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I had a survey done today on a boat I am looking to buy (Catalina 34), and one of the findings was that the steering wheel was turning without play, all the way to the correct position both sides, but it had a lot of friction, sort of hard to turn. The surveyor couldn't tell me the root cause of this problem, and only said the aft lazarette was full of junk, he couldn't inspect it properly, but something there might be hitting the cables. 

My question to you is this - I am at the position I can renegotiate the price based on the findings. Since I don't know what this could be, how much would you assign to this problem, assuming it could be anything related to the cables, sheaves, etc? What are some common causes to this problem?

 

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9 minutes ago, Migus said:

 The surveyor couldn't tell me the root cause of this problem, and only said the aft lazarette was full of junk, he couldn't inspect it properly, but something there might be hitting the cables. 

what?

sounds like a bad way to start a purchase

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17 minutes ago, Migus said:

I had a survey done today on a boat I am looking to buy (Catalina 34), and one of the findings was that the steering wheel was turning without play, all the way to the correct position both sides, but it had a lot of friction, sort of hard to turn. The surveyor couldn't tell me the root cause of this problem, and only said the aft lazarette was full of junk, he couldn't inspect it properly, but something there might be hitting the cables. 

My question to you is this - I am at the position I can renegotiate the price based on the findings. Since I don't know what this could be, how much would you assign to this problem, assuming it could be anything related to the cables, sheaves, etc? What are some common causes to this problem?

 

how about:

without a full survey, i walk away... (or the boat is so cheap that you shouldn't care...)

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don't buy unless 1) you figure it out or 2) you drop the price by the amount to buy/install a new rudder, bearings, quadrant, sheaves, cable and binacle. Cause it could be any of that.

 

Rudder is swollen or jammed into the hull

bearings are full of barnacles or otherwise fubar'd

the quadrant is fucked with

the cable pulleys are seized

the center hub of the binacle is seized

At least you won't have to replace the wheel

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24 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

My Any competent surveyor would have emptied the lazarette to see what the fuck was going on.

FTFY

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One year when I was sailing from the canal to boston, I heard a boat I knew radioing the coast guard that they couldn't turn their steering wheel. The CG wanted them to drop their sails and wait for a boat to come on scene, but the skipper said, "well, I'm aimed basically at plymouth, so I'm going to keep going that way. When I get closer, I'll let you know." About an hour later, he radio'd the CG again and said he'd fixed the problem, which was something in his lazarette that had gotten jammed in the quadrant.

Imagine how much easier it is to do that with the boat on land.

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17 minutes ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Runaway 

And if the surveyor has the temerity to send you a bill, tell him to knock at least 50% off for incompetence.

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20 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

And if the surveyor has the temerity to send you a bill, tell him to knock at least 50% off for incompetence.

Aw, c'mon, the "surveyor" did turn the wheel all the way in both directions and it was hard to do, too! (Here endeth the sarcasm.)

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3 hours ago, Ishmael said:

My surveyors would have emptied the lazarette to see what the fuck was going on.

yea exactly, why pay someone who cant give you the answer you are looking for??

 

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2 hours ago, Benytoe said:

yea exactly, why pay someone who cant give you the answer you are looking for??

 

I can look at it myself for free. Why do I need some dimwit to stand there and look with me?

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10 hours ago, Migus said:

I had a survey done today on a boat I am looking to buy (Catalina 34), and one of the findings was that the steering wheel was turning without play, all the way to the correct position both sides, but it had a lot of friction, sort of hard to turn. The surveyor couldn't tell me the root cause of this problem, and only said the aft lazarette was full of junk, he couldn't inspect it properly, but something there might be hitting the cables. 

My question to you is this - I am at the position I can renegotiate the price based on the findings. Since I don't know what this could be, how much would you assign to this problem, assuming it could be anything related to the cables, sheaves, etc? What are some common causes to this problem?

 

Sounds like the rudder bearing is shot 

assume the worst 

ask the shipyard for an estimate , then use this estimate to reduce the purchase price 

when a surveyor can not inspect a system its considered  a fail

boats are full of these “ fails “ 

chainplates are typical fails on small craft 

when you sell your boat avoid this list of fails by emptying the boat of personal gear and exposing all systems for survey inspection 

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5 hours ago, Controversial_posts said:

Usually because the bank and insurance companies require a survey.

And back when I was selling boats banks and insurance companies sometimes had a list of approved surveyors.  

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Great answers - so really 2 things that can ruin your day - keel falling off, losing rudder/steerage. The 1st is catastrophic as you might die, the 2nd just means it might take longer. 

The most common reason for Seatow that I have seen is rudder failure. If it's still in the boat likely stuck to one side so only going round in circles. If not still in/on the boat likely going down.

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Cat 34 has a sleeved tube, not a bearing. There is a carrier bearing at the top that holds the rudder shaft can fail but easy to see by pulling the emergency rudder cover off. I assume this was an out of the water “survey” and any growth, slop in the tube physical problem with interference out of the water was checked. 
 

That leaves a few things starting with emptying the lazerrette. 

under deck AP?  Disconnect the actuator and see if that eases it. 

quadrant rides on a gland. Is it physically ok?

Catalina steering is easy and simple  No expensive Jeff’s bearings to fail, etc  they tend to be slightly sloppy in comparison to a more performance oriented boat.  Only one I have seen fucked was run aground on hard sand and bent the shaft  That was a problem for the owner  


remove the compass from the binnacle and confirm the starting lock is released and free that can corrode if left engaged for a long period  

If those are good, you are into the cable sheaves and bearings on the pedestal. you will need to remove the cables from the quadrant to see if it is a rudder or steering g system issue. if you find worn parts and the rest, Will Keene at Edson used to be very helpful in spacing out what to replace or where to look once you have done the homework. 
 

Edson pedestals are robust but eventually need to be maintained. Parts are not cheap so you choice it to tell the buyer to fix it prior to closing or walk unless you are absolutely certain that you know what is wrong g and the full cost of repairs. 
 

Hopefully the surveyor at least listed the steering as a fail that must be corrected. 

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Could be any number of things.

Could be rudder bearings are stiff.

Could be that the wheel axel bearings are stiff.

Could be that the sheaves the steering cables turn on are stiff.

Could be you have cables in conduits are stiff.

Could be that the cables are adjusted to tight.

First thing I would do right after you clear out the lazzarette, is to disconnect the steering cables from the quadrant. then check to see if the rudder is easy to move and that there is little to no play in those bearings.

Second thing I would do is access the pedestal by removing the compass/binnacle. Slip the chain off its sprocket and see if the wheel turns freely and check for play in the wheel axel.

Third thing to do is check all the sheaves in the system and see that they turn easily and are not worn.

Last thing, if the cables are in conduits, is to see if the cable moves freely in the conduit. In my experience they are usually ignored and the grease has solidified causing binding.

Now that you have it dis-assembled, clean and lube everything and reassemble.

Edson website has videos on this stuff. You should watch them.

As for negotiating the price. You can do that too. But it is a guess as to what amount to ask for off the sale price. Thousand bucks maybe to cover what could be wrong. You will not know until you disassemble the system.

 

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19 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Cat 34 has a sleeved tube, not a bearing. There is a carrier bearing at the top that holds the rudder shaft can fail but easy to see by pulling the emergency rudder cover off. I assume this was an out of the water “survey” and any growth, slop in the tube physical problem with interference out of the water was checked. 
 

That leaves a few things starting with emptying the lazerrette. 

under deck AP?  Disconnect the actuator and see if that eases it. 

quadrant rides on a gland. Is it physically ok?

Catalina steering is easy and simple  No expensive Jeff’s bearings to fail, etc  they tend to be slightly sloppy in comparison to a more performance oriented boat.  Only one I have seen fucked was run aground on hard sand and bent the shaft  That was a problem for the owner  


remove the compass from the binnacle and confirm the starting lock is released and free that can corrode if left engaged for a long period  

If those are good, you are into the cable sheaves and bearings on the pedestal. you will need to remove the cables from the quadrant to see if it is a rudder or steering g system issue. if you find worn parts and the rest, Will Keene at Edson used to be very helpful in spacing out what to replace or where to look once you have done the homework. 
 

Edson pedestals are robust but eventually need to be maintained. Parts are not cheap so you choice it to tell the buyer to fix it prior to closing or walk unless you are absolutely certain that you know what is wrong g and the full cost of repairs. 
 

Hopefully the surveyor at least listed the steering as a fail that must be corrected. 

I'll add the wheel shaft bearings to this list. That's the short one that attaches directly to the back of your wheel, has a chain sprocket, and sits horizontally at the top of your pedestal. People chronically forget to lube the bearings and it can be a significant source of friction. Edson puts a couple of lube holes, one per bearing, in there. Just get a needle attachment for your grease gun and squirt it in there while exercising the wheel lock to lock until you see grease come out of the bearings. 

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2 minutes ago, IStream said:

I'll add the wheel shaft bearings to this list. That's the short one that attaches directly to the back of your wheel, has a chain sprocket, and sits horizontally at the top of your pedestal. People chronically forget to lube the bearings and it can be a significant source of friction. Edson puts a couple of lube holes, one per bearing, in there. Just get a needle attachment for your grease gun and squirt it in there while exercising the wheel lock to lock until you see grease come out of the bearings. 

Agree. That’s  part of the pedestal inspection and maintenance in my mind. Remove the cables and it will be pretty easy to isolate the problem. Could just be “junk in the truck” as well. 

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Not directly related to your steering issue, but I hate that rudder tube design on the 34. That thing started working loose on us 30 miles from shore and the rudder was noticeably flopping side to side on every wave. If you stuck your head in the lazerette, you could see the tube deflecting about an inch each way with the waves. We added a LOT of reinforcement after that. 

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3 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

No expensive Jeff’s bearings to fail, etc  the [Cat 34 setup] tends to be slightly sloppy in comparison to a more performance oriented boat.  

That's Jefa self aligning bearings and they are expensive but are lower friction from the get-go, last much longer than fixed bearings and are standard on any performance oriented boat for those reasons.  Shafts invariably bend a bit under load so contemplate this diagram:

bending_of_shaft.gif.b9e3e0a6a12acce2b201e8106b7a11b4.gif

 

:  

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3 minutes ago, IStream said:

Thanks to the PO, I've got Jefas (and a bunch of structural reinforcement) and they're fantastic.

Yup,  been on some factory racers with cheap fixed bearings on a balanced spade rudder and they worked fine except when power reaching under kite where they became a handful.  Turns out the rudder shaft bend was binding the bearings and when replaced with Jefa bearings the power reaching helm became silky smooth fingertip controllable.

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1 hour ago, axolotl said:

Yup,  been on some factory racers with cheap fixed bearings on a balanced spade rudder and they worked fine except when power reaching under kite where they became a handful.  Turns out the rudder shaft bend was binding the bearings and when replaced with Jefa bearings the power reaching helm became silky smooth fingertip controllable.

No doubt they are sweet but hardly worth the cost to refit on $30-40k older Cat 34 unless you are already into a major rudder replacement. Just the bearings and sleeves will run almost $4K USD. Add in new tubes, structural work and I’m guessing 12k minimum plus a new rudder if you need/one.

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23 hours ago, Migus said:

I had a survey done today on a boat I am looking to buy (Catalina 34), and one of the findings was that the steering wheel was turning without play, all the way to the correct position both sides, but it had a lot of friction, sort of hard to turn. The surveyor couldn't tell me the root cause of this problem, and only said the aft lazarette was full of junk, he couldn't inspect it properly, but something there might be hitting the cables. 

My question to you is this - I am at the position I can renegotiate the price based on the findings. Since I don't know what this could be, how much would you assign to this problem, assuming it could be anything related to the cables, sheaves, etc? What are some common causes to this problem?

 

If the shaft is bent you should be able to tell by simply watching it as you move the wheel when its out of the water. Does the rudder rotate around the vertical axis (rudder shaft) without the tip moving?

And get yourself a new surveyor, what a lazy piece of shit. As d'ranger said, there are a couple of things that are critical to keeping you alive, the rudder and steering is near the top of that list.     

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2 hours ago, axolotl said:

Yup,  been on some factory racers with cheap fixed bearings on a balanced spade rudder and they worked fine except when power reaching under kite where they became a handful.  Turns out the rudder shaft bend was binding the bearings and when replaced with Jefa bearings the power reaching helm became silky smooth fingertip controllable.

I used to sail an old half tonner that did that. Usually as you bore off down a big wave. How we used to laugh.

Surveyor sending reports like that needs a kick in the nuts.

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20 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

No doubt they are sweet but hardly worth the cost to refit on $30-40k older Cat 34 unless you are already into a major rudder replacement. Just the bearings and sleeves will run almost $4K USD. Add in new tubes, structural work and I’m guessing 12k minimum plus a new rudder if you need/one.

I knew they were expensive, but 12k minimum seems kinda high.  I'm wildly guessing the rudder shaft on a Cat 34 is about 3  inches.  From the Jefa pricelist:

  • SELF-ALIGNING PETP ROLLER BEARINGS TYPE 6BF:   30 to 95 mm PETP self-aligning bearing Ø140 mm outside diameter 326eros

  • 140 mm Ø aluminium tube l=1000 mm 118eros

So that's about $650 for the bearings and $120 for the tube., about $800.  Hard to believe 11k worth of yard time & materials would be required to modify the boat & install Jefa bearings.

A friend with a Beneteau 40.7 switched out the stock bearings for Jefa self aligning bearings (2011):

  • S-A Bearing 110mm, First 40,7 € 404,00
  • "A special new type of roller bearing has been developed with exactly the same outer dimensions as the French made gliding bearings that have been used up until now.  The bearing housing will not have to be removed from the hull. When the rudder shaft is dropped out, the exchange is a matter of minutes."

So that's $800 or so for the bearings  and a day's haulout cost, for Jefa bearings installed.  BTW, here's the difference between glide bearings and Jefa self aligning bearings:

glide.jpg.9e99f163398b5025005f3091b6a568fc.jpgglide2.jpg.82d598f8cee2b42f77cd24b0a0f801c4.jpgjefa.thumb.jpg.b39b403b0adad1729416a82bc64d2e3c.jpg

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1 hour ago, axolotl said:

I knew they were expensive, but 12k minimum seems kinda high.  I'm wildly guessing the rudder shaft on a Cat 34 is about 3  inches.  From the Jefa pricelist:

  • SELF-ALIGNING PETP ROLLER BEARINGS TYPE 6BF:   30 to 95 mm PETP self-aligning bearing Ø140 mm outside diameter 326eros

  • 140 mm Ø aluminium tube l=1000 mm 118eros

So that's about $650 for the bearings and $120 for the tube., about $800.  Hard to believe 11k worth of yard time & materials would be required to modify the boat & install Jefa bearings.

A friend with a Beneteau 40.7 switched out the stock bearings for Jefa self aligning bearings (2011):

  • S-A Bearing 110mm, First 40,7 € 404,00
  • "A special new type of roller bearing has been developed with exactly the same outer dimensions as the French made gliding bearings that have been used up until now.  The bearing housing will not have to be removed from the hull. When the rudder shaft is dropped out, the exchange is a matter of minutes."

So that's $800 or so for the bearings  and a day's haulout cost, for Jefa bearings installed.  BTW, here's the difference between glide bearings and Jefa self aligning bearings:

glide.jpg.9e99f163398b5025005f3091b6a568fc.jpgglide2.jpg.82d598f8cee2b42f77cd24b0a0f801c4.jpgjefa.thumb.jpg.b39b403b0adad1729416a82bc64d2e3c.jpg

It might cost ten grand to fit a new lower bearing 

depends on the boat, rudder  and bearing type

a major cost is the  repeated lifting

1 lift to  haul out and block the boat 

2nd lift boat to remove rudder 

3rd lift boat to install the bearing fit  on rudder stock 

4th lift  boat to finish up 

5th lift boat to launch 

a self aligning bearing can  be seated without the rudder stock as a guide 

it will be cheaper because fewer lifts 

a non aligning bearing must use  the rudder stock as a guide 

some shipyards have special pits dug into the  boatyard hardtop to permit rudder removal and avoid lift fees 

 

 

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1st lift, haul and block boat up high enough to get rudder out.

Fix shit.

2nd lift, boat to launch.

Foresight is an amazing thing.

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there's no real way to check the quadrant on a cat 34 from the small ass laz on the starboard side...unless you're a small body contortionist....but  remove the q berth bulkhead aft (not structural ....and you'll be right at  the quadrant and can see if things are bunged up...

 

 

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Guys, thank you so much for your replies. Today I drove 3 hours to the boat and the seller and I tried yo troubleshoot.

We removed the compass ans the chain looks good, lubricated. From behid the aft berth I can see all the sheaves and quadrant, and all look good. 

On top of the quadrant, there is a fiberglass tube going up to the deck, where the emergency tiller head is. That tube is touching the quadrant and, turning the wheel, you can hear the sound from there. 

What is that tube? It appears to me it should be a few inches away from the quadrant. If I am right, how can i fix that?

Thanks!

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I wonder if the quadrant  slid up the rudder post a bit until it met the fiberglass tube above. Any photos of the quadrant/rudder post/tube in question?

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Make sure that there have been no bricks that have worked loose from the hull and fallen into the steering quadrant or on top of the cables creating friction in the system. I did a survey on this boat and that was the problem.

Coolboats to admire - Page 44 - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

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No excuse for not emptying a locker, though might draw the line and removing dinghies that have been shoehorned into lockers.  Can always offer to revisit after the lockers have been opened up.  You can see quite a lot with a camera poked around corners, under boards or under the cockpit sole.  I can’t remember the set up on the Catalina, the only one that I looked at on the other side of the pond required a major keel area rebuild which was extremely light, but acetal bearings can tighten up.

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40 minutes ago, IStream said:

I wonder if the quadrant  slid up the rudder post a bit until it met the fiberglass tube above. Any photos of the quadrant/rudder post/tube in question?

Quadrant should be through drilled and bolted to the shaft. Usually, it has a small gap to upper portion of the tube. When you remove the plate to access the tiller head, are the rollers setting on the wear plate?  If it’s riding high, it would be important to understand why.  

The setup isn’t too complicated (actually about as simple as it could be).  As discussed earlier, there are lots of more elegant ways to do it with self aligning bearings and the like but the Catalina is very basic. The only complication is a packing gland shown here https://www.c34.org/faq-pages/techdata-rudder-packing-gland.html.  If that is overnight or just completely dried out, that could cause a stiff rudder. 
 

One other thing to try is to contact the C34 owners Association. (www.C34.org). I’m sure someone has dealt with this before. 

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1 hour ago, Migus said:

Guys, thank you so much for your replies. Today I drove 3 hours to the boat and the seller and I tried yo troubleshoot.

We removed the compass ans the chain looks good, lubricated. From behid the aft berth I can see all the sheaves and quadrant, and all look good. 

On top of the quadrant, there is a fiberglass tube going up to the deck, where the emergency tiller head is. That tube is touching the quadrant and, turning the wheel, you can hear the sound from there. 

What is that tube? It appears to me it should be a few inches away from the quadrant. If I am right, how can i fix that?

Thanks!

have you tried calling this number?

 

Catalina Yachts

21200 Victory Boulevard
Woodland Hills, CA 91367
Phone: 818.884.7700

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On 3/7/2021 at 4:10 PM, dacapo said:

there's no real way to check the quadrant on a cat 34 from the small ass laz on the starboard side...unless you're a small body contortionist....but  remove the q berth bulkhead aft (not structural ....and you'll be right at  the quadrant and can see if things are bunged up...

 

 

That’s not entirely true. I’m 6’2” and 200 pounds, so not a little guy. When we thought we were about to have a very serious problem, I found a way to fit myself in that damned lazerette. Desperation does wonders when it comes to accessing bits on boats. 
 

Rudder aside, I loved that boat. It was an absolute PHRF monster on distance races. 
 

EDIT:  I should clarify, we had a new high aspect rudder, so it was obviously stressed a bit more. Catalina said it was fine though. 

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

That’s not entirely true. I’m 6’2” and 200 pounds, so not a little guy. When we thought we were about to have a very serious problem, I found a way to fit myself in that damned lazerette. Desperation does wonders when it comes to accessing bits on boats. 
 

Rudder aside, I loved that boat. It was an absolute PHRF monster on distance races. 
 

EDIT:  I should clarify, we had a new high aspect rudder, so it was obviously stressed a bit more. Catalina said it was fine though. 

ok....getting in was easier than getting one's self out ;-)...it was easier to remove the q berth bulkhead, remove the water tank and work on the quadrant and AC like a normal human ;-)

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14 minutes ago, Migus said:

20210308_144437.jpg

so it seems there are only two possibilities here. Either the fiberglass tube has fallen or the rudder (or quadrant) has moved up. It could be an optical illusion but it doesn't look like that cable is properly aligned with the quadrant. Can you reach that tube to see if it moves at all? how does all this look from outside? I'd definitely want to be absolutely sure before I put the boat in the water. if you look below the quadrant, can you see any indication that it sat lower on the shaft? is it possible that something in the lazarette lodged under the quadrant and caused it to wedge up over time?

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5 minutes ago, ryley said:

so it seems there are only two possibilities here. Either the fiberglass tube has fallen or the rudder (or quadrant) has moved up. It could be an optical illusion but it doesn't look like that cable is properly aligned with the quadrant. Can you reach that tube to see if it moves at all? how does all this look from outside? I'd definitely want to be absolutely sure before I put the boat in the water. if you look below the quadrant, can you see any indication that it sat lower on the shaft? is it possible that something in the lazarette lodged under the quadrant and caused it to wedge up over time?

looking at the bottom edge of the quadrant there are a series of nicks which are consistent with the cable running over the bottom edge rather that running in cleanly. The top edge appears to have a nice radius. This would be consistent with the quadrant sitting a little high. If you feel along that lower edge (right side in image) how rough is it?

image.png.9c235ad66552c978860e4c864720653e.png

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13 minutes ago, ryley said:

so it seems there are only two possibilities here. Either the fiberglass tube has fallen or the rudder (or quadrant) has moved up. It could be an optical illusion but it doesn't look like that cable is properly aligned with the quadrant. Can you reach that tube to see if it moves at all? how does all this look from outside? I'd definitely want to be absolutely sure before I put the boat in the water. if you look below the quadrant, can you see any indication that it sat lower on the shaft? is it possible that something in the lazarette lodged under the quadrant and caused it to wedge up over time?

Movement in the tube is easy to spot. Stick your head down the lazerette and have someone push side to side on the rudder. I doubt that’s the case in your scenario though. Steering remained quite light when that tube let go on us. 

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31 minutes ago, dacapo said:

ok....getting in was easier than getting one's self out ;-)...it was easier to remove the q berth bulkhead, remove the water tank and work on the quadrant and AC like a normal human ;-)

I’m in a agreement with you. I had to go in head first and get pulled back out by my legs. It was about as unpleasant as it gets. It isn’t friendly to access, and I’m still impressed I could bend the way I had to!  Thankfully, the Coast Guard showed up to escort us the last twenty miles home. I quit worrying at that point, went below, and had a few beers. 

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Quadrant is bolted thru rudder shaft, it cannot move. Other options: entire rudder is sitting higher in the tube than before. There are various ways to hold the rudder in the right vertical position. Some builder's will have a plastic 'washer' between top of rudder blade & hull. Check top of rudder shaft at deck level - is there a gap under whatever holds the shaft? Fiberglass tube in your pic (coming down from deck) is not coated with gel coat - could it have been repaired? The 'floor' panel it comes thru - why is it not glassed to that floor?

Look carefully at the quadrant where the cables enter the groove- they should NOT rub the flange. If they are rubbing the lower flange, that is an indicator that the rudder has moved up.

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So I had to replaced my Cat 30 rudder after hitting storm damage pier debris .  Before that my cable tubes were misaligned with the quadrant from the factory. It took 15 years to saw through the guides on the cable tubes. If that Edson has the “Easy glide cable tubes “ and not sheeves at the pedestal I would check there.  I wish I had installed new sheeves at the bottom the pedestal instead of new cable tubes and ends.
The plastic spacer/ bearing on top of the old  rudder was completely worm out allowing the rudder to ride up against the hull. Also under the emergency tiller head is a plastic washer/ bearing if that was worn your rudder would sit lower not higher, but if someone installed a thicker one  that could raise the rudder.

As a side note Catalina rudder sleeves are know to wear and the rudder becomes sloppy. I cut up Mylar strips and slide them down  from the top into mine to take up the slop. It works great .
Another option here is that the quadrant was installed from the factory too high. A distinct possibility. 
also again check for bent rudder shaft. A new rudder would be a lot. I had Ruddercraaft make me a new one as a stock one was 4-6 months out. The new rudder is CNBC shaped to NACA foil specs and it is way faster than stock.

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Also I am not sure about c34 rudder stuffing box but the C30 are notorious for breaking loose from the lower post due to the above mentioned slop that develops. So the whole stuffing box would rotate inside the lower tube. I repaired my several times finally got it fixed. If it is loose you will get water into the boat when  the boats aquas while powering.  The rudder tube is above water line at rest or sailing,  but not  while motoring. It took me a while to find this.

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2 hours ago, tweaker said:

So I had to replaced my Cat 30 rudder after hitting storm damage pier debris .

That sounds like a lawyerly way of saying you smacked the dock hard on a windy day. :ph34r:

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After spending lots of hours trying to figure this issue out, the seller called Catalina and they indicated the problem might be with the washer that sits right under the emergency tiller head. Sure enough, the seller propped the rudder up, removed the head and the washer had a groove dug into it, after years of moving. He flipped it over, so the smooth side was down, and the whole system now turns effortlessly. 

Thank you all for your input! I think this was the only snag from the survey, which was scaring me, and now I feel good about moving forward and likely owning my first 'larger' sailboat very soon! :)

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On 3/8/2021 at 10:48 PM, SloopJonB said:

That sounds like a lawyerly way of saying you smacked the dock hard on a windy day. :ph34r:

Wow ! You don know me what a thing to say. I have around 50,000 NM of ocean racing and yacht delivery experience. So Actually I was at Catalina moored at Howlands landing when a huge swell hit. I can’t remember what caused it I think a hurricane down near Cabo. The harbor patrol moored near me moved his boat farther out and didn’t tell me a big swell was coming. I came back to my boat bobbing pretty good in a big swell. It was ok. Earlier in the day I went for a drive on inland Catalina with a fellow Geologist of my daughter who was project managing a new well for the West end due to a water shortage. We went all the way SE to the quarry where up on the cliffs we saw large waves hitting the Island. Those waves destroyed the boatyard and also the pier at  Long Point. I

My boat was protected  at Howslands Landing so it was ok. The next day I left very early in the morning on my C-30 by myself to sail back to San Diego. About an 80 NM trip. I was heading SE and after passing long point,  believe I hit a submerged pilling from the damaged pier as I entered the debris field. I didn’t see it soon enough as the sun was directly in my eyes. That object hit my bow and seemed to deflect under the boat and then hit my rudder bending it. I assessed the damage and decided to continue home with a very stiff rudder. In hindsight that decision worked out fine. The boatyard in Catalina was wrecked. I could have gone E to Newport Beach @30 NM but SD was directly DW and the weather was good.

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3 hours ago, Migus said:

After spending lots of hours trying to figure this issue out, the seller called Catalina and they indicated the problem might be with the washer that sits right under the emergency tiller head. Sure enough, the seller propped the rudder up, removed the head and the washer had a groove dug into it, after years of moving. He flipped it over, so the smooth side was down, and the whole system now turns effortlessly. 

Thank you all for your input! I think this was the only snag from the survey, which was scaring me, and now I feel good about moving forward and likely owning my first 'larger' sailboat very soon! :)

amazing what calling the manufacturer will do...

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On 3/8/2021 at 4:08 PM, commotion said:

Look for a boat with a tiller !!

True 'dat, especially on smaller boats where a wheel fills up the cockpit and with a tiller it's plenty easy to steer even in big winds.  Best thing is you point the tiller straight up and you have an open cockpit for partyin' in your slip.

My boat has a skeg mounted unbalanced rudder with a FG tube that's bonded to the cockpit seats so there's no need for waterproof seals, etc.  There's a Zerk fitting in the middle of the tube and pumping in waterproof grease every few years 'till it comes out the top and the shoe is the only maintenance.  When I had the purchase survey the surveyor said that setup is absolutely bulletproof and will last longer than I do.  50 years now and no steering problems.  Foss foam built the rudder in vinylester and it's still dry.  Only downside is the rudder is enormous so the boat is 10-20 seconds PHRF slower than its contemporary spade/fin equipped competitors.

boomp.thumb.jpg.f427dff06595aafebb39d66703cb02d6.jpg

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7 hours ago, tweaker said:

Wow ! You don know me what a thing to say. I have around 50,000 NM of ocean racing and yacht delivery experience.

That's as may be but apparently you are lacking a sense of humour.

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5 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

amazing what calling the manufacturer will do...

Great advise. What a great company. It’s very sad that Frank Butler has passed away. Over the years I had the pleasure of having breakfast with him and the other principals at Catalina Yachts during Sail Expo.  Jerry Douglas came down to San Diego to our local All Catalina fleet to talk one time. I hear he retired. A couple of people did mention the washer issue. I am glad l the OP got it resolved. 

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17 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That's as may be but apparently you are lacking a sense of humour.

Maybe. hA . You kinda pissed me off. 

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15 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That's as may be but apparently you are lacking a sense of humour.

it fell overboard when his rudder broke at the dock.

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2 minutes ago, ryley said:

it fell overboard when his rudder broke at the dock.

I hope it did not cause any additional damage as it was floating around, or would a sense of humor sink like a stone?

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