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Oil!. Is the future of world energy


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I thought slant drilling was not limited by any degree of angle.  Can't they drill horizontally and any way they so choose?

Can you sacred sideslip a heart shape?

Gauntlet thrown @Jkdubz808

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3 hours ago, Jkdubz808 said:

II'm more here to watch the shit show with the YouTube researchers who think the science behind things are crap and everyone else is dumb except them.

:lol:

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1 hour ago, Windward said:

I thought slant drilling was not limited by any degree of angle.  Can't they drill horizontally and any way they so choose?

Can you sacred sideslip a heart shape?

Gauntlet thrown @Jkdubz808

Most deepwater stuff we are limited to 45 degrees.  I'm sure directional drilling in other aspects of oil extraction have less limitations than we do.  All depends on the equipment.

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12 minutes ago, Jkdubz808 said:

Most deepwater stuff we are limited to 45 degrees.  I'm sure directional drilling in other aspects of oil extraction have less limitations than we do.  All depends on the equipment.

I like the movie The Abyss, even though it is not real........................is it??

I started scuba when I was 15 and almost became a commercial diver but a job opened at the local sail loft.

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1 hour ago, Jkdubz808 said:

Most deepwater stuff we are limited to 45 degrees.  I'm sure directional drilling in other aspects of oil extraction have less limitations than we do.  All depends on the equipment.

We do 2 miles down then 2 miles straight sideways routinely. 

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6 hours ago, Jkdubz808 said:

I don't mind discussing things with you SF, you're outlook is good on a number of things.

 

I'm more here to watch the shit show with the YouTube researchers who think the science behind things are crap and everyone else is dumb except them.

Don't get me wrong, I love cheap gas.

One thing I love about this place that there are a lot of smart people and great sailors. I'm not either of those, but the entertainment is worth every penny

- DSK

 

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13 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Don't get me wrong, I love cheap gas.

One thing I love about this place that there are a lot of smart people and great sailors. I'm not either of those, but the entertainment is worth every penny

- DSK

 

What is this "gas" thing you speak of?

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

Why not 2.8 miles at 45 degrees?

Because we want to make money. The purpose of horizontal drilling is to expose more rockface in in the source rock. Pretty sure Dubs is drilling oil reservoirs. We’re not. There’s a difference.

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11 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

Because we want to make money. The purpose of horizontal drilling is to expose more rockface in in the source rock. Pretty sure Dubs is drilling oil reservoirs. We’re not. There’s a difference.

Bingo.  Our drilling strings have to go through very large BOPs at the wellhead, so wear and tear on the drillpipe (keyseating as we call it) is a major factor on our equipment, especially doing deep wells (think 27,000 feet below the sea bed).  Like I said, different setups for equipment are the factors that lead to the differences.

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On 3/10/2021 at 6:06 AM, Ishmael said:

Drillling up is futile.

No just painful.  I used to put ceiling panels and light fixtures among other things in commuter train cars years ago.  Holding a drill over your head is very tiresome after a short while, I assure you.

They put me on that job because I'm quite tall and I didn't need a ladder to do the job like most other folks, so I could do it faster.  Then to add insult to injury, I also had worked under the car to install the parts for the hand operated parking brake.  The distance from the floor of the shop to the underfloor of the car was 6' and usually less because of all of the other shit hanging under there.  I'm almost 6' 6" tall.

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19 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

discard, or disregard???

I spelled discard wrong. OP pulled something out his ass that was better left there.

 

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57 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

I spelled discard wrong. OP pulled something out his ass that was better left there.

 

 

OP was links to "unobtainium"; WTF does that have to do with oil?

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maybe the OP was having a 'moment'.

fuck oil, it's toxic to life on Earth, that can't be acceptable. 

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7 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

OP was links to "unobtainium"; WTF does that have to do with oil?

Not sure, but it provided some entertainment at least.

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32 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Amazing what I can learn here. Thanks

It is indeed!  I think most folks have fascinating and interesting knowledge to share.   It gets all muddled with the poo slinging, posturing and politics 

But there are gems here, and they are really cool to read about

You share your own PB with teasers from your book.  

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16 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

maybe the OP was having a 'moment'.

fuck oil, it's toxic to life on Earth, that can't be acceptable. 

Humans are toxic to life on earth and that's been acceptable since the1st human walked upright!

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43 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

Humans are toxic to life on earth and that's been acceptable since the1st human walked upright!

yea it's pretty obscene, and at the end of the day, the non-human world doesn't give a fuck how us humans rationalize (or not) how we go about existing on this planet. 

I'd say we're not ultimately a parasite.. but then I'd be lying. 

 

the ultimate 'moral quandary' (and that's putting it mildly).

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52 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

fuck oil, it's toxic to life on Earth, that can't be acceptable. 

May share that view, but oil is not as toxic as one may think.  The byproducts can be nasty, yes, but it can be burned and have the toxins scrubbed from the exhaust.  Merchant ships all over the world are having scrubbers installed on their exhaust stacks to scrub the nasty stuff created when diesel is burned as steps are being taken to lower emissions.  The way it is burned creates the problem.

 

There are also synthetic fuels being experimented on that are showing will burn much cleaner.

 

I agree its not healthy for the planet, but it will be a VERY long time before we can get away from oil completely.

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14 hours ago, 3to1 said:

maybe the OP was having a 'moment'.

fuck oil, it's toxic to life on Earth, that can't be acceptable. 

That must be why God tried to bury it way down deep.

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14 hours ago, Jkdubz808 said:

May share that view, but oil is not as toxic as one may think

No, it is only just enough to fuck the planet, nothing really.

You should drink some.

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3 hours ago, rantro said:

No, it is only just enough to fuck the planet, nothing really.

You should drink some.

That argument is irrelevant.  There are plenty of things that naturally occur (like oil) that is toxic to environments and will fuck you up if you drink it.....

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On 3/11/2021 at 2:02 AM, Cruisin Loser said:

Because we want to make money. The purpose of horizontal drilling is to expose more rockface in in the source rock. Pretty sure Dubs is drilling oil reservoirs. We’re not. There’s a difference.

Go on @Cruisin Loser, admit that it also scratches your inner crossword itch :ph34r:

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On 3/10/2021 at 9:54 PM, floating dutchman said:

How is that even possible?

Do you have a link or something explaining how that works?

You have me interested.

Directional drilling is cool shit.  I last worked on a drill rig almost 20 years ago so may not be the most qualified to discuss it, and things probably have advanced some since.  The concept, I believe, has been around forever...since the 1920s at least.  It probably started when someone did it by accident, and then discovered that there were advantages.  It really took off with the advent of mud motors, which rotate the drill bit by hydraulic pressure from the drilling mud rather than from rotation of then drill pipe.  Not having a spinning pipe in the well bore allows you to do all kinds of crazy things, like having steerable drill bits.  I think there’s a couple different ways of doing it, but one is by moving pads behind the bit, which changes the angle in the hole.  Navigation is done (or was done) by a Sperry gyro system.  Communication and programming of the bit, and this was the cool part for me, is done by pressure pulses in the drilling mud to and from the bit.  The returning mud is sent through some shaker tables to separate out the drill cuttings, which is analyzed by the geologists.  This allows them to essentially root around inside a formation and discover things without having to sink multiple wells, if that’s your goal.  Also, as noted above, it allows horizontal or other  directional wells to optimize extraction. 
 

Wikipedia here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_drilling

 

Video for a proprietary system, but you get the idea: 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, NaClH20 said:

Directional drilling is cool shit.  I last worked on a drill rig almost 20 years ago so may not be the most qualified to discuss it, and things probably have advanced some since.  The concept, I believe, has been around forever...since the 1920s at least.  It probably started when someone did it by accident, and then discovered that there were advantages.  It really took off with the advent of mud motors, which rotate the drill bit by hydraulic pressure from the drilling mud rather than from rotation of then drill pipe.  Not having a spinning pipe in the well bore allows you to do all kinds of crazy things, like having steerable drill bits.  I think there’s a couple different ways of doing it, but one is by moving pads behind the bit, which changes the angle in the hole.  Navigation is done (or was done) by a Sperry gyro system.  Communication and programming of the bit, and this was the cool part for me, is done by pressure pulses in the drilling mud to and from the bit.  The returning mud is sent through some shaker tables to separate out the drill cuttings, which is analyzed by the geologists.  This allows them to essentially root around inside a formation and discover things without having to sink multiple wells, if that’s your goal.  Also, as noted above, it allows horizontal or other  directional wells to optimize extraction. 
 

Wikipedia here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_drilling

 

Video for a proprietary system, but you get the idea: 

 

 

Still the same pretty much.  Still using pulses in the mud (downlinks) to change things down hole.  I'm not a driller so the exact science is lost on me but I know the basics of it.

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4 hours ago, Jkdubz808 said:

Still the same pretty much.  Still using pulses in the mud (downlinks) to change things down hole.  I'm not a driller so the exact science is lost on me but I know the basics of it.

Oh bet you do.

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9 hours ago, Jkdubz808 said:

Still the same pretty much.  Still using pulses in the mud (downlinks) to change things down hole.  I'm not a driller so the exact science is lost on me but I know the basics of it.

How is the drill retrieved?

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11 hours ago, Ishmael said:

How is the drill retrieved?

Its connected to the top drive that's in the derrick by a long string of drill pipe, connected to each other in 125 foot sections we call stands.  The stands are put together then stood upright in a section of the drill floor we call the setback.  It is not uncommon for us to have 600 tons of stands standing upright in the setbacks ready to be connected to the string.  Connect one stand to the string, lower it, connect the next one, lower that, etc etc until you get to the section that needs drilling out.  Reverse the process on the way up.

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On 3/12/2021 at 3:23 AM, Gissie said:
On 3/11/2021 at 12:24 PM, 3to1 said:

maybe the OP was having a 'moment'.

fuck oil, it's toxic to life on Earth, that can't be acceptable. 

That must be why God tried to bury it way down deep.

Nah, it used to be plentiful right at the surface. The ancients knew about, and used "oil seeps" where the stuff just oozes out of the surface and forms puddles. Yes those puddles were not healthy, but it made great lamps and lubrication.

Guess what happened to them

- DSK

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19 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Nah, it used to be plentiful right at the surface. The ancients knew about, and used "oil seeps" where the stuff just oozes out of the surface and forms puddles. Yes those puddles were not healthy, but it made great lamps and lubrication.

Guess what happened to them

- DSK

They haven’t all disappeared. There are thousands of active oils seeps today. More than 600 natural seeps in the Gulf of Mexico alone. A well known one off Santa Barbara and of course, the “tar pits” are currently active seeps. 
 

A lot of the tar balls on the Gulf of Oman shores of the UAE and Oman come from natural seeps.

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2 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:
36 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Nah, it used to be plentiful right at the surface. The ancients knew about, and used "oil seeps" where the stuff just oozes out of the surface and forms puddles. Yes those puddles were not healthy, but it made great lamps and lubrication.

Guess what happened to them

 

They haven’t all disappeared. There are thousands of active oils seeps today. More than 600 natural seeps in the Gulf of Mexico alone. A well known one off Santa Barbara and of course, the “tar pits” are currently active seeps. 
 

A lot of the tar balls on the Gulf of Oman shores of the UAE and Oman come from natural seeps.

Well, yeah, but .... ;)

The problem here is that you're well informed and not trying to push a personal agenda! As soon as I hit 'send' I expected you or CL to object my using the descriptor "plentiful" because oil seeps have always been somewhat rare.

But that's where we first developed the oil habit. It's such a fabulous return on investment that we'd have been really stupid to not follow it up. It's just a shame we hunted whales almost to extinction first.

Now you've kicked up my curiosity, gotta do some reading up on early oil development.

- DSK

 

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On 3/11/2021 at 7:58 AM, Ed Lada said:

No just painful.  I used to put ceiling panels and light fixtures among other things in commuter train cars years ago.  Holding a drill over your head is very tiresome after a short while, I assure you.

They put me on that job because I'm quite tall and I didn't need a ladder to do the job like most other folks, so I could do it faster.  Then to add insult to injury, I also had worked under the car to install the parts for the hand operated parking brake.  The distance from the floor of the shop to the underfloor of the car was 6' and usually less because of all of the other shit hanging under there.  I'm almost 6' 6" tall.

I know a subcontractor who does ceilings, you know, the ubiquitous T metal grids in offices. Cracked me up when all the long drinks of water pulled up in their cars. Shortest guy was about your height, 5-18, and a couple were close to 7 ft. I imagine they had a sign by their door with a line on it.."You must be THIS tall...."  Found out later they recruited at BB camps and the better open hoops ex college players hang out at. Word got around quick in the hoops world of itinerant players, there was a place you could get good pay and all you had to do was let them know how to find you.   

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Working overhead for prolonged periods is just damn hard. No way around it. Tough on shoulders and backs. Low neck and right between the shoulder blades.......

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23 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

They haven’t all disappeared. There are thousands of active oils seeps today. More than 600 natural seeps in the Gulf of Mexico alone. A well known one off Santa Barbara and of course, the “tar pits” are currently active seeps. 
 

A lot of the tar balls on the Gulf of Oman shores of the UAE and Oman come from natural seeps.

As do the tar balls on the beaches of Padre Island. They were described in the journals of the Spanish explorer Cabeza de Baca, the Arawaks used the stuff to seal their canoes. 

My brother was an engineer at Arco who worked on a project to lower a hood with a riser over a natural oil seep in California, they captured about 100 barrels per day. 

23 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, yeah, but .... ;)

The problem here is that you're well informed and not trying to push a personal agenda! As soon as I hit 'send' I expected you or CL to object my using the descriptor "plentiful" because oil seeps have always been somewhat rare.

But that's where we first developed the oil habit. It's such a fabulous return on investment that we'd have been really stupid to not follow it up. It's just a shame we hunted whales almost to extinction first.

Now you've kicked up my curiosity, gotta do some reading up on early oil development.

- DSK

 

You're probably aware that IB and I sail together. It's very relaxing for me to be the dumbass on the boat.

That's another thing we oil guys don't get enough credit for, saving the whales. Well, along with a Confederate commerce raider that hadn't gotten the news that the ciivil war was over, and burned most of the Northern whaling fleet in the Bering sea. 

If oil hadn't been discovered in Pennsylvania by Col. Drake, it would have been economic to rebuild the whaling ships. As it was, Kerosene or "the New Illuminating Oil" was more economic and burned better than whale oil.

Fun fact: The Citgo sign at Fenway? when Cities Service Oil Company was first founded in what is now Oklahoma, it was named "Indian Territory Illuminating Oil Company". Kerosene was the valuable product then. As electric lighting replaced kerosene, the oil companies were pretty happy to have automobiles come along and provide a market for the previously low value distillate, gasoline.

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It all goes in a big circle... the ability to make money off oil led to companies with money to invest in research chemists who discovered a lot of cool stuff, most of which led to greater demand for energy which could easily be supplied by oil....

So, I haven't found any good resources that address why natural oil seeps have not all been exhausted. I'm guessing it's because a lot of them don't produce sufficient volume to be worth developing.

- DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

So, I haven't found any good resources that address why natural oil seeps have not all been exhausted. I'm guessing it's because a lot of them don't produce sufficient volume to be worth developing.

- DSK

I think you nailed it...  Money.

If it wasn't the easy to grasp $ in vs out, then then once the bureaucrats got involved with red tape, it would seem to have closed the door.

Probably even if there would be a net environmental gain by containing the seep. 

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It all goes in a big circle... the ability to make money off oil led to companies with money to invest in research chemists who discovered a lot of cool stuff, most of which led to greater demand for energy which could easily be supplied by oil....

So, I haven't found any good resources that address why natural oil seeps have not all been exhausted. I'm guessing it's because a lot of them don't produce sufficient volume to be worth developing.

- DSK

There's two factors that matter on such things.

First is, as you mentioned, they're usually too diffuse to be profitable.  The Energy Return on Energy Invested is just to low to be valuable (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360544213000492).  Generally, you need an EROI of > 7 to be commercially profitable but anything over 0.7 (I see you ethanol!) will make money with enough government subsidies.  There's energy there but it's not worth the effort setting up a collection infrastructure, particularly if it's in salt water.  Even energy dense areas like Darfur with lots of existing infrastructure rarely get over that hurdle for small natural leaks, even continuous ones. 

The second is that refineries are really giant chemistry sets.  The type of oil you feed in matters for yield and maintenance and what might be in 'Joe's random batch of oil' makes it essentially unrefinable in the West.  Its not worth the cost to assay.  No refinery operator is going to take the liability that there's some arsenic or other heavy metal in there (that's going to become THEIR disposal issue) without assurances that there's a LOT of the feed stock to make it worth while.  And seeps of natural crude probably aren't going to do it.

There ARE micro-refineries and refineries in minimally regulated countries where this stuff can get processed but that has its own legacy issues.  Usually, 'dubious' crude ends up as bunker oil since you can burn it in international waters with minimal over site. 

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

So, I haven't found any good resources that address why natural oil seeps have not all been exhausted. I'm guessing it's because a lot of them don't produce sufficient volume to be worth developing.

- DSK

Are natural oil seeps considered pollution?

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7 minutes ago, floating dutchman said:

Are natural oil seeps considered pollution?

Well, in the old days the people who made money off them wanted to keep them secret, and local gov't wanted to publish their location so that farmers would not try to till or graze adjacent fields because of the toxicity. For example, the area in Pennsylvania where the first successful wells were drilled... earlier in history, they were widely publicized as good places for farmers to avoid.

That was probably before people invented the concept of "pollution" because in the eternal struggle of Man Vs Nature, Nature was still winning by a wide margin and natural resources seemed infinite.

 

11 minutes ago, BeSafe said:
3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

...  address why natural oil seeps have not all been exhausted. I'm guessing it's because a lot of them don't produce sufficient volume to be worth developing.

 

There's two factors that matter on such things.

First is, as you mentioned, they're usually too diffuse to be profitable.  The Energy Return on Energy Invested is just to low to be valuable (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360544213000492).  Generally, you need an EROI of > 7 to be commercially profitable but anything over 0.7 (I see you ethanol!) will make money with enough government subsidies.  There's energy there but it's not worth the effort setting up a collection infrastructure, particularly if it's in salt water.  Even energy dense areas like Darfur with lots of existing infrastructure rarely get over that hurdle for small natural leaks, even continuous ones. 

The second is that refineries are really giant chemistry sets.  The type of oil you feed in matters for yield and maintenance and what might be in 'Joe's random batch of oil' makes it essentially unrefinable in the West.  Its not worth the cost to assay.  No refinery operator is going to take the liability that there's some arsenic or other heavy metal in there (that's going to become THEIR disposal issue) without assurances that there's a LOT of the feed stock to make it worth while.  And seeps of natural crude probably aren't going to do it.

There ARE micro-refineries and refineries in minimally regulated countries where this stuff can get processed but that has its own legacy issues.  Usually, 'dubious' crude ends up as bunker oil since you can burn it in international waters with minimal over site. 

Excellent, thanks. A cracking column isn't that hard to build or run; makes me wonder if there's a business opening for "artisan" micro refineries! Of course, really precise instrumentation/control are what makes it able to produce the best products, so even a small one is liable to cost a bit more than, say, a modest racing sailboat.

- DSK

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26 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, in the old days the people who made money off them wanted to keep them secret, and local gov't wanted to publish their location so that farmers would not try to till or graze adjacent fields because of the toxicity. For example, the area in Pennsylvania where the first successful wells were drilled... earlier in history, they were widely publicized as good places for farmers to avoid.

That was probably before people invented the concept of "pollution" because in the eternal struggle of Man Vs Nature, Nature was still winning by a wide margin and natural resources seemed infinite.

 

Excellent, thanks. A cracking column isn't that hard to build or run; makes me wonder if there's a business opening for "artisan" micro refineries! Of course, really precise instrumentation/control are what makes it able to produce the best products, so even a small one is liable to cost a bit more than, say, a modest racing sailboat.

- DSK

I love it, artisanal oil!  The hipsters will be all over it.  

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50 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, in the old days the people who made money off them wanted to keep them secret, and local gov't wanted to publish their location so that farmers would not try to till or graze adjacent fields because of the toxicity. For example, the area in Pennsylvania where the first successful wells were drilled... earlier in history, they were widely publicized as good places for farmers to avoid.

That was probably before people invented the concept of "pollution" because in the eternal struggle of Man Vs Nature, Nature was still winning by a wide margin and natural resources seemed infinite.

 

Excellent, thanks. A cracking column isn't that hard to build or run; makes me wonder if there's a business opening for "artisan" micro refineries! Of course, really precise instrumentation/control are what makes it able to produce the best products, so even a small one is liable to cost a bit more than, say, a modest racing sailboat.

- DSK

A cracking column isn't hard to build or run? Don't you mean a column for fractional distillation?

Hydrocracking is a far, far different beast. Amateurs shouldn't be playing with hydrogen feeds unless they understand hydrogen stress cracking.

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4 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

If oil hadn't been discovered in Pennsylvania by Col. Drake, it would have been economic to rebuild the whaling ships. As it was, Kerosene or "the New Illuminating Oil" was more economic and burned better than whale oil.

I'm a PA native and grew up not terribly far from Titusville, I've been down that way many times and I've been to Drake's well.  

My father was a watchmaker and for most of his career he used whale oil to lubricate watches he had repaired.  As a matter of fact, I still have about half of a small bottle of it from his watchmaker's bench that I now have.  Synthetic oil for watches has been around for years now and is better than whale oil for that purpose.  The upside is that a normal size drop is enough to lubricate many average sized watches, so a gallon would lubricate a metric shit ton of watches.  I doubt my father used more than a few ounces in his 55 years of watch repairing.

There is a lot of interesting information in this thread.

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

A cracking column isn't hard to build or run? Don't you mean a column for fractional distillation?

Hydrocracking is a far, far different beast. Amateurs shouldn't be playing with hydrogen feeds unless they understand hydrogen stress cracking.

That's right, fractional distilling. Used to be very common in various industrial applications, less so now with so many processes using water based materials.

I have no idea about hydrocracking, other than hoping my neighbors don't decide to try it next in their quest to get rid of voles.

- DSK

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41 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

That's right, fractional distilling. Used to be very common in various industrial applications, less so now with so many processes using water based materials.

I have no idea about hydrocracking, other than hoping my neighbors don't decide to try it next in their quest to get rid of voles.

- DSK

We had a vole problem.  The cats took care of it.  I think they took the Godfather approach.   I found little vole heads around the deck for about a month and then the problem was over. 

Depending on the cat, it's usually a little safer than messing with hydrogen.

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52 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

We had a vole problem.  The cats took care of it.  I think they took the Godfather approach.   I found little vole heads around the deck for about a month and then the problem was over. 

Depending on the cat, it's usually a little safer than messing with hydrogen.

We've had feral cats come & go in the neighborhood. They don't seem to be interested in voles, and frankly IMHO they're a bigger problem. I like to walk in my yard and when vole tunnels appear, I just mash 'em back down again. Seems to discourage them. Those of my neighbors that are most upset about them seem to admire their lawn from the window but never go outside unless it's to do something with loud yard-care tools.

- DSK

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Excellent, thanks. A cracking column isn't that hard to build or run; makes me wonder if there's a business opening for "artisan" micro refineries! Of course, really precise instrumentation/control are what makes it able to produce the best products, so even a small one is liable to cost a bit more than, say, a modest racing sailboat.

- DSK

I know some of the easy coast refineries (particular Pennsylvania) have wandered that way, customizing processing some of the stuff that comes out of Marcellus.  Its very niche and there is even some work on recombinatory chemistry (think Fisher-Trophsch) to make higher hydrocarbons like Isobutane.    There's some other custom work to make precursor chemicals for plastic manufacturing.

Its mostly regulatory controlled.  I not sure there's been a 'new' refinery built in the US in 50 years - basically, it's expanding / repurposing old properties and going from there.  I'm sure there's one somewhere but they're pretty uncommon.  It's a bit like 'grandpa's hammer' - if you replace the head and then 10 years later replace the shaft, is it still grandpa's hammer?  Uh.. maybe?  But that's how entrepreneurs get around BANANA laws.

 

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8 hours ago, BeSafe said:

I know some of the easy coast refineries (particular Pennsylvania) have wandered that way, customizing processing some of the stuff that comes out of Marcellus. 

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