Jump to content

AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 7.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

And just to add to that record, Mozzy Sails contacted me direct to ask permission to use my photos and even offered to purchase some, by way of compensation. I am more than happy to contribute an

Just for the record, I contacted @erdb @MaxHugen @doroxand @weta27asked if they were happy me using images or graphs etc. I always try to credit them in the video and in the description as agreed.  I

I want to thank all the amazing people I had the pleasure to meet here on Sailing Anarchy during this America's Cup. It's a huge list. Brits, Irish, Kiwis, fellow Italians, French, Dutch, Americans, C

Posted Images

9 hours ago, rantro said:

Have you had a few head knocks lately?

He does have a point, which is logistically they are very tough boats.

However make the comparison with a foiling moth and an opti and I guess most kids would want the moth.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Couch Bike Dude said:

To me it's a toss up between New Zealand KZ-1 and Alinghi 5. But Shamrock had some pretty big losers too!

NZL-82

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, rantro said:

Australia does not have to prove anything to anybody in sailing.

I think that is at the heart of the absence as a team.

Been there done that, got the T-shirt.

I think it's probably now more a case of funding.

It is incredibly hard to find a team even if it is established and successful. Funding a team from scratch without a tame mega billionaire is pretty close to impossible.

When ETNZ does finally fold, NZ will draw a line under this whole AC "thing", sit back on the veranda and bask in glories past and come to these forums to poke shit at whoever currently holds it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Couch Bike Dude said:

Change wanker to cocksucker and you have the Americanized version!

 

You mean google translate doesn't do that for you?

Strange, it seems to work just fine when I look at the posts written in italian. :huh:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Sounds like a fairly formidable line up of teams for the next cycle. INEOS, probably LR, Alinghi, Stars + Stripes, it will truly be the best of the best.

Most important: We now have an established Boat Class (8 AC75's), 4 of them could be sold to Start-Up Teams so they can learn how to sail them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, strider470 said:

And also they did less races than today. Coutts will be always the top in AC, in my opinion

"Always" is a long time - PB, BT and GA all have lots of miles ahead.....

Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Sounds like a fairly formidable line up of teams for the next cycle. INEOS, probably LR, Alinghi, Stars + Stripes, it will truly be the best of the best.

Ummm what? I think this time last cycle we had more challengers lining up and S&S didn't exactly turn out to be the best of the best did they?

I'd like to see Artemis return with NO at the helm and maybe SoftBank with Draper.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, 45Roller said:

Very interesting from GMR

@weta27 were you out that day mate? :)

 

I was just about to post that, thanks 45Roller. No I wasn't out that day, but the video gives a great  idea of what it's like. Slightly wetter and rockier on the TV Cats mind you!

I have been lucky enough to meet some of the photographers, all seem like nice people and boy do they work hard. So many images to sort, process, caption and upload.

The video shows Gilles (Kiwi cap and Les Voiles de St Tropez shirt) and Carlo Borlenghi (right at the end) who are of course internationally known, Stefano Gattini (on laptop right at the end), who works for Carlo, Chris Cameron (ex-ETNZ and now freelance) and Fiona Goodall from Getty Images. I didn't see RG in the video but he will have been there somewhere.

That's Andy Tuke driving the boat (Photo 1 - there are two Photo boats). And you also see the lovely Andjelka from the Prada Media Centre.

These guys are the real pro's.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Most important: We now have an established Boat Class (8 AC75's), 4 of them could be sold to Start-Up Teams so they can learn how to sail them.

Yeah maybe, but where are they going to get the expertise to run them? Seriously, the current teams struggled to fill the gaps, my mates on TNZ have given a few insights of what it takes to run these ships and its massive and the talent pool is currently completely taken.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, weta27 said:

I was just about to post that, thanks 45Roller. No I wasn't out that day, but the video gives a great  idea of what it's like. Slightly wetter and rockier on the TV Cats mind you!

I have been lucky enough to meet some of the photoographers, all seem like nice people and boy do they work hard. So many images to sort, process, caption and upload.

The video shows Gilles (Kiwi cap and Les Voiles de St Tropez shirt) and Carlo Borlenghi (right at the end) who are of course internationally known, Stefano Gattini (on laptop right at the end), who works for Carlo, Chris Cameron (ex-ETNZ and now freelance) and Fiona Goodall from Getty Images. I didn't see RG in the video but he will have been there somewhere.

That's Andy Tuke driving the boat (Photo 1 - there are two Photo boats). And you also see the lovely Andjelka from the Prada Media Centre.

These guys are the real pro's.

I have lens envy.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, weta27 said:

I was just about to post that, thanks 45Roller. No I wasn't out that day, but the video gives a great  idea of what it's like. Slightly wetter and rockier on the TV Cats mind you!

I have been lucky enough to meet some of the photographers, all seem like nice people and boy do they work hard. So many images to sort, process, caption and upload.

The video shows Gilles (Kiwi cap and Les Voiles de St Tropez shirt) and Carlo Borlenghi (right at the end) who are of course internationally known, Stefano Gattini (on laptop right at the end), who works for Carlo, Chris Cameron (ex-ETNZ and now freelance) and Fiona Goodall from Getty Images. I didn't see RG in the video but he will have been there somewhere.

That's Andy Tuke driving the boat (Photo 1 - there are two Photo boats). And you also see the lovely Andjelka from the Prada Media Centre.

These guys are the real pro's.

Nice one mate, thanks for the insight, as @jaysper says, lens envy for sure, some serious equipment there 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Ummm what? I think this time last cycle we had more challengers lining up and S&S didn't exactly turn out to be the best of the best did they?

I'd like to see Artemis return with NO at the helm and maybe SoftBank with Draper.

We did. But they weren’t the caliber that have signalled their interest now. We all thought they might be, could or should be, but LR proved to be far too strong for them. AS I always said, AM looked good by themselves but would be shown up by the experienced teams, and that proved to be true. INEOS will be strong as CoR, as long as they maintain a mutually beneficial relationship with ETNZ, LR will again be tough to beat (if they return) which it sounds like they might, Alinghi are strong fullstop, Stars + Stripes, who knows, they’ve had a whole cycle to get their shit together, and if the CSS is held in the UK, it might make it a little more appealing for the US audience/ sponsors, but there is some talented guys in that team. Spithill is going to the US SailGP team now so he might even come back with them. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cbulger said:

"Always" is a long time - PB, BT and GA all have lots of miles ahead.....

Maybe always is exaggerated, but you know what I mean. He was great not only as a sailor. I was very displeased when he left NZ for Alinghi, and I stopped rooting for him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Most important: We now have an established Boat Class (8 AC75's), 4 of them could be sold to Start-Up Teams so they can learn how to sail them.

Which team AM, ENTZ. LRP, INEOS is going to sell their first AC75 to ernesto bertarelli?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jaysper said:

I think it's probably now more a case of funding.

It is incredibly hard to find a team even if it is established and successful. Funding a team from scratch without a tame mega billionaire is pretty close to impossible.

When ETNZ does finally fold, NZ will draw a line under this whole AC "thing", sit back on the veranda and bask in glories past and come to these forums to poke shit at whoever currently holds it.

You just backed up my point.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jaysper said:

You mean google translate doesn't do that for you?

Strange, it seems to work just fine when I look at the posts written in italian. :huh:

It's not translation, rather North American vernacular.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, weta27 said:

I was just about to post that, thanks 45Roller. No I wasn't out that day, but the video gives a great  idea of what it's like. Slightly wetter and rockier on the TV Cats mind you!

I have been lucky enough to meet some of the photographers, all seem like nice people and boy do they work hard. So many images to sort, process, caption and upload.

The video shows Gilles (Kiwi cap and Les Voiles de St Tropez shirt) and Carlo Borlenghi (right at the end) who are of course internationally known, Stefano Gattini (on laptop right at the end), who works for Carlo, Chris Cameron (ex-ETNZ and now freelance) and Fiona Goodall from Getty Images. I didn't see RG in the video but he will have been there somewhere.

That's Andy Tuke driving the boat (Photo 1 - there are two Photo boats). And you also see the lovely Andjelka from the Prada Media Centre.

These guys are the real pro's.

Amazing to watch your talent grow @weta27. What is next for you, will you head down to Sail GP or perhaps offer your services to a team here in Auckland for reconnaissance?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chocoa said:

Which team AM, ENTZ. LRP, INEOS is going to sell their first AC75 to ernesto bertarelli?

The question is, who would want to buy Defiant or Rita 1 ? They would have to be desparate.

Te Aihe or LRPP1 would have to be the pick of the 1st gen boats, by a long way.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, fish7yu said:

 

Listen to the onboard audio, JS wanted "wide right" when they entered and FB agreed, well, LR did not get what they wanted, but TR got what they wanted, end of story.

Fish, there are clearly a lot of Jimmy Spithill super fans on the site from the Ed down, deaf ones at that or perhaps they don't understand match race starts and what it actually means to "win the start".

As a preamble, it was quite clear both sides wanted the right of the course after the start so whoever got there first "won".

1 minute before the start ETNZ chased LRPP down (sold them a dummy) - you can clearly see the LR team looking back at TR to see what they are doing. Once LR were committed (trapped by the boundary) to the round down TR immediately reversed their helm - I a guessing but they had no intention of following them through a gybe - before a hard round up and tack  introducing a gap between the teams.

TR speed was a real advantage as they could quickly get to the relative position on LR and also enabled them to control the distance between them and LR - notice a couple of course alterations (wiggles) to fine tune the gap

At 1 second t start TR were about half a boat length astern and .75 boat length to windward of LR's track and 1.7kts faster.

For those who haven't match raced speed off the line is vital.

At the start, as in 0.00 seconds to go TR tacks towards the side of the course both teams wanted. TR had prevented LR tacking by their position and had LR followed them they would have been in their bad air.

The definition of a good start must be the position it puts you as you go up the race course

1st tack TR ahead

1st cross - meeting - not a cross TR slams right on top of LR forcing them back t the unfavoured side

2nd cross LR have to dip. The top part of the course is left favoured and TR build a 100m plus lead.

ETNZ were extraordinarily lucky that by losing the start they healthily won the race to the top mark OR before dock out they sat down with their weather team an analysed the likely 'wind shape' on the course and then sailed to the plan.

I've seen this sort of strategizing before. Before DFRT left Gothenburg for the last leg of the VOR to Den Haag, Charles, Pascal and Marcel looked at the likely weather on the course and the Danish coast was selected before they even cast off their lines. Many of you will have seen the video of those last few miles. Trust me, it was even more dramatic from the team RIB.

Ironically it was once again the last race that was the important one there also, almost like a 3 way match race.

Both races showed very clearly the importance of a good overall strategy.

Have at it, I'm all for a good discussion.

28 minutes ago, Chapter Four said:

The question is, who would want to buy Defiant or Rita 1 ? They would have to be desperate.

Te Aihe or LRPP1 would have to be the pick of the 1st gen boats, by a long way.

The importance isn't the actual performance of the boat. 3 years is not a lot of time (typical cup cycle) and having a boat that can a) be used as a benchmark and more importantly b) can be used as a practice platform in much the same way as INEOS and American Magic got their 'miniatures' on the water as early as possible.

It wouldn't be the first time a syndicate boat an older generation boat, after 1980 Peter de Savary bought Alan Bond's old boat for the same reason and ended up as a finalist in 1983 against the boat that changed America's Cup history 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WakaNZ said:

What is next for you, will you head down to Sail GP or perhaps offer your services to a team here in Auckland for reconnaissance?

Thanks Waka. I'm retired and a bit old to be launching into any serious stuff.

I have some other time-consuming interests, so will just pack the camera away for the meantime and wait for the next AC boat to sail past North Head ... :D 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Thanks Waka. I'm retired and a bit old to be launching into any serious stuff.

I have some other time-consuming interests, so will just pack the camera away for the meantime and wait for the next AC boat to sail past North Head ... :D 

Thanks weta, enjoyed the great shots.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Chapter Four said:

The question is, who would want to buy Defiant or Rita 1 ? They would have to be desparate.

Te Aihe or LRPP1 would have to be the pick of the 1st gen boats, by a long way.

Te Kahu would be worth getting hold of too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Te Kahu would be worth getting hold of too.

Te Kahu would only be worthwhile if it comes with the foils.

The hull is nothing special and the rig is probably extraordinarily basic given how small it is cos they wouldn't be able to fit all the doo dads into such a small rig.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

The importance isn't the actual performance of the boat. 3 years is not a lot of time (typical cup cycle) and having a boat that can a) be used as a benchmark and more importantly b) can be used as a practice platform in much the same way as INEOS and American Magic got their 'miniatures' on the water as early as possible.

It wouldn't be the first time a syndicate boat an older generation boat, after 1980 Peter de Savary bought Alan Bond's old boat for the same reason and ended up as a finalist in 1983 against the boat that changed America's Cup history 

 

I agree to a point,there is a lot of merit in buying an old boat to start a campaign.

But I think those 2 boats are so far off the pace, they wouldn't give you a good enough head start to warrant buying them.

Using them as starting points, you would be unlikely to get to Te Rehutai or LRPP2 type performance, so your second boat is at most only going to be competitive with the 2 that just played out AC36, and you'd need to build a third to be competitive in AC37.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jaysper said:

Te Kahu would only be worthwhile if it comes with the foils.

The hull is nothing special and the rig is probably extraordinarily basic given how small it is cos they wouldn't be able to fit all the doo dads into such a small rig.

How would a new AC team learn to sail an AC mono foiler without an AC75, or a test boat like Te Kahu or the Mule.

And, of course you'd expect a set of foils. There are plenty available. Not the Cup winning version though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Chapter Four said:

I agree to a point,there is a lot of merit in buying an old boat to start a campaign.

But I think those 2 boats are so far off the pace, they wouldn't give you a good enough head start to warrant buying them.

Using them as starting points, you would be unlikely to get to Te Rehutai or LRPP2 type performance, so your second boat is at most only going to be competitive with the 2 that just played out AC36, and you'd need to build a third to be competitive in AC37.

I'm thinking there'll be a few teams purchasing generic design packages, just to get started. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, weta27 said:

Thanks Waka. I'm retired and a bit old to be launching into any serious stuff.

I have some other time-consuming interests, so will just pack the camera away for the meantime and wait for the next AC boat to sail past North Head ... :D 

Thanks weta for all the great pics you share here. They're much appreciated, especially in the long lead up to the Cup, keeping us informed and building the anticipation. I'm sure it won't be long before the next AC boat passes North Head.

And if we didn't have your pics where would we put our yellow lines?!!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/17/2021 at 5:02 AM, terrafirma said:

Shirley saying 2-5 knots quicker the Kiwis. SO the rumoured 5 knot advantage was true..! LOL 

 

On 3/17/2021 at 5:38 AM, Barnyb said:

Strider. We know what's its like to be on the receiving end but LRPP can hold their heads high. I was fortunate enough to see the LRPP supporters when LR dispensed with the Americans and then the poms. They were loud in support for their team but the first to honor their competitors. These are the same young people who will be deeply disappointed today. They won my respect.

 If you ever come to NZ I will buy you a beer or vino and I am sure I will not be the only one

 

 Barnyb

 

On 3/17/2021 at 5:52 AM, mako23 said:

You have every right to be proud, they were the best challenger by some margin 

 

On 3/17/2021 at 5:56 AM, Horn Rock said:

Great win from Burling and the boys........so happy, and relieved......Huge  congrats to team Luna Rossa, damn good effort from them, really hope they come back. Really enjoyed the banter with Strider and the Italian supporters in here......commiserations lads......

 

On 3/17/2021 at 6:06 AM, Forourselves said:

Thank you so much! I really wish I was in Auckland at the Viaduct with the thousands of Kiwi's down there, but work beckoned. So I'm now watching it on TV. It is what it is.

Congratulations Italy and Luna Rossa on a hard fought and well executed campaign. Luna Rossa were a more than worthy challenger. They really forced the Kiwi boys to get the best out of their boat.

But in the end, we did just that.

Looking forward to the future, but for now...Cheers boys!

800076ddeaf444064430164e8a168084.jpg

 

On 3/17/2021 at 6:37 AM, Kiwing said:

I must say you Italians put up an amazing fight.  Really worthy opponents!  It is a pity there is no silver medal.  But it is said you will be back!

Congratulations to Luna Rossa and her fans !!

 

On 3/17/2021 at 10:12 AM, Sailbydate said:

Congratulations, ETNZ. And commiserations, LRPP.

Thanks to all our great SAAC contributors.

And a special thanks to all our Italian friends and supporters. Grazie per essere così grandi concorrenti.

 

On 3/17/2021 at 9:28 PM, The Main Man said:

Excellent regatta, congratulations to ETNZ, worthy winners. Commiserations to Luna Rossa, what a great team with some great supporters out there and here on these boards.

Now what am I going to do every morning before work?!?

Sorry for being late to the (NZ) party! Just wanted to say that it was an amazing Match. Kiwis were the best, my best congrats to them.

And thanks to the friends here on this board!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

French perspective - Tip and Shaft.

WHAT WE LEARNED FROM THE 36TH AMERICA'S CUP
 

The 36th America's Cup was retained by Emirates Team New Zealand on Wednesday with their 7-3 victory against Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli. Tip & Shaft reviews this edition with the views of experts involved in this campaign: Martin Fischer, Francis Hueber and Philippe Presti from the Luna Rossa camp, Gautier Sergent and Antoine Guillou for Ineos Team UK, Arthur Rozand for American Magic. And they are aided and abetted by the expert observers, Bertrand Pacé and Franck Cammas.

Each edition the experts come to the same conclusion, the winner of the Cup is always the team that has the fastest boat. That has held true again on this 36th edition. "The Kiwis had a clear advantage and I think it would have been even more obvious in the breeze" asserts Antoine Guillou who was alongside Benjamin Muyl on the design team at Ineos Team UK. "The Italians were lucky to have the conditions that were more suited to them and that allowed them to capitalize on their good starts. But as the racing progressed the New Zealanders plugged their  gaps especially on manoeuvres and their speed advantage ended up paying off."

Franck Cammas, skipper of Groupama Team France on the 35th Cup, adds: "The speed difference was not huge but it was enough to allow the New Zealanders to win even when they ended up starting behind. We felt that the Italians were trying to stick their elbows out to stop the Kiwis from passing but the converse was not the case when the Kiwis were in front."

This higher speed potential constantly put the pressure on the Italians who occasionally got it wrong. "When they made a mistake, they paid for it big time. They had to have sailed all perfect races to win it" notes Gautier Sergent, the boss of North Sails France who was seconded to the British challenger on the Cup.

Monday saw the Kiwis make the break, from 3-3 to 5-3, two races that Luna Rossa had the opportunity to win, in that sense was decisive. This is conceded by Philippe Presti the French coach of the Italian challenger: "It was the day to do the job. We missed a bit then. At 5-3 in our favour, we could have still shaken them up and done more."

Did the two helmsman system developed by Luna Rossa reach its limits when it came to resisting New Zealand pressure ? "It worked as long as there was no quick decisions to be made I found the decision-making process of the Kiwis more cutting edge", says Bertrand Pacé who has seven Cup campaigns to his credit.

Defending in the Italians corner is Philippe Presti: "We took a bit of advantage in the initial phases in having two tactician helms made it possible to be reactive, on the other hand when the tactician helm spends half the time looking at the foil to try to maintain his height above the water, he sees nothing and it drains energy and focus on a task which is very mechanical. So what we gained on the one hand, we lost on the other."

"TNZ's strength is their ability to take risks"

All our experts recognize the superiority of the New Zealand AC75, praising the work of the design team led by Dan Bernasconi. "They did a job which was magnificent in terms of the ingenuity, the detail and innovation. Everywhere they have pushed the design to the limit", says Francis Hueber, the naval architect who is a specialist in CFD, who was part of the design team at Luna Rossa.

"TNZ's strength is their ability to take risks and go to where other teams don't necessarily dare to go. They didn't win because they had one incredible idea that the others did not have, they won because they did a lot a little better" Antoine Guillou analyses, "We can see it in particular with their small foils: everyone knew that it was a good idea, but we were all a little afraid that it would not work in light winds or we would have cavitation concerns. The Kiwis were able to find solutions to make it work."

Arthur Rozand who was part of the American Magic design team adds: "We expected the small foils to be problematic in the phases of maneuvering or instability, especially in light winds, but in fact no, they managed to keep a very efficient boat up, proof that they had other components allowing them to compensate for this potential weakness."

One thing for sure according to Gautier Sergent was "a great aero package, with the foot lowered to gain mainsail area and a cockpit designed to have a very, very clean flow." And the boss of North Sails France adds: "The Kiwis also understood that it was necessary to be able to handle the power of the sails, they have developed solutions to bend the mast enough and have very flat sails which have very little drag but while retaining power. It was all very smart, you can see that they've really mastered the concept of these boats."

Martin Fischer, co-design coordinator of Luna Rossa, confirms: "They were very good on the sails and the rig in general, with a slightly different approach from the others, a more curved mast which has given an advantage. I also see the aerodynamics of their hull to be very clean. There are several little assets that allowed them to accumulate advantages that turned into a significant speed advantage."

"A real match-race at speeds of 35-40 knots"

Still, according to our experts, it was a proper, close match, all give credit to the New Zealanders for launching a new type of boat, while many started out quite skeptical. "When we received the rule, we weren't all convinced it was going to work but in the end, we had a magnificent Cup, with very efficient boats and real match-racing," said Arthur Rozand.

It's the same story with Martin Fischer: "A lot of people were negative, I myself was not 100% convinced that it was the right boat to give rise to close racing but we have seen some real match-races at speeds of 35-40 knots and that was exceptional. "

Francis Hueber shares this enthusiasm: "They managed to reconcile the traditions of match-racing with very high technology and that was awesome. It was great to reconnect with upwind starts the suspense of the first crossing that does not exist with reaching starts. That adds spice."

For Franck Cammas, "The concept of the boat had only been studied in simulators the real boat was almost beyond what one could imagine. It was also nice to see the public's enthusiasm for such a sailing event, we have really seen a nation behind their team, like they get behind the All Blacks. These are good signs selling the America's Cup "

How many teams for the 37th Cup?

How can we ensure that for the 37th edition there are more than four challenges at the start of a Cup for which the Challenger of Record will be Ineos and which will again be raced in AC75 (the first details including in particular a reinforced nationality rule were announced this Friday). "They should allow new teams access to the technology and the existing engineering. With 20 million euros per year, you can do something good if you have access to part of it", thinks Bertrand Pacé.

Martin Fischer adds: "We can imagine making part of the control systems one design to make it less of a headache technically and thus facilitate the entry of new teams. There will also be second-hand boats that will be for sale, a boat of the first generation can go a long way in gaining experience."

In addition to the defender and the new challenger of record, Patrizio Bertelli, boss of Luna Rossa, claimed that the Italian challenge would be probably be back next time, nothing has yet officially been heard from the side of American Magic.

What about other possible entrants? Recently asked the question, Ernesto Bertarelli, boss of Alinghi, did not rule out a return of the Swiss challenge. Several of our experts believe that Stars & Stripes had to give up before the 36th Cup kicked off, remain interested.

"We are going to have some surprises with new teams who are going to appeal to new commercial markets some very good teams with the means to win., contends Franck Cammas who is sure of his proposition, but without saying more. "That is further proof that this edition was popular and that the Cup remains attractive and addictive for those who have had a try " Including for Cammas himself who is again in the campaign to find funding: "Team France has been restructured, we have quality people, including a new president [Antoine de Véricourt], we're starting to have some interesting meetings to fund a project with a very long-term vision."

What remains to be seen is to know the exact format of the 37th edition. The possibility of a unique match in Cowes between Emirates Team New Zealand and Ineos has been mentioned by various media in New Zealand and Europe. Francis Hueber comments: "With Covid the final balance sheet of costs must be complicated for the New Zealanders while Ineos have plenty of money, they want to win, so it's a good guess. But I think it would be a bit too much for the Kiwis to pass it on to their supporters and the Cup's community as they regularly complain about teams that have plenty of money. And if it all happens in a short time, for example in 2022, and everything else is in place that may allow new teams to start their development or to see money for an event with visibility which can be interesting."

  • Like 9
Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ Good read, some interesting points.......Presti's admission they gained and lost on the dual helm set up. I'm not sure we'll see it again. It was obvious in the white heat of battle that decision making process was erratic, and they simply didn't get the choices right.

On the design choices.....lots of little things that added up to a better package.

They all seem quite enthusiastic about the class - would be good to see a French entrant.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, chesirecat said:

French perspective - Tip and Shaft.

WHAT WE LEARNED FROM THE 36TH AMERICA'S CUP
 

The 36th America's Cup was retained by Emirates Team New Zealand on Wednesday with their 7-3 victory against Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli. Tip & Shaft reviews this edition with the views of experts involved in this campaign: Martin Fischer, Francis Hueber and Philippe Presti from the Luna Rossa camp, Gautier Sergent and Antoine Guillou for Ineos Team UK, Arthur Rozand for American Magic. And they are aided and abetted by the expert observers, Bertrand Pacé and Franck Cammas.

Each edition the experts come to the same conclusion, the winner of the Cup is always the team that has the fastest boat. That has held true again on this 36th edition. "The Kiwis had a clear advantage and I think it would have been even more obvious in the breeze" asserts Antoine Guillou who was alongside Benjamin Muyl on the design team at Ineos Team UK. "The Italians were lucky to have the conditions that were more suited to them and that allowed them to capitalize on their good starts. But as the racing progressed the New Zealanders plugged their  gaps especially on manoeuvres and their speed advantage ended up paying off."

Franck Cammas, skipper of Groupama Team France on the 35th Cup, adds: "The speed difference was not huge but it was enough to allow the New Zealanders to win even when they ended up starting behind. We felt that the Italians were trying to stick their elbows out to stop the Kiwis from passing but the converse was not the case when the Kiwis were in front."

This higher speed potential constantly put the pressure on the Italians who occasionally got it wrong. "When they made a mistake, they paid for it big time. They had to have sailed all perfect races to win it" notes Gautier Sergent, the boss of North Sails France who was seconded to the British challenger on the Cup.

Monday saw the Kiwis make the break, from 3-3 to 5-3, two races that Luna Rossa had the opportunity to win, in that sense was decisive. This is conceded by Philippe Presti the French coach of the Italian challenger: "It was the day to do the job. We missed a bit then. At 5-3 in our favour, we could have still shaken them up and done more."

Did the two helmsman system developed by Luna Rossa reach its limits when it came to resisting New Zealand pressure ? "It worked as long as there was no quick decisions to be made I found the decision-making process of the Kiwis more cutting edge", says Bertrand Pacé who has seven Cup campaigns to his credit.

Defending in the Italians corner is Philippe Presti: "We took a bit of advantage in the initial phases in having two tactician helms made it possible to be reactive, on the other hand when the tactician helm spends half the time looking at the foil to try to maintain his height above the water, he sees nothing and it drains energy and focus on a task which is very mechanical. So what we gained on the one hand, we lost on the other."

"TNZ's strength is their ability to take risks"

All our experts recognize the superiority of the New Zealand AC75, praising the work of the design team led by Dan Bernasconi. "They did a job which was magnificent in terms of the ingenuity, the detail and innovation. Everywhere they have pushed the design to the limit", says Francis Hueber, the naval architect who is a specialist in CFD, who was part of the design team at Luna Rossa.

"TNZ's strength is their ability to take risks and go to where other teams don't necessarily dare to go. They didn't win because they had one incredible idea that the others did not have, they won because they did a lot a little better" Antoine Guillou analyses, "We can see it in particular with their small foils: everyone knew that it was a good idea, but we were all a little afraid that it would not work in light winds or we would have cavitation concerns. The Kiwis were able to find solutions to make it work."

Arthur Rozand who was part of the American Magic design team adds: "We expected the small foils to be problematic in the phases of maneuvering or instability, especially in light winds, but in fact no, they managed to keep a very efficient boat up, proof that they had other components allowing them to compensate for this potential weakness."

One thing for sure according to Gautier Sergent was "a great aero package, with the foot lowered to gain mainsail area and a cockpit designed to have a very, very clean flow." And the boss of North Sails France adds: "The Kiwis also understood that it was necessary to be able to handle the power of the sails, they have developed solutions to bend the mast enough and have very flat sails which have very little drag but while retaining power. It was all very smart, you can see that they've really mastered the concept of these boats."

Martin Fischer, co-design coordinator of Luna Rossa, confirms: "They were very good on the sails and the rig in general, with a slightly different approach from the others, a more curved mast which has given an advantage. I also see the aerodynamics of their hull to be very clean. There are several little assets that allowed them to accumulate advantages that turned into a significant speed advantage."

"A real match-race at speeds of 35-40 knots"

Still, according to our experts, it was a proper, close match, all give credit to the New Zealanders for launching a new type of boat, while many started out quite skeptical. "When we received the rule, we weren't all convinced it was going to work but in the end, we had a magnificent Cup, with very efficient boats and real match-racing," said Arthur Rozand.

It's the same story with Martin Fischer: "A lot of people were negative, I myself was not 100% convinced that it was the right boat to give rise to close racing but we have seen some real match-races at speeds of 35-40 knots and that was exceptional. "

Francis Hueber shares this enthusiasm: "They managed to reconcile the traditions of match-racing with very high technology and that was awesome. It was great to reconnect with upwind starts the suspense of the first crossing that does not exist with reaching starts. That adds spice."

For Franck Cammas, "The concept of the boat had only been studied in simulators the real boat was almost beyond what one could imagine. It was also nice to see the public's enthusiasm for such a sailing event, we have really seen a nation behind their team, like they get behind the All Blacks. These are good signs selling the America's Cup "

How many teams for the 37th Cup?

How can we ensure that for the 37th edition there are more than four challenges at the start of a Cup for which the Challenger of Record will be Ineos and which will again be raced in AC75 (the first details including in particular a reinforced nationality rule were announced this Friday). "They should allow new teams access to the technology and the existing engineering. With 20 million euros per year, you can do something good if you have access to part of it", thinks Bertrand Pacé.

Martin Fischer adds: "We can imagine making part of the control systems one design to make it less of a headache technically and thus facilitate the entry of new teams. There will also be second-hand boats that will be for sale, a boat of the first generation can go a long way in gaining experience."

In addition to the defender and the new challenger of record, Patrizio Bertelli, boss of Luna Rossa, claimed that the Italian challenge would be probably be back next time, nothing has yet officially been heard from the side of American Magic.

What about other possible entrants? Recently asked the question, Ernesto Bertarelli, boss of Alinghi, did not rule out a return of the Swiss challenge. Several of our experts believe that Stars & Stripes had to give up before the 36th Cup kicked off, remain interested.

"We are going to have some surprises with new teams who are going to appeal to new commercial markets some very good teams with the means to win., contends Franck Cammas who is sure of his proposition, but without saying more. "That is further proof that this edition was popular and that the Cup remains attractive and addictive for those who have had a try " Including for Cammas himself who is again in the campaign to find funding: "Team France has been restructured, we have quality people, including a new president [Antoine de Véricourt], we're starting to have some interesting meetings to fund a project with a very long-term vision."

What remains to be seen is to know the exact format of the 37th edition. The possibility of a unique match in Cowes between Emirates Team New Zealand and Ineos has been mentioned by various media in New Zealand and Europe. Francis Hueber comments: "With Covid the final balance sheet of costs must be complicated for the New Zealanders while Ineos have plenty of money, they want to win, so it's a good guess. But I think it would be a bit too much for the Kiwis to pass it on to their supporters and the Cup's community as they regularly complain about teams that have plenty of money. And if it all happens in a short time, for example in 2022, and everything else is in place that may allow new teams to start their development or to see money for an event with visibility which can be interesting."

Interesting read, I liked Cammas and Presti's comments. 

I thought there was quite a bit of designer snout in the trough, and Pace's comment about budgets will sink a lot of potentials.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, The Advocate said:

Fuck that is cool. Not because of the class though, the tech.

Yeah sure is mate, we first saw it used in Bermuda B)

Link to post
Share on other sites

As with the other days racing inAC36 I provided a 'Days report' to the Editor for Day 7 (Race 10). He decided to go with ANarchist David's piece of (insert your own description)

For those who are interested here it is. I know the editor received it as the piece on the front page is a direct cut & paste of the part about the new CoR even down to the error that Aaron Young is the RNZYS Commodore, not the RYS Commodore as I wrote- ha ha.

You can like it, down vote it or just ignore it, frankly I don't give a f*** anymore

I have a lot of respect for the America's Cup, perhaps from spending time with my writing mentor Bob Fisher and have no time for those who belittle one of the pinnacles of our sport

So I'm done - at least for a while.

Have at it!

THE FINAL COUNTDOWN

 

Today was always going to be all on. The weight of a nation hoping and expecting Burling and his team to seal the deal while Luna Rossa needed to win ever one of the remaining races to upset the apple cart.

And if anyone was in any doubt as to the interest, there were an estimated 3,000 boats on the water and no free space at all in the race village,

The first 3 days saw honours shared but bit by bit the Kiwis seemed to be knocking the rust off their 3 raceless months. Day 4 meant they put in the wedge winning both races compounding that with a win in the best race of The Cup so far.

Sailing a fast boat a) makes you look good and b) certainly helps the confidence as well.

One area where criticism has been aimed at Te Rehutai was the start box but in Race 10 where the chips were certainly down they absolutely nailed it, and did so cleverly.

In what looked like a planned move the NZL boat hung back just a little rather than fighting for the ‘committee boat’ end placing them slightly behind LRPP but preventing them tacking to the favoured right hand side, and over ETNZ went, Burling was clearly on fire.

It was clear from the pre-start where Burling fooled everyone with, when Burling went into a tack in the pre-start even Nathan saying ‘ Jimmy Spithill will try to shut them out’ with Ken Read ‘he’s in an interesting spot here’ but Burling was weaving, burning off position, he clearly didn’t want to mix it and with the half the start line to play with and sitting on LRPP’s hip it was ETNZ which was free to tack away early onto the right hand side of the course. When he needed to Burling nailed it.

Both boats went to the boundary LRPP to th left and ETNZ to the right with an initial lead showing to the Kiwis and at the first cross tacked on top of the Italians forcing them back to the left.

Half way up Leg 1 the lead moved t the Italians (Lead Change 1) but as they met again Luna Rossa had to dip the Kiwis (Lead Change 2) crossing at around 30 kts. Lead at Mark 1 was around 100m or 7 seconds.

Down leg 2 the NZL lead went up to over 200m but was on a bungee cord and for once Te Rehutai didn’t just sail off into the sunset.

At the first bottom mark both teams didn’t have their best rounding. Up the second beat though the Kiwis started to extend  to over 300m and it was already looking like it would take a mistake by the them for them to lose the race. Quite the opposite they tacked right on the wind of the Italians giving them bad air. The loose cover was effective and ETNZ hit the half way point of the race 27 seconds to the good.

Down the second ‘run’ the New Zealand lead at times surpassed 600m and it was already starting to look like an impossible task for Spithill, Bruni et al.

Up the final beat the lead rarely dropped much below 500m leading to a mark rounding 49 seconds up. If it wasn’t all over before the baring a major gear failure it was now. So it proved to be with Emirates Team New Zealand crossing the finish line 46 seconds ahead. This was a race where the Kiwis knew what they wanted from the start and at the start and basically controlled the whole race from the get go. I had to chuckle with Steve McIvor’s comment as they crossed the line that the team had ”proved that Kiwis can fly” (the Kiwi is a New Zealand flightless bird BTW). He maybe doesn’t know a great deal about yacht racing but he has had some pearlers of one-liners.

The reception for the team, in effect, started on the tow back with waves and shouts from the returning spectator fleet as Te Ruhutai was towed back towards Viaduct Harbour and received rapturous applause as they entered the basin.

Interviews ensued as the team soaked up the atmosphere. Meanwhile on the feed’s ‘Top Chat’ some were impatient for the presentation. These guys have worked for almost 4 years for this moment – let them enjoy it I say.

I loved the tradition of the Maori Chiefs welcoming ETNZ across the bridge and shows how natives and incomers can show respect to each other. Sorry if that sounds almost touching on the political but it had to be said because it was there.

Another little piece of ‘tradition’ was the MC for the trophy presentation was the ‘Voice of the America’s Cup’ Peter Montgomery who shared that duty with Bruno Trouble who put together the original Challenger Series way back in the ‘80’s.

Luna Rossa’s Max Serena was gracious when his team were announced on stage but the real wildness from the crowd started when the NZL sailing team took to the stage, then the whole team, everyone involved in any way with the defence.

That Cup is going to need a lot of washing and polishing after all that champagne and handling – but who would dare begrudge them their glory.. What a waste of good champagne though.

SO where from here.

We have it on very good authority that subject to the required paperwork being completed that the Royal Yacht Squadron Commodore Aaron Young was not just there for the party and that the new Challenger of Record will indeed be GBR’s Royal Yacht Squadron.

Yes, for once the rumours and scuttlebutt were true and the next Cup will be Squadron against Squadron and of course anyone else who wants to join in.

A fitting day’s racing to cap off a first class event.

'Stay well guys, i might pop into the forums from time to time.

or - See ya on the Water

Shanghai Sailor

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Advocate said:

Interesting read, I liked Cammas and Presti's comments. 

I thought there was quite a bit of designer snout in the trough, and Pace's comment about budgets will sink a lot of potentials.

Nice Find Advocate

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...