Jump to content

AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Of tangential relevance but perhaps amusing to those who remember her, Marian Martin, without a by-your-leave, once lifted one of my better-written posts verbatim and passed it off as hers in her newsletter. I was then vehemently accused on SAAC by multiple people of passing off her content as my own. After a while, she reluctantly fessed up.

I still miss her.

She had to have been Bertarelli's biological mother with her unwavering almost-maternal protectiveness of Alignhi in the face of overwhelming evidence exposing Bertarelli's shenanigans...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 7.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

And just to add to that record, Mozzy Sails contacted me direct to ask permission to use my photos and even offered to purchase some, by way of compensation. I am more than happy to contribute an

Just for the record, I contacted @erdb @MaxHugen @doroxand @weta27asked if they were happy me using images or graphs etc. I always try to credit them in the video and in the description as agreed.  I

I want to thank all the amazing people I had the pleasure to meet here on Sailing Anarchy during this America's Cup. It's a huge list. Brits, Irish, Kiwis, fellow Italians, French, Dutch, Americans, C

Posted Images

2 hours ago, mako23 said:

One undeniable fact is that PB is constantly losing to JS in the starts.  The fact that ETNZ won both races yesterday seems to gloss over that fact. If ETNZ had lost both races yesterday, the punters on this forum would be significantly less forgiving . 

Well, like Russell Coutts said “if you had the choice between winning the start and winning the finish, you’d take winning the finish” 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Its the "same or lower" speed part that makes it a penalty really, if you un wind a mark rounding and re round you're not constrained in how fast you can do it, but its a pedantic point (sorry); I do agree that you need that if you allow re entry to prevent professional fouls, and that there is room for improvement in the penalty stakes.

 

Then why the heck would you sail outside the boundary in the first place?
Presumably the reason to do so, as LR did, was to try and get up on foils. So by definition she did not have enough BS to achieve flight. So you sail off the course to get up on the foils, tack, sail back to where you broke the plane, drop below foiling speed and?????

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Blitzkrieg9 said:

I watched some races from the 90s i think and the crew were smoking cigarettes and flicking the butts overboard during the race. The commentators were even laughing about it. Different times. 

No, that was a joke about some of the less serious challengers, back in the 12Meter days. They were easier to beat, match racing because you could tell when they were going to tack... the crew flipped their cigarettes over the side in unison.

- DSK

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Oh yes. I think it is so sad SDYC decided to take a gun to that knife fight. It could have been fantastic.

Perhaps, but the DoG challenge was a bit of a dick move.

If Fays lawyers were smart enough to figure out they could challenge, they should have been smart enough to figure out that DC could defend in whatever the fuck he wanted.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

That would be awesome. Back before digital brand marketing consultants. I can imagine the marketing meeting of the 1977 French team. “What are we going to call it?”  “How about... France?”

And people don't think that Sir Thomas Lipton didn't market the heck out of his runs at the AC?

th-1.jpeg

th-3.jpeg

th-4.jpeg

th-2.jpeg

th.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

No, that was a joke about some of the less serious challengers, back in the 12Meter days. They were easier to beat, match racing because you could tell when they were going to tack... the crew flipped their cigarettes over the side in unison.

- DSK

The Italian COR Azzurra  in 1987 if I remember correctly. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, kenergy said:

Wasnt DC chugging a few beers back onboard in the last race of the DOG match? 

He must of had a few, because at the press conference he made some unforgettable comments. Some of which was to haunt him when looking for sponsorship.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gut feeling is they might get one race in today, but it’ll be light and flukey. LR maybe praying for racing tho as the forecast for the rest of the week is that it could hit NZs sweet spot. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, laser 173312 said:

The Italian COR Azzurra  in 1987 if I remember correctly. 

If your smoking cigarettes during racing .....you have to wonder how serious the challenger is in regards to winning the cup. A small budget challenger is going to chew through a couple of million. It’s kinda disrespectful to the money spent. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, laser 173312 said:

The Italian COR Azzurra  in 1987 if I remember correctly. 

That very team reached the LVC semifinals in 1983 at their first attempt. (first Italian challenger ever)

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, mako23 said:

If your smoking cigarettes during racing .....you have to wonder how serious the challenger is in regards to winning the cup. A small budget challenger is going to chew through a couple of million. It’s kinda disrespectful to the money spent. 

Smoking was all the rage in the 80’s. Anyone who was anyone smoked. You were almost looked at as different if you didn’t. If you didn’t smoke, you weren’t normal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Forourselves said:

Smoking was all the rage in the 80’s. Anyone who was anyone smoked. You were almost looked at as different if you didn’t. If you didn’t smoke, you weren’t normal.

I still remember in the 90s after going out to a pub or disco, you had to put your clothes outside the house for the smoking smell!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Yes! Sperrys, zinc oxide, tidy white shorts, spinnakers. Boats with names like Freedom, Courageous, Australia, France. 

Personally I would not mind this reversion.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I still remember in the 90s after going out to a pub or disco, you had to put your clothes outside the house for the smoking smell!

I quit 35 years ago, still miss it...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, Mariner said:

Does that enormous ad at the top of all these pages get on anyone elses nerves?  Seems way too big and obnoxious.

Beauty boat though I know.

Ad blocker if it is too annoying (it is).

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Thewas said:

Too much chatting already. What's the forecast for today? (only locals allowed)

Touch in go....might be lucky, but expecting delays from the forecast....East Tamaki (work) is dead calm at the moment, plenty of cloud cover...they are expecting a low to come through later tonight, so if it was early we might be fine.

 

image.png.9144a18f387eb440250a623377e420d5.png

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the Virtual Eye it seems there was about 7 knots when LR dropped. It took almost 9 knots for TR to get up. LR reached twice about 16 knots before TR rounded the windward mark. When they got up it was just a bit over 7 knots and they got up at about 17 knots. So they were really close while still leading. It would have been an interesting race, had LR got up before TR caught them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, mako23 said:

He must of had a few, because at the press conference he made some unforgettable comments. Some of which was to haunt him when looking for sponsorship.

Sure did mate, he had a chance at redemption with Paul Holmes, but famously chose to walk off

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/holmes-the-first-episode-1989

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Oh yes. I think it is so sad SDYC decided to take a gun to that knife fight. It could have been fantastic.

A hostile challenge gets the defense it deserves.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, loneshark64 said:

Yes! Sperrys, zinc oxide, tidy white shorts, spinnakers. Boats with names like Freedom, Courageous, Australia, France. 

Defiant, Patriot - didn't help much this cycle;)

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Sure did mate, he had a chance at redemption with Paul Holmes, but famously chose to walk off

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/holmes-the-first-episode-1989

Old Dennis was our first introduction of a big bad bogey man in the AC. However in many ways he was more bark than bite. He’s not to blame for the DOG match, we played with the rules and they did the same to us.

later on we found that there were more powerful and ruthless players than Dennis.  In the end he was a colourful character who played a large part in the rich tapestry of the cups history.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thewas said:

Too much chatting already. What's the forecast for today? (only locals allowed)

It's very very light here now - just drove over the bridge - humidity high, cloud cover - does not make much likely - it depends, just as ONTOIT says above, if the south westerly builds into anything later.  It looks very very light out there to me - my guess, and I'm wrong more than right :rolleyes:,  is no racing today

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, southseasbill said:

If the sou'wester arrives late, no racing.

There’s not even a sparrows fart of wind where I’m living in AKL

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, chocoa said:

Massive respect for the grinders on both boats for leaving it all on the handles in that epic second race.

Maybe that was the difference. Be interesting so see the power output of both teams

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

Sure did mate, he had a chance at redemption with Paul Holmes, but famously chose to walk off

https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/holmes-the-first-episode-1989

Paul Holmes cringe worthy first show cheap shot when he ambushed DC on the telly here in the home of the Cup.

Dennis should have clocked the little fucking gnome.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, trig42 said:

7 knot NW currently at Bean Rock.

Hopefully it continues to swing round to the SW and build a knot or three.

That's what is expected to happen!

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

Probably some pressure from ACE

Let the spectators on the land see a race......sounds like a reasonable request but I guess the conditions have to be right. Let's hope the wind arrives.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if a member of the crews will have the youtube feed commentary piped through their headsets.

Freddie Carr in the chopper provides excellent wind-spotting from further up and down the course which would be valuable to the tacticians...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

And people don't think that Sir Thomas Lipton didn't market the heck out of his runs at the AC?

th-1.jpeg

th-3.jpeg

th-4.jpeg

th-2.jpeg

th.jpeg

And they're still doing it.  I remember seeing the ad on TV in I think 2011 when I was living in SF.
"Sir Thomas Lipton Tea... America's cup, America's cup, America's cup of tea."  I had to chuckle, because finding a good cup of tea in America is even harder than finding a good cup of coffee.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Thewas said:

I quit 15 minutes ago, already missing it ...

Bonne chance, I found quitting to be a truly horrible experience.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, toad said:

I’m not into the whole nationalism thing. NZ didnt win anything, 4 men did.

We are told lots of times........."We are a team of 5 million"

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Well, like Russell Coutts said “if you had the choice between winning the start and winning the finish, you’d take winning the finish” 

Quite a few on SA prefer to win the start

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, kenergy said:

I've been out a few times now, and the fuckwits who turn up late and squeeze into spots they cant fit into should be sunk. 

Funny and similar situation on Syd harbour one NYE 8 or 10 yrs ago, everyone anchored up safely and early, then this f$ckwit charter skipper** comes in on a 50 footish dark blue beneteau out of CYC.

He proceeds to squeeze in close to us, in spite of mine and others, repeated warnings, he drops his anchor over ours, pulls ours up when his doesn't grab. I got the shits and called the water police on an open VHF channel. A few nods of agreement on the channel. Water police turn up, TAKE COMMAND of the vessel and drive it out of there! Huge cheers from the crowd. Self satisfied smug smile from myself :)

**Don't get me started on these dicks with a bit of paper and no experience.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Course C for today. Cant see them getting under way there. North Head is a huge breeze obstruction. It will be a lottery on that course I think. Hopefully we see at least one race, but that would be optimistic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Indio said:

I wonder if a member of the crews will have the youtube feed commentary piped through their headsets.

Freddie Carr in the chopper provides excellent wind-spotting from further up and down the course which would be valuable to the tacticians...

I thought freddie smashed it in the heli, and just generally as an extra cog in the commentary team. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rumor

The Commodore of the Royal Yacht Squadron James Sheldon and his Associates are in Auckland apparently. Sounds like that they expected a TNZ win today.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Indio said:

I wonder if a member of the crews will have the youtube feed commentary piped through their headsets.

Freddie Carr in the chopper provides excellent wind-spotting from further up and down the course which would be valuable to the tacticians...

Nope. 

Rule 41 (No outside help) 

Refined in the AC to exclude most forms of unsolicited information received by electronic means.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Rumor

The Commodore of the Royal Yacht Squadron James Sheldon and his Associates are in Auckland apparently. Sounds like that they expected a TNZ win today.

RNZYC and their CoR will want the challenge lined up so that it is handed over immediately after the last finish to prevent another challenge getting in first.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Course C a risky call in light wind? That's where the drifting races were, in light patchy wind, back at the beginning of the RRs.

Yesterday's race with falling off the foils was tense but if there's more of them it becomes a farce.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I think they’re anticipating it being the last day and trying to maximise the spectator viewing, knowing racing is a long shot anyway. Worth a try I guess, but looking very borderline.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, marlowe said:

Is Course C a risky call in light wind? That's where the drifting races were, in light patchy wind, back at the beginning of the RRs.

Yesterday's race with falling off the foils was tense but if there's more of them it becomes a farce.

There is no other Option than Course C Regatta Director Iain Murray explained this Morning per NZ Herald. Because of the Cloud Cover the land doesn't heat up fast enough to generate a Northeasterly sea breeze.

So, they have to wait for the south-westerlies to come in. Murray sounds confident he'll get at least one Race off. It is a matter when not if the SW arrive. If it's before 5pm he'll schedule two Races, if it is well beyond 5pm we will only get one race.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have sailed that part of the harbour extensively like plenty of others here, trust me if there is any breeze today there will be breeze there. However there can also be transition zones. If its say, 10kts it will be an awesome course, it has tidal movement (lots) back  eddies, and ultra shifty breeze

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Personally, I think they’re anticipating it being the last day and trying to maximise the spectator viewing, knowing racing is a long shot anyway. Worth a try I guess, but looking very borderline.

The Wind on the other Courses are too unstable. Murray for once did the right thing here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The Wind on the other Courses are too unstable. Murray for once did the right thing here.

Isn't course C the  most unstable?

Link to post
Share on other sites

So it seems ETNZ has the faster boat, so mistakes might cost a leg but don't necessarily cost the race. Not so for LR, they need to get in front then sail a perfect race.

Yesterday before they fell off foils was getting really interesting, ETNZ sailed into a crappy spot but with momentum, it would have been great to see the next cross if it hadn't dropped of foils. LR took a lot out of the ENTZ lead once it got foiling again.

For LR, the start is critical. For ETNZ it's a nice–to–have. As long as Burling doesn't stuff it up, they're still in the race. That's gotta take a lot of pressure off, vice versa for Spithill.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Isn't course C the  most unstable?

Course C is designed for either SW or SE Wind Direction. How do you set up a proper Course on Course A or E with that Wind Direction he expects to happen today? Impossible to do!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Course C is designed for either SW or SE Wind Direction. How do you set up a proper Course on Course A with that Wind Direction he expects to happen today. Impossible to do!

I don't know. They always say the external courses are used when there is little wind. I'm not a local.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, dogwatch said:

 

I still miss her.

B) now you're really, but really sounding like an old fart, but then ain't we all :P

 

to the choco guy wondering if she was paid by evil Ernie : don't think so, but she did have a bit of a penchant for him certainly after having had some bacon butties offered to her by evil ernie's missus, that lovely miss britanistan, Marian thought they (the bacon sarnies) were rather excellent ... made a note of that then and it still works, one can win over any decent royalty abiding britanistani by offering him/her a decent bacon sarnie

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I don't know. They always say the external courses are used when there is little wind. I'm not a local.

No appreciable sea breeze today with the cloud. Course C is best for a Sou'wester coming down the harbour.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Another day of not much breeze.! And if the Kiwis win both races today we'll have never gotten to see TR in full flight in 20 Knots. Real shame after seeing how fast they were able to go in the light. Let's hope Luna Rossa win at least one race today? Not sure it will matter the Kiwis are tacking far better than they did at the beginning. Lots of smiles on the crew of TR yesterday, they made some changes to the clew of the main and Nathan Out was talking about how much camber they had which surprised him and it was clear how much faster they were travelling. If the smiles are anything to go by the Kiwi boys believe they have this one locked away.!  :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, southseasbill said:

No appreciable sea breeze today with the cloud. Course C is best for a Sou'wester coming down the harbour.

You pretty much nailed it!

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Mozzy Sails said:

I thought freddie smashed it in the heli, and just generally as an extra cog in the commentary team. 

Freddie would be a major improvement to any commentary team. Apart from the fact he knows his stuff, he has a wicked sense of humour which comes through in some of his off-the-cuff comments..And I love and look forward to his lunch-time sessions with Matt.

Freddie and Shirley in the same commentary team is priceless.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, RobG said:

So it seems ETNZ has the faster boat, so mistakes might cost a leg but don't necessarily cost the race. Not so for LR, they need to get in front then sail a perfect race.

Yesterday before they fell off foils was getting really interesting, ETNZ sailed into a crappy spot but with momentum, it would have been great to see the next cross if it hadn't dropped of foils. LR took a lot out of the ENTZ lead once it got foiling again.

For LR, the start is critical. For ETNZ it's a nice–to–have. As long as Burling doesn't stuff it up, they're still in the race. That's gotta take a lot of pressure off, vice versa for Spithill.

A faster boat doesn't necessarily mean you gonna win. Today is about windshifts more than anything else. Luna Rossa lost a Race against INEOS despite the Brits having a broken cunningham. When it's this shifty and puffy like it can be on Course C even if you have a slower boat you can still win. It's Sibellos and Tuke's Decisions that will matter today.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Classic Jimmy right after the start of race 8. "Aero mode boys"... and the crew all duck down, except the trimmer who crouches for a second, looks around then stands back up. :D (at 1hr 14 min 56 seconds if the vid doesn't open at the right spot)

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Considered the difference of boat speed we can appreciate Jimmy's amazing skills, as good as he may be Pete behaved like a rookie up to now face to him.

Fuck me.  Sample size of 8 - 5:3 is not statistically significant.  I know we all want to talk about starting genius,  better positioning, timing etc. but it's all just probabilistic noise (luck) influenced by the weather and the boat design choices.  Tell yourself whatever you like, but PB is doing fine.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Considered the difference of boat speed we can appreciate Jimmy's amazing skills, as good as he may be Pete behaved like a rookie up to now face to him.

Jimmy is a trained, experienced match racer. Pete isn’t. You’d expect Jimmy to have an edge on him. Given Jimmy’s experience, he’s made a shit load of mistakes both in the pre start and during racing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

A faster boat doesn't necessarily mean you gonna win. Today is about windshifts more than anything else. Luna Rossa lost a Race against INEOS despite the Brits having a broken cunningham. When it's this shifty and puffy like it can be on Course C even if you have a slower boat you can still win. It's Sibellos and Tuke's Decisions that will matter today.

Yes of course, but being faster means that when you drop behind, you can come back (as ETNZ have done), but not if you're slower like LR, which hasn't come from behind yet against ENTZ. It did manage to make up a lot of ground yesterday, but it's difficult to know if that was different breeze or not. LR was certainly hammered by penalties, did anyone ask the umpires to explain how the penalties are calculated? is it say 50m from the max lead while out of bounds? And how long do they have, since LR seemed to cop an additional penalty for taking too long to drop back?

It makes no difference to the result, just nice to know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Considered the difference of boat speed we can appreciate Jimmy's amazing skills, as good as he may be Pete behaved like a rookie up to now face to him.

Uh?  Were you watching the starts yesterday?  They looked fairly even to me.  Especially the second start.  I believe ETNZ deliberately went for that position to windward.  These boats aren't normal match racing boats by any stretch and their ability to carve up and disturb the airflow seems a lot different to any other boats.  So if you can get to windward between you and your opponent at the start, time it right you can carve some big holes in the wind.  Pete was probably a second from being a super hero rather than being even at that second start.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, RobG said:

is it say 50m from the max lead while out of bounds? And how long do they have, since LR seemed to cop an additional penalty for taking too long to drop back?

 

You can't clear a penalty while you are out of bounds.  If you could why bother having a course boundary at all!

I think they copped the additional penalty because they made no attempt to come back onto the course proper.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Rumor

The Commodore of the Royal Yacht Squadron James Sheldon and his Associates are in Auckland apparently. Sounds like that they expected a TNZ win today.

Need a spotter on the ETNZ / RNZYS boat to see where the RYS bodies are. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Regular Swimmer said:

Fuck me.  Sample size of 8 - 5:3 is not statistically significant.  I know we all want to talk about starting genius,  better positioning, timing etc. but it's all just probabilistic noise (luck) influenced by the weather and the boat design choices.  Tell yourself whatever you like, but PB is doing fine.

I made a mistake, it was to forget to mention Francesco Bruni, Jimmy and him work as a perfect team, they most often mystified Pete, and it's not finished.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Oh yes. I think it is so sad SDYC decided to take a gun to that knife fight. It could have been fantastic.

It could have also been fantastic to have the dozen or so other challengers that were lined up to race.  Fay chose to be an ass.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not in the camp that luck played a part in LR's defeat in the second race.  ETNZ fell off the foils doing a gybe  manoeuvre by the book however got caught out by the wash created by both boats.  You can't practice or even identify that when you are training against a motorised tender.  LR was in a little bit of trouble at that point as well with trimming their jib.

When LR fell off their foils they were on their own and basically made an error.  ETNZ when it got to the same spot in the same wind conditions PLUS another boat in the vicinity displayed a masterclass in how to stay on your foils in those conditions.

So in my opinion luck played no part. 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I made a mistake, it was to forget to mention Francesco Bruni, Jimmy and him work as a perfect team, they most often mystified Pete, and it's not finished.

I don't think they did yesterday.  Bruni was not synced at all.  He seemed rattled.  Which of the two has ultimate command?  

Link to post
Share on other sites