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AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


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And just to add to that record, Mozzy Sails contacted me direct to ask permission to use my photos and even offered to purchase some, by way of compensation. I am more than happy to contribute an

Just for the record, I contacted @erdb @MaxHugen @doroxand @weta27asked if they were happy me using images or graphs etc. I always try to credit them in the video and in the description as agreed.  I

I want to thank all the amazing people I had the pleasure to meet here on Sailing Anarchy during this America's Cup. It's a huge list. Brits, Irish, Kiwis, fellow Italians, French, Dutch, Americans, C

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4 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

So why is the JK manoeuvre named after John Kostecki? He pioneered it?

 a ‘JK’ is nod to the disastrous early tack around the leeward gate manoeuvre called by Oracle Team USA navigator John Kosteki during a key race at the 34th America’s Cup in San Francisco which handed the lead to Emirates Team New Zealand

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5 hours ago, zillafreak said:

982207295_ScreenShot2021-03-09at8_51_02PM.thumb.png.e93a6f61d96377fa8e7c79896509a34f.pngSuper close numbers

Are tacks taken off the upwind speed? Ie is that average of whole leg? Assume it would include manoeuvres as would be too impossible to measure otherwise.

I noted on the time/speed chart how sharp upward LR speed was during/after tack/gybe.

so that might be the balancing factor.

where can those charts be accessed post race?

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29 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

So why is the JK manoeuvre named after John Kostecki? He pioneered it?

It's a tack after rounding a leeward gate. Kind of doubt he was the first sailor to ever do it.

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47 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Finally watched all 4 stern cams. Much more interesting. My 2c

  • LR are pumped getting a win. Chase team hollering afterward
  • LR hit the "G spot" again! 
  • We still don't know who will win
  • Pistol tends to pinch, Blair constantly telling them to build more. Like all us mortals when racing. 
  • ETNZ has the thin hydraulic camber control/rotation control still, thought it was taken off
  • FB said "let's just race our ghost" when behind. Do they actually have a live AI bot telling them optimum course etc? 
  • ETNZ are multirole, with wheel pitch main etc all briefly swapped as required in starts and short tacks.
  • Both teams are all constantly talking, can just hear grinders in the background chatting and sometimes being asked questions by the afterguard. 
  • Jimmy loves a JK... 
  • LBPLRPP. "let's be positive" LRPP. Constant self congratulation on manoeuvres. 

Often wondered about ghost or on board simulation. I guess it has been around in Forza gaming for years. How it’s visualised will be interesting. 

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14 minutes ago, kenergy said:

It's from ditching the sand overboard on the last couple of legs race 2.

Why the fuck would PB have sailed in their gas otherwise?

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36th America’s Cup Day 1 


Buongiorno dall'Inghilterra umida e ventosa!

It’s been a long time coming, this first race off assessment of how the boat platforms stack-up against each other. Methinks the Kiwis are a tad quicker straight line, though also seems too be that the Handbags pull off handling manoeuvres better.

Race 1: It seemed inevitable that Mad Dog Spitelli would try something; he did and betting it all on red going for the luff penalty - with the whole series to roll on still -  why not kick-off bullish to see what happens? 
And as with many races before, one mistake at the start can costs you dear.

Quote of the day Nathan: “You don’t want to be rolling the dice…or putting the race into the hands of the umpires”

Indeed.

Race2: Great to see for us Pizza Eaters that if Luna Rossa PP gets ahead they can hold it to the very end, with a tighter result game… plus the match play twists, rather than allowing the Kiwis a clean drag race victory. Let’s all hope this still proves to be the case as the days roll along.

If so, bodes well for some highly entertaining viewing to come!

S I O M A  S E M P R E  A V A N T I

SC_MST.thumb.jpg.3e93b924529f1a9082d64735027f0f49.jpg

PS: Looking forward to Mozzy’s, more techie style overview
 

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2 hours ago, Foiling Optimist said:

Did anybody else notice how the broadcast team seemed to have so much energy for the second post race analysis? I'll bet they are super relevied that it's not looking like a blowout, and even if it's mostly decided by the starts, it might go either way. It's going to be a lot more fun and a lot easier for them to talk about.  

Nobody benefits from one sided racing. I think we're all pleased that we have a battle royal taking place on the water. At no stage does it help to have either boat thrashed. We the spectator get bored silly, the loser gets humiliated and the winner takes the crown but it's trivialized because they had the 'faster' boat and made the rules. It's as though the faster boat can be sailed by morons and that's not helpful in a sporting context.

So after Day 1, there's lot to look forward to because Day 2 offers much intrigue. It's not so one sided that we're disinterested. And both teams deserve to show us how they can perform on the water. ETNZ are getting some much needed race practice to fine tune and LRPP are building even more belief in the performance of the boat.

And the commentators have something to talk about and we have something to watch. 

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

It was a mistake that led to Team NZ losing the 2nd race

I give etnz more credit than an lr error for the first race start. When lr luffed them up, etnz managed to stay on the foils (unlike Ineos when lr pulled the same move on them in the Prada cup final). Lr had to bear away, lost speed, etnz won the start.

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I must say getting up at the normal time, watching a replay of the races and then catching up on the forum at lunch during work is entertaining. 

Wild swing to 7-0 from the Kiwis followed by an even up and general consensus that both boats appear pretty evenly matched and the starts are crucial (except for the usual suspects of course...).

Looking forward to some hopefully closer races with some passing involved... you know, just to spice it up a little...

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34 minutes ago, The Main Man said:

I must say getting up at the normal time, watching a replay of the races and then catching up on the forum at lunch during work is entertaining. 

Wild swing to 7-0 from the Kiwis followed by an even up and general consensus that both boats appear pretty evenly matched and the starts are crucial (except for the usual suspects of course...).

Looking forward to some hopefully closer races with some passing involved... you know, just to spice it up a little...

Funny right lol

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1 hour ago, Paddywackery said:

And the commentators have something to talk about and we have something to watch. 

That's what I am worried about. Will Kenny keep repeating himself. Please just let's have the boat feed.

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8 hours ago, Zaal said:

JK is after John Kostecki.

Anyone really knows what is the “Chicago” 

 

Yeah, that's the "etymology" but not the meaning. It refers to a bottom mark rounding with immediate (ideally foiling) tack. 

What does Chicago refer to?

We also have Eagle - both foils down for stability, usually in fresh-to-frightening conditions.

Is there other jargon I'm missing?

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6 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

I agree. If anything they might have sacrificed some light wind performance for going better in a breeze. ENTZ might have done the opposite - ditched some up range performance for better light air going.

I don't think the boat speed question is fully sorted. We've seen them on one course in moderate breeze. Questions still remain.

It looked like ETNZ had a cut down leach on the main. Even Kenny/North didn't mention it. I cant understand why they would be sailing with reduced mainsail area in 11.9 knots at the start (14.9 second race).

Is it their smaller main?

Screenshot_20210310-133528_Chrome.jpg

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25 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Kenny always repeats himself, always.

Seriously are folks in this forum are criticising others for repeating themselves?!?!?!?

 

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9 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Is it their smaller main?

They've got the bat wing, but I'm not convinced we're going to see it. Only they know whether they got their sail selection right today. I've an inkling we haven't seen the best of TR yet.

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9 hours ago, jaysper said:

What fucking dribble, you need to watch the analysis with Richard Slater and Ken Read.

The right of way boat has to give the give way boat the opportunity to do all they can to get out of the way, which ETNZ did.

Where I can I find the KR and Richard Slater analysis?

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9 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

They've got the bat wing, but I'm not convinced we're going to see it. Only they know whether they got their sail selection right today. I've an inkling we haven't seen the best of TR yet.

Seems strange to be using the batwing in 11 knots. They could have been expecting more, but actually lost the second race in more wind. 

With LR maintaining more speed out of the tacks maybe ETNZ should be looking for more power not less power. 

It will be interesting which main they hoist on Friday.

BTW my forum reconfigured yesterday. Not liking the new format so far. Any one else feel the same?

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4 hours ago, The Advocate said:

Got the VPN set to the UK, will have to try somewhere else.

I'm using a London server with my VPN (Torguard), and it's fine.

No doubt varies from VPN to VPN and how busy their servers are.

When I set it up, I tested the speeds from a few locations using  speedtest.net , Torguard appear to have servers with good response, only slightly lower than my non-VPN speed.

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13 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Seems strange to be using the batwing in 11 knots. They could have been expecting more, but actually lost the second race in more wind. 

Sail selection is critical in these boats, but like I said, only they know whether they got it right. Pete still seems confident they've got the tools to get the job done. Who knows what their thinking was with today's setup.

20 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

BTW my forum reconfigured yesterday. Not liking the new format so far. Any one else feel the same?

I'm not minding the new look - bit different, but seems okay.

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8 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

 

I'm not minding the new look - bit different, but seems okay.

Lost the notification bell top right.

Lost edit tab on the bottom of posts.

Annoying having to expand context copied into posts. 

So so far not enjoying. 

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30 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

 

BTW my forum reconfigured yesterday. Not liking the new format so far. Any one else feel the same?

I'm not warming to it Winch, but that could be old age on my part :(

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11 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Sail selection is critical in these boats, but like I said, only they know whether they got it right. Pete still seems confident they've got the tools to get the job done. Who knows what their thinking was with today's setup.

I'm not minding the new look - bit different, but seems okay.

After 3 months without a race, ETNZ did well against a very polished and slick LRPP. That said, I agree with you in that I sense there's more to come. I do admire that Pete acknowledges his mistakes and moves on. Jimmy always says LRPP have made mistakes but it's more gamesmanship, a la watch out, there's more to come.

And I wonder are we going to see passing at any stage, I would certainly like to think so.

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56 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

It looked like ETNZ had a cut down leach on the main. Even Kenny/North didn't mention it. I cant understand why they would be sailing with reduced mainsail area in 11.9 knots at the start (14.9 second race).

Is it their smaller main?

Screenshot_20210310-133528_Chrome.jpg

No, the outhaul mechanisms there have always extended past the foot of the mainsail. It's not a cut down leach, and they wouldn't reduce it around the foot anyway, only in the upper sail areas, to reduce heel and lower CE in stronger wind.

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Just now, MaxHugen said:

No, the outhaul mechanisms there have always extended past the foot of the mainsail. It's not a cut down leach, and they wouldn't reduce it around the foot anyway, only in the upper sail areas, to reduce heel and lower CE in stronger wind.

I thought it might be, however thought it might not measure in as it projects beyond the girth.

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37 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Lost the notification bell top right.

Lost edit tab on the bottom of posts.

Annoying having to expand context copied into posts. 

So so far not enjoying. 

Both reappear when you switch to desktop mode. That was better before, but otherwise it's lean which I like. 

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56 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Lost the notification bell top right.

Lost edit tab on the bottom of posts.

Annoying having to expand context copied into posts. 

So so far not enjoying. 

If you are on a tablet just rotate the screen in landscape and the notification and message buttons appear.

For editing you find the command clicking on the ... on the right side of the message.

Let mi know if I was of some help

Im not liking it very much neither.

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6 hours ago, chuso007 said:

The second race maybe?

 

Be gracious in defeat like strider, nothing wrong with dropping a race

One race is nothing. We ended the day the same way we started, so there's no loss here. 

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The outhaul / clew cover is a different material to the sail

826391585_ScreenShot2021-03-10at15_51_32.png.3094d385ed142546ffe926e0e3a2fafd.png

 

Luna Rossa has a similar bump now I notice, although that extenuated during a maneuver

681732227_ScreenShot2021-03-10at15_50_39.png.2eba4e4aaa9158bf2b268a29ead9a521.png

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14 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

One race is nothing. We ended the day the same way we started, so there's no loss here. 

In my very humble opinion, having one win and one loss is different than simply sayng "we are as we started"

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Just now, Forourselves said:

 

Its how the game should be looked at. Its about the big picture.

Even after they pitchpoled in Bermuda, there was no panic. They ended the day the same way they started it that day, and they did the same thing yesterday.

 

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3 hours ago, The Main Man said:

I must say getting up at the normal time, watching a replay of the races and then catching up on the forum at lunch during work is entertaining. 

Wild swing to 7-0 from the Kiwis followed by an even up and general consensus that both boats appear pretty evenly matched and the starts are crucial (except for the usual suspects of course...).

Looking forward to some hopefully closer races with some passing involved... you know, just to spice it up a little...

Nuh-uh.  Don't count me in that general consensus.  The Kiwi boat is faster in a straight line, and significantly faster off the wind.  It's not surprising they slow down more in tacks because the smaller foils need a steeper angle of attack to generate the same lift when they aren't going balls-to-the-wall.

IF the wind lightens up, you'll see the Kiwi advantage erode.  Jimmy is going to have to win the starts.  An even start won't cut it because TNZ will just straightline into the lead.

That reliance on winning the starts and Jimmy is going to cause some unforced errors.

TNZ is winning this thing in 10 races.

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8 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

Yup, arithmethics (a lost art perhaps) is pretty unforgiving.

This isn't "arithmetics" its racing. When you've been around the block a few times as Team NZ fans have, you learn to put things in perspective.

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

 

This is not the point. In that case the race was lost due to an accident. Not in this case, it was lost fair and square. Arithmethics is not able to describe everything in life, and in this particular case, not the concept that "ETNZ can be beaten on the water, and they actually did in race 2"

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4 minutes ago, strider470 said:

This is not the point. In that case the race was lost due to an accident. Not in this case, it was lost fair and square. Arithmethics is not able to describe everything in life, and in this particular case, not the concept that "ETNZ can be beaten on the water, and they actually did in race 2"

Why they lost is irrelevant. The point is, in terms of the big picture, there is no loss. The day started on equal points, and ended on equal points. When INEOS won one race, we didn't see the same kind of rhetoric about them suddenly being competitive then. INEOS often showed higher speed numbers than LR, but it all came to nothing.

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3 hours ago, martin 'hoff said:

Yeah, that's the "etymology" but not the meaning. It refers to a bottom mark rounding with immediate (ideally foiling) tack. 

What does Chicago refer to?

We also have Eagle - both foils down for stability, usually in fresh-to-frightening conditions.

Is there other jargon I'm missing?

Chicago came up in the Prada Cup semifinals, heard on board AM as I recall (could be wrong) and commented on by KR et al. Refers to tack/gybe with both foils intentionally down as I understand.

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10 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Luna Rossa has their first EVER point in an AC match and it took a mistake by ETNZ. Burling always has one nightmare race before he smashes his opponents. You guys might as well just stay in the shed on Friday.

i predict a 7-3 win by Luna Rossa.....  

The Kiwi's are who we thought they were...

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

13-2 = Not the Americas Cup.

5-0 = the Americas Cup

5-0 = the Americas Cup

0-5 = the Americas Cup

2-5 = the Americas Cup

8-9 = the Americas Cup

7-1 = the Americas Cup

 

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ETNZ is so fast that it's going to land on Mars on Friday. :P

Today's regattas have shown how the differences in speed are negligible compared to dexterity.
You win races by starting ahead, boat handling and not making mistakes. That's what we saw today.

Everything else is just speculation.



 

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9 hours ago, Dayracer said:

Is there any explanation why ETNZ in both races started their “afterburner” only on the last downwind leg?

2nd race war really nice to watch them closing the gap from >300m to 60m during the second half of the leg, whereas both on the first and second downwind leg the distance kept steady. 

Maybe part of the media strategy to generate some “excitement”?  

Really?  In the first race LR was searching for some wind changes and were the ones that lost the distance.  In the second race, LR let NZ split away and they got some and shifts.  

If NZ had any speed advantage they would use it on the first two legs and then coast to a victory.  They would never just screw around until the last leg.

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3 hours ago, winchfodder said:

That's what I am worried about. Will Kenny keep repeating himself. Please just let's have the boat feed.

I will second that and third it etc. and Shirley R doesn't seem to like LR much.

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15 minutes ago, bajakiter said:

I will second that and third it etc. and Shirley R doesn't seem to like LR much.

Maybe Ms Shirley is grumpy with LR because they sent her hero Sir Ben packing?

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12 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Well done to the Italians.

Strider and Dolphin must be happy with that. Well worth their early start.

Well done to everyone! What a thrilling starting day.

The first race was thrilling because we could see that NZ speed edge was much lower than expected, the second one because it showed us that LR can win races.

Too early to predict who will win, but let's hope we get a close series till the final race.

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Luca Devoti assessment on FareVela: ETNZ shaken, out of their comfort zone

Me, I go with Max’s comment a few days ago: “I’m confident we’ll win some races - whether enough to win the Cup or not, I don’t know”

 

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That was exactly the Day 1 this event needed.  A 2-0 thumping by either team would have been very bad and we'd be left with an inevitable 7-0 series with little interest left.  Now we know that both boats are competitive with slightly different strengths and weaknesses and the ability to win races off the other. I don't think the LR advantage in the light is as great as some think  though so I'm hoping we'll see a continuation of yesterday with either team capable of winning irrespective of the conditions.  Hopefully they can move this back to the North Head course soon because that seems to offer the most passing lanes and produces the best racing. 

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Luna Rossa made 2 big mistakes
The first just after the first start trying to give NZ a penality (1st regatta)
The second was the JK at the bottom gate before the last upwind leg (2nd regatta) allowing NZ to split and to come back in the race.

I think it will be a very close fight.

NZ has probably a little more maximum speed and probably more talent. Also, the better know their winds.

LR has probably an advantage in taking techniques (thanks to bigger foils and two helmsmen) and a better boat in very light wind.

50 % - 50 %

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The ETNZ press operation is something the Trump campaign would be impressed by.  Leak some self-aggrandizing bullshit like you have a 3kt advantage to some well placed people in the press and then let your fanboys on social media post about it so incessantly and create enough "technical videos" -  based on cut up and manipulated fan footage (similar to the 9/11 truther vhs tapes) that it becomes accepted as truth.

Hoping for some great racing

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14 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Great first race.....Very good start from Pete......Boats pretty evenly matched. LR will be encouraged by that. If they can get in front, they'll be tough to get by. 

Nayld it

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