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AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


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8 minutes ago, 36thLatitude said:

Totally agree, LR lost the second race with a mistake.

Did they? Hard to judge. Are there any wind data available? How much wind they had when they dropped off? How much wind there was when TR rounded the mark. TR was 2000 m behind when LR dropped so in totally different wind.

 

But it's clear that TR did not drop off the foils due to too low wind. It was either their mistake or forced by LR.

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And just to add to that record, Mozzy Sails contacted me direct to ask permission to use my photos and even offered to purchase some, by way of compensation. I am more than happy to contribute an

Just for the record, I contacted @erdb @MaxHugen @doroxand @weta27asked if they were happy me using images or graphs etc. I always try to credit them in the video and in the description as agreed.  I

I want to thank all the amazing people I had the pleasure to meet here on Sailing Anarchy during this America's Cup. It's a huge list. Brits, Irish, Kiwis, fellow Italians, French, Dutch, Americans, C

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1 minute ago, Joakim said:

Did they? Hard to judge. Are there any wind data available? How much wind they had when they dropped off? How much wind there was when TR rounded the mark. TR was 2000 m behind when LR dropped so in totally different wind.

 

But it's clear that TR did not drop off the foils due to too low wind. It was either their mistake or forced by LR.

According to their skipper the fucked up the tack

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Distracted by the on-water drama, we may have missed the off-water moves!

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6NjFmZWRiNDgxMGVhYzllYQ

Basically LR wanting access to TV Control Rooms and to put an observer onboard Ian Murray's boat to keep him honest about wind limits. Talk about counter-productive! Ian Murray is the last person you want to try and remind pf the AC33 race control boat shenanigans!

LR might have screwed the pooch with the officials over this one.

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3 minutes ago, Joakim said:

Did they? Hard to judge. Are there any wind data available? How much wind they had when they dropped off? How much wind there was when TR rounded the mark. TR was 2000 m behind when LR dropped so in totally different wind.

 

But it's clear that TR did not drop off the foils due to too low wind. It was either their mistake or forced by LR.

Watch the presser. Blair said they gybed in a lull and through LR gas. Would have been ok with either but both was their mistake. 
 

Francisco said the tack was marginal but possible if they executed perfectly, but they made a few mistakes in the tack. 

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3 minutes ago, JJD said:

others calling it a lottery a doing a disservice to the skill required to stay fouling in such light breeze. 

It's not lottery but bad luck. Only option for TR to win was for LR to drop and not get up within three minutes or so. And they got the very light wind needed for that.

It remains to be seen which boat is able to stay up better in light. Now they didn't sail in at all in the same wind.

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4 hours ago, strider470 said:

Not the luckiest pick at the lottery for LR. Che sfiga ragazzi. Shit happens. See you tomorrow guys. Go Luna. Never say never!

I like ETNZ winning. But that was a bit of a lottery. Exciting, terrifying, disappointing and unbelievable all in one race.

Sorry that time didn't run out, as that would've been the best result I think.

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Just now, Nutta said:

I like ETNZ winning. But that was a bit of a lottery. Exciting, terrifying, disappointing and unbelievable all in one race.

Sorry that time didn't run out, as that would've been the best result I think.

Like it ran out 4 ETNZ in San Diego...when we led by a country mile on match point.

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8 minutes ago, Joakim said:

Did they? Hard to judge. Are there any wind data available? How much wind they had when they dropped off? How much wind there was when TR rounded the mark. TR was 2000 m behind when LR dropped so in totally different wind.

 

But it's clear that TR did not drop off the foils due to too low wind. It was either their mistake or forced by LR.

It appeared quite clear that a) LR did not force an error on TR and b) it looked very much like LR fluffed a tack. It as just that the LR mistake was more costly.

These boats shave very sensitive and accurate anemometers on board so they know just what the TWS is millisecond by millisecond - no excuses. 

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Just listening to the press conference, I noticed Bruni saying they made a couple of minor mistakes in that tack where they fell off the foils. While that may sound depressing for the team, it may actually be better than just accepting the fatality and randomness of the wind gods.

Making mistakes means you can learn from it and come out better and stronger next time round. So today might not be as damaging for LR's team morale as perhaps some of us might think.

 

Generally I think it's beginning to become clear that TR is a faster boat than LR, maybe MUCH faster. Every time they get in front, the basically stretch away significantly.

It's a great testament to team LR that they are managing to keep it as close as it has been to date

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5 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

It appeared quite clear that a) LR did not force an error on TR

Could you elaborate on that. LR did luff them and there were two options. To do a quick jibe while there still was room to go behind or be stuck. They were forced to make a choice and both options had the risk of getting off the foils.

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10 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Distracted by the on-water drama, we may have missed the off-water moves!

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6NjFmZWRiNDgxMGVhYzllYQ

Basically LR wanting access to TV Control Rooms and to put an observer onboard Ian Murray's boat to keep him honest about wind limits. Talk about counter-productive! Ian Murray is the last person you want to try and remind pf the AC33 race control boat shenanigans!

LR might have screwed the pooch with the officials over this one.

Another CoR attempt to change the rules/status quo - I agree rh3000, questioning the ethics of Iain Murray or suggesting bias in coverage is a real 'spit the dummy' move and unlikely to win them any friends anywhere, never mind amongst the organisers.

Somewhat reminiscent of the Qingdao Olympic Regatta (2008) when after a capsize which irreparably damaged their boat just before the Medal Race the Dames were lent another boat by the Croatian team and went on to win gold. The Italians (that's the Olympic Committee not the sailors) complained to CAS. In the meantime the Croatians were awarded the Olympics' highest honour, the Pierre de Coubertin Medal

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16 minutes ago, 36thLatitude said:

Like it ran out 4 ETNZ in San Diego...when we led by a country mile on match point.

True. Still, it just didn't sit quite right. But it's in the books...

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24 minutes ago, 36thLatitude said:

According to their skipper the fucked up the tack

Sure you listened carefully to the end? They fucked up the tack mainly because there was a drop of the wind and the manouver become extremely critical. But we will see better when the wind and boatspeed data analysis will be published, very soon. Not that this changes anything, but it is useful to understand, also for the teams.

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9 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

  On 1/16/2021 at 11:17 AM, Mozzy Sails said:
I don't have monetisation on my videos,

And on the 16th of January my videos weren't monetised. 

If you'd asked me in 2003 if I'd ever been to Portsmouth I'd have said no. Does that make me a liar in 2021?

You accuse me of plagiarising forum members and the truth is I asked permission and gave credit as requested by the persons involved.

You accuse me of not posting and just lurking. Again, not true, I've posted here more in the last two months than ever. 

You accuse me of passing off original content in here as my own, again not true. I never passed anything off as my own that wasn't. I show things that's have been created and put online here, but my views on what they show and what they mean are my own. 

Quote

"He said he wasn't doing it for money - he is......That makes him a liar, thief, and a fraud in my book.

I actually never said that. Does that make you a liar? Will you apologize? Don't worry, I  don't care what I am listed under in your book. 

It also happens to be true, I could have made more money doing the same hours with a paper round. Plus I have an extensive wardrobe collection of crappy jumpers to offset the cost of. 

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6 minutes ago, Joakim said:

Could you elaborate on that. LR did luff them and there were two options. To do a quick jibe while there still was room to go behind or be stuck. They were forced to make a choice and both options had the risk of getting off the foils.

Really? LR luffed them? Not according to Virtual Eye where the blue dots of LR show them bearing away if anything. That's how Virtual Eye works isn't it?. 

I only think they came up on LR unexpectedly fast, are you suggesting LR slowed down to trap them? I think not.

ETNZ gybed into the disturbed air of LR.

BTW the live action confirms LR bearing away, not luffing, not unless the blue dots are wrong there too. 2cm accuracy I understand.

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21 minutes ago, Nutta said:

I like ETNZ winning. But that was a bit of a lottery. Exciting, terrifying, disappointing and unbelievable all in one race.

Sorry that time didn't run out, as that would've been the best result I think.

Mate, thanks for your message of extreme sportmanship, but you lost an America's Cup for something like that, and it wouldn't have been fair. I felt for the Kiwis at the time, since I was supporting ETNZ. This is sailing, and wind drops can happen. Not anybody fault. It is what it is! It will be bettter tomorrow. Luck comes and goes. Go Luna!!!!

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2 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

And on the 16th of January my videos weren't monetised. 

If you'd asked me in 2003 if I'd ever been to Portsmouth I'd have said no. Does that make me a liar in 2021?

You accuse me of plagiarising forum members and the truth is I asked permission and gave credit as requested by the persons involved.

You accuse me of not posting and just lurking. Again, not true, I've posted here more in the last two months than ever. 

You accuse me of passing off original content in here as my own, again not true. I never passed anything off as my own that wasn't. I show things that's have been created and put online here, but my views on what they show and what they mean are my own. 

I actually never said that. Does that make you a liar? Will you apologize? Don't worry about, I  don't care what I am listed under in your book. 

It also happens to be true, I could have made more money doing the same hours with a paper round. Plus I have an extensive wardrobe collection of crappy jumpers to offset the cost of. 

Mozzy, you don't need to reply to this sort of nonsense, but you do need to give us an update video ASAP. Keep them coming and thanks so much. 

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4 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

And on the 16th of January my videos weren't monetised. 

If you'd asked me in 2003 if I'd ever been to Portsmouth I'd have said no. Does that make me a liar in 2021?

You accuse me of plagiarising forum members and the truth is I asked permission and gave credit as requested by the persons involved.

You accuse me of not posting and just lurking. Again, not true, I've posted here more in the last two months than ever. 

You accuse me of passing off original content in here as my own, again not true. I never passed anything off as my own that wasn't. I show things that's have been created and put online here, but my views on what they show and what they mean are my own. 

I actually never said that. Does that make you a liar? Will you apologize? Don't worry about, I  don't care what I am listed under in your book. 

It also happens to be true, I could have made more money doing the same hours with a paper round. Plus I have an extensive wardrobe collection of crappy jumpers to offset the cost of. 

Mozzy keep up the good work. I for one think your work is good and immensely enjoy the insights put on video. 

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I just hope LR comes back to 5-5 tomorrow and we see good racing. This day really hurt. I was all for NZ in 2013 and that hurt me a lot as well. Back then I didn't really like Jimmy. Actually I think this is the first AC I don't like NZ to win. Nothing against NZ, just feel it's time for Italy to win.

For some reason I don't understand Dean seems to be hated here. I really liked him then and still do. Now I cheer for LR and have grown to somewhat like Jimmy. Although I would have preferred an all Italian helmsman pair or only Francesco. Not that Jimmy wouldn't be great, but I know there's a lot of talent in Italy and Jimmy seems to get a bigger attention than he maybe deserves. It seems to me that most of the tactics are done by Francesco and Pietro.

Now Jimmy really needs to keep winning the starts like he did today. I don't see LR passing after loosing a start and TR can maybe pass again. Today TR had maybe a bit of luck in the first pass and a lot of luck in the second.

Should LR have beard away instead of trying a desperate leebow in the first pass? Then they might have had some luck with starboard on the next crossing?

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1 minute ago, Mozzy Sails said:

 

It also happens to be true, I could have made more money doing the same hours with a paper round. Plus I have an extensive wardrobe collection of crappy jumpers to offset the cost of. 

As we say in NZ, no worries mate. Don't let one dickhead spoil a fun time to be a sailor. Anyone posting stuff here has put their brains. or lack thereof in the public domain, I see no problem quoting them. Congrats on having some tens of thousands following you, tall poppy syndrome it's known as here. Sponsors love people giving them positive exposure and are happy to pay for it, or they wouldnt do it. Cash in while you can, jaysus even ask for a few cents in donations, everyone else does. 

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8 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

And on the 16th of January my videos weren't monetised. 

If you'd asked me in 2003 if I'd ever been to Portsmouth I'd have said no. Does that make me a liar in 2021?

You accuse me of plagiarising forum members and the truth is I asked permission and gave credit as requested by the persons involved.

You accuse me of not posting and just lurking. Again, not true, I've posted here more in the last two months than ever. 

You accuse me of passing off original content in here as my own, again not true. I never passed anything off as my own that wasn't. I show things that's have been created and put online here, but my views on what they show and what they mean are my own. 

I actually never said that. Does that make you a liar? Will you apologize? Don't worry, I  don't care what I am listed under in your book. 

It also happens to be true, I could have made more money doing the same hours with a paper round. Plus I have an extensive wardrobe collection of crappy jumpers to offset the cost of. 

Don't let him suck you in - he seems to get more childish pleasure from doing that than actually producing anything meaningful himself.

The ignore function can be quite useful sometimes

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36 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Distracted by the on-water drama, we may have missed the off-water moves!

https://docs.google.com/a/acofficials.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNvZmZpY2lhbHMub3JnfGFjMzYtb2ZmaWNpYWwtbm90aWNlYm9hcmR8Z3g6NjFmZWRiNDgxMGVhYzllYQ

Basically LR wanting access to TV Control Rooms and to put an observer onboard Ian Murray's boat to keep him honest about wind limits. Talk about counter-productive! Ian Murray is the last person you want to try and remind pf the AC33 race control boat shenanigans!

LR might have screwed the pooch with the officials over this one.

Oldest trick in the book --a bit like high level football where the player pretends to be injured trying to get a penalty awarded. I was always suspect of the LR management (not the sailors)  after the ill-fated press conference they gave during the Prada Cup about the rules during the level 3 lockdown. 

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7 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

I actually never said that. Does that make you a liar? Will you apologize? Don't worry, I  don't care what I am listed under in your book. 

I copped a fair bit of flack for having a go at you Mozzy. As someone who was a content producer I take copyright very seriously, and even litigated more than once to protect my own content. That said, I unfairly maligned you, and do take it back, and sincerely, and unreservedly apologize.

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8 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

And on the 16th of January my videos weren't monetised. 

If you'd asked me in 2003 if I'd ever been to Portsmouth I'd have said no. Does that make me a liar in 2021?

You accuse me of plagiarising forum members and the truth is I asked permission and gave credit as requested by the persons involved.

You accuse me of not posting and just lurking. Again, not true, I've posted here more in the last two months than ever. 

You accuse me of passing off original content in here as my own, again not true. I never passed anything off as my own that wasn't. I show things that's have been created and put online here, but my views on what they show and what they mean are my own. 

I actually never said that. Does that make you a liar? Will you apologize? Don't worry about, I  don't care what I am listed under in your book. 

It also happens to be true, I could have made more money doing the same hours with a paper round. Plus I have an extensive wardrobe collection of crappy jumpers to offset the cost of. 

FWIW, I don't give a shit if your vids are monetised. I think you should have them monetised and make hay while the sun shines. That is why I didn't get why he had a shot at me for my correction. I never said anything about monitisation. As far as I am concerned, YT is making a fuck ton of what creators do, FFS get your hand in that pot if you can.

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@Mozzy Sails In your recent video about alternative starting strategies, your thoughts were exactly the same as mine. I arrived to your same conclusions some hours before the video (I can prove it), so I want some credit ;) :D :D

So not only you stole my ideas, but you did it reading in my mind. This is unacceptable! :D :D

Please Mozzy, don't be bothered by all this crap and keep on doing your interesting videos!

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9 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Really? LR luffed them? Not according to Virtual Eye where the blue dots of LR show them bearing away if anything. That's how Virtual Eye works isn't it?. 

Well they didn't actually luff, but worked they way to being in a leebow position. Then they beard away with TR. Thus they gave them bad air and forced them to do something. Either keep up with the risk of being luffed or jibe. They didn't give them option to just roll or get a hook. Nor to sail their best VMG.

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2 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I copped a fair bit of flack for having a go at you Mozzy. As someone who was a content producer I take copyright very seriously, and even litigated more than once to protect my own content. That said, I unfairly maligned you, and do take it back, and sincerely, and unreservedly apologize.

Well said HR, we are all right on the Internet! Takes a true gentleman to apologise. Hope you got justice. 

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

@Mozzy Sails In your recent video about alternative starting strategies, your thoughts were exactly the same as mine. I arrived to your same conclusions some hours before the video (I can prove it), so I want some credit ;) :D :D

So not only you stole my ideas, but you did it reading in my mind. This is unacceptable! :D :D

Please Mozzy, don't be bothered by all this crap and keep on doing your interesting videos!

Dude, you jumped the english translation shark on this one.

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Just now, strider470 said:

@Mozzy Sails In your recent video about alternative starting strategies, your thoughts were exactly the same as mine. I arrived to your same conclusions some hours before the video (I can prove it), so I want some credit ;) :D :D

So not only you stole my ideas, but you did it reading in my mind. This is unacceptable! :D :D

Please Mozzy, don't be bothered by all this crap and keep on doing your interesting videos!

Welp he stole my whole 'port entry' wins prediction, pointed out I was wrong, and didn't credit me. Which I was very thankful for given the very next two races I was proven wrong! :D

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I copped a fair bit of flack for having a go at you Mozzy. As someone who was a content producer I take copyright very seriously, and even litigated more than once to protect my own content. That said, I unfairly maligned you, and do take it back, and sincerely, and unreservedly apologize.

Shit, an apology.

That's not usually that SA way.

Good on ya.

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2 minutes ago, Nutta said:

Shit, an apology.

That's not usually that SA way.

Good on ya.

It has actually happened quite a bit over the years. Those side line critics and cranky old bastards might play a hard game, but the ones genuine about the sport and their ethics put their hands up when they get it wrong.

Not that you did, but that is not the time for people to take the piss. You message is on point.

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1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

Both HR and myself have retracted and apologised for things we said about Mozzy Sails. Even Aussies won't take the piss at that.

Ahhh ok. Now I see it! Sorry mate, I missed your apologies. Intelligent people understand when they make some misdudjement.

At first, I thought I've written something particularly weird because of my poor English.

;) 

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3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Ahhh ok. Now I see it! Sorry mate, I missed your apologies. Intelligent people understand when they make some misdudjement.

At first, I thought I've written something particularly weird because of my poor English.

;) 

All good, play on!

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28 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I copped a fair bit of flack for having a go at you Mozzy. As someone who was a content producer I take copyright very seriously, and even litigated more than once to protect my own content. That said, I unfairly maligned you, and do take it back, and sincerely, and unreservedly apologize.

Respect Horn Rock. I too apologise when i get it wrong.

Ignore undone and well done Sir!

Big Balls!

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30 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I copped a fair bit of flack for having a go at you Mozzy. As someone who was a content producer I take copyright very seriously, and even litigated more than once to protect my own content. That said, I unfairly maligned you, and do take it back, and sincerely, and unreservedly apologize.

Well done

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2 hours ago, in_TO said:

I think R8 spells the end of foiling boats in the Cup. Convince me I am wrong.

No, neither team in the final would do that. They've already said so. But the wind speed minimum is too low.

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I'm incredibly proud of LR, and I honestly think we still have a chance to win this.

Anyway, full credit to the Kiwis, yesterday they made less mistakes, and deserved to win the first race. The second one was a bit of a lottery. But that's ok. This is the AC, not the Grandfather Cup, after all ;) 

Forza ragazzi ! 

PS: I have to quote him: "Imagine if they lost from here"  B)

 

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1 minute ago, dogwatch said:

No, neither team in the final would do that. They've already said so. But the wind speed minimum is too low.

Agree. I have been running this one through my head since the race. Would they really move towards a Cup with a 10 knot window?

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3 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Agree. I have been running this one through my head since the race. Would they really move towards a Cup with a 10 knot window?

If we win, GD will want to retain current limits, or it limits design too much. In SF we were fucked by a 10kt reduction in limits. The tractor was doomed

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

Sure you listened carefully to the end? They fucked up the tack mainly because there was a drop of the wind and the manouver become extremely critical. But we will see better when the wind and boatspeed data analysis will be published, very soon. Not that this changes anything, but it is useful to understand, also for the teams.

Jimmy said something about foil cavitation just b4 touchdown so not sure if wind or tacking mistake

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5 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Agree. I have been running this one through my head since the race. Would they really move towards a Cup with a 10 knot window?

What if the teams are required to design a boat that is somehow better than a log of wood even in displacement mode?

A race, before starting, could be declared by the race committee either foiling or not foiling based on the wind forecast, (<15 kts / > 15 kts)

In the non-foiling races, you are not allowed to fly and you can use sails like gennakers etc.

Also, the course would be changed accordingly.

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2 minutes ago, strider470 said:

What if the teams are required to design a boat that is somehow better than a log of wood even in displacement mode?

A race, before starting, could be declared by the race committee either foiling or not foiling based on the wind forecast, (<15 kts / > 15 kts)

In the non-foiling races, you are not allowed to fly and you can use sails like gennakers etc.

Also, the course would be changed accordingly.

Difficult but doable and there is precedence I believe.

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36th America’s Cup Day 5

Phew… we all wanted more drama as we moved toward this end phase of the Cup challenge - we got it in spades.
Race 7: Seems ENTZ sail plan choice for Te Rehutai paid BIGLY with the first lead change during a beat, and defo a gulp moment seeing the Kiwis average 3knts faster for the remainder of the legs.

(Ouch)


Though for sure Jimmy’s earning his fee for bossing both race starts… Quote of the day Pete Burling: “It’s definitely the more tense side of sailing”

Stressful viewing too, for any Italian sailing fans watching - no one saw a lead of that magnitude evaporating during Race 8. Fantastic dig deep from the Kiwis hauling it all back. Bravo!

Seems tomorrow is on, with light winds predicted so jib choices once more proving pivotal. No pressure then on the team weather gurus at all.

Game on.


A L E A   L A C T A   E S T
 

SC_MST.thumb.jpg.a95dd07cb02fcf220c95a24cffb7002e.jpg

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What an invaluable asset for LR Team is James Spithill! Apart from his incredible starting capabilities, I mean. His winning attitude was key to bring us at this point. And what a good partnership in the afterguard with Checco and Pietro. Very proud of our boys, fantastic sailors!

Go LR. Nothing is lost until the end.

Domani cazzimma estrema!!!!!!!! #daicazzo!

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2 hours ago, Barnyb said:

 

Hope this effort to dig LR helms mood deep will bring her some benefit.
Man, I thought next (pointless) question would have been: "Jimmy and Checco, how does it feel to be slower and sad and ugly?".
Maybe next time bring them a pic of that favourite puppy that tragically died when they were kids.

Is she still upset for the Sir Ben sweeping?

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1 hour ago, Mozzy Sails said:

You accuse me of passing off original content in here as my own, again not true. I never passed anything off as my own that wasn't. I show things that's have been created and put online here, but my views on what they show and what they mean are my own. 

Of tangential relevance but perhaps amusing to those who remember her, Marian Martin, without a by-your-leave, once lifted one of my better-written posts verbatim and passed it off as hers in her newsletter. I was then vehemently accused on SAAC by multiple people of passing off her content as my own. After a while, she reluctantly fessed up.

I still miss her.

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1 hour ago, Clapham said:

Mozzy, you don't need to reply to this sort of nonsense, but you do need to give us an update video ASAP. Keep them coming and thanks so much. 

I agree 100% Mozzy your videos are great, really interesting technically, but also very well presented and you even manage to get a bit of humour (oh and the odd dodgy jumper), keep it up 98% of us think you are terrific!

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27 minutes ago, Thewas said:

Hope this effort to dig LR helms mood deep will bring her some benefit.
Man, I thought next (pointless) question would have been: "Jimmy and Checco, how does it feel to be slower and sad and ugly?".
Maybe next time bring them a pic of that favourite puppy that tragically died when they were kids.

Is she still upset for the Sir Ben sweeping?

Don't worry Thewas, if the battle of the foils had been won by LRPP then she would have asked Pete Burling why he lost both starts, why is the boat not faster, how are you coping with the pressure and the weight of the nation, and many other such questions. She is very fair minded and you could hear the empathy in her voice when speaking to Jimmy and Checo. She also knows that Jimmy is as tough as an old boot in these circumstances and Checo admitted his disappointment.

I had hoped that we not have a race decided by falling off the foils, the fact that both boats did and one managed the circumstances better makes the defeat harder.

Hang tight, your team are doing Italy and the competition proud.

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2 hours ago, alphafb552 said:

Generally I think it's beginning to become clear that TR is a faster boat than LR, maybe MUCH faster. Every time they get in front, the basically stretch away significantly.

It's a great testament to team LR that they are managing to keep it as close as it has been to date

Agree. And I would like to say that 90% of what I typed on here yesterday was wrong. This was fun to watch. I still don’t love these boats and style of racing, but it was a good and dramatic day of sailboat racing. AC36 has become like marriage though, where the next day I think “why the hell did I say that yesterday?”

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6 hours ago, JJD said:

Reminded me of when Ray Davies told DB to gybe away from Oracle who we’re almost parked on the last downwind leg of whatever race. 
We  foil gybed away, fell off the foils then lost the race. If we won that race, we would have won the America’s Cip in San Fran. 
Someone will know which race it was. 
 

Anyway, today was not a lottery. Anyone who says that has lost all rights to watch any further racing. There was still far to much racing left for it to be a lottery. 

I think in the only person who harps in about this. For me this was the one that cost us, sure the wind limit race was a bitch but this one pissed me off no end. 

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That was a heck of a couple of races, not sure I'm entirely recovered yet.

TNZ got to really show their speed edge, TNZ did some mistakes, LR did some too, TNZ got more lucky & pulled some fairly subtle but effective match racing moves.

 

Surprised to see nobody comment on PBs silly Race 7 starting luff.

It made Jimmys Race 1 luff look reasoned & deserving, TNZ were too slow & too far to leeward for that.

 

But then a combo of good match-racing, a bit of surviving in/just out of the gas & a bit of luck generated the split which with the help of a couple of lifts gave TNZ the lead, then a good couple of short tacks to cement it, a lot of people would have built when LR did their short downspeed tack back to boundary but PB followed & forced LR to eat dirty air.

From there they were able to really stretch their legs for the win.

 

As I said before its been LRs impeccable covering/leebows that have kept them in front.

We've seen flashes of TNZ catching when they got some clear air but previously LR has been able to re-establish cover/leebow, not this time.

 

But that race should have been abandoned.

Precedent was set (I think in AM v Basher Semi) when a race was abandoned because the wind shifted to nearly a lay & the Committee blew it up, I believe by that standard they should have this time also.

 

That Race 8 gybe, someone mentioned it was reminicent of one of the SF ones and yes, I thought it seemed a bit familiar :wacko:

LR had got soft on the starboard lay & had to make a low-speed tack with short build before the mark.

TNZ was a bit tight on the lay but accelerated better round the mark into a clean gybe & PB found a nice soak on the boundary.

At the point of the gybe both boats were going nearly right across the course but LR had just got up to 29kt & TNZ would probably not have rolled them, TNZ advantage is when they can sail in clear air so can understand the gybe but oof when I saw them turning down it didn't look good.

TNZ got lucky that they were able to get going with only a couple of back & forths and then that LR dropped at the top mark where it was soft.

I think Jimmys call to go for the top mark in displacement was not the best, the wing cats could pull that off but not the JC75s.

FB was pretty unconvinced about it but didn't argue the point.

 

Really incredible seeing one boat doing up to 4* windspeed while the other can be struggling along in the mid single-digits only a few meters away.

Doing 14kt in 7 true is understandable to my non-foiling brain but 28-30 seems almost obscene :blink:

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this is the nail biting stuff we've waited to see. We'd all complain it was too boring if one team dominated every race start to finish.

Light again tomorrow so my next question is will we see Jimmy in 2025... he did put up a fight so it helped the odds on the TAB here go up to 1.52 so i quickly grabbed those on Sat night. Thanks Timmy.

 

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Why do the teams not leave both foils in the water on marginal wind speed tacks to stay on the foils, is there too much drag? Clearly to my eye both teams splashed at the moment they lifted the windward foil. 

Clearly they can sail that way if you watch the pinching slow modes at the start line. 

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3 hours ago, strider470 said:

Mate, thanks for your message of extreme sportmanship, but you lost an America's Cup for something like that, and it wouldn't have been fair. I felt for the Kiwis at the time, since I was supporting ETNZ. This is sailing, and wind drops can happen. Not anybody fault. It is what it is! It will be bettter tomorrow. Luck comes and goes. Go Luna!!!!

I wish you sailed at my club. You and I, would be friends. 

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19 minutes ago, hoom said:

 

Surprised to see nobody comment on PBs silly Race 7 starting luff.

It made Jimmys Race 1 luff look reasoned & deserving, TNZ were too slow & too far to leeward for that.

 

 

Because they already said enough about Jimmy's and don't want to prove they're dicks. Those of us that thought Jimmy's was worth a shot, can't be bothered.

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25 minutes ago, hoom said:

 

I think Jimmys call to go for the top mark in displacement was not the best, the wing cats could pull that off but not the JC75s.

FB was pretty unconvinced about it but didn't argue the point.

 

:blink:

I didn't either, now we all know.

This is a new game.

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4 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Another CoR attempt to change the rules/status quo - I agree rh3000, questioning the ethics of Iain Murray or suggesting bias in coverage is a real 'spit the dummy' move and unlikely to win them any friends anywhere, never mind amongst the organisers.

Somewhat reminiscent of the Qingdao Olympic Regatta (2008) when after a capsize which irreparably damaged their boat just before the Medal Race the Dames were lent another boat by the Croatian team and went on to win gold. The Italians (that's the Olympic Committee not the sailors) complained to CAS. In the meantime the Croatians were awarded the Olympics' highest honour, the Pierre de Coubertin Medal

Was very classy action by the Croatians.

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So, after all this talk about Formula 1 style boat racing folks were ready for some serious porn for the speed addict. Instead they took turns in their inability to perform because they couldn't get it up...


In all seriousness, this is so fucking funny! It reminded me of the Monty Python soccer match. I don't even want to know how much money they spent on a boat that is reaching back and forth between (and beyond) the boundaries of the course because it can't gain enough speed to go downwind... I mean, think about it. The only thing that would have made it even more hilarious would have involved ETNZ falling off the rails once again and both had to wait until one of them picked up again. This was the most entertaining race so far (from what I have seen of it) but all for the wrong reasons. Still, I have been laughing my ass off.  

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1 hour ago, danstanford said:

Why do the teams not leave both foils in the water on marginal wind speed tacks to stay on the foils, is there too much drag? Clearly to my eye both teams splashed at the moment they lifted the windward foil. 

Clearly they can sail that way if you watch the pinching slow modes at the start line. 

That's a good question. I think the start pinching is totally different. Then they have enough power and want to go as slow or as high they can. So they like the extra drag and less leeway the windward foil brings.

When on the edge of foiling all the extra drag is very bad. It may help to have more area from the other foil, but probably it can't be loaded much after the tack is completed. You need to generate rating moment also and thus have much higher load on leeward foil.

If you add load to the windward foil you also need to add to leeward foil. Once you foil the sum is naturally equal to weight of the boat.

So I think having two foils helps keeping up on foils only when you are not loading sails or when you don't generate enough righting moment to load the leeward foil enough. Even then you must consider the extra drag, but it is impossible to tack or jibe with just one foil.

It seems to be the critical moment when the windward foil is lifted. It has vertical speed through water and could easily generate negative lift. Also it has ballast that is lifted up, which pushes the hull down. So you need more lift and more heeling moment to compensate the movement of the foil than you do when the foil is up. Teams have clearly slowed down the lifting of the foil.

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11 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Nothing wrong with the rules at all. If someone is trying to legally keep out of your way it is grossly unfair to prevent them from doing so. LRPP put themselves there well aware of the rules which applied. INEOS simply out-played them.

Please explain how you would apply your 'amended' version?

Quite simply remove rule 16.1.  The ROW boat should have the ROW to sail where they please. The GW boat should have the onus of keeping clear.   

Remember, back in 2017 there were specific rules that ALLOWED for hunting!!!  It was written into the rules that you were allowed to bear away upto 90° off true wind for the sole purpose of engaging your opponent.   Hunting and forcing penalties was encouraged. 

Now, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.  Now you can't hunt. Okay.  But, also as the ROW vessel you can't even sail your proper course sometimes!  Its not right. 

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15 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

In all seriousness, this is so fucking funny! It reminded me of the Monty Python soccer match. I don't even want to know how much money they spent on a boat that is reaching back and forth between (and beyond) the boundaries of the course because it can't gain enough speed to go downwind... I mean, think about it. The only thing that would have made it even more hilarious would have involved ETNZ falling off the rails once again and both had to wait until one of them picked up again. This was the most entertaining race so far (from what I have seen of it) but all for the wrong reasons. Still, I have been laughing my ass off.  

Wait until you see a dinghy race! You wouldn't believe it, those things actually fall over, sometimes the crew even have to swim to get back to the boat. Even more incredible, sometimes *all* the boats in the race fall over, and the winner is the boat that fell over least often. Hilarious!

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19 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

I don't even want to know how much money they spent on a boat that is reaching back and forth between (and beyond) the boundaries of the course because it can't gain enough speed to go downwind... I mean, think about it.

That "can't get enough speed" boat was getting BSP of twice the wind speed in displacement mode.  I'm pretty sure it could have taken that speed down wind and still beaten a lot of displacement boats flying spinnakers.

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4 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg9 said:

Quite simply remove rule 16.1.  The ROW boat should have the ROW to sail where they please. The GW boat should have the onus of keeping clear. 

That's rather impossible. You can't go anywhere near the ROW boat or allow it to come near, if ROW has no limitations.

In the case of INEOS vs. LR, Jimmy just missed it. He should have sailed higher before the tack. He knew that INEOS needs to tack very soon and LR was also too early and got OCS. By pinching before INEOS tack, they would have prevented INEOS from tacking (or INEOS would have got a penalty) and probably also killed the ~1 s they were OCS. Or forced INEOS to be OCS, if they could keep clear after the tack.

 

But it is clearly not easy at all at those speeds. It looks like they make rookie mistakes, but of course they are as good as it gets with those boats.

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8 minutes ago, sfigone said:

That "can't get enough speed" boat was getting BSP of twice the wind speed in displacement mode. 

It's not really true displacement mode. Foil takes most of the displacement, not just all of it, and all the heeling moment.