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AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


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2 minutes ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

But if there is an Australian challenge, and they certainly have enough talent to mount one, that may be enough to lure Glenn away.

 

I am not sure we have the shore talent anymore.

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And just to add to that record, Mozzy Sails contacted me direct to ask permission to use my photos and even offered to purchase some, by way of compensation. I am more than happy to contribute an

Just for the record, I contacted @erdb @MaxHugen @doroxand @weta27asked if they were happy me using images or graphs etc. I always try to credit them in the video and in the description as agreed.  I

I want to thank all the amazing people I had the pleasure to meet here on Sailing Anarchy during this America's Cup. It's a huge list. Brits, Irish, Kiwis, fellow Italians, French, Dutch, Americans, C

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20 minutes ago, Indio said:

Dan Bernasconi will be the most wanted designer on the planet now. Dalton knows this and will have ensured that they can retain him. Dan's major reasons for staying with ETNZ are tha same as Glen Ashby's: he likes the freedom, encouragement and support to think outside the circle at ETNZ, the seamless interaction with the sailors, the environment, etc..He was offered a blank sheet and cheque to write his own job spec and numbers after BDA but he politely declined..

He even has that look of a genius about him :D. Loved his comment at the presser that he was hoping they'd be racing today with winds expected to be in the high teens so they can see what Te Rehutai was capable of under real racing conditions..

Dan Bernasconi will stay I am pretty sure of that. I read an Interview with "TheTimes" in the UK before the AC Match started that he will stay as long as ETNZ wants him.

Glenn Ashby is a different subject. First of all he is a Sailor and not a Designer and in case you missed it during the Official AC Broadcast yesterday his fellow Australian Nathan Outerridge said On-Air that Ashby is likely going back to Australia after bascially having spent most of the last 8 years since he signed up for ETNZ's 2013 Challenge in New Zealand. That might be indicative how the National Requirement will be for Sailors come AC37!

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16 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Not so sure about that. Paddy. I think he'd grow into it, just fine.

Anywho, it would suit US I think.

You could be right but he will need to bring his elbows in, shave and wear a suit every now and then :lol: 

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1 minute ago, Paddywackery said:

You could be right but he will need to bring his elbows in, shave and wear a suit every now and then :lol: 

+1

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14 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Dan Bernasconi will stay I am pretty sure of that. I read an Interview with "TheTimes" in the UK before the AC Match started that he will stay as long as ETNZ wants him.

Glenn Ashby is a different subject. First of all he is a Sailor and not a Designer and in case you missed it during the Official AC Broadcast yesterday his fellow Australian Nathan Outerridge said On-Air that Ashby is likely going back to Australia after bascially having spent most of the last 8 years since he signed up for ETNZ's 2013 Challenge in New Zealand. That might be indicative how the National Requirement will be for Sailors come AC37!

Maybe we can finally see another Australian team.

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Just now, TheDragon said:

Maybe we can finally see another Australian team.

Yeah hopefully, TS and NO said it would be closer to reality if ETNZ won it, kept the class and reduced costs, fingers crossed 

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2 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Maybe we can finally see another Australian team.

Unlikely sadly - unless the arms race drops down a few tiers to something more affordable.

There just hasn't been another rich dude with enough of an interest in the sport prepared to fund one since 1987, Oatley toyed with the idea a few years back but balked at the cost and I'd be surprised if that family would now pony up in Bob's wake.  Marcus Blackmore could theoretically be a candidate but his passion to date has been as a top level owner-driver rather than as sugar daddy for a bunch of pros.

Jim Cooney, Christian Beck maybe but I suspect it's out of their $ reach at present. 

In terms of the Corporate alternative, a la ETNZ, there just hasn't ever been the level of support from National champions to get a proposition up.

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2 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Unlikely sadly - unless the arms race drops down a few tiers to something more affordable.

There just hasn't been another rich dude with enough of an interest in the sport prepared to fund one since 1987, Oatley toyed with the idea a few years back but balked at the cost and I'd be surprised if that family would now pony up in Bob's wake.  Marcus Blackmore could theoretically be a candidate but his passion to date has been as a top level owner-driver rather than as sugar daddy for a bunch of pros.

Jim Cooney, Christian Beck maybe but I suspect it's out of their $ reach at present. 

In terms of the Corporate alternative, a la ETNZ, there just hasn't ever been the level of support from National champions to get a proposition up.

Sorry to read that. You guys are the ones who turned the AC into a real competition. I'm surprised whatever your national sailing organization is cannot come up with a way to fund it in the modern era of crowdsourcing, etc. Get five of your billionaires involved if individual ones can't spare the chump change.

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4 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Sorry to read that. You guys are the ones who turned the AC into a real competition. I'm surprised whatever your national sailing organization is cannot come up with a way to fund it in the modern era of crowdsourcing, etc. Get five of your billionaires involved if individual ones can't spare the chump change.

Never say never.  A syndicate involving some of those characters and the obvious sailors may well have the legs.  The design side might be an issue - where to get the right talent.  But, it's solvable, just hard.

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5 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

 

 

Interesting, he’s suggesting what LE bankrolled for years of ACWS racing with the 45’s and then upgrading them to the 45F’s. Maybe the RNZYS guy who’s trying to build and sell the boats he wanted the Youth AC series to use, is making a stand? 

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13 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Sorry to read that. You guys are the ones who turned the AC into a real competition. I'm surprised whatever your national sailing organization is cannot come up with a way to fund it in the modern era of crowdsourcing, etc. Get five of your billionaires involved if individual ones can't spare the chump change.

Our national sailing organisation, LOL.

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7 hours ago, Joakim said:

Would you say that, if TR had been behind at the first cross?

Two separate things winning the start and getting an advantage from a split after the start. The latter being mostly boat speed.

LR started where they wanted in the situation. In the leebow of TR and not letting TR to start with a gap to leeward.

 

LR did not start as they had planned, that is to the RC side of the starting line, TR forced them out of the position and started in clear air, LR might be leeward and ahead slightly, but TR had taken all of the advantages away from LR (port entry, high mode, the ability to cover), TR did not make the move because they had to, TR executed exactly as they had planned.  Again, it is not difficult to see who had the upper-hand in the starting sequence.

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Hey guys, wind looking good for today, 14knts out of the east with gusts up to 17knts....I'm sure they'll choose course B today...should be epic.....oh, hang on!!

image.jpeg.66fc0648faef3af42738592b6065dc98.jpeg

 

 

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Just now, **ONTOIT** said:

Hey guys, wind looking good for today, 14knts out of the east with gusts up to 17knts....I'm sure they'll choose course B today...should be epic.....oh, hang on!!

image.jpeg.66fc0648faef3af42738592b6065dc98.jpeg

 

 

Man, thats cruel!

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10 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

Hey guys, wind looking good for today, 14knts out of the east with gusts up to 17knts....I'm sure they'll choose course B today...should be epic.....oh, hang on!!

image.jpeg.66fc0648faef3af42738592b6065dc98.jpeg

 

 

Shit, I was getting hyped there! 

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7 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Man, thats cruel!

I really hope they can turn around and get AC37 running quicker...similar to 2000 - 2003, effectively only a 2.5 year turnaround from the finish to the start of the challenger series. However given certain restrictions on travel etc, it might be that they do run with a DOG challenge next year with the certainty of IF ETNZ win they return to NZ in 2024.....fascinating times indeed!

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13 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

Hey guys, wind looking good for today, 14knts out of the east with gusts up to 17knts....I'm sure they'll choose course B today...should be epic.....oh, hang on!!

image.jpeg.66fc0648faef3af42738592b6065dc98.jpeg

 

 

Bring on Bermuda! :) 

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24 minutes ago, 45Roller said:

 

 

So there you have it ladies and gentlemen.

Smaller versions to get people into this type of racing.  What teenage sailor will not want to crew on that?  (or older sailors with some cash)

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3 minutes ago, rantro said:

So there you have it ladies and gentlemen.

Smaller versions to get people into this type of racing.  What teenage sailor will not want to crew on that?  (or older sailors with some cash)

In a class that is getting more refined there are fewer opportunities for big technical leaps.  ETNZ need to make the AC class small enough and cheap enough that they can afford to run a two boat campaign - Defenders need more full scale race experience than they can get from sailing a single boat.

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23 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Man, thats cruel!

Indeed, and that's why Dan B. was hinting at a nice performance in the stronger winds. With the smaller foils, match practice and some of the tweaks they have been making, it might have been special.

BTW...that view from North Head of ETNZ coming in surrounded by the flotilla was amazing. What a sight.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Glenn Ashby is a different subject. First of all he is a Sailor and not a Designer and in case you missed it during the Official AC Broadcast yesterday his fellow Australian Nathan Outerridge said On-Air that Ashby is likely going back to Australia after bascially having spent most of the last 8 years since he signed up for ETNZ's 2013 Challenge in New Zealand.

Nothing new about that "revelation" - Glen Ashby continued to live in Australia since he signed up with ETNZ, only spending extensive time in Auckland when he has had to during boat design, testing, etc. During AC36, he moved his family over to comply with the continuous residence requirement of AC36 Protocol.

Glen Ashby can apply for a Kiwi passport without relinquishing his Aussie citizenship - probably already travels on one.

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18 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

I really hope they can turn around and get AC37 running quicker...similar to 2000 - 2003, effectively only a 2.5 year turnaround from the finish to the start of the challenger series. However given certain restrictions on travel etc, it might be that they do run with a DOG challenge next year with the certainty of IF ETNZ win they return to NZ in 2024.....fascinating times indeed!

If they run a Single Challenger Event ala before 1970 (when the CSS was established) then they would lose all the NZ Government Funding. The Condition of the NZ Government funding another Defence is that AC37 takes place in Auckland.

I think that there will be a CSS/AC in Auckland in 2023/2024.

ACWS Events in Portsmouth & Newport in the 2nd Half of 2022.

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The venue-bid documents that were posted first by TE and later elsewhere, I wonder if NZ is supposed to be bidding under those same terms? 
 

One of them was that ACE (with GD for-himself still paid as CEO) had to still have control of ‘running’ the event and its budget; another was a stipulation that teams would be required to be located at the venue for.. was it a year prior to the Match, as enticement to the bidding host? 

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6 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

If they run a Single Challenger Event ala before 1970 (when the CSS was established) then they would lose all the NZ Government Funding. The Condition of the NZ Government funding another Defence is that AC37 takes place in Auckland.

I think that there will be a CSS/AC in Auckland in 2023/2024.

ACWS Events in Portsmouth & Newport in the 2nd Half of 2022.

I think AC37 will be in Auckland in Feb-March 2024, with a few AWS events around Europe and US East and West coasts in early '23. Interest can build up leveraging off the Rugby World Cup tv coverage in Sept-Oct '23 in France.

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7 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

The venue-bid documents that were posted first by TE and later elsewhere, I wonder if NZ is supposed to be bidding under those same terms? 
 

One of them was that ACE (with GD for-himself still paid as CEO) had to still have control of ‘running’ the event and its budget; another was a stipulation that teams would be required to be located at the venue for.. was it a year prior to the Match, as enticement to the bidding host? 

Tom Ehman?

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56 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

Hey guys, wind looking good for today, 14knts out of the east with gusts up to 17knts....I'm sure they'll choose course B today...should be epic.....oh, hang on!!

image.jpeg.66fc0648faef3af42738592b6065dc98.jpeg

 

 

only 1535 days to go

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42 minutes ago, rantro said:

So there you have it ladies and gentlemen.

Smaller versions to get people into this type of racing.  What teenage sailor will not want to crew on that?  (or older sailors with some cash)

Not a fan of these boats, but I am glad they are doing something for talent development. 

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7 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Tom Ehman?

Yes, the 66 page venue bid document was making the rounds, Tom decided ‘whatever!’ and got into it, on his Sailing Illustrated show. 

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1 hour ago, 45Roller said:

 

 

Not news at all. The Youth America's Cup which had to be cancelled because of COVID was going to be sailed by young crews of 4 in small foilers. The boat has been designed. There also a similar boat recently used for the youth foiling event in Europe. So the boats are already there

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5 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes, the 66 page venue bid document was making the rounds, Tom decided ‘whatever!’ and got into it, on his Sailing Illustrated show. 

Copy that, was just confirming it wasn't happening again.

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I haven't managed to keep up with the radio chatter here this last week ... spent much of my time out watching the racing! 

Anyway, congratulations ETNZ and a big thanks to Luna Rosa. Such a shame we couldn't see TR sailing to her full potential in some decent breeze, I reckon that would have been quite something.

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1 minute ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Anyway, congratulations ETNZ and a big thanks to Luna Rosa. Such a shame we couldn't see TR sailing to her full potential in some decent breeze, I reckon that would have been quite something.

Agree, but adding ‘For LR too!’ We missed decent breeze this time, again.. 

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1 hour ago, 45Roller said:

Yeah hopefully, TS and NO said it would be closer to reality if ETNZ won it, kept the class and reduced costs, fingers crossed 

Good grief, can you imagine Ashby, TS and NO on one boat with JS as manager and coach.

Nah...its not going to happen. Aussie provides the talent for OPBs.

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20 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

Good grief, can you imagine Ashby, TS and NO on one boat with JS as manager and coach.

Nah...its not going to happen. Aussie provides the talent for OPBs.

Not convinced how Slingsby can work with Spithill after second-guessing him in BDA in the midst of rumours that Coutts wanted him to replace Spithill when 4-zip down in the Match. Nor for that matter Glen Ashby working with their big egos having spent 8 years in a collaborative and supportive team environment.

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12 minutes ago, Indio said:

Not convinced how Slingsby can work with Spithill after second-guessing him in BDA in the midst of rumours that Coutts wanted him to replace Spithill when 4-zip down in the Match. Nor for that matter Glen Ashby working with their big egos having spent 8 years in a collaborative and supportive team environment.

I still think the pull of being in a team that tries to win 3 in a row will be a big draw for GA to remain.  From what I can see from the AC history, no yacht club has won 3 in a row since Australia took it from the NY club in 1983.

Another interesting stat to come from the race yesterday (this may have already been mentioned)... Burling has won the most AC races of all time now.  As it currently stands:

United Kingdom Charlie Barr – Wins 1899, 1901, 1903 – Won 9 / Lost 0
United States Harold S. Vanderbilt – Wins 1930, 1934, 1937 – Won 12 / Lost 2
New Zealand Russell Coutts – Wins 1995, 2000, 2003 – Won 14 / Lost 0
United States Dennis Conner – Wins 1980, 1987, 1988 – Won 13 / Lost 5
New Zealand Peter Burling – Wins 2017, 2021 – Won 15 / Lost 4
Australia Jimmy Spithill – Wins 2010, 2013 – Won 14 / Lost 16

 

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10 minutes ago, Indio said:

Not convinced how Slingsby can work with Spithill after second-guessing him in BDA in the midst of rumours that Coutts wanted him to replace Spithill when 4-zip down in the Match. Nor for that matter Glen Ashby working with their big egos having spent 8 years in a collaborative and supportive team environment.

Yep. You can choose your nationality and friends, but you're stuck with your family. You don't get to choose them.

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3 minutes ago, Indio said:

I still rate Sir Russell's record of 14&0 top, in an era when the AC talent with $$$ and experience was deep.

Yes, 3 wins in a row for him with no losses.  Hard to beat.

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Ha!

Just found out that Andy, the driver of the media Photo Boat that I went out on back in December, is Blair Tuke's proud Dad!

He told me that he came down from Kerikeri to go out as a Prada volunteer for the Cup, but I never clicked.

Photos by Chris Cameron.

160569452_10159337859062558_4779029850667631266_o.jpg

160567751_10159337859027558_1242952190751208216_o.jpg

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1 hour ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

I still think the pull of being in a team that tries to win 3 in a row will be a big draw for GA to remain.  From what I can see from the AC history, no yacht club has won 3 in a row since Australia took it from the NY club in 1983.

Another interesting stat to come from the race yesterday (this may have already been mentioned)... Burling has won the most AC races of all time now.  As it currently stands:

United Kingdom Charlie Barr – Wins 1899, 1901, 1903 – Won 9 / Lost 0
United States Harold S. Vanderbilt – Wins 1930, 1934, 1937 – Won 12 / Lost 2
New Zealand Russell Coutts – Wins 1995, 2000, 2003 – Won 14 / Lost 0
United States Dennis Conner – Wins 1980, 1987, 1988 – Won 13 / Lost 5
New Zealand Peter Burling – Wins 2017, 2021 – Won 15 / Lost 4
Australia Jimmy Spithill – Wins 2010, 2013 – Won 14 / Lost 16

 

Nice stat. Hmmm, who's the biggest loser?

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

Not convinced how Slingsby can work with Spithill after second-guessing him in BDA in the midst of rumours that Coutts wanted him to replace Spithill when 4-zip down in the Match. Nor for that matter Glen Ashby working with their big egos having spent 8 years in a collaborative and supportive team environment.

Can this be verified? Wouldn't JS and RC be at odds as well? 

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Tom's (Mozzy Sails) pitch for an America's Cup berth and other stuff...

 

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10 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Tom's (Mozzy Sails) pitch for an America's Cup berth and other stuff...

 

What he didn't mention is he won all this regattas with his wife.

Maybe she should be recruited by INEOS?

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21 minutes ago, barfy said:

Nice stat. Hmmm, who's the biggest loser?

Hmmm. Not sure about that, Barfy. Not a lot of net gain from a 9:8 win. Still a hell of a result though.

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20 minutes ago, Sugarscoop said:

now that this is over, where is the Sail GP thread? can someone link me

Unfortunately, it's just a Sub-Topic under "America's Cup". 

You'll just have to search through the excessive topic listings at https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/forum/23-americas-cup-anarchy/

I asked the Admins some time ago if they could make this a top level topic (?), but the answer was "not unless someone sponsors it". 

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Somewhat OT, but I sent a request to the Admins:

Quote

Hi guys

The America's Cup forum has been a blast, many thanks for hosting it! :D

Feature Request:
Due to the sheer number of sub-topics under the top level AC Topic, it's getting more and more difficult to find just the ones I'm actually interested in.

Would it be possible to add a "Favourite Topics" option, so that any tagged as such by a member would "float" to the top?

Cheers, Max

Will advise the outcome. 

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Nice stat. Hmmm, who's the biggest loser?

I think those loss stats don't include the losses you suffer if you don't win the match.  So JS's losses this time round aren't included... I don't think?  Otherwise would be 19 losses which puts him even with Barker for AC losses.  Poor lads.

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3 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Would it be possible to add a "Favourite Topics" option, so that any tagged as such by a member would "float" to the top?

I would  like that !

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2 hours ago, Sugarscoop said:

now that this is over, where is the Sail GP thread? can someone link me

Not part of the Americas cup, its those old slow boats that aren't really that maneuverable, probably in multihull anarchy?? 

:P:D:lol: 

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7 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

I thought Dan's countenance interesting. He looks mildly amused, but also deeply engrossed in working through the next go-faster tweak. A bloody genius.

He was walking along the waterfront at lunch time today, eating ice cream. 

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3 hours ago, Indio said:

I still rate Sir Russell's record of 14&0 top, in an era when the AC talent with $$$ and experience was deep.

And also they did less races than today. Coutts will be always the top in AC, in my opinion

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5 minutes ago, strider470 said:

And also they did less races than today. Coutts will be always the top in AC, in my opinion

Oh come on @strider470, where is your normal indomitable spirit????

Sure the correct answer is that Francesco Bruni will always be tops after he wins the next 4 cups????

You are really off your game! :lol:

 

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5 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Oh come on @strider470, where is your normal indomitable spirit????

Sure the correct answer is that Francesco Bruni will always be tops after he wins the next 4 cups????

You are really off your game! :lol:

 

I don't care for the Cup or even sailing. Now I can tell you. My teacher of English sent me here, it is part of the "swearing and cursing in English" class. :D

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This won't let me upload the photo but when ETNZ crossed the line we all got a can of Steinlager saying "America's Cup 36 Winner" at a bar in Christchurch yesterday. 

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29 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

He was walking along the waterfront at lunch time today, eating ice cream. 

Brain food?

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21 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I don't care for the Cup or even sailing. Now I can tell you. My teacher of English sent me here, it is part of the "swearing and cursing in English" class. :D

Well fuck me, you must be the best wanker in the whole of italy at this mother fucking swearing shit!

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5 hours ago, 1eyedkiwi said:


Australia Jimmy Spithill – Wins 2010, 2013 – Won 14 / Lost 16

 

I think you're short changing Spithill

2010 - won 2 races

2013 won 11 races, lost 8

2017 won 1 race, lost 8

2021 won 3 races, lost 7

17 wins, 23 losses

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6 hours ago, jaysper said:

Not a fan of these boats, but I am glad they are doing something for talent development. 

Think like a 10 year old.  Look at a foiler, then an opti. 

Which would you want to be on?

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Watching Race 8 again (that race) and wow! This race is easily the most dramatic AC races of all time!

On the day, it was such a roller coaster of emotions, from nervous, to absolutely gutted, to absolute joy.

I'm not ashamed to say, I felt nothing for LR on that day, as that was such a huge race for the Kiwi boys.

But on watching it back again...man, I feel terrible for the Italians. They did everything right, but for one bad tack that cost them the race. Man that is hard to watch the Italians just get absolutely mowed down, 2 legs from the finish.

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6 minutes ago, Flags said:

My thoughts exactly! Bunch of pigs with their snouts in a trough. And about as intelligent! The only useful thing you could do with them is spear them and roast them, as you would do with any pigs.

They would taste full of shit.

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5 hours ago, Sugarscoop said:

now that this is over, where is the Sail GP thread? can someone link me

There's a new thread called 'SailGP 2021' over in the 'Multihull Anarchy' part of the forum. Only a few posts so far but might become the go-to?

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25 minutes ago, Flags said:

My thoughts exactly! Bunch of pigs with their snouts in a trough. And about as intelligent! The only useful thing you could do with them is spear them and roast them, as you would do with any pigs.

If the peak body was not there it would have to be invented. 

Never ceases to amaze me that in a sport as rule bound as sailing, the disrespect for the bodies needed to administer the rules is shafted relentlessly by dumb-fuks like you.  No concept of what it takes to hold the sport together.

All take and no fucking give.

 

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9 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Interesting, he’s suggesting what LE bankrolled for years of ACWS racing with the 45’s and then upgrading them to the 45F’s. Maybe the RNZYS guy who’s trying to build and sell the boats he wanted the Youth AC series to use, is making a stand? 

It's called Te Kahu

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7 hours ago, weta27 said:

Ha!

Just found out that Andy, the driver of the media Photo Boat that I went out on back in December, is Blair Tuke's proud Dad!

He told me that he came down from Kerikeri to go out as a Prada volunteer for the Cup, but I never clicked.

Photos by Chris Cameron.

160569452_10159337859062558_4779029850667631266_o.jpg

160567751_10159337859027558_1242952190751208216_o.jpg

Nice, NZ is a small place I windsurfed with Andy waaaay back when windsurfing was a thing and Blair wasnt

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2 hours ago, rantro said:

Think like a 10 year old.  Look at a foiler, then an opti. 

Which would you want to be on?

That is a silly question, there is a reason we dont give 10 year olds the choice between a Ferrari or a Prius. A better question would be do you want to wear goggles and a pony bottle, be followed around by a chase boat with 2 divers and have a team of 120 running your boat so you can go out for a sail? 

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2 minutes ago, Caecilian said:

That is a silly question, there is a reason we dont give 10 year olds the choice between a Ferrari or a Prius. A better question would be do you want to wear goggles and a pony bottle, be followed around by a chase boat with 2 divers and have a team of 120 running your boat so you can go out for a sail? 

Have you had a few head knocks lately?

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23 hours ago, hoom said:

A point about this race:

....

Actually I retract that, watched the stern cam & the audio has them surprised to not be laying just after the gybe so it seems they assumed LR had gybed on lay & probably would have continued if they had realised LR wasn't laying.

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29 minutes ago, rantro said:

Have you had a few head knocks lately?

you keep trying to sell me something, I'm just not buying. I appreciate these boats for what they are- its not sailing its foiling and they are two different sports with some overlap. Because  SAAC is a bubble we dont realise the actual viewer numbers out in the wide world and the level of interest in the boats,  its a lot less than what we think. The AC and foiling is a niche within a niche. So when you ask a question about opti vs foilers its a non question if its a reflection on optis which happen to be one of the most popular dinghies ever. Two different sports, sport