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irlsailor

J105 competitiveness

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In our fleet a J109 is faster in all winds everywhere unless the wind is 20kts or over. J105 is very popular for 2H racing and has seen more success here than the 109s 

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The 109 is about 6 seconds faster per mile under the PHRF system.  But you can optimize a 105 for handicap racing and easily pick up 6-10 seconds per mile depending on headsail and assym.  Our local OD fleet is about 25 boats.  Very few people race the 105 in PHRF regularly.  Those that do race PHRF regularly make their boat competitive in our light air region with a genoa (needs additional tracks installed for that) and with a huge spinnaker.   

Just curious what your thought process is here.  The 105 is a great one design boat if you have a fleet nearby.  The 109 is much nicer inside with better cruising amenities.  Very different missions pretty similar as handicap boats, and as handicap boats it's likely whatever ratings  system you live with is going to treat them pretty similarly.  It's an apples vs oranges comparison. 

Which is faster, your dog or your cat?   

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One thing to consider is that the j/105 is best used for barging starts, failing to give mark room, and colliding with other boats.  Think of it as a 7,800lb Opti.

Whereas the j/109 is more commonly sailed by folks who avoid trading paint.  

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8 hours ago, Lex Teredo said:

The 109 is about 6 seconds faster per mile under the PHRF system.  But you can optimize a 105 for handicap racing and easily pick up 6-10 seconds per mile depending on headsail and assym.  Our local OD fleet is about 25 boats.  Very few people race the 105 in PHRF regularly.  Those that do race PHRF regularly make their boat competitive in our light air region with a genoa (needs additional tracks installed for that) and with a huge spinnaker.   

Just curious what your thought process is here.  The 105 is a great one design boat if you have a fleet nearby.  The 109 is much nicer inside with better cruising amenities.  Very different missions pretty similar as handicap boats, and as handicap boats it's likely whatever ratings  system you live with is going to treat them pretty similarly.  It's an apples vs oranges comparison. 

Which is faster, your dog or your cat?   

109s rate 24 secs/mile faster around here. Both have big fleets In OD configuration, so the rating diff is pretty sorted.

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In light air the 109 is very competitive. In breeze the 105 is.  Neither are the greatest all arounders. Pick your poison.

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16 hours ago, Roleur said:

109s rate 24 secs/mile faster around here. Both have big fleets In OD configuration, so the rating diff is pretty sorted.

I'm sorry, my bad.  69 for the 109 vs ~90 for the 105 depending on configuration.  I was looking at another region's ratings.  Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  

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7 hours ago, Lex Teredo said:

I'm sorry, my bad.  69 for the 109 vs ~90 for the 105 depending on configuration.  I was looking at another region's ratings.  Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  

69/93 in PHRF NW and 66/93 in PHRF BC.  

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Having raced on J109 in PHRF fleets, I can say the J109 is competitive across the range. The 105s we raced against seemed to struggle regardless of configuration/conditions. 

Local conditions and PHRF committee would dictate sail configuration.  

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5 hours ago, steph2ma said:

Having raced on J109 in PHRF fleets, I can say the J109 is competitive across the range. The 105s we raced against seemed to struggle regardless of configuration/conditions. 

As a long time multiple J/105 (3 so far) owner I couldn't disagree with you more. 

In was invited to drive a top Sydney 38 that rates ~60 seconds/mile faster than J/105 OD.  In 18-20 kts TWV the J/105 OD blew by us like we were standing still.

The proof of J/105 capabilities is evident given the fact hat almost 700 J/105s sail worldwide.

~14,500 J boats built so far is proof of their quality.

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