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AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


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In a live chat in italian (see italian luna rossa thread) two hours ago Checco  Bruni said that the measurement day scheduling didn't change with the race postponement. But he also said that discussion on the matter was under way in that very moment and that for them it's the same.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, sosoomii said:

Very flawed statistical study...

If not lockdown what do you think reversed the two lift offs around May and this month in the UK charts? Switching the 5g signal off?

Want to talk flawed?  Your response is flawed.  What part of WINTER (like the last couple of months) lockdowns did you not understand?  I have no data for May and no data for the UK nor did I claim to.  Perchance you should read my post again.

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11 minutes ago, strider470 said:

In a live chat in italian (see italian luna rossa thread) two hours ago Checco  Bruni said that the measurement day scheduling didn't change with the race postponement. But he also said that discussion on the matter was under way in that very moment and that for them it's the same.

So..  He said they want to keep the freeze-date as-is?? 

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With all this talk that maybe LR can point higher but TR is faster... can anyone remember a Match where a boat pointed higher but lost the Match?  My memory is that the boat that points higher always wins (2003 may be an exception as the NZ boat disintegrated) - but maybe I'm wrong?

It doesn't mean that a faster boat can't beat a higher pointing boat but still...

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4 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Yes I am confused as well by this " and that for them it's the same. " @strider470

 

6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

So..  He said they want to keep the freeze-date as-is?? 

Sorry, I was not very clear.

The question was if together with the postponement of the first race, the yacht declaration was postponed as well.

Bruni answered: At this very moment measurement is still scheduled today, at 4.00 pm, and nothing changed. Lawyers are at work right now to see if it will be postponed. This eventuality doesn't affect our team, in case we are ready. But I don't think a 4 days postponement of the measurement day would affect us or Team New Zealand.

 

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8 minutes ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

With all this talk that maybe LR can point higher but TR is faster... can anyone remember a Match where a boat pointed higher but lost the Match?  My memory is that the boat that points higher always wins (2003 may be an exception as the NZ boat disintegrated) - but maybe I'm wrong?

It doesn't mean that a faster boat can't beat a higher pointing boat but still...

Whilst yes I agree, I think being a new class of boat we will have to wait and see. Could well be that there are big gains going low and fast in these things.

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3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

 

Sorry, I was not very clear.

The question was if together with the postponement of the first race, the yacht declaration was postponed as well.

Bruni answered: At this very moment measurement is still scheduled today, at 4.00 pm, and nothing changed. Lawyers are at work right now to see if it will be postponed. This eventuality doesn't affect our team, in case we are ready. But I don't think a 4 days postponement of the measurement day would affect us or Team New Zealand.

 

Grazie mille!

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14 minutes ago, strider470 said:

 

Sorry, I was not very clear.

The question was if together with the postponement of the first race, the yacht declaration was postponed as well.

Bruni answered: At this very moment measurement is still scheduled today, at 4.00 pm, and nothing changed. Lawyers are at work right now to see if it will be postponed. This eventuality doesn't affect our team, in case we are ready. But I don't think a 4 days postponement of the measurement day would affect us or Team New Zealand.

 

Perhaps, at this stage, the declaration timing is no longer relevant.
Both teams have worked very hard within the schedule established a long time ago. It is unlikely there is any major hardware change (given how strict the  rules are) they have not tried or tested. It seems also that the improvement we saw in LRPP in the Prada Cup Final was more a consequence of fine-tuning boat handling and crew interactions than changes in the boat.
Thanks @strider470.

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24 minutes ago, strider470 said:

 

Sorry, I was not very clear.

The question was if together with the postponement of the first race, the yacht declaration was postponed as well.

Bruni answered: At this very moment measurement is still scheduled today, at 4.00 pm, and nothing changed. Lawyers are at work right now to see if it will be postponed. This eventuality doesn't affect our team, in case we are ready. But I don't think a 4 days postponement of the measurement day would affect us or Team New Zealand.

 

Interesting, thanks for the clarification. 
 

My guess is that both teams will want to postpone the measure date, guess we’ll see. 

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

Interesting, thanks for the clarification. 
 

My guess is that both teams will want to postpone the measure date, guess we’ll see. 

I'm curious to see the outcome

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3 minutes ago, strider470 said:

I'm curious to see the outcome

It’s possible that any agreement will include not only the 120 hours but also an alteration of the measurement terms. 
 

Curious too, it’s actually a very interesting/fun subject. 

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

It’s possible that any agreement will include not only the 120 hours but also an alteration of the measurement terms. 
 

Curious too, it’s actually a very interesting/fun subject. 

I think to change anything other than the declaration time would be a stretch. There is no cause to.

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And when we go and watch the Kiwi's sail, they can turn on some really impressive performance

....

What we have seen of their performance is pretty scary. If we had ended up racing we would be quite intimidated. If we were going to be the challenger we would have been intimidated by some of the performance we have seen.

Grant Simmer Team GB 

 

 

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3 hours ago, sosoomii said:

Certainly not minor in the UK despite the fact we’ve been in lockdown for nearly a year now.

Which is proof perhaps that unless you live in a country with substantial natural borders and a small population that lockdowns are a dumb fucking idea?

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Any update?

---------------------------------

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/124390306/americas-cup-start-of-the-match-was-already-under-threat-now-teams-maximise-delay

While racing has been put on hold the schedule for the declaration and measurement hasn’t. That was still set for 4pm Monday, meaning all the major kit on the boats, such as the foils and rudder, for the final will be locked in.

The two teams won’t be able to change or adjust the major appendages, but they can spend the week getting better acquainted with them under sailing conditions.

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1 minute ago, strider470 said:

Any update?

---------------------------------

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/124390306/americas-cup-start-of-the-match-was-already-under-threat-now-teams-maximise-delay

While racing has been put on hold the schedule for the declaration and measurement hasn’t. That was still set for 4pm Monday, meaning all the major kit on the boats, such as the foils and rudder, for the final will be locked in.

The two teams won’t be able to change or adjust the major appendages, but they can spend the week getting better acquainted with them under sailing conditions.

If they can sail during the week why can’t they race?

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Just now, sailman said:

If they can sail during the week why can’t they race?

I think they didn't get the exemption to race under level 3 lockdown, only for training. To avoid gathering of people.

My question was about the measurement day.

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Just now, sailman said:

If they can sail during the week why can’t they race?

Because the people that in part funded the regatta want to be able to watch it in person.

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4 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Because the people that in part funded the regatta want to be able to watch it in person.

Should LR care? Their ‘Prada’ (main team and AC36 event sponsor) audience is all watching it on TV.. 

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2 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Because the people that in part funded the regatta want to be able to watch it in person.

But this is level 3, not level 2 as in the Prada Cup. An explicit exemption from the government was required to race, in case.

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13 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Which is proof perhaps that unless you live in a country with substantial natural borders and a small population that lockdowns are a dumb fucking idea?

We live on an island, broadly similar in population to NZ and yet we have had the longest lockdown of any country in Europe. And though we did make remarkable progress in lowering the rates of infection, 3 weeks of release from lockdown over Christmas and calamity followed. Without rigorously closing borders it’s virtually impossible to stem the flow. So yes, in logic you’re right but for us, it didn’t work. . 

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2 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Because the people that in part funded the regatta want to be able to watch it in person.

So NZ isn’t hiding the fact that this is a business and the sailing is secondary.  High jacking the AC brand (like Ellison and Berterelli) for profit rather than sport.

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4 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Because the people that in part funded the regatta want to be able to watch it in person.

I’d suggest it’s to afford the locals the opportunity to watch it given that their taxes helped made it happen. 

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I fully support Cindy’s efforts, the possibility to keep a lid on it is.. brilliant for peoples’ health and safety. The risk implications, financial and otherwise, make this path the best one for ‘team NZ.’ 

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2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

We live on an island, broadly similar in population to NZ and yet we have had the longest lockdown of any country in Europe. And though we did make remarkable progress in lowering the rates of infection, 3 weeks of release from lockdown over Christmas and calamity followed. Without rigorously closing borders it’s virtually impossible to stem the flow. So yes, in logic you’re right but for us, it didn’t work. . 

I'm assuming you are in Ireland?

Remember that you are in VERY close proximity to other countries.

We are about 1500 km from the nearest other country.

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2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

I’d suggest it’s to afford the locals the opportunity to watch it given that their taxes helped made it happen. 

That's what I said.

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4 minutes ago, sailman said:

So NZ isn’t hiding the fact that this is a business and the sailing is secondary.  High jacking the AC brand (like Ellison and Berterelli) for profit rather than sport.

I thought that had been well established. The AC has always been a circus rather than a regatta though, so nothing new there really.

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

I fully support Cindy’s efforts, the possibility to keep a lid on it is.. brilliant for peoples’ health and safety. The implications, financial and otherwise, make this path the best one for ‘team NZ.’ 

I probably should know but why do the locals call her ‘Cindy’. No problem with nicknames, we’re good at them choosing to call one of our prime ministers BIFFO .... big ignorant fucker from Offaly :lol:

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Just now, Paddywackery said:

I probably should know but why do the locals call her ‘Cindy’. No problem with nicknames, we’re good at them choosing to call one of our prime ministers BIFFO .... big ignorant fucker from Offaly :lol:

Cindy <-> JaCINDa

I like to top it off with a Malibu Cindy as in Malibu Barbie ;)

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2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

I probably should know but why do the locals call her ‘Cindy’. No problem with nicknames, we’re good at them choosing to call one of our prime ministers BIFFO .... big ignorant fucker from Offaly :lol:

Oops, I forgot.. in her previous career I think it was ‘Candy’?

:) I may have been mistaken about her current nickname. 

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I'm assuming you are in Ireland?

Remember that you are in VERY close proximity to other countries.

We are about 1500 km from the nearest other country.

Yes jaysper, I live in Ireland on a rock in the Atlantic within spitting distance of the UK our biggest trading partner. We also have the North of Ireland with no border on our island so it’s pretty difficult to seal it up. 

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1 minute ago, Paddywackery said:

Candy? After the Italian washing machine?

:D Or after ‘Cinderella’? 
 

I listen to news and current-events across a variety of channels, BBC included and so I will claim to be fairly aware. And to be honest, there is no national leader that I admire more for dealing with this f’ing pandemic over the past year, than Jacinda Adern. Rock solid! 

 

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15 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

We live on an island, broadly similar in population to NZ and yet we have had the longest lockdown of any country in Europe. And though we did make remarkable progress in lowering the rates of infection, 3 weeks of release from lockdown over Christmas and calamity followed. Without rigorously closing borders it’s virtually impossible to stem the flow. So yes, in logic you’re right but for us, it didn’t work. . 

Exactly, there are lockdowns and there are Lockdowns. 
On one hand if every individual isolated totally for say 21 days that would be the end of COVID. On the other hand there is reality. 

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

:D Or after ‘Cinderella’? 
 

I listen to news and current-events across a variety of channels, BBC included and so I will claim to be fairly aware. And to be honest, there is no national leader that I admire more for dealing with this f’ing pandemic over the past year, than Jacinda Adern. Rock solid! 

 

Thats what we’re being told by most media over here. 

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2 minutes ago, amc said:

Exactly, there are lockdowns and there are Lockdowns. 
On one hand if every individual isolated totally for say 21 days that would be the end of COVID. On the other hand there is reality. 

And the reality is that it’s virtually impossible and that’s without counting the knobs who don’t and won’t comply. 

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13 hours ago, Rushman said:

Here in Victoria, Australia...I have heard that any death in a nursing home is recorded as COVID.  There are significant $$$$ to claim for “COVID cleaning” from Dictator Dan, so the nursing homes are grabbing as much as they can.

except the feds are responsible for nursing homes...

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4 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

Thats what we’re being told by most media over here. 

The pandemic was her god send.

Without everyone shitting their pants over it, she would likely have been ousted at the election.

She has managed to fuck up absolutely everything she has attempted. I've not seen anything like it since the fuckwit we got rid of in the mid-80s.

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8 minutes ago, amc said:

Exactly, there are lockdowns and there are Lockdowns. 
On one hand if every individual isolated totally for say 21 days that would be the end of COVID. On the other hand there is reality. 

Would most likely also be the end of a lot of economies. Let's not forget, the experts told us 14 days to flatten the curve would do it.

I am an essential worker, my partner is not. How do we isolate properly? Who will pay for that? With all the hand outs around COVID that have happened in AUS, I haven't seen one cent of it.

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2 hours ago, 1eyedkiwi said:

With all this talk that maybe LR can point higher but TR is faster... can anyone remember a Match where a boat pointed higher but lost the Match?  My memory is that the boat that points higher always wins (2003 may be an exception as the NZ boat disintegrated) - but maybe I'm wrong?

It doesn't mean that a faster boat can't beat a higher pointing boat but still...

Your confusing the matter by saying point higher. It's called VMG and the boat with the best VMG always wins. It is possible that ETNZ could have better VMG but not quite point as high as Luna Rossa but I doubt this? Luna Rossa have showed they have a high mode they use to force the other boat to tack away but this was relative to Ineos. We don't know yet how this high mode will work against the Kiwis as they may have the same or a higher mode again? I think the Kiwis will be able to point as high as Luna Rossa and we saw this in the earlier racing where they were usually the highest boat.

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5 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Would most likely also be the end of a lot of economies. Let's not forget, the experts told us 14 days to flatten the curve would do it.

I am an essential worker, my partner is not. How do we isolate properly? Who will pay for that? With all the hand outs around COVID that have happened in AUS, I haven't seen one cent of it.

And that is reality right there. Be safe. 

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3 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

 I think the Kiwis will be able to point as high as Luna Rossa and we saw this in the earlier racing where they were usually the highest boat.

Yes but interestingly the exception to this was LR against ETNZ in their second race - light winds - LR appeared to far better VMG on first leg up wind by pointing higher while matching their speed and, it appeared, would have easily won if the winds didn't drop away.

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3 hours ago, Norberto said:

... the only difference being PRADA Cup was well under way, while AC has not even started yet.

So you will be able to celebrate a "Non Sporting Event" and "retain the Cup"  ...

you must be mighty proud to be a "winner" without doing ANYTHING ....  :(

I was stating the facts as they relate to the rules, just like COR did.

ETNZ (and their fans including me) want to win this on the water.

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58 minutes ago, jaysper said:
1 hour ago, Paddywackery said:

Thats what we’re being told by most media over here. 

The pandemic was her god send.

Without everyone shitting their pants over it, she would likely have been ousted at the election.

She has managed to fuck up absolutely everything she has attempted. I've not seen anything like it since the fuckwit we got rid of in the mid-80s.

Oh, where would we be without your ineffable, well-cast wisdom!

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3 hours ago, Norberto said:

.So you will be able to celebrate a "Non Sporting Event" and "retain the Cup"  ...

you must be mighty proud to be a "winner" without doing ANYTHING ....  :(

I would hate them to do that, the Iralians would find a reason to go to the NYSC and it would be a legal shit storm as we have not seen for long. Bertarelli can sustain that, not Dalton with his sponsors. Could be AC fun, but Dalton cannot afford to take that risk.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

The pandemic was her god send.

Without everyone shitting their pants over it, she would likely have been ousted at the election.

In order for this to have happened there would've needed to be a viable opposition candidate... National continue to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...

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7 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

In order for this to have happened there would've needed to be a viable opposition candidate... National continue to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...

You are not wrong but they are up against a hostile media. I notice in today's announcement, we are encouraged to dob in friends, neighbours and family. If the Nats suggested something like that, the media would be going ape shit.

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1 hour ago, Paddywackery said:

We live on an island, broadly similar in population to NZ and yet we have had the longest lockdown of any country in Europe. And though we did make remarkable progress in lowering the rates of infection, 3 weeks of release from lockdown over Christmas and calamity followed. Without rigorously closing borders it’s virtually impossible to stem the flow. So yes, in logic you’re right but for us, it didn’t work. 

Because you had a Clayton's lockdown. The lockdown you have when you don't have a lockdown.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

I'm assuming you are in Ireland?

Remember that you are in VERY close proximity to other countries.

We are about 1500 km from the nearest other country.

I don't think anyone's swimming the Irish Sea.

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1 hour ago, Paddywackery said:

I probably should know but why do the locals call her ‘Cindy’. No problem with nicknames, we’re good at them choosing to call one of our prime ministers BIFFO .... big ignorant fucker from Offaly :lol:

It's a diminutive to diminish her.

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8 minutes ago, southseasbill said:

You are not wrong but they are up against a hostile media. I notice in today's announcement, we are encouraged to dob in friends, neighbours and family. If the Nats suggested something like that, the media would be going ape shit.

I believe the comment today was to call them out, not call it in... but do it kindly...

'Kia ora boys, nice jackets with those patches on the back, any chance you could hop on your bikes and each head to your respective abodes? much love!"

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

The pandemic was her god send.

Without everyone shitting their pants over it, she would likely have been ousted at the election.

She has managed to fuck up absolutely everything she has attempted. I've not seen anything like it since the fuckwit we got rid of in the mid-80s.

She is not the only prime minister for whom the pandemic is a god send.

Best way to get reelected is to claim they protect the people with worthless measures and the frightened Panurge muttons vote for them.

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2 hours ago, The Advocate said:

Would most likely also be the end of a lot of economies. Let's not forget, the experts told us 14 days to flatten the curve would do it.

I am an essential worker, my partner is not. How do we isolate properly? Who will pay for that? With all the hand outs around COVID that have happened in AUS, I haven't seen one cent of it.

I just watched the latest press conference. Ardern comprehensively listed the payments available, maybe a couple of times. If someone's missing out on work and not getting recompensed there'd appear to be an error somewhere.

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3 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

She is not the only prime minister for whom the pandemic is a god send.

Best way to get reelected is to claim they protect the people with worthless measures and the frightened Panurge muttons vote for them.

Fuck off moron troll.

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3 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

I just watched the latest press conference. Ardern comprehensively listed the payments available, maybe a couple of times. If someone's missing out on work and not getting recompensed there'd appear to be an error somewhere.

Did you actually read what I wrote?

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8 hours ago, The Advocate said:

FFS, I never said COVID wasn't an issue. The context of what I was saying is that more deaths are being attributed to it than are actually COVID deaths. That is the context I was responding to with excess deaths.

When governments give financial incentives to report a specific medical condition, what the fuck do you think is going to happen?

you may have noticed in the last year or 5

some politicians and some governments are different to others

 

most are pretty brain dead

most lie ( assume all for safety )

but not all are pathological liars

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

She is not the only prime minister for whom the pandemic is a god send.

Best way to get reelected is to claim they protect the people with worthless measures and the frightened Panurge muttons vote for them.

Quite right.

Trouble is practically every single world leader has opted to fuck over the world's economy and rain the resultant death on the population than risk a single coronavirus death.

But hey, that's politics.

Kinda hard to blame them when you know the opposition would have taken the same fuckwit steps.

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4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Trouble is practically every single world leader has opted to fuck over the world's economy and rain the resultant death on the population than risk a single coronavirus death.

Incorrect, plenty of examples of leaders putting the economy over health. The UK, US, Sweden, Brazil.......They scored the double......fucked their economies, and killed hundreds of thousands. NZ/Aus may have damaged their economies, but you can rebuild those.....can't bring back the dead. I know which one I thinks better.

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8 hours ago, The Advocate said:

FFS, I never said COVID wasn't an issue. The context of what I was saying is that more deaths are being attributed to it than are actually COVID deaths. That is the context I was responding to with excess deaths.

When governments give financial incentives to report a specific medical condition, what the fuck do you think is going to happen?

Just about all the medical professionals I read say COVID deaths are under reported.

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8 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Incorrect, plenty of examples of leaders putting the economy over health. The UK, US, Sweden, Brazil.......They scored the double......fucked their economies, and killed hundreds of thousands. NZ/Aus may have damaged their economies, but you can rebuild those.....can't bring back the dead. I know which one I thinks better.

Really? I suggest you retract your comment about US and UK immediately. I'm sorry, but there is wrong and there is so fucking dead wrong.

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Just now, The Advocate said:

Yes. Why would I care what Cindy said about your payments when I live in Australia?

Oh. The mapping function in my browser has your location in Henderson, Auckland.

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Just now, jaysper said:

Really? I suggest you retract your comment about US and UK immediately. I'm sorry, but there is wrong and there is so fucking dead wrong.

And he was dead right about the US and the UK.

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2 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

Oh. The mapping function in my browser has your location in Henderson, Auckland.

I actually said "in AUS", in my post, so did you really read what I wrote?

Guess not.

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2 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

I actually said "in AUS", in my post, so did you really read what I wrote?

Guess not.

Yes. Your location is in Henderson, Auckland. Where do you mention you are in Aus?

"With all the hand outs around COVID that have happened in AUS, I haven't seen one cent of it." 

 

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9 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I suggest you retract your comment about US and UK immediately.

Sorry, not happening. They bought into the bullshit that you can somehow shield the elderly and vulnerable, then let the virus burn out through the young and healthy population. It's a callous and genocidal view that deserves instant dismissal.

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I fully support Cindy’s efforts, the possibility to keep a lid on it is.. brilliant for peoples’ health and safety. The risk implications, financial and otherwise, make this path the best one for ‘team NZ.’ 

+ 1

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