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22 minutes ago, Mark K said:

 A nice thought but the floors aren't laid for heavy industry, start hauling around sheet steel they will crack to shit. Most the stores are too small for anything meaningful as far as mfg goes. They could make great retirement communities though. The small stores can be apartments, the large ones super markets. Grandpa and grandma would hardly ever have to drive. This would be is a good thing.   

There could be a Trump™ Casino in each mall. That would guarantee their failure.

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On 3/7/2021 at 12:07 PM, Mark K said:

 A nice thought but the floors aren't laid for heavy industry, start hauling around sheet steel they will crack to shit. Most the stores are too small for anything meaningful as far as mfg goes. They could make great retirement communities though. The small stores can be apartments, the large ones super markets. Grandpa and grandma would hardly ever have to drive. This would be is a good thing.   

Light industry, not heavy, there is no 440 or 880 in these malls anyway, nor the right ventilation or floors.

Those malls are well-setup for light industry. The floors can handle digital printing, food production, furniture making, fabrics, electronics, pneumatic wheels.

I like your idea of retirement communities, but as far as I can tell, we're chock-a-block full with those now. My little town has five of them, they compete with each other for residents, and the newer ones are half-empty, and supposedly designed to be profitable at that capacity, I have no idea how.

But light industry, I've never seen enough capacity anywhere. It either shoehorns into commercial space, which sucks, or it's overwhelmed in heavy industrial space. Even worse, some of these high-tech manufacturers have to splurge on overhead in these tech parks, for services they don't need. Light manufacturing needs lots of 220 VAC, and institutional/commercial floors are usually fine when they're on the base level, as these abandoned malls usually are. If it's an issue, the tenant can add a topping course to the floor.

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On 3/3/2021 at 3:33 AM, Shambolic Tom said:

Sounds like a multi-million dollar idea to me. If you start with a billion, that is.

If you wanted to turn it into a regular million dollar idea, start with a billion and substitute "sailboats" for "electric bikes."

The whole point of it is not to invest a dime, but rather get into the county zoning boards to allow light manufacturing these disused malls. The main investment from the owners would be to maintain the roof and the parking lots.

I don't know what it's like in Florida, but out West, these dying malls are a real problem, and the county zoning boards haven't quite wrapped their heads around a path forward.

https://www.silverdoctors.com/gold/gold-news/dead-mall-syndrome-the-self-reinforcing-death-spiral-of-retail/

The critical path forward, in my opinion, is one that recognizes that Americans are now saving money again, they're increasingly spending less, and degrowth is a real issue, the main population that is saving us now from full-on population inversion are the Latin American immigrants that both Demublicans and Republicrats seems to shit all over.

We don't have the investment for the light manufacturing that our economy desperately needs, we need to repurpose.

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On 3/7/2021 at 11:57 AM, Burning Man said:

I sincerely wish the leaders of the states and towns who have pushed and are continuing to push for No mask mandates as well as the people who disregarded and will continue to disregard the CDC mask wearing recommendations would all just get covid and die.  Yep, that sounds harsh, but it's how I feel right now.  A year ago I was much more lenient on stupidity because of ignorance.  But a year into this, there is no possible way there is any one out there who doesn't know it's a bad thing to go maskless.  Those that do are doing it out of knowing and deliberate disregard for the safety guidelines of themselves and others.  SO FUCK THEM!

I woke up at 4:00 am this morning, hacking up the phlegm from the fiberglass dust from the auto body work I'm doing. I couldn't find a proper vented mask for love nor money, they've all apparently gone to people who wear them as COVID masks, with no concern for their fellow humans, but I guess they're either too stupid to realize the vents allow their pathogens out unhindered, or they just don't give a shit that the vents allow out their pathogens, and their only concern is themselves with the air filtered in.

So I'm sanding the rear quarter panel with a triple layer of cotton bandana, which is better than nothing and I'm a little pissed too. Look closely at a lot of these mask-wearers, JBSF, a lot of them are not-from-concentrate assholes. The ignorance you describe exists on a lot of levels ...

https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/cdc-warns-masks-with-valves-vents-dont-prevent-spread-of-covid-19/

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On 3/2/2021 at 11:06 PM, Mark K said:

Within a month they all agreed to rotate the in-house job. Getting at least day a week out of the house is clearly desired, like you say. The tedium of always being at home messes with ya, and not in a good way.      

What COVID lock-down did was force everybody refine the paperless office concept. This does take some getting used to,  some invention, and there is always a bit of resistance to change.  

We just switched to 4x10's.  During covid..  Still trying to figure out how to sit in front of this damn thing 10 hrs a day...  Feel for the people with kids...  It's a flex 10 though, but no room to play with hours etc as no where to go...  It has been um Challenging....  Best was 3 days in office and 2 out.  They were totally flexible if you planned ahead so taking a Thursday at home was a thing after a hard wed night...  And Fridays were "Hey boss can I go it from home today??"  90% of the time it was granted.  Got soooo much done with that flexibility.  

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On 3/7/2021 at 12:57 PM, Burning Man said:

I sincerely wish the leaders of the states and towns who have pushed and are continuing to push for No mask mandates as well as the people who disregarded and will continue to disregard the CDC mask wearing recommendations would all just get covid and die.  Yep, that sounds harsh, but it's how I feel right now.  A year ago I was much more lenient on stupidity because of ignorance.  But a year into this, there is no possible way there is any one out there who doesn't know it's a bad thing to go maskless.  Those that do are doing it out of knowing and deliberate disregard for the safety guidelines of themselves and others.  SO FUCK THEM!

Highlands ranch in CO just had a st patty's day party.  Hundreds of maskless elbow to elbow in a beer garden in the town square...  This aint gonna end until we reach heard and with these idiots it's going to be another year. 

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CDC just extended the moratorium until end of June ...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-extends-eviction-moratorium-until-late-june/ar-BB1f5TjF

I don't know about MOST people who are using the COVID exemption, but I know that in my case, my grandmother's house is full of people (now apparently including a child-care business with unmasked employees) from people who have good jobs and have every means to pay their rent, but instead spend it on non-rent things.

But the narrative is sufficiently compelling ... the evil landlords are tossing COVID-victims out and tying them to railroad tracks as they twiddle and turn their mustaches and cackle an evil laugh.

 

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On 3/18/2021 at 9:37 AM, shaggy said:

Highlands ranch in CO just had a st patty's day party.  Hundreds of maskless elbow to elbow in a beer garden in the town square...  This aint gonna end until we reach heard and with these idiots it's going to be another year. 

What's un-fucking-believable is we, as a society, prioritized opening bar$ over opening schools.  Every teacher in the country should have been one of the first in line to get a shot given they are about as "essential" a worker as it gets.  Think about that for a moment........

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

What's un-fucking-believable is we, as a society, prioritized opening bar$ over opening schools.  Every teacher in the country should have been one of the first in line to get a shot given they are about as "essential" a worker as it gets.  Think about that for a moment........

 

 

You try being a teacher without the sweet release of alcohol.....

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

CDC just extended the moratorium until end of June ...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-extends-eviction-moratorium-until-late-june/ar-BB1f5TjF

I don't know about MOST people who are using the COVID exemption, but I know that in my case, my grandmother's house is full of people (now apparently including a child-care business with unmasked employees) from people who have good jobs and have every means to pay their rent, but instead spend it on non-rent things.

But the narrative is sufficiently compelling ... the evil landlords are tossing COVID-victims out and tying them to railroad tracks as they twiddle and turn their mustaches and cackle an evil laugh.

 

Yep, I've got one of those in one of my rentals too.  I've tried to work with her and tell her it's better to at least make some payments and avoid eviction rather than just ride it out.  She won't even take my calls now because she is the sort of person who can only see as far as that week into the future.  I give up. She is in for a harsh surprise when her eviction notice hits the day this is lifted, her shit's in the street, she can't rent a decent place ever again and her pay is garnished to pay this back rent.  She was pulling this shit long before the pandemic started, so I have zero sympathy for her.  She will quickly come to understand the consequences of her actions in a few months even though she refuses to see it now.  And it's not been due to lack of trying on my part to help her.   In the meantime, I'm just going to lay low and let her think she's gotten away with something so she doesn't trash the house before I toss her out.  

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1 minute ago, Ease the sheet. said:

You try being a teacher without the sweet release of alcohol.....

Last I checked, liquor stores were still open.  Nothing stops them from picking up a bottle of wine or some whisky on the way home from the school.  

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9 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So the gov enacts a rent/eviction moratorium, fails to compensate landlords and the tenants are the problem?

You guys are fucked.

No not the fault of all tenants.  But you obviously are reading comprehension challenged.  Go back and reread what mikey and I wrote and get back to us with an amended response.  

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Just now, Burning Man said:

No not the fault of all tenants.  But you obviously are reading comprehension challenged.  Go back and reread what mikey and I wrote and get back to us with an amended response.  

Not reading challenged at all.

 

Blame the program, not the ones ripping it off.

Especially seeing *ripping it off" seems cultural.

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12 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:
14 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

No not the fault of all tenants.  But you obviously are reading comprehension challenged.  Go back and reread what mikey and I wrote and get back to us with an amended response.  

Not reading challenged at all.

 

Blame the program, not the ones ripping it off.

Especially seeing *ripping it off" seems cultural.

I never "blamed" the program.  I just wish it had something in it for landlords.  In fact a far better thing would have been to send the rent money directly to the landlords and bypassed the tenants completely.  There are too many people who have no self-control when they get a big wad of cash suddenly showing up in their pockets.  

The issue with the program sending money directly to the renters is there is no obligation on them to give the money to the landlords, and hence many are taking advantage of the gov'ts taxpayers largesse.  There are too many people out there who stopped paying the moment they heard about the moratorium because they thought they could get off not paying and were not bright enough to understand that it wasn't going to prevent future evictions and credit history hits.  

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5 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

I never "blamed" the program.  I just wish it had something in it for landlords.  In fact a far better thing would have been to send the rent money directly to the landlords and bypassed the tenants completely.  There are too many people who have no self-control when they get a big wad of cash suddenly showing up in their pockets.  

The issue with the program sending money directly to the renters is there is no obligation on them to give the money to the landlords, and hence many are taking advantage of the gov'ts taxpayers largesse.  There are too many people out there who stopped paying the moment they heard about the moratorium because they thought they could get off not paying and were not bright enough to understand that it wasn't going to prevent future evictions and credit history hits.  

The fact that landlords are getting screwed over is because the program is poorly designed.

Sending money to the renter's is silly. I agree it should go to the landlords, or better, to the banks.

Actually sending money to anyone is silly.

Tenants get rent relief, landlords should get mortgage/expense/tax relief.

 

The program is poorly designed.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Yep, I've got one of those in one of my rentals too.  I've tried to work with her and tell her it's better to at least make some payments and avoid eviction rather than just ride it out.  She won't even take my calls now because she is the sort of person who can only see as far as that week into the future.  I give up. She is in for a harsh surprise when her eviction notice hits the day this is lifted, her shit's in the street, she can't rent a decent place ever again and her pay is garnished to pay this back rent.  She was pulling this shit long before the pandemic started, so I have zero sympathy for her.  She will quickly come to understand the consequences of her actions in a few months even though she refuses to see it now.  And it's not been due to lack of trying on my part to help her.   In the meantime, I'm just going to lay low and let her think she's gotten away with something so she doesn't trash the house before I toss her out.  

Did she file the CDC COVID exemption?

If she did, you're not going to be able to evict her until July at the earliest. In my case, they haven't paid any rent since October, haven't paid gas, electric, water, they've broken doors, plumbing, broke the lease with extra people (possibly charging rent or childcare fees) and the housing courts won't touch these cases while the CDC moratorium is in place.

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1 hour ago, Burning Man said:

I never "blamed" the program.  I just wish it had something in it for landlords.  In fact a far better thing would have been to send the rent money directly to the landlords and bypassed the tenants completely.  There are too many people who have no self-control when they get a big wad of cash suddenly showing up in their pockets.  

The issue with the program sending money directly to the renters is there is no obligation on them to give the money to the landlords, and hence many are taking advantage of the gov'ts taxpayers largesse.  There are too many people out there who stopped paying the moment they heard about the moratorium because they thought they could get off not paying and were not bright enough to understand that it wasn't going to prevent future evictions and credit history hits.  

It depends on your state. In Colorado, the rent money can go directly to the landlord, through the Property Owner's Preservation Program, but the tenant files a single one-page form to get the COVID protection, they just have to attest that they are trying to make some payments and they have lost their revenue due to COVID. (In my case, they haven't tried to make any payments at all, and they still work and have jobs and have a porch full of Amazon purchases.)

But the reimbursement for the landlord is another thing. To get one check took me about 80 hours of work, the requests have to be compliant with HUD guidelines, and about 35 pages of documents. Then the reimbursement guidelines changed and I had to start again. That's just for one check since October 2019.

Section 8 is much simpler and it actually works because it's been in place for decades. They should have just used the Section 8 program they already had for COVID.

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2 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So the gov enacts a rent/eviction moratorium, fails to compensate landlords and the tenants are the problem?

You guys are fucked.

Erm!

 

The government enacted an eviction moratorium, not a rent moratorium.

There is a huge difference.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Yep, I've got one of those in one of my rentals too.  I've tried to work with her and tell her it's better to at least make some payments and avoid eviction rather than just ride it out.  She won't even take my calls now because she is the sort of person who can only see as far as that week into the future.  I give up. She is in for a harsh surprise when her eviction notice hits the day this is lifted, her shit's in the street, she can't rent a decent place ever again and her pay is garnished to pay this back rent.  She was pulling this shit long before the pandemic started, so I have zero sympathy for her.  She will quickly come to understand the consequences of her actions in a few months even though she refuses to see it now.  And it's not been due to lack of trying on my part to help her.   In the meantime, I'm just going to lay low and let her think she's gotten away with something so she doesn't trash the house before I toss her out.  

Do you know how long it takes someone to flush 3 tampons down the toilet, punch a hole in 3 closet doors, spread root beer on the walls, and do 15 chin ups on the copper (or PVC) plumbing in  basement?

 $50K of damage before they even have their car packed, and disappear into the night. Trust me. I know this.

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2 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Do you know how long it takes someone to flush 3 tampons down the toilet, punch a hole in 3 closet doors, spread root beer on the walls, and do 15 chin ups on the copper (or PVC) plumbing in  basement?

 $50K of damage before they even have their car packed, and disappear into the night. Trust me. I know this.

I've been invited to the pre-eviction party and it's BYOG, I'm bringing my girly .380 and 1000 rds.  I've already called dibs on anything porcelain and if the water keeps running, so be it. Water damage is a big bitch.   I'm also curious how many walls this lowly caliber can penetrate.  Both horizontal and vertical.  Black mold sucks.  

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6 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Do you know how long it takes someone to flush 3 tampons down the toilet, punch a hole in 3 closet doors, spread root beer on the walls, and do 15 chin ups on the copper (or PVC) plumbing in  basement?

 $50K of damage before they even have their car packed, and disappear into the night. Trust me. I know this.

I had one tenant sell everything in the house in a yard sale ... not the furnace or the water heater, but the closet doors, stove, fridge, dishwasher, fixtures. Cops know where he was, did nada. But even that wasn't as bad as the tenant who followed that guy, they were there for 18 months, and it took me three dumpsters to clear them out. It looked like they had left the contents of a Goodwill in that house.

It's tough to control a vindictive tenant.

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11 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Blame the program, not the ones ripping it off.

Why not both?

The eviction moratorium exists, but that doesn't mean tenants have to avail themselves of it.

In the past year, I've had 2 rental properties with tenants who had a bit of trouble paying. One couple works in a restaurant. They were a couple of weeks late a couple of times. One paralegal quit her job for a better one with the county, but then Covid-related layoffs happened and the last ones hired were the first ones laid off. Took her a while to find a new job and she actually missed paying a month. She's back at work, all paid up, and having no problems now.

In both cases, they unquestionably suffered Covid-related financial troubles. They communicated with me throughout and eviction never crossed my mind and they never mentioned the moratorium. They're long term tenants who take care of the property and, at least when they can, pay on time. The last thing I want is to lose them.

If they had attitudes like the tenants Jeff and Mike apparently have, I'd blame them AND the program that shifts the burden of their bad behavior to landlords.

11 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Tenants get rent relief, landlords should get mortgage/expense/tax relief.

And the banks that are depending on landlords to keep paying mortgages?

And how about landlords who have no mortgage?

 

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The CDC vs The Constitution
 

Quote

 

...

As Lopez teaches, it would take more than a few inferences to conclude that the landlord-tenant relationship is anything other than local (not interstate) activity. Those who disagree ought to heed District Judge J. Campbell Barker, who in a recent ruling against the CDC remarked that the "federal government cannot say that it has ever before invoked its power over interstate commerce to impose a residential eviction moratorium."

...

 

The judge's opinion also says,

Quote

Here, the regulated activity is not the production or use of a commodity that is traded in an interstate market. Rather, the challenged order regulates property rights in buildings—specifically, whether an owner may regain possession of property from an inhabitant. 86Fed. Reg. at 8,021 (defining “eviction” as any action “to remove or cause the removal of a covered person from a residential property”). Real estate is inherently local. Residential buildings do not move across state lines.

It's kind of funny when a judge is moved to point out that real estate can't be sent to another state.

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8 hours ago, Shambolic Tom said:

The CDC vs The Constitution
 

The judge's opinion also says,

It's kind of funny when a judge is moved to point out that real estate can't be sent to another state.

And yet, a Federal Judge, an eventual Supreme Court case, and the moratorium continues ... almost as if none of the former really holds any sway over fear and popular opinion.

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On 4/2/2021 at 2:01 PM, mikewof said:

And yet, a Federal Judge, an eventual Supreme Court case, and the moratorium continues ... almost exactly as if none of the former really holds any sway over fear and popular opinion.

FIFY.

Federal Regulators Require Rent Collectors To Lie About the CDC's Illegal Eviction Moratorium
 

Quote

 

A federal rule that took effect yesterday requires that anyone attempting to collect unpaid rent tell tenants they may be protected by the residential eviction moratorium that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) imposed in September. Yet federal courts have repeatedly held that the moratorium, which the CDC recently extended through June 30, is invalid because it exceeds the agency's legal authority.

The New Civil Liberties Alliance (NCLA), which yesterday sued the CFPB on behalf of residential property managers and Louisiana real estate attorney Gordon Schoeffler, argues that the rule, which the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) issued under a statute that forbids "false or misleading representations," requires debt collectors to lie. The NCLA's complaint, which it filed in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee, says the CFPB's rule violates the Administrative Procedure Act because it is not authorized by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

The NCLA also argues that the rule violates the First Amendment by mandating false statements. "The rule requires Plaintiffs to falsely inform tenants, in writing, that they are entitled to protection under the Halt Order, when, in fact, the Order has been deemed unenforceable by multiple judges," the NCLA says.

...

The CDC's legal rationale suggests the agency's authority encompasses any policy that is plausibly related to disease control, including business closures and a national stay-at-home order as well as the federal face mask mandate that President Joe Biden concluded he did not have the power to impose. Three federal judges and a federal appeals court have rejected that premise, saying the CDC does not have the power it claims.

...

The CDC has carried on as if these rulings never happened, repeatedly extending its moratorium. Now the CFPB has followed suit, mandating that tenants "to whom the CDC Order reasonably might apply" receive notice "clearly and conspicuously in writing" that they "may be eligible for temporary protection from eviction under the CDC Order." Its rule also prohibits rent collectors from "falsely representing or implying" that a tenant "is ineligible for temporary protection from eviction."

...

Real estate attorneys like Schoeffler face a similar dilemma. "On behalf of his clients," the NCLA complaint says, Schoeffler "seeks to collect rent and seek eviction when warranted under Louisiana law." But under the CFPB rule, "he will be required to make inaccurate disclosures to those tenants concerning the possibility of protection under the Halt Order, even though the Halt Order has been repeatedly held unlawful, and he believes it to be unlawful." These "forced, untrue disclosures," the NCLA argues, would violate Louisiana's Rules of Professional Responsibility, which say an attorney may not, in the course of representing a client, "make a false statement of material fact or law to a third person."

Perversely, the CFPB says telling tenants they may be eligible for protection does not violate the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act "even if the consumer is not reasonably eligible to be a covered person." It is likewise perfectly OK to give tenants false hope when they live in "a jurisdiction in which the CDC Order does not apply."

In other words, telling the truth is prohibited, while telling lies is either mandatory or at least permitted. All this in the name of enforcing a statute that forbids "false or misleading representations."

 

 

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5 hours ago, Excoded Tom said:

 

Shitshow. I try not to think about it too much.

In our case, the tenants are still in my grandmother's old house, they continue to damage it, they won't pay gas, electric, water, haven't paid a dime in rent since October 2020. And even though they both work and make very good salaries, one for a mortgage bank, the other for a roofing company, the CDC moratorium protects them from eviction. We have now taken to giving the downstairs tenants a 35% cut in their rent for the last few months because the upstairs tenants make their lives miserable with noise, blocking their door with broken vehicles, regular fighting.

Our costs continue to mount, though we did get a few months rent from the State, but just a few, most of the rent is still unpaid, the State has made the reimbursement process so complicated, it's nearly impossible to navigate, the reimbursement has to comply with HUD rules for Section 8, which is nearly impossible when the tenant it motivated for it NOT to be compliant with HUD rules, to extend the eviction in Court.

Meanwhile, the masks are disappearing, the restaurants and bars and stores are mostly back to normal, and yet the shitshow with tenancy remains.

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19 hours ago, mikewof said:

the shitshow with tenancy remains.

Have a little patience. The emergency related to the Iranian hostage crisis is still going on. Sometimes it takes a while for an emergency to subside. Any decade now!

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19 hours ago, mikewof said:

 

Shitshow. I try not to think about it too much.

In our case, the tenants are still in my grandmother's old house, they continue to damage it, they won't pay gas, electric, water, haven't paid a dime in rent since October 2020. And even though they both work and make very good salaries, one for a mortgage bank, the other for a roofing company, the CDC moratorium protects them from eviction. We have now taken to giving the downstairs tenants a 35% cut in their rent for the last few months because the upstairs tenants make their lives miserable with noise, blocking their door with broken vehicles, regular fighting.

Our costs continue to mount, though we did get a few months rent from the State, but just a few, most of the rent is still unpaid, the State has made the reimbursement process so complicated, it's nearly impossible to navigate, the reimbursement has to comply with HUD rules for Section 8, which is nearly impossible when the tenant it motivated for it NOT to be compliant with HUD rules, to extend the eviction in Court.

Meanwhile, the masks are disappearing, the restaurants and bars and stores are mostly back to normal, and yet the shitshow with tenancy remains.

The prisons and jails are filled to over flowing.  In Georgia we do our part.  Is your glass have empty or did you spill it on the floor?

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On 3/30/2021 at 5:19 PM, Burning Man said:

Yep, I've got one of those in one of my rentals too.  I've tried to work with her and tell her it's better to at least make some payments and avoid eviction rather than just ride it out.  She won't even take my calls now because she is the sort of person who can only see as far as that week into the future.  I give up. She is in for a harsh surprise when her eviction notice hits the day this is lifted, her shit's in the street, she can't rent a decent place ever again and her pay is garnished to pay this back rent.  She was pulling this shit long before the pandemic started, so I have zero sympathy for her.  She will quickly come to understand the consequences of her actions in a few months even though she refuses to see it now.  And it's not been due to lack of trying on my part to help her.   In the meantime, I'm just going to lay low and let her think she's gotten away with something so she doesn't trash the house before I toss her out.  

Digging a tenant out of a residential rental in FL is a PITA. I’ve had professional deadbeats who were practiced at delaying the process at every stage. Their demeanor always changes once the Sheriff shows up to pitch them out. 
You can’t get PPP or any remedy? That’s fubar. 

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2 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Digging a tenant out of a residential rental in FL is a PITA. I’ve had professional deadbeats who were practiced at delaying the process at every stage. Their demeanor always changes once the Sheriff shows up to pitch them out. 
You can’t get PPP or any remedy? That’s fubar. 

It is wonderful to be thrown into the street.  I wish they would smile more.

Prisons are quite expensive to maintain.  Where are the poor houses?  Let's bring back the serfs.

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7 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Digging a tenant out of a residential rental in FL is a PITA. I’ve had professional deadbeats who were practiced at delaying the process at every stage. Their demeanor always changes once the Sheriff shows up to pitch them out. 
You can’t get PPP or any remedy? That’s fubar. 

It takes about a month for my lawyer, or did prior to the panicdemic moratorium. That's way better than a lot of states, where it can and does drag on for years.

2 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So what would happen if you hired some muscle and just evicted them?

Unless the "muscle" in question is the Sheriff and you've gone through the court first, you'll be arrested and fined at the very least.

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2 minutes ago, hasher said:

It is wonderful to be thrown into the street.  I wish they would smile more.

Prisons are quite expensive to maintain.  Where are the poor houses?  Let's bring back the serfs.

It is when they are professional deadbeats. They only smile when they gum up the process and keep someone from recouping the money from their investment. They don’t smile when they get pitched and they suddenly want sympathy. 
The people whose property they steal work for a living too. 

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5 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

It is when they are professional deadbeats. They only smile when they gum up the process and keep someone from recouping the money from their investment. They don’t smile when they get pitched and they suddenly want sympathy. 
The people whose property they steal work for a living too. 

It is easy to judge or to label.

Personally, I just opened a very nice bottle.

I have spent a lot of time in night shelters.

I volunteer.

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My last tenant was so bad that I sold the house at a massive loss, due in part to the damage done by her, and quit renting all together. Life is too short. 

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2 minutes ago, LenP said:

My last tenant was so bad that I sold the house at a massive loss, due in part to the damage done by her, and quit renting all together. Life is too short. 

Life treats me well.  If your neighbor lives well, you might enjoy the neighborhood.

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

So don’t do it. 

That was a non sequitur.  

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28 minutes ago, LenP said:

My last tenant was so bad that I sold the house at a massive loss, due in part to the damage done by her, and quit renting all together. Life is too short. 

Sorry to hear it but the nightmare stories I have read about other states where eviction can take a really long time prove to me that most tenants are good. In those states, any tenant could take advantage and there would soon be no rental market at all. The fact that I'm reading these stories from landlords in those states tells me most are not like that.

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7 minutes ago, Excoded Tom said:

Sorry to hear it but the nightmare stories I have read about other states where eviction can take a really long time prove to me that most tenants are good. In those states, any tenant could take advantage and there would soon be no rental market at all. The fact that I'm reading these stories from landlords in those states tells me most are not like that.

It only takes one. A landlord with 10 houses can deal with it, 1 house not so much.

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6 minutes ago, Excoded Tom said:

Sorry to hear it but the nightmare stories I have read about other states where eviction can take a really long time prove to me that most tenants are good. In those states, any tenant could take advantage and there would soon be no rental market at all. The fact that I'm reading these stories from landlords in those states tells me most are not like that.

Most are, thankfully. I don’t know how anyone sticks with it after a bad tenant. 

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4 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

It only takes one. A landlord with 10 houses can deal with it, 1 house not so much.

There seems to be an assumption that all landlords are veritable young Mr. Farnsworths, the fourth generation trust fund babies. The trust fund babies own the notes on the houses, and they can’t wait to take it from the guy who busted his ass to buy an investment house and fights to make the payment every month. Neither of them owes a damn thing to a professional deadbeat. 
 

I tell my buddies in that position to look at the online court records for every potential tenant, to see whether they have a bunch of evictions. Every tenant I’ve ever had to dig out had a string of eviction cases that were easy to find, which don’t show up on a credit report. Look at court records before letting someone in. 

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2 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Look at court records before letting someone in. 

Can't be overstated.

And don't trust their "references" any further than you can throw 'em.

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13 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:
22 minutes ago, Excoded Tom said:

Sorry to hear it but the nightmare stories I have read about other states where eviction can take a really long time prove to me that most tenants are good. In those states, any tenant could take advantage and there would soon be no rental market at all. The fact that I'm reading these stories from landlords in those states tells me most are not like that.

It only takes one. A landlord with 10 houses can deal with it, 1 house not so much.

Yep

The small investor gets fucked over from both sides, in more than just real estate. However, your REIT shares will never call you at 2am to come over and unstop their toilet

 

1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

There seems to be an assumption that all landlords are veritable young Mr. Farnsworths, the fourth generation trust fund babies. The trust fund babies own the notes on the houses, and they can’t wait to take it from the guy who busted his ass to buy an investment house and fights to make the payment every month. Neither of them owes a damn thing to a professional deadbeat. 
 

I tell my buddies in that position to look at the online court records for every potential tenant, to see whether they have a bunch of evictions. Every tenant I’ve ever had to dig out had a string of eviction cases that were easy to find, which don’t show up on a credit report. Look at court records before letting someone in. 

That's a good point. In many places there are tenant blacklists too, although they are also illegal in some places.

It's surprising to me how many real estate rental agents will place bad tenants over and over. And yeah, you're not supposed to refuse to rent to that guy with the swastika tattoo on his forehead because of the swastika tattoo on his forehead, but you'd be an idiot to rent to him.

- DSK

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6 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yep

The small investor gets fucked over from both sides, in more than just real estate. However, your REIT shares will never call you at 2am to come over and unstop their toilet

 

That's a good point. In many places there are tenant blacklists too, although they are also illegal in some places.

It's surprising to me how many real estate rental agents will place bad tenants over and over. And yeah, you're not supposed to refuse to rent to that guy with the swastika tattoo on his forehead because of the swastika tattoo on his forehead, but you'd be an idiot to rent to him.

- DSK

One dodge, if you can  work it, is to be looking for roommates. You can discriminate in many ways legally when getting a roommate that you cannot as a landlord.

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My son owns a couple properties.  They are the best houses on the block.

Most of us rented before we owned.

I explained to my brother that a second house could double his wealth. 

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11 minutes ago, hasher said:

a second house could double his wealth. 

And his workload, expenses, etc.

The American dream...

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

There seems to be an assumption that all landlords are veritable young Mr. Farnsworths, the fourth generation trust fund babies. The trust fund babies own the notes on the houses, and they can’t wait to take it from the guy who busted his ass to buy an investment house and fights to make the payment every month. Neither of them owes a damn thing to a professional deadbeat. 
 

I tell my buddies in that position to look at the online court records for every potential tenant, to see whether they have a bunch of evictions. Every tenant I’ve ever had to dig out had a string of eviction cases that were easy to find, which don’t show up on a credit report. Look at court records before letting someone in. 

In my case, the tenant had no negative records. She had just left her husband and had two young kids. Husband was an abuser and she had a restraining order against him. Shortly after moving in, she found a new abuser and moved him into the house. He introduced her to meth, after which she lost her job, lost her kids, and finally was evicted after 4 months and 25k in damages to the house. All of this hit a little too close to home for me. I can only save so much of the world, and knowing I could never turn away a person in need, I decided the only way to protect myself was to not be in the business. Shelters have rules and don't have to deal with 4 months to evict someone who is breaking them. I sold the houses and donate to those places now. 

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3 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

So what would happen if you hired some muscle and just evicted them?

It doesn't work like that. No evictions in Colorado (nor any U.S. state that I know of) without a court order.

And the courts won't touch evictions while the CDC COVID moratorium is in effect ... at least until the end of June, likely extended after that, as it has been for over a year.

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4 hours ago, Excoded Tom said:

Have a little patience. The emergency related to the Iranian hostage crisis is still going on. Sometimes it takes a while for an emergency to subside. Any decade now!

Not my first rodeo.

The other rentals give me a lot of pleasure, they're all remnants from my family being in this state from back when it was still part of the Kansas Territory back in the 1800s. I enjoy fixing things, replacing things, working with the tenants, redoing things, it's a way of connecting with people alive and ghosts. One place floods back memories of my dad, one place floods them back of my grandparents, a great uncle whom I never me, another of when I was kid helping out my mom.

Overall, I find that working on houses is a good bit easier and less stressful than working on cars, and I enjoy working on cars. But working land is the best, you're lucky to have so much acreage out there in your swamp, Normy.

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I know many good landlords . .  sail with a number of them. 

But there are also landlords from hell - like the Kushner's and Trump's. 

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17 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

I know many good landlords . .  sail with a number of them. 

But there are also landlords from hell - like the Kushner's and Trump's. 

They're not landlords, they are slum lords.

Big difference.

One of the biggest problems in the US is the growth of the slumlord attitude among property owners, business owners... the idea that it's totally cool to gouge the most possible out of everything you control with zero reinvestment, zero regard for conditions, etc etc.

- DSK

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16 hours ago, mikewof said:

But working land is the best, you're lucky to have so much acreage out there in your swamp, Normy.

Thanks. Come on down some August and I'll make you happier than you can imagine!

 

16 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

One of the biggest problems in the US is the growth of the slumlord attitude among property owners, business owners... the idea that it's totally cool to gouge the most possible out of everything you control with zero reinvestment, zero regard for conditions, etc etc.

I have a long list of problems that seem bigger to me but what you're talking about does happen to an astonishing degree. I've seen evidence of it from tenants who are surprised that I clean a property before showing it, are surprised that I fix stuff when they call to say it's broken, and the most direct evidence when I've looked for properties to buy and found neglect that would cost tens of thousands to remedy to bring a property up to my (not really all that high) standards.

In the worst case, the tenants in one house were moving buckets around during each afternoon thunderstorm to catch all the water coming through the roof in various places. They seemed like good tenants and I felt sorry for them. The house had water damage everywhere and really needed gutting. I guessed 30-50k to fix it. All because the owner didn't buy a 5k roof.

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9 hours ago, Excoded Tom said:

Thanks. Come on down some August and I'll make you happier than you can imagine!

Working one's own land is a gentleman's pleasure, working someone else's land isn't even the pleasure of an ox.

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16 hours ago, mikewof said:
On 5/7/2021 at 4:03 AM, Excoded Tom said:

Thanks. Come on down some August and I'll make you happier than you can imagine!

Working one's own land is a gentleman's pleasure, working someone else's land isn't even the pleasure of an ox.

I must not be much of a gentleman because even I don't like it in August. Except for the swim in the pond part, but that's not working.

But getting back to the thread topic:

CDC Bullshitters Lose In Court For Fifth Time
 

Quote

 

A judge for the U.S. District Court of D.C. ruled today in a case brought by two realtor associations in Alabama and Georgia that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC) ban on landlords filing to evict non-paying tenants vastly exceeded the agency's powers.

...

"Though the Public Health Service Act grants the [Health] Secretary broad authority to make and enforce regulations necessary to prevent the spread of disease, his authority is not limitless," she said, writing that that broad authority does not "encompass the nationwide eviction moratorium set forth in the CDC Order."

Friedrich's ruling marks the fifth time that a federal court has ruled against the CDC's eviction ban. Two federal courts have upheld the policy.

...

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

Real estate agents ask court to block eviction moratorium
 

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A group of Alabama real estate agents asked the Supreme Court on Thursday to block a federal moratorium on evictions that was imposed because of the COVID-19 pandemic. In May, a federal district judge agreed with the group that the Centers for Disease Control does not have the power to impose the policy, but she put her ruling on hold to give the government time to appeal. The Alabama Association of Realtors urged the Supreme Court to intervene on an emergency basis and lift that stay order, telling the justices that “Congress never gave the CDC the staggering amount of power it now claims.”

...

The real estate agents’ request went to Chief Justice John Roberts, who handles emergency requests from the District of Columbia. Roberts can act on the application himself, but he is more likely to refer it to the full court.

The case is Alabama Association of Realtors v. Department of Health and Human Services.

(Update, Friday, June 4, at 4:18 p.m.): On Friday, the chief justice called for a response from the Department of Health and Human Services. It is due next Thursday, June 10, by 5 p.m.

 

I guess tsunami season is coming. Or maybe not. Temporary emergency powers have a way of hanging around.

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5 hours ago, Excoded Tom said:

Real estate agents ask court to block eviction moratorium
 

I guess tsunami season is coming. Or maybe not. Temporary emergency powers have a way of hanging around.

The WWII rent-control guidelines still exist for a few buildings and tenants in NYC and S.F., right?

I wouldn't be surprised if they just keep these hanging around past the planned expiration of June 30, and just let the landlords evict when the leases run out ... just to avoid clogging up the courts.

My rental is a mess; tenant who we can't evict, won't pay a dime of rent, they finally threatened and assaulted the neighbor and downstairs tenant, still can't get them out. They're protected by the unbreakable wall of the COVID rules, even though they both still have good jobs and make plenty of cash.

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