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AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I think by mid next week the toy boxes of each team will be well and truly empty.

No actually I think the toys will be being dreamt about until AC37.
And little tweaks all through the racing, maybe not to the equipment but sailing technique, strategy, CZs etc. 

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And just to add to that record, Mozzy Sails contacted me direct to ask permission to use my photos and even offered to purchase some, by way of compensation. I am more than happy to contribute an

Just for the record, I contacted @erdb @MaxHugen @doroxand @weta27asked if they were happy me using images or graphs etc. I always try to credit them in the video and in the description as agreed.  I

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16 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

The expected start has shifted, there is a time link so I would expect that to shift with it. If it said SCHEDULED START, that would be different. Common (I know, not that common) sense would dictate this as the delay will have the potential of placing the racing in a different weather pattern. The teams should be given the opportunity to select equipment as such and pushing the declaration period back would allow this.

Yeah, I saw the link regarding postponement after I posted that. 

Thank goodness for once that common sense seems to have prevailed.

It stated that the first weekend had been postponed, but I didn't see anywhere if it means it's postponed to the following weekend or only to the day after lockdown is lifted 

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2 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Confirmed just now, no Racing until at least March 10th

and to add to that ideally not until March 13 if the COR and ACR can agree

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18 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

No actually I think the toys will be being dreamt about until AC37.
And little tweaks all through the racing, maybe not to the equipment but sailing technique, strategy, CZs etc. 

Oh I suspect that all teams will have a bunch of toys on the drawing board still that they will want to use in the next cycle.

But in terms of toys that have been manufactured, they have got all they are going to have. 

Expect them to have all of these on their boats when you next see them on the water since there is now no chance of copying.

Pie warmers maybe? :D

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America’s Cup Event Ltd Chair, Tina Symmans said, “As ACE has always said that it wishes to hold as much of the racing under Level 1 restrictions as possible. But to be prudent, ACE will apply for an exemption to race under Level 3 restrictions so as to keep as many options open as possible. However, racing will not occur before at least Wednesday 10th March.”

So ACE is applying for exemption to race under level 3, per non saper né leggere né scrivere, just in case they decide to lose the honour?

Coherence first. :D

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If my reading of the rules is correct then we could see both teams out this week trying out new toys and perfecting handling. Boats would need to be in measurement configuration Friday evening (?). The big spanner in the works will be the weather forecast for next Wednesday onwards, will it be lighter or heavier ?

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1 hour ago, sfigone said:

Wrong. As the umpire points out, LR is still free to change course, but that just have to allow the other boat to keep clear. So in this case LR was able to come up and clear the pin, but they also had to bear away to avoid hitting Ineos. Neither change of course broke 16 because ultimately Ineos did keep clear.

I posted some time ago that this enforcement of 16 would kill dial downs, but i was wrong, as 16 allows ROW boat to alter choose so long as KC boat can then also do something to keep clear.

If the umpires can use the technology to tell by the smallest margin whether the boats are going to hit each other, and they are making calls on that basis. Then I fear we might see an almighty crash. 

In the Prada Cup there was the dowind cross on port by INEOS missing LR by around a boat length at a collision speed of close to 80 knots.  Then the two starting incidents with INEOS barging on the inner distance mark in one race and tacking in LR's water in the last race.

Jimmy had the faster boat vs INEOS and so, against his normal instincts, let Ben bully him a bit. The last thing he needed was major damage, like happened to AM in the semis, before meeting ETNZ. 

Now it is the final and both boats have everything to lose if they have major damage.

Capsizes can be survived, as two of the boats have proven. But they can just as easily be deadly. 

Gear failure can lose a race. Surprisingly there has been very little evident with the AC75's up to now despite some pretty testing conditions. ETNZ before Christmas had problems with a foil lift I remember as well as Prada racing without the boundary software and of course the cunningham on INEOS.

This is a great testament to the designers, the engineers and the crews considering the boats are so innovative, complex and highly loaded travelling at mad speeds.

I think there is talk of bringing back the 15 minute time out in the 30 minutes or so before the start signal which would be a great call if both teams agree. This potentially saves a race if on the water repairs can be made in time. 

Otherwise gear failure would normally only knock out one race. 

A collision however would be much more challenging with the possibility that one or both boats could be out for good, as well as the safety of the crew. 

Either ETNZ holding onto the Cup by default if neither boat can complete the necessary 7 wins, or one of the boats racing solo would be a major disappointment to say the least. 

So I do hope the skills of the crews continue to keep them apart and they do not feel forced to push further than necessary. 

The racing so far has been far closer with more match racing than anyone predicted. 

The boats are spectacular.

Whatever the final result, we have at least 7 races to look forward to and the boats will be plenty close plenty of times, even just in the prestarts and on the first beat.

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1 minute ago, Woolfy said:

If my reading of the rules is correct then we could see both teams out this week trying out new toys and perfecting handling. Boats would need to be in measurement configuration Friday evening (?). The big spanner in the works will be the weather forecast for next Wednesday onwards, will it be lighter or heavier ?

I'm not sure that the measurement day is automatically postponed without mutual consent. But I think they'll agree to do that.

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1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

, Iplore and porthos

A court will have to harmonize those provisions so that they all have effect and are not surplusage.

It would be easier and simpler and a lot cheaper if the CoR and Defendant agreed now BEFORE racing started to refine the language so that their mutual agreed intent is clear.

he way to do that is that the match has to start in March (per the Protocol -- the match will have taken place in March as required), but can continue beyond March if necessary (which gives effect to the provision in the RSS and Match Conditions) until someone gets 7 points as in the protocol. 

‐--‐-----------------‐----------------------------------------

So let's hope, to spare us and the whole world, that however the two teams want to play it, they get it all sorted and agreed this coming week before the Match starts.

There will no doubt be some to and frowing needed between the teams, ACE, IM, the City, the govt and the harbour master, even the team principles. 

In the end we don't want to be revisiting the discussions above once the match has started. It would create undue stress and distraction for the helmsman and crews. And a nasty unseemly spat would once again turn off some of the audience and sponsors. 

Of course it would be great for us. Plenty to pontificate and talk bollocks about. But I think the racing would suffer.

Above all, we would like to keep Tina´s diplomatic skills out of it.

 

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8 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I'm not sure that the measurement day is automatically postponed without mutual consent. But I think they'll agree to do that.

7. YACHT CONFIGURATION (as published in COR/D Notice # 9)
7.1 Competitors are required to declare confidentially to the Measurement Committee the yacht configuration to be sailed in the Match at least 120 hours before the scheduled start of the first race of the Match.

CORD Notice 39 to Competitors - Amended Match Conditions - Sent.pdf

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I'm ignoring all the fighting, infighting, disputations, and other drama that always accompanies the AC, there's just one thing I want to see: a pass.

The boats are amazing, the racing atrocious. You will have much more enjoyment finding the slowest, smallest singlehander with a fleet and racing the fuck out of it than you will ever have watching this.

Although the boats are amazing...

Don't hold your breath waiting for trickle down tech, though.

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2 minutes ago, accnick said:

7. YACHT CONFIGURATION (as published in COR/D Notice # 9)
7.1 Competitors are required to declare confidentially to the Measurement Committee the yacht configuration to be sailed in the Match at least 120 hours before the scheduled start of the first race of the Match.

So the deadline moves with the first scheduled race. Good to hear. Thanks, I missed that

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Just now, Chimera said:

........

Don't hold your breath waiting for trickle down tech, though.

There is pre trickle down already.
And major trickle down coming off designers drawing programs now big fast cruising boats with twin skins.

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3 minutes ago, accnick said:

7. YACHT CONFIGURATION (as published in COR/D Notice # 9)
7.1 Competitors are required to declare confidentially to the Measurement Committee the yacht configuration to be sailed in the Match at least 120 hours before the scheduled start of the first race of the Match.

CORD Notice 39 to Competitors - Amended Match Conditions - Sent.pdf

Well that takes care of the common sense I spoke about. Hopefully that can be amended.

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@winchfodder closing speeds of 80knots?  With one boat relative to the other traveling at max 30knots there is plenty of time.  Best way is not to try and hit them and protest, instead of trying to make it look like you would have hit them and then protesting?

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6 minutes ago, sailman said:

 Did LR agree to the delay?

For consistency, I hope not.  The rules are the rules and they want to race.  Unless it's forecast to be windy against a stronger boat, in which case don't worry about the rules ... :P

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3 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

There is pre trickle down already.
And major trickle down coming off designers drawing programs now big fast cruising boats with twin skins.

We shall see.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have AC type foils on my Sunfish, but I don't think many cruisers would opt to pay double for their sails, not to mention the control mechanisms. 

If I were still a boat builder nothings would make me happier than being able to charge double for AC tech.

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12 minutes ago, strider470 said:

So the deadline moves with the first scheduled race. Good to hear. Thanks, I missed that

Mmmmm, the schedule according to which document? I read that the other way.

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Just now, NSP said:

For consistency, I hope not.  The rules are the rules and they want to race.  Unless it's forecast to be windy against a stronger boat, in which case don't worry about the rules ... :P

Not the same situation, I daresay, since the races haven't started yet. ACE in contrast are asking exemption to race on  level 3. As a precaution  they say. So it's no more affecting the honour.

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7 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Not the same situation, I daresay, since the races haven't started yet. ACE in contrast are asking exemption to race on  level 3. As a precaution  they say. So it's no more affecting the honour.

They asked for one last time as well, which is what kicked off the controversy - the NZ government expressed it's concern with racing even in level 2 (which proved to be correct given what we saw on the final weekend with packed boats with zero social distancing) hence the proposal concept was floated.  LR said no and the rest is history - I understand the OTT "honour" barb was directed at LR's refusal to accommodate the government's request and insist on sticking to the race schedule.  And a race is a race, it doesn't matter whether a series has started or not, every race is worth 1 point and equally important. 

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5 minutes ago, NSP said:

They asked for one last time as well, which is what kicked off the controversy - the NZ government expressed it's concern with racing even in level 2 (which proved to be correct given what we saw on the final weekend with packed boats with zero social distancing) hence the proposal concept was floated.  LR said no and the rest is history - I understand the OTT "honour" barb was directed at LR's refusal to accommodate the government's request and insist on sticking to the race schedule.  And a race is a race, it doesn't matter whether a series has started or not, every race is worth 1 point and equally important. 

We already extensively discussed the matter in various threads. I don't agree, sorry.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, strider470 said:

Not the same situation, I daresay, since the races haven't started yet. ACE in contrast are asking exemption to race on  level 3. As a precaution  they say. So it's no more affecting the honour.

ACE could cancel this AC cycle and set a new schedule in April if need be by using   Force majeure  clause. An April event will give both teams a chance to improve their boats and at same time nullify the challengers advantage of being match fit battle hardened by racing two weeks after Prada Cup.

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2 minutes ago, accnick said:

We're talking about what's in the Sailing Instructions, which may govern when the measurement declarations are due and the configuration is locked in.

Saw that, thanks. Regardless, I think LRPP will configure for 10-12 kts wind anyway

 

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9 minutes ago, d2ba said:

ACE could cancel this AC cycle and set a new schedule in April if need by using   Force majeure  clause.

The government can, not ACE. ACE is bound to follow government directions and, if there are not such impediments, the signed protocol and agreements. Unless of course there is a new agreement between the parts.

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Just now, The Advocate said:

That would be the smart money.

Under the circumstances, you might think you would choose the configuration that gave the best performance over the widest range of conditions.  Both teams have smart people who know what that answer is.

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1 minute ago, accnick said:

Under the circumstances, you might think you would choose the configuration that gave the best performance over the widest range of conditions.  Both teams have smart people who know what that answer is.

Or the median of the wind range given that various configurations slew the performance orientation to a wind range you may not get.

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12 minutes ago, NSP said:

They asked for one last time as well, which is what kicked off the controversy - the NZ government expressed it's concern with racing even in level 2 (which proved to be correct given what we saw on the final weekend with packed boats with zero social distancing) hence the proposal concept was floated.  LR said no and the rest is history - I understand the OTT "honour" barb was directed at LR's refusal to accommodate the government's request and insist on sticking to the race schedule.  And a race is a race, it doesn't matter whether a series has started or not, every race is worth 1 point and equally important. 

Given further cases, and what the DG of health and PM would have witnessed in the PC, I would be a little surprised if exemptions are granted. They are under big pressure to contain this outbreak and sports are secondary.  Last week many people were still at the viaduct even with the cup village closed, hundreds of boats out, and mass celebrations with poor social distancing evident. Its not a football match in a stadium where 22 players and a ref are involved and the doors can be closed.  

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14 minutes ago, d2ba said:

ACE could cancel this AC cycle and set a new schedule in April if need be by using   Force majeure  clause. An April event will give both teams a chance to improve their boats and at same time nullify the challengers advantage of being match fit battle hardened by racing two weeks after Prada Cup.

Well that sounds fair... Lol there'll be a magnitude 4 quake from all the LR fans shaking their fists. I wouldn't care, happens when it happens. 

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26 minutes ago, d2ba said:

ACE could cancel this AC cycle and set a new schedule in April if need be by using   Force majeure  clause. An April event will give both teams a chance to improve their boats and at same time nullify the challengers advantage of being match fit battle hardened by racing two weeks after Prada Cup.

There is no force majeure clause in the Protocol.

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29 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

Well that sounds fair... Lol there'll be a magnitude 4 quake from all the LR fans shaking their fists. I wouldn't care, happens when it happens. 

Sorry may bad I meant the downside would be to  nullify the challengers advantage of being match fit battle hardened by racing two weeks after Prada Cup.

Every AC cup cycle the challenger has enjoyed this advantage now nullified by unfortunate events 

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

The government can, not ACE. ACE is bound to follow government directions and, if there are not such impediments, the signed protocol and agreements. Unless of course there is a new agreement between the parts.

Respect dude for realizing the reality of the situation, the NZ govt controls everything any existing contracts are meaningless. 

It’s not just AC racing being affected. Thousand and thousand of contracts between private parties are being voided.  Companies in Auckland can’t have staff working outside Auckland even if there contracts state that they should. Certain deliveries of goods are voided because can’t travel out  of Auckland because of  lockdown. You can’t sue these companies for non delivery?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure

 

 

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8 minutes ago, d2ba said:

http://www.nicdouglass.org/covid-19-shuts-down-americas-cup/

The Arbitration Panel has twice ruled on Force Majeure triggered by COVID-19 and the outcome was the cancellation of the two America’s Cup World Series regattas scheduled for April and June 2020.

That link is fucking useless.

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2 minutes ago, accnick said:

Yes, but that is for losses, damages, and injuries. How it would be applied in this instance isn't  completely clear.

I think the damages could easily be projected for the purposes of the issue and be avoided legally with the clause. Not a lawyer though.

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7 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

I think the damages could easily be projected for the purposes of the issue and be avoided legally with the clause. Not a lawyer though.

Damages who will have legal jurisdiction over this. ?

NYS or NZ courts ?

 

I think if your ever going to use Force Majeure this is the situation 

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1 hour ago, sailman said:

So ACE violates the agreed upon rules.  Did LR agree to the delay?

I don't think ACE violated anything.

Malibu Cindy and her bunch of merry fuckwits have sent Jaffaland to level 3 so racing can't happen without the aforementioned exemption.

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23 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Damages who will have legal jurisdiction over this. ?

NYS or NZ courts ?

 

I think if your ever going to use Force Majeure this is the situation 

I have already commented on that.

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2 hours ago, Chimera said:

Don't hold your breath waiting for trickle down tech, though.

Although I read that Ben Ainslie didn't think the twin skin sail is much better than a single skin, I think it will trickle down through the racing fleets in due course. Contrary to BA, one of the designers (I think) gave his opinion that the twin skin is almost as efficient as the wing sail, and there's also been comment that the AC75 can sail at a better VMG/TWS than the AC50 upwind. Don't know how accurate these remarks are though.

BTW, there was a post about a large yacht that has been designed using the same style of canting foils! Possibly a novelty though?

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21 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

I have already commented on that.

Sorry didn’t know you have copyright on this. I shall wait for my cease and desist letter :P

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19 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Although I read that Ben Ainslie didn't think the twin skin sail is much better than a single skin, I think it will trickle down through the racing fleets in due course. Contrary to BA, one of the designers (I think) gave his opinion that the twin skin is almost as efficient as the wing sail, and there's also been comment that the AC75 can sail at a better VMG/TWS than the AC50 upwind. Don't know how accurate these remarks are though.

BTW, there was a post about a large yacht that has been designed using the same style of canting foils! Possibly a novelty though?

Being a world class skipper doesn’t make one a aerodynamic expert 

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41 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I don't think ACE violated anything.

Malibu Cindy and her bunch of merry fuckwits have sent Jaffaland to level 3 so racing can't happen without the aforementioned exemption.

I suspect this forum has a slight right wing bent to it ........ie tax payers 

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2 hours ago, The Advocate said:

That is not relevant to the event, only the Levels set by the NZ Gov are.

If they wait, go back down a level then get more cases this can go on and on. 

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14 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

If they wait, go back down a level then get more cases this can go on and on. 

Unfortunately it might.

But the Kiwis, like the Aussies, have become quite proficient at reacting to any outbreak very fast, using tracking and testing to identify those infected, and get the "spot fire" under control.

The result is that lockdowns are now geographically limited, and don't last as long as they otherwise might. IMO.

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43 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Although I read that Ben Ainslie didn't think the twin skin sail is much better than a single skin, I think it will trickle down through the racing fleets in due course. Contrary to BA, one of the designers (I think) gave his opinion that the twin skin is almost as efficient as the wing sail, and there's also been comment that the AC75 can sail at a better VMG/TWS than the AC50 upwind. Don't know how accurate these remarks are though.

BTW, there was a post about a large yacht that has been designed using the same style of canting foils! Possibly a novelty though?

I'd like to see an AC75 with a single skinned main...

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7 hours ago, 45Roller said:

race 1 from Bermuda while you're waiting...

 

 

That was certainly not one of Jimmy Spithill's best starts!

IIRC, NZ won almost every race when they reached the first mark in the lead?

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33 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Sorry didn’t know you have copyright on this. I shall wait for my cease and desist letter :P

Was more a point of don't be so lazy and read back a little bit. I am sure there are quite a few people on here that would co sign that letter.

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13 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

That was certainly not one of Jimmy Spithill's best starts!

IIRC, NZ won almost every race when they reached the first mark in the lead?

Not almost every. Every every.

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21 minutes ago, I ride bikes said:

I'd like to see an AC75 with a single skinned main...

It would be an interesting comparison, especially if the mast had a "wing" profile, and the whole setup was tested on an existing AC75 so data could be somewhat accurately compared.

I did attempt to do a bit of a calc comparison, see Twin vs Single Skin Comparison if it's of interest to you. ;)

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2 hours ago, accnick said:

There is no force majeure clause in the Protocol.

Yes there is, but only about parties liabilities.

58.5 None of the Indemnified Parties shall be liable for any losses, damages, injury, loss of profits, loss of prospective profits, consequential damages, penalties or inconvenience, whether direct or indirect, however arising, as a result of the postponement or cancellation of the whole or any part of AC36 due to any event, occurrence or circumstances whatsoever, including acts of God, terrorism, war, government intervention or regulation, public health, environmental conditions, strikes, lock-outs, other industrial acts, lack of funding or support, or any other force majeure circumstance.

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42 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Was more a point of don't be so lazy and read back a little bit. I am sure there are quite a few people on here that would co sign that letter.

Now your just being a prat 

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1 hour ago, mako23 said:

I suspect this forum has a slight right wing bent to it ........ie tax payers 

It would be fair to say that I don't have a huge amount in common with any of NZs political parties.

I am socially and fiscally liberal in that I think people should be able to do what they want with their money and bodies as long as they don't impinge on others.

This means I am diametrically opposed to the lefts desire for taxation.

But I'm also diametrically opposed to the rights social conservatism and voted for cannibis legalisation despite not smoking it myself.

For me the most objectionable aspect of the current government is it's pure incompetence.

Neither John Key nor Helen Clark came close to this level of bumblefuckery.

Those who claims how wonderful Cindy has been in this pandemic should remember that unlike most countries, we have a miniscule population and massive natural borders and despite having previously eliminated the virus, this government's incompetence has allowed it back into the community on more than one occasion.

Worst government since Muldoon.

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16 minutes ago, jaysper said:

It would be fair to say that I don't have a huge amount in common with any of NZs political parties.

I am socially and fiscally liberal in that I think people should be able to do what they want with their money and bodies as long as they don't impinge on others.

This means I am diametrically opposed to the lefts desire for taxation.

But I'm also diametrically opposed to the rights social conservatism and voted for cannibis legalisation despite not smoking it myself.

For me the most objectionable aspect of the current government is it's pure incompetence.

Neither John Key nor Helen Clark came close to this level of bumblefuckery.

Those who claims how wonderful Cindy has been in this pandemic should remember that unlike most countries, we have a miniscule population and massive natural borders and despite having previously eliminated the virus, this government's incompetence has allowed it back into the community on more than one occasion.

Worst government since Muldoon.

The second labour Government under David Lange was also very bad 

Have a look at a Nolan chart you might find it interesting 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

It would be fair to say that I don't have a huge amount in common with any of NZs political parties.

I am socially and fiscally liberal in that I think people should be able to do what they want with their money and bodies as long as they don't impinge on others.

This means I am diametrically opposed to the lefts desire for taxation.

But I'm also diametrically opposed to the rights social conservatism and voted for cannibis legalisation despite not smoking it myself.

For me the most objectionable aspect of the current government is it's pure incompetence.

Neither John Key nor Helen Clark came close to this level of bumblefuckery.

Those who claims how wonderful Cindy has been in this pandemic should remember that unlike most countries, we have a miniscule population and massive natural borders and despite having previously eliminated the virus, this government's incompetence has allowed it back into the community on more than one occasion.

Worst government since Muldoon.

You are not that alone. History tells us that the people wanted Lenin. His legacy is about 60m deaths. Welcome to the socialist revolution. 

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1 hour ago, mako23 said:

The second labour Government under David Lange was also very bad 

Have a look at a Nolan chart you might find it interesting 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart

I think Lange was dealt a shit hand and forced to make the best of it personally.

If you look at the state Muldoon left the country in, I'm not sure who could have done much better.

 

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3 hours ago, mako23 said:

... I read that Ben Ainslie didn't think the twin skin sail is much better than a single skin

Could explain why their boomed main set-up looked like shit and they got thrashed by LRPP, no?  ;-)

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

 

Neither John Key nor Helen Clark came close to this level of bumblefuckery.

Correct. They at least implemented some policy and not just appear at press conferences to talk about kindness. They are going to ban gay conversion therapy so that's useful.Those 3 guys will be grateful. 

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58 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Could explain why their boomed main set-up looked like shit and they got thrashed by LRPP, no?  ;-)

No it explains why the boomless set up they had got binned 

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5 hours ago, mako23 said:

Respect dude for realizing the reality of the situation, the NZ govt controls everything 

Exactly! If the government doesn't want racing, then they can set the level to not allow racing. They can set that level just for the city or maybe even just for the port and the waters.

If the government think it is safe to race then they can set a level or give an exemption.

It is not a decision for LRPP, CoR, ETNZ or ACE to make. Not now. Not before. It's the NZ government that decides.

So there should be no questions about honor, respect or sportsmanship. Not now when ACE has asked for an exemption to L3 and not before when LRPP wanted to race in L2.

You lot go in about the whinging LR team, but all this kerfuffle was only caused by the needless name calling from ACE.

 

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I’m sure nobody wants to jeopardise the health of the public or the teams and therefore I’m not convinced seeking an exemption for racing in L3 is wise, but racing should absolutely go ahead at L2.  If it wasn’t safe the govt guidelines wouldn’t permit sport in L2, which they explicitly do.  The solution to postponing racing is to place the city into a high lockdown level rather than change the definition of a lockdown level.

In England we had/have the ludicrous situation where we had three risk levels - 1. medium, 2. high and 3. very high.  This was dumb for a number of reasons.  Firstly there is (still!) no low risk level so it becomes impossible, even in theory, to ever to return to normality. Secondly the Very High risk level imposed restrictions that were a long way short of a full lockdown (pubs closed but schools open etc), so it was obvious and inevitable that a Level 4 would be needed and then something even harder that the govt never dared label as Level 5 but clearly is. This demoralised people who initially thought L3 would be as bad as it got, only to have L4 and then L5 invented and imposed as things worsened over Christmas. 

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7 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

99.9% of this entire forum. 

Nah, those with balls actually say something rather than word things in a way that they can later make a soft cock denial about making a claim.

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9 hours ago, Gissie said:

You mean much like it would be hypocritical for ETNZ, ACE and all the Prada abusers to now think racing at L2 would be acceptable.

As for sucking it up, I can, but you have all of Ben dick in your mouth so sucking anything else is unlikely for you.

I was referring to all the people that you say are being hypocritical for supporting New Zealand’s position last time it’s the way of the world it’s how fans are. That’s what I was saying you had to suck up, people have opinions and we all have to accept them. You don’t have to admire with it but you can’t silence them. 
as for the personal insult?  not really any need for it and if you’re going to do it try bit bloody harder. 

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1 minute ago, The Advocate said:

Nah, those with balls actually say something rather than word things in a way that they can later make a soft cock denial about making a claim.

Oh fuck off, this place is built on supposition, guess work and rumour. You know as much as I do, fuck all. So don’t take the moral high ground that Everything you are writing is the Gospel truth

I think  a boat has this, I think this sailor is better than this person, I think that team has more money, I think this is unfair, I think the boat has done 62 kn, I think this boat sucks up wind, I think that boat has herbie, 

it’s been  like it forever. 

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