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Oil!. Is the future of world energy


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Ingredients

  • 2 to 3 pounds pork belly

  • 1/2 cup brown sugar

  • 3 tablespoons kosher salt (or other coarse, non-iodized salt)

  • 1 1/4 teaspoons ground black pepper

  • 1/2 teaspoon curing salt

Steps to Make It

 

While there are multiple steps to this recipe, we've broken this bacon preparation process down into workable categories to help you better plan for curing and cooking.

 

Cure the Bacon

  1. Gather the ingredients.

    Ingredients for making bacon
     
  2. Carefully wash the pork belly and pat dry with paper towels.

    Patting the pork belly dry with a paper towel
     
  3. In a small bowl, combine the brown sugar, salt, pepper, and optional curing salt. Mix well.

    A bowl of seasonings for the pork belly
     
  4. Rub the seasoning mixture onto all sides of the pork belly using very clean hands. Spend a couple of minutes massaging the curing mixture into the meat.

    Seasoning mixture is rubbed into the pork belly
     
  5. Place the pork belly, along with any leftover curing mixture, into a plastic bag and seal it shut. Store it lengthwise in the refrigerator for 10 to 14 days, turning the bag over occasionally. The bacon should be fully cured at this point, with a firm texture and no soft spots.

    Seasoned pork belly in a plastic bag
     
  6. Rinse the bacon well and again pat it thoroughly dry with paper towels. Cook the bacon according to your preferred method.

    Scored pork belly
     

Smoke the Cured Bacon

  1. After rinsing off the cure, place the bacon on a rack and let it dry for 1 to 2 hours to form a pellicle—a sticky surface layer of proteins that forms on the surface of the meat. This helps the smoke cling to it, resulting in more flavorful bacon.

     
  2. Smoke the cured, air-dried bacon at approximately 200 F until it reaches an internal temperature of 150 F / 66 C, the minimum safe temperature for consumption of this product. The process should take between 1 and 2 hours.

     
  3. Fry your bacon in a nonstick pan or cast-iron skillet and enjoy.

     

Cook the Cured Bacon in the Oven

  1. Preheat the oven to 200 F / 93 C. Roast the cured bacon until the internal temperature reaches at least 150 F / 66 C, the minimum safe temperature for consumption of this product. The process should take about 2 hours. Store the bacon in a tightly sealed container or bag in the refrigerator for up to one month or in the freezer for up to one year.

     
  2. Fry your bacon in a nonstick pan or cast-iron skillet and enjoy.

     

What Is Curing Salt?

Most commercial bacon contains nitrates, which are sold to the home cook in blends called "curing salts" or Prague powder. Nitrates preserve the bright pink color of the layers of meat in bacon and other preserved meats and help eliminate bacteria.

In very small amounts, they are considered safe to consume, but because of the evidence that these products can cause carcinogenic compounds to form and lead to many types of gastric cancer, many people choose to leave them out2. If you are concerned about bacteria in your homemade bacon and don't mind having some added nitrates, include the curing salt.

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On 3/4/2021 at 2:44 AM, Team Prada said:

Forget what the greenies tell you about some, wind, and batteries... It's all bullshit... 

Curiously I was reading the other day that engineers for Mercedes Benz claimed that synthesized fuels could be made to burn so clean that they can compete with wind, solar and nuclear in the green energy department.

It leads on to ask, can we take fossil fuel and engineer it to make it burn clean?

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6 minutes ago, quod umbra said:

I wonder how many of you sought, found, watched and considered the video being referenced?

why would anyone do that?

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Well, that drew the PA crowd like a turkey call. 

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5 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Curiously I was reading the other day that engineers for Mercedes Benz claimed that synthesized fuels could be made to burn so clean that they can compete with wind, solar and nuclear in the green energy department.

It leads on to ask, can we take fossil fuel and engineer it to make it burn clean?

Antithetical to the PA crowd and this is not a PA subject.

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

why would anyone do that?

Agree. 
 

Oil will remain necessary for certain specialty chemicals and some plastics. Maybe solar panels, wind turbines and autos (yachts?) will need enough petroleum-plastic to keep a few of those beautiful clean oil wells around. 

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13 minutes ago, warbird said:
5 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Curiously I was reading the other day that engineers for Mercedes Benz claimed that synthesized fuels could be made to burn so clean that they can compete with wind, solar and nuclear in the green energy department.

It leads on to ask, can we take fossil fuel and engineer it to make it burn clean?

Antithetical to the PA crowd and this is not a PA subject.

Curiously, did those engineers tell where the energy came from to make those cleaner synthetic fuels?

Those synthetic fuels are great, but they're like carbon fiber. Doesn't just fall out of the air, or grow on trees.

 

10 minutes ago, El Borracho said:

...
 

Oil will remain necessary for certain specialty chemicals and some plastics. Maybe solar panels, wind turbines and autos (yachts?) will need enough petroleum-plastic to keep a few of those beautiful clean oil wells around. 

In the future, people will think we were criminally stupid to burn almost all the oil in the world for cheap energy when you can make all kinds of very valuable products out of it.

- DSK

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mmmmmm bacon tastes good

 

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

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DAMN! That reminds me. I should have had a brisket in brine last weekend to make a proper corned beef dinner on the17th! Good god! I'll have to start it tomorrow and hope it gets pickled in time.....

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8 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Curiously, did those engineers tell where the energy came from to make those cleaner synthetic fuels?

Those synthetic fuels are great, but they're like carbon fiber. Doesn't just fall out of the air, or grow on trees.

 

In the future, people will think we were criminally stupid to burn almost all the oil in the world for cheap energy when you can make all kinds of very valuable products out of it.

- DSK

Twat .. we use the Fuel portion of oil to power and deliver valuable products ...   Then we use, what was originally considered a waste "bi product" to make everything plastic from resins to hi grade surgical equipment to.... 

 

Just think about your paint, gel coat, varnish, car components, syringes, rope, ..... 

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11 hours ago, quod umbra said:

I wonder how many of you sought, found, watched and considered the video being referenced?

Not many...   Yet they all will want all the benefits of oil refined based products that are produced to save life's,...

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On 3/4/2021 at 9:45 PM, rantro said:

Ingredients

  • 2 to 3 pounds pork belly

  • 1/2 cup brown sugar

  • 3 tablespoons kosher salt (or other coarse, non-iodized salt)

  • 1 1/4 teaspoons ground black pepper

  • 1/2 teaspoon curing salt

Steps to Make It

 

While there are multiple steps to this recipe, we've broken this bacon preparation process down into workable categories to help you better plan for curing and cooking.

 

Cure the Bacon

  1. Gather the ingredients.

    Ingredients for making bacon
     
  2. Carefully wash the pork belly and pat dry with paper towels.

    Patting the pork belly dry with a paper towel
     
  3. In a small bowl, combine the brown sugar, salt, pepper, and optional curing salt. Mix well.

    A bowl of seasonings for the pork belly
     
  4. Rub the seasoning mixture onto all sides of the pork belly using very clean hands. Spend a couple of minutes massaging the curing mixture into the meat.

    Seasoning mixture is rubbed into the pork belly
     
  5. Place the pork belly, along with any leftover curing mixture, into a plastic bag and seal it shut. Store it lengthwise in the refrigerator for 10 to 14 days, turning the bag over occasionally. The bacon should be fully cured at this point, with a firm texture and no soft spots.

    Seasoned pork belly in a plastic bag
     
  6. Rinse the bacon well and again pat it thoroughly dry with paper towels. Cook the bacon according to your preferred method.

    Scored pork belly
     

Smoke the Cured Bacon

  1. After rinsing off the cure, place the bacon on a rack and let it dry for 1 to 2 hours to form a pellicle—a sticky surface layer of proteins that forms on the surface of the meat. This helps the smoke cling to it, resulting in more flavorful bacon.

     
  2. Smoke the cured, air-dried bacon at approximately 200 F until it reaches an internal temperature of 150 F / 66 C, the minimum safe temperature for consumption of this product. The process should take between 1 and 2 hours.

     
  3. Fry your bacon in a nonstick pan or cast-iron skillet and enjoy.

     

Cook the Cured Bacon in the Oven

  1. Preheat the oven to 200 F / 93 C. Roast the cured bacon until the internal temperature reaches at least 150 F / 66 C, the minimum safe temperature for consumption of this product. The process should take about 2 hours. Store the bacon in a tightly sealed container or bag in the refrigerator for up to one month or in the freezer for up to one year.

     
  2. Fry your bacon in a nonstick pan or cast-iron skillet and enjoy.

     

What Is Curing Salt?

Most commercial bacon contains nitrates, which are sold to the home cook in blends called "curing salts" or Prague powder. Nitrates preserve the bright pink color of the layers of meat in bacon and other preserved meats and help eliminate bacteria.

In very small amounts, they are considered safe to consume, but because of the evidence that these products can cause carcinogenic compounds to form and lead to many types of gastric cancer, many people choose to leave them out2. If you are concerned about bacteria in your homemade bacon and don't mind having some added nitrates, include the curing salt.

 

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11 hours ago, El Borracho said:

Agree. 
 

Oil will remain necessary for certain specialty chemicals and some plastics. Maybe solar panels, wind turbines and autos (yachts?) will need enough petroleum-plastic to keep a few of those beautiful clean oil wells around. 

All the more reason not to waste it away on doing what other means can accomplish, so that we have a lasting source for those things only oil can make.

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12 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Curiously, did those engineers tell where the energy came from to make those cleaner synthetic fuels?

Those synthetic fuels are great, but they're like carbon fiber. Doesn't just fall out of the air, or grow on trees.

 

In the future, people will think we were criminally stupid to burn almost all the oil in the world for cheap energy when you can make all kinds of very valuable products out of it.

- DSK

LOL, now I do know a little about carbon fibre, how it is made currently and how it first came about from sludge (aka pre-cursor) that settled in oil tankers......

Point being things evolve. So I think you are limiting yourself with the above in thinking that only certain fuels/energy sources could be used to make synthetic fossil fuel replacements. At some point in time when the process is refined and as efficient as possible, you would be using synthetics to make synthetics one would think.

As for the last line..... perhaps, but i think that is myopic in seeing the world as it currently is rather than considering that it constantly changes. Two or three decades ago carbon fibre was an exotic material. Today, widely used.

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Oil..... It's so 20th century! :rolleyes:

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14 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

In the future, people will think we were criminally stupid to burn almost all the oil in the world for cheap energy when you can make all kinds of very valuable products out of it.

- DSK

The myth of scarcity. An incredibly common misconception. 

When I started in the industry Jimmy Carter was president, he promoted the myth, saying we were 'running out of oil'. 

We supposedly only had 30 years of reserves/supply remaining. 30 years later we had produced/consumed 50% more than what were thought to be total worldwide reserves back in 1979. Yet world reserves in 2009 were larger than in 1979. What happened?

 Reserves are an economic, not a geological, number. The world is essentially out of $10/bbl oil, mainly because 10 Bucks ain't what it used to be. We're pretty low on $30 oil. The Saudis have a lot at that price, as do the Iraqis and Russians. That price is lower than the US cost of reserve replacement. 

We have an abundance of $60  oil. There is all the $100 oil you could ever imagine. 

The sun has a finite amount of hydrogen to burn, but as a practical matter, it doesn't matter. Theoretically finite, practically infinite.

When the age of oil ends it will not be due to shortages, it will be due to replacement by better technologies, which is happening right now. Scarcity will have nothing to do with it, any more than the Stone Age ending due to a shortage of rocks. 

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Got to agree. The Climate change pressure on carbon is driving that change as the pollution issues with high thermal efficiency and better controls reduce other emissions. 
 

Had a long discussion on the move to EVs yesterday. Several of us are looking at new cars this year and wondering “when do I switch?”  Living in a rural area, I would need an honest 300 miles in the winter to avoid range anxiety. Some are getting there but not many yet. 
Taxes and other incentives will make gasoline more expensive but even if new cars and trucks are all newer tech in 10 years the residual ICE cars will line on the road for 15 years or more beyond that. I’m having some repairs done this week on SWMBO’ older clunker to push the decision out another 18 months or so. 

Still need to get carbon free power and a better grid to cut to really make a difference other than 0 emission urban cores. 

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21 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

 , I would need an honest 300 miles in the winter to avoid range anxiety. Some are getting there but not many yet. 

 

300 miles is becoming a 3 1/2 -4 1/2 hour drive.  What is the recharge time for those midwest, northwest and Canadian snowbirds headed to Florida or Arizona in winter.  Will the charging station suffer rollling brownouts in the absence of wind and sun in those dark still 0 degree days?  This thread is largely populated by denizens of Countries with relatively clean electrical sources and incredibly clean vehicle standards.  All will be swept aside by-See the source image

and..See the source image

...andSee the source image

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On 3/5/2021 at 10:43 AM, quod umbra said:

Curiously I was reading the other day that engineers for Mercedes Benz claimed that synthesized fuels could be made to burn so clean that they can compete with wind, solar and nuclear in the green energy department.

It leads on to ask, can we take fossil fuel and engineer it to make it burn clean?

It all depends on how much it will cost per mile.

19 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Curiously, did those engineers tell where the energy came from to make those cleaner synthetic fuels?

Those synthetic fuels are great, but they're like carbon fiber. Doesn't just fall out of the air, or grow on trees.

In the future, people will think we were criminally stupid to burn almost all the oil in the world for cheap energy when you can make all kinds of very valuable products out of it.

- DSK

I've read many scientists believe that oil is manufactured deep in the earth and seep up. Which is why the supply is good. The shortages are man made so the few can make shitloads of profits.

I wish they would get on with the Helium3 reactor. Helium3 is in vast abundance.  One reason the race to the moon is back on.

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1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

It all depends on how much it will cost per mile.

I've read many scientists believe that oil is manufactured deep in the earth and seep up. Which is why the supply is good. The shortages are man made so the few can make shitloads of profits.

I wish they would get on with the Helium3 reactor. Helium3 is in vast abundance.  One reason the race to the moon is back on.

If true, it's seeping up a hell of a lot slower than we are pumping it out. I helped prototype and train the crews for the seawater injection pumps that are currently ramming as much of the Persian Gulf as they can into the oil fields of Saudi.

I am not familiar with the Helium 3 reactor, sounds good.... we need fusion. We've hearing "it's 10 years in the future" for about 40 years now.

- DSK

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7 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

The myth of scarcity. An incredibly common misconception. 

When I started in the industry Jimmy Carter was president, he promoted the myth, saying we were 'running out of oil'. 

We supposedly only had 30 years of reserves/supply remaining. 30 years later we had produced/consumed 50% more than what were thought to be total worldwide reserves back in 1979. Yet world reserves in 2009 were larger than in 1979. What happened?

 Reserves are an economic, not a geological, number. The world is essentially out of $10/bbl oil, mainly because 10 Bucks ain't what it used to be. We're pretty low on $30 oil. The Saudis have a lot at that price, as do the Iraqis and Russians. That price is lower than the US cost of reserve replacement. 

We have an abundance of $60  oil. There is all the $100 oil you could ever imagine. 

The sun has a finite amount of hydrogen to burn, but as a practical matter, it doesn't matter. Theoretically finite, practically infinite.

When the age of oil ends it will not be due to shortages, it will be due to replacement by better technologies, which is happening right now. Scarcity will have nothing to do with it, any more than the Stone Age ending due to a shortage of rocks. 

If you "don't believe" in the Hubbert peak, then there's really no point in discussing it.

We will never run out of oil. We are already running short of oil that can be easily and relatively safely extracted. That's why we're drilling deeper, fracking, drilling further offshore, etc etc. There's a reason why we didn't drill in those places 50 years.

Shortage is not a myth at all. The USA hit it's domestic Hubbert peak around 1970, which is -exactly- (within limits of what science can predict) what Hubbert predicted.

How many more Saudis are there to find?

The Earth is guesstimated to hold a good bit more than 1 trillion barrels of oil. It is extremely unlikely to hold significantly more than 3 trillion, so the usual guestimate is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 trillion. In the history of oil (approx 150 years), we've already pumped and burned about one and a quarter trillion.

- DSK

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2 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

It all depends on how much it will cost per mile.

I've read many scientists believe that oil is manufactured deep in the earth and seep up. Which is why the supply is good. The shortages are man made so the few can make shitloads of profits.

I wish they would get on with the Helium3 reactor. Helium3 is in vast abundance.  One reason the race to the moon is back on.

Helium was becoming very expensive 7 or 8 years ago.  It was rare and becoming more so.  Gas Chromatography relies on a carrier gas and our lab used Helium(look at the periodic table) to avert the dangers of using/storing/transporting hydrogen.  At that time I worked tirelessly to convert our gas chromatography to a nitrogen carrier gas and replumbed our lap for that change over.  The methods I developed for a nitrogen carrier gas were tested successfully against helium on a number of occassions . Have new ways of capturing helium be discovered?

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13 hours ago, Team Prada said:

Twat .. 

Why do you think this is necessary? Your target @Steam Flyer didn't call you any names. The gratuitous insult is common in PA, I would suggest you leave it there, as it serves only to diminish any arguments you might make.

If you look at the most respected people outside of PA: Point Break, IB, Snaggs, Bmiller and others, a common thread is that they don't indulge in gratuitous insults. 

SF and I disagree on quite a lot, in this very thread, for example, but do so while maintaining decorum. 

SF, the answer to your post requires a really long explanation, not suitable for here. I had a similar discussion with the author of "twilight in the desert" at a party before he passed. 

Let's say sometime we meet for a drink on a boat, where we have time and opportunity to discuss at length. I have a degree in Petroleum Engineering with a minor in geology, and over 40 years of practical experience. This is a subject with which I am not unfamiliar. We can pick guitars as we talk and drink. 

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14 minutes ago, Cruisin Loser said:

...  ...

SF and I disagree on quite a lot, in this very thread, for example, but do so while maintaining decorum. 

SF, the answer to your post requires a really long explanation, not suitable for here. I had a similar discussion with the author of "twilight in the desert" at a party before he passed. 

Let's say sometime we meet for a drink on a boat, where we have time and opportunity to discuss at length. I have a degree in Petroleum Engineering with a minor in geology, and over 40 years of practical experience. This is a subject with which I am not unfamiliar. We can pick guitars as we talk and drink. 

I would enjoy that quite lot.

My perspective is merely that of a person with a wide range of interests and some practical experience in engineering... please note that I agree we are not going to run out of oil.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Why do you think this is necessary? Your target @Steam Flyer didn't call you any names. The gratuitous insult is common in PA, I would suggest you leave it there, as it serves only to diminish any arguments you might make.

If you look at the most respected people outside of PA: Point Break, IB, Snaggs, Bmiller and others, a common thread is that they don't indulge in gratuitous insults. 

SF and I disagree on quite a lot, in this very thread, for example, but do so while maintaining decorum. 

SF, the answer to your post requires a really long explanation, not suitable for here. I had a similar discussion with the author of "twilight in the desert" at a party before he passed. 

Let's say sometime we meet for a drink on a boat, where we have time and opportunity to discuss at length. I have a degree in Petroleum Engineering with a minor in geology, and over 40 years of practical experience. This is a subject with which I am not unfamiliar. We can pick guitars as we talk and drink. 

Oh FFS harden up...

This is an environment issue not political....  Only moron's turn it into a PA issue because they can't deal with it and want the same people that created the issue to try and fix it... When they too are led by myopic grreenies with no idea on the reality of green energy.

This video is not, I repeat not, about comparing energy sources as they relate to the atmosphere / global warming  ( as plenty here think) but how it relates to digging 2000x + more holes in prestine land in order to mine the materials required to produce the highly ineffecient wind/ solar/ batteries the green wankers want.

It's also about all the waste these Green ideas will produce when they are past their use by date.

COMPREHEND NOW?...

So, when you look at a solar panel or wind generator think about the cost to the environment to the land and then ask yourself...what do I want...

A planet ruined by these things or...

Maybe hydrogen powered generation.   or maybe nuclear?... Or maybe petrol power is the better evil.

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Team Prada said:

Oh FFS harden up...

This is an environment issue not political....  Only moron's turn it into a PA issue because they can't deal with it and want the same people that created the issue to try and fix it... When they too are led by myopic grreenies with no idea on the reality of green energy.

This video is not, I repeat not, about comparing energy sources as they relate to the atmosphere / global warming  ( as plenty here think) but how it relates to digging 2000x + more holes in prestine land in order to mine the materials required to produce the highly ineffecient wind/ solar/ batteries the green wankers want.

It's also about all the waste these Green ideas will produce when they are past their use by date.

COMPREHEND NOW?...

So, when you look at a solar panel or wind generator think about the cost to the environment to the land and then ask yourself...what do I want...

A planet ruined by these things or...

Maybe hydrogen powered generation.   or maybe nuclear?... Or maybe petrol power is the better evil.

 

 

 

Duuuuude. I own a fucking oil drilling and producing company ffs. Got a call early this AM from Shell, they fracked into one of my producing wells in a big  3-well zipper frac. 

My issue is with name calling outside of PA. In these forums we should all pretend we are in a conversation in the cockpit of an elegant yacht. 

Want to be in those kind of conversations? Then act like that kind of guy. 

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I'm getting a creepy skin feeling that BravoX2 is back......

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the petroleum economy is killing the planet, so is human demand for energy.

Earth first; the only global priority that is 'sustainable'.

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8 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

I wish they would get on with the Helium3 reactor. Helium3 is in vast abundance.  One reason the race to the moon is back on.

I always thought that the Helium 3 thing was just something made up by Hollywood.

 

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3 minutes ago, floating dutchman said:

I always thought that the Helium 3 thing was just something made up by Hollywood.

 

Yeah, like ice nine.

 

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2 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

I'm getting a creepy skin feeling that BravoX2 is back......

He claimed he has a Kiwi passport, plus another one. Just an example of how not even all Kiwis can be reasonably nice.

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3 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Get back to us on that point.

you're a 'simple sort' aren't cha.. but anyway, last time I checked, the non-human world doesn't give a shit, or is that within your personal realm of consideration? 

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5 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Duuuuude. I own a fucking oil drilling and producing company ffs. Got a call early this AM from Shell, they fracked into one of my producing wells in a big  3-well zipper frac. 

My issue is with name calling outside of PA. In these forums we should all pretend we are in a conversation in the cockpit of an elegant yacht. 

Want to be in those kind of conversations? Then act like that kind of guy. 

Dude?…..  that's not a conversation starter I've ever had on my super yacht ...  

Dude.  I used to be exactly that person until I realize that people need to brought out of their naive stupidity with reality rather than pandering to their ignorance to make them feel better.

I hate people that comment on topics without any reasoning or valid argument. ... They will get the reply they deserve.

I don't waste my compliments on fools.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

He claimed he has a Kiwi passport, plus another one. Just an example of how not even all Kiwis can be reasonably nice.

Yip...  And your point is?... You presume I'm kiwi...

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2 hours ago, Team Prada said:

Yip...  And your point is?... You presume I'm kiwi...

I certainly hope not. But if you have a Kiwi passport then, yes you are.

Hopefully you were just talking shit about having one.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

I certainly hope not. But if you have a Kiwi passport then, yes you are.

Hopefully you were just talking shit about having one.

I have one but I am ashamed of NZ and it's current " race to the bottom" thanks to CINDY and her woke leftie green cronies and their obsession with spending billions looking after the thousand of losers Many if which are filling your hotels....   And I'm not talking MIQ!

NZ is in for a big reality check very soon when the bill come in and the stats show the reality of dumb decisions.

Just look at your murder and suicide rate .. world leaders!...

Your new green policies will do nothing for the planet...  But you will pay through the nose for them.

Then there is their agenda to empty prisons of Maori, kill of your diesel fleet,  tax you into Oblivion, and free lunches for kid with piss poor parents ( who drink and smoke their welfare money away).,.....  To name just a few of the many things you tax payers will have to cover.

NZ has lost lost it's mojo and is bloody expensive.

 

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2 hours ago, Team Prada said:

I have one but I am ashamed of NZ and it's current " race to the bottom" thanks to CINDY and her woke leftie green cronies and their obsession with spending billions looking after the thousand of losers Many if which are filling your hotels....   And I'm not talking MIQ!

NZ is in for a big reality check very soon when the bill come in and the stats show the reality of dumb decisions.

Just look at your murder and suicide rate .. world leaders!...

Your new green policies will do nothing for the planet...  But you will pay through the nose for them.

Then there is their agenda to empty prisons of Maori, kill of your diesel fleet,  tax you into Oblivion, and free lunches for kid with piss poor parents ( who drink and smoke their welfare money away).,.....  To name just a few of the many things you tax payers will have to cover.

NZ has lost lost it's mojo and is bloody expensive.

 

Definitely need to take it to PA.

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17 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

It all depends on how much it will cost per mile.

I've read many scientists believe that oil is manufactured deep in the earth and seep up. Which is why the supply is good. The shortages are man made so the few can make shitloads of profits.

I wish they would get on with the Helium3 reactor. Helium3 is in vast abundance.  One reason the race to the moon is back on.

Absolutely Mr. Wad. But I am not so sure it is cost of "clean" gas as opposed to regular gas. I think the dollars comparison would be relative to other alternatives, such as wind and solar. So say solar produces electricity 40% of the time, but clean gas works 100% of the time, do you then factor in relative availability? That is to say id clean gas is 60% higher in cost, is it thus on a par with solar? Or perhaps with solar you need to factor in the cost of storage batteries per Kw and then compare that to clean gas?
I think one of the big issues with the Green Movement is that unless it is 100% reliable, we should not waste or time on it in favor of other cleaner solutions.

What I always find interesting is our electric infrastructure struggles now at peak demand. So it we make EV the standard, what happens to the grid? Is EV practical when you factor in the cost to upgrade the grid to twice the capacity in say the next 2 decades? Is that even possible??

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4 hours ago, quod umbra said:

What I always find interesting is our electric infrastructure struggles now at peak demand. So it we make EV the standard, what happens to the grid? Is EV practical when you factor in the cost to upgrade the grid to twice the capacity in say the next 2 decades? Is that even possible??

The other way to look a EV's is all the batteries that could potentially be sitting on the grid and help the struggling grid to cope with peak demand, those cars could then recharge late a night while the power is cheap.

Doesn't change the fact that you will still have to beef up electrical production, but the cars could in theory be used as a buffer, maybe even making things like solar and wind more viable.

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9 hours ago, Team Prada said:

I have one but I am ashamed of NZ and it's current " race to the bottom" thanks to CINDY and her woke leftie green cronies and their obsession with spending billions looking after the thousand of losers Many if which are filling your hotels....   And I'm not talking MIQ!

NZ is in for a big reality check very soon when the bill come in and the stats show the reality of dumb decisions.

Just look at your murder and suicide rate .. world leaders!...

Your new green policies will do nothing for the planet...  But you will pay through the nose for them.

Then there is their agenda to empty prisons of Maori, kill of your diesel fleet,  tax you into Oblivion, and free lunches for kid with piss poor parents ( who drink and smoke their welfare money away).,.....  To name just a few of the many things you tax payers will have to cover.

NZ has lost lost it's mojo and is bloody expensive.

 

I agree with much of this, but the blame lies with our leaders over the past decades. They put our country on the path it is going, Jacinda is just letting it carry on.

However, with your negativity, you could just relinquish the Kiwi passport. Would make us all feel better.

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22 hours ago, warbird said:

Helium was becoming very expensive 7 or 8 years ago.  It was rare and becoming more so.  Gas Chromatography relies on a carrier gas and our lab used Helium(look at the periodic table) to avert the dangers of using/storing/transporting hydrogen.  At that time I worked tirelessly to convert our gas chromatography to a nitrogen carrier gas and replumbed our lap for that change over.  The methods I developed for a nitrogen carrier gas were tested successfully against helium on a number of occassions . Have new ways of capturing helium be discovered?

Helium3 is a by product of the Solar Furnace and the Moon is full of it. there is quite a bit in our oceans but must be extracted.

the H3 reactor or Plasma Fusion Reactor was, last time I read working for short periods (3 sec) but it may be onward now.
This 2017 article has it in a nutshell. https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a27961/mit-nuclear-fusion-experiment-increases-efficiency/

The Plasma Reactor is very similar to the Plasma Drive that has been militarized and gone silent. I'm sure it worked so good in space testing that China hacked the plans and probably are building a space craft now as I am also sure the US probably has one.

I feel that the push to have big facilities produce power and then distribute it is a mistake. Smaller, maybe household generators that operate would be a real smart way to decentralize the grid. But that is SciFi.

21 hours ago, Team Prada said:

Oh FFS harden up...

This is an environment issue not political.... 

 

I think it is more of an over population issue. Poverty is breeding out of control. Too many think reproduction is a god given right. People that should never have kids are having too many.

Also a problem, is our Economic Model, based on constant growth and Stock Valuation. This is a recipe for Disaster, as in Population Growth is needed for Economic Growth.

I'm sure I will be called a Nazi for even suggesting it though.

 

8 hours ago, quod umbra said:

Absolutely Mr. Wad. But I am not so sure it is cost of "clean" gas as opposed to regular gas. I think the dollars comparison would be relative to other alternatives, such as wind and solar. So say solar produces electricity 40% of the time, but clean gas works 100% of the time, do you then factor in relative availability? That is to say id clean gas is 60% higher in cost, is it thus on a par with solar? Or perhaps with solar you need to factor in the cost of storage batteries per Kw and then compare that to clean gas?
I think one of the big issues with the Green Movement is that unless it is 100% reliable, we should not waste or time on it in favor of other cleaner solutions.

What I always find interesting is our electric infrastructure struggles now at peak demand. So it we make EV the standard, what happens to the grid? Is EV practical when you factor in the cost to upgrade the grid to twice the capacity in say the next 2 decades? Is that even possible??

The Distribution Grid is a major issue. a more decentralized power plan is what the Home Solar System hopes to achieve.

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

I agree with much of this, but the blame lies with our leaders over the past decades. They put our country on the path it is going, Jacinda is just letting it carry on.

 

Just at a fast rate.

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1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

Smaller, maybe household generators that operate would be a real smart way to decentralize the grid. 

mostly nutter stuff in your comment, but what would you define as a household generator? I "capture" about 80% of my electric needs from the sun. Is that a "household generator?"

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1 hour ago, SloopJohnB said:

Just at a fast rate.

To bo honest I think this is where it was headed, she has just done zero about slowing or stopping it. Prior to covid she was looking at being the first single term PM for many decades, almost a century from memory.

She was turned into a Saint by the media, so she won a second term with a huge majority. The problem is she seems to either not want do anything, is scared to do anything, or has no idea what to do. Not good for us, but at least the rest of the world loves her.

As an aside, I am not saying the other parties would be much better.

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6 hours ago, floating dutchman said:

The other way to look a EV's is all the batteries that could potentially be sitting on the grid and help the struggling grid to cope with peak demand, those cars could then recharge late a night while the power is cheap.

Doesn't change the fact that you will still have to beef up electrical production, but the cars could in theory be used as a buffer, maybe even making things like solar and wind more viable.

That's a great idea, hadn't heard that before. We laready have load trimming and reselling controllers (beginning to be designated as interfaces) in homes. In most states, the power company is forced by law to buy electricity from you if they let you pump back into the grid.

The problem with decentralized power production is that it is far less efficient. Somewhat true of storage also.

FB- Doug

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12 hours ago, quod umbra said:

So it we make EV the standard, what happens to the grid? Is EV practical when you factor in the cost to upgrade the grid to twice the capacity in say the next 2 decades? Is that even possible??

yes, of course.  In the US, it's been increasing for decades at a steady rate, though it's slowed down past 15-20 years it looks like. Why not continue to slowly increase it as demand from EV slowly increases? 

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us-generation-capacity-and-sales.php

image.png.0ea53612f4e4ebbd8662f016aee5e929.png

 

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Heck, do a back of the envelope calculation. This is why you went to elementary school (assumption on my part)

~15 million new cars & light trucks / year sold in US
https://www.statista.com/statistics/199983/us-vehicle-sales-since-1951/
- Assume for the next few years electric cars are 10% of all the cars/trucks sold. So 1.5m / year (currently they are only 2.5% in 2019; 2020 was weird so I ignored it)
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/our-insights/mckinsey-electric-vehicle-index-europe-cushions-a-global-plunge-in-ev-sales#
- semi typical EV efficiency (Chevy Bolt) - 28 kWh/100 miles
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/what-is-mpge
- typical range driven by US driver - about 13,500 mile
https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32880477/average-mileage-per-year/

The math:

1 car:  13,500 miles/year x (28 kWh/100 miles) = 3780 kW.h/year
1.5M cars = 3780 kW.hr/year x 1.5M = 5,670,000,000 kW.h = 5.67 billion kilowatt hours. 

Currently the US produces ~4000 B.kW.hrs

So that's an increase of 5.67/4000 = 0.0014175 = 0.1% annual increase....

Even if ALL the cars and trucks sold next year were electric, that would represent a 1% increase in electric grid demand.  As the adoption rate is much, much lower, I think you'll pull through. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

. Smaller, maybe household generators that operate would be a real smart way to decentralize the grid. But that is SciFi.

3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

mostly nutter stuff in your comment, but what would you define as a household generator? I "capture" about 80% of my electric needs from the sun. Is that a "household generator?"

Thinking about an older article about the Thorium reactor AKA Molten Salt. I think it was about a car that would be powered for 1000 years. Yes there are pros and cons. But it was a novel idea that also thought about decentralizing the grid. Because after driving you car, you would plug in your house and the grid.

Thorium Reactor - Thorium Power Plant (nuclear-power.net)

Yes it was a novel idea but it made people think. Also what if we could go to the hardware store and buy the Helium3 or whatever cell to fuel your house for the next 30 days.
You have to understand that our current economy is based on Monthly payments. Yes that is the Stock Market influence of our economy (that must change).

If every house had a generator that would power their household and charge the car without being hooked up to a grid, except to shed our wasted energy (that would give us credit), wouldn't that be the answer????????????????? Well for the average person you would say YES. But for the mega corporations...............NO.

Remember it is all about Control, So Mr. Raz'r, it does not take much thought (scifi) to see the future. Unless you are all in the Stock Market.

 

so either we vote for the people or we vote for death.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

Thinking about an older article about the Thorium reactor AKA Molten Salt. I think it was about a car that would be powered for 1000 years. Yes there are pros and cons. But it was a novel idea that also thought about decentralizing the grid. Because after driving you car, you would plug in your house and the grid.

Thorium Reactor - Thorium Power Plant (nuclear-power.net)

Yes it was a novel idea but it made people think. Also what if we could go to the hardware store and buy the Helium3 or whatever cell to fuel your house for the next 30 days.
You have to understand that our current economy is based on Monthly payments. Yes that is the Stock Market influence of our economy (that must change).

If every house had a generator that would power their household and charge the car without being hooked up to a grid, except to shed our wasted energy (that would give us credit), wouldn't that be the answer????????????????? Well for the average person you would say YES. But for the mega corporations...............NO.

Remember it is all about Control, So Mr. Raz'r, it does not take much thought (scifi) to see the future. Unless you are all in the Stock Market.

 

so either we vote for the people or we vote for death.

 

 

Umm, Wad, for $15k you can get 8kw of solar capacity, add a powerwall for $8k and you're your own utility. Excess generating capacity and enough storage to be independent overnight. Shit, 1 battery and you have 3 days of independence if you can't generate, 2 batteries give you 7 days of no generation. Boom.

Not only is no one fighting it (Wall Street!)  but, in fact, the Feds will give you a subsidy and Musk is a wall street darling. 

Trade in you tinfoil hat, the one you'rer wearing is too tight.

 

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Umm, Wad, for $15k you can get 8kw of solar capacity, add a powerwall for $8k and you're your own utility. Excess generating capacity and enough storage to be independent overnight. Shit, 1 battery and you have 3 days of independence if you can't generate, 2 batteries give you 7 days of no generation. Boom.

Not only is no one fighting it (Wall Street!)  but, in fact, the Feds will give you a subsidy and Musk is a wall street darling. 

Trade in you tinfoil hat, the one you'rer wearing is too tight.

 

Gotta say, my last electricity bill was $2.54. Pretty typical with our solar and power wall. Payback on the investment was predicted at 8 years 5 years ago. I should run the numbers but I’m not that interested. Pay me now or pay me later. The nice thing is I still have juice for a little while if power goes out. Not a long while like a genset but enough for the typical outages lengths we typically get around here. I’m good. 

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8 hours ago, Gissie said:

To bo honest I think this is where it was headed, she has just done zero about slowing or stopping it. Prior to covid she was looking at being the first single term PM for many decades, almost a century from memory.

She was turned into a Saint by the media, so she won a second term with a huge majority. The problem is she seems to either not want do anything, is scared to do anything, or has no idea what to do. Not good for us, but at least the rest of the world loves her.

As an aside, I am not saying the other parties would be much better.

Shes out if her depth...  She is just " faking it until she makes it". ... But she won't.

What's most disturbing is that most dumb kiwis buy onto her spin.... 

Mind you, the amount of people no on a benefit or wage subsidy is a big proportion of the voter base now. . .. labour will blow the accounts, blame Covid, then national will get in on a landslide... And have to fix the Cindy disaster. 

Cindy needs to realize.. People who try to be nice to everyone generally end up being nice to no one!

. she's all talk and spin... and No substance!

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12 hours ago, Gissie said:

I agree with much of this, but the blame lies with our leaders over the past decades. They put our country on the path it is going, Jacinda is just letting it carry on.

However, with your negativity, you could just relinquish the Kiwi passport. Would make us all feel better.

Negativity is realism viewed by people who don't understand ..

It's funny that you agree with my realism..   but call it negative.

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5 minutes ago, Team Prada said:

Shes out if her depth...  She is just " faking it until she makes it". ... But she won't.

What's most disturbing is that most dumb kiwis buy onto her spin.... 

Mind you, the amount of people no on a benefit or wage subsidy is a big proportion of the voter base now. . .. labour will blow the accounts, blame Covid, then national will get in on a landslide... And have to fix the Cindy disaster. 

Cindy needs to realize.. People who try to be nice to everyone generally end up being nice to no one!

. she's all talk and spin... and No substance!

Unfortunately, considering what national managed to do to this country in their nine years, I have little hope they will clean up bugger all.

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3 minutes ago, Team Prada said:

Negativity is realism viewed by people who don't understand ..

It's funny that you agree with my realism..   but call it negative.

Not at all, it is just the fact you are viewed as an asshole. You may be right in some of your opinions but it doesn't stop you being an asshole.

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4 hours ago, Point Break said:

Gotta say, my last electricity bill was $2.54. Pretty typical with our solar and power wall. Payback on the investment was predicted at 8 years 5 years ago. I should run the numbers but I’m not that interested. Pay me now or pay me later. The nice thing is I still have juice for a little while if power goes out. Not a long while like a genset but enough for the typical outages lengths we typically get around here. I’m good. 

This is the way....

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12 hours ago, Zonker said:

yes, of course.  In the US, it's been increasing for decades at a steady rate, though it's slowed down past 15-20 years it looks like. Why not continue to slowly increase it as demand from EV slowly increases? 

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us-generation-capacity-and-sales.php

image.png.0ea53612f4e4ebbd8662f016aee5e929.png

 

Thanks for posting that Zonker.

Appreciate it.

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Interesting that it’s Nat Gas eating coal’s lunch. From the noise of the pols, sounds like it’s renewable that’s doing the damage 

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10 hours ago, Point Break said:

Gotta say, my last electricity bill was $2.54. Pretty typical with our solar and power wall. Payback on the investment was predicted at 8 years 5 years ago. I should run the numbers but I’m not that interested. Pay me now or pay me later. The nice thing is I still have juice for a little while if power goes out. Not a long while like a genset but enough for the typical outages lengths we typically get around here. I’m good. 

Right!

Now you've got a lot more money to spend for WATER

FB- Doug

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We are sitting on a molten core of a planet, and more energy than we could ever use.

Seems to me that the solution is here... just how to drill to it is the issue.

Nanites or some robot drill are the solution.  Not 300 mile long pipes.

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Utilities build natural gas now instead of coal plants because NG is a cheaper fuel (fracking makes it abundant). So coal declines

The thing most people fail to realize is that renewable energy is not as mature as an industry. The price/kW.h is on a steady decline as bigger and cheaper wind turbines get produced and solar panels become cheaper. Solar and wind ARE cheaper than the rest right now.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2020/01/21/renewable-energy-prices-hit-record-lows-how-can-utilities-benefit-from-unstoppable-solar-and-wind/?sh=2049d8472c84

image.thumb.png.a4f328a51f7a28bb9d0cee01ca56e099.png

 

The power companies are just adding renewables because again, IT'S CHEAPER.

 

image.png.c8be9a197000d722b6a9b7fa01a351c0.png

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49 minutes ago, Zonker said:

 

 

The power companies are just adding renewables because again, IT'S CHEAPER.

 

 

NONONO, ITS A CONSPIRACY!

 

purple needed?

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57 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Utilities build natural gas now instead of coal plants because NG is a cheaper fuel (fracking makes it abundant). So coal declines

The thing most people fail to realize is that renewable energy is not as mature as an industry. The price/kW.h is on a steady decline as bigger and cheaper wind turbines get produced and solar panels become cheaper. Solar and wind ARE cheaper than the rest right now.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinnovation/2020/01/21/renewable-energy-prices-hit-record-lows-how-can-utilities-benefit-from-unstoppable-solar-and-wind/?sh=2049d8472c84

The power companies are just adding renewables because again, IT'S CHEAPER.

 

image.png.c8be9a197000d722b6a9b7fa01a351c0.png

Nope, those Power companies have invested all their surplus cash into cancer pharma.  They need to build out those wind machines pronto so they can create enough cancer patients to buy the drugs.  This is 100% true.

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11 hours ago, Gissie said:

Unfortunately, considering what national managed to do to this country in their nine years, I have little hope they will clean up bugger all.

True....   Time to vote Act!

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2 hours ago, Windward said:

We are sitting on a molten core of a planet, and more energy than we could ever use.

Seems to me that the solution is here... just how to drill to it is the issue.

Nanites or some robot drill are the solution.  Not 300 mile long pipes.

Brilliant..  let the heat escape from the core...  I'm thinking chernobyl...

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11 hours ago, Gissie said:

Not at all, it is just the fact you are viewed as an asshole. You may be right in some of your opinions but it doesn't stop you being an asshole.

Viewed by who?...  160 votes by about 6 people,

Hardly asshole material yet....

I must try harder...

 

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