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Between Boston and Maine, stopping spots


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Not that one. My wife is not to keen on offshore trips, so we'll probably cruise around Maine for awhile and then I'll take off home - if this happens.

My fear is she'll like Maine well enough to say "leave the boat here, we'll come back".

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Last overnight we did from Rockport to Onset, we had a nice Southerly breeze, most of the way.  I don't keep a log but the trip was mostly like this (taken at 2:45pm, we left just after sunrise):

The Kindle changed our lives, and made us much more welcome at airports, as our heaviest piece of baggage was always our son's bag of books. We were early adopters. My son had never heard of a Ki

It's a rare afternoon in the summer when you don't have a good afternoon SW seabreeze in Block Island Sound and Buzzard's Bay.

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7 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Not that one. My wife is not to keen on offshore trips, so we'll probably cruise around Maine for awhile and then I'll take off home - if this happens.

My fear is she'll like Maine well enough to say "leave the boat here, we'll come back".

She's a smart woman. I don't know why more people don't do that for a season or two. It's likely cheaper to store your boat here, even indoors, than most points south. 

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On 3/8/2021 at 9:02 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Not that one. My wife is not to keen on offshore trips, so we'll probably cruise around Maine for awhile and then I'll take off home - if this happens.

My fear is she'll like Maine well enough to say "leave the boat here, we'll come back".

That's an excellent excuse for buying another boat for local use.

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On 3/8/2021 at 4:11 PM, Kris Cringle said:

She's a smart woman. I don't know why more people don't do that for a season or two. It's likely cheaper to store your boat here, even indoors, than most points south. 

Work rates are much cheaper and work quality much higher as well. 

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I was talking to a friend who used to have a boat delivery business. When  I mentioned the question being discussed here, he immediately launched into the importance,  or at least value, of being in sync with the tides between Long Island Sound and the Cape Cod Canal. I know this isn't the route being contemplated,  but it is an argument for the inside route.

He also said he did the Cape Ann to Portland leg non-stop.

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1 hour ago, Whinging Pom said:

That's an excellent excuse for buying another boat for local use.

I already have a boat, so that would be more like not selling the original boat. Actually the potential Maine purchase would have me at 4 total and a dinghy for Maine would put us at 5 :o:o

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10 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

I was talking to a friend who used to have a boat delivery business. When  I mentioned the question being discussed here, he immediately launched into the importance,  or at least value, of being in sync with the tides between Long Island Sound and the Cape Cod Canal. I know this isn't the route being contemplated,  but it is an argument for the inside route.

He also said he did the Cape Ann to Portland leg non-stop.

How about coming at it the other way? Is it just getting through the canal or is it the entire leg?

I always figured the Cape Cod was like the C&D, you would hang around until you have the current with you if possible. We did Hell's Gate against the current once and that sucked balls on a hot summer day.

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On 2/26/2021 at 11:38 AM, bgytr said:

Any experienced NE cruisers to give info on stopping spots between Boston and Maine?  Looks like there's not much there.  Do folks typically bite the bullet and do an overnighter?

boston to gloucester is too short a day if you're going to Maine unless you've got oodles of time to spend. Try Boston to Isles of Shoals. Don't take the canal, go around Cape Ann. From Isles of Shoals as others have said biddeford pool or cape porpoise are short days, you can make it to portland without too much trouble. then it's just hopping your way east. we like south freeport, port clyde, Isle au haut, lots of other places farther and in between.

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3 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

How about coming at it the other way? Is it just getting through the canal or is it the entire leg?

I always figured the Cape Cod was like the C&D, you would hang around until you have the current with you if possible. We did Hell's Gate against the current once and that sucked balls on a hot summer day.

Yeah, except if you take the CCC headed into Buzzards Bay with the canal flowing out against a strongish SW'er, you may find an interesting set of standing waves at the exit of the canal past Mass Maritime. 

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3 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Yeah, except if you take the CCC headed into Buzzards Bay with the canal flowing out against a strongish SW'er, you may find an interesting set of standing waves at the exit of the canal past Mass Maritime. 

Is this just annoying or worth waiting for the wind to shift?

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22 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Is this just annoying or worth waiting for the wind to shift?

You can take the old channel on the port side going out (don't have a chart in front of me, but you'll see it's marked). We've used it for CL's reason. The wind on Buzzards Bay can really blow on what looks like a benign day. We've not been turned back when going out of the canal into the headwind and waves, but I'm always relieved to get the hell out of there. :)

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6 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

I was talking to a friend who used to have a boat delivery business. When  I mentioned the question being discussed here, he immediately launched into the importance,  or at least value, of being in sync with the tides between Long Island Sound and the Cape Cod Canal. I know this isn't the route being contemplated,  but it is an argument for the inside route.

He also said he did the Cape Ann to Portland leg non-stop.

It's good information for me. I might be stupid and take the inside route home.

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5 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I already have a boat, so that would be more like not selling the original boat. Actually the potential Maine purchase would have me at 4 total and a dinghy for Maine would put us at 5 :o:o

Have you told us what the potential new boat is?

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5 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

How about coming at it the other way? Is it just getting through the canal or is it the entire leg?

I always figured the Cape Cod was like the C&D, you would hang around until you have the current with you if possible. We did Hell's Gate against the current once and that sucked balls on a hot summer day.

It is, it's similar but shorter with stronger currents. At least the time we did the C&D it wasn't nearly as bad, current-wise. You can get 5 knots in the wrong direction in the Cape Cod Canal. You really don't want to go through against the current unless you're in a power boat. But then there's an upper speed limit...

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29 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

It is, it's similar but shorter with stronger currents. At least the time we did the C&D it wasn't nearly as bad, current-wise. You can get 5 knots in the wrong direction in the Cape Cod Canal. You really don't want to go through against the current unless you're in a power boat. But then there's an upper speed limit...

Sounds like Hell's Gate, flogging the poor old Atomic 4 got us about as fast as people walking on shore if they weren't walking very fast. Not something to repeat. Then there was dodging large pieces of steel falling off the Brooklyn Bridge :o There was a crew up there jack-hammering, the whole boat got covered in rust :angry:

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4 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Sounds like Hell's Gate, flogging the poor old Atomic 4 got us about as fast as people walking on shore if they weren't walking very fast. Not something to repeat. Then there was dodging large pieces of steel falling off the Brooklyn Bridge :o There was a crew up there jack-hammering, the whole boat got covered in rust :angry:

There are three bridges if I recall, though none of them are falling down on you. One is a lift bridge with a non-zero change of being closed, but I've never been caught at it. Though I've only been through the CCC maybe eight times.

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

There are three bridges if I recall, though none of them are falling down on you. One is a lift bridge with a non-zero change of being closed, but I've never been caught at it.

The railway bridge has the benefit of being on a schedule, and the railway only comes through a couple of times a day.  You can find the schedule for the commuter rail here: https://www.capetrain.com/rides/cape-cod-canal-excursion/ .  (in fairness, it also comes down for freight once in a blue moon.)

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4 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

It is, it's similar but shorter with stronger currents. At least the time we did the C&D it wasn't nearly as bad, current-wise. You can get 5 knots in the wrong direction in the Cape Cod Canal. You really don't want to go through against the current unless you're in a power boat. But then there's an upper speed limit...

You’re actually not allowed to as a sailboat... although that didn’t stop my dad once!   Ships are not allowed to go with the current. 

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10 knots? Holy crap. I thought 5 knots with the engine at 1/4 was pretty snappy.

So an hour or two to get through the CCC if you time the current. Good to know.

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12 hours ago, eliboat said:

You’re actually not allowed to as a sailboat... although that didn’t stop my dad once!   Ships are not allowed to go with the current. 

I didn't know that. I thought it was just a time limit. 

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32 minutes ago, Ajax said:

10 knots? Holy crap. I thought 5 knots with the engine at 1/4 was pretty snappy.

So an hour or two to get through the CCC if you time the current. Good to know.

It's a breeze to go through with the current. It's never been much of a problem for us. We just don't even consider it without a favorable current. And the window is ample to go through. 

 

I always use: https://www.nae.usace.army.mil/Portals/74/docs/Recreation/CCC/Cape-Cod-Canal-2021-Tide-Tables.pdf 

 

It's a fascinating waterway. I did an article on the history for it's centennial in 2014. This was the first tow through. 

1307174703_first-towCentennialwebsite.jpg.52829568826258d2c3bd82ffe77ca83d.jpg

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On 3/10/2021 at 8:34 AM, ryley said:

boston to gloucester is too short a day if you're going to Maine unless you've got oodles of time to spend. Try Boston to Isles of Shoals. Don't take the canal, go around Cape Ann. From Isles of Shoals as others have said biddeford pool or cape porpoise are short days, you can make it to portland without too much trouble. then it's just hopping your way east. we like south freeport, port clyde, Isle au haut, lots of other places farther and in between.

Thanks for the concise info, looks like a plan.

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57 minutes ago, bgytr said:

Thanks for the concise info, looks like a plan.

also, get the Taft guide. It's a great read.

https://www.landfallnavigation.com/catalog/product/view/id/4011.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAnKeCBhDPARIsAFDTLTLEcxqv0sdWwMu2cw9mcOKee4h98RE_qfbKi5NBcjT5TG3nhytzEEAaAtY8EALw_wcB#132=272

A Cruising Guide to the Maine Coast - 6th Ed.

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21 hours ago, Ajax said:

It's good information for me. I might be stupid and take the inside route home.

Eldridge is a must up here.   It is the current bible.   

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6 hours ago, Elegua said:

I didn't know that. I thought it was just a time limit. 

It is, but effectively it rules out underpowered boats going up current:

 Vessels of any kind unable to make a through transit of the land cut portion of the canal against a head current of 6.0 knots within a maximum time limit of 2 hours 30 minutes shall be required to obtain the assistance of a helper tug at the vessel owner's expense or await favorable tide conditions prior to receiving clearance from the marine traffic controller. In the event vessels within the confines of the canal fail to perform and are unable to make sufficient headway against the currents, the marine traffic controller may activate a helper tug in accordance with paragraph (k) of this section.

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8 hours ago, Ajax said:

10 knots? Holy crap. I thought 5 knots with the engine at 1/4 was pretty snappy.

So an hour or two to get through the CCC if you time the current. Good to know.

You can go through at slackish, but why?

Just don't try against the tide. As has been pointed out, it's not allowed for sailboats.

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Advanced gunk-holer? 

Scottish visitor that thought he chartered a Westerly Centaur? 

1748464099_BennetCoveMDIJuly2019.thumb.jpg.1925fe8c661809eb0d99935c3bfc80b1.jpg

A picture is worth a thousand words and just as many questions. 

Not a good spot. Bennet Cove off MDI, is about the only info I could find on this grounding. Bennet Cove doesn't exist, at least  on the charts. It's a cove at high water only. 

Anyway, for Ajax, this is not worth a stop. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

Advanced gunk-holer? 

Scottish visitor that thought he chartered a Westerly Centaur? 

1748464099_BennetCoveMDIJuly2019.thumb.jpg.1925fe8c661809eb0d99935c3bfc80b1.jpg

A picture is worth a thousand words and just as many questions. 

Not a good spot. Bennet Cove off MDI, is about the only info I could find on this grounding. Bennet Cove doesn't exist, at least  on the charts. It's a cove at high water only. 

Anyway, for Ajax, this is not worth a stop. 

 

Full style points for perching on a rock so that only the bottom paint is touching. 

Drying and exposed....Strange place to pick (strange hill to lie on) given the good alternatives all around only a short distance away. 

 

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56 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

Advanced gunk-holer? 

Scottish visitor that thought he chartered a Westerly Centaur? 

1748464099_BennetCoveMDIJuly2019.thumb.jpg.1925fe8c661809eb0d99935c3bfc80b1.jpg

A picture is worth a thousand words and just as many questions. 

Not a good spot. Bennet Cove off MDI, is about the only info I could find on this grounding. Bennet Cove doesn't exist, at least  on the charts. It's a cove at high water only. 

Amateurs!  ;)

Here is is how the professionals do it the Channel Islands:

1542545177_Starlight35yachtagroundonrocks.jpg.af40213d3abc70c67166d01040275e4c.jpg

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37 minutes ago, Elegua said:

Full style points for perching on a rock so that only the bottom paint is touching. 

Drying and exposed....Strange place to pick (strange hill to lie on) given the good alternatives all around only a short distance away. 

 

If you click the pic and zoom, you can see they had the handle in the windlass. There is a clump of chain and maybe the anchor in a pile off the port side, inland. Very strange. 

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9 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

If you click the pic and zoom, you can see they had the handle in the windlass. There is a clump of chain and maybe the anchor in a pile off the port side, inland. Very strange. 

I was looking at that. Not much makes sense. Is that some damage on the forefoot? Before or after beaching? 

Was it a charter? People from away do strange things. 

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1 minute ago, Elegua said:

I was looking at that. Not much makes sense. Is that some damage on the forefoot? Before or after beaching? 

Was it a charter? People from away do strange things. 

Done on purpose to work on the boat?

People from Annapolis that are used to a foot or two of tide?

Prank with stolen boat?

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20 minutes ago, Elegua said:

I was looking at that. Not much makes sense. Is that some damage on the forefoot? Before or after beaching? 

Was it a charter? People from away do strange things. 

In local news, there was a Mayday call from the boat (H-Pilot SEAL) that the CG heard. They sent out a cutter and helicoptor, searched for 6 hours. The people got off the boat and walked ashore (isn't that the typical Maine ship wreck story?). I boat was pulled off at the next tide by a workboat. They never called the CG, back, and that's about all I know. 

The location is just a mile or two from the Hinckley marina in Southwest Harbor, home of a stable of charter boats. 

There is the Scottish Lion flag but they're everywhere these days, everybodys a Scott these days. 

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20 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

In local news, there was a Mayday call from the boat (H-Pilot SEAL) that the CG heard. They sent out a cutter and helicoptor, searched for 6 hours. The people got off the boat and walked ashore (isn't that the typical Maine ship wreck story?). I boat was pulled off at the next tide by a workboat. They never called the CG, back, and that's about all I know. 

The location is just a mile or two from the Hinckley marina in Southwest Harbor, home of a stable of charter boats. 

There is the Scottish Lion flag but they're everywhere these days, everybodys a Scott these days. 

Curiouser and curiouser. Well, it is Hinckley...so there's a good chance. Homeport SW Harbor. But still...leave SW harbor and take a hard right to nowhere .....July 4th. Adult beverages involved?  Not calling back the Coast Guard is a dick move. You'd think for most people that would be your first action after walking ashore. What, no cellphone? 

Hinckley-aground.jpg

https://www.mdislander.com/maine-news/sailboat-high-dry-on-fourth-of-july

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On 3/10/2021 at 12:04 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Sounds like Hell's Gate, flogging the poor old Atomic 4 got us about as fast as people walking on shore if they weren't walking very fast. Not something to repeat. Then there was dodging large pieces of steel falling off the Brooklyn Bridge :o There was a crew up there jack-hammering, the whole boat got covered in rust :angry:

  I went thru HG back in '84 - with a full flood under the boat. Nasty crack of dawn, the crew had the engine cover off to heat the boat - but too damp to do anything. One crew was a female from the area, she was freaking out, kept demanding I wait for slack tide. I said it was just like riding the rapids in a inner tube, just stay away from the edges. She went back belowdecks muttering/cursing the crazy f'g Cali assholes. Stayed below until we picked up a mooring at Indian Head YC (?) greenwich a few hrs later.

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On 3/11/2021 at 3:07 PM, eliboat said:

It is, but effectively it rules out underpowered boats going up current:

 Vessels of any kind unable to make a through transit of the land cut portion of the canal against a head current of 6.0 knots within a maximum time limit of 2 hours 30 minutes shall be required to obtain the assistance of a helper tug at the vessel owner's expense or await favorable tide conditions prior to receiving clearance from the marine traffic controller. In the event vessels within the confines of the canal fail to perform and are unable to make sufficient headway against the currents, the marine traffic controller may activate a helper tug in accordance with paragraph (k) of this section.

That's interesting, I have gone though at least 10 times in both directions and have read up on the canal and have never seen that.  I did find it in the rules today.  It's interesting because vessels smaller then 65 feet do not require clearance from the marine traffic controller.  "

 Obtaining clearance

(1) Vessels under 65 feet in length may enter the canal without obtaining clearance."

That being said I have always planned on hitting the tide going my way including in Buzzards Bay.  Makes for a much calmer trip.  

 

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20 hours ago, Kris Cringle said:

Advanced gunk-holer? 

Scottish visitor that thought he chartered a Westerly Centaur? 

1748464099_BennetCoveMDIJuly2019.thumb.jpg.1925fe8c661809eb0d99935c3bfc80b1.jpg

A picture is worth a thousand words and just as many questions. 

Not a good spot. Bennet Cove off MDI, is about the only info I could find on this grounding. Bennet Cove doesn't exist, at least  on the charts. It's a cove at high water only. 

Anyway, for Ajax, this is not worth a stop. 

 

 

Fark me, I'd better not allow that to happen.

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

 

Fark me, I'd better not allow that to happen.

Up in the Bay of Fundy we WALKED to an island at low tide and went over the same path in a boat at high tide with something like 30 feet on the depthfinder!

It is a chore to reprogram a Chesapeake brain to think of a 12 foot deep anchorage as potentially becoming dry land.

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11 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Up in the Bay of Fundy we WALKED to an island at low tide and went over the same path in a boat at high tide with something like 30 feet on the depthfinder!

It is a chore to reprogram a Chesapeake brain to think of a 12 foot deep anchorage as potentially becoming dry land.

Not unusual to find your dinghy trapped under a dock, or hanging from it's painter or having to endure the "walk of shame" across the mudflat because the tide is now out. 

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I grew up with Ireland's 3–4 metre tide ranges, so I am used to some of that.

Then I holidayed in the Channel Islands, where the range is more like 8–10 metres.  That makes the coastline change a LOT ... and makes navigation interesting.

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On 3/17/2021 at 8:15 AM, Kris Cringle said:

Advanced gunk-holer? 

Scottish visitor that thought he chartered a Westerly Centaur? 

1748464099_BennetCoveMDIJuly2019.thumb.jpg.1925fe8c661809eb0d99935c3bfc80b1.jpg

A picture is worth a thousand words and just as many questions. 

Not a good spot. Bennet Cove off MDI, is about the only info I could find on this grounding. Bennet Cove doesn't exist, at least  on the charts. It's a cove at high water only. 

Anyway, for Ajax, this is not worth a stop. 

 

_MG_8247.thumb.jpg.c6f4f386ce8699dde3ab634e41ef549c.jpg

Seal Bay, Vinalhaven. Absolutely worth a stop.  None of those rocks or that bar in the front are visible at high tide.

They did that in the evening, probably floated off around 2AM.

Normal occupants of that rock at low tide when large boats are not perched there:

_MG_8038.thumb.jpg.b00afbd0ac58520eedf30d8d2c8f488c.jpg

 

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15 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Up in the Bay of Fundy we WALKED to an island at low tide and went over the same path in a boat at high tide with something like 30 feet on the depthfinder!

It is a chore to reprogram a Chesapeake brain to think of a 12 foot deep anchorage as potentially becoming dry land.

Yep. Living on the Chesapeake, I was very comfortable sailing with 1-1.5 feet under the keel and would happily anchor where the depth at low tide was only about a foot under the keel. Feeling your way across an entrance is not abnormal given the soft bottom. Currents were really only an issue racing.  
 

Then I moved to the NW for a couple of years and had to deal with a 20’ tidal range and 6 knot current. Rocky points completely changed between low and high tide. You could save lots of time cutting a point at high tide with the risk of become infected a “learning experience” for others if you misjudged it and got stranded. You thought about the tide all of the time and unloaded the boat at high tide when the gangway to the floating dock was level, not at low tide when it was a steep climb to shore. 
 

When I moved back to the Chesapeake, it took a couple of years to regain my comfort with thin water. 

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1 hour ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Yep. Living on the Chesapeake, I was very comfortable sailing with 1-1.5 feet under the keel and would happily anchor where the depth at low tide was only about a foot under the keel. Feeling your way across an entrance is not abnormal given the soft bottom. Currents were really only an issue racing.  
 

Then I moved to the NW for a couple of years and had to deal with a 20’ tidal range and 6 knot current. Rocky points completely changed between low and high tide. You could save lots of time cutting a point at high tide with the risk of become infected a “learning experience” for others if you misjudged it and got stranded. You thought about the tide all of the time and unloaded the boat at high tide when the gangway to the floating dock was level, not at low tide when it was a steep climb to shore. 
 

When I moved back to the Chesapeake, it took a couple of years to regain my comfort with thin water. 

I am aground in my slip at really low tide , I can still drag in and out through the mud if I have to.

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The other Chessie thing to learn or unlearn is around here the tide tables are only a suggestion. Prolonged winds can have them WAY off, with a strong NW wind that lasts a day or two you get a "Bay Drainer" with tides possibly 3 or 4 feet lower than normal low tide that don't come back in and a strong storm wind from the south can do the opposite.

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Chessie scares me because the small tides and mud makes it seem harder to get off if you do go aground. At least with granite you bounce off. 

Making anchorages at low tide is ideal as you can see the final shape of the harbor at low tide. Every once in a while you find yourself closer to an errant rock than you might otherwise want. 

Seal Harbor is a nicely protect and popular stop.  I'm guessing the boat BJ has a picture of is off the "Y" of Seal Bay.  It's also next to Winter Harbor which has a real gem for those who brave the rocks and go to its head. I'm a chicken, so I usually anchor in the 8' spot next to the 183' bluff. There is enough water over the overfalls between the two harbors at high tide to dinghy across. 

ACtC-3f-BVgF7AqSknrm6jgWvvRqN0pkIEC0VQFW

Tucked in behind Hay Island. 

ACtC-3epHTvL3zocqUf95Ey9oUL9-jfn3f8xaxdY

Here's the view the other way...Looks nice an open doesn't it? 

ACtC-3fzMLTzPwmwVSKSW-OmR__KABEzVzqQVnRy

 

 

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1 hour ago, Elegua said:

Chessie scares me because the small tides and mud makes it seem harder to get off if you do go aground. At least with granite you bounce off. 

Making anchorages at low tide is ideal as you can see the final shape of the harbor at low tide. Every once in a while you find yourself closer to an errant rock than you might otherwise want. 

Seal Harbor is a nicely protect and popular stop.  I'm guessing the boat BJ has a picture of is off the "Y" of Seal Bay.  It's also next to Winter Harbor which has a real gem for those who brave the rocks and go to its head. I'm a chicken, so I usually anchor in the 8' spot next to the 183' bluff. There is enough water over the overfalls between the two harbors at high tide to dinghy across. 

 

Tucked in behind Hay Island. 

 

Here's the view the other way...Looks nice an open doesn't it? 

 

 

 

Mud is easy...  As KIS says, you can usually power through the first few feet unless you hit the harder clay.  

 

Winter Harbor must have grown up.  I was stationed there (Schoodic) in the 70's and WH was a very sleepy fishing town.  

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2 hours ago, Elegua said:

Chessie scares me because the small tides and mud makes it seem harder to get off if you do go aground. At least with granite you bounce off. 

Depends how hard you it the granite.  If you attack granite hard enough, your navigation problems are over

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15 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Mud is easy...  As KIS says, you can usually power through the first few feet unless you hit the harder clay.  

 

Winter Harbor must have grown up.  I was stationed there (Schoodic) in the 70's and WH was a very sleepy fishing town.  

There's Winter Harbor the town, and then there is Winter Harbor this little cut out. There seem to be 11ty-billion Seal Harbors, Ram Islands, Hog Islands...etc...

This is the little cut out. @Kris Cringle Kris has some great shots since he is braver and goes all the way to the top. 

ACtC-3cMfxKWkNR122SHGP6BJkhWGIfYvLRk-J2g

 

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On 3/16/2021 at 2:15 PM, Kris Cringle said:

Advanced gunk-holer? 

Scottish visitor that thought he chartered a Westerly Centaur? 

1748464099_BennetCoveMDIJuly2019.thumb.jpg.1925fe8c661809eb0d99935c3bfc80b1.jpg

A picture is worth a thousand words and just as many questions. 

Not a good spot. Bennet Cove off MDI, is about the only info I could find on this grounding. Bennet Cove doesn't exist, at least  on the charts. It's a cove at high water only. 

Anyway, for Ajax, this is not worth a stop. 

 

I've seen the same thing in Somesville and the thorofare at IAH. People anchor in a nice open spot in the harbor, go ashore for a bit, come back and they're aground.

Always run aground at low tide, if you can.                                                                                                                                                                                         

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16 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Depends how hard you it the granite.  If you attack granite hard enough, your navigation problems are over

That kind of goes without saying.  Boats from away going fast provide a steady steam of income to local yards. 

Most times there is someone with a fancy something in the yard where it's fun to gawk with the yard crew at the damage and say things like, "Glad I'm not payin' for that!".  Sometimes sailboats, sometimes power yachts. 

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20 minutes ago, Elegua said:

There's Winter Harbor the town, and then there is Winter Harbor this little cut out. There seem to be 11ty-billion Seal Harbors, Ram Islands, Hog Islands...etc...

This is the little cut out. @Kris Cringle Kris has some great shots since he is braver and goes all the way to the top. 

ACtC-3cMfxKWkNR122SHGP6BJkhWGIfYvLRk-J2g

 

We're anchored close to the 11' on your chart in the last of the white. There's room for another boat, maybe two, in single file. The tide was on it's way down. It feels like plenty of room. It's pretty but not as dramatic as where you are at the base of the cliff. 

611551121_WinterHarbor2020.thumb.jpg.7f1a637fe3ea52649b2eabedb4c3d5fa.jpg

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41 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Depends how hard you it the granite.  If you attack granite hard enough, your navigation problems are over

This one set a new bar. ARCHANGEL, a 70' Hylas hit this ledge so hard the carbon fiber rig snapped off 8' above decks. 

2101670341_ArchangelwreckGooseRocks2013.jpg.5c4825544adb7397a9e953bbbbe29333.jpg

To the boats credit, the keel held and didn't leak. 

She floated off at high water and limped in for a haul out and an early end to her season.

989460672_Archangeldocks.jpg.8ba24525e2df2820728ac6c5da856896.jpg

 

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10 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

611551121_WinterHarbor2020.thumb.jpg.7f1a637fe3ea52649b2eabedb4c3d5fa.jpg

Kris, you are a prolific pornographer.  CA's leading purveyor of top-class classic boat porn :D

This is one of your very finest images.  Have you considered placing them with a photo agency, to earn some cash for your 4-legged master?

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3 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

This one set a new bar. ARCHANGEL, a 70' Hylas hit this ledge so hard the carbon fiber rig snapped off 8' above decks. 

2101670341_ArchangelwreckGooseRocks2013.jpg.5c4825544adb7397a9e953bbbbe29333.jpg

To the boats credit, the keel held and didn't leak. 

She floated off at high water and limped in for a haul out and an early end to her season.

Ouch.  Spendy.  Even if she remained watertight, a carbon rig for a 70-footer is very big money.

I am wondering who pays.  The only time I was on a boat which had a serious impact with rocks, the result was no water ingress, but a big repair to the keel floors.  I was asleep below, and the owner-skipper was helming and navigating, so I carried no blame ... but I did help the owner out with the non-trivial insurance claim.  When we perused the insurance policy, there was a clause that the boat had to be "navigated with due care and attention".  I was concerned that the insurers might invoke that, so I took a lot of care to help write the claim in such a way as to fudge that fact the owner was a pig-headed man who was in a funk at the time of incident, and place greater emphasis on the (patchy) fog and other issues.

Do other policies have similar "due care and attention" clauses?  Do insurers invoke them often?

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On 3/10/2021 at 11:53 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

Is this just annoying or worth waiting for the wind to shift?

This a pretty much inevitable result if you are transiting to buzzards bay from cape cod sound.  I may have avoided this once so I would just plan for it.  That said, my strategy that works fairly well is to motor sail with the main travelled high and head off to the right for a few miles until I’m fetching woods hole (if I’m headed for Nantucket or Vineyard haven) and then flop over.  Otherwise you can continue to bear off around as you head towards RI and LIS.   The picture below doesn’t do the phenomenon any justice   I have a short video from around the same moment that is kind of hilarious as far as the standing waves that were stopping us in our tracks   

DA0BB6E4-532F-4693-B910-1CB8AD8363E6.jpeg

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3 hours ago, Elegua said:

Chessie scares me because the small tides and mud makes it seem harder to get off if you do go aground. At least with granite you bounce off. 

Making anchorages at low tide is ideal as you can see the final shape of the harbor at low tide. Every once in a while you find yourself closer to an errant rock than you might otherwise want. 

Seal Harbor is a nicely protect and popular stop.  I'm guessing the boat BJ has a picture of is off the "Y" of Seal Bay.  It's also next to Winter Harbor which has a real gem for those who brave the rocks and go to its head. I'm a chicken, so I usually anchor in the 8' spot next to the 183' bluff. There is enough water over the overfalls between the two harbors at high tide to dinghy across. 

ACtC-3f-BVgF7AqSknrm6jgWvvRqN0pkIEC0VQFW

Tucked in behind Hay Island. 

ACtC-3epHTvL3zocqUf95Ey9oUL9-jfn3f8xaxdY

Here's the view the other way...Looks nice an open doesn't it? 

ACtC-3fzMLTzPwmwVSKSW-OmR__KABEzVzqQVnRy

 

 

I always liked that 7-10' area just west of Burnt Island.  Of course, when my grandson took the dinghy into that 'green' area at low water, there was a LOT of sticky black muck to clean up in the dinghy.  Shore excursions and 12 year olds tend to result in interesting challenges...

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3 hours ago, Elegua said:

Chessie scares me because the small tides and mud makes it seem harder to get off if you do go aground. At least with granite you bounce off. 

Making anchorages at low tide is ideal as you can see the final shape of the harbor at low tide. Every once in a while you find yourself closer to an errant rock than you might otherwise want. 

Seal Harbor is a nicely protect and popular stop.  I'm guessing the boat BJ has a picture of is off the "Y" of Seal Bay.  It's also next to Winter Harbor which has a real gem for those who brave the rocks and go to its head. I'm a chicken, so I usually anchor in the 8' spot next to the 183' bluff. There is enough water over the overfalls between the two harbors at high tide to dinghy across. 

ACtC-3f-BVgF7AqSknrm6jgWvvRqN0pkIEC0VQFW

Tucked in behind Hay Island. 

ACtC-3epHTvL3zocqUf95Ey9oUL9-jfn3f8xaxdY

Here's the view the other way...Looks nice an open doesn't it? 

ACtC-3fzMLTzPwmwVSKSW-OmR__KABEzVzqQVnRy

 

 

Last week I ran aground leaving the marina and then coming back in. We were at about a foot under normal low tide. I had to use full throttle and s-turn through the sand and mud.

If that was a granite rock the results would have been sub-optimal.

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14 minutes ago, Veeger said:

I always liked that 7-10' area just west of Burnt Island.  Of course, when my grandson took the dinghy into that 'green' area at low water, there was a LOT of sticky black muck to clean up in the dinghy.  Shore excursions and 12 year olds tend to result in interesting challenges...

I blame the youngest onboard, but I know who really is responsible. 

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On 3/18/2021 at 1:16 PM, TwoLegged said:

Ouch.  Spendy.  Even if she remained watertight, a carbon rig for a 70-footer is very big money.

I am wondering who pays.  The only time I was on a boat which had a serious impact with rocks, the result was no water ingress, but a big repair to the keel floors.  I was asleep below, and the owner-skipper was helming and navigating, so I carried no blame ... but I did help the owner out with the non-trivial insurance claim.  When we perused the insurance policy, there was a clause that the boat had to be "navigated with due care and attention".  I was concerned that the insurers might invoke that, so I took a lot of care to help write the claim in such a way as to fudge that fact the owner was a pig-headed man who was in a funk at the time of incident, and place greater emphasis on the (patchy) fog and other issues.

Do other policies have similar "due care and attention" clauses?  Do insurers invoke them often?

I'm no insurance expert but I think insurance covers you for any type of ignorance, in-attention, that results in your insured loss. But you may have experience with other policy caveats.

About the only way that would have been denied (in my experience), is if it was proven they did it on purpose. 

As it was, the paid captain and crew had traveled that route many times. Asleep at the wheel, more or less. All the screens onboard I'm sure, showed the impact in real time on the well charted ledge, 4' below water at high tide. 

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44 minutes ago, Kris Cringle said:

I'm no insurance expert but I think insurance covers you for any type of ignorance, in-attention, that results in your insured loss. But you may have experience with other policy caveats.

I find it hard to square that with a "due care and attention" clause.

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15 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

I find it hard to square that with a "due care and attention" clause.

Agreed and interesting point. Perhaps the clause is not a thing for all policies (an EU insurance standard)? 

 

I hit that same ledge the first year I owned my present boat(2000). I was insured with a marine underwriter through my regular insurance broker (for home, vehicles). I was on deck and even had a paper chart in my lap (or somewhere in the cockpit). Like the above captain, I'd sailed through this 2-300 yard wide open channel, many times before in my prior boat. 

 

In my case, under sail, we just cleared the ledge with our 4' draft, but the centerboard, 8' below did not. The bronze board didn't fold up into the trunk; it jammed and the linkage launched the bronze trunk through the house top.

 

Consequently, I ran the boat up on a nearby island just as the water (coming in from the centerboard trunk) in the cabin reached the air intake on the diesel. 

 

Was I taking 'due care and attention', piloting by eye with a paper chart nearby? My piloting error was; the boat wasn't where I thought it was on my chart(not the first or last time for that in my paper only days, I well remember). 

 

We patched the boat up with rubber, goop and screws enough to get to a haul out. The damage was extensive mostly due to water that reached over the pilot berths, engine, etc. 

 

I submitted the claim(my only claim in 30+ years), which amounted to about 2/3rds the insured hull value, and was promptly paid. They continued to insure me. 

 

My piloting or lack of, was never queried. I don't know if I have a 'due care and attention' (I may well, I will look), clause but it seems that clause could be an out for the insurers on nearly any accident.

 

After all, that ledge is - and has been - well charted (but never marked). If you hit the well charted ledge, are you practicing 'due care and attention'?

 

I'd say no. I would call my behavior as carless and in-attentive.   This is what I believe that I insure myself against, as I get the knack.  :) 

 

Many boats, before and after my accident, have left bottom paint on that ledge, by captains with crew and private owners,  and to my knowledge, no claims denied. 

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Good story, @Kris Cringle.

But I disagree with your assessment of your behavior as careless and in-attentive.  Herewith my laywoman's analysis of your story.

A lot of it depends on where he line is drawn, but it seems to me that you were alert, on deck, well aware of your surroundings, and had a chart.  That's pretty good. 

However, you misjudged your position, which is what caused the impact.  A harsh critic might hold that against you, but I don't think that's evidence of a lack of care and attention.  It's a misjudgement which may indicate lack of skill and/or experience, but not lack of care and attention.  You can be absolutely on the ball, and misread position.  That miscalculation has been the cause of most of the groundings of boats I have been aboard (the remainder have either been helm truly not looking where he is going, or helm being a daredevil/eejit).

Where you could have been more fairly accused of lacking care and attention is in proceeding with the vulnerable board down, and at a speed which caused the board to respond so vigorously, with such destructive effect.  That could be reasonably considered as lack of care, with a consequent cut in insurers's liability.  However, your prompt action in beaching the boat prevented a total loss, so your care and attention there should count in your favour as damage limitation.

Of course, in real life there would be established case law defining "due care and attention" in the context of maritime insurance. Depending on how the cases have gone, the "due" part of that may be as lax as not letting the front fall off, or as tight as being part of some strict operating protocol.

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On 3/19/2021 at 3:08 AM, Elegua said:

Chessie scares me because the small tides and mud makes it seem harder to get off if you do go aground. At least with granite you bounce off. 

Making anchorages at low tide is ideal as you can see the final shape of the harbor at low tide. Every once in a while you find yourself closer to an errant rock than you might otherwise want. 

Seal Harbor is a nicely protect and popular stop.  I'm guessing the boat BJ has a picture of is off the "Y" of Seal Bay.  It's also next to Winter Harbor which has a real gem for those who brave the rocks and go to its head. I'm a chicken, so I usually anchor in the 8' spot next to the 183' bluff. There is enough water over the overfalls between the two harbors at high tide to dinghy across. 

ACtC-3f-BVgF7AqSknrm6jgWvvRqN0pkIEC0VQFW

Tucked in behind Hay Island. 

ACtC-3epHTvL3zocqUf95Ey9oUL9-jfn3f8xaxdY

Here's the view the other way...Looks nice an open doesn't it? 

ACtC-3fzMLTzPwmwVSKSW-OmR__KABEzVzqQVnRy

 

 

Pretty much the same spot.

_MG_8219.thumb.jpg.75cc7d864512fef1c40bd2fe83647e71.jpg

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So if my plan works out, how many of us are going to or from Maine? Do we have 3?

Also, what is the thinking re life rafts and/or dinghies? The first part of the trip would involve some fairly cold water. It would seem like you would really want a dinghy too, but I don't really want to tow my RIB all the way to Maine with a car and then tow it all the way back with a boat, it tows well enough but it would suck to be caught in really bad weather offshore with it behind the boat.

I was thinking about grabbing an air-floor dinghy that can be put in a car for transport. That could maybe do double-duty if the boat sank for some random reason. I may be over thinking this, but us Chessie sailors think any water colder than 80 degrees is Arctic.

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

So if my plan works out, how many of us are going to or from Maine? Do we have 3?

Also, what is the thinking re life rafts and/or dinghies? The first part of the trip would involve some fairly cold water. It would seem like you would really want a dinghy too, but I don't really want to tow my RIB all the way to Maine with a car and then tow it all the way back with a boat, it tows well enough but it would suck to be caught in really bad weather offshore with it behind the boat.

I was thinking about grabbing an air-floor dinghy that can be put in a car for transport. That could maybe do double-duty if the boat sank for some random reason. I may be over thinking this, but us Chessie sailors think any water colder than 80 degrees is Arctic.

 

 

 

No liferaft. I'll die like a man. I have a SPOT tracker which I will activate. I'll probably subscribe to their lifesaving plan to save the extra steps of my wife calling the USCG and trying to explain to them what's happening. I'll file as detailed a float plan as I can before I leave. Since I'll be coastal with the SPOT tracker, I don't think I'll rent an EPIRB.

Dinghy: Yes. I prefer to bring my Dyer but it may end up being my red inflatable. Either way, I'm bringing my trolling motor with a fat, Lithium battery. The inflatable will row for shit so the trolling motor will be almost necessary depending on the current. In either case, the dinghy will out of the water, lashed to the foredeck of deflated and stuffed into the q-berth.

My leave of absence from work starts Monday, July 5th. If I get my shit together, I may leave on Friday or Saturday (2nd/3rd). If you like, I'm willing to exchange MMSI numbers for DSC calling and position reports.

Edit: Who's the 3rd party? I was only aware of you and I.

Edited by Ajax
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8 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Pretty much the same spot.

_MG_8219.thumb.jpg.75cc7d864512fef1c40bd2fe83647e71.jpg

People, often the chartplotter crowd, assume the rocks are located exactly where the asterisk says they are, when often these are just suggestions. 

That said, a distant-ish relative of mine, who is a local, put his future father in-law's J46 on the bricks pretty hard for doing exactly that.  He gave instructions to his future wife on to which side she could pass a bell without checking exactly where they were.  

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We'll probably be heading up from Boston (well, Salem) around the end of July for a couple of weeks.  We have an air floor dinghy and an ePropulsion outboard, so if we hit a submerged shipping container I just hope that we have 30 minutes or so with a working battery to get it out of the lazarette, unroll it and inflate all five chambers, and a friendly sea breeze to help us as we whir shoreward at two knots.

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You can buy a drysuit or two much cheaper than a liferaft, if cost is an issue. A drysuit, inflatable PFD with strobe, and a waterproof handheld VHF (fully charged, duh) should be enough for a singlehander or shorthand crew in the GOM. 

We own liferafts, for obvious reasons. I'll be giving one away, again, this season as the racing rules for Bermuda will not grandfather our winslow, which I believe to be the best, but is not accepted by ORC. 

You do not  want to be unprotected in the water in the GOM for even a short period of time. My life is valuable,to me. My wife's even moreso. Safety gear is cheap by comparison. 

When we started doing these crossings we always had kids aboard. If you do that without a liferaft your value system is different from mine.

I'm replacing our rod rigging this year, not because we have to, but because after 15 years of seasonal use $16 k seems cheaper than fucking with a broken mast in the gulfstream in shitty weather with a bunch of 60-70 year old guys. At 67 years old, this ought to get me to the end with this boat. 

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12 hours ago, Ajax said:

No liferaft. I'll die like a man. I have a SPOT tracker which I will activate. I'll probably subscribe to their lifesaving plan to save the extra steps of my wife calling the USCG and trying to explain to them what's happening. I'll file as detailed a float plan as I can before I leave. Since I'll be coastal with the SPOT tracker, I don't think I'll rent an EPIRB.

Dinghy: Yes. I prefer to bring my Dyer but it may end up being my red inflatable. Either way, I'm bringing my trolling motor with a fat, Lithium battery. The inflatable will row for shit so the trolling motor will be almost necessary depending on the current. In either case, the dinghy will out of the water, lashed to the foredeck of deflated and stuffed into the q-berth.

My leave of absence from work starts Monday, July 5th. If I get my shit together, I may leave on Friday or Saturday (2nd/3rd). If you like, I'm willing to exchange MMSI numbers for DSC calling and position reports.

Edit: Who's the 3rd party? I was only aware of you and I.

HI Ajax,

I would be the 3rd.  Just got time off squared away so we will be leaving from RI (we are doing A2N in June) around 7/12.  Need to be back at work on 8/9.  We are Galesville based normally.  

cheers, 

T

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20 hours ago, Ajax said:

No liferaft. I'll die like a man. I have a SPOT tracker which I will activate. I'll probably subscribe to their lifesaving plan to save the extra steps of my wife calling the USCG and trying to explain to them what's happening. I'll file as detailed a float plan as I can before I leave. Since I'll be coastal with the SPOT tracker, I don't think I'll rent an EPIRB.

Dinghy: Yes. I prefer to bring my Dyer but it may end up being my red inflatable. Either way, I'm bringing my trolling motor with a fat, Lithium battery. The inflatable will row for shit so the trolling motor will be almost necessary depending on the current. In either case, the dinghy will out of the water, lashed to the foredeck of deflated and stuffed into the q-berth.

My leave of absence from work starts Monday, July 5th. If I get my shit together, I may leave on Friday or Saturday (2nd/3rd). If you like, I'm willing to exchange MMSI numbers for DSC calling and position reports.

Edit: Who's the 3rd party? I was only aware of you and I.

You can buy a survival suite off FleaBay for about $100, so you may not actually have to die like a man this trip. Thanks CL for that idea! My calculus is a bit different, I won't be alone on the boat and thus responsible for other people's lives. I might just find an inflatable that fits on the foredeck, but I will have something that is better than swimming in cold water.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

You can buy a drysuit or two much cheaper than a liferaft, if cost is an issue. A drysuit, inflatable PFD with strobe, and a waterproof handheld VHF (fully charged, duh) should be enough for a singlehander or shorthand crew in the GOM. 

We own liferafts, for obvious reasons. I'll be giving one away, again, this season as the racing rules for Bermuda will not grandfather our winslow, which I believe to be the best, but is not accepted by ORC. 

You do not  want to be unprotected in the water in the GOM for even a short period of time. My life is valuable,to me. My wife's even moreso. Safety gear is cheap by comparison. 

When we started doing these crossings we always had kids aboard. If you do that without a liferaft your value system is different from mine.

I'm replacing our rod rigging this year, not because we have to, but because after 15 years of seasonal use $16 k seems cheaper than fucking with a broken mast in the gulfstream in shitty weather with a bunch of 60-70 year old guys. At 67 years old, this ought to get me to the end with this boat. 

You mean something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AQUATA-185-CM-INSULATED-IMMERSION-SUIT-SOLAS-APPROVED-THERMAL-PROTECTIVE-SUITS/132207508487?hash=item1ec82e7c07%3Ag%3AvQUAAOSw~y9ZKsXQ&LH_BIN=1

s-l500.jpg

 

This thing is cheap enough I might grab one or two even if I don't go to Maine. If I get brave I might even try it while our water is still Maine temps.

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On 3/21/2021 at 9:51 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

So if my plan works out, how many of us are going to or from Maine? Do we have 3?

Also, what is the thinking re life rafts and/or dinghies?

 

 

 

I'd hope to be spending a good chunk of August downeast, but let's see how getting the boat back to Boston from Florida, then scrambling to get our first jabs goes first. 

First trip I did, I had an inflated dinghy on the foredeck of a Catalina 30 - that was the lift raft, but also had EPIRB and PLB aboard, and I was solo.

1593797304_1(17).thumb.jpeg.d0044c2d051cec79cad3aa04a6dbd4ce.jpeg

Last year, bigger boat, dinghy on the foredeck and a raft. That felt better.

1975533802_1(18).thumb.jpeg.11ee295c5f34f13dd1ff76ff7205e9f9.jpeg
This year, there'll be a better dinghy on the foredeck and a newly expired raft - $1,200 to re-certify, so I'll maybe hold off until a race requires it.

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@kent_island_sailorI have a wetsuit for cutting lobster pots free of the prop shaft. I'll check out the survival suits and pick one up if I can.

@T sailorRoger that. We may actually be able to synchronize. I'm not expecting any special help or attention. If I end up as a smear on the bow of a big commercial trawler, just notify someone, that's all.

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5 hours ago, Ajax said:

@kent_island_sailorI have a wetsuit for cutting lobster pots free of the prop shaft. I'll check out the survival suits and pick one up if I can.

@T sailorRoger that. We may actually be able to synchronize. I'm not expecting any special help or attention. If I end up as a smear on the bow of a big commercial trawler, just notify someone, that's all.

We had good luck with a Shaft Shark. Catching pots is almost unavoidable in some places, where the tide pulls the floats under and pots are rigged with toggles you can hardly see them. I don't love cutting the floats, but there's often no other way so I'd rather the float cut itself.

Without a life raft, I'd give a long and hard look at one of those Gumby suits. They're bulky, but there's no sense dying stupidly.

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10 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

You mean something like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AQUATA-185-CM-INSULATED-IMMERSION-SUIT-SOLAS-APPROVED-THERMAL-PROTECTIVE-SUITS/132207508487?hash=item1ec82e7c07%3Ag%3AvQUAAOSw~y9ZKsXQ&LH_BIN=1

s-l500.jpg

 

This thing is cheap enough I might grab one or two even if I don't go to Maine. If I get brave I might even try it while our water is still Maine temps.

I suspect CL is talking dry suits, like these:

dsuhsereb-hydrus_30-swift_entry_w_relief

They aren't cheap, but they are (apparently) much easier to actually do things in. The gumby's are useless for trying to work in. Notice the nice pee zip.

https://kokatat.com/hydrus-3l-swift-entry-dry-suit-with-relief-zipper-and-socks-dsuhser

 

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5 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I suspect CL is talking dry suits, like these:

dsuhsereb-hydrus_30-swift_entry_w_relief

They aren't cheap, but they are (apparently) much easier to actually do things in. The gumby's are useless for trying to work in. Notice the nice pee zip.

https://kokatat.com/hydrus-3l-swift-entry-dry-suit-with-relief-zipper-and-socks-dsuhser

 

OTOH, I might not want to wear a dry suit when the boat is not actively sinking and the gumby suits are designed to be donned in a big hurry. Dry suits are not that warm, just dry, so you need something under them. The suit you linked to seems great for wet and chilly sailing, but it costs about 4-5 times what a FleaBay gumby suit costs.

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3 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

OTOH, I might not want to wear a dry suit when the boat is not actively sinking and the gumby suits are designed to be donned in a big hurry. Dry suits are not that warm, just dry, so you need something under them. The suit you linked to seems great for wet and chilly sailing, but it costs about 4-5 times what a FleaBay gumby suit costs.

Yes, as noted they aren't cheap, and the one I linked is one of the less expensive choices. If I had an unlimited budget I'd love to have one for kayak excursions, but that's a very unlikely scenario. 

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I love my Kokatat dry suit. Best foul weather gear ever. Dry, comfortable neoprene neck, breathes well. Just stand back when I decant myself after wearing it for three days straight, even if I've been wearing wool undies. 

That said, it's not a replacement for a ditch suit.  Different porpoises. 

I have mixed feeling about line cutters. Many people have them. I don't.  I believe they work well until you really catch something and then once jammed, are very hard to cut free, or they cut most, but not all. I only know this in theory, because I seldom catch anything. 

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