf7c46b2b491c68885bf302.jpg

:lol::lol::lol: well done

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Thanks!  As I'm a troglodyte who refuses to get a mobile phone, best I could do is a poor pic from my laptop... just noticed my Gaughan is in it as well. My contribution to boobs for today.  :lol:

WIN_20210304_10_30_50_Pro.thumb.jpg.f78dfec76bf7c46b2b491c68885bf302.jpg

Not an ETNZ t-shirt? :P

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Not an ETNZ t-shirt? :P

Probably not so easy to get all that gear in Oz, or not enough time to get one from NZ?

Anyway, the spirit is there.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MaxHugen said:

Probably not so easy to get all that gear in Oz, or not enough time to get one from NZ?

Anyway, the spirit is there.

Good one mate!

Doesn't matter who you support as long as you enjoy the spectacle.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

100 Euro and all I got was a lousy tee shirt.

Crikey mate... that's 27 beers !   (AUD155)   :o

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

100 Euro and all I got was a lousy tee shirt.

R U SERIOUS????

A hundred fucking EURO????

Thats like about 3 Million New Zealand micro pesos!

They had a big sale on ETNZ gear a couple of days ago and T-Shirts were more like 30 or 40 micro pesos.

I'm waiting till post cup for the price to come down cos I am a cheap bastard.

Did the same after San Francisco. Got a hat for 10 micro pesos.

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Probably not so easy to get all that gear in Oz, or not enough time to get one from NZ?

Anyway, the spirit is there.

Just dribble some beetroot juice on it and you will pass for a card carrying Kiwi.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Just dribble some beetroot juice on it and you will pass for a card carrying Kiwi.

Ha!   No shortage of beetroot here... I'll just raid my pantry.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/1/2021 at 1:26 PM, jaysper said:

Which is proof perhaps that unless you live in a country with substantial natural borders and a small population that lockdowns are a dumb fucking idea?

koff koff Ostraylia koff

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, jaysper said:

R U SERIOUS????

A hundred fucking EURO????

Thats like about 3 Million New Zealand micro pesos!

They had a big sale on ETNZ gear a couple of days ago and T-Shirts were more like 30 or 40 micro pesos.

I'm waiting till post cup for the price to come down cos I am a cheap bastard.

Did the same after San Francisco. Got a hat for 10 micro pesos.

Keep me posted jaysper. I tried but shipping it here cost the price of a small African country. And I’m fucked buying it through the UK because of Brexit. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Keep me posted jaysper. I tried but shipping it here cost the price of a small African country. 

It's worth buying Nigeria. They have thousands of rich Princes over there going by my email inbox.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, southseasbill said:

It's worth buying Nigeria. They have thousands of rich Princes over there going by my email inbox.

Have you received your hundred trezillion dollars from them yet?   Mine is in the post.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Keep me posted jaysper. I tried but shipping it here cost the price of a small African country. And I’m fucked buying it through the UK because of Brexit. 

Keep an eye out on this (1-day.co.nz) web site.

If they won't post to you, you can get it shipped to me and I will post (you can PayPal or something the postage to me).

Incidentally, 1-day.co.nz is owned by The Warehouse Group which is the company Stephen Tindall (ETNZ Chairman) set up in the 80s.

I'm guessing thats why they have the gear cheap.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Thanks mate!

Still amazed that I woke up and was suddenly... old!  :lol:

Yah, I'm a leap year baby so non birthday this year so can celebrate over several days.  Turned 18 a year ago, 18.25 this year.  Where TF has all the time gone?  Scare the shit out of myself when I look in the mirror anymore.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, zenmasterfred said:

Yah, I'm a leap year baby so non birthday this year so can celebrate over several days.  Turned 18 a year ago, 18.25 this year.  Where TF has all the time gone?  Scare the shit out of myself when I look in the mirror anymore.

My saddest birthday was when I was no longer a teenager in hexadecimal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, southseasbill said:

It's worth buying Nigeria. They have thousands of rich Princes over there going by my email inbox.

Totally! I've just got 10 more payments of $1000 to make on my administration fee and they will release the money my lost Nigerian uncle left me.

Super strange as none of my family have heard of him, but apparently I have always occupied a special place in his heart.

So sweet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Keep an eye out on this (1-day.co.nz) web site.

If they won't post to you, you can get it shipped to me and I will post (you can PayPal or something the postage to me).

Incidentally, 1-day.co.nz is owned by The Warehouse Group which is the company Stephen Tindall (ETNZ Chairman) set up in the 80s.

I'm guessing thats why they have the gear cheap.

Looks good....:lol::lol:

 

image.thumb.png.30d7c4d20ae20b82f69cb791386d0939.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Flags said:

Looks good....:lol::lol:

 

image.thumb.png.30d7c4d20ae20b82f69cb791386d0939.png

It's a clearance site, so yeah there is all sorts of garbage there.

But once in a while you get a fucking sweet deal like the 11foot trampoline I got for the kids for the princely sum of $80.

So, if you are keen on cheap clothing from the AC36 winners, keep an eye on it ;)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

So, if you are keen on cheap clothing from the AC36 winners, keep an eye on it ;)

Thanks for the tip Jays. I'm looking forward to buy my Prada t-shirt ;)

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

Yah, I'm a leap year baby so non birthday this year so can celebrate over several days.  Turned 18 a year ago, 18.25 this year.  Where TF has all the time gone?  Scare the shit out of myself when I look in the mirror anymore.

Gosh, you old fart!  :D

I actually like to celebrate my unbirthdays... get 364 of those a year - or for you it 's 365, 3 out of 4 years!

Anyway, happy birthday-that-wasn't for the non-29th!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, strider470 said:

Thanks for the tip Jays. I'm looking forward to buy my Prada t-shirt ;)

I baited that hook just for you, knowing you couldn't resist. LOL!

Fuck Im sick of waiting for the match to start.

Imagine all the shit talking after the 1st race eh?

If the boat that wins the start stays in front and wins the race, we may not learn much since the final between Prada and INEOS showed us that a small difference in boat speed won't necessarily enable a pass.

However if the boat 2nd off the line goes smoking past the other boat to win the race, we pretty much know the outcome of the match.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, strider470 said:

Thanks for the tip Jays. I'm looking forward to buy my Prada t-shirt ;)

That'll be listed under toilet cleaning supplies...

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites