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I came across this video this morning posting a joke from it and the link in the Joke thread, it's long and imo well worth watching in light of what outrage is manufactured today with Cancel Culture - specifically the "outrage" over the Dr. Seuss books. They were removed by those who owned them so is not censorship but feel free to explain why I am wrong. Video is 2002 and deals with the 3 seasons of the Smothers Brothers show and the battles with CBS and the outrage by good American patriots whose sensitivities were regularly offended.

Watch at your own peril. Perks include insights into the talents discovered particularly among the writers.  Let the games being. Or not. 

 

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Cancel culture is supposed to be used on nigra quarterbacks who demand their rights, not Amuricans.  

No, you haven't offered anything, and your effort to deflect on me is about to blow up in your face. I went back and read your post (No post#s anymore, but it was at 4:08pm yesterday) and there i

My landlords got redlined out of the first house they wanted to buy.  1958.  Took 'em 'till '91 to be able to buy in a better neighbourhood. In time for the grandkids, if not the kids. They're mi

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Meanwhile the Zionists of the Reich (note: I'm not saying ALL Zionists) 

keep busy cancelling anyone in the academy who supports Palestinian rights. 

Juan Cole, and now Cornel West. 

(Luckily for me, I was too much of a small fry for them to bother with.) 

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Thanks D'!

 That was great! I especially liked the bit, early on where the correlation between the amount of clothes one wears, and one's station in politics was explained.

(paraphrasing) Dick: "So... The people wearing less clothes are regular people".

Tommy: "Yes, they are the 'less ons'"

Dick: "So who's running the country?"

Tommy: " The more ons" (wink)

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

Can Mark Twain be far behind.

Does Samuel Clemens have a publisher that will stop printing some of his books?

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:
1 hour ago, Dog said:

Can Mark Twain be far behind.

Does Samuel Clemens have a publisher that will stop printing some of his books?

It's too bad he's dead, I would have liked to see him punt Doggie in the nads.

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15 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Those books are subversive as hell. Burn them!

- DSK

No! Please don't! It'll burn my house down -- 'cause they're all on my bookshelf.

Along with a plethora of other subversive tomes.

And don't even START on my record collection!

(Okay, I don't think I have The Handmaid's Tale)

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18 minutes ago, Danceswithoctopus said:

No! Please don't! It'll burn my house down -- 'cause they're all on my bookshelf.

Along with a plethora of other subversive tomes.

And don't even START on my record collection!

(Okay, I don't think I have The Handmaid's Tale)

There's still time.

We have a big stash of kids books including Dr Seuss, but unfortunately we don't have any of the newly banned ones that are suddenly worth tens of thousands of dollars. Funny thing, I've read all those (that must be an abridged 'Origin Of Species') plus a bunch of others that have condemned as subversive. Huck Finn was considered racist and subversive at one point

- DSK

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(They're not really "banned", just not being sold.) But, yeah, I have a bunch of those as well. And I really liked Mulberry Street as a kid. I have very fond memories of sitting on my grandfather's lap as we read it together. Yertle the Turtle was another one.

I recently gave Huck Finn to my grandson (10 yrs--along with Treasure Island). I sure hope it doesn't turn him into a white trash Nazi.

Wait until they get around to Shel Silverstein. (Of I Got Stoned and I Missed It, recorded by Dr. Hook et. al., fame.) He has a great one, Fuck 'Em.

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“The main problem in any democracy is that crowdpleasers are generally brainless swine who can go out on a stage and whup their supporters into an orgiastic frenzy – then go back to the office and sell every one of the poor bastards down the tube for a nickel apiece.”- HST

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1 hour ago, roundthebuoys said:

You can have my Ken Kesey signed Cuckoo's Nest when you pry it from my cold dead hands.  Same with my 1st edition Hunter S. Thompson books and The Power of One.

My wife and I read 'The Power Of One' last summer. Great book.

- DSK

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As I understand it, the folks who look after the Suess estate and publish the books decided to get out ahead of the issue of subtle but systemic racism, and not publish the ones that had some unfortunate illustrations and dialog.

Good on them.  If they thought the books were a problem, they probably were. 

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9 hours ago, Dog said:

Can Mark Twain be far behind.

Cancel culture in 1904 or so was so powerful that Clemons 

was leaned on bigly to not publish the "War Prayer". 

He caved, but it did finally see the light in 1923 after his death. 

One of my Music Dept colleagues wrote a musical score to accompany it back in 2003. 

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12 hours ago, Raz'r said:
12 hours ago, Dog said:

Can Mark Twain be far behind.

Does Samuel Clemens have a publisher that will stop printing some of his books?

More apropos - does Clemens have a foundation responsible for the management of his intellectual property and legacy which may decline to sell it to publishers anymore?

This is Geisel's legacy saying, in effect, "We don't think Ted would approve this message anymore. So we're not letting it out under his brand."

Anyone calling this "cancel culture" is, for lack of a better word, a moron.

And probably a racist to boot.

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Just in case it isn't clear where I stand on this: censorship is real, always has been and likely always will be. Not that hard to see who tries to mute those they don't agree with.  "Cancel Culture" or whatever name is used is just made up outrage at

1. Things that Liberals Do

2. Change they don't like

3. Elimination of racism, misogyny and a sordid variations (see what I just did there?)

With that in mind - information of any kind requires some oversight in cases of child pornography as an example. Age appropriateness, and probably some other things not going to get into that would require discussions and decisions. Repression is bad, so is Anarchy (which is why there is an easy to use Ignore feature for the Ignoreamuses and posters are banned for bad behavior.   The End as I don't want this to delve into which law or ruling in 1829 meant whatever.

Thanks for reading.

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2 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Just in case it isn't clear where I stand on this: censorship is real, always has been and likely always will be. Not that hard to see who tries to mute those they don't agree with.  "Cancel Culture" or whatever name is used is just made up outrage at

1. Things that Liberals Do

2. Change they don't like

3. Elimination of racism, misogyny and a sordid variations (see what I just did there?)

With that in mind - information of any kind requires some oversight in cases of child pornography as an example. Age appropriateness, and probably some other things not going to get into that would require discussions and decisions. Repression is bad, so is Anarchy (which is why there is an easy to use Ignore feature for the Ignoreamuses and posters are banned for bad behavior.   The End as I don't want this to delve into which law or ruling in 1829 meant whatever.

Thanks for reading.

I've reported this post to the moderators as inappropriate. 

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When they come for my copy of "Green Eggs and Ham" do they knock, or just break down the door?

I'll want to have snacks for them, and put on something nice.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mike G said:

When they come for my copy of "Green Eggs and Ham" do they knock, or just break down the door?

I'll want to have snacks for them, and put on something nice.

 

Name all your books as Bushmaster, Remington, Browning, Glock, Armalite, Dogballs etc and you won't be bothered, do try to be creative like

Green Light and Down Range

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Jim Wright summed it up nicely - 

"Cancel Culture" isn't a real thing
 
Or, rather it IS, but it's only a new label for something that's always been part of human society.
 
What republicans see as some nefarious organized mass conspiracy is nothing more than society's public rejection of unsavory actions and ideology.
 
It is LITERALLY the very visible hand of their own adored free market at work.
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4 minutes ago, d'ranger said:
9 minutes ago, Mike G said:

When they come for my copy of "Green Eggs and Ham" do they knock, or just break down the door?

I'll want to have snacks for them, and put on something nice.

 

Name all your books as Bushmaster, Remington, Browning, Glock, Armalite, Dogballs etc and you won't be bothered, do try to be creative like

Green Light and Down Range

You can fancy them up with camouflage covers.

rog-main-3.jpg?quality=80

_6izbmq8MLfzwVC80RFNBmKUd9oBK-etvBcoSWFx

paperback-paradise-6.jpg?1384968217

socialbooks1ghbbvccddewertyh.jpg

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On 3/3/2021 at 11:55 PM, Rain Man said:

As I understand it, the folks who look after the Suess estate and publish the books decided to get out ahead of the issue of subtle but systemic racism, and not publish the ones that had some unfortunate illustrations and dialog.

Good on them.  If they thought the books were a problem, they probably were. 

Gonna have to completely disagree with you. Disney has kept their classic moves, with a disclaimer in front of them.  Why would it have been so much trouble to do the same thing with the Seuss books in question? The Germans have made it a habit of trying to make everything Nazi "disappear".  The isn't educational, and it isn't right.  It's trying to pretend it didn't happen.  Future generations in Germany will not have the reminders of what NOT to do.

Of course, that doesn't always work.  Our country has been going down the same road the Germans went down.  And we KNOW the history behind it.  Guess that makes us twice as stupid.

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“Dr. Seuss books are NINE of the top 10 best-selling titles Amazon: Fans send sales soaring after six titles were 'canceled' for 'racist and insensitive imagery' “

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9326167/Dr-Seuss-books-NINE-10-best-selling-titles-Amazon.html

The market is speaking? Or are all the people racists who are just coming out?

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15 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

The Germans have made it a habit of trying to make everything Nazi "disappear". 

Disagree - The Germans do a pretty good job of teaching their youth about the evils of Nazism. 

But they don't do it the way we would, that is for sure. 

A few years back they decided to re-legalize selling and reading Mein Kampf  . . 

interesting results    https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/03/sales-of-hitlers-mein-kampf-skyrocketing-in-germany-but-its-not-why-you-think/

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32 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Gonna have to completely disagree with you. Disney has kept their classic moves, with a disclaimer in front of them.  Why would it have been so much trouble to do the same thing with the Seuss books in question? The Germans have made it a habit of trying to make everything Nazi "disappear".  The isn't educational, and it isn't right.  It's trying to pretend it didn't happen.  Future generations in Germany will not have the reminders of what NOT to do.

Of course, that doesn't always work.  Our country has been going down the same road the Germans went down.  And we KNOW the history behind it.  Guess that makes us twice as stupid.

You may be right - there is a theory floating around that they did it to boost sales and immortalize some of the lesser known books.  

I still think they were between a rock and a hard place.  Get out in front or face some very bad press when people noticed the content.  Or stop publishing the books and face slightly less outrage over the cancel culture.  I think they made the right decision.  

Not that I like it when I see Republican heads explode or anything.

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22 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

And the Reich thinks it is just fine to cancel . . 

minority votes 

And Minority voices.

image.jpeg.4c7c9fc5eb360111274446aa9083a9c5.jpeg

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On 3/3/2021 at 4:47 PM, roundthebuoys said:

“The main problem in any democracy is that crowdpleasers are generally brainless swine who can go out on a stage and whup their supporters into an orgiastic frenzy – then go back to the office and sell every one of the poor bastards down the tube for a nickel apiece.”- HST

Since we're doing profound quotes, I always thought this summed us up pretty perfectly:

 

Quote

 

“The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a ‘warm body’ democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens… which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it… which for the majority translates as ‘Bread and Circuses.’

‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader—the barbarians enter Rome.”


 Robert A. Heinlein

 

 

I don't think even RAH ever imagined the Bread and Circuses clown show we have going on now.  And I think it's for precisely the fear of the above happening that the Founding Fathers attempted to put in a layer of insulation & security between the stoopid masses and the reins of gov't by ensuring we have a representative democracy/republic.  And even that has become corrupted because the supposed adult politicians who were supposed to use their better judgement to counter the fickle masses have themselves become corrupted once they realized that manipulating the idiot$ would bring in even more per$sonal power for them.  

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8 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Since we're doing profound quotes, I always thought this summed us up pretty perfectly:

 

 

I don't think even RAH ever imagined the Bread and Circuses clown show we have going on now.  And I think it's for precisely the fear of the above happening that the Founding Fathers attempted to put in a layer of insulation & security between the stoopid masses and the reins of gov't by ensuring we have a representative democracy/republic.  And even that has become corrupted because the supposed adult politicians who were supposed to use their better judgement to counter the fickle masses have themselves become corrupted once they realized that manipulating the idiot$ would bring in even more per$sonal power for them.  

Doesn't that take you back.... "bread and circuses" was the anti-democracy slogan for old-timey Republicans. My father, for example, used to use that phrase, back when he tried to convince me to vote for Bob Dole (I did give it pretty serious consideration).

But the problem is actually the opposite. We have huge numbers of voters who are "brand name" voters and/or single-issue voters who are utterly convinced that The Other Party is going to destroy the world. And of course they would never never EVER even THINK of failing to vote for the guys who hate-hate-HATE that goddam other party!

The result is a government headed by cynical selfish men... and a few women... who are completely unconcerned with the well-being of their voters or of the country itself. Because they know that no matter how bad they fuck up, they will be reelected.

- DSK

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27 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

But the problem is actually the opposite. We have huge numbers of voters who are "brand name" voters and/or single-issue voters who are utterly convinced that The Other Party is going to destroy the world. And of course they would never never EVER even THINK of failing to vote for the guys who hate-hate-HATE that goddam other party!

The result is a government headed by cynical selfish men... and a few women... who are completely unconcerned with the well-being of their voters or of the country itself. Because they know that no matter how bad they fuck up, they will be reelected.

- DSK

Yep, totally agree with you.  And I hope you do realize you are describing a very bipartisan phenomenon, right?  Because there's a yuge number of those brand name/single issue voters on both sides.  In fact I would even dare say there are far less "non-brand name and/or non-single issue" voters than the opposite.  If we took the party letter off of every ballot and just had names against offices.... I'm betting at least 70% of the voters in the entire US would have no clue who to vote for and would throw their hands up and walk out of the booth.  

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22 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

Yep, totally agree with you.  And I hope you do realize you are describing a very bipartisan phenomenon, right?  Because there's a yuge number of those brand name/single issue voters on both sides.  In fact I would even dare say there are far less "non-brand name and/or non-single issue" voters than the opposite.  If we took the party letter off of every ballot and just had names against offices.... I'm betting at least 70% of the voters in the entire US would have no clue who to vote for and would throw their hands up and walk out of the booth.  

I think it's present in both parties but it is a MUCH bigger problem on the Republican side. They openly talk about their "brand" and brag about their successful marketing. They enforce and WANT a monolithic mind-set. They have an entire industry devoted to promoting hatred of That Other Party.

In comparison, Democrats are almost as united in not wanting Trump as Republicans are in not wanting Democrats. But if, for example, you looked at recent polls that were split between the parties, Democrats were largely concerned about real issues and policies, Republicans were concerned about partisan losses and made-up paranoid bullshit.

Other than the 1-issue voters (gunz, abortionz), Republicans are united by fear of EVIL SOCIALISM and BUILD THA WALL and making pizza out of babies and lizard people. And of course now that we have a Democrat President, they are angry about the deficit but of course are completely unwilling to actually do anything about it like cut military spending or raise taxes.

It's a lot easier to smear shit on things and burn it down than it is to actually build something... or even to keep something running smoothly. Hence the Trumpublicans huge success.

- DSK

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Both sides??? 
 

Any rational American can see that democRATS are cannibal pedophile child sex trafficking Satan worshipers who hate Amurica.  How could any right-thinking person see democRATS as their countryman?

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6 hours ago, Rain Man said:

You may be right - there is a theory floating around that they did it to boost sales and immortalize some of the lesser known books.  

I still think they were between a rock and a hard place.  Get out in front or face some very bad press when people noticed the content.  Or stop publishing the books and face slightly less outrage over the cancel culture.  I think they made the right decision.  

Not that I like it when I see Republican heads explode or anything.

I don't think that anyone would notice racism in "And to think it happened on Mulberry street". It's a kid's book, not a lesson in ethics.

 "Little black Sambo" never struck me as racist, even after people said it was. It was just a kid's book.

 Kid's don't see race. They see fun. And getting kids to read is a good thing. I never really noticed that my friend Stuart was different from me in any way, until one day, when we were riding grocery carts down the hill on Winchester Ave., and he crashed and got a good cut. When his mother washed his arm off and put on a Band-aid, I mentioned that it wasn't blending in with his skin... Mom said "They don't make Band-aids in our color".....

I watched the beginning of "Gone with the Wind" last night (For about the 20th time)..... The lead in was seriously racist, as was the whole movie.

“There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called the Old South. Here in this pretty world, Gallantry took its last bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their Ladies Fair, of Master and of Slave. Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a Civilization gone with the wind...”


Ben Hecht

 

This is what Trumpers want to make America. To take us back to the land of cotton, where the days of old are not forgotten....

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10 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:
 

 

This is what Trumpers want to make America. To take us back to the land of cotton, where the days of old are not forgotten....

Not far enough. About 1650 would suit them.

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Doesn't that take you back..

I read a whole lot of Heinlein as a teen and pre-teen . . . 

until I figured out he was a militaristic libertarian nut job. 

He likely did more to corrupt Merrikan Yoot than even the evil Ayn Rand. 

(How one can logically combine militarism and libertarianism is still beyond my feeble grasp.) 

But he could write  . .  good essay here about Starship Troopers 

https://medium.com/fan-fare/starship-troopers-from-militaristic-fable-to-anti-fascist-fantasy-bdb581d27b99

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On 3/4/2021 at 4:30 AM, B.J. Porter said:

More apropos - does Clemens have a foundation responsible for the management of his intellectual property and legacy which may decline to sell it to publishers anymore?

This is Geisel's legacy saying, in effect, "We don't think Ted would approve this message anymore. So we're not letting it out under his brand."

Anyone calling this "cancel culture" is, for lack of a better word, a moron.

And probably a racist to boot.

Do chinamen eat with sticks?

 

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5 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Do chinamen eat with sticks?

 

Just pointing out your asshole-ness? Really wasn’t needed. We already know.

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Well I am offended.

I am offended that right wingers are criticizing removal of perpetuating icons as removing history.

Just take 3 minutes to watch a part of this clip (relevant part is up to 29.00). The clip has Burgess Meredith talking about how How Black Soldiers were basically treated the same by Brits as white soldiers would expect, which is very different to how Americans acted back at home. 

Is this really what the GOP wants to revert to? 

Those most pushing the outrage over cancel culture also use the same arguments for saying religion is under attack.

Religion is not under attack, its just the extreme privilege of white evangelical "you will do what i tell you to do" that is being attacked. If you want a Christian nativity scene at the public town hall, then you must also allow spaces for  Buddhist, Muslim, Shinto, Satanist, Spaghetti Monster displays as well. Or simply socialize within your own belief group and provide your own private space that likeminded people can visit.

So back to 'Cancel Culture'. If I were black, should I expect my life will continue to suffer from: Statues that celebrate the state's support of the confederacy, which was largely about continued slavery? Street names celebrating slavery? Widespread use and sales of material that denigrate black or brown or yellow skin people?

So many people I deal with are either outwardly racist, or simply play along with winks and nods. I am truly sickened by this. It is not just white vs everyone else, it is from all sides.

Maybe a near majority of the US is simply unable to comprehend that a person is a person regardless of color, and perpetuating put downs is not going to deliver nirvana - the demographics are changing, and it will soon be a reversal of fortune. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, dfw_sailor said:

Religion is not under attack, its just the extreme privilege of white evangelical "you will do what i tell you to do" that is being attacked. If you want a Christian nativity scene at the public town hall, then you must also allow spaces for  Buddhist, Muslim, Shinto, Satanist, Spaghetti Monster displays as well. Or simply socialize within your own belief group and provide your own private space that likeminded people can visit.

That's Flying Spaghetti Monster to you, pal. Some respect, please. Otherwise you make it sound silly.

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The book burners of the US Reich have been cancelling works of art since forever . . 

Just ask your local librarian  . . 

(The Reich are masters of projection though) 

This list is just a start . . 

Banned & Challenged Classics
  • The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald.
  • The Catcher in the Rye, by JD Salinger.
  • The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck.
  • To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee.
  • The Color Purple, by Alice Walker.
  • Ulysses, by James Joyce.
  • Beloved, by Toni Morrison.
  • The Lord of the Flies, by William Golding.
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3 hours ago, dfw_sailor said:

Maybe a near majority of the US is simply unable to comprehend that a person is a person regardless of color,

That's because you're Australian, you can believe stuff like that. I do as well. We grew up with friends and neighbours from a hell of a lot of places around the planet and lots of variety in skin colour.

Yet even the self-proclaimed lefties in the USA decry this as impossible and racist.

FKT

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On 3/3/2021 at 9:52 AM, Sol Rosenberg said:

Cancel culture is supposed to be used on nigra quarterbacks who demand their rights, not Amuricans.  

And RInos. 

 

21 hours ago, Burning Man said:

Since we're doing profound quotes, I always thought this summed us up pretty perfectly:

 

 

I don't think even RAH ever imagined the Bread and Circuses clown show we have going on now.  And I think it's for precisely the fear of the above happening that the Founding Fathers attempted to put in a layer of insulation & security between the stoopid masses and the reins of gov't by ensuring we have a representative democracy/republic.  And even that has become corrupted because the supposed adult politicians who were supposed to use their better judgement to counter the fickle masses have themselves become corrupted once they realized that manipulating the idiot$ would bring in even more per$sonal power for them.  

The problem is real, but Heinland doesn't know the Roman empire from a hole in the ground. It wasn't the bread and circuses that bankrupted the state, it was loss of revenue and coinage. They funded the entire thing with conquest and pillage, but ran out of people worth pillaging within reach. Meanwhile their rich people sent their gold out of the country to buy luxuries. Eventually they couldn't feed the masses or even fund a decent circus. Paying for Legions was right out of the question. 

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27 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That's because you're Australian, you can believe stuff like that. I do as well. We grew up with friends and neighbours from a hell of a lot of places around the planet and lots of variety in skin colour.

Yet even the self-proclaimed lefties in the USA decry this as impossible and racist.

FKT

I think it's racist that Aussies don't even put the skin color on the birth certificate of newborns.  Without skin color, how do you determine who is deserving of special treatment, affirmative action and unique designations such as "Person of Color"?  How does your society even function with this sort of inequity and lack of social awareness???

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Just now, Burning Man said:

I think it's racist that Aussies don't even put the skin color on the birth certificate of newborns.  Without skin color, how do you determine who is deserving of special treatment, affirmative action and unique designations such as "Person of Color"?  How does your society even function with this sort of inequity and lack of social awareness???

Somehow, we manage to struggle by.

We also seem to be able to run a medical system providing decent service without the absolutely indispensable 'help' of insurance companies and a predominance of privately run hospitals.

FKT

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Just now, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Somehow, we manage to struggle by.

We also seem to be able to run a medical system providing decent service without the absolutely indispensable 'help' of insurance companies and a predominance of privately run hospitals.

FKT

But you guys don't even have a "Parliamentary Black Caucus".  How can you even govern the country without those special cliques?  

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2 minutes ago, Burning Man said:

But you guys don't even have a "Parliamentary Black Caucus".  How can you even govern the country without those special cliques?  

I could tell you, but Meli would want me shot if I did, so.... shrug.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Burning Man said:

But you guys don't even have a "Parliamentary Black Caucus".  How can you even govern the country without those special cliques?  

My theory about the Aus / US interest groups difference is everyone is important in Australia, while only the self interested / noisy are important in the US.

I put it down to compulsory voting in Aus. I used to hate it. You dont have to actually submit a valid vote, but you do either have to turn up on the day, or absentee prior, if not you get a smallish fine. Having been in the US for 10 years full time now, I can see the merits of compulsory voting.

So everyone votes, and pity the politician that does not decently represent all of his / her constituents. This also means the media can go at the pollies hard - BS is not tolerated. 

I'm not saying aus is perfect, there are many racists and blowhards in Aus too. Of course there is a left and fight, and the government of the day will create policy that the other side hates / dislikes, but not to the level of the stupid partisanship that occurs all the time in the US.

 

just my simplistic $0.02

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I don't know much about Oz, but the smug superiority I see here on PA is pretty off-putting . . 

While I totally agree that racism in the US is toxic and deadly on many levels, 

the idea that no such thing exists in OZ strains credulity . .  

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jun/10/essential-poll-most-australians-believe-there-is-institutional-racism-in-the-us-but-not-australia

There have been at least 437 deaths recorded since the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody ended in 1991. There have been at least five deaths since Guardian Australia updated its Deaths Inside project in August 2019, two of which have resulted in murder charges being laid.

The economist and Labor parliamentarian Andrew Leigh also published research last year that indicates Indigenous Australians are now more likely to be in prison than African Americans. 

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9 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yet even the self-proclaimed lefties in the USA decry this as impossible and racist.

Major Bull-Pucky 

Not only US lefties but lots of other USAeans aspire to a society of racial equality and justice. 

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1 minute ago, Olsonist said:

I highly doubt you've read much if any Twain.

I've read enough to understand that the The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is a profoundly anti-racist.

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5 minutes ago, Dog said:

I've read enough to understand that the The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is a profoundly anti-racist.

Just not the actual book.

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2 hours ago, Olsonist said:

It's on his Kindle, and he'll read it right after the Mueller Report jerking off to Sean Hannity.

Modified. 

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3 hours ago, Dog said:

I've read enough to understand that the The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is a profoundly anti-racist.

So you never read that book ??  Thought not . . 

But nonetheless you Thought Police of the Reich has been banning books for many decades - see post above. 

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9 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

So you never read that book ??  Thought not . . 

But nonetheless you Thought Police of the Reich has been banning books for many decades - see post above. 

That’s what the Reich doesn’t understand:

libraries and states banning books? Censorship

private companies choosing not to sell a title or 10? Not censorship

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20 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Somehow, we manage to struggle by.

We also seem to be able to run a medical system providing decent service without the absolutely indispensable 'help' of insurance companies and a predominance of privately run hospitals.

FKT

 Would your abos agree Australia has always been "woke"?  

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21 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That's because you're Australian, you can believe stuff like that. I do as well. We grew up with friends and neighbours from a hell of a lot of places around the planet and lots of variety in skin colour.

Yet even the self-proclaimed lefties in the USA decry this as impossible and racist.

FKT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born#Metropolitan_and_Urban_regions_with_largest_foreign_born_populations

20 hours ago, Burning Man said:

But you guys don't even have a "Parliamentary Black Caucus".  How can you even govern the country without those special cliques?  

Probably the same way they get by without an Air Force Caucus, an Anti-Socialism Caucus, an Appalachian National Scenic Trail Caucus, an Auto Care Caucus, or any of the rest?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucuses_of_the_United_States_Congress

 

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21 hours ago, Burning Man said:

But you guys don't even have a "Parliamentary Black Caucus".  How can you even govern the country without those special cliques?  

I know you are honestly wondering about American black culture...what it is and how the heck it came about... so here's a must-read for ya. This is really only applicable to southern black culture, but that culture is the root of most all the rest. 

 https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/my-mother-found-dr-seuss-book/618225/?utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_term=2021-03-06T19%3A04%3A56&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_medium=social

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7 minutes ago, Mark K said:

I know you are honestly wondering about American black culture.

@Burning Man  has a real blind spot in that respect. 

I have offered to send him (for free) a book that might straighten him out, but he has no interest. 

I'm reading another good one now . .   Dan Brooks The Accident of Color 

about the racial history of New Orleans and Charleston, SC. 

I've decided that the label Jim Crow for the 1865-1970 era of white supremacy does not do it justice . . 

The Era of White Terror is more appropriate. 

The US Reich likes to argue that racial oppression in the US ended with the surrender at Appomattox - 

but that is another of their Big Lies. 

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3 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

@Burning Man  has a real blind spot in that respect. 

I have offered to send him (for free) a book that might straighten him out, but he has no interest. 

I'm reading another good one now . .   Dan Brooks The Accident of Color 

about the racial history of New Orleans and Charleston, SC. 

I've decided that the label Jim Crow for the 1865-1970 era of white supremacy does not do it justice . . 

The Era of White Terror is more appropriate. 

The US Reich likes to argue that racial oppression in the US ended with the surrender at Appomattox - 

but that is another of their Big Lies. 

This article is much more granular. I'm convinced there is no way to grok it other than living in it for awhile. Warts and all, as they say. 

Think of Bill ORieilly's shock at Sylvia's. For white people born and raised in white communities all they know is what the press talks about. There is no shame in this, we all only know only what we have been informed, and the press never covers a truck that isn't on fire in some way.  In the military one meets a lot of white people like that, but they learn about blacks from the blacks in the service, wherein everybody's root culture is deliberately minimized if not squashed out of existence.  Not tough to do with young people. Society in general? Not so much.    

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1 minute ago, Mark K said:

There is no shame in this, we all only know only what we have been informed, and the press never covers a truck that isn't on fire in some way. 

In my experience in 50 countries, wherever two or more ethnic groups co-exist there will be ethnic tension. 

Mature societies recognize this and deal with it; in other societies demagogues figure out that they can attain power by making that tension worse - 

such as the modern GOP Reich. 

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1 minute ago, AJ Oliver said:

In my experience in 50 countries, wherever two or more ethnic groups co-exist there will be ethnic tension. 

Mature societies recognize this and deal with it; in other societies demagogues figure out that they can attain power by making that tension worse - 

such as the modern GOP Reich. 

Societies change only very very slowly and people cling to their culture by fighting for it to the death...UNLESS they are reduced to individuals and tossed together like a salad. Then they form a new culture almost immediately. Singapore at it's founding was smart enough to realize this and immediately and forcibly stopped the formation of ghettos. Each apartment building had a quota of each segment of their immigrant population and they were careful to mix them up even within an apartment building. All the Chinese on one floor, Indos on another? Nosireebob!  

 This is what happens in the service, pretty much. After they got serious about it anyway...after the Kitty Hawk, pretty much.  

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Oh my. This cancel culture and runaway decency has to stop! These DemocRATS are going crazy with this Cancel Culture. 
 

What’s that? Coca Cola said whut? Less white?

Holy shit, whut is this wold coming to?

BOYCOTT COCA COLA!!  

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1 hour ago, frenchie said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_born#Metropolitan_and_Urban_regions_with_largest_foreign_born_populations

Probably the same way they get by without an Air Force Caucus, an Anti-Socialism Caucus, an Appalachian National Scenic Trail Caucus, an Auto Care Caucus, or any of the rest?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucuses_of_the_United_States_Congress

 

Its not so much the size, which your link illustrates, as the percentage, which it does not. 

e.g. top spot NY 5.7 million born overseas, 23 mil, = 25%

LA, 4.4mil out of 14 mil = 31%

Greater Toronto 2.9 mil out of 6.4 mil = 45%

Sydney 2.1 out of 5.3 = 40%

Melbourne, 1.8 out of 5 = 36%

 

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1 hour ago, Mark K said:

Societies change only very very slowly and people cling to their culture by fighting for it to the death...UNLESS they are reduced to individuals and tossed together like a salad. Then they form a new culture almost immediately. Singapore at it's founding was smart enough to realize this and immediately and forcibly stopped the formation of ghettos. Each apartment building had a quota of each segment of their immigrant population and they were careful to mix them up even within an apartment building. All the Chinese on one floor, Indos on another? Nosireebob!  

 This is what happens in the service, pretty much. After they got serious about it anyway...after the Kitty Hawk, pretty much.  

I really dont know why Melbourne and Sydney are so different. A large percentage of immigrants to Australia comes in cultural and ethnic waves, so in Sydney there has been a grouping of cultures in suburbs. A bit more friction in Sydney (Cronulla 2005 riot although it was whipped up a lot by a right wing radio 'personality' Alan Jones).

Melbourne on the other hand seems to have a far more spread within and across suburbs. Which is great for food and cooking.

(Me, was 45 yrs in Mebourne, about 10 commuting to Sydney).

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2 hours ago, Mark K said:

In the military one meets a lot of white people like that, but they learn about blacks from the blacks in the service, wherein everybody's root culture is deliberately minimized if not squashed out of existence.  Not tough to do with young people. Society in general? Not so much.    

While not perfect, squashing one's root culture (or at least minimizing it in favor of promoting teamwork and cooperation regardless of race, culture or creed) seems to work really well in the military.  And given that it's not tough to do in young people as you say, it's a shame that we don't at least try.  Instead we do exactly the opposite...... we highlight, promote and elevate racial and cultural animuses and drive wedges in our society -  rather than try to show our young'uns that they are more alike than they're different.  Rather than promoting acceptance, cooperation and a desire to build a peaceful and just society - we are teaching them to hate and self-segregate.  And then that becomes a self-licking ice cream cone of a spiral into darkness.  Yes, it's unlikely we'll change the greater society of adult avowed racists and haters - but if we can get the youts to look past the past injustices that no one can undo anyway and realize that skin color doesn't matter - then when they eventually inherit and run said society, we might see lasting change towards peace and equality.  Just saying.

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2 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

In my experience in 50 countries, wherever two or more ethnic groups co-exist there will be ethnic tension. 

Mature societies recognize this and deal with it; in other societies demagogues figure out that they can attain power by making that tension worse - 

such as the modern GOP Reich, and BLM, and the democratic party, and the Nation of Islam, and the proud boyz and antifa and....... 

FTFY

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2 hours ago, Mark K said:

Societies change only very very slowly and people cling to their culture by fighting for it to the death...UNLESS they are reduced to individuals and tossed together like a salad. Then they form a new culture almost immediately. Singapore at it's founding was smart enough to realize this and immediately and forcibly stopped the formation of ghettos. Each apartment building had a quota of each segment of their immigrant population and they were careful to mix them up even within an apartment building. All the Chinese on one floor, Indos on another? Nosireebob!  

 This is what happens in the service, pretty much. After they got serious about it anyway...after the Kitty Hawk, pretty much.  

And yet this is exactly what I've been preaching for years here for wanting a colorblind society and to stop making such big fucking deals about skin color, ethnicity, gender, religion, etc.  And for which I am regularly derided by the left(er) leaning PA denizens here.  I think the misguided quest for diversity is part of what is ripping our society apart.  And maybe that's not the correct way to say it.  I have no issue with trying to achieve more diversity within an organization, school, group, society, whatever - but then I would ruthlessly make sure once they are together - those differences are minimized or eliminated and instead promote what they have in common.  

If I were Emperor for a day - I would remove ALL forms of discriminators on forms, ID, birth certificates, etc.  I would make it almost illegal to refer to someone by their race or skin color UNLESS it was for a legitimate medical purpose where on the rare occasion the genetics does come into play.  

It's time we got "Kitty Hawk" serious about it.  

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6 minutes ago, dfw_sailor said:

The Australian version of Patriotism. USA could do with a bit of it.   

 

You'll get shot for posting that. And not by the right wingers, either. In fact you'll get called a racist for showing something like that because it's clearly impossible and just propaganda.

The entire US political body is toxic with racism so deeply embedded in everything they do that they can't see it themselves. I find it fascinating just how deeply Orwell's double-think has permeated the Left. The far Right, OTOH, is a lot easier. They're just plain unabashed racist fuckwits.

FKT

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