bmiller 775 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Been on a wait list for a mooring on Dillon, got the call, I'm up. Have had a couple other boats there in the past, it's a great place to spend the summer. Now I need to find a boat! The last few years I've been all over the place in regards to what I can actually do sailing. The most sensible and affordable is a small boat moored close to home that spends it's off season on a trailer right here. Criteria: Day sailing with occasional overnights, no racing, lots of single handing No major projects, Draft is not an issue so fin keel preferred over swing or centerboard, not an absolute. Beam not an issue either, only have to get it here, will plead ignorance if contacted by law enforcement Max length of 28, has a trailer, but I could get one for the right boat Budget is variable depending on the boat but 15K is about the top end Willing to travel just about anywhere for the right boat, except Florida, there be monsters. Couple possibilities below. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/89944 not crazy about the OMC inboard but if the owner is correct about the condition it's not a deal breaker. https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/laser-boats-laser-28-sailboat-3749315/ again not crazy about the bukh inboard Lots of Catalina 25s around, a good one would definitely suffice. This one is nearby but sure could use some fairing on the keel https://westslope.craigslist.org/boa/d/grand-junction-catalina-25-tall-mast/7278695722.html Or this in New Mexico https://sailingtexas.com/202001/scatalina25434.html swing keel not a deal breaker Fire up your googlefoo and help me find a boat! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slap 434 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 13 minutes ago, bmiller said: https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/89944 not crazy about the OMC inboard but if the owner is correct about the condition it's not a What are getting parts for the OMC like? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 3 minutes ago, slap said: What are getting parts for the OMC like? My guess is virtually impossible. If it fails fill the hole and slap on an outboard? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chester 773 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 31 minutes ago, bmiller said: My guess is virtually impossible. If it fails fill the hole and slap on an outboard? there are quite a few Mirage 26/27's around here. these boats either had an outboard or the OMC. My dock neighbour's 27 has the OMC and it's still going strong 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diarmuid 706 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Are Dillon and nearby mountain lakes your primary venues for this boat? Does that influence some other criteria? Our first sailboat was a Chrysler Buccaneer 18 dinghy, sort of an unballasted version of the Flying Scot. Which was definitely fun and ghosted along in the slightest breeze. But freeboard was minimal, and singlehanded (or even two up) in a typical 60mph mountain wind event -- which occur daily on Dillon, Granby, etc, as you know well -- the Bucc simply was not survivable. I spent some unpleasant half hours in 50°F water waiting for the wind to abate enuf I could right and empty the dinghy. We bought a SJ21, which can still be a handful in the stink but at least is drier and gives you a chance at keeping the pointy thing upright. Water ballast is cool for towing and launching; WB boat like the Hunters is going to be initially tender, tho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 12 minutes ago, Diarmuid said: Are Dillon and nearby mountain lakes your primary venues for this boat? Does that influence some other criteria? Our first sailboat was a Chrysler Buccaneer 18 dinghy, sort of an unballasted version of the Flying Scot. Which was definitely fun and ghosted along in the slightest breeze. But freeboard was minimal, and singlehanded (or even two up) in a typical 60mph mountain wind event -- which occur daily on Dillon, Granby, etc, as you know well -- the Bucc simply was not survivable. I spent some unpleasant half hours in 50°F water waiting for the wind to abate enuf I could right and empty the dinghy. We bought a SJ21, which can still be a handful in the stink but at least is drier and gives you a chance at keeping the pointy thing upright. Water ballast is cool for towing and launching; WB boat like the Hunters is going to be initially tender, tho. Yes, Dillon will be the primary place to sail. Very aware of the "unique" winds and frigid water. Got my ass kicked one day at twin lakes, sailing an O'Day 19 on a bluebird day that suddenly turned to shit. Not interested in water ballasted boats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 5,329 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 7 minutes ago, bmiller said: Yes, Dillon will be the primary place to sail. Very aware of the "unique" winds and frigid water. Got my ass kicked one day at twin lakes, sailing an O'Day 19 on a bluebird day that suddenly turned to shit. Not interested in water ballasted boats. There's not that many around. But they work just fine, it's a good solution to trailering without having to drag a ton of lead around. If it's a boat you're going to keep in a slip, no practical reason to seek out a water ballasted boat. FB- Doug 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SemiSalt 216 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 If you had a list of all-time best boats in that size range, the Ranger 26 would be on it. The Ensign might also be on it, but I'd want a self-bailing cockpit. The C&C boats in your size range are great sailing boats. I haven't seen a 27 that didnt look beat to shit in a while. The 25s seem to have lasted better. The 24s are dirt cheap, but that may be because they really aren't cruisers. One of the Mirages is very similar, I think. But they are all 40 years old. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 6,439 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Like Semi said, except this one looks pretty good. https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/c-c-27-3558293/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
valcour 54 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 This 110 popped up on the PNW day sailer thread. Not sure it fits your criteria, but it’s local to you. https://110class.com/classified-ads/show-ad/560/705-ready-to-race-international-110-3500-located-colorado/colorado/ready-to-sail/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, Ishmael said: Like Semi said, except this one looks pretty good. https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/c-c-27-3558293/ That's a nice looking boat. Photos are dated June of 2019, I wonder if that's indicative of a problem. Here's one in not as nice condition but it has a road trailer. Hmmm, wonder if the trailer could be sold separately? https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1971/c-c-27-mk-i-2931208/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BayRacer 53 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Some will probably roll their eyes about it being mentioned again, (though I don't think it comes up frequently in Cruising forum), but you can get a decent S2 7.9 with trailer and outboard for 15K. Trailerable, though technically overwidth. But we have gone from WI to Nashville and across the Canadian border for racing with no questions from law enforcement. Some move theirs from Midwest to "southern" circuit (pre-COVID). There are videos/guides floating around about raising/lowering mast short-handed with winches, spinnaker pole and appropriate lines/blocks. If you only have to do it spring and fall, you can probably round up a few friends and get it all rigged/derigged and tied down in an hour or so. Has a ballasted daggerboard that goes to winch. I have seen a couple that actually had electric winches added. If not hardcore racing, no need to bring it up at all except to help keep it clean and to get it on trailer. Might want it down on a mooring to minimize swinging back and forth. Easily single handed if you stick to #3 headsail or put a furler on it. They are older now, so all the caveats about due diligence for core issues. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 This one got me really excited a year ago, but if you look at all the photos it's a real project. I don't know, maybe..... https://www.popyachts.com/sloop-sailboats-for-sale/c-c-yachts-29-2-in-pensacola-florida-186946 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 12 minutes ago, BayRacer said: Some will probably roll their eyes about it being mentioned again, (though I don't think it comes up frequently in Cruising forum), but you can get a decent S2 7.9 with trailer and outboard for 15K. Trailerable, though technically overwidth. But we have gone from WI to Nashville and across the Canadian border for racing with no questions from law enforcement. Some move theirs from Midwest to "southern" circuit (pre-COVID). There are videos/guides floating around about raising/lowering mast short-handed with winches, spinnaker pole and appropriate lines/blocks. If you only have to do it spring and fall, you can probably round up a few friends and get it all rigged/derigged and tied down in an hour or so. Has a ballasted daggerboard that goes to winch. I have seen a couple that actually had electric winches added. If not hardcore racing, no need to bring it up at all except to help keep it clean and to get it on trailer. Might want it down on a mooring to minimize swinging back and forth. Easily single handed if you stick to #3 headsail or put a furler on it. They are older now, so all the caveats about due diligence for core issues. Here's one. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/89092 What is it like down below as far as headroom and creature comforts? I think it's very interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
suider 96 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Jeepers, beating the price on that little S2 that you found is gonna be rough for what you get. Yeah, she may not be the prettiest girl at the dance and that OMC drive is a little wonky... but it's only 1/3 of your budget! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 6,439 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 35 minutes ago, bmiller said: This one got me really excited a year ago, but if you look at all the photos it's a real project. I don't know, maybe..... https://www.popyachts.com/sloop-sailboats-for-sale/c-c-yachts-29-2-in-pensacola-florida-186946 We really liked our 29-2, had it for 9 years. Nice sailing boat, lots of room. That 3-blade Max Prop is a real bonus, and it sounds like all the necessary project bits come with. That upholstery needs a redo, or a cleaning at minimum. If it's been for sale for that long, the owner might be amenable to some bargaining. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BayRacer 53 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 minutes ago, bmiller said: Here's one. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/89092 What is it like down below as far as headroom and creature comforts? I think it's very interesting. First of all, maybe clarification is in order. You mentioned off season trailer storage, which I kind of took to mean ramp launchable, I guess. Those C&C's might be able to get moved (short distances) on trailers, but you need a travel lift or crane and slings to get it on the trailer. Maybe that is not a problem, and certainly any of those fixed keel boats will be more "big boat" feel than the 7.9. The 7.9's are pretty basic down below. Long bunks port and starboard that go back under cockpit. Midships to port is sink and icebox. Starboard is head enclosure with porta-potti. Curtain door. There is short "hallway" up to V-berth forward. The cabin is bisected by the daggerboard trunk (inboard wall of the head). Small electrical distribution panel is in head (running lights, cabin lights, mast lights and accessories, maybe 6 switches total). Headroom is not great, maybe 5"10"ish in main cabin, decreasing as you go forward. We don't spend much time down there racing them. Don't think I have any pictures, but the S2 7.9.org page might have more info, and it has a forum for questions, maintenance support. The ones I know that weekend on them use a small propane type grill for cooking, or shoreside grills at marinas or waterfront parks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 5,329 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 30 minutes ago, bmiller said: Here's one. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/89092 What is it like down below as far as headroom and creature comforts? I think it's very interesting. Awesome boat. If it were not half the country away, I'd give it pretty serious consideration.... Standing headroom for most women, not a lot of foot- & elbowroom though. The keel trunk takes up a disconcerting amount of prime real estate down below but it does give you some privacy in the head. Sails very well, though. Fun boat! FB- Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grizz 42 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 We trailered my friends 7.9 all over- NY to Key West, Charleston, Texas (where it now lives.) We ramp launched everywhere, and the boat kicked ass! It was rock solid in some very hairy conditions, and still fast in light air. More than ample room for overnighting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ismotorsport 7 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 J/100 is great option Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 6,439 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 6 minutes ago, Ismotorsport said: J/100 is great option You know of one for under $20K? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ismotorsport 7 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 11 minutes ago, Ishmael said: You know of one for under $20K? No sorry, but $20k is a strong down payment for a loan on one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kolibri 160 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Sailing on Dillon is a blast! You should be able to find a used J-22, J-24, or Pearson Ensign easily enough. There are a ton of those in Summit County. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolphinmaster 95 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 The Laser 28 looks perfect! Sweet boat, has trailer, just over the ridge and back to pick it up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kolibri 160 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Here's a link to what I used to sail on Dillon. We would get a lake side camping spot and spend a week or two at a time. http://www.pmimage.com/svg/dillon.html 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fufkin 412 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Ok this might seem like it's coming out of left field as the OP mentioned a Laser 28 etc. But for this budget with a trailer how bout a cat boat? These Marshall 22's and Sanderling 18's look pretty sweet. More boat than what the length would suggest, easy to trailer, and a little bit of accommodation. The 22's seem to have a marine head set up where as the 18's can be set up with a self-contained head. Why buy a beat up raced J or Laser 28 when you can get a boat that probably errs toward the conscientious single owner that babies his/her boat? Maybe something off this list strikes your fancy...or maybe not. https://www.catboats.org/page/Cats4Sale_171 Here's a more detailed look into the Marshall 22. New is over budget, but there are some deals on the above list. https://www.marshallcat.com/marshall-22 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slim 98 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 J/80? Santa Cruz 27? Melges 24? Ultimate 20? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 6,439 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 So, in a modified request, the search has now become Up to 30 feet Up to $120K Did anyone read the OP? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 1,194 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 9 hours ago, Ishmael said: Like Semi said, except this one looks pretty good. https://au.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/c-c-27-3558293/ The C&C 27 is a sweet boat, which also had a long production run in the UK as the Trapper 500. No slug, and a solid coastal cruiser capable of a bit of offshore use. But nothing about it says "daysailer for a lake". Most of its length is given over to accommodation for six, rather than to the cockpit which is the focus of a daysailer. It has a masthead rig with an overlapping genoa, which is a nightmare for the narrow spaces of a lake. And it has wheel steering, on a 27-footer. In short, this is a fine boat ... but entirely the wrong boat for daysailing on a small lake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 6,439 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: The C&C 27 is a sweet boat, which also had a long production run in the UK as the Trapper 500. No slug, and a solid coastal cruiser capable of a bit of offshore use. But nothing about it says "daysailer for a lake". Most of its length is given over to accommodation for six, rather than to the cockpit which is the focus of a daysailer. It has a masthead rig with an overlapping genoa, which is a nightmare for the narrow spaces of a lake. And it has wheel steering, on a 27-footer. In short, this is a fine boat ... but entirely the wrong boat for daysailing on a small lake. That was one of the standard daysailors on my lake. Put a blade on it and it's a pussycat. Otherwise, I agree. I was sailing a Shark 24 at the time. Sails 6, parties 8, sleeps 2. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fufkin 412 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 8 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: The C&C 27 is a sweet boat, which also had a long production run in the UK as the Trapper 500. No slug, and a solid coastal cruiser capable of a bit of offshore use. But nothing about it says "daysailer for a lake". Most of its length is given over to accommodation for six, rather than to the cockpit which is the focus of a daysailer. It has a masthead rig with an overlapping genoa, which is a nightmare for the narrow spaces of a lake. And it has wheel steering, on a 27-footer. In short, this is a fine boat ... but entirely the wrong boat for daysailing on a small lake. Off the top of my head I can think of three 27's all in great shape, one mint, that probably mainly harbour sail in a lot of traffic, club race, or make the odd jaunt out into a big lake. These boats perform well with a roller reefed Genoa should the conditions demand it and can still point well, with increased visibility should the need arise. Most owners probably keep the A3 stowed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 1,194 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 42 minutes ago, Ishmael said: That was one of the standard daysailors on my lake. Put a blade on it and it's a pussycat. And also a slug in light airs, which takes most of the fun out of daysailing. 34 minutes ago, fufkin said: These boats perform well with a roller reefed Genoa should the conditions demand it and can still point well, with increased visibility should the need arise. But it's a wee lake, where the winds will mostly be light. A fractional rig which can be rapidly depowered is a much better setup for light+gusts. And it still has very little cockpit, which is where daysailers spend 80% of their time. 80% of this boat is cabin, which will get little use. 42 minutes ago, Ishmael said: I was sailing a Shark 24 at the time. Sails 6, parties 8, sleeps 2. That's the right priorities for a daysailer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fufkin 412 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: And also a slug in light airs, which takes most of the fun out of daysailing. But it's a wee lake, where the winds will mostly be light. A fractional rig which can be rapidly depowered is a much better setup for light+gusts. And it still has very little cockpit, which is where daysailers spend 80% of their time. 80% of this boat is cabin, which will get little use. Didn't know that they made a model across the pond...Rob Ball/Camper& Nicholson...interesting... Slug in light air? Compared to what? I'd say that the cockpit is larger than it looks and can fit max 6 easy...and can accommodate at least a well over 6 foot day snoozer/daysailer, if necessary. I've never been a fan of the traveller close to the companionway though and would rather have it close to the wheel, but such is life in this hypothetical case. For me, tiller or wheel doesn't really matter...but IMHO the upwind performance bias of a C&C which is part of its DNA...makes it ideal for small lakes and getting off lee shores on an ongoing basis. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 1,194 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 5 minutes ago, fufkin said: Slug in light air? Compared to what? I'd say that the cockpit is larger than it looks and can fit max 6 easy...and can accommodate at least a well over 6 foot day snoozer/daysailer, if necessary. I've never been a fan of the traveller close to the companionway though and would rather have it close to the wheel, but such is life in this hypothetical case. For me, tiller or wheel doesn't really matter...but IMHO the upwind performance bias of a C&C which is part of its DNA...makes it ideal for small lakes and getting off lee shores on an ongoing basis. This boat is designed to sail with a 150% genoa in light airs. With only a blade jib, will be a slug in light airs compared with a boat that is deigned to sail without a genoa. It's all v well talking rightly of C&C's DNA giving windward ability, but that ability depends on using the 150% genoa. Repeatedly tacking a 150% genoa to get around a small lake is tedious. There are good reasons why boats actually built as daysaliers nearly all have a fractional rig with a small jib. You can probably squeeze in 6 people for drinks at anchor. But if sail trim is even possible with 6 in t cockpit, there will be a lot of elbows in faces. And upwind, half of those 6 people will be sitting to leeward, which is an acquired taste. Please don't think I am knocking the boat. AS I said in my first post, the C&C 27 is a fine design built by a fine yard, and deservedly popular for its designed purpose ... but its design is as ill-suited to daysailing on a small lake as a Winnebago is to being a runabout in the narrow streets of a European city. Horses for courses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fufkin 412 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: This boat is designed to sail with a 150% genoa in light airs. With only a blade jib, will be a slug in light airs compared with a boat that is deigned to sail without a genoa. It's all v well talking rightly of C&C's DNA giving windward ability, but that ability depends on using the 150% genoa. Repeatedly tacking a 150% genoa to get around a small lake is tedious. There are good reasons why boats actually built as daysaliers nearly all have a fractional rig with a small jib. You can probably squeeze in 6 people for drinks at anchor. But if sail trim is even possible with 6 in t cockpit, there will be a lot of elbows in faces. And upwind, half of those 6 people will be sitting to leeward, which is an acquired taste. Please don't think I am knocking the boat. AS I said in my first post, the C&C 27 is a fine design built by a fine yard, and deservedly popular for its designed purpose ... but its design is as ill-suited to daysailing on a small lake as a Winnebago is to being a runabout in the narrow streets of a European city. Horses for courses. A high cut 130% 0r 150% is very versatile on this boat and gets rid of the need for an extra sail(any kind of spinnaker) that the lazy daysailer wants no part of. It's in no way tedious if one trims for least hassle and max comfort. Tacking in light winds with full sail is not so bad with good timing, and even a 15-20% reef/roll takes away any of the so called hassle. In a way the fractional rig can be the slug across the range of light wind conditions that the lazy cruiser may or may not adapt to on the fly(by having to add an extra downwind sail). In terms of elbows in faces on a daysailer on a small lake, I've got great but vague memories of the (almost) all cockpit Cassian and Cuthbertson designed Paceship 20, which apparently I got my beach cruising camping legs started as a very young kid, on a smallish(depends on one's definition) shallow lake, Lake Simcoe...or so I've been told as I was too young to remember. For daysailing the cockpit could handle 8max, and for short overnights the cockpit became a tented/netted extension to the very small cubbyhole in the bow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 1,194 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 17 minutes ago, fufkin said: A high cut 130% 0r 150% is very versatile on this boat and gets rid of the need for an extra sail(any kind of spinnaker) that the lazy daysailer wants no part of. It's in no way tedious if one trims for least hassle and max comfort. Tacking in light winds with full sail is not so bad with good timing, and even a 15-20% reef/roll takes away any of the so called hassle. In a way the fractional rig can be the slug across the range of light wind conditions that the lazy cruiser may or may not adapt to on the fly(by having to add an extra downwind sail). So why do none of the new crop of dedicated daysailers have a masthead rig with 150% genoa? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fufkin 412 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 40 minutes ago, TwoLegged said: So why do none of the new crop of dedicated daysailers have a masthead rig with 150% genoa? Personally, if I've got one finger on the wheel, all the lines leading to the cockpit, I'd rather trim(reef) my 130% than my fully battened main. Broader range of power control from the jib and the smaller main balances/steers. I know nothing about the new crop of day sailers you speak of, but I do know that if someone handed me a MaxiDolphin33 no questions asked I'd take it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
European Bloke 492 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 6 hours ago, Ismotorsport said: No sorry, but $20k is a strong down payment for a loan on one. Borrowing money to buy an old boat? That's an interesting concept. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwoLegged 1,194 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 51 minutes ago, fufkin said: I know nothing about the new crop of day sailers you speak of, but I do know that if someone handed me a MaxiDolphin33 no questions asked I'd take it. Daysailers are on the of biggest growth areas of the yacht market in the last 20 years. For example: Morris M-series (M29, M36, M42, M52) Tartan Fantail Alerion 28, 33 J/9, J/95, J/100 About six models from https://saffieryachts.com/ Lots of custom boats Quote Link to post Share on other sites
European Bloke 492 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, fufkin said: Didn't know that they made a model across the pond...Rob Ball/Camper& Nicholson...interesting... Slug in light air? Compared to what? I'd say that the cockpit is larger than it looks and can fit max 6 easy...and can accommodate at least a well over 6 foot day snoozer/daysailer, if necessary. I've never been a fan of the traveller close to the companionway though and would rather have it close to the wheel, but such is life in this hypothetical case. For me, tiller or wheel doesn't really matter...but IMHO the upwind performance bias of a C&C which is part of its DNA...makes it ideal for small lakes and getting off lee shores on an ongoing basis. In Europe the C&C is called the Trapper 500 or 501. My dad has one when I was a small kid and I grew up sailing it. As legs says it's a genuine 3.5knt SB. Never mind light wind it can hardly get it of it's own way in any conditions. I used to sail around it in my optimist. As she says it has a tiny main and huge headsail. I can only imagine how bad the performance gets when you add furler reefing. That said it makes excellent use of inside space and a weird curved tiller from the floor frees up cockpit space. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diarmuid 706 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 10 hours ago, Slim said: Ultimate 20? The U20 has a presence on Colorado mountain lakes. There were at least four of them slipped on Cherry Creek Res last year, and IIRC the class held their Nationals in CO several times. Not saying Bmiller plans to race OD, but it is a pretty good performance match to mountain lakes -- IF you add panic reefing ability to that mainsail. Is the cockpit reasonably comfortable? Remember all, we are talking about lakes here that are typically 1.5 x 3 miles. You do a LOT of tacking and jibing and sail trimming and reefing and unreefing. It isn't reaching across Pamlico Sound and reaching home. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 Sweet, not for me but sweet. https://sparkleisforsale.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 This looks pretty cool. Any thoughts? https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/boa/d/van-nuys-albin-marine-express/7282690136.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 17 hours ago, dolphinmaster said: The Laser 28 looks perfect! Sweet boat, has trailer, just over the ridge and back to pick it up! Sure did, I called to set up a time and it's already gone. Snooze you lose in todays market. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fisher 38 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 If the Albin looks good to you, there’s an Olson 25 in Cali that popped up in the classifieds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crash 621 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 12 hours ago, TwoLegged said: Daysailers are on the of biggest growth areas of the yacht market in the last 20 years. For example: Morris M-series (M29, M36, M42, M52) Tartan Fantail Alerion 28, 33 J/9, J/95, J/100 About six models from https://saffieryachts.com/ Lots of custom boats So the OP said buy a boat to be used for “day sailing,” not buy a “daysailer.” He also said “ occasional overnights” and “frequently sail single handed.” Those requirements alone might steer us towards a boat with a touch more cabin and accommodations, and a touch less cockpit than the aforementioned daysailers. The 15k budget drives us to older boats. While I’d agree tacking a 155 genny on a 46ft IOR boat would be a pain on a lake, tacking the 155 on a smaller boat, esp if the rig is not IOR influenced is not hard at all, unless the frame of reference is the same smaller boat with a 110. Tacking a genny on a S2 7.9, or Ranger 26 falls in the “pretty easy” category. The C&C 27 falls into the IOR rig, but it’s not a towering rig, so shouldn’t really be all that hard either. The Olson 25 in the classifieds is a good candidate. C&C 27 Mk V? Starwind 27? S2 7.9FK? J-27? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 5,329 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, bmiller said: 18 hours ago, dolphinmaster said: The Laser 28 looks perfect! Sweet boat, has trailer, just over the ridge and back to pick it up! Sure did, I called to set up a time and it's already gone. Snooze you lose in todays market. That sucks. It would be a sweet boat... maybe make friends with the new owner?? FB- Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ismotorsport 7 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 15 hours ago, European Bloke said: Borrowing money to buy an old boat? That's an interesting concept. It works for some... buy it at the right right price with boat loan... factor in boat sales skyrocketing and becoming a sellers market and u can actually make a profit after 5 years of ownership (minus your annual costs of use of course). Ask me how I know... : ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
slap 434 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 hours ago, bmiller said: Sure did, I called to set up a time and it's already gone. Snooze you lose in todays market. Blame Tempesta - his Laser 28 video drove up the demand for the boat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hard aground 51 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I'm kidding a bit....... but https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/88877 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SemiSalt 216 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 The point about mountain sailing is not so much the the wind is strong or that the breeze is light, but that it's variable. Dillon is a place where a high percentage of the 15-footers are keel boats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 6,439 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 The S2 ticks a lot of boxes, I would like to sail one some day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kolibri 160 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 58 minutes ago, SemiSalt said: The point about mountain sailing is not so much the the wind is strong or that the breeze is light, but that it's variable. Dillon is a place where a high percentage of the 15-footers are keel boats. Dillon does have some funky winds. Come around a point and the wind shifts 120 degrees and jumps from 10 to 20 kts. Lots of keel boats on Dillon and a lot of the smaller J boats. It's a fun place to sail, but you have to pay attention constantly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socalrider 461 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I like the J/27 suggestion. But there's an Antrim 27 in the Classifieds asking $25k in MI on a trailer that I'd be willing to stretch your budget for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
European Bloke 492 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 hours ago, Ismotorsport said: It works for some... buy it at the right right price with boat loan... factor in boat sales skyrocketing and becoming a sellers market and u can actually make a profit after 5 years of ownership (minus your annual costs of use of course). Ask me how I know... : ) Congratulations. You got lucky on a one in a hundred year event. Shame about the L28, cracking boats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolphinmaster 95 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 16 hours ago, bmiller said: Sure did, I called to set up a time and it's already gone. Snooze you lose in todays market. :-( Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alphafb552 520 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 21 hours ago, bmiller said: Sweet, not for me but sweet. https://sparkleisforsale.com/ Nice boat if you like that sort of thing, but for some strange reason I have the feeling that it might have some trouble slipping under the OP's $15k threshold... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sail4beer 2,256 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 I know a guy who moved to Lake Dillon and bought an Ensign. He daysailed it in whatever conditions came up. There’s enough room to camp overnight if you have to, but it’s too close to home for any need to overnight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Sail4beer said: I know a guy who moved to Lake Dillon and bought an Ensign. He daysailed it in whatever conditions came up. There’s enough room to camp overnight if you have to, but it’s too close to home for any need to overnight. Overnight on the boat is always good, even if it is only an hour away. Thing about Dillon is you can count on conditions coming up, no matter the forecast. Then suddenly they go away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sail4beer 2,256 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 That’s what he said about the lake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diarmuid 706 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 2 hours ago, Sail4beer said: I know a guy who moved to Lake Dillon and bought an Ensign. He daysailed it in whatever conditions came up. There’s enough room to camp overnight if you have to, but it’s too close to home for any need to overnight. Ensign is good on small lakes. Also any of the smaller Cape Dorys, from the Typhoon to the 25. They usually come on their own trailers, too. Conservative, forgiving, social cockpit seating, big enuf below for one or two to overnight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sail4beer 2,256 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Don’t forget WAY LESS than $15,000 with trailer and outboard, cover, etc. Roller furler Genoa for when a blow comes in and you need to reduce canvas pronto! 8’ cockpit benches for roomy comfort and napping/camping out in good weather under a boom tent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 4 hours ago, Diarmuid said: Ensign is good on small lakes. Also any of the smaller Cape Dorys, from the Typhoon to the 25. They usually come on their own trailers, too. Conservative, forgiving, social cockpit seating, big enuf below for one or two to overnight. A Cape Dory 25 with a trailer in what appeared to be great condition showed on CL yesterday, gone in 24 hours. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
d'ranger 2,754 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 It's a sellers market - is the Laser 28 the one in Utah? Been trying to get a friend off the fence for that one, one objection is Utah is a long way from Galveston Bay.... Late to this thread - I agree the good boats go quick these days. The J27 is a great boat but way more race than daysailer. Would be a shame not the race the Laser28 as well. The C&C 29IIs are rare in these parts, that is on his list as well. I don't think you are old enough for an Ensign yet. Random thoughts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mgs 105 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 I like the ensign idea as well as the cape dory’s. out of curiosity, did that tall three spreader rigged boat leave the lake yet? I saw it there 5 years ago, was told it came up for some regatta and just sat after. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crash 621 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 This one is on the smaller side at 22', but looks like its in pretty nice shape, and certainly fits all the OPs requirements.... https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/90103 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SemiSalt 216 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 One of the more interesting boats I saw on my brief visit to Dillon. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 5,329 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 42 minutes ago, SemiSalt said: One of the more interesting boats I saw on my brief visit to Dillon. BEAUTY Awesome light air boats, not sure how much fun it would be to sail in cold water and gusty conditions. If you're up for a challenge? FB- Doug 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SemiSalt 216 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said: BEAUTY Awesome light air boats, not sure how much fun it would be to sail in cold water and gusty conditions. If you're up for a challenge? FB- Doug They have Etchells too, if you prefer. Also J/boats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 5,329 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 6 minutes ago, SemiSalt said: They have Etchells too, if you prefer. Also J/boats. Etchells! But also going to be a challenging boat in gusty conditions. A good workout, for sure. FB- Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, SemiSalt said: One of the more interesting boats I saw on my brief visit to Dillon. When were you in the area? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SemiSalt 216 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 31 minutes ago, bmiller said: When were you in the area? August 2011 for a week of family reunion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, SemiSalt said: August 2011 for a week of family reunion. Did you get a chance to check out the Frisco side? That's where we kept boats. It was a pretty small "marina" back then, the last two years they've dumped a ton of capital into it with more planned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SemiSalt 216 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 13 minutes ago, bmiller said: Did you get a chance to check out the Frisco side? That's where we kept boats. It was a pretty small "marina" back then, the last two years they've dumped a ton of capital into it with more planned. I rented a Capri 18 at the marina that occupies the "Frisco Bay" on Google Earth. It was pretty much like any small marina. The boat was a dog very different from my Capri 22. I didn't get any particular impression of the town. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crash 621 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, bmiller said: Did you get a chance to check out the Frisco side? That's where we kept boats. It was a pretty small "marina" back then, the last two years they've dumped a ton of capital into it with more planned. I take it the S2 6.9 I posted upthread (post 67) didn't appeal? I'm good if it doesn't, just didn't know if you saw it or not... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 13 hours ago, Crash said: I take it the S2 6.9 I posted upthread (post 67) didn't appeal? I'm good if it doesn't, just didn't know if you saw it or not... That is a great boat, but it is on the small side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crash 621 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 hours ago, bmiller said: That is a great boat, but it is on the small side. How about the bigger 7.9? Its 26 feet... https://sailingtexas.com/202101/ss279138.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 32 minutes ago, Crash said: How about the bigger 7.9? Its 26 feet... https://sailingtexas.com/202101/ss279138.html I like that, however the 7.3 is my current top choice. The owner and I are playing phone tag right now. If we connect and it sounds decent I will head out for OH Monday morning. Kicking myself for not moving faster on the Laser, it was literally in my backyard. Living in fly over land makes boat shopping difficult. Especially mid winter when most sane people have their boats stored away. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crash 621 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 minute ago, bmiller said: I like that, however the 7.3 is my current top choice. The owner and I are playing phone tag right now. If we connect and it sounds decent I will head out for OH Monday morning. Kicking myself for not moving faster on the Laser, it was literally in my backyard. Yeah, it's way too bad that one got away. They are really great little boats.. I know you are not racing, so it's likely doesn't really matter, but 7.3 is kinda a dog. Rates 234, where as 7.9 rates 171 (On Chesapeake Bay anyway). Even the 6.9 is notably faster at 210. I know rating/speed is not everything, but just thought I'd throw it out there. Laser 28 rates 147... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diarmuid 706 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 My fear with the Laser 28 is that it's too fast for our littleponds. You'd need to tack and jibe 500 times a day, rather than 250. Just get the thing up to 1/4 mile speed & it's "Helm's alee!" again. One reason I like our SJ21: it handles like a dinghy, you can spin circles in its own length, it accelerates out of a tack okay, got some strings to pull, there's pressure on the mainsheet and bubbles at the transom.... But with a PHRF of 255, it makes the lake feel reasonably spacious. Got some friends with a Hobie 16 on our lake; they barely have time to get in the traps. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 5,329 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Diarmuid said: My fear with the Laser 28 is that it's too fast for our littleponds. You'd need to tack and jibe 500 times a day, rather than 250. Just get the thing up to 1/4 mile speed & it's "Helm's alee!" again. One reason I like our SJ21: it handles like a dinghy, you can spin circles in its own length, it accelerates out of a tack okay, got some strings to pull, there's pressure on the mainsheet and bubbles at the transom.... But with a PHRF of 255, it makes the lake feel reasonably spacious. Got some friends with a Hobie 16 on our lake; they barely have time to get in the traps. That's reasonable. But just because the boat CAN go fast, doesn't mean you HAVE to sail it fast. Usually sharp-handling boats with good sail plans also handle well when under short sails and just poking along. That would be a good plan for a place with blasting gusts, too FB- Doug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BayRacer 53 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 4 hours ago, bmiller said: I like that, however the 7.3 is my current top choice. The owner and I are playing phone tag right now. If we connect and it sounds decent I will head out for OH Monday morning. Kicking myself for not moving faster on the Laser, it was literally in my backyard. Living in fly over land makes boat shopping difficult. Especially mid winter when most sane people have their boats stored away. Not going to criticize, boat buying is part objective, part emotional. Good luck with the trip. Had a friend who had an O'day (25?) that had the OMC engine. Parts were difficult at best to source. It worked until it didn't, and replaced with outboard. Forget exact details, but somehow ended up with gas in the bilge as last straw. Not a comfortable feeling. Personally, I wouldn't get a sailboat with a gas engine other than an outboard, but I realize that is my subjective bias and there are plenty of gasoline boats that never have a problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 On 3/3/2021 at 2:18 PM, BayRacer said: Not going to criticize, boat buying is part objective, part emotional. Good luck with the trip. Had a friend who had an O'day (25?) that had the OMC engine. Parts were difficult at best to source. It worked until it didn't, and replaced with outboard. Forget exact details, but somehow ended up with gas in the bilge as last straw. Not a comfortable feeling. Personally, I wouldn't get a sailboat with a gas engine other than an outboard, but I realize that is my subjective bias and there are plenty of gasoline boats that never have a problem. Well I gave up on the phone tag, not sure why he hasn't called back. In the meantime I found a few other 7.3's with outboards, one with a trailer. So on it goes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redboat 45 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Like last year and the year before I say I'm moving to Colorado this year. Covid thing put a big crimp in plans to travel anywhere. Thought often about boats for out there. If I stay in the Cherry Creek/Chatfield arena a J22 would be the choice. Dunno about Dillon. Reluctantly would prefer something with overnight ability so I don't have to drive back to Littleton. Cramped below but owned an Olson 30 and a 29. Damn I loved those things. Comfy cockpits and great daysailers. Easy and superfun to sail. Singlehanded the hell out of both. Not surprised but bummed about mooring wait list. How long were you waiting for your spot? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bmiller 775 Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 14 hours ago, redboat said: Like last year and the year before I say I'm moving to Colorado this year. Covid thing put a big crimp in plans to travel anywhere. Thought often about boats for out there. If I stay in the Cherry Creek/Chatfield arena a J22 would be the choice. Dunno about Dillon. Reluctantly would prefer something with overnight ability so I don't have to drive back to Littleton. Cramped below but owned an Olson 30 and a 29. Damn I loved those things. Comfy cockpits and great daysailers. Easy and superfun to sail. Singlehanded the hell out of both. Not surprised but bummed about mooring wait list. How long were you waiting for your spot? Get on the list now for a shot at next season. It's not terribly long. There's two marinas on the reservoir, mine is on the frisco side, the other is at Dillon. I think Dillon takes longer. https://www.townoffrisco.com/play/frisco-bay-marina/general-info/ https://www.townofdillon.com/marina Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redboat 45 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Thanks for the moorage info. Have to get my sorry ass out there first. Then poke around and get a true sense of the regular drive inconvenience to Dillon vs. puttering about on Cherry Creek. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elscotto 6 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Seawind 24 or some other 25 odd foot catamaran or an Ostac Tramp trimaran. Doable for 15 grand and fun, comfortable weekend sailing. Seawinds can be put on their trailer for a winter and tramps are trailer sailers so no worries there. I own a Tramp, but If I had a close by mooring I would have a Seawind 24. I only do day sails and occasional sail camping for a week or so around the Whitsunday Islands. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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