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AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)


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10 minutes ago, Status quo said:

Could you explain how a Social removal of freedom's is an effective way of combating a supposedly apocalyptical pandemic when you still let a great deal of the same people that  have had there Social freedom's removed go to work together ?  At best logic would indicate its a bit like turning the tap down. Your transmissions might slow a little but your bath is still filling up.  We have been told we need to stay home to protect the health services. But its ok to go to the supermarket or garden center. Doctor's and nurses matter but check out clerks and shelf stackers we are not that fused about is the flip side of that message, I find that very disrespectful and sad.

As any one staying home or working from home they will need some services ie Electricity, WiFi , Water, Sewage , Food, Trash removal, the list goes on. All of these services need people to go out to work to provide them. The notion that a lockdown stops contact of people or transmission on surfaces is farcical. How did your product from Amazon get made , in the box, and delivered to you? Cash is dangerous but all of the food on the supermarket shelves got on there on its own and no one before you touched it!

And to end here is a bit of light hearted fun about the press and politicians that might amuse you. 

 

 

 

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

 

 

 

 

Yes there is a virus no its not very nice but its not what the press and Politicians are telling us !

2014 called

https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2014/02/14/how-the-world-butchered-benjamin-franklins-quote-on-liberty-vs-security/amp/

That you think we've given up freedom whilst you've kept yours has to be the single greatest gaslight of a nation's population...

Google it

 

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And just to add to that record, Mozzy Sails contacted me direct to ask permission to use my photos and even offered to purchase some, by way of compensation. I am more than happy to contribute an

Just for the record, I contacted @erdb @MaxHugen @doroxand @weta27asked if they were happy me using images or graphs etc. I always try to credit them in the video and in the description as agreed.  I

I want to thank all the amazing people I had the pleasure to meet here on Sailing Anarchy during this America's Cup. It's a huge list. Brits, Irish, Kiwis, fellow Italians, French, Dutch, Americans, C

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4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Umm, I'm the one saying our government is fucked.

Go argue with the other guys.

image.thumb.png.acf034e933a2e571c2b729ad55588a87.png

The US and UK have clearly dropped the ball.

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Just now, Ncik said:

image.thumb.png.acf034e933a2e571c2b729ad55588a87.png

The US and UK have clearly dropped the ball.

Umm, sorry but you cannot take a single post out of context.

You need to go back further to understand the full gist.

My argument is AGAINST the lockdowns period.

My point was that the US & UK instigated lockdowns and still ended up fucked.

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35 minutes ago, Status quo said:

Could you explain how a Social removal of freedom's is an effective way of combating a supposedly apocalyptical pandemic when you still let a great deal of the same people that  have had there Social freedom's removed go to work together ?  At best logic would indicate its a bit like turning the tap down. Your transmissions might slow a little but your bath is still filling up.  We have been told we need to stay home to protect the health services. But its ok to go to the supermarket or garden center. Doctor's and nurses matter but check out clerks and shelf stackers we are not that fused about is the flip side of that message, I find that very disrespectful and sad.

As any one staying home or working from home they will need some services ie Electricity, WiFi , Water, Sewage , Food, Trash removal, the list goes on. All of these services need people to go out to work to provide them. The notion that a lockdown stops contact of people or transmission on surfaces is farcical. How did your product from Amazon get made , in the box, and delivered to you? Cash is dangerous but all of the food on the supermarket shelves got on there on its own and no one before you touched it!

And to end here is a bit of light hearted fun about the press and politicians that might amuse you. 

 

 

 

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

 

 

 

 

Yes there is a virus no its not very nice but its not what the press and Politicians are telling us !

Interesting way you interpreted my comment... 8)

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5 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

Oh, where would we be without your ineffable, well-cast wisdom!

Jays appeerz to be kasting hiz faek perlz for the ekscloosiv endjoyment ov reel orthentik swyne

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Another Stuff news story and it claims the Italians have more to gain with the latest delay and they are flying in new sails and a host of other gear to boost their speed. It also talks about NZ appearing to use a duel helm scenario of less transitions for Burling. Not a lot of new info but better than listening to Covid discussions me thinks. It also mentions in the end NZ using an extra large jib to make them go faster in displacement mode. Not a bad idea.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/americas-cup/124390306/americas-cup-start-of-the-match-was-already-under-threat-now-teams-maximise-delay?cid=app-iPad&fbclid=IwAR1KBAYOQf_BhPyQNGTxMq_jlGnOVbG70eMjWx6lf6L2MAXaFRckS7lWNS0

 

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25 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

The 4k footage closeup of ETNZ towards the end is mind blowing (On a 4k screen). The battle of T vs Y foils looming however not convinced this will decide the result, the overall package such as sails and control systems may achieve that. The Italians flying in a newly designed set of sails seems to confirm this.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

No, they are pointless because their populations are large and borders porous.

China and South Korea have large populations and managed the virus. 

1 hour ago, jaysper said:

we only need to ask Trump

As a rule, I would never ask that fuckwitt anything - he doesn't know shit about anything. The US southern border had absolutely nothing to do with their virus spread - not sure where you're getting this shit from? Q maybe? 

This virus spread in the US because of a complete lack of leadership from the top - no national plan, no national mask mandate, and all sorts of other stupid avoidable reasons. Half a million people need not have died. 

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39 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

The 4k footage closeup of ETNZ towards the end is mind blowing (On a 4k screen).

He was shooting through a HUGE lens

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3 minutes ago, weta27 said:

He was shooting through a HUGE lens

Envy? 8)

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1 hour ago, Status quo said:

Yes there is a virus no its not very nice but its not what the press and Politicians are telling us !

The virus is what medicos are telling us, and whose advice the smarter Govts have been following. Are you an infectious disease expert? Or have you been doing your "research" on the net - going down the stupid fucking rabbit hole, and ending up your own arse?

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https://www.americascup.com/en/news/1141_DECLARATION-TIME?fbclid=IwAR0DHZ9iPiLwJq5cX-SSO4geRts1ujjbM8Q1_0o-nbSVbw_ENCBksheW_mc

DECLARATION TIME

Monday 1 March at 16:03 local time was the deadline for both teams to define and finalise the configuration of their boats for the Match. With that deadline now passed, both teams will have laid out precisely the boat that they will use for the series with specific details on all the key areas such as the hull, rig, foils and many other areas of the boat including its precise weight

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4 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

https://www.americascup.com/en/news/1141_DECLARATION-TIME?fbclid=IwAR0DHZ9iPiLwJq5cX-SSO4geRts1ujjbM8Q1_0o-nbSVbw_ENCBksheW_mc

DECLARATION TIME

Monday 1 March at 16:03 local time was the deadline for both teams to define and finalise the configuration of their boats for the Match. With that deadline now passed, both teams will have laid out precisely the boat that they will use for the series with specific details on all the key areas such as the hull, rig, foils and many other areas of the boat including its precise weight

I think locking down the design now is the best thing to do. This means no team will be advantaged or disadvantaged by the lock down and delay in racing.

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3 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I think locking down the design now is the best thing to do. This means no team will be advantaged or disadvantaged by the lock down and delay in racing.

How would leaving the declaration @120 hours prior the first race advantaged/disadvantaged a team? I would have thought it would have given us the best event in that the teams would better know the weather pattern the races would be held in. What happens know if there is a 2 week postponement or longer?

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Oh FFS, the Salon, really? Who wears the tin foil hats?

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2 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Oh FFS, the Salon, really? Who wears the tin foil hats?

Salon's a great publication, as is Vanity Fair, NYT, Wapo, etc.....yeah, but you stick to Fox, Breitbart, Gateway Pundit, Infowars.......

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Just now, Horn Rock said:

Name your media sources?

BBC, Tim Pool, Dave Rubin, NYT, Dan Bongino, WSJ, Credlin, FiveThirtyEight, Sam Harris, Candace Owens just off the top of my head.

I like to get a spread from both sides and make up my own mind on things.

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18 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Salon's a great publication, as is Vanity Fair, NYT, Wapo, etc.....yeah, but you stick to Fox, Breitbart, Gateway Pundit, Infowars.......

TVNZ, TV3, NZH, Stuffed... $50M of taxpayer money hasn't helped balanced coverage of anything in NZ...

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51 minutes ago, weta27 said:

Total!

Yeah, know that feeling... Could never quite justify that Canon 400L lens...

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1 hour ago, mako23 said:

I think locking down the design now is the best thing to do. This means no team will be advantaged or disadvantaged by the lock down and delay in racing.

Except RG’s now advocating a really long delay for the start of the Match, until Level 1 presumably. What’s the hurry? Going towards stronger winds is just incidental

https://www.sail-world.com/news/235575/Gladwells-Line-Be-careful-for-what-you-wish-for

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49 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Candice Owens

Oh dear......that's quite an admission Mr Advocate.........

Is it? You have an issue with a young black woman having an opinion?

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13 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

You have an issue with a young black woman having an opinion?

I have many issues with her opinions. She's a toxic sack of shit.

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

I have many issues with her opinions. She's a toxic sack of shit.

Quite frankly, the only people I think are toxic sacks of shit, are the people that call other people toxic sacks of shit. They self diagnose.

 

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5 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Quite frankly, the only people I think are toxic sacks of shit, are the people that call other people toxic sacks of shit. They self diagnose.

 

By that definition your calling yourself a toxic sack of shit

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22 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Quite frankly, the only people I think are toxic sacks of shit, are the people that call other people toxic sacks of shit. They self diagnose.

Referencing Candace Owens as someone with whom you seek news and opinion, says everything about you....and it's not good........She's an extreme right shock jock, lying sack of shit.....no redeeming qualities whatsoever......To admit her as a source???? Go and get your fuckin head read you idiot......

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8 hours ago, southseasbill said:

You are not wrong but they are up against a hostile media. I notice in today's announcement, we are encouraged to dob in friends, neighbours and family. If the Nats suggested something like that, the media would be going ape shit.

Fake news and...where is antifa? Not saying they are involved,but the question needs to be asked...

Muppet

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2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

The virus is what medicos are telling us, and whose advice the smarter Govts have been following. Are you an infectious disease expert? Or have you been doing your "research" on the net - going down the stupid fucking rabbit hole, and ending up your own arse?

It's informative that on another thread, some folk with a good grasp of someone called "science" are discussing foil shapes and drag ratios...

AND NEVER ONCE STOOP TO CALLING OUT COVID SCIENCE AS HEARSAY.

You're right horny, too many fuckwits red pilled straight up their own assholes.

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2 hours ago, southseasbill said:

If you have an RF lens camera, the 100-500 L zoom has good reviews.

EF... Like the prime lenses, much sharper!

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

Referencing Candace Owens as someone with whom you seek news and opinion, says everything about you....and it's not good........She's an extreme right shock jock, lying sack of shit.....no redeeming qualities whatsoever......To admit her as a source???? Go and get your fuckin head read you idiot......

Critical thinker, I listen to a lot of opinions to form my own. You seem really bent up about a black female having an opinion.

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14 minutes ago, The Advocate said:
14 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Critical thinker, I listen to a lot of opinions to form my own.

 

Candace doesn't have anything useful to say. That's readily apparent. She's an online troll harvesting likes, and monetizing her infamy.

14 minutes ago, The Advocate said:

Critical thinker, I listen to a lot of opinions to form my own.

You see I find that strange.....I don't listen to opinions to form my own. I research facts, then form an opinion. A somewhat different process to yours.

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2 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Candace doesn't have anything useful to say. That's readily apparent. She's an online troll harvesting likes, and monetizing her infamy.

You see I find that strange.....I don't listen to opinions to form my own. I research facts, then form an opinion. A somewhat different process to yours.

I don't have the specialist knowledge to analyse a lot of the facts I am interested in understanding, so I rely on others who might be better placed than me. But hey, you understand that, it just doesn't fit the narrative you are trying to paint.

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14 hours ago, jaysper said:

Which is proof perhaps that unless you live in a country with substantial natural borders and a small population that lockdowns are a dumb fucking idea?

Except for China there has been no real lockdown that I know of. In some countries the kids went to school during "lockdown", people were allowed to meet a certain number of others during "lockdown", it was allowed to use public transportation during "lockdown" and so on. 

Most of the lockdowns were not strict enough, they just flattened the curve but stalled at a point in time and slowed the virus to spread. 

10 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Incorrect, plenty of examples of leaders putting the economy over health. The UK, US, Sweden, Brazil.......They scored the double......fucked their economies, and killed hundreds of thousands. NZ/Aus may have damaged their economies, but you can rebuild those.....can't bring back the dead. I know which one I thinks better.

Right, apparently the countries with the least strict measures will have the most screwed up economy in the end. 

6 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

China and South Korea have large populations and managed the virus. 

As a rule, I would never ask that fuckwitt anything - he doesn't know shit about anything. The US southern border had absolutely nothing to do with their virus spread - not sure where you're getting this shit from? Q maybe? 

This virus spread in the US because of a complete lack of leadership from the top - no national plan, no national mask mandate, and all sorts of other stupid avoidable reasons. Half a million people need not have died. 

China - the template for a real lockdown, drastic measures and compliant citizens. Better short and drastic than the back and forth we have now in most of the "western" countries out of fear to anger the science deniers and alu hat wearers. 

1 hour ago, The Advocate said:

Critical thinker, I listen to a lot of opinions to form my own. You seem really bent up about a black female having an opinion.

I don't know her, but getting informed by other people's opinions is kind of weird. Shouldn't it be getting informed by facts and then form the own opinion?

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11 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

I don't know her,

Check out her Twitter feed, you don't have to read for very long to get an idea what Candace is all about. She says outrageous things to provoke reaction - which is the very definition of a troll. Her views are very right wing, and she buys into a lot of the conspiracy nonsense. 

https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO

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Magnus has been off the plot for a while with little to report. Seems he has picked up on the reports that LR have some new sails just arrived and maybe some other parts. 

I am not too convinced about TR's supposed new unwind gennaker they pulled up last week. Might have been a bit of a red herring as it seems highly unlikely that a race will end up dropping into displacement mode (as happened the last time they met before Christmas). 

https://rule69blog.wordpress.com/2021/03/01/head-to-wind/

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46 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Check out her Twitter feed, you don't have to read for very long to get an idea what Candace is all about. She says outrageous things to provoke reaction - which is the very definition of a troll. Her views are very right wing, and she buys into a lot of the conspiracy nonsense. 

https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO

I hadn't heard of her, but as you said, it took just a few twitter comments to see she is a stalwart Trumpist.

I haven't missed anything.

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49 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Magnus has been off the plot for a while with little to report. Seems he has picked up on the reports that LR have some new sails just arrived and maybe some other parts. 

I am not too convinced about TR's supposed new unwind gennaker they pulled up last week. Might have been a bit of a red herring as it seems highly unlikely that a race will end up dropping into displacement mode (as happened the last time they met before Christmas). 

https://rule69blog.wordpress.com/2021/03/01/head-to-wind/

Slipped back into to the INEOS poking too and aren’t the Italians wonderful routine, wonderfully predictable.. 

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52 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Check out her Twitter feed, you don't have to read for very long to get an idea what Candace is all about. She says outrageous things to provoke reaction - which is the very definition of a troll. Her views are very right wing, and she buys into a lot of the conspiracy nonsense. 

https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO

We get it, everyone who thinks differently from your opinion is a lying sack of shit. 

 

Can we stick to sailing please? Your shit belongs in PA, not here. 

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17 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Can we stick to sailing please?

There isn't any sailing, so we wander off into our partisan dispositions.......Everyone is incredibly bored.......Nothing like a left right feud to while away the time......

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5 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

There isn't any sailing, so we wander off into our partisan dispositions.......Everyone is incredibly bored.......Nothing like a left right feud to while away the time......

I'm not bored... I'm busy working on my improbable version of a foil that can transition from pre-cavitating to super-cavitating, for when the AC75s hit 60 knots... 70 knots... 80...

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10 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I'm busy working on my improbable version of a foil that can transition from pre-cavitating to super-cavitating, for when the AC75s hit 60 knots... 70 knots... 80...

Well, at least you've got something to do Max.......I wonder what you do in the wee hours......

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Slipped back into to the INEOS poking too and aren’t the Italians wonderful routine, wonderfully predictable.. 

Yes. I guess ETNZ have not sent him a Emirates ticket yet and he wants to make sure he gets a new handbag for his wife and a trip to Cagliari. Fortunately he has worked hard to mend all the early damage with the frackers so might even get a paid trip to Pompey.

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15 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

^^^^ A variable geometry foil......Looks good Max.

Ironically, both of those foil profiles actually do work reasonably in XFoil.  :P

Maybe for AC37?

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23 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Yes. I guess ETNZ have not sent him a Emirates ticket yet and he wants to make sure he gets a new handbag for his wife and a trip to Cagliari. Fortunately he has worked hard to mend all the early damage with the frackers so might even get a paid trip to Pompey.

on good authority he very much hasn't. 

 

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6 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Ironically, both of those foil profiles actually do work reasonably in XFoil.  :P

Maybe for AC37?

The only bug in the ointment I can see is if those hinge mechanisms can handle the loads of a six and half ton boat, plus righting leverage from the rig....forces would be huge.......

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

The only bug in the ointment I can see is if those hinge mechanisms can handle the loads of a six and half ton boat, plus righting leverage from the rig....forces would be huge.......

The only bug?   I wish... :D

Sufficient strength in the two foil surfaces... the foil assembly would need to rotate for variable AoA... ventilating the rear of the foil to increase the cavitation bubble pressure ...

Did I mention it was improbable?

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29 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

The only bug in the ointment I can see is if those hinge mechanisms can handle the loads of a six and half ton boat, plus righting leverage from the rig....forces would be huge.......

 

17 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

The only bug?   I wish... :D

Sufficient strength in the two foil surfaces... the foil assembly would need to rotate for variable AoA... ventilating the rear of the foil to increase the cavitation bubble pressure ...

Did I mention it was improbable?

An eccentric cam doing the opening perhaps?

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23 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Did I mention it was improbable?

You concept is good though....I'm from the engineering school of fix everything with a hammer and screwdriver, so obviously totally qualified to appraise these things.......

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2 minutes ago, Physalia said:

An eccentric cam doing the opening perhaps?

That might work.  There are major restictions in available area between the foil surfaces when "collapsed" which is challenging though.

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

You concept is good though....I'm from the engineering school of fix everything with a hammer and screwdriver, so obviously totally qualified to appraise these things.......

I think Paul Larsen went to the same school... then persevered with his concept until SailRocket smashed the sailing speed record.

Anyway, it's kinda fun down the rabbit hole.    image.png.d66ca83844241962fb98869fc1ae2df7.png

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8 hours ago, Xlot said:

Except RG’s now advocating a really long delay for the start of the Match, until Level 1 presumably. What’s the hurry? Going towards stronger winds is just incidental

https://www.sail-world.com/news/235575/Gladwells-Line-Be-careful-for-what-you-wish-for

Playing with the winds is always a dangerous game.. one can never really know where it ends up 

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18 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

That might work.  There are major restictions in available area between the foil surfaces when "collapsed" which is challenging though.

How about retractable flaps?

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8 minutes ago, mauriciogfj said:

How about retractable flaps?

Flaps are only useful when the foil is in sub-cavitation mode, and with the current concept there is very little internal area aft to accommodate retractable flaps. They would help though.

I had originally thought to start with the super-cavitating profile, and add a collapsing retractable section that would effectively become the aft section for a sub-cav profile. This had the effect of increasing the foil chord as well as theoretically creating a decent trailing section.

However, apart from any practical considerations, I had problems creating such a profile that XFoil could resolve, so I passed on that thought.

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4 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Except for China there has been no real lockdown that I know of.

Actually the first lockdown in Italy was a serious one. Country was militarized, police patrolling with helicopters and drones, etc... 
Outcome: in 2 months almost no COVID. At the beginning of summer we had less than 200 cases per day. One step from eradicating the fucking thing.

Then Summer kicked in, and tourism is about 20% of italian GDP. And everybody was having an Italian summer.

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10 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

The virus is what medicos are telling us, and whose advice the smarter Govts have been following. Are you an infectious disease expert? Or have you been doing your "research" on the net - going down the stupid fucking rabbit hole, and ending up your own arse?

Just the World health organization ! 

Were do you get yours ? 

The PCR is not as reliable as we had though it was !

https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2021-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users-2020-05 

WHO currently does not recommend COVID-19 vaccination of travellers unless they belong to a high-risk group (including older persons are those with underlying medical conditions)

  

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/interim-position-paper-considerations-regarding-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-for-international-travellers

 

Now please wake up and stop doing what the people that wanted Hitler and Lenin did for all our sakes before its to late for all of us ! Yes including you. 

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Oh FFS - you are so transparent!

1 minute ago, Status quo said:

The PCR is not as reliable as we had though it was !

https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2021-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users-2020-05 

So tell us, how realiable did we think it was?!?! What you are trying to imply with your commentary and posting of that article just demomstrates you don't understand what you are talking about..

1 minute ago, Status quo said:

WHO currently does not recommend COVID-19 vaccination of travellers unless they belong to a high-risk group (including older persons are those with underlying medical conditions)

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/interim-position-paper-considerations-regarding-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-for-international-travellers

 

Now please wake up and stop doing what the people that wanted Hitler and Lenin did for all our sakes before its to late for all of us ! Yes including you. 

And for the removal of doubt you do it twice - again, what do you think that article is trying to say/do?

1 minute ago, Status quo said:

Now please wake up and stop doing what the people that wanted Hitler and Lenin did for all our sakes before its to late for all of us ! Yes including you. 

And then just to top it off, you invoke Godwin's law

Seriously, where do these people come from, and why now?

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28 minutes ago, Thewas said:

Actually the first lockdown in Italy was a serious one. Country was militarized, police patrolling with helicopters and drones, etc... 
Outcome: in 2 months almost no COVID. At the beginning of summer we had less than 200 cases per day. One step from eradicating the fucking thing.

Then Summer kicked in, and tourism is about 20% of italian GDP. And everybody was having an Italian summer.

You are right, apologies. France was locked up during wave 1 also pretty bad. But none of these countries welded the doors shut of quarantined people.

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43 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

Flaps are only useful when the foil is in sub-cavitation mode, and with the current concept there is very little internal area aft to accommodate retractable flaps. They would help though.

I had originally thought to start with the super-cavitating profile, and add a collapsing retractable section that would effectively become the aft section for a sub-cav profile. This had the effect of increasing the foil chord as well as theoretically creating a decent trailing section.

However, apart from any practical considerations, I had problems creating such a profile that XFoil could resolve, so I passed on that thought.

This is probably really dumb for a reason that I don't quite see, but: The Russian Shkval torpedo, as I understand, achieves super-cavitation via part of the rocket engine exhaust gasses being directed ahead of the vehicle body. Would it be possible to do something similar by adding perforations to a sub-cavitating profile with a connected air passage up to the surface via the foil arm?  One would think the pressure drop on the lifted surface would be enough to suck in all kinds of air.

I look forward to learning where my though error lies...

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current rules preventing  surface penetrations, ducting of air and active deformation of a surface ( thats more the hinge adjustable profile foil idea though)

the rules lot are no fun

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So both boats are now measured and cannot change their configuration. What ever we see from now on is race ready AC75 configuration. No more mods, no more testing, no more new equipment. What we see is what we get. Bring it on!

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18 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

current rules preventing  surface penetrations, ducting of air and active deformation of a surface ( thats more the hinge adjustable profile foil idea though)

the rules lot are no fun

Thanks for sending me down that rabbit hole ;-) The nail in the coffin lies in section 8.8: 

"Devices and finishes whose primary purpose is to reduce friction drag by altering the structure of the boundary layer are prohibited. This prohibition includes, but is not limited to, electric, magnetic, sonic, thermal and chemical devices, patterned or textured finishes and LEBUs. This rule does not prohibit passive surface features, such as fences or vortex generators, which extend outside the local boundary layer."

So it would seem to take some very devious sea-lawyering to get around that. I would still love to know what the physical flaws in such arrangement would be...

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46 minutes ago, Physalia said:

This is probably really dumb for a reason that I don't quite see, but: The Russian Shkval torpedo, as I understand, achieves super-cavitation via part of the rocket engine exhaust gasses being directed ahead of the vehicle body. Would it be possible to do something similar by adding perforations to a sub-cavitating profile with a connected air passage up to the surface via the foil arm?  One would think the pressure drop on the lifted surface would be enough to suck in all kinds of air.

I look forward to learning where my though error lies...

I recall reading with interest about the Shkal some years ago. It uses super-cavitation in a different way to what the SailRocket foil did though. The system surrounded the entire torpedo in an envelope of vapour/exhaust gases to reduce drag which allowed it to reach very high speeds. A flat plate at the nose initiated cavitation and the exhaust was fed into the cavitation bubble that was produced, which then travelled the length of the torpedo.

The super-cavitating foil used by SailRocket was shaped so that cavitation was initiated at the sharp leading edge, and the resultant water vapour flowed along the foil surfaces in a very thin layer without separating until it reached the abrupt trailing edge, where it formed the cav bubble. In essence, you could say that the water vapour became the boundary layer along the foil.

The cavitation bubble, being at very low pressure, caused a great deal of drag. This was partially offset by directing air into this bubble via ventilation which increased the pressure. However, Mr Larsen had to prevent ventilation along the lifting surfaces of the foil as that severely affected lift, and being a surface piercing foil, he added a "fence" which proved effective.

image.thumb.png.ed1548b12fa68da92c9965a591f12a73.png

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40 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

current rules preventing  surface penetrations, ducting of air and active deformation of a surface ( thats more the hinge adjustable profile foil idea though)

the rules lot are no fun

I did mention "AC37" somewhere previously, as it's possible they may reconsider these rules if they want to exceed the cavitation limitations. But who knows what AC37 will look like!

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4 minutes ago, MaxHugen said:

I recall reading with interest about the Shkal some years ago. It uses super-cavitation in a different way to what the SailRocket foil did though. The system surrounded the entire torpedo in an envelope of air to reduce drag which allowed it to reach very high speeds. A flat plate at the nose initiated cavitation and the exhaust was fed into the cavitation bubble that was produced, which then travelled the length of the torpedo.

The super-cavitating foil used by SailRocket was shaped so that cavitation was initiated at the sharp leading edge, and the resultant water vapour flowed along the foil surfaces in a very thin layer without separating until it reached the abrupt trailing edge, where it formed the cav bubble. In essence, you could say that the water vapour became the boundary layer along the foil.

The cavitation bubble, being at very low pressure, caused a great deal of drag. This was partially offset by directing air into this bubble via ventilation which increased the pressure. However, Mr Larsen had to prevent ventilation along the lifting surfaces of the foil as that severely affected lift, and being a surface piercing foil, he added a "fence" which proved effective.

image.thumb.png.ed1548b12fa68da92c9965a591f12a73.png

In retrospect it seems so obvious, duh!  Thanks for your thoughtful and illustrating answer. 

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2 minutes ago, Physalia said:

In retrospect it seems so obvious, duh!  Thanks for your thoughtful and illustrating answer. 

But I may be irrevocably stuck down the rabbit hole. :D

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2 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Flaps are only useful when the foil is in sub-cavitation mode, and with the current concept there is very little internal area aft to accommodate retractable flaps. They would help though.

I had originally thought to start with the super-cavitating profile, and add a collapsing retractable section that would effectively become the aft section for a sub-cav profile. This had the effect of increasing the foil chord as well as theoretically creating a decent trailing section.

However, apart from any practical considerations, I had problems creating such a profile that XFoil could resolve, so I passed on that thought.

As someone already pointed out, if you just wanted to beat the speed record, you could put a sub-cavitating foil on one side, and a super-cavitating on the other. Speed up to 50kts, then jibe onto the super-cavitating foils. Would be fun to watch!:P:D

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5 minutes ago, erdb said:

As someone already pointed out, if you just wanted to beat the speed record, you could put a sub-cavitating foil on one side, and a super-cavitating on the other. Speed up to 50kts, then jibe onto the super-cavitating foils. Would be fun to watch!:P:D

Most of these thoughts came about months ago, as the speed of the AC75s reached the point of cavitation, and I started toying around with ideas for foils on a possible future version on these AC boats - should that happen.

It wasn't so much as an outright speed record though, that may have to be left to a couple of specialised craft currently under development, looking to improve on Larsen's design.

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11 hours ago, The Advocate said:

Oh FFS, the Salon, really? Who wears the tin foil hats?

They're slightly more objective than fox news :lol:

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20 hours ago, jaysper said:

Which is proof perhaps that unless you live in a country with substantial natural borders and a small population that lockdowns are a dumb fucking idea?

You are a dumb fucking idea. Can you stop this ridiculous juvenile bullshit and stick to the sailing. You just make yourself look stupid.

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5 minutes ago, kiwin said:

You are a dumb fucking idea. Can you stop this ridiculous juvenile bullshit and stick to the sailing. You just make yourself look stupid.

Oh yawn.

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3 minutes ago, kiwin said:

You are a dumb fucking idea. Can you stop this ridiculous juvenile bullshit and stick to the sailing. You just make yourself look stupid.

Jason must be locked out of all the Vietnamese mail-order brides sites..

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6 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Except for China there has been no real lockdown that I know of. In some countries the kids went to school during "lockdown", people were allowed to meet a certain number of others during "lockdown", it was allowed to use public transportation during "lockdown" and so on. 

Most of the lockdowns were not strict enough, they just flattened the curve but stalled at a point in time and slowed the virus to spread. 

Right, apparently the countries with the least strict measures will have the most screwed up economy in the end. 

 

Just for the record, Melbourne had a real lockdown last winter.  Only allowed to leave your house for one of four reasons, a night time curfew, could only travel up to 5 km from home, no on-site school etc etc. We went from >700 cases a day and an exponential growth rate to zero in about three months.  Whatever one thinks of the politics, it worked.