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AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


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8 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Once Team NZ sort out the optimum angles, tacking angles, jibing angles, through racing, something that can, and will be improved through analysis and debrief, it will be game over. LR, through race practice, know their optimum tacking, and jibing angles, but its something Team NZ are still learning (obviously) relative speeds are very even now, but race toughness has been LR's advantage. Now that Team NZ have been in the heat of battle, they'll debrief and keep making incremental race gains. The speed is clearly there, the race toughness is what is lacking. Is the speed there for LR? The race toughness clearly is, but there will come a point when the faster boat will become evident.

It reads like a pray!

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4 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

"Italy, EU refuse AstraZeneca request to ship 250,000 doses of vaccine to Australia"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-05/italy-eu-block-250000-astrazeneca-doses-to-australia/13218348

Won't be too fast for us either now.

I've read something about that. And I'm so sorry. What I can say is that I am a volunteer in the local White Cross (first aid on the ambulance) and not all our personnel could get the vaccine. I and many other paramedic personnel were scheduled for mid-February and we all were postponed for lack of vaccines. At present, after one month, I still haven't received new scheduling!

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8 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Once Team NZ sort out the optimum angles, tacking angles, jibing angles, through racing, something that can, and will be improved through analysis and debrief, it will be game over. LR, through race practice, know their optimum tacking, and jibing angles, but its something Team NZ are still learning (obviously) relative speeds are very even now, but race toughness has been LR's advantage. Now that Team NZ have been in the heat of battle, they'll debrief and keep making incremental race gains. The speed is clearly there, the race toughness is what is lacking. Is the speed there for LR? The race toughness clearly is, but there will come a point when the faster boat will become evident.

In Italy we say: "se mio nonno aveva le ruote era una carriola". That is "if my grandfather had wheels he would have been a wheelbarrow" :D

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9 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

If this goes to 6-6 I’m going to throw up. 

In that case, who would be starting on port?

 

27 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

A new lockdown really sucks for Italy. Just heard about the possibility today. Real pity the vaccination programs are so slow in Europe. You don't deserve another lockdown this Spring after all we saw last Spring.

 

Screen Shot 2021-03-12 at 8.22.19 AM.png

Shitty situation! Vaccination programme is moving as slow as a turtle here in Italy.... Americans, Brits and Israeli are far ahead and Europe is struggling waiting for vaccine delivery. Numbers here in Italy are increasing again and we're getting prepared for another lockdown... Just look at the UK graph... although they're full blown with the English strain, their weekly new cases are locked at 5,000..... their vaccination programme is doing good

Off topic, full credits to @Salty Seacock's wife tits

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23 minutes ago, strider470 said:

If we think of what her generation had to cope with when they were young... And there are young people now complaining about everything, even staying at home on the sofa...

I love France in general, I was there as a tourist many many times, I can even speak a little bit of French (only spoken, ndone ot written, unfortunately, since I lived for a while in Brussels). And my favourite places are Corse and Bretagne! You're a lucky man living there Jean-Baptiste. All the best to your Country for fighting this damn virus.

EU and EU members seem to have done generally a poor response in regards to pandemic. Perplexing is so.

Bonne chance et bonne santé à tous.

 

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23 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

"Italy, EU refuse AstraZeneca request to ship 250,000 doses of vaccine to Australia"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-05/italy-eu-block-250000-astrazeneca-doses-to-australia/13218348

Won't be too fast for us either now.

Long story short: AstraZeneca is not delivering in EU what they promised on the contracts (and payed for). They basically prefer to export to countries that pay more. At this very moment EU has 35m doses exported and 0 doses imported, and AZ is 65% short of deliveries in EU. It's not about Australia  or Italy, it's the AZ guys playing dirty (it's been two months now).
Hope everything will be solved in a couple of weeks, with other vaccines kickin' in.
OK, not the COVID thread, End of OT. :-)

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2 hours ago, sfigone said:

Essentially the same problem as F1, that the disturbed air from the vehicle in front stops the one behind getting close enough to make a move.  But they can't do what F1 does to help overtaking: bigger tires, less wings, open flaps for straights, etc.  So what can they do:

  • Slow the boats down to be less than the speed of the wind, so the boat behind can throw a wind shadow forward.  Kiss good bye to foils... probably not going to happen.
  • longer legs and wider courses could help?
  • Wider gates to allow more separation?
  • Not just windward leeward races - a long around an island or similar would allow for sail changes, more robust boats, plus more sailing skills in picking a route.  Have some windward leewards as well, but mix it up so there are more diverse conditions.  I'm not sure a simple reaching leg would be enough.
  • Don't allow large amounts of stored energy, ie. no big batteries.  Make the boats use draggy hydro generators to get power to move the foils.   If you can get the boat in front to drain their oil reserves, then the boat behind can attack whilst they are recharging.

Any other ideas?

A few thoughts:

  • Even with no passing, there's still a lot of jeopardy; at any point in the last 2 days a single mistake by the leader could have changed the result. That keeps me on the edge of my seat; if Prada had fluffed that gybe in today's first race it would most probably have cost them the win.
  • We've seen multiple place changes between well-matched boats in shifter conditions (Prada vs Ineos in Prada Cup Round 1), so I think that's part of the solution.
  • Course width is a key parameter; the narrow course forces the boats together. Tacks and gybes are expensive in these boats, so without the course boundaries it would probably be a matter of picking the right corner. That would create more passing opportunities, but the racing would be somewhat boring. Varying the course width according the the shiftiness of the breeze is probably too complicated, but it could be that widening the course by just the right amount creates more passing opportunities without fundamentally changing the nature of the racing.
  • Come to think of it, other than being nice to spectator boats, there's nothing to say the course width has to be the same in both directions. Not sure which direction I'd make wider though!
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could not post 12 hours ago after I watched #3 and #4 due to this forum NOT WORKING ON MY IPAD!

anyway if 60M Italians didn't suffer sphincter pucker then they should have cause team nz found a new gear or something and it had to have crushed the hopes of the LR team, looked pretty definitive to me

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2 hours ago, Paddywackery said:

My Uncle is a farmer and exactly the same as your mother. Not only does he tell the police to 'fuck off and mind their own business' but he encourages friends to call into the house for some whiskey. We have tried to put manners on him but it's no use. He lives alone and is not for changing.

 

I like your Uncle!

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39 minutes ago, Chris in Santa Cruz, CA said:

could not post 12 hours ago after I watched #3 and #4 due to this forum NOT WORKING ON MY IPAD!

anyway if 60M Italians didn't suffer sphincter pucker then they should have cause team nz found a new gear or something and it had to have crushed the hopes of the LR team, looked pretty definitive to me

Looks to me more a case of the start winning the race so I'm not sure the Italians sphincters are any worse than is Kiwis.

That said, I only saw the last half of race 2 as I was busy organizing a birthday party.

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1 hour ago, Thewas said:

Long story short: AstraZeneca is not delivering in EU what they promised on the contracts (and payed for). They basically prefer to export to countries that pay more. At this very moment EU has 35m doses exported and 0 doses imported, and AZ is 65% short of deliveries in EU. It's not about Australia  or Italy, it's the AZ guys playing dirty (it's been two months now).
Hope everything will be solved in a couple of weeks, with other vaccines kickin' in.
OK, not the COVID thread, End of OT. :-)

I find that super surprising.

I don't think NZ is using AZ, but our government is notoriously frugal (which is a good thing) when it comes to pharmaceuticals and we are still getting doses.

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10 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I like your Uncle!

 

7 minutes ago, strider470 said:

He's married and what's more, he's not interested! Get over it

Was it a split roast yesterday for the two of you?

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Just now, marlowe said:

 

Was it a split roast yesterday for the two of you?

ahahahaha just postponed. coal ready for today/tonight :D 

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9 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I find that super surprising.

I don't think NZ is using AZ, but our government is notoriously frugal (which is a good thing) when it comes to pharmaceuticals and we are still getting doses.

Well, it's pretty old story: if I have a car and sell it to three people it's likely a couple of them are going to be pretty angry. :-)

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6 minutes ago, Thewas said:

Well, it's pretty old story: if I have a car and sell it to three people it's likely a couple of them are going to be pretty angry. :-)

Yep, I hope the EU have significant penalty clauses in their contracts, although like pretty much all governments they are probably too incompetent to have done so.

It's a shame, but I'd say AZ will get away with it without penalty. Fuckers.

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2 hours ago, strider470 said:

In Italy we say: "se mio nonno aveva le ruote era una carriola". That is "if my grandfather had wheels he would have been a wheelbarrow" :D

Lots of ‘IF’ from forourselves.. 

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Just now, JALhazmat said:

Lots of ‘IF’ from forourselves.. 

Look, I like Kiwis and I almost wouldn't mind if LR loses, but not, he would be unbearable, so I consider our eventual victory a favour to humanity:D 

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22 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I like your Uncle!

You would enjoy him. He's a headbanger. Some years ago, late at night 2 boyos decided to break into his farmhouse. He heard them coming and lay in wait as they slowly made their way into the kitchen. He clipped one with a golf driver, and hockeyed the fuck out of the second. Realizing that they'd fucked with the wrong man, they ran out the door and down the road. He walked out after them with the shotgun and blew the back window out of their van as they made their getaway. Disappointed that he missed, he lay in the ditch all night hoping they might return. Fortunately, they knew better. 

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27 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Looks to me more a case of the start winning the race so I'm not sure the Italians sphincters are any worse than is Kiwis.

That said, I only saw the last half of race 2 as I was busy organizing a birthday party.

You need to see the first half.

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10 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Yep, I hope the EU have significant penalty clauses in their contracts, although like pretty much all governments they are probably too incompetent to have done so.

It's a shame, but I'd say AZ will get away with it without penalty. Fuckers.

Sadly, penalties are not worth a rats arse, lives are at stake.

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7 hours ago, winchfodder said:

If I had the choice of boat for the next three days with the forecast winds I would be choosing LR.

I think their upwind angles and tacking are better. 

All the way around the course until LR dropped off their foils I was very worried about my ETNZ bet in the second race after LR sailed away nicely on the beats in the first race.

I think LR would have come back on the next two windward legs on the second race to challenge ETNZ. 

Which boat would you choose for the next two or three days?

I don't think LR is faster than TR. The problem is just like what we saw in San Fran. Race toughness. Tacking angles and jibing angles. Straight line speed, definitely TR is faster. But they need to clean up their optimum angles. That happens through analysis and debrief.

I think there is more left in the tank with Team NZ than there is with LR.

Team NZ extended after they got ahead, by some way. After the board issue on LR, there was no change time wise at the following mark rounding. It was after the mark rounding that Team NZ extended and eventually horizon jobbed them.

 

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7 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Look, I like Kiwis and I almost wouldn't mind if LR loses, but not, he would be unbearable, so I consider our eventual victory a favour to humanity:D 

Not gonna happen.

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8 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Look, I like Kiwis and I almost wouldn't mind if LR loses, but not, he would be unbearable, so I consider our eventual victory a favour to humanity:D 

He'll be unbearable either way. All the shit he complains about Oracle doing that the Kiwi's are now doing will again be complained about when LR does them.

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5 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

You would enjoy him. He's a headbanger. Some years ago, late at night 2 boyos decided to break into his farmhouse. He heard them coming and lay in wait as they slowly made their way into the kitchen. He clipped one with a golf driver, and hockeyed the fuck out of the second. Realizing that they'd fucked with the wrong man, they ran out the door and down the road. He walked out after them with the shotgun and blew the back window out of their van as they made their getaway. Disappointed that he missed, he lay in the ditch all night hoping they might return. Fortunately, they knew better. 

Hey, now I like your uncle too! Great man :D

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Just now, Forourselves said:

I think there is more left in the tank with Team NZ than there is with LR.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. NZ is still shaking off the rust.  Scrimaging against a chase boat will never refine skills like real racing. 

I like the opinion of that AM grinder that somebody interviewed. First to four wins?  LR wins because they're already in racing form.  First to 7 wins?  NZ takes it because they'll have time to improve. 

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11 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Look, I like Kiwis and I almost wouldn't mind if LR loses, but not, he would be unbearable, so I consider our eventual victory a favour to humanity:D 

I can’t fault the logic :D

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56 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Well AM  made it happen and LR made it happen twice so there is a precedent.. 

Maybe... there is also the other precedent. 

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58 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Look, I like Kiwis and I almost wouldn't mind if LR loses, but not, he would be unbearable, so I consider our eventual victory a favour to humanity:D 

Please take the cup

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Has anyone been listening to PJ? I'm tired of the Kenny and Shirley show, TVNZ are better for sure, not as much chat, want to see how ZB is

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10 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Has anyone been listening to PJ? I'm tired of the Kenny and Shirley show, TVNZ are better for sure, not as much chat, want to see how ZB is

Matt Sheehan on YT channel PlanetSail has pretty good interviews etc. Asks good questions, then lets the interviewee elaborate without interruption. :)

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

Looks to me more a case of the start winning the race so I'm not sure the Italians sphincters are any worse than is Kiwis.

That said, I only saw the last half of race 2 as I was busy organizing a birthday party.

I looked at the start again and nz had a bigger advantage than I remembered once they crossed the line and got going. LR looked late to come up to weather and ended up getting gassed etc.

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2 hours ago, Paddywackery said:

You would enjoy him. He's a headbanger. Some years ago, late at night 2 boyos decided to break into his farmhouse. He heard them coming and lay in wait as they slowly made their way into the kitchen. He clipped one with a golf driver, and hockeyed the fuck out of the second. Realizing that they'd fucked with the wrong man, they ran out the door and down the road. He walked out after them with the shotgun and blew the back window out of their van as they made their getaway. Disappointed that he missed, he lay in the ditch all night hoping they might return. Fortunately, they knew better. 

Great story, Paddy. I like him too. 

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Just watched the interviews and press conference.... FFS does every question have to be "how do you feel about X". Even NO's "technical" questions are all about feelings.

Why didn't anybody ask about LRs jib change? Was it too draggy? What about if NZ high mode? is that something new?  What about why they are all getting time on distance wrong(ish).

Ok they might not answer the questions, but at least i would care of they did!

 

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2 minutes ago, sfigone said:

Just watched the interviews and press conference.... FFS does every question have to be "how do you feel about X". Even NO's "technical" questions are all about feelings.

Why didn't anybody ask about LRs jib change? Was it too draggy? What about if NZ high mode? is that something new?  What about why they are all getting time on distance wrong(ish).

Ok they might not answer the questions, but at least i would care of they did!

 

Agree, it's horrible, but not just the questions, the answers, too. I get it, it's cool to play the secrecy game in the AC, but for fucks sake they could talk about the obvious stuff at least. They watch each other all the time, they're not going to reveal anything new to the other team. Bruni is the only one who's willing to put together 2-3 meaningful sentences at least.

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My Observation of the first two Race Days of the Match:

Luna Rossa basically had to sail two perfect Races to get two Points.

Burling made two mistakes: In the 2nd Race on Wednesday he messed up the Start giving the Italians a 70-Meter Advantage right of the Starting Line per Virtual Eye and in the 1st Race yesterday he left too much of a gap when both Boats crossed the Starting Line allowing Spithill to leebow him as they came out of that left-handed boundary.

I expect ETNZ to go up 4 - 2 today winning both Races.

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9 minutes ago, sfigone said:

Just watched the interviews and press conference.... FFS does every question have to be "how do you feel about X". Even NO's "technical" questions are all about feelings.

Why didn't anybody ask about LRs jib change? Was it too draggy? What about if NZ high mode? is that something new?  What about why they are all getting time on distance wrong(ish).

Ok they might not answer the questions, but at least i would care of they did!

 

Well said but then Jiminey Cricket and Joe Public wouldn’t understand. It’s tokenism at best. 

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7 minutes ago, erdb said:

Agree, it's horrible, but not just the questions, the answers, too. I get it, it's cool to play the secrecy game in the AC, but for fucks sake they could talk about the obvious stuff at least. They watch each other all the time, they're not going to reveal anything new to the other team. Bruni is the only one who's willing to put together 2-3 meaningful sentences at least.

Bruni wears his heart on his sleeve and calls it as he sees it. Even his interviews after the race on the boat while brief, offer something. 

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3 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

My Observation of the first two Race Days of the Match:

Luna Rossa basically had to sail two perfect Races to get two Points.

Burling made two mistakes: In the 2nd Race on Wednesday he messed up the Start giving the Italians a 70-Meter Advantage right of the Starting Line per Virtual Eye and in the 1st Race yesterday he left too much of a gap when both Boats crossed the Starting Line allowing Spithill to leebow him as they came out of that left-handed boundary.

I expect ETNZ to go up 4 - 2 today winning both Races.

My Observation of the first two Race Days of the Match:

ETNZ basically had to sail two perfect Races to get two Points.

LR made two mistakes: In the 1st Race on Wednesday they messed up the Start giving NZ an advantage right of the Starting Line per Virtual Eye and in the 2nd Race yesterday they tacked away too late, allowing Burling to leebow them as they came out of that right-handed boundary.

I expect LRPP to go up 4 - 2 today winning both Races.

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  15 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:    If this goes to 6-6 I’m going to throw up. 
 
5 hours ago, Dolphin65 said:

In that case, who would be starting on port?

NZL  on port entry at race 13   ....    they have 7 port entries  vs.  6 port entries for ITA

 

 

2021 America's Cup - Wikipedia.png

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8 hours ago, accnick said:

It is nothing like nil all. At nil all, you have to win seven races. At 2-2, either team has to win five. Even, but nothing like nil all. 

Are you going to say 6-6 is the same as nil all?

both won 2 apiece which makes it pretty even thus far and is now first to accumulate 5 more wins and yes 6 all is pretty much a one shot race hence nill all

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4 minutes ago, Norberto said:
  15 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:    If this goes to 6-6 I’m going to throw up. 
 

NZL  on port entry at race 13   ....    they have 7 port entries  vs.  6 port entries for ITA

I went with a 7-6 win to NZ - but only because I wanted to watch 13 races. :)

Didn't actually have any expectations of it panning out like that though!

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13 minutes ago, sfigone said:

My Observation of the first two Race Days of the Match:

ETNZ basically had to sail two perfect Races to get two Points.

LR made two mistakes: In the 1st Race on Wednesday they messed up the Start giving NZ an advantage right of the Starting Line per Virtual Eye and in the 2nd Race yesterday they tacked away too late, allowing Burling to leebow them as they came out of that right-handed boundary.

I expect LRPP to go up 4 - 2 today winning both Races.

LOL,

But nice try :D

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3 hours ago, Paddywackery said:

Sadly, penalties are not worth a rats arse, lives are at stake.

Yes, but the only thing people like that understand is a hit to the wallet. Fine them $50 Billion and they will think twice before doing it again.

If you look at what happened post GFC, the bankers were bailed out representing absolutely zero incentive to not do it again.

I wish they'd jailed the fuckers for life.

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12 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I went with a 7-6 win to NZ - but only because I wanted to watch 13 races. :)

Didn't actually have any expectations of it panning out like that though!

with a high this size  you can expect anything to happen, Tamaki river was a sheet of glass this morning and barely a zephyr now at 10.00am

today.png

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3 hours ago, strider470 said:

Look, I like Kiwis and I almost wouldn't mind if LR loses, but not, he would be unbearable, so I consider our eventual victory a favour to humanity:D 

I'm sure forourselves will be an unbearable boor win or lose, so keep your favours to yourselves not forourselves! :lol:

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Why are people still wanking about boat speed when it seems perfectly plain that the power of port entry and being ahead are far bigger factors?

The team that will lose this cup is the one that screws up their port entry start, and/or makes 1-2 blunders that give up the lead after winning the start via port entry.

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3 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Thanks Jaysper, that’s about as useful as a chocolate fireguard :lol:

OI !!!......... you're from farming stock, we expected something like tits on a bull  not that malarkey

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17 minutes ago, 167149 said:

with a high this size  you can expect anything to happen, Tamaki river was a sheet of glass this morning and barely a zephyr now at 10.00am

 

Interesting!  On the outer edge of Coromandel Harbour, it's been constantly blowing over 10 knots for the last 2-3 hours.  Anything can happen all right!

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1 minute ago, 167149 said:

OI !!!......... you're from farming stock, we expected something like tits on a bull  not that malarkey

I can’t disrespect the livestock, even the cows are wondering why the lights are on at 3 am in the morning. 

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8 hours ago, sfigone said:

Essentially the same problem as F1, that the disturbed air from the vehicle in front stops the one behind getting close enough to make a move.  But they can't do what F1 does to help overtaking: bigger tires, less wings, open flaps for straights, etc.  So what can they do:

  • Slow the boats down to be less than the speed of the wind, so the boat behind can throw a wind shadow forward.  Kiss good bye to foils... probably not going to happen.
  • longer legs and wider courses could help?
  • Wider gates to allow more separation?
  • Not just windward leeward races - a long around an island or similar would allow for sail changes, more robust boats, plus more sailing skills in picking a route.  Have some windward leewards as well, but mix it up so there are more diverse conditions.  I'm not sure a simple reaching leg would be enough.
  • Don't allow large amounts of stored energy, ie. no big batteries.  Make the boats use draggy hydro generators to get power to move the foils.   If you can get the boat in front to drain their oil reserves, then the boat behind can attack whilst they are recharging.

Any other ideas?

 

A "Round Rangi" course would be nice 

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19 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

And when do we expect the decision? 

Let's hope Tina tells Luna Rossa the correct course :D

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11 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

I can’t disrespect the livestock, even the cows are wondering why the lights are on at 3 am in the morning. 

we are all too familiar with the 3am thing down here and disturbing the livestock at that hour can really piss them off

no.jpg

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Just now, Paddywackery said:

Paddy says set the alarm and have the espresso ready. 

Course A makes sense to me. Likely Thermal Breeze will come from the NE you would think!

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Just now, dg_sailingfan said:

Course A makes sense to me. Likely Thermal Breeze will come from the NE you would think!

And the punters will be out in force which is great.

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