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Ultimate Cruiser? Route 66 Is For Sale


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I've always admired this boat and the thinking that has gone into it.  No involvement other than posting the link here.  Would love to see how it works out on a daily basis.  Maybe a bit bland/difficult on the interior, but she must sail really well for a short handed cruiser.  Anybody been aboard?

1993 Goetz Custom Cruising Sloop sailboat for sale in Virginia (sailboatlistings.com)

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Ha ha- yeah, the styling probably doesn't appeal to the typical Tayana 37 buyer but it makes sense.  Reverse sheer takes the weight from the ends while leaving the bow high, motors easily at 10 knots, has hit 30 sailing.  Lots of folks can draw/design an esthetically common or expected boat.  I'm more interested in what folks come up with when function dictates form.  Biggest drawback for me is the excessive deck beam/waterline beam ratio- how do you set up the fenders for the dock?  I don't think it will bring anywhere near the asking price in this market- it's one of those boats where you either love it or hate it.  And how many in the "love it" category can afford to drop $1.2M?  Same money buys you this- and impresses a lot more folks.  Of course you don't sail it with just your wife:

Schooner Custom for sale - YachtWorld

 

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15 minutes ago, boatcat65 said:

Ha ha- yeah, the styling probably doesn't appeal to the typical Tayana 37 buyer but it makes sense.  Reverse sheer takes the weight from the ends while leaving the bow high, motors easily at 10 knots, has hit 30 sailing.  Lots of folks can draw/design an esthetically common or expected boat.  I'm more interested in what folks come up with when function dictates form.  Biggest drawback for me is the excessive deck beam/waterline beam ratio- how do you set up the fenders for the dock?  I don't think it will bring anywhere near the asking price in this market- it's one of those boats where you either love it or hate it.  And how many in the "love it" category can afford to drop $1.2M?  Same money buys you this- and impresses a lot more folks.  Of course you don't sail it with just your wife:

Schooner Custom for sale - YachtWorld

 

That’s a bs argument.   If applied correctly, form follows function, and a good designer will make it look pleasing even if unconventional.  I think any of the most recent IMOCAs are a good illustration of this.  That boat is just hideous and doesn’t need to be that hideous to meet its design goals.  Row away factor is important, and it’s hard to row when you’re vomiting. 

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Brilliant design.   Fat, easy to sail, can sail in shallow water.

And best of all, it horrifies the people who have a narrow view of acceptable aesthetics, so it will be a cheap secondhand buy.

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3 hours ago, eliboat said:

Wow that is a comprehensive exercise in ugly.  

Whether or not you like the boat, that is a great comment.:lol:

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Heh. Yeah, short handed sailing. But the maintenance of all those slick gizmos? Boatyards around the world will profit handsomely: So that’s a big plus. 

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7 minutes ago, eastern motors said:
2 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

And best of all, it horrifies the people who have a narrow view of acceptable aesthetics, so it will be a cheap secondhand buy.

$1.2mm doesn't seem that cheap for a 28 year old 70 footer.

That's Swan money.  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1993/nautor-swan--swan-68-2828282/

Sorry, eastern, I should have been clear that I am assuming the boat will sell for nowhere near that asking price.  I am thinking of the value in a year or two after lots of conservative yotties have yelled "fugly", and the seller has dropped the price to below US$500K ... and sells for $250K

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Long walk from the stove to the sink- not sure how well this layout works for cooking at sea and seems awkward even in port.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/blrzwk55zv6gvyz/Video Sep 22%2C 11 50 03 AM.mov?dl=0

Maybe you buy this, spend $350k on changing the rig (shorter, sweep back the spreaders to eliminate runners), adding a swing keel, and primping out the interior and end up with the same basic idea for less than half the money?

1990 Santa Cruz 70 Racing Sailboat for sale - YachtWorld

 

 

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But I actually like the concept. The execution? Not so much. 

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Interesting to see three very different boats that are available if you go shopping with a million bucks in your pocket. I think the Swan would do it for me.

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Sidedecks look like fun in a rolling seaway.

There's a rule attached to unique houses -- straw bale, or earthship, or earth-bermed -- that the sort of people who want to live in one are the sort of people who want to build their own. And however clever or artistic or innovative or livable or efficient your oddball house is, any prospective buyer capable of appreciating the advantages of such a house has some pretty-well-developed ideas of their own about the perfect 'machine for living in,' and those ideas prolly are not congruent with yours. 

We understood this rule when we built our all-steel, passive solar, off grid home. It meant alternative financing, really strange tax assessments, and forgoing homeowner's insurance. But it makes us happy, and when the time comes, our heirs can sell it for scrap metal, or for the price of the land. We will have got our value out of it. We certainly won't expect some other weirdos to cough up $1.2m for it.:lol:

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If I was gonna throw a bag of cash at a 70 foot monohull for cruising, I’d start with the row away factor and backtrack from there.

Yes, the fortune in running costs and perhaps a challenge to shorthand without modifying things, but man she’s a looker. Life’s too short to mess around with ugly.

54A57235-1813-4745-B0B9-EBEA36C0A2BF.thumb.jpeg.aaf5e86d9c94c424535899d6f26ba3ac.jpeg

http://www.wyliedesigngroup.com/wood/Pages/Rage_-_70_Racer.html

https://www.schoonercreek.com/post/rage-70-racing-sailboat-designed-by-tom-wylie

(Some of you guys on the west coast undoubtedly know this decorated racer.)

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What's the purpose of the tripod mast base/step? Disperse loads for a lighter build? Improved forward visibility? Different just to be different?

I rather like it unfortunately. I do agree though that it seems hugely overpriced. There is a 2010 Hylas 70, 2005 Baltic 66, 2011 Oyster 625 and a 2010 Tripp 65 currently on the market with similar asking prices.

Maybe $300-500k would be more reasonable? There seem to be a lot of exotic materials in it after all. But then it'd be competing against the likes of this instead:

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2003/bakewell-white-pocket-maxi-67-2557846/

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Oh, I missed that. Going to go with your 'just to be different' theory then! Although I could see it moving the compression to allow a certain layout below decks.

Weird/cool ratio is well off the charts.

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27 minutes ago, Tylo said:

What's the purpose of the tripod mast base/step? Disperse loads for a lighter build? Improved forward visibility? Different just to be different?

I rather like it unfortunately. I do agree though that it seems hugely overpriced. There is a 2010 Hylas 70, 2005 Baltic 66, 2011 Oyster 625 and a 2010 Tripp 65 currently on the market with similar asking prices.

Maybe $300-500k would be more reasonable? There seem to be a lot of exotic materials in it after all. But then it'd be competing against the likes of this instead:

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2003/bakewell-white-pocket-maxi-67-2557846/

It's a B&R thing, they did it to one of the Hunters too. Stabilize the mast base? Create a wonderful opportunity to go overboard?

hunter.thumb.jpg.5ca20462fd8d7aa12cceda15cef88aa9.jpg

 

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I crewed on the ~2011 Baja Haha with similar tripod rig.  Hunters Child.  I'm no keelboat expert.  It did have something to do with rig stability.  I might have some details in my journal from back then.  It seemed ok to me, it wasn't a MOB concern.  I noticed that the linked wiki mentions Route 66 as its inspiration.  The boat seemed conventional in other respects/appearance but now that I've refreshed my memory with some web pics it does share a lot of appearance features with R66. 

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

It's a B&R thing, they did it to one of the Hunters too. Stabilize the mast base? Create a wonderful opportunity to go overboard?

Stabilise the mast base, disperse compression loads, and save the mast from carrying all the boom's compression loading.

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One thing's for sure- you're not playing with that rig to depower the main- nothing moves.  It is a lot of windage.  Still, the owner claims speeds of over 30 knots.  I like the concept, the original thinking, the performance, and don't really mind the row away factor.  What kills it for me is the interior layout.  I can already hear my wife bitching about that galley layout.

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4 hours ago, eric1207 said:

I crewed on the ~2011 Baja Haha with similar tripod rig.  Hunters Child.  I'm no keelboat expert.  It did have something to do with rig stability.  I might have some details in my journal from back then.  It seemed ok to me, it wasn't a MOB concern.  I noticed that the linked wiki mentions Route 66 as its inspiration.  The boat seemed conventional in other respects/appearance but now that I've refreshed my memory with some web pics it does share a lot of appearance features with R66. 

I think it was the other way around. Hunter’s Child came first IIRC. HC deck was an ugly derivative of the legend series crossed with a BOC design but not as Mac 65ish as Route 66. 
 

They both lead to the Legend HC50 series production of a few boats. 

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1 hour ago, Innocent Bystander said:

I think it was the other way around. Hunter’s Child came first IIRC. HC deck was an ugly derivative of the legend series crossed with a BOC design but not as Mac 65ish as Route 66. 
 

They both lead to the Legend HC50 series production of a few boats. 

Hunters child was built around 1990-1992.  I was on it briefly. 

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Brilliant concept, but I agree with @Cruisin Loser that the execution didn't quite work.

However, nearly 30 years on it's interesting to see that many of the concepts in Route 66 have been adopted elsewhere.

The B&R rig seems to have died a death, but that's one of the few ideas which expired.  The same principle of a backstayless fractional rig on a big boat has been achieved by other means.

The canting rudder hasn't caught on, but the problem it addressed has been resolved in a different way: wider sterns have allowed the canting rudder to be replaced by twin rudders.   

The ultra-light cruiser is now a common custom boat type.  The dinghy garage is now routine even on production boats.  Lifting or wing keels have been used successfully on may other >50ft semi-custom boats.  Water ballast is widely used.

Even the semi-circular hull sections have become the norm for fast boats, but nowadays they make the circle much wider and slice off the edges.

Reverse sheers are back too.  The OPEN 60s all seem to be going in that direction, and Ed Dubois's final masterpiece Ngoni has both a reverse sheer and a stern which is conceptually close to Route 66.

One of my favourite designs of recent times is the Finot-Conq FC53.  It combines many of the innovations of Route 66: fractional rig, no backstay, wing keel, arc-of-a-circle hull section, dinghy garage.

 

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Again, I'm no history buff, chronology and all.  I just happened to crew on the boat and all I remembered was that it was red and had something to do with a boat named Hunters Child.  After looking it up today I found a pic of the boat I sailed on with its name; Fast Reorrg.  Old guy memories come back slowly and in patches.

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TwoLegged makes some great points.  For it's day the boat was a leap forward in innovation and effective.  But nearly 30 years of refinement has rendered much of the original design execution, if not the underlying ideas, obsolete.  For the money I'd much rather  have a Pogo 50 or similar- nearly as fast, much simpler, to my eye much prettier and a hell of a lot easier to deal with on a day to to day basis.  Having owned a couple of boats in the 65' range I can tell you that everything from finding moorage to haul outs to appropriate equipment is a whole lot harder than finding the same for a 50'er, not to mention the exponential increase in expense.  Given what current technology offers in a 50' package I see no need to go for the extra length.  Still admire the individualism and effort it required.  But not worth anything close to $1.2M given the alternatives now available. 

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22 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Interesting to see three very different boats that are available if you go shopping with a million bucks in your pocket. I think the Swan would do it for me.

You could get a newer and bigger Swan than the 68 shown for that money. Although an elderly couple double handing it might be a bit much 

 

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2002/nautor-swan-77-3764019/

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7 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

One of my favourite designs of recent times is the Finot-Conq FC53.  It combines many of the innovations of Route 66: fractional rig, no backstay, wing keel, arc-of-a-circle hull section, dinghy garage.

 

Wing keel? Did you miss s, as in swing keel?

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Just now, Upp3 said:
7 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

One of my favourite designs of recent times is the Finot-Conq FC53.  It combines many of the innovations of Route 66: fractional rig, no backstay, wing keel, arc-of-a-circle hull section, dinghy garage.

 

Wing keel? Did you miss s, as in swing keel?

Yes, typo.  I meant swing keel ... but by the time I spotted my error, it was too late to edit it.

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On 2/20/2021 at 7:10 PM, boatcat65 said:

Ha ha- yeah, the styling probably doesn't appeal to the typical Tayana 37 buyer but it makes sense.  Reverse sheer takes the weight from the ends while leaving the bow high, motors easily at 10 knots, has hit 30 sailing.  Lots of folks can draw/design an esthetically common or expected boat.  I'm more interested in what folks come up with when function dictates form.  Biggest drawback for me is the excessive deck beam/waterline beam ratio- how do you set up the fenders for the dock?  I don't think it will bring anywhere near the asking price in this market- it's one of those boats where you either love it or hate it.  And how many in the "love it" category can afford to drop $1.2M?  Same money buys you this- and impresses a lot more folks.  Of course you don't sail it with just your wife:

Schooner Custom for sale - YachtWorld

 

Are you kidding? The companionway is offset...

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On 2/20/2021 at 3:55 PM, boatcat65 said:

I've always admired this boat and the thinking that has gone into it.  No involvement other than posting the link here.  Would love to see how it works out on a daily basis.  Maybe a bit bland/difficult on the interior, but she must sail really well for a short handed cruiser.  Anybody been aboard?

1993 Goetz Custom Cruising Sloop sailboat for sale in Virginia (sailboatlistings.com)

What's it rate?

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/21/2021 at 11:10 AM, boatcat65 said:

Same money buys you this- and impresses a lot more folks. 

first time I've seen a bidet on a yacht

epitome of  civilisation .:)

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